{"id":149921,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149921","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231353a67c86f07db089508cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a6e53ce74b245c9edf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"12:06:32 - 12:16:03","影片長度":"00:09:31","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":571,"end_time":"2024-03-14T12:16:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T12:06:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1466,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（12時6分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長好，今天彰化有一些鄉親到晶鼎焚化爐開發現場抗議，部長您曉不曉得這件事情？"],["薛部長富盛：好像是在今天嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：就是今天，就是此時此刻！這個開發案當初居民是反對的、縣政府也反對，很重要的是在選前，總統府秘書長林佳龍，也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案，但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會硬要興建，請問環境部這件事管還是不管？"],["薛部長富盛：我跟陳委員報告，這個案子事實上是在兩年前就經過那時的環保署的環評。"],["陳委員昭姿：有環評過是不是？"],["薛部長富盛：在2年前環評通過，當初在環評裡面有規定晶鼎綠能公司在動工以前必須召開公聽會。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我知道程序也許完成，但是有一些政治承諾，民眾看到政治承諾，因此部長你是不是請環境部再下去溝通協調？好嗎？我剛剛已經提到了，林佳龍秘書長到彰化承諾政府要停止這個開發案，部長，因為這個案子今天發生，也請你繼續……"],["薛部長富盛：我盡我的力量，但是有些東西是超越我的權限，第一個，我也沒有親自看……"],["陳委員昭姿：就請你去關心，因為今天此時此刻居民正在抗議。好，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長富盛：好，是。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我現在再確認一個事實，中小型廢棄物焚化爐戴奧辛管制及排放標準第七條第一項第五款有講到，既存焚化爐在集塵設備入口的廢氣溫度，規定必須是在攝氏280度以下，新設焚化爐則應要在200度以下。請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的？這是2005年規範的。"],["薛部長富盛：我是不是請我們環管署來回答？"],["陳委員昭姿：好，只要說是不是還是正確的？"],["顏署長旭明：是的。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，OK。這張圖的左邊就是目前環境部空污專責教材的截圖，但是這裡談到的觸媒反應，就是框起來的地方，是寫200度到450度，跟現行法規是有衝突的，跟實務上也有衝突，到底是法規有問題還是教材有問題？我知道工廠鍋爐設置觸媒裝置是有必要的，為了降低空污是絕對必要的，但是裝了要真正有降空污的功能，不能只是裝來應付檢查。我要談的一點是說，部長，觸媒的主要成分跟比例……觸媒研發也不斷在進步，主要成分其實決定了操作的溫度，不同材質的觸媒適合的溫度不一樣……"],["薛部長富盛：是，完全認同。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們早期用的釩系觸媒聽說又增加三百多度到四百度，也不高，也不能低，而目前研發的新的低溫觸媒，可能200度以下就可以，但是面對教材跟規範有所衝突，請問這個部分環境部要不要做處理？"],["薛部長富盛：是。我覺得假如隨著科技的進步，新的觸媒……"],["陳委員昭姿：這個是教材，專責教材，這個跟法規是不符的。"],["薛部長富盛：我覺得應該修改。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那就修改。好，謝謝。","再來，觸媒成分是不是商業機密？我想請教部長，觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密，請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：觸媒當然會是一個商業機密。"],["陳委員昭姿：我知道你過去的主張也是如此，但是我剛剛提到了，因為不斷地研發，會不斷地有新的材質出現，如果連簽核的技術師都不能知道內容，那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確且能有效運作的？如果不讓他知道，那你不是陷簽核技師於不義嗎？不是害他有觸法的嫌疑嗎？因為他不知道真相，他不知道這個內容啊！部長，他們宣稱是商業機密，部長到現在也認為這個是屬於商業機密，我在想有一個方法……其實像藥品也有很多地方都有涉及商業機密，藥品的成分、配方是不是商業機密這都可以討論。是不是可以這樣做，因為技師要去簽核，那可不可以讓技師知道它的成分比例？因為這個影響操作溫度，但是他可以簽守密承諾啊！部長，您覺得是不是可以這樣處理呢？這是陷技師於不義啊，他不知道，他還要去簽核、簽證啊！"],["薛部長富盛：可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我很努力告訴你說，因為不同的觸媒材質，溫度是不一樣的，也許跟著研發而進步，連教材都要改了，何況是技師要瞭解資訊？部長，我知道過去你們的態度都是把這個當作機密，但是機密也是可以另外再處理的，是不是讓專業人員在做這件事情時是在有知的情況下去處理？好嗎？請你研議一下。"],["薛部長富盛：我們來努力看看。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。謝謝部長。","部長，您知道這張是什麼圖嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：這個是光害。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個是依據NASA美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的衛星影像製作的，我跟部長解釋一下，圖中藍色跟黑色的部分表示該區的夜空是相對比較黑暗的，綠色、黃色、紅色部分表示是人造光散發出來的光線。部長，你可以看臺灣西部放大的圖，臺灣西部地區綠色、黃色部分，比起全世界，光害相當嚴重。部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎？我就直接告訴部長……"],["薛部長富盛：跟陳委員報告，剛剛也有委員提到，環境部本身也在研議光害。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，但是我希望部長能夠做得更積極。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：光害對人體健康的影響，對睡眠一定有影響，對視力一定有影響，因為我們身體荷爾蒙的分泌是有生理節奏的，荷爾蒙的分泌也會因為光害而異常，甚至造成小朋友性早熟，都有可能。有很多人在開車，看到遠光燈，都是很大的傷害。"],["薛部長富盛：對，現在遠光燈是LED的。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是現在國內的光污染陳情案每年大概有700件，比起噪音跟其他污染看來比較少，那是因為國人不知道光害也是一個光污染，也不知道可以跟誰陳情。部長，到目前為止，我談的你都接受跟瞭解，這是有一些科學的依據，跟全球的一些規範。現在我們缺乏光污染管制的明確法規，我要談的就是2014年法制局其實有一些專題的研究，2021年監察院曾經發函指出中央缺乏強制性的法規，將會造成稽核人力的浪費，且地方政府想要做一些自治的條例，也無所依循。所以要求儘速將光害防制法提案送審，但是今年1月修正的光污染管理指引卻連行政命令都不是，連這個層次都不是，所以我想知道，對於光害這件事情，環境部的態度是積極的嗎？你管還是不管？"],["薛部長富盛：跟陳委員報告，我們已經修訂了兩版光害管理的指引。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是還在指引的階段，連行政命令都還不及啊，對不對？我再舉例，最新修正的指引當中，對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆，根據國際暗空協會的標準，各級道路路燈色溫應該不要高於3,000K， K數越多表示光害越嚴重，但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮基本上都是採購4,000K到5,000K的LED燈。另外，現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描，這個也沒有納入，所以我想我們是不是要從源頭來處理？","捷克在2002年成立光害防制法，是第一個立法防制光害的國家，南韓跟英國也跟上了，我想再問環境部，你知道我們的連江縣也有光害管制自治條例嗎？您知道嗎？我們管轄的連江縣立這個法，你知道為什麼嗎？是為了保護藍眼淚。我知道這個問題會跨在環保、交通、生態、農業、衛生福利等，但核心議題還是環境保護，所以拜託部長快速研議一些裁罰的標準及比較具體的法規。第一個，請把非可見光納管，因為現在很多工具都在使用。第二個，明定色溫、流明上限跟開關的時間。另外一個是宣導，宣導什麼呢？燈具照地不照天，減少光線的散溢，好嗎？部長，可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：OK。我們朝這方面來努力。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。謝謝部長。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 563.547, \"end\": 563.567, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 563.567, \"end\": 563.627, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 563.627, \"end\": 563.687, \"score\": 0.056}, {\"word\": \"姿\", \"start\": 563.687, \"end\": 563.787, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 563.787, \"end\": 563.807, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,936 --> 00:00:03,977\n謝謝主席有請部長請學部長\n\n2\n00:00:10,391 --> 00:00:34,301\n部長好今天彰化有一些鄉親不少鄉親都這個金鼎焚化爐開發現場做抗議部長您曉不曉得這件事情好像是今天嗎是今天就是此時此刻那這個開發案因為當初居民是反對的縣政府也反對很重要的在選情的時候總統府秘書長林佳龍也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案\n\n3\n00:00:35,501 --> 00:00:47,728\n但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會應要新建請問環境部這件事管還是不管給陳委員報告這個案子事實上是在兩年前\n\n4\n00:00:48,942 --> 00:01:11,264\n就經過環境部那時候環保署的環評環評通過在兩年前當初在環評裡面有規定經營綠能公司他在動工以前必須召開民眾的公聽會就是說因為有一些我知道你的程序也許完成但是有一些政治承諾嘛\n\n5\n00:01:11,604 --> 00:01:18,442\n市民眾會相信這個看到政治承諾那是不是部長你就是請環境部再下去跟這個\n\n6\n00:01:20,233 --> 00:01:42,283\n在在在下去做一個溝通協調嗎好嗎因為最多我剛剛已經提到了齁林佳龍秘書長到帳後承諾政府要停止這個開發案好嗎好部長我就這個案子就因為今天發生我盡我的力量但是有些東西是超越我的前線因為我第一個我也沒有就請你關心好就請因為今天他此時此刻好謝謝部長是\n\n7\n00:01:43,483 --> 00:02:09,895\n市長那我現在在確認一個事實就是說我們目前的那個中小型廢棄物焚化爐帶二型管制及排放的標準當中在第7條第1項第5款有講到既有的焚化爐在居成設備入口的廢棄溫度必須是在規定是在設置280度以下那新設的焚化爐要在200度以下請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的這是2005年規範的我是不是請我們環管署就是說只要說是不是還是正確的是的\n\n8\n00:02:11,656 --> 00:02:15,542\n好OK那下一張那這一個左邊齁這張圖的左邊就是目前的這個環境部客戶專責教材的截圖啦但是這裡談到的那個觸媒反應齁觸媒反應齁在框起來的地方他是寫200度到450度\n\n9\n00:02:43,061 --> 00:02:43,081\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n10\n00:02:58,789 --> 00:02:58,809\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n11\n00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:35,544\n進步新的觸媒這個是教材阿專責教材阿對阿所以這個應該修改那再來齁觸媒成分是不是商業機密我想請教部長觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎\n\n12\n00:03:39,541 --> 00:04:03,677\n當然會是一個商業機密我知道您過去的主張也是如此但是這個是因為它我剛剛提到了會有不斷的研發有不斷的新的材質出現如果連鉛核技術師都不能知道它的內容那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確的而且是能夠有效的這個運作那你這樣做如果不讓他知道那你不是限這個這個\n\n13\n00:04:05,956 --> 00:04:14,392\n所謂的這個設計這個技師這個簽證簽口都是限他於不義之地嗎現在有處罰的嫌疑嗎因為他不知道真相啊不知道這個內容物啊那部長就說\n\n14\n00:04:19,389 --> 00:04:37,927\n這件事情就是說如果有一個方法我在想他們宣稱是商業機密那你部長你到現在也從也認為這個是屬於商業機密是其實這個在藥品很多地方都有談藥品的成分配方的是不是商業機密這可以討論那是不是可以這樣因為技師要去核發嘛核簽嘛\n\n15\n00:04:38,968 --> 00:05:01,594\n那可不可以讓技師知道他的成分比例因為這個影響他的操作溫度嘛那但是他可以簽索密承諾啊部長您覺得是不是可以要處理呢我個人覺得基本上我可以限這個技師於不義啊他不知道啊他還要去簽合啊簽證啊可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的不管是\n\n16\n00:05:02,014 --> 00:05:02,134\n下一張謝謝部長\n\n17\n00:05:31,496 --> 00:05:32,298\n您知道這張是什麼圖嗎?\n\n18\n00:05:34,361 --> 00:06:01,295\n這個PM2.5這是光海這個是美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的那個衛星影像製作的那我跟部長解釋一下藍色跟黑色表示就是該去的夜空是比較相對黑暗那綠色黃色紅色是表示是就是有人造的光散發出來的一個光線部長你可以看到台灣的西部那個放大的圖台灣的西部地區綠色黃色部分比起全世界\n\n19\n00:06:02,435 --> 00:06:25,881\n光害相當嚴重你看到這張圖這張圖好那部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎我就直接先告訴部長陳委員報告事實上剛剛也有人提到環境部本身已經也在研議光害但是我想我要繼續這個就是讓部長能夠做得更積極他對人體健康的影響我想這個光害睡眠一定有\n\n20\n00:06:26,861 --> 00:06:52,323\n視力一定有嘛那你知道因為我們身體的荷爾蒙的分泌是有生物節律是沒錯荷爾蒙的分泌也會異常甚至造成小朋友性早熟都可能是那大家有很多人在開車看到那個遠光燈啊對啊遠光燈有些用LED的那個但是現在國內的汙染的部分有關這個光汙染的這個陳情案每年大概700件是那你比起噪音跟其他看來比較少那是因為國內不知道光汙染也是一個光害沒錯沒錯\n\n21\n00:06:53,024 --> 00:07:20,997\n那他也不知道說這個可以跟誰陳情那部長你在目前為止我談的你都接受跟瞭解這是有一些科學的依據跟全球的一些規範下一張那現在我們就是說我們缺乏光污染這個管制的一個明確法規那2014年我要談的就是說那個法治局其實有一些專題的研究那2021年監察院曾經發函就是說指出中央缺乏強制性的法規\n\n22\n00:07:21,877 --> 00:07:38,485\n好那將會造成集合人力的浪費那地方政府想要做一些自治的條例也無所依循所以要求競速將關害防治法提案這個送審但是今年一月修正的這個關害這個關污染管理指引他連行政命令都不是\n\n23\n00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:55,923\n连这个层次都不是欸所以我想知道说部长您对于这件事情关爱您觉得你环境环境部的态度是积极的吗你管还是不管但是还在指引的阶段啊连行政命令都还不及啊\n\n24\n00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:04,505\n對不對那他這個東西就變成說像像我在舉例好好這個這個最新修正的指引當中他對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆啦好根據國際這個暗光這個協會指就是說各級道路顏色應該不要高於3000kk數越多表示光害越嚴重\n\n25\n00:08:13,270 --> 00:08:42,652\n但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮現在鄉鎮就是基本上都開購4000到5000K的LED燈那你這個東西就是還另外一個現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描這個也沒有納入所以我想最後一張就是說是不是源頭我們要來處理現在捷克在2002年是第一個國家是設立了光害防治法那南韓跟英國也跟上了我想再問一下您知道我們連江縣也有這個所謂光害管制自治條例嗎您知道嗎\n\n26\n00:08:43,912 --> 00:09:04,682\n您知道嗎連江縣我們管轄的連江縣你知道為什麼嗎因為他為了保護藍眼淚好嗎所以整個問題我知道這個問題會跨在環保交通生態農業甚至很多衛生福利等但核心議題還是這個環境保護所以是不是拜託部長就是說我們來去研議很快速研議一些比較有\n\n27\n00:09:05,362 --> 00:09:23,807\n才發的這種標準以及比較具體的這個法規第一個請把非可見光納管因為現在很多工具都在使用第二個明定適合溫流明上線跟開關的時間另外一個是宣導宣導什麼呢燈具照地不照天減少光線的3億好嗎部長可以嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝陳昭姿委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2936\t3977\t謝謝主席有請部長請學部長\n10391\t34301\t部長好今天彰化有一些鄉親不少鄉親都這個金鼎焚化爐開發現場做抗議部長您曉不曉得這件事情好像是今天嗎是今天就是此時此刻那這個開發案因為當初居民是反對的縣政府也反對很重要的在選情的時候總統府秘書長林佳龍也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案\n35501\t47728\t但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會應要新建請問環境部這件事管還是不管給陳委員報告這個案子事實上是在兩年前\n48942\t71264\t就經過環境部那時候環保署的環評環評通過在兩年前當初在環評裡面有規定經營綠能公司他在動工以前必須召開民眾的公聽會就是說因為有一些我知道你的程序也許完成但是有一些政治承諾嘛\n71604\t78442\t市民眾會相信這個看到政治承諾那是不是部長你就是請環境部再下去跟這個\n80233\t102283\t在在在下去做一個溝通協調嗎好嗎因為最多我剛剛已經提到了齁林佳龍秘書長到帳後承諾政府要停止這個開發案好嗎好部長我就這個案子就因為今天發生我盡我的力量但是有些東西是超越我的前線因為我第一個我也沒有就請你關心好就請因為今天他此時此刻好謝謝部長是\n103483\t129895\t市長那我現在在確認一個事實就是說我們目前的那個中小型廢棄物焚化爐帶二型管制及排放的標準當中在第7條第1項第5款有講到既有的焚化爐在居成設備入口的廢棄溫度必須是在規定是在設置280度以下那新設的焚化爐要在200度以下請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的這是2005年規範的我是不是請我們環管署就是說只要說是不是還是正確的是的\n131656\t135542\t好OK那下一張那這一個左邊齁這張圖的左邊就是目前的這個環境部客戶專責教材的截圖啦但是這裡談到的那個觸媒反應齁觸媒反應齁在框起來的地方他是寫200度到450度\n147278\t162961\t﹏﹏\n163061\t163081\t﹝廣告﹞\n178789\t178809\t﹝廣告﹞\n199930\t215544\t進步新的觸媒這個是教材阿專責教材阿對阿所以這個應該修改那再來齁觸媒成分是不是商業機密我想請教部長觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎\n219541\t243677\t當然會是一個商業機密我知道您過去的主張也是如此但是這個是因為它我剛剛提到了會有不斷的研發有不斷的新的材質出現如果連鉛核技術師都不能知道它的內容那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確的而且是能夠有效的這個運作那你這樣做如果不讓他知道那你不是限這個這個\n245956\t254392\t所謂的這個設計這個技師這個簽證簽口都是限他於不義之地嗎現在有處罰的嫌疑嗎因為他不知道真相啊不知道這個內容物啊那部長就說\n259389\t277927\t這件事情就是說如果有一個方法我在想他們宣稱是商業機密那你部長你到現在也從也認為這個是屬於商業機密是其實這個在藥品很多地方都有談藥品的成分配方的是不是商業機密這可以討論那是不是可以這樣因為技師要去核發嘛核簽嘛\n278968\t301594\t那可不可以讓技師知道他的成分比例因為這個影響他的操作溫度嘛那但是他可以簽索密承諾啊部長您覺得是不是可以要處理呢我個人覺得基本上我可以限這個技師於不義啊他不知道啊他還要去簽合啊簽證啊可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的不管是\n302014\t302134\t下一張謝謝部長\n331496\t332298\t您知道這張是什麼圖嗎?\n334361\t361295\t這個PM2.5這是光海這個是美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的那個衛星影像製作的那我跟部長解釋一下藍色跟黑色表示就是該去的夜空是比較相對黑暗那綠色黃色紅色是表示是就是有人造的光散發出來的一個光線部長你可以看到台灣的西部那個放大的圖台灣的西部地區綠色黃色部分比起全世界\n362435\t385881\t光害相當嚴重你看到這張圖這張圖好那部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎我就直接先告訴部長陳委員報告事實上剛剛也有人提到環境部本身已經也在研議光害但是我想我要繼續這個就是讓部長能夠做得更積極他對人體健康的影響我想這個光害睡眠一定有\n386861\t412323\t視力一定有嘛那你知道因為我們身體的荷爾蒙的分泌是有生物節律是沒錯荷爾蒙的分泌也會異常甚至造成小朋友性早熟都可能是那大家有很多人在開車看到那個遠光燈啊對啊遠光燈有些用LED的那個但是現在國內的汙染的部分有關這個光汙染的這個陳情案每年大概700件是那你比起噪音跟其他看來比較少那是因為國內不知道光汙染也是一個光害沒錯沒錯\n413024\t440997\t那他也不知道說這個可以跟誰陳情那部長你在目前為止我談的你都接受跟瞭解這是有一些科學的依據跟全球的一些規範下一張那現在我們就是說我們缺乏光污染這個管制的一個明確法規那2014年我要談的就是說那個法治局其實有一些專題的研究那2021年監察院曾經發函就是說指出中央缺乏強制性的法規\n441877\t458485\t好那將會造成集合人力的浪費那地方政府想要做一些自治的條例也無所依循所以要求競速將關害防治法提案這個送審但是今年一月修正的這個關害這個關污染管理指引他連行政命令都不是\n459125\t475923\t连这个层次都不是欸所以我想知道说部长您对于这件事情关爱您觉得你环境环境部的态度是积极的吗你管还是不管但是还在指引的阶段啊连行政命令都还不及啊\n476840\t484505\t對不對那他這個東西就變成說像像我在舉例好好這個這個最新修正的指引當中他對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆啦好根據國際這個暗光這個協會指就是說各級道路顏色應該不要高於3000 k k數越多表示光害越嚴重\n493270\t522652\t但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮現在鄉鎮就是基本上都開購4000到5000K的LED燈那你這個東西就是還另外一個現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描這個也沒有納入所以我想最後一張就是說是不是源頭我們要來處理現在捷克在2002年是第一個國家是設立了光害防治法那南韓跟英國也跟上了我想再問一下您知道我們連江縣也有這個所謂光害管制自治條例嗎您知道嗎\n523912\t544682\t您知道嗎連江縣我們管轄的連江縣你知道為什麼嗎因為他為了保護藍眼淚好嗎所以整個問題我知道這個問題會跨在環保交通生態農業甚至很多衛生福利等但核心議題還是這個環境保護所以是不是拜託部長就是說我們來去研議很快速研議一些比較有\n545362\t563807\t才發的這種標準以及比較具體的這個法規第一個請把非可見光納管因為現在很多工具都在使用第二個明定適合溫流明上線跟開關的時間另外一個是宣導宣導什麼呢燈具照地不照天減少光線的3億好嗎部長可以嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝陳昭姿委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長請學部長\n部長好今天彰化有一些鄉親不少鄉親都這個金鼎焚化爐開發現場做抗議部長您曉不曉得這件事情好像是今天嗎是今天就是此時此刻那這個開發案因為當初居民是反對的縣政府也反對很重要的在選情的時候總統府秘書長林佳龍也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案\n但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會應要新建請問環境部這件事管還是不管給陳委員報告這個案子事實上是在兩年前\n就經過環境部那時候環保署的環評環評通過在兩年前當初在環評裡面有規定經營綠能公司他在動工以前必須召開民眾的公聽會就是說因為有一些我知道你的程序也許完成但是有一些政治承諾嘛\n市民眾會相信這個看到政治承諾那是不是部長你就是請環境部再下去跟這個\n在在在下去做一個溝通協調嗎好嗎因為最多我剛剛已經提到了齁林佳龍秘書長到帳後承諾政府要停止這個開發案好嗎好部長我就這個案子就因為今天發生我盡我的力量但是有些東西是超越我的前線因為我第一個我也沒有就請你關心好就請因為今天他此時此刻好謝謝部長是\n市長那我現在在確認一個事實就是說我們目前的那個中小型廢棄物焚化爐帶二型管制及排放的標準當中在第7條第1項第5款有講到既有的焚化爐在居成設備入口的廢棄溫度必須是在規定是在設置280度以下那新設的焚化爐要在200度以下請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的這是2005年規範的我是不是請我們環管署就是說只要說是不是還是正確的是的\n好OK那下一張那這一個左邊齁這張圖的左邊就是目前的這個環境部客戶專責教材的截圖啦但是這裡談到的那個觸媒反應齁觸媒反應齁在框起來的地方他是寫200度到450度\n﹏﹏\n﹝廣告﹞\n﹝廣告﹞\n進步新的觸媒這個是教材阿專責教材阿對阿所以這個應該修改那再來齁觸媒成分是不是商業機密我想請教部長觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎\n當然會是一個商業機密我知道您過去的主張也是如此但是這個是因為它我剛剛提到了會有不斷的研發有不斷的新的材質出現如果連鉛核技術師都不能知道它的內容那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確的而且是能夠有效的這個運作那你這樣做如果不讓他知道那你不是限這個這個\n所謂的這個設計這個技師這個簽證簽口都是限他於不義之地嗎現在有處罰的嫌疑嗎因為他不知道真相啊不知道這個內容物啊那部長就說\n這件事情就是說如果有一個方法我在想他們宣稱是商業機密那你部長你到現在也從也認為這個是屬於商業機密是其實這個在藥品很多地方都有談藥品的成分配方的是不是商業機密這可以討論那是不是可以這樣因為技師要去核發嘛核簽嘛\n那可不可以讓技師知道他的成分比例因為這個影響他的操作溫度嘛那但是他可以簽索密承諾啊部長您覺得是不是可以要處理呢我個人覺得基本上我可以限這個技師於不義啊他不知道啊他還要去簽合啊簽證啊可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的不管是\n下一張謝謝部長\n您知道這張是什麼圖嗎?\n這個PM2.5這是光海這個是美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的那個衛星影像製作的那我跟部長解釋一下藍色跟黑色表示就是該去的夜空是比較相對黑暗那綠色黃色紅色是表示是就是有人造的光散發出來的一個光線部長你可以看到台灣的西部那個放大的圖台灣的西部地區綠色黃色部分比起全世界\n光害相當嚴重你看到這張圖這張圖好那部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎我就直接先告訴部長陳委員報告事實上剛剛也有人提到環境部本身已經也在研議光害但是我想我要繼續這個就是讓部長能夠做得更積極他對人體健康的影響我想這個光害睡眠一定有\n視力一定有嘛那你知道因為我們身體的荷爾蒙的分泌是有生物節律是沒錯荷爾蒙的分泌也會異常甚至造成小朋友性早熟都可能是那大家有很多人在開車看到那個遠光燈啊對啊遠光燈有些用LED的那個但是現在國內的汙染的部分有關這個光汙染的這個陳情案每年大概700件是那你比起噪音跟其他看來比較少那是因為國內不知道光汙染也是一個光害沒錯沒錯\n那他也不知道說這個可以跟誰陳情那部長你在目前為止我談的你都接受跟瞭解這是有一些科學的依據跟全球的一些規範下一張那現在我們就是說我們缺乏光污染這個管制的一個明確法規那2014年我要談的就是說那個法治局其實有一些專題的研究那2021年監察院曾經發函就是說指出中央缺乏強制性的法規\n好那將會造成集合人力的浪費那地方政府想要做一些自治的條例也無所依循所以要求競速將關害防治法提案這個送審但是今年一月修正的這個關害這個關污染管理指引他連行政命令都不是\n连这个层次都不是欸所以我想知道说部长您对于这件事情关爱您觉得你环境环境部的态度是积极的吗你管还是不管但是还在指引的阶段啊连行政命令都还不及啊\n對不對那他這個東西就變成說像像我在舉例好好這個這個最新修正的指引當中他對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆啦好根據國際這個暗光這個協會指就是說各級道路顏色應該不要高於3000 k k數越多表示光害越嚴重\n但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮現在鄉鎮就是基本上都開購4000到5000K的LED燈那你這個東西就是還另外一個現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描這個也沒有納入所以我想最後一張就是說是不是源頭我們要來處理現在捷克在2002年是第一個國家是設立了光害防治法那南韓跟英國也跟上了我想再問一下您知道我們連江縣也有這個所謂光害管制自治條例嗎您知道嗎\n您知道嗎連江縣我們管轄的連江縣你知道為什麼嗎因為他為了保護藍眼淚好嗎所以整個問題我知道這個問題會跨在環保交通生態農業甚至很多衛生福利等但核心議題還是這個環境保護所以是不是拜託部長就是說我們來去研議很快速研議一些比較有\n才發的這種標準以及比較具體的這個法規第一個請把非可見光納管因為現在很多工具都在使用第二個明定適合溫流明上線跟開關的時間另外一個是宣導宣導什麼呢燈具照地不照天減少光線的3億好嗎部長可以嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝陳昭姿委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.936 --> 00:03.977\n謝謝主席有請部長請學部長\n\n00:10.391 --> 00:34.301\n部長好今天彰化有一些鄉親不少鄉親都這個金鼎焚化爐開發現場做抗議部長您曉不曉得這件事情好像是今天嗎是今天就是此時此刻那這個開發案因為當初居民是反對的縣政府也反對很重要的在選情的時候總統府秘書長林佳龍也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案\n\n00:35.501 --> 00:47.728\n但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會應要新建請問環境部這件事管還是不管給陳委員報告這個案子事實上是在兩年前\n\n00:48.942 --> 01:11.264\n就經過環境部那時候環保署的環評環評通過在兩年前當初在環評裡面有規定經營綠能公司他在動工以前必須召開民眾的公聽會就是說因為有一些我知道你的程序也許完成但是有一些政治承諾嘛\n\n01:11.604 --> 01:18.442\n市民眾會相信這個看到政治承諾那是不是部長你就是請環境部再下去跟這個\n\n01:20.233 --> 01:42.283\n在在在下去做一個溝通協調嗎好嗎因為最多我剛剛已經提到了齁林佳龍秘書長到帳後承諾政府要停止這個開發案好嗎好部長我就這個案子就因為今天發生我盡我的力量但是有些東西是超越我的前線因為我第一個我也沒有就請你關心好就請因為今天他此時此刻好謝謝部長是\n\n01:43.483 --> 02:09.895\n市長那我現在在確認一個事實就是說我們目前的那個中小型廢棄物焚化爐帶二型管制及排放的標準當中在第7條第1項第5款有講到既有的焚化爐在居成設備入口的廢棄溫度必須是在規定是在設置280度以下那新設的焚化爐要在200度以下請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的這是2005年規範的我是不是請我們環管署就是說只要說是不是還是正確的是的\n\n02:11.656 --> 02:15.542\n好OK那下一張那這一個左邊齁這張圖的左邊就是目前的這個環境部客戶專責教材的截圖啦但是這裡談到的那個觸媒反應齁觸媒反應齁在框起來的地方他是寫200度到450度\n\n02:43.061 --> 02:43.081\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n02:58.789 --> 02:58.809\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n03:19.930 --> 03:35.544\n進步新的觸媒這個是教材阿專責教材阿對阿所以這個應該修改那再來齁觸媒成分是不是商業機密我想請教部長觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎\n\n03:39.541 --> 04:03.677\n當然會是一個商業機密我知道您過去的主張也是如此但是這個是因為它我剛剛提到了會有不斷的研發有不斷的新的材質出現如果連鉛核技術師都不能知道它的內容那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確的而且是能夠有效的這個運作那你這樣做如果不讓他知道那你不是限這個這個\n\n04:05.956 --> 04:14.392\n所謂的這個設計這個技師這個簽證簽口都是限他於不義之地嗎現在有處罰的嫌疑嗎因為他不知道真相啊不知道這個內容物啊那部長就說\n\n04:19.389 --> 04:37.927\n這件事情就是說如果有一個方法我在想他們宣稱是商業機密那你部長你到現在也從也認為這個是屬於商業機密是其實這個在藥品很多地方都有談藥品的成分配方的是不是商業機密這可以討論那是不是可以這樣因為技師要去核發嘛核簽嘛\n\n04:38.968 --> 05:01.594\n那可不可以讓技師知道他的成分比例因為這個影響他的操作溫度嘛那但是他可以簽索密承諾啊部長您覺得是不是可以要處理呢我個人覺得基本上我可以限這個技師於不義啊他不知道啊他還要去簽合啊簽證啊可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的不管是\n\n05:02.014 --> 05:02.134\n下一張謝謝部長\n\n05:31.496 --> 05:32.298\n您知道這張是什麼圖嗎?\n\n05:34.361 --> 06:01.295\n這個PM2.5這是光海這個是美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的那個衛星影像製作的那我跟部長解釋一下藍色跟黑色表示就是該去的夜空是比較相對黑暗那綠色黃色紅色是表示是就是有人造的光散發出來的一個光線部長你可以看到台灣的西部那個放大的圖台灣的西部地區綠色黃色部分比起全世界\n\n06:02.435 --> 06:25.881\n光害相當嚴重你看到這張圖這張圖好那部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎我就直接先告訴部長陳委員報告事實上剛剛也有人提到環境部本身已經也在研議光害但是我想我要繼續這個就是讓部長能夠做得更積極他對人體健康的影響我想這個光害睡眠一定有\n\n06:26.861 --> 06:52.323\n視力一定有嘛那你知道因為我們身體的荷爾蒙的分泌是有生物節律是沒錯荷爾蒙的分泌也會異常甚至造成小朋友性早熟都可能是那大家有很多人在開車看到那個遠光燈啊對啊遠光燈有些用LED的那個但是現在國內的汙染的部分有關這個光汙染的這個陳情案每年大概700件是那你比起噪音跟其他看來比較少那是因為國內不知道光汙染也是一個光害沒錯沒錯\n\n06:53.024 --> 07:20.997\n那他也不知道說這個可以跟誰陳情那部長你在目前為止我談的你都接受跟瞭解這是有一些科學的依據跟全球的一些規範下一張那現在我們就是說我們缺乏光污染這個管制的一個明確法規那2014年我要談的就是說那個法治局其實有一些專題的研究那2021年監察院曾經發函就是說指出中央缺乏強制性的法規\n\n07:21.877 --> 07:38.485\n好那將會造成集合人力的浪費那地方政府想要做一些自治的條例也無所依循所以要求競速將關害防治法提案這個送審但是今年一月修正的這個關害這個關污染管理指引他連行政命令都不是\n\n07:39.125 --> 07:55.923\n连这个层次都不是欸所以我想知道说部长您对于这件事情关爱您觉得你环境环境部的态度是积极的吗你管还是不管但是还在指引的阶段啊连行政命令都还不及啊\n\n07:56.840 --> 08:04.505\n對不對那他這個東西就變成說像像我在舉例好好這個這個最新修正的指引當中他對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆啦好根據國際這個暗光這個協會指就是說各級道路顏色應該不要高於3000kk數越多表示光害越嚴重\n\n08:13.270 --> 08:42.652\n但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮現在鄉鎮就是基本上都開購4000到5000K的LED燈那你這個東西就是還另外一個現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描這個也沒有納入所以我想最後一張就是說是不是源頭我們要來處理現在捷克在2002年是第一個國家是設立了光害防治法那南韓跟英國也跟上了我想再問一下您知道我們連江縣也有這個所謂光害管制自治條例嗎您知道嗎\n\n08:43.912 --> 09:04.682\n您知道嗎連江縣我們管轄的連江縣你知道為什麼嗎因為他為了保護藍眼淚好嗎所以整個問題我知道這個問題會跨在環保交通生態農業甚至很多衛生福利等但核心議題還是這個環境保護所以是不是拜託部長就是說我們來去研議很快速研議一些比較有\n\n09:05.362 --> 09:23.807\n才發的這種標準以及比較具體的這個法規第一個請把非可見光納管因為現在很多工具都在使用第二個明定適合溫流明上線跟開關的時間另外一個是宣導宣導什麼呢燈具照地不照天減少光線的3億好嗎部長可以嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝陳昭姿委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.936,"end":3.977,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請學部長"},{"start":10.391,"end":34.301,"text":"部長好今天彰化有一些鄉親不少鄉親都這個金鼎焚化爐開發現場做抗議部長您曉不曉得這件事情好像是今天嗎是今天就是此時此刻那這個開發案因為當初居民是反對的縣政府也反對很重要的在選情的時候總統府秘書長林佳龍也到現場承諾政府會停止這個開發案"},{"start":35.501,"end":47.728,"text":"但是選後開發廠商又開始辦說明會應要新建請問環境部這件事管還是不管給陳委員報告這個案子事實上是在兩年前"},{"start":48.942,"end":71.264,"text":"就經過環境部那時候環保署的環評環評通過在兩年前當初在環評裡面有規定經營綠能公司他在動工以前必須召開民眾的公聽會就是說因為有一些我知道你的程序也許完成但是有一些政治承諾嘛"},{"start":71.604,"end":78.442,"text":"市民眾會相信這個看到政治承諾那是不是部長你就是請環境部再下去跟這個"},{"start":80.233,"end":102.283,"text":"在在在下去做一個溝通協調嗎好嗎因為最多我剛剛已經提到了齁林佳龍秘書長到帳後承諾政府要停止這個開發案好嗎好部長我就這個案子就因為今天發生我盡我的力量但是有些東西是超越我的前線因為我第一個我也沒有就請你關心好就請因為今天他此時此刻好謝謝部長是"},{"start":103.483,"end":129.895,"text":"市長那我現在在確認一個事實就是說我們目前的那個中小型廢棄物焚化爐帶二型管制及排放的標準當中在第7條第1項第5款有講到既有的焚化爐在居成設備入口的廢棄溫度必須是在規定是在設置280度以下那新設的焚化爐要在200度以下請問這個規定現在是不是還是有效的這是2005年規範的我是不是請我們環管署就是說只要說是不是還是正確的是的"},{"start":131.656,"end":135.542,"text":"好OK那下一張那這一個左邊齁這張圖的左邊就是目前的這個環境部客戶專責教材的截圖啦但是這裡談到的那個觸媒反應齁觸媒反應齁在框起來的地方他是寫200度到450度"},{"start":147.278,"end":162.961,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":163.061,"end":163.081,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":178.789,"end":178.809,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":199.93,"end":215.544,"text":"進步新的觸媒這個是教材阿專責教材阿對阿所以這個應該修改那再來齁觸媒成分是不是商業機密我想請教部長觸媒廠商說自己的觸媒是商業機密請問你同意或支持這個說法嗎"},{"start":219.541,"end":243.677,"text":"當然會是一個商業機密我知道您過去的主張也是如此但是這個是因為它我剛剛提到了會有不斷的研發有不斷的新的材質出現如果連鉛核技術師都不能知道它的內容那請問技術師要怎麼去核實這家工廠的觸媒裝置跟操作溫度是正確的而且是能夠有效的這個運作那你這樣做如果不讓他知道那你不是限這個這個"},{"start":245.956,"end":254.392,"text":"所謂的這個設計這個技師這個簽證簽口都是限他於不義之地嗎現在有處罰的嫌疑嗎因為他不知道真相啊不知道這個內容物啊那部長就說"},{"start":259.389,"end":277.927,"text":"這件事情就是說如果有一個方法我在想他們宣稱是商業機密那你部長你到現在也從也認為這個是屬於商業機密是其實這個在藥品很多地方都有談藥品的成分配方的是不是商業機密這可以討論那是不是可以這樣因為技師要去核發嘛核簽嘛"},{"start":278.968,"end":301.594,"text":"那可不可以讓技師知道他的成分比例因為這個影響他的操作溫度嘛那但是他可以簽索密承諾啊部長您覺得是不是可以要處理呢我個人覺得基本上我可以限這個技師於不義啊他不知道啊他還要去簽合啊簽證啊可是我們應該看他使用這個觸媒所產生出來的不管是"},{"start":302.014,"end":302.134,"text":"下一張謝謝部長"},{"start":331.496,"end":332.298,"text":"您知道這張是什麼圖嗎?"},{"start":334.361,"end":361.295,"text":"這個PM2.5這是光海這個是美國太空總署跟美國國家海洋暨大氣總署的那個衛星影像製作的那我跟部長解釋一下藍色跟黑色表示就是該去的夜空是比較相對黑暗那綠色黃色紅色是表示是就是有人造的光散發出來的一個光線部長你可以看到台灣的西部那個放大的圖台灣的西部地區綠色黃色部分比起全世界"},{"start":362.435,"end":385.881,"text":"光害相當嚴重你看到這張圖這張圖好那部長知道光害會造成什麼影響嗎我就直接先告訴部長陳委員報告事實上剛剛也有人提到環境部本身已經也在研議光害但是我想我要繼續這個就是讓部長能夠做得更積極他對人體健康的影響我想這個光害睡眠一定有"},{"start":386.861,"end":412.323,"text":"視力一定有嘛那你知道因為我們身體的荷爾蒙的分泌是有生物節律是沒錯荷爾蒙的分泌也會異常甚至造成小朋友性早熟都可能是那大家有很多人在開車看到那個遠光燈啊對啊遠光燈有些用LED的那個但是現在國內的汙染的部分有關這個光汙染的這個陳情案每年大概700件是那你比起噪音跟其他看來比較少那是因為國內不知道光汙染也是一個光害沒錯沒錯"},{"start":413.024,"end":440.997,"text":"那他也不知道說這個可以跟誰陳情那部長你在目前為止我談的你都接受跟瞭解這是有一些科學的依據跟全球的一些規範下一張那現在我們就是說我們缺乏光污染這個管制的一個明確法規那2014年我要談的就是說那個法治局其實有一些專題的研究那2021年監察院曾經發函就是說指出中央缺乏強制性的法規"},{"start":441.877,"end":458.485,"text":"好那將會造成集合人力的浪費那地方政府想要做一些自治的條例也無所依循所以要求競速將關害防治法提案這個送審但是今年一月修正的這個關害這個關污染管理指引他連行政命令都不是"},{"start":459.125,"end":475.923,"text":"连这个层次都不是欸所以我想知道说部长您对于这件事情关爱您觉得你环境环境部的态度是积极的吗你管还是不管但是还在指引的阶段啊连行政命令都还不及啊"},{"start":476.84,"end":484.505,"text":"對不對那他這個東西就變成說像像我在舉例好好這個這個最新修正的指引當中他對於路燈色溫規定很寬鬆啦好根據國際這個暗光這個協會指就是說各級道路顏色應該不要高於3000 k k數越多表示光害越嚴重"},{"start":493.27,"end":522.652,"text":"但是臺灣現在的鄉鎮現在鄉鎮就是基本上都開購4000到5000K的LED燈那你這個東西就是還另外一個現在很多交通工具是利用非可見光來偵測或掃描這個也沒有納入所以我想最後一張就是說是不是源頭我們要來處理現在捷克在2002年是第一個國家是設立了光害防治法那南韓跟英國也跟上了我想再問一下您知道我們連江縣也有這個所謂光害管制自治條例嗎您知道嗎"},{"start":523.912,"end":544.682,"text":"您知道嗎連江縣我們管轄的連江縣你知道為什麼嗎因為他為了保護藍眼淚好嗎所以整個問題我知道這個問題會跨在環保交通生態農業甚至很多衛生福利等但核心議題還是這個環境保護所以是不是拜託部長就是說我們來去研議很快速研議一些比較有"},{"start":545.362,"end":563.807,"text":"才發的這種標準以及比較具體的這個法規第一個請把非可見光納管因為現在很多工具都在使用第二個明定適合溫流明上線跟開關的時間另外一個是宣導宣導什麼呢燈具照地不照天減少光線的3億好嗎部長可以嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝陳昭姿委員"}]}}}}