{"id":149922,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149922","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d2313559e2236cc02af7a508cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a671a3c8e0ddb401085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:16:05 - 12:23:30","影片長度":"00:07:25","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":445,"end_time":"2024-03-14T12:23:30+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T12:16:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1517,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時16分）主席，在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請環境部薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。部長還記得去年10月20日我在院會總質詢跟你請教時你的承諾嗎？我請院長指示，責成環境部跟農業部參照農產品初級加工廠管理辦法，將符合農業剩餘物資再利用的環境稽查法規，由農業部儘量主責，你還記得嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是。我還到委員的辦公室。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有錯，在我的辦公室，也在院會質詢過，不過你對我在辦公室跟您請益的部分內容印象比較深刻，我幫你回憶一下。去年在院會上的質詢就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異，包含標準化、規格化、有生命、無生命、多樣性跟差異性，我就不再贅述。另外呢？我們環境部卻是用對工業製造的同樣態度來面對農業生產，如果是工業的話，有化工毒害，可是農業呢，最多就是空污臭味，資本家資本雄厚可以承受處罰，但同樣的處罰，落在小農身上呢？小農受不了。所以用對工業製造的態度制定出來的環境影響法規對付農民，其實不是農民所能承受的。反過來說，工業製造跟農業生產造成的衝擊跟傷害，工業製造有包括人權傷害、氣候變遷與環境破壞這些不可回復的後果，但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限。","請教一下像蘇丹紅事件，人工的添加物比較有危害，還是我們農民種的辣椒？哪一個危害重？"],["薛部長富盛：當然是工業。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然是工業添加物的危害嚴重嘛，對不對？我們農民種的天然作物，天然的最好啦，再怎麼不喜歡，也不會有毒害的問題存在。接著，農業生產的型態，我們各部會怎麼因應呢？其實我們就不斷強調，農業部當時針對農產品初級加工，在面對食安的時候，成功得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持，農業的初級加工不用適用工廠管理法，農業的初級加工也不用適用食品安全法，因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題，部長，你同意嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：對，基本上只有農藥使用的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以說，同樣的農業生產，在環境的部分，農業所造成的環境問題，我們看看怎麼來解決。在今天你的口頭報告第10頁當中，提到目前農業的剩餘物資，抱歉，我一向不接受以農業廢棄物的形式來思考，因為天然長出來的東西沒有所謂的廢棄物，只有放錯地方的資源，你同意嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我們本來是要推這個概念。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念。"],["薛部長富盛：但是還是有另外一種聲音，覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這個名稱放在農業上，譬如說，像雞糞啊……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我瞭解，但是我希望你們可以用規模、數量和定性的方式來區隔，大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的，就是符合你們今天要推的資源循環促進法，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。現在環境部定了廢清法，你們希望能夠用資源循環促進法來處理，農業部本來在食品的部分已經有一個辦法，現在也再訂定一個辦法，能源署也有再生能源辦法，而資源循環促進法案即將推出，已經預告了沒有？"],["薛部長富盛：還沒有，因為還在溝通階段。"],["鍾委員佳濱：在溝通階段，正好，我這個質詢正好及時。本次修法當然是由環境部統一權責，但是農業部門的生產是不是可以另外有一個專法？我希望的就是一個農業資源循環促進法，就是加上「農業」，為什麼要把農業特定化？我舉例來講，部長，你可以看一下我手上這個，這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂，你知道是用什麼做的嗎？是用豆粕做的，豆粕就是黃豆榨油或做其他東西後留下來的廢棄物，工廠進口黃豆生產沙拉油，剩下的豆粕是不是事業廢棄物？是事業廢棄物，但是這個事業廢棄物其實幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害，如果經過適當的處理，可以做成我們洗澡的香皂。同樣的道理，很多農業剩餘物，在生產的過程當中，不能送餐桌使用的，我們就把它當作飼料，不能當飼料的，就當肥料，不能當肥料的，我們當燃料，這樣的農業剩餘，有什麼環境的破壞？","我親身接觸的一個廠，將農業剩餘當中的木纖維高溫裂解產生氣體，然後用這個氣體燃燒來發電，名稱叫做生物質燃氣發電，早先在二次大戰的時候，曾經有一種煤氣車，是燒木柴的車，不是用蒸汽，是燒木柴變成煤氣，煤氣再去燃燒，透過引擎去推動，有這樣的技術嘛！這樣的技術就遇到一個問題，到底它是屬於廢棄物發電、或是農業廢棄物發電、或是生質能發電？現在這個業者遇到什麼狀況？在農忙、農產品多的時候，他可以大量使用農業的剩餘，但是在農業收穫之後，使用的這個東西減少了，於是他開始去合板工廠找裁切料，因為這些工廠有大量的裁切料，而且這些裁切料與他用的農業剩餘差不多都是木纖維。但是問題就來了，當他要使用這些裁切料的時候，農業部不能界定合板工廠的裁切料是農剩，不能說是農業廢棄物，而是你們認定的工廠事業廢棄物，所以他就不能使用了。","最後的結論，我希望環境部能否針對農業資源循環，在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候，將農業的部分與農業部協商另訂定一個專法。我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外，這個很嚴重，不能讓它進來，我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進事業廢棄物處理。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：最後希望你做一個承諾，偕同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案，可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，鍾委員，我們來努力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：本席的主題就是農業資源循環比照資源循環促進法的方式立法，你願意參考嗎？我們共同找農業部來推動？"],["薛部長富盛：可以，各部會分工合作是好的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝鍾委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員，接下來請劉建國委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"鍾\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 441.419, \"end\": 441.579, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 441.579, \"end\": 441.599, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,053 --> 00:00:27,627\n二主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請環境部薛部長請薛部長好中文好欸等一下畫面還沒出來畫面還沒出來\n\n2\n00:00:29,775 --> 00:00:50,391\n好部長好部長還記得嗎在去年10月22號我在院會總質詢跟你請教去年你的承諾我請院長指示責成環境部跟農業部呢來參照農產品初期加工廠管理辦法將符合農業剩餘物資在利用的環境稽查法規是不是讓由農業部來盡量的主責你還記得嗎是是記得嗎那時候我的\n\n3\n00:00:53,453 --> 00:01:17,104\n沒有錯在我的辦公室也在院會質詢過不過你對我在辦公室跟您請議的部分比較內容深刻我幫你回憶一下我去年在院會上的質詢下一頁他就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異我就不再贅述標準化規格化有生命無生命還有多樣性跟差異性好另外呢下一頁我們環境部卻是用工業製造的同樣的態度來面對農業生產\n\n4\n00:01:18,365 --> 00:01:34,802\n包括我們看到了如果是工業的話他有化工毒害可是農業的最多就是空污臭味那麼資本家資本雄厚小農呢你同樣的處罰小農受不了所以在同樣用工業制造的同一個態度制定出來的反清洗法規對付農民其實不是農民所能承受\n\n5\n00:01:35,342 --> 00:02:00,161\n反過來我們繼續看往下看工業製造跟農業生產它的衝擊跟傷害工業製造包括人權傷害環境變遷氣候變遷環境破壞這些不可回復的後果但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限接下來我們來看一下下一頁比如說請教一下像蘇丹紅事件人工的添加物比較有危害還是我們農民種的辣椒它的生產再怎麼樣哪一個危害重\n\n6\n00:02:02,574 --> 00:02:30,811\n工業當然當然是工業的添加物嚴重嘛對不對我們農民天然的天然的通貨啦在那你不敢他也不會有毒害的問題存在好但是接下來我們往下看農業生產的形態我們各位怎麼因應呢其實我們就不斷強調農業部他當時針對的農產品初期加工在面對食安的時候他成功的得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持農業的初期加工不用適用工廠管理法\n\n7\n00:02:31,371 --> 00:02:36,882\n我們農業的初級加工也不用食品安全法因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題部長你同意嗎\n\n8\n00:02:38,955 --> 00:03:03,584\n對他基本上是只有農藥的使用的那個問題對所以說同樣的農業生產我們的環境的部分農業所造成的環境問題我們看看怎麼來解決好那往下看但是在今天您的報告口頭報告第10頁當中目前農業的剩餘物資抱歉我一向不接受農業廢棄物的事情思考因為天然長出來的沒有所謂的廢棄物只有放錯地方的資源你同意嗎\n\n9\n00:03:04,705 --> 00:03:32,993\n我們本來是要推這個概念是現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念但是還是有另外一股聲音覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這種名稱譬如說在農業這一塊積分這個我們了解但是我希望說你們可以用規模跟數量和它的定性的方式來區隔大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的就是符合你們今天要推的什麼\n\n10\n00:03:33,733 --> 00:03:58,959\n支援循環促進法對不對好那麼我們來看一下往下一頁現在我們環境部有訂了一個廢清法你們希望能夠用支援循環促進法來處理那農業部本來已經在食品的部分已經有一個辦法了他現在呢也在訂一個辦法那農業部有在訂一個辦法那我們來看一下接下來下一頁支援循環促進法案即將推出已經預告了沒有還沒有因為\n\n11\n00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:14,453\n在溝通階段正好我這個發言我這個質詢即時本次修法當然是由環境部統一全責但是是不是農業部門的生產可以另外有一個專法我希望的就是一個什麼\n\n12\n00:04:16,616 --> 00:04:42,348\n農業資源循環促進法就是加個農業為什麼要把農業特徵放的我往下看來我舉例來講我手上的這一個來部長你可以看一下我手上這一個這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂你知道他用什麼做的嗎他用導泡做的啦導泡就是黃豆炸油或者做其他的事情然後留下來導泡導泡他是廢棄是不是一個廢棄物\n\n13\n00:04:44,093 --> 00:04:45,315\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n14\n00:04:58,875 --> 00:05:22,409\n但是這個事業維修他其實上他幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害他如果經過適當的處理他可以做成我們洗澡的香皂同樣道理在很多農業剩餘當中他可能在生產過程當中我們不能送餐桌使用的我們當做什麼當作飼料不能當飼料的當肥料不能當肥料我們當燃料這樣的農業剩餘有什麼環境的破壞我們來看一下這是我一個親身接觸的一個場\n\n15\n00:05:23,329 --> 00:05:31,932\n他是用什麼呢他用木質的木纖維就是農業的剩餘當中的木纖維他用來一個高溫裂解產生氣體然後呢他用這個氣體燃燒來發電他的名稱叫做生質能生物質燃氣發電我們早先在二次大戰的時候曾經有一種煤氣車煤氣車不是蒸氣他煤氣是變成煤氣煤氣再去燃燒就是透過引擎去推動有這樣的技術嗎\n\n16\n00:05:52,239 --> 00:05:59,661\n好這樣的技術呢他現在遇到一個問題了到底他是屬於廢棄物發電還是農業廢棄物發電還是生殖能發電現在這個業者要什麼狀況他在農忙農產品多的時候他是大量使用農業的剩餘\n\n17\n00:06:08,304 --> 00:06:25,582\n但是在農業收穫之後他這個東西減少了他開始去河板工廠搞幫啊材切料啊這些工廠有大量的材切料這些材切料跟他用的農剩的這個剩餘呢其實差不多都是木纖維但是呢這下就來啦\n\n18\n00:06:26,323 --> 00:06:46,049\n他要運用的時候農業部不能界定這個盒板工廠的材切料是農剩嘛不能說是農業廢棄物是你們的工廠認定的事業廢棄物嘛他可不可以使用他就不能使用了所以說我們希望最後的結論主席站起來了齁我希望呢環境部能否將農業資源循環在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候將農業的部分可以跟農業部協商另訂一個專法\n\n19\n00:06:53,371 --> 00:07:15,705\n我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外這很嚴重不能讓它進來我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進了失業廢棄物來處理最後希望你最後一個承諾協同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案可以嗎好那本題的這個主題就是說農業資源循環比照我們資源循環促進法的方式來立法你願意\n\n20\n00:07:16,766 --> 00:07:21,599\n參考嗎?我們共同找農業部來推動?可以啊,各部份分工合作這個是好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝鍾委員,好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12053\t27627\t二主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請環境部薛部長請薛部長好中文好欸等一下畫面還沒出來畫面還沒出來\n29775\t50391\t好部長好部長還記得嗎在去年10月22號我在院會總質詢跟你請教去年你的承諾我請院長指示責成環境部跟農業部呢來參照農產品初期加工廠管理辦法將符合農業剩餘物資在利用的環境稽查法規是不是讓由農業部來盡量的主責你還記得嗎是是記得嗎那時候我的\n53453\t77104\t沒有錯在我的辦公室也在院會質詢過不過你對我在辦公室跟您請議的部分比較內容深刻我幫你回憶一下我去年在院會上的質詢下一頁他就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異我就不再贅述標準化規格化有生命無生命還有多樣性跟差異性好另外呢下一頁我們環境部卻是用工業製造的同樣的態度來面對農業生產\n78365\t94802\t包括我們看到了如果是工業的話他有化工毒害可是農業的最多就是空污臭味那麼資本家資本雄厚小農呢你同樣的處罰小農受不了所以在同樣用工業制造的同一個態度制定出來的反清洗法規對付農民其實不是農民所能承受\n95342\t120161\t反過來我們繼續看往下看工業製造跟農業生產它的衝擊跟傷害工業製造包括人權傷害環境變遷氣候變遷環境破壞這些不可回復的後果但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限接下來我們來看一下下一頁比如說請教一下像蘇丹紅事件人工的添加物比較有危害還是我們農民種的辣椒它的生產再怎麼樣哪一個危害重\n122574\t150811\t工業當然當然是工業的添加物嚴重嘛對不對我們農民天然的天然的通貨啦在那你不敢他也不會有毒害的問題存在好但是接下來我們往下看農業生產的形態我們各位怎麼因應呢其實我們就不斷強調農業部他當時針對的農產品初期加工在面對食安的時候他成功的得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持農業的初期加工不用適用工廠管理法\n151371\t156882\t我們農業的初級加工也不用食品安全法因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題部長你同意嗎\n158955\t183584\t對他基本上是只有農藥的使用的那個問題對所以說同樣的農業生產我們的環境的部分農業所造成的環境問題我們看看怎麼來解決好那往下看但是在今天您的報告口頭報告第10頁當中目前農業的剩餘物資抱歉我一向不接受農業廢棄物的事情思考因為天然長出來的沒有所謂的廢棄物只有放錯地方的資源你同意嗎\n184705\t212993\t我們本來是要推這個概念是現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念但是還是有另外一股聲音覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這種名稱譬如說在農業這一塊積分這個我們了解但是我希望說你們可以用規模跟數量和它的定性的方式來區隔大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的就是符合你們今天要推的什麼\n213733\t238959\t支援循環促進法對不對好那麼我們來看一下往下一頁現在我們環境部有訂了一個廢清法你們希望能夠用支援循環促進法來處理那農業部本來已經在食品的部分已經有一個辦法了他現在呢也在訂一個辦法那農業部有在訂一個辦法那我們來看一下接下來下一頁支援循環促進法案即將推出已經預告了沒有還沒有因為\n241980\t254453\t在溝通階段正好我這個發言我這個質詢即時本次修法當然是由環境部統一全責但是是不是農業部門的生產可以另外有一個專法我希望的就是一個什麼\n256616\t282348\t農業資源循環促進法就是加個農業為什麼要把農業特徵放的我往下看來我舉例來講我手上的這一個來部長你可以看一下我手上這一個這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂你知道他用什麼做的嗎他用導泡做的啦導泡就是黃豆炸油或者做其他的事情然後留下來導泡導泡他是廢棄是不是一個廢棄物\n284093\t285315\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n298875\t322409\t但是這個事業維修他其實上他幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害他如果經過適當的處理他可以做成我們洗澡的香皂同樣道理在很多農業剩餘當中他可能在生產過程當中我們不能送餐桌使用的我們當做什麼當作飼料不能當飼料的當肥料不能當肥料我們當燃料這樣的農業剩餘有什麼環境的破壞我們來看一下這是我一個親身接觸的一個場\n323329\t331932\t他是用什麼呢他用木質的木纖維就是農業的剩餘當中的木纖維他用來一個高溫裂解產生氣體然後呢他用這個氣體燃燒來發電他的名稱叫做生質能生物質燃氣發電我們早先在二次大戰的時候曾經有一種煤氣車煤氣車不是蒸氣他煤氣是變成煤氣煤氣再去燃燒就是透過引擎去推動有這樣的技術嗎\n352239\t359661\t好這樣的技術呢他現在遇到一個問題了到底他是屬於廢棄物發電還是農業廢棄物發電還是生殖能發電現在這個業者要什麼狀況他在農忙農產品多的時候他是大量使用農業的剩餘\n368304\t385582\t但是在農業收穫之後他這個東西減少了他開始去河板工廠搞幫啊材切料啊這些工廠有大量的材切料這些材切料跟他用的農剩的這個剩餘呢其實差不多都是木纖維但是呢這下就來啦\n386323\t406049\t他要運用的時候農業部不能界定這個盒板工廠的材切料是農剩嘛不能說是農業廢棄物是你們的工廠認定的事業廢棄物嘛他可不可以使用他就不能使用了所以說我們希望最後的結論主席站起來了齁我希望呢環境部能否將農業資源循環在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候將農業的部分可以跟農業部協商另訂一個專法\n413371\t435705\t我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外這很嚴重不能讓它進來我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進了失業廢棄物來處理最後希望你最後一個承諾協同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案可以嗎好那本題的這個主題就是說農業資源循環比照我們資源循環促進法的方式來立法你願意\n436766\t441599\t參考嗎?我們共同找農業部來推動?可以啊,各部份分工合作這個是好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝鍾委員,好謝謝\n","txt":"二主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請環境部薛部長請薛部長好中文好欸等一下畫面還沒出來畫面還沒出來\n好部長好部長還記得嗎在去年10月22號我在院會總質詢跟你請教去年你的承諾我請院長指示責成環境部跟農業部呢來參照農產品初期加工廠管理辦法將符合農業剩餘物資在利用的環境稽查法規是不是讓由農業部來盡量的主責你還記得嗎是是記得嗎那時候我的\n沒有錯在我的辦公室也在院會質詢過不過你對我在辦公室跟您請議的部分比較內容深刻我幫你回憶一下我去年在院會上的質詢下一頁他就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異我就不再贅述標準化規格化有生命無生命還有多樣性跟差異性好另外呢下一頁我們環境部卻是用工業製造的同樣的態度來面對農業生產\n包括我們看到了如果是工業的話他有化工毒害可是農業的最多就是空污臭味那麼資本家資本雄厚小農呢你同樣的處罰小農受不了所以在同樣用工業制造的同一個態度制定出來的反清洗法規對付農民其實不是農民所能承受\n反過來我們繼續看往下看工業製造跟農業生產它的衝擊跟傷害工業製造包括人權傷害環境變遷氣候變遷環境破壞這些不可回復的後果但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限接下來我們來看一下下一頁比如說請教一下像蘇丹紅事件人工的添加物比較有危害還是我們農民種的辣椒它的生產再怎麼樣哪一個危害重\n工業當然當然是工業的添加物嚴重嘛對不對我們農民天然的天然的通貨啦在那你不敢他也不會有毒害的問題存在好但是接下來我們往下看農業生產的形態我們各位怎麼因應呢其實我們就不斷強調農業部他當時針對的農產品初期加工在面對食安的時候他成功的得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持農業的初期加工不用適用工廠管理法\n我們農業的初級加工也不用食品安全法因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題部長你同意嗎\n對他基本上是只有農藥的使用的那個問題對所以說同樣的農業生產我們的環境的部分農業所造成的環境問題我們看看怎麼來解決好那往下看但是在今天您的報告口頭報告第10頁當中目前農業的剩餘物資抱歉我一向不接受農業廢棄物的事情思考因為天然長出來的沒有所謂的廢棄物只有放錯地方的資源你同意嗎\n我們本來是要推這個概念是現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念但是還是有另外一股聲音覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這種名稱譬如說在農業這一塊積分這個我們了解但是我希望說你們可以用規模跟數量和它的定性的方式來區隔大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的就是符合你們今天要推的什麼\n支援循環促進法對不對好那麼我們來看一下往下一頁現在我們環境部有訂了一個廢清法你們希望能夠用支援循環促進法來處理那農業部本來已經在食品的部分已經有一個辦法了他現在呢也在訂一個辦法那農業部有在訂一個辦法那我們來看一下接下來下一頁支援循環促進法案即將推出已經預告了沒有還沒有因為\n在溝通階段正好我這個發言我這個質詢即時本次修法當然是由環境部統一全責但是是不是農業部門的生產可以另外有一個專法我希望的就是一個什麼\n農業資源循環促進法就是加個農業為什麼要把農業特徵放的我往下看來我舉例來講我手上的這一個來部長你可以看一下我手上這一個這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂你知道他用什麼做的嗎他用導泡做的啦導泡就是黃豆炸油或者做其他的事情然後留下來導泡導泡他是廢棄是不是一個廢棄物\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n但是這個事業維修他其實上他幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害他如果經過適當的處理他可以做成我們洗澡的香皂同樣道理在很多農業剩餘當中他可能在生產過程當中我們不能送餐桌使用的我們當做什麼當作飼料不能當飼料的當肥料不能當肥料我們當燃料這樣的農業剩餘有什麼環境的破壞我們來看一下這是我一個親身接觸的一個場\n他是用什麼呢他用木質的木纖維就是農業的剩餘當中的木纖維他用來一個高溫裂解產生氣體然後呢他用這個氣體燃燒來發電他的名稱叫做生質能生物質燃氣發電我們早先在二次大戰的時候曾經有一種煤氣車煤氣車不是蒸氣他煤氣是變成煤氣煤氣再去燃燒就是透過引擎去推動有這樣的技術嗎\n好這樣的技術呢他現在遇到一個問題了到底他是屬於廢棄物發電還是農業廢棄物發電還是生殖能發電現在這個業者要什麼狀況他在農忙農產品多的時候他是大量使用農業的剩餘\n但是在農業收穫之後他這個東西減少了他開始去河板工廠搞幫啊材切料啊這些工廠有大量的材切料這些材切料跟他用的農剩的這個剩餘呢其實差不多都是木纖維但是呢這下就來啦\n他要運用的時候農業部不能界定這個盒板工廠的材切料是農剩嘛不能說是農業廢棄物是你們的工廠認定的事業廢棄物嘛他可不可以使用他就不能使用了所以說我們希望最後的結論主席站起來了齁我希望呢環境部能否將農業資源循環在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候將農業的部分可以跟農業部協商另訂一個專法\n我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外這很嚴重不能讓它進來我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進了失業廢棄物來處理最後希望你最後一個承諾協同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案可以嗎好那本題的這個主題就是說農業資源循環比照我們資源循環促進法的方式來立法你願意\n參考嗎?我們共同找農業部來推動?可以啊,各部份分工合作這個是好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝鍾委員,好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.053 --> 00:27.627\n二主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請環境部薛部長請薛部長好中文好欸等一下畫面還沒出來畫面還沒出來\n\n00:29.775 --> 00:50.391\n好部長好部長還記得嗎在去年10月22號我在院會總質詢跟你請教去年你的承諾我請院長指示責成環境部跟農業部呢來參照農產品初期加工廠管理辦法將符合農業剩餘物資在利用的環境稽查法規是不是讓由農業部來盡量的主責你還記得嗎是是記得嗎那時候我的\n\n00:53.453 --> 01:17.104\n沒有錯在我的辦公室也在院會質詢過不過你對我在辦公室跟您請議的部分比較內容深刻我幫你回憶一下我去年在院會上的質詢下一頁他就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異我就不再贅述標準化規格化有生命無生命還有多樣性跟差異性好另外呢下一頁我們環境部卻是用工業製造的同樣的態度來面對農業生產\n\n01:18.365 --> 01:34.802\n包括我們看到了如果是工業的話他有化工毒害可是農業的最多就是空污臭味那麼資本家資本雄厚小農呢你同樣的處罰小農受不了所以在同樣用工業制造的同一個態度制定出來的反清洗法規對付農民其實不是農民所能承受\n\n01:35.342 --> 02:00.161\n反過來我們繼續看往下看工業製造跟農業生產它的衝擊跟傷害工業製造包括人權傷害環境變遷氣候變遷環境破壞這些不可回復的後果但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限接下來我們來看一下下一頁比如說請教一下像蘇丹紅事件人工的添加物比較有危害還是我們農民種的辣椒它的生產再怎麼樣哪一個危害重\n\n02:02.574 --> 02:30.811\n工業當然當然是工業的添加物嚴重嘛對不對我們農民天然的天然的通貨啦在那你不敢他也不會有毒害的問題存在好但是接下來我們往下看農業生產的形態我們各位怎麼因應呢其實我們就不斷強調農業部他當時針對的農產品初期加工在面對食安的時候他成功的得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持農業的初期加工不用適用工廠管理法\n\n02:31.371 --> 02:36.882\n我們農業的初級加工也不用食品安全法因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題部長你同意嗎\n\n02:38.955 --> 03:03.584\n對他基本上是只有農藥的使用的那個問題對所以說同樣的農業生產我們的環境的部分農業所造成的環境問題我們看看怎麼來解決好那往下看但是在今天您的報告口頭報告第10頁當中目前農業的剩餘物資抱歉我一向不接受農業廢棄物的事情思考因為天然長出來的沒有所謂的廢棄物只有放錯地方的資源你同意嗎\n\n03:04.705 --> 03:32.993\n我們本來是要推這個概念是現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念但是還是有另外一股聲音覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這種名稱譬如說在農業這一塊積分這個我們了解但是我希望說你們可以用規模跟數量和它的定性的方式來區隔大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的就是符合你們今天要推的什麼\n\n03:33.733 --> 03:58.959\n支援循環促進法對不對好那麼我們來看一下往下一頁現在我們環境部有訂了一個廢清法你們希望能夠用支援循環促進法來處理那農業部本來已經在食品的部分已經有一個辦法了他現在呢也在訂一個辦法那農業部有在訂一個辦法那我們來看一下接下來下一頁支援循環促進法案即將推出已經預告了沒有還沒有因為\n\n04:01.980 --> 04:14.453\n在溝通階段正好我這個發言我這個質詢即時本次修法當然是由環境部統一全責但是是不是農業部門的生產可以另外有一個專法我希望的就是一個什麼\n\n04:16.616 --> 04:42.348\n農業資源循環促進法就是加個農業為什麼要把農業特徵放的我往下看來我舉例來講我手上的這一個來部長你可以看一下我手上這一個這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂你知道他用什麼做的嗎他用導泡做的啦導泡就是黃豆炸油或者做其他的事情然後留下來導泡導泡他是廢棄是不是一個廢棄物\n\n04:44.093 --> 04:45.315\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n04:58.875 --> 05:22.409\n但是這個事業維修他其實上他幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害他如果經過適當的處理他可以做成我們洗澡的香皂同樣道理在很多農業剩餘當中他可能在生產過程當中我們不能送餐桌使用的我們當做什麼當作飼料不能當飼料的當肥料不能當肥料我們當燃料這樣的農業剩餘有什麼環境的破壞我們來看一下這是我一個親身接觸的一個場\n\n05:23.329 --> 05:31.932\n他是用什麼呢他用木質的木纖維就是農業的剩餘當中的木纖維他用來一個高溫裂解產生氣體然後呢他用這個氣體燃燒來發電他的名稱叫做生質能生物質燃氣發電我們早先在二次大戰的時候曾經有一種煤氣車煤氣車不是蒸氣他煤氣是變成煤氣煤氣再去燃燒就是透過引擎去推動有這樣的技術嗎\n\n05:52.239 --> 05:59.661\n好這樣的技術呢他現在遇到一個問題了到底他是屬於廢棄物發電還是農業廢棄物發電還是生殖能發電現在這個業者要什麼狀況他在農忙農產品多的時候他是大量使用農業的剩餘\n\n06:08.304 --> 06:25.582\n但是在農業收穫之後他這個東西減少了他開始去河板工廠搞幫啊材切料啊這些工廠有大量的材切料這些材切料跟他用的農剩的這個剩餘呢其實差不多都是木纖維但是呢這下就來啦\n\n06:26.323 --> 06:46.049\n他要運用的時候農業部不能界定這個盒板工廠的材切料是農剩嘛不能說是農業廢棄物是你們的工廠認定的事業廢棄物嘛他可不可以使用他就不能使用了所以說我們希望最後的結論主席站起來了齁我希望呢環境部能否將農業資源循環在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候將農業的部分可以跟農業部協商另訂一個專法\n\n06:53.371 --> 07:15.705\n我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外這很嚴重不能讓它進來我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進了失業廢棄物來處理最後希望你最後一個承諾協同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案可以嗎好那本題的這個主題就是說農業資源循環比照我們資源循環促進法的方式來立法你願意\n\n07:16.766 --> 07:21.599\n參考嗎?我們共同找農業部來推動?可以啊,各部份分工合作這個是好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝鍾委員,好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.053,"end":27.627,"text":"二主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請環境部薛部長請薛部長好中文好欸等一下畫面還沒出來畫面還沒出來"},{"start":29.775,"end":50.391,"text":"好部長好部長還記得嗎在去年10月22號我在院會總質詢跟你請教去年你的承諾我請院長指示責成環境部跟農業部呢來參照農產品初期加工廠管理辦法將符合農業剩餘物資在利用的環境稽查法規是不是讓由農業部來盡量的主責你還記得嗎是是記得嗎那時候我的"},{"start":53.453,"end":77.104,"text":"沒有錯在我的辦公室也在院會質詢過不過你對我在辦公室跟您請議的部分比較內容深刻我幫你回憶一下我去年在院會上的質詢下一頁他就說到了農業生產跟工業製造有本質上的這些差異我就不再贅述標準化規格化有生命無生命還有多樣性跟差異性好另外呢下一頁我們環境部卻是用工業製造的同樣的態度來面對農業生產"},{"start":78.365,"end":94.802,"text":"包括我們看到了如果是工業的話他有化工毒害可是農業的最多就是空污臭味那麼資本家資本雄厚小農呢你同樣的處罰小農受不了所以在同樣用工業制造的同一個態度制定出來的反清洗法規對付農民其實不是農民所能承受"},{"start":95.342,"end":120.161,"text":"反過來我們繼續看往下看工業製造跟農業生產它的衝擊跟傷害工業製造包括人權傷害環境變遷氣候變遷環境破壞這些不可回復的後果但是農業生產其實對這些的影響相對有限接下來我們來看一下下一頁比如說請教一下像蘇丹紅事件人工的添加物比較有危害還是我們農民種的辣椒它的生產再怎麼樣哪一個危害重"},{"start":122.574,"end":150.811,"text":"工業當然當然是工業的添加物嚴重嘛對不對我們農民天然的天然的通貨啦在那你不敢他也不會有毒害的問題存在好但是接下來我們往下看農業生產的形態我們各位怎麼因應呢其實我們就不斷強調農業部他當時針對的農產品初期加工在面對食安的時候他成功的得到了環境部跟經濟部的支持農業的初期加工不用適用工廠管理法"},{"start":151.371,"end":156.882,"text":"我們農業的初級加工也不用食品安全法因為這些初級加工沒有食安的問題部長你同意嗎"},{"start":158.955,"end":183.584,"text":"對他基本上是只有農藥的使用的那個問題對所以說同樣的農業生產我們的環境的部分農業所造成的環境問題我們看看怎麼來解決好那往下看但是在今天您的報告口頭報告第10頁當中目前農業的剩餘物資抱歉我一向不接受農業廢棄物的事情思考因為天然長出來的沒有所謂的廢棄物只有放錯地方的資源你同意嗎"},{"start":184.705,"end":212.993,"text":"我們本來是要推這個概念是現在你們還是用農業廢棄物的概念但是還是有另外一股聲音覺得說我們不能把廢棄物這種名稱譬如說在農業這一塊積分這個我們了解但是我希望說你們可以用規模跟數量和它的定性的方式來區隔大多數的農業剩餘物資是可再利用的就是符合你們今天要推的什麼"},{"start":213.733,"end":238.959,"text":"支援循環促進法對不對好那麼我們來看一下往下一頁現在我們環境部有訂了一個廢清法你們希望能夠用支援循環促進法來處理那農業部本來已經在食品的部分已經有一個辦法了他現在呢也在訂一個辦法那農業部有在訂一個辦法那我們來看一下接下來下一頁支援循環促進法案即將推出已經預告了沒有還沒有因為"},{"start":241.98,"end":254.453,"text":"在溝通階段正好我這個發言我這個質詢即時本次修法當然是由環境部統一全責但是是不是農業部門的生產可以另外有一個專法我希望的就是一個什麼"},{"start":256.616,"end":282.348,"text":"農業資源循環促進法就是加個農業為什麼要把農業特徵放的我往下看來我舉例來講我手上的這一個來部長你可以看一下我手上這一個這個看起來好像是很漂亮的香皂你知道他用什麼做的嗎他用導泡做的啦導泡就是黃豆炸油或者做其他的事情然後留下來導泡導泡他是廢棄是不是一個廢棄物"},{"start":284.093,"end":285.315,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":298.875,"end":322.409,"text":"但是這個事業維修他其實上他幾乎沒有什麼對環境的危害他如果經過適當的處理他可以做成我們洗澡的香皂同樣道理在很多農業剩餘當中他可能在生產過程當中我們不能送餐桌使用的我們當做什麼當作飼料不能當飼料的當肥料不能當肥料我們當燃料這樣的農業剩餘有什麼環境的破壞我們來看一下這是我一個親身接觸的一個場"},{"start":323.329,"end":331.932,"text":"他是用什麼呢他用木質的木纖維就是農業的剩餘當中的木纖維他用來一個高溫裂解產生氣體然後呢他用這個氣體燃燒來發電他的名稱叫做生質能生物質燃氣發電我們早先在二次大戰的時候曾經有一種煤氣車煤氣車不是蒸氣他煤氣是變成煤氣煤氣再去燃燒就是透過引擎去推動有這樣的技術嗎"},{"start":352.239,"end":359.661,"text":"好這樣的技術呢他現在遇到一個問題了到底他是屬於廢棄物發電還是農業廢棄物發電還是生殖能發電現在這個業者要什麼狀況他在農忙農產品多的時候他是大量使用農業的剩餘"},{"start":368.304,"end":385.582,"text":"但是在農業收穫之後他這個東西減少了他開始去河板工廠搞幫啊材切料啊這些工廠有大量的材切料這些材切料跟他用的農剩的這個剩餘呢其實差不多都是木纖維但是呢這下就來啦"},{"start":386.323,"end":406.049,"text":"他要運用的時候農業部不能界定這個盒板工廠的材切料是農剩嘛不能說是農業廢棄物是你們的工廠認定的事業廢棄物嘛他可不可以使用他就不能使用了所以說我們希望最後的結論主席站起來了齁我希望呢環境部能否將農業資源循環在你們制定資源循環促進法的時候將農業的部分可以跟農業部協商另訂一個專法"},{"start":413.371,"end":435.705,"text":"我們除了避免工業廢棄物進入農業部門之外這很嚴重不能讓它進來我們也希望農業資源不要全部都打進了失業廢棄物來處理最後希望你最後一個承諾協同農業部評估再生能源使用多重資源的可行方案可以嗎好那本題的這個主題就是說農業資源循環比照我們資源循環促進法的方式來立法你願意"},{"start":436.766,"end":441.599,"text":"參考嗎?我們共同找農業部來推動?可以啊,各部份分工合作這個是好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝鍾委員,好謝謝"}]}}}}