{"id":149942,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149942","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733aff82233c77cde40087ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a69e2b09b0f56ec6345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:40:27 - 09:53:01","影片長度":"00:12:34","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":754,"end_time":"2024-03-18T09:53:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T09:40:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":146,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時40分）好，謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早。前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞？就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情，我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中，有沒有認識很多像社工這樣的第一線基層工作人員？"],["潘部長文忠：有。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是那天晚上我收到非常多社工朋友的電話，甚至還有兒保社工背後的心理師，有兩、三個心理師打電話給我說，他們不知道接下來這個禮拜要怎麼面對這些第一線的兒保社工。於是我們看到東海社工系就發了一封信給系上的同學，當然也是給未來可能想要念社工的同學，因為孩子們的學測剛考完，準備開始填志願了。部長，您身為教育部長，你要不要對這些孩子、這些同學或是在第一線的社工給予一些信心的承諾或者是喊話？"],["潘部長文忠：是，謝謝委員。因為保母虐童的事件，整個社會大家都很心痛、也很震驚了。確實，我有看到那個新聞畫面，在第一時間確實也很震撼，因為我所瞭解我們的社工同仁不只在學校，在地方服務也接觸很多社工夥伴，真的都是衝第一線的，在面對學校、學生，甚至有部分是家庭，當有情形時，其實他們真的是承擔非常多的……"],["陳委員培瑜：應該是說這些兒保社工，尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生，他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能時，其實是這些兒保社工幫教育部在社區接住了這些孩子。所以我才要在這裡拜託部長給予目前或者未來想要繼續從事社工，或是想在這個領域發揮自己的專業、發揮自己專長時，我覺得我們要作為他們的支撐。這件事情後續我們也會協助相關的系所再跟教育部持續保持討論。","當然後來衛福部又提到了關於兒童專責醫生的部分，我相信相關的醫學院……我想部長你也知道兒童已經是很缺醫生的科目了，對不對？我相信教育部在相關的事情上都必須要有所態度跟表示，對嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：是，我想現在因為醫學系很多學生的志願選填，確實所看到的部分……"],["陳委員培瑜：兒科已經不是首選了。"],["潘部長文忠：兒科的部分在醫界、醫院都反映有不足的情形，教育部跟衛福部也在這一方面提出一些因應，尤其是衛福部，他們有提到一些激勵的因素。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我們期待教育部跟衛福部後續必須要在這件事情上，包含剛剛的社工部分，都必須要加強對話。","再來，新北割喉案將在3月21號裁定，我想要問部長，您覺得孩子們不管他之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校，或者是少觀，或者是相關的保護管束機制，你覺得面對這些觸法少年，學校準備好了嗎？。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，現在所提去年12月25號這個令人遺憾的校安事件，其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面盤點校園安全維護以及這些學生的輔導管教。委員提到這個，為什麼我們這次的跨部會，包含跨院會去提出對於學生的犯行或一些偏差的行為，及曝險少年適不適合直接回學校、應不應該安置，其實在這次是一個非常強調的重點。"],["陳委員培瑜：聽起來，應該是說過往我們只要看到類似的新聞事件，確實教育部會連同其他的跨部會趕快提出正面因應的資源跟策略。但是我們都在教育現場待過，我今天必須要殘忍地問部長一個問題，其實我們都準備好了，看似我們都準備好了，但是我們必須要承認在第一線現場，有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素，我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚，我們到底要如何排除這些因素？除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外，但是面對這些校園裡面歧視的氣氛、同儕或是社會的氣氛，還有老師如何看待學生？是不是真的覺得教育部有跟老師站在一起，準備迎接這樣的孩子回到校園？我覺得這件事情應該沒有辦法在今天討論完。但是我務必要從第一線的教學經驗提醒部長，也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會討論這件事情時，我覺得我們不能再逃避面對不利於學生回歸校園的因素，這是非常沉重的提問。我想今天就不再多問，但是要拜託教育部積極面對這件事情。我必須要再次強調，這是殘酷的現實，但如果不去面對這個現實，我們很難想像學校老師會如何看待後續這些孩子們回到校園，或者是教育部給予這些正面的資源跟政策，是不是真的可以落實到第一線的老師、家長跟學生都同時有覺得受到照顧。好，以上。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，確實在這一次討論的情形，不只是剛才跟委員會委員們的報告，我們跟跨院，包含司法院這些單位未來的合作跟機制，司法院也會再由這樣的試辦計畫去擴大有關這些曝險少年非常需要的人力和專業，我想在上源上面真的會做更適切的討論跟判斷。在學校端這一部分，我們除了增加必要的人力之外，其實還要不斷去強化，因為這樣的孩子不是每個都一定造成那種傷害，有些孩子可能比如……"],["陳委員培瑜：基本上校安事件的型態非常多……"],["潘部長文忠：對，它的樣態行為也不是說完完全全一定要隔離於校園，所以我們在中途的過程中，其實是有幾個不同的……"],["陳委員培瑜：我就往下再跟部長討論，但是我要再次強調這個問題非常重要。再來，教育部其實在相關的校安事件統計資料當中，我們看到非常多，其中我們發現在不同學制、不同事件的相關統計，其實教育部相關的報告裡面都有，也可以看得出來教育部有相關的態度。我們看到這個報告是「教育部111年各級學校校園安全事件及災害事件分析報告」，資料是112年12月，也就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的。我們再看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論說：「綜觀本項暴力與偏差事件資料分析發現，高級中等學校的暴力事件與偏差行為通報發生率仍是最高，其次依序為國中及國小」，教育部自己都說了，應該持續探討事件發生的原因跟防治之道。也就是說在整份報告裡面只有看到這麼一段話，是教育部自己知道相關的因應跟防治措施，所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中，除了看到後續很多所謂補破網的動作之外，到底該如何積極防範校安事件一再、一再、一再的發生？我相信具體的策略，不管是做持續探討的研究或是後續專家學者的討論，把孩子們第一線的現場狀況反映出來，就如同我剛剛說的那個問題非常重要。","我還要跟部長談另外一個事情，其實這也是很多第一線的老師，甚至是矯正學校校長跟我們分析的。我們來看相關的研究報告指出，少年犯的非語文測驗跟一般少年沒有顯著差異，可是少年犯的語文理解能力卻比一般少年來得低。也就是他們在抽象推理思考上，可能是因為原生家庭環境的文化資源累積能力不足，導致於孩子去到學校之後對於抽象推理思考能力表現比較不好。","再往下看，第二個，部長你一定知道，在學校第一線現場，因為學術成績不佳，可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤，於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠，離所謂主流學術學習越來越遠。於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現，高峰是15到16歲，往上到23歲。但是有很多第一線老師告訴我們，當5、6年級所謂學術科目開始變難時，很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為，真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足。","他們甚且認為到了後期，不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校，看到這些孩子，其實都有特教的特質在身上。他可能是情緒障礙，可能是閱讀障礙，可能是過動兒的狀況。可是他在小的時候，班上的老師或者是他的家長沒有能力去發現，所以他們把這些孩子歸納為隱形特教。所以我們可以看到矯正學校目前也積極想要提出更多特教服務方案以服務矯正學校的小孩。我這裡用隱性特教，就是拜託教育部是不是後續要積極的規劃跟去理解，目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年，他們是否有沒被看見的特教特質在身上？導致他們在學習上有困難，他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難，於是他們就不得不往另外一個可能可以接受他們的，即所謂黑幫文化去。部長和署長都來自第一線教育基層，我相信一定可以明白我說的這部分，所以有關隱形特教是否可以請部長簡單回應一下？"],["潘部長文忠：是，我跟委員報告，謝謝委員。學習表現確實會影響孩子成就感，甚至後面的學習發展和自我肯定。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，還有他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感及認同。"],["潘部長文忠：所以教育部所提的學習扶助計劃，其實現在已經都是從越小年紀就開始，也比較希望能夠在這上面不要讓孩子在最基礎的學習上，就開始產生委員所說的一直在隱藏著他未來發展的限制，這是第一點，跟委員報告，這也是我認為很必要的，雖然……"],["陳委員培瑜：但是部長，時間有限，我可不可以拜託就是……"],["潘部長文忠：第二個部分我跟委員報告一下……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們如何增加現場教師他們……"],["潘部長文忠：這些犯行可能會跟特教有關，很多研究確實有指出……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，確實已經看出他的傾向了。"],["潘部長文忠：所以委員也知道，在這次修特教法，還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面，為什麼希望能夠更好地去關照，包含近期也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象，我想這些它不是單一一類，它其實是一個綜合啦！所以我想在這幾項的措施，確實教育部在近期的這一些規劃裡面，包含已經成形的計畫，像特教助理員增加人數等等……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們就先不要再講特教助理，我想在後續特教的很多相關子法跟實施辦法當中，我們辦公室會積極地再跟教育部討論，如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子，就是他的家長看不出來，老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來，可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差，這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：不好意思，再給我最後一點點時間。關於中介，剛剛萬美玲委員已經問了，可是我們想要問中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境，就是相關的服務量能、相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法，把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去？再來，其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境，中介教育在聯繫會議議決實施之後，相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作？剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題。","還有就是目前出少觀所到學校端，都只有說得召開相關會議，但是第一線老師告訴我們必要的時候必須要召開聯繫會議，是必要喔！必須！而不是得召開聯繫會議。我相信現場的困境部長跟署長一定知道，這邊我們就做一個快速的提醒，我們之後會再跟教育部持續的討論。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助，為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結，少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後、安置的連結後面，其實他們應該……如果從司法院的報告，那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的約束……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個後續我們會再跟部長討論。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個是關鍵。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，我知道。"],["潘部長文忠：這個如果不連結，像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案，不可能由學校單一處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，單獨承受。","好，最後，關於學輔法的部分，我想要跟部長討論一下，目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不適用學校輔導法，這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要討論，他們畢竟還是未成年的學生，雖然他們在法務司法系統當中，但是其實第一線老師跟校長、主任告訴我們，這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外，我相信這是我們大人要繼續積極努力的事情，好嗎？部長。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長、謝謝署長，謝謝主席。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞代）：謝謝陳培瑜委員，請部長回座。","我們下一位請柯志恩委員、柯召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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332.262, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 332.262, \"end\": 332.322, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 332.322, \"end\": 332.342, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 359.133, \"end\": 385.804, \"text\": \"教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 359.133, \"end\": 359.593, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 359.593, \"end\": 360.974, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 360.974, \"end\": 361.674, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 361.674, \"end\": 361.854, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 361.854, \"end\": 362.214, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 362.214, \"end\": 362.334, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 362.334, \"end\": 362.754, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 749.169, \"end\": 749.289, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 749.289, \"end\": 749.449, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 749.449, \"end\": 749.649, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 749.649, \"end\": 749.749, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 749.749, \"end\": 749.769, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 749.769, \"end\": 749.989, \"score\": 0.576}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 749.989, \"end\": 750.069, \"score\": 0.505}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 750.069, \"end\": 750.089, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 750.089, \"end\": 750.109, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 750.109, \"end\": 750.649, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 750.649, \"end\": 750.889, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 750.889, \"end\": 750.989, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"瑜\", \"start\": 750.989, \"end\": 751.009, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:26,196\n第二號的陳培瑜委員謝謝好謝謝主席那有請部長好部長委員早部長早前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中有沒有認識很多像社工這樣子第一線的基層的工作人員有但是那一天晚上\n\n2\n00:00:26,616 --> 00:00:26,656\n﹚陳培瑜\n\n3\n00:00:43,664 --> 00:00:43,824\n3月18日、20日及21日\n\n4\n00:00:58,928 --> 00:00:58,948\n韓國瑜\n\n5\n00:01:16,707 --> 00:01:16,747\n陳培瑜\n\n6\n00:01:33,056 --> 00:01:56,168\n應該是說這些兒保社工其實尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能的時候其實是這些兒保社工幫我們教育部在社區接住了這些孩子所以我才要在這裡要拜託部長給予目前或者是未來想要繼續從事社工或是想要在這個領域發揮自己的專業\n\n7\n00:01:58,109 --> 00:01:58,289\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n\n8\n00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,603\n因為醫學系出來很多學生的志願選填確實所看到兒科的部分在醫院都有反應有不足的情形那教育部也跟衛福部也在這方面有提出一些因應尤其是衛福部這邊他們在提到有一些激勵的因素\n\n9\n00:02:45,461 --> 00:02:51,365\n教育部及衛福部後續必須在這件事上加強對話新北割喉案在3月21日裁定部長您覺得孩子們不管之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校、少官或相關保護管束的機制你覺得學校準備好了嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:09,114 --> 00:03:37,260\n面對這些輔導少年委員現在所提去年10月25的這個令人遺憾的校園事件其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面的去盤點然後在校園安全維護還有這些學生的輔導管教上那委員提到這個為什麼我們這一次跨部會或跨院會去提出說對於學生是不是他的犯行或有一些偏差的行為暴嫌的少年適不適合直接進回學校\n\n11\n00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:38,240\n陳培瑜議員\n\n12\n00:03:57,825 --> 00:04:15,876\n其實我們都準備好了我們看似我們都準備好了但是我們必須要承認在第一線的現場有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚我們到底要如何排除這些因素我們除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外但是面對這些校園裡面\n\n13\n00:04:17,697 --> 00:04:19,538\n提醒部長也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會在討論這件事情的時候我覺得我們不能在逃避面對的是\n\n14\n00:04:40,228 --> 00:04:40,268\n以上\n\n15\n00:05:07,381 --> 00:05:11,304\n我跟委員報告：確實這次在討論的情形：不只是剛才跟委員會委員們報告：我們跟跨院：包含司法院的這些未來合作跟機制：司法院也會再有這樣的事辦計畫去擴大：有關真的跟這些復選少年非常需要的人力：跟他的專業：這個我想在上演上面：真的會做比較更適切的討論跟判斷：\n\n16\n00:05:32,242 --> 00:05:32,342\n李卓人議員\n\n17\n00:05:59,133 --> 00:06:25,804\n教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論\n\n18\n00:06:28,144 --> 00:06:55,812\n說,縱觀本項暴力跟偏差事件資料分析發現．高級中等學校的暴力事件．跟偏差行為通報發生率．仍然是最高依序是國小跟國中．那教育部自己都說了．應該持續探討事件發生的原因．跟防治之道．也就是說我們在整份報告裡面．只有看到這麼一段話．是教育部自己知道相關的因應．跟防治措施．所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中．我們除了看到後續很多所謂．\n\n19\n00:06:56,272 --> 00:06:56,312\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n\n20\n00:07:15,214 --> 00:07:15,614\n再往下看第二個\n\n21\n00:07:45,835 --> 00:08:03,452\n部長你一定知道在學校第一線的現場因為學術成績的不佳可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠離這個所謂主流學術學習越來越遠於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現高峰是15到16歲往上到23歲但是\n\n22\n00:08:06,195 --> 00:08:25,013\n我們看到第一線很多老師告訴我們當五六年級所謂學術科目開始變難的時候很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足那他們甚且認為到了後期不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校看到這些孩子其實都有特教的\n\n23\n00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:26,280\n﹚陳培瑜\n\n24\n00:08:45,842 --> 00:09:02,234\n所以我這裡用一個隱性特教的部分就是拜託教育部是不是後續我們要積極的規劃跟去理解目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年他們是不是有沒有被看見的特教特質在身上導致於他們在學習上有困難他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難\n\n25\n00:09:02,774 --> 00:09:03,354\n謝謝委員我想在學習表現這個確實會去影響孩子成就感\n\n26\n00:09:22,421 --> 00:09:23,682\n以及他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感和認同\n\n27\n00:09:47,073 --> 00:09:53,656\n在特教法這次的修還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面為什麼希望能夠更好的去關照包括進級也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象\n\n28\n00:10:13,444 --> 00:10:13,785\n我們先不要再講特交助理\n\n29\n00:10:28,686 --> 00:10:47,993\n在後續特教的很多相關執法跟實施辦法當中我們辦公室會積極再跟教育部討論如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子就是他的家長看不出來老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注不好意思再給我最後一點點時間\n\n30\n00:10:49,013 --> 00:11:17,297\n就是關於這個中介剛剛那個萬美玲委員已經問了可是我們想要問這個中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境就是相關的服務量能相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去再來這個中介教育其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境中介教育在聯繫會議一決實施之後相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題還有就是目前校官所出到學校端\n\n31\n00:11:17,517 --> 00:11:17,737\n陳培瑜\n\n32\n00:11:35,781 --> 00:11:56,598\n為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結那個少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後安置的連結後面其實他們應該如果從司法院的報告那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的規則這個是關鍵這個如果不連結像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案不可能由學校單一處理\n\n33\n00:12:05,305 --> 00:12:31,009\n好那最後一個就是關於學輔法的部分我想要跟部長討論一下目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不是用學校輔導法這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要談論他們畢竟還是未成年的學生雖然他們在法務司法院的系統當中但是其實第一線老師跟校長主任告訴我們這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外我相信這是我們大人要繼續努力的事情好嗎部長好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席好謝謝陳培瑜\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t26196\t第二號的陳培瑜委員謝謝好 謝謝主席那有請部長好 部長委員早部長早前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中有沒有認識很多像社工這樣子第一線的基層的工作人員有但是那一天晚上\n26616\t26656\t﹚陳培瑜\n43664\t43824\t3月18日、20日及21日\n58928\t58948\t韓國瑜\n76707\t76747\t陳培瑜\n93056\t116168\t應該是說這些兒保社工其實尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能的時候其實是這些兒保社工幫我們教育部在社區接住了這些孩子所以我才要在這裡要拜託部長給予目前或者是未來想要繼續從事社工或是想要在這個領域發揮自己的專業\n118109\t118289\t﹚陳培瑜﹚\n143200\t146603\t因為醫學系出來很多學生的志願選填確實所看到兒科的部分在醫院都有反應有不足的情形那教育部也跟衛福部也在這方面有提出一些因應尤其是衛福部這邊他們在提到有一些激勵的因素\n165461\t171365\t教育部及衛福部後續必須在這件事上加強對話新北割喉案在3月21日裁定部長您覺得孩子們不管之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校、少官或相關保護管束的機制你覺得學校準備好了嗎?\n189114\t217260\t面對這些輔導少年委員現在所提去年10月25的這個令人遺憾的校園事件其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面的去盤點然後在校園安全維護還有這些學生的輔導管教上那委員提到這個為什麼我們這一次跨部會或跨院會去提出說對於學生是不是他的犯行或有一些偏差的行為暴嫌的少年適不適合直接進回學校\n218200\t218240\t陳培瑜議員\n237825\t255876\t其實我們都準備好了我們看似我們都準備好了但是我們必須要承認在第一線的現場有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚我們到底要如何排除這些因素我們除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外但是面對這些校園裡面\n257697\t259538\t提醒部長也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會在討論這件事情的時候我覺得我們不能在逃避面對的是\n280228\t280268\t以上\n307381\t311304\t我跟委員報告：確實這次在討論的情形：不只是剛才跟委員會委員們報告：我們跟跨院：包含司法院的這些未來合作跟機制：司法院也會再有這樣的事辦計畫去擴大：有關真的跟這些復選少年非常需要的人力：跟他的專業：這個我想在上演上面：真的會做比較更適切的討論跟判斷：\n332242\t332342\t李卓人議員\n359133\t385804\t教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論\n388144\t415812\t說,縱觀本項暴力跟偏差事件資料分析發現．高級中等學校的暴力事件．跟偏差行為通報發生率．仍然是最高依序是國小跟國中．那教育部自己都說了．應該持續探討事件發生的原因．跟防治之道．也就是說我們在整份報告裡面．只有看到這麼一段話．是教育部自己知道相關的因應．跟防治措施．所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中．我們除了看到後續很多所謂．\n416272\t416312\t﹚陳培瑜﹚\n435214\t435614\t再往下看第二個\n465835\t483452\t部長你一定知道在學校第一線的現場因為學術成績的不佳可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠離這個所謂主流學術學習越來越遠於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現高峰是15到16歲往上到23歲但是\n486195\t505013\t我們看到第一線很多老師告訴我們當五六年級所謂學術科目開始變難的時候很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足那他們甚且認為到了後期不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校看到這些孩子其實都有特教的\n506240\t506280\t﹚陳培瑜\n525842\t542234\t所以我這裡用一個隱性特教的部分就是拜託教育部是不是後續我們要積極的規劃跟去理解目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年他們是不是有沒有被看見的特教特質在身上導致於他們在學習上有困難他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難\n542774\t543354\t謝謝委員我想在學習表現這個確實會去影響孩子成就感\n562421\t563682\t以及他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感和認同\n587073\t593656\t在特教法這次的修還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面為什麼希望能夠更好的去關照包括進級也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象\n613444\t613785\t我們先不要再講特交助理\n628686\t647993\t在後續特教的很多相關執法跟實施辦法當中我們辦公室會積極再跟教育部討論如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子就是他的家長看不出來老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注不好意思再給我最後一點點時間\n649013\t677297\t就是關於這個中介剛剛那個萬美玲委員已經問了可是我們想要問這個中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境就是相關的服務量能相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去再來這個中介教育其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境中介教育在聯繫會議一決實施之後相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題還有就是目前校官所出到學校端\n677517\t677737\t陳培瑜\n695781\t716598\t為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結那個少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後安置的連結後面其實他們應該如果從司法院的報告那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的規則這個是關鍵這個如果不連結像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案不可能由學校單一處理\n725305\t751009\t好 那最後一個就是關於學輔法的部分我想要跟部長討論一下目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不是用學校輔導法這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要談論他們畢竟還是未成年的學生雖然他們在法務司法院的系統當中但是其實第一線老師跟校長主任告訴我們這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外我相信這是我們大人要繼續努力的事情好嗎 部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培瑜\n","txt":"第二號的陳培瑜委員謝謝好 謝謝主席那有請部長好 部長委員早部長早前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中有沒有認識很多像社工這樣子第一線的基層的工作人員有但是那一天晚上\n﹚陳培瑜\n3月18日、20日及21日\n韓國瑜\n陳培瑜\n應該是說這些兒保社工其實尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能的時候其實是這些兒保社工幫我們教育部在社區接住了這些孩子所以我才要在這裡要拜託部長給予目前或者是未來想要繼續從事社工或是想要在這個領域發揮自己的專業\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n因為醫學系出來很多學生的志願選填確實所看到兒科的部分在醫院都有反應有不足的情形那教育部也跟衛福部也在這方面有提出一些因應尤其是衛福部這邊他們在提到有一些激勵的因素\n教育部及衛福部後續必須在這件事上加強對話新北割喉案在3月21日裁定部長您覺得孩子們不管之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校、少官或相關保護管束的機制你覺得學校準備好了嗎?\n面對這些輔導少年委員現在所提去年10月25的這個令人遺憾的校園事件其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面的去盤點然後在校園安全維護還有這些學生的輔導管教上那委員提到這個為什麼我們這一次跨部會或跨院會去提出說對於學生是不是他的犯行或有一些偏差的行為暴嫌的少年適不適合直接進回學校\n陳培瑜議員\n其實我們都準備好了我們看似我們都準備好了但是我們必須要承認在第一線的現場有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚我們到底要如何排除這些因素我們除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外但是面對這些校園裡面\n提醒部長也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會在討論這件事情的時候我覺得我們不能在逃避面對的是\n以上\n我跟委員報告：確實這次在討論的情形：不只是剛才跟委員會委員們報告：我們跟跨院：包含司法院的這些未來合作跟機制：司法院也會再有這樣的事辦計畫去擴大：有關真的跟這些復選少年非常需要的人力：跟他的專業：這個我想在上演上面：真的會做比較更適切的討論跟判斷：\n李卓人議員\n教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論\n說,縱觀本項暴力跟偏差事件資料分析發現．高級中等學校的暴力事件．跟偏差行為通報發生率．仍然是最高依序是國小跟國中．那教育部自己都說了．應該持續探討事件發生的原因．跟防治之道．也就是說我們在整份報告裡面．只有看到這麼一段話．是教育部自己知道相關的因應．跟防治措施．所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中．我們除了看到後續很多所謂．\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n再往下看第二個\n部長你一定知道在學校第一線的現場因為學術成績的不佳可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠離這個所謂主流學術學習越來越遠於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現高峰是15到16歲往上到23歲但是\n我們看到第一線很多老師告訴我們當五六年級所謂學術科目開始變難的時候很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足那他們甚且認為到了後期不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校看到這些孩子其實都有特教的\n﹚陳培瑜\n所以我這裡用一個隱性特教的部分就是拜託教育部是不是後續我們要積極的規劃跟去理解目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年他們是不是有沒有被看見的特教特質在身上導致於他們在學習上有困難他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難\n謝謝委員我想在學習表現這個確實會去影響孩子成就感\n以及他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感和認同\n在特教法這次的修還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面為什麼希望能夠更好的去關照包括進級也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象\n我們先不要再講特交助理\n在後續特教的很多相關執法跟實施辦法當中我們辦公室會積極再跟教育部討論如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子就是他的家長看不出來老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注不好意思再給我最後一點點時間\n就是關於這個中介剛剛那個萬美玲委員已經問了可是我們想要問這個中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境就是相關的服務量能相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去再來這個中介教育其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境中介教育在聯繫會議一決實施之後相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題還有就是目前校官所出到學校端\n陳培瑜\n為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結那個少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後安置的連結後面其實他們應該如果從司法院的報告那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的規則這個是關鍵這個如果不連結像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案不可能由學校單一處理\n好 那最後一個就是關於學輔法的部分我想要跟部長討論一下目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不是用學校輔導法這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要談論他們畢竟還是未成年的學生雖然他們在法務司法院的系統當中但是其實第一線老師跟校長主任告訴我們這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外我相信這是我們大人要繼續努力的事情好嗎 部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培瑜\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:26.196\n第二號的陳培瑜委員謝謝好謝謝主席那有請部長好部長委員早部長早前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中有沒有認識很多像社工這樣子第一線的基層的工作人員有但是那一天晚上\n\n00:26.616 --> 00:26.656\n﹚陳培瑜\n\n00:43.664 --> 00:43.824\n3月18日、20日及21日\n\n00:58.928 --> 00:58.948\n韓國瑜\n\n01:16.707 --> 01:16.747\n陳培瑜\n\n01:33.056 --> 01:56.168\n應該是說這些兒保社工其實尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能的時候其實是這些兒保社工幫我們教育部在社區接住了這些孩子所以我才要在這裡要拜託部長給予目前或者是未來想要繼續從事社工或是想要在這個領域發揮自己的專業\n\n01:58.109 --> 01:58.289\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n\n02:23.200 --> 02:26.603\n因為醫學系出來很多學生的志願選填確實所看到兒科的部分在醫院都有反應有不足的情形那教育部也跟衛福部也在這方面有提出一些因應尤其是衛福部這邊他們在提到有一些激勵的因素\n\n02:45.461 --> 02:51.365\n教育部及衛福部後續必須在這件事上加強對話新北割喉案在3月21日裁定部長您覺得孩子們不管之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校、少官或相關保護管束的機制你覺得學校準備好了嗎?\n\n03:09.114 --> 03:37.260\n面對這些輔導少年委員現在所提去年10月25的這個令人遺憾的校園事件其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面的去盤點然後在校園安全維護還有這些學生的輔導管教上那委員提到這個為什麼我們這一次跨部會或跨院會去提出說對於學生是不是他的犯行或有一些偏差的行為暴嫌的少年適不適合直接進回學校\n\n03:38.200 --> 03:38.240\n陳培瑜議員\n\n03:57.825 --> 04:15.876\n其實我們都準備好了我們看似我們都準備好了但是我們必須要承認在第一線的現場有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚我們到底要如何排除這些因素我們除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外但是面對這些校園裡面\n\n04:17.697 --> 04:19.538\n提醒部長也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會在討論這件事情的時候我覺得我們不能在逃避面對的是\n\n04:40.228 --> 04:40.268\n以上\n\n05:07.381 --> 05:11.304\n我跟委員報告：確實這次在討論的情形：不只是剛才跟委員會委員們報告：我們跟跨院：包含司法院的這些未來合作跟機制：司法院也會再有這樣的事辦計畫去擴大：有關真的跟這些復選少年非常需要的人力：跟他的專業：這個我想在上演上面：真的會做比較更適切的討論跟判斷：\n\n05:32.242 --> 05:32.342\n李卓人議員\n\n05:59.133 --> 06:25.804\n教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論\n\n06:28.144 --> 06:55.812\n說,縱觀本項暴力跟偏差事件資料分析發現．高級中等學校的暴力事件．跟偏差行為通報發生率．仍然是最高依序是國小跟國中．那教育部自己都說了．應該持續探討事件發生的原因．跟防治之道．也就是說我們在整份報告裡面．只有看到這麼一段話．是教育部自己知道相關的因應．跟防治措施．所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中．我們除了看到後續很多所謂．\n\n06:56.272 --> 06:56.312\n﹚陳培瑜﹚\n\n07:15.214 --> 07:15.614\n再往下看第二個\n\n07:45.835 --> 08:03.452\n部長你一定知道在學校第一線的現場因為學術成績的不佳可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠離這個所謂主流學術學習越來越遠於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現高峰是15到16歲往上到23歲但是\n\n08:06.195 --> 08:25.013\n我們看到第一線很多老師告訴我們當五六年級所謂學術科目開始變難的時候很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足那他們甚且認為到了後期不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校看到這些孩子其實都有特教的\n\n08:26.240 --> 08:26.280\n﹚陳培瑜\n\n08:45.842 --> 09:02.234\n所以我這裡用一個隱性特教的部分就是拜託教育部是不是後續我們要積極的規劃跟去理解目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年他們是不是有沒有被看見的特教特質在身上導致於他們在學習上有困難他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難\n\n09:02.774 --> 09:03.354\n謝謝委員我想在學習表現這個確實會去影響孩子成就感\n\n09:22.421 --> 09:23.682\n以及他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感和認同\n\n09:47.073 --> 09:53.656\n在特教法這次的修還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面為什麼希望能夠更好的去關照包括進級也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象\n\n10:13.444 --> 10:13.785\n我們先不要再講特交助理\n\n10:28.686 --> 10:47.993\n在後續特教的很多相關執法跟實施辦法當中我們辦公室會積極再跟教育部討論如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子就是他的家長看不出來老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注不好意思再給我最後一點點時間\n\n10:49.013 --> 11:17.297\n就是關於這個中介剛剛那個萬美玲委員已經問了可是我們想要問這個中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境就是相關的服務量能相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去再來這個中介教育其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境中介教育在聯繫會議一決實施之後相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題還有就是目前校官所出到學校端\n\n11:17.517 --> 11:17.737\n陳培瑜\n\n11:35.781 --> 11:56.598\n為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結那個少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後安置的連結後面其實他們應該如果從司法院的報告那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的規則這個是關鍵這個如果不連結像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案不可能由學校單一處理\n\n12:05.305 --> 12:31.009\n好那最後一個就是關於學輔法的部分我想要跟部長討論一下目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不是用學校輔導法這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要談論他們畢竟還是未成年的學生雖然他們在法務司法院的系統當中但是其實第一線老師跟校長主任告訴我們這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外我相信這是我們大人要繼續努力的事情好嗎部長好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席好謝謝陳培瑜\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":26.196,"text":"第二號的陳培瑜委員謝謝好 謝謝主席那有請部長好 部長委員早部長早前兩天不知道部長晚上有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個社工被上手銬這件事情我不知道部長過去您的工作經驗當中有沒有認識很多像社工這樣子第一線的基層的工作人員有但是那一天晚上"},{"start":26.616,"end":26.656,"text":"﹚陳培瑜"},{"start":43.664,"end":43.824,"text":"3月18日、20日及21日"},{"start":58.928,"end":58.948,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":76.707,"end":76.747,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":93.056,"end":116.168,"text":"應該是說這些兒保社工其實尤其幫忙承擔了教育部在照顧的國小學生、國中學生、高中學生他們的原生家庭或是社區環境失去功能的時候其實是這些兒保社工幫我們教育部在社區接住了這些孩子所以我才要在這裡要拜託部長給予目前或者是未來想要繼續從事社工或是想要在這個領域發揮自己的專業"},{"start":118.109,"end":118.289,"text":"﹚陳培瑜﹚"},{"start":143.2,"end":146.603,"text":"因為醫學系出來很多學生的志願選填確實所看到兒科的部分在醫院都有反應有不足的情形那教育部也跟衛福部也在這方面有提出一些因應尤其是衛福部這邊他們在提到有一些激勵的因素"},{"start":165.461,"end":171.365,"text":"教育部及衛福部後續必須在這件事上加強對話新北割喉案在3月21日裁定部長您覺得孩子們不管之後的判定到底是要送到矯正學校、少官或相關保護管束的機制你覺得學校準備好了嗎?"},{"start":189.114,"end":217.26,"text":"面對這些輔導少年委員現在所提去年10月25的這個令人遺憾的校園事件其實讓我們也重新有機會更全面的去盤點然後在校園安全維護還有這些學生的輔導管教上那委員提到這個為什麼我們這一次跨部會或跨院會去提出說對於學生是不是他的犯行或有一些偏差的行為暴嫌的少年適不適合直接進回學校"},{"start":218.2,"end":218.24,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":237.825,"end":255.876,"text":"其實我們都準備好了我們看似我們都準備好了但是我們必須要承認在第一線的現場有非常多不利於學生回歸校園的因素我想部長你心裡應該非常明白跟清楚我們到底要如何排除這些因素我們除了正面做非常多的支持跟資源之外但是面對這些校園裡面"},{"start":257.697,"end":259.538,"text":"提醒部長也要拜託教育部在協同跨部會在討論這件事情的時候我覺得我們不能在逃避面對的是"},{"start":280.228,"end":280.268,"text":"以上"},{"start":307.381,"end":311.304,"text":"我跟委員報告：確實這次在討論的情形：不只是剛才跟委員會委員們報告：我們跟跨院：包含司法院的這些未來合作跟機制：司法院也會再有這樣的事辦計畫去擴大：有關真的跟這些復選少年非常需要的人力：跟他的專業：這個我想在上演上面：真的會做比較更適切的討論跟判斷："},{"start":332.242,"end":332.342,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":359.133,"end":385.804,"text":"教育部在相關的校園暴、校案事件統計當中資料我們看到非常多其中我們發現在不同的學制不同的事件相關的統計其實教育部在相關的報告裡面都有也是可以看得出來教育部是有相關的態度我們看到這個報告是111年各級學校的校案事件在駭根分析報告資料是112年的12月1日就是每一年年底才能統計前一年的嘛那我們在看到這個報告裡面教育部自己有個結論"},{"start":388.144,"end":415.812,"text":"說,縱觀本項暴力跟偏差事件資料分析發現．高級中等學校的暴力事件．跟偏差行為通報發生率．仍然是最高依序是國小跟國中．那教育部自己都說了．應該持續探討事件發生的原因．跟防治之道．也就是說我們在整份報告裡面．只有看到這麼一段話．是教育部自己知道相關的因應．跟防治措施．所以我們也希望在今天所有的業務報告當中．我們除了看到後續很多所謂．"},{"start":416.272,"end":416.312,"text":"﹚陳培瑜﹚"},{"start":435.214,"end":435.614,"text":"再往下看第二個"},{"start":465.835,"end":483.452,"text":"部長你一定知道在學校第一線的現場因為學術成績的不佳可能導致某些老師或是同學會在這些孩子身上貼標籤於是孩子可能就走得越來越遠離這個所謂主流學術學習越來越遠於是我們就看到犯罪跟偏差行為可能就會開始出現高峰是15到16歲往上到23歲但是"},{"start":486.195,"end":505.013,"text":"我們看到第一線很多老師告訴我們當五六年級所謂學術科目開始變難的時候很多孩子就開始表現出偏差行為真的很大一部分是來自於家庭資源的不足那他們甚且認為到了後期不管是從司法端、法務部或者是矯正學校看到這些孩子其實都有特教的"},{"start":506.24,"end":506.28,"text":"﹚陳培瑜"},{"start":525.842,"end":542.234,"text":"所以我這裡用一個隱性特教的部分就是拜託教育部是不是後續我們要積極的規劃跟去理解目前所謂這些偏差行為的少年他們是不是有沒有被看見的特教特質在身上導致於他們在學習上有困難他們在表現主流學習的科目上也有困難"},{"start":542.774,"end":543.354,"text":"謝謝委員我想在學習表現這個確實會去影響孩子成就感"},{"start":562.421,"end":563.682,"text":"以及他對這整個學校文化的歸屬感和認同"},{"start":587.073,"end":593.656,"text":"在特教法這次的修還有我們所要提供更多特教的資源上面為什麼希望能夠更好的去關照包括進級也有部分特教的孩子因為情緒失控去打老師等等的這些現象"},{"start":613.444,"end":613.785,"text":"我們先不要再講特交助理"},{"start":628.686,"end":647.993,"text":"在後續特教的很多相關執法跟實施辦法當中我們辦公室會積極再跟教育部討論如何幫助這群所謂隱形特教的孩子就是他的家長看不出來老師在繁忙的教學工作當中也看不出來可能就只有看到孩子外在的行為偏差這個部分也要拜託教育部持續跟我們一起關注不好意思再給我最後一點點時間"},{"start":649.013,"end":677.297,"text":"就是關於這個中介剛剛那個萬美玲委員已經問了可是我們想要問這個中介基地目前我們看到最大的困境就是相關的服務量能相關的專業人員是不是都可以入法把相關這些該配置的東西都配置進去再來這個中介教育其實有現場的老師告訴我們另外一個困境中介教育在聯繫會議一決實施之後相關控管的機制要如何建立跟運作剛剛萬美玲委員問了類似的問題還有就是目前校官所出到學校端"},{"start":677.517,"end":677.737,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":695.781,"end":716.598,"text":"為什麼這次不是只有教育體系、學校體系在協助為什麼能夠跟司法院有做這個連結那個少保官、少調官其實在這個案子裁決後安置的連結後面其實他們應該如果從司法院的報告那是一個非常重要一道還有強制的規則這個是關鍵這個如果不連結像司法院所提有這些高風險的個案不可能由學校單一處理"},{"start":725.305,"end":751.009,"text":"好 那最後一個就是關於學輔法的部分我想要跟部長討論一下目前矯正學校的孩子他們是不是用學校輔導法這個部分我覺得後續我們應該會有很多時間跟機會必須要談論他們畢竟還是未成年的學生雖然他們在法務司法院的系統當中但是其實第一線老師跟校長主任告訴我們這些孩子不能被排除在學輔法以外我相信這是我們大人要繼續努力的事情好嗎 部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培瑜"}]}}}}