{"id":149947,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149947","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a1ba7a5a2d6decc7187ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a6f1f56eb5c34a23a55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:53:08 - 10:06:48","影片長度":"00:13:40","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":820,"end_time":"2024-03-18T10:06:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T09:53:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":193,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時53分）謝謝主席。我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院家事廳的廳長、法務部的代表，還有內政部刑事警察局的副局長，請各位，好不好？"],["主席：好，請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長。"],["潘部長文忠：召委好。"],["柯委員志恩：非常謝謝各位，為什麼請這麼多人過來？我想我們大家都非常關切所謂的校園安全，我覺得今天真是一個blue Monday，為什麼？8樓在討論受虐兒，然後我們在1樓討論校園暴力的事件。一個孩子在我們臺灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思，我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話，明日就會變成年犯。所以剛剛大家一直不斷在討論漏接，不希望漏接而發生事情，我們今天先來討論一下如何來對接？還有誰該要來承接？","我們先來看一下下面的數據。我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有一萬多，這是數據顯示，2022年統計，受理1萬4,316人，但是只有5,330人是交付保護管束，大概只有占37%。而且依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的少輔會工作報告，說實在的，在2023年7月到11月，少輔會只收到541案，而且開案輔導只有302案。保護的這麼多，然後受理的這麼多，然後再加上你們所承接的，我想請問各位，這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束？然後去到哪裡去？有很多社工還來……我簡單的問各位一句，你們這些單位，來自不同的單位，你們彼此熟嗎？你們彼此有對接嗎？這才是我要的問題，好不好？請各位很快時間告訴我一下。"],["潘部長文忠：是，跟委員報告，因為教育部是學校體系，確實我們跟警政單位、衛福單位，過往在這一方面是比較有定期、長期的這樣一個會議，而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用，跟警政單位之間的連結非常……"],["柯委員志恩：好，部長，沒有問題，你可以有很多的說法，我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告，每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多妥善的處理。","我們就直接問刑事局的副局長好了。目前來說，我們修了少年事件處理法、我們成立了少輔會，欸！少輔會沒人、沒錢、沒資源，位階又很低，有些縣市的少輔會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊，請問一下，你們少年隊這麼神嗎？處理這麼多事？你有沒有看到那個法規裡面，這麼多的事情？我想請問一下警政署，你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事？"],["林副局長信雄：謝謝委員的關心，有關少輔會的部分，目前從110年……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，我現在只問少輔會要承接這麼多的事情，有些縣市單位根本沒有成立，把它直接丟到你們警政署下面的一個少年隊，有沒有這種事？有嘛？"],["林副局長信雄：目前我們少輔會的人力，除了運用社安網的人力來增加，以及各縣市政府我們從110年到現在已經增加260名的社工……"],["柯委員志恩：夠嗎？"],["林副局長信雄：當然我們希望繼續……"],["柯委員志恩：現在就是孩子越生越少，少年犯是越來越多，這就是我們所要問的問題，我剛剛只問了不要漏接，但是對接的問題在哪裡？連在8樓被我們質詢的衛福部都說，少輔會的專案對接是有落差的，案量非常的低，而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供偏差行為的個案輔導，還有很多縣市根本拒絕接受所謂偏差輔導的個案，有沒有這種事情？"],["林副局長信雄：報告委員……"],["柯委員志恩：有這種事情的話，司法院該怎麼樣來處理？你成立這麼多委員會，卻沒有辦法對接，這要怎麼來處理？"],["林副局長信雄：報告委員，就我所知，目前地方縣市的少輔會並沒有拒絕相關的輔導工作，在增加人力上，我們目前應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年觀護所他們……"],["柯委員志恩：你們沒有拒絕，你們卻可能把這東西丟到別的地方去，然後我只問嘛！少輔會要承接這麼多的狀況，你們有能力嗎？你們少年隊就是抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯，還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導社工，還要包括金融機關等等，有辦法承接嗎？誠實講，不要給我成立一個機構，但是裡面東西就好像神辦案一樣，什麼都可以來，那是不可能的，對不對？"],["林副局長信雄：我們儘量努力。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們的位階這麼低，如果位階還是這麼低的話，少輔會如果位階這麼低的話，還是沒有辦法解決所有的問題，謝謝你的回應。","接下來，我還是要提出下面一個問題，目前司法院的報告裡面說，這個割頸案是少年法院調查保護室的人力不足，我發現每一次只要一出事都是說缺人力，但是法院的人力不足跟曝險少年回歸校園，這是兩碼的事情。我們先看下面的數據，對我個人來說，彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大原因，我們來看看嘛！根據你們的資料顯示，目前高風險的案件還有966件，這是少年法庭告訴我們的。我想請問部長，你知道966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎？如果你們彼此熟，彼此都可以互相來做對接，你知道這些有多少在學校嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分我要坦白說，數據上我們沒辦法掌握……"],["柯委員志恩：還有警政署也出來講一下話，少年嫌疑犯已經有1萬7,900人，比上一年還增加12.94%，在這麼多的狀況當中，你們彼此之間沒有對接，然後一發生事情，你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多少時間、最快時間回到學校。我只請問，真的只有回到學校嗎？真的只通知學校嗎？這些人適合回學校嗎？所以這邊裡面有太多的問題存在了，很多人不適合學校的話……","這966件是高風險案，還有非常多的黑數。我剛特別提到了，你看我都不想放這些影片，如果照你剛剛這樣的說法，教育部的校安系統顯示，剛剛把那個數據拿出來，112年高中職以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是兩萬七千多件，比110年還多增加一萬多件，多增加了一萬多件！你如果把它平均起來，平均1天校園的暴力事件是73件，部長你有沒有看到？而且你如果看到3月5號這件事情，這個孩子被呼了二十幾個巴掌，其他的學生就這樣看著他！我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件，竟然可以讓大家都很漠然看著。我不願放的原因是因為我看了會傷心，還有脫衣服、毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛，部長，你看到這些狀況，心裡感覺到底是怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，委員剛才談到112年跟111年的數據，這也是過去我們一直在強調的，不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到怎樣的情形卻不被告知，所以我們對通報是非常嚴格的要求。"],["柯委員志恩：我懂，是。"],["潘部長文忠：甚至改善霸凌專線，那個通報數從過去大概三千、五千多件到八千多件，就是希望……"],["柯委員志恩：你現在是告訴我，因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來，所以數字才這麼多？"],["潘部長文忠：應該這樣子說，這個通報數之後我們才說學校應該要進一步的確認，甚至如果通報數……像委員所提到的這個案子我一定會去追，不只是對學校。確實屬實的，我一定要求國教署跟地方政府，不要讓學校對這個事情就不了了之。"],["柯委員志恩：還有一個非常簡單的問題，我們隨便舉個例子來說好了，行為偏差的觸法少年離開了少年觀護所或矯正學校，我剛剛所提到的，誰來承接？你知道「孩想陪你長大」聯盟家長的訴求，很多觸法少年進到少觀所待1到3個月，小孩跟你說：進去也沒關係啊，3個月就出來了，他怕什麼？所以出來之前到底有沒有一個完整的評估再把他放出來，到底有沒有？而且根據我們的數據，我想矯正署應該可以出來說一下，少年從矯正學校出來之後，1年裡面大概有五成的學生，會有再犯刑事案件這樣的一個比例，1年有五成耶！這些孩子出來，然後我們教育部各單位只告訴學校，我會以最快時間把他放回學校，然後通知學校。那我要問，學校有這麼多樣的狀況，而且這些矯正的孩子後面需要給他輔導，可是他的再犯率這麼高，甚至有一個矯正學校的心理諮商輔導師告訴我，還有一個學生放出去之後，兩、三個月就自殺死掉，因為他一出去又被追債，而他自己又不想再犯案，他沒有選擇就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件，怎麼辦？這怎麼辦？所以我一直強調矯正教育如果沒有做好，整個問題都會非常的嚴重，這是一個很大的問題。","接下來，我就要問一下，為什麼少年犯會再犯？還有，他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣狀況？你看少觀所3個月之內就放出來，那個割頸案的郭姓少年就是從少觀所出來，把他放到學校，再把他轉校，然後造成這種悲劇。所以有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少觀所的時候，給他更完整的一個評估，有沒有辦法做到這一點？他不見得要放回學校啊？還有沒有其他的地方可以承接？我們不要漏接，但是你們又沒有對接，我們誰來承接？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，有關畫面上是郭姓少年，他在我們少觀所是去年3月進……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，署長，你不要再話說從前，從盤古開天講起，沒時間了啦！你只要告訴我以後怎麼來承接？"],["周署長輝煌：我們原則上少矯校，比如說有逆境少年，我們會提早3個月來處理，然後……"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝你，我最後只問部長一個問題，給我1分鐘。部長，因為這裡面發生太多的問題，很多的家長……我知道你們已經放寬非常多，我只問一件事情，如果今天部長是潘老師，你變成潘老師，潘文忠老師如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話，我請問潘老師怎麼來做處理？"],["潘部長文忠：跟召委報告，從這一次這個事件，我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討，也有很多來自學校第一線的意見。為什麼會在安全檢查上面，會對有傷害傾向的特定學生進行安全檢查，甚至這些作業流程……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，我知道你解釋了非常多，我只問潘老師怎麼樣處理？當A同學跟潘老師說B同學有彈簧刀的時候，你怎麼處理？你的SOP是什麼？這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊！"],["潘部長文忠：我剛剛跟委員報告，為什麼很密集的討論跟公布事項，就是為了要處理這些相關的流程。"],["柯委員志恩：那你怎麼處理？你如果回歸到過去潘老師的身分，怎麼來處理這個狀況？"],["潘部長文忠：學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業，當發生這個事情，不要讓老師單打獨鬥，這也是危險啦！你原來在進行這件事情的時候，如果這個必要去做……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要……因為我時間到了，我要提醒部長，目前為止，為什麼發生事情老師都不太敢去介入處理？因為老師現在處理是用一個模稜兩可的輔導管教辦法，但是他萬一處理不當的話，學生或家長可以用非常明確的刑法或是民法來告老師，這就是目前我們老師的困境，一個是模稜兩可，一個是明確，你要老師怎麼辦？"],["潘部長文忠：召委，剛才提到緊急的處置，學校說實在一定要常態做這方面的演練跟準備啦！不是說我在賭運氣，這個跟委員報告。第二個，在這次的注意事項，其實對於老師阻卻違法的討論，也做出很明確的規定。當碰到這種非立即處置不可的狀況時，這方面我們就明確地說，這不能歸責於老師，也應該要……不會去做違法的處置。"],["柯委員志恩：所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題，潘部長你就會發現身為老師，當變成這個角色的時候，其實是處在一個非常為難的狀況。如果剛剛被報的B同學，老師去查了卻沒有，到時候家長是不是要反過來告老師？這就是目前第一線老師最大的一個問題。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，如果查不到也不能歸責老師跟學校。過去現場……"],["柯委員志恩：我只希望告訴你，這是來自於基層的聲音。"],["潘部長文忠：學校現場讓我們認為需要給學校更明確的，在這次注意事項有非常清楚的規範，我想再給召委來參考。"],["柯委員志恩：我想在這一件事情上面，我們會後續再做額外的處理。"],["潘部長文忠：是，召委，這個議題謝謝你的安排，我覺得讓我們可以在上面來做更多跨部會的串接，因為過去這段時間確實做得非常……"],["柯委員志恩：好，我只希望我們以後來討論這件事情，不像今天的天氣這麼陰霾，而是陽光普照，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝召委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝柯志恩委員，請各位回座，謝謝。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：接下來我們請登記質詢第4號的葛如鈞委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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\"做\", \"start\": 788.725, \"end\": 788.765, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 788.765, \"end\": 788.785, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 813.226, \"end\": 813.246, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 813.246, \"end\": 813.367, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 813.367, \"end\": 813.447, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 813.447, \"end\": 813.467, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 813.467, \"end\": 813.567, \"score\": 0.601}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 813.567, \"end\": 813.628, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 813.628, \"end\": 813.808, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 813.808, \"end\": 813.828, \"score\": 0.027}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 813.828, \"end\": 814.129, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 814.129, \"end\": 814.25, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 814.25, \"end\": 814.31, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"D\", \"start\": 814.31, \"end\": 814.33, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 814.33, \"end\": 814.49, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 814.49, \"end\": 814.51, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"幕\", \"start\": 814.51, \"end\": 814.531, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"組\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,329 --> 00:00:29,184\n科昭偉質詢謝謝主席我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院的家事廳的廳長、法務部的法務部的代表還有內政部的警察、刑事警察局的副局長請各位好不好請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長\n\n2\n00:00:32,296 --> 00:00:59,495\n好,非常謝謝各位為什麼請這麼多人過來我想我們大多非常關切我們所謂的校園的安全我覺得今天真是一個BlueMonday為什麼八樓在討論受虐兒然後我們在一樓在討論校園暴力的事件一個孩子在我們台灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思那我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話明日就會變成成年犯\n\n3\n00:00:59,995 --> 00:01:18,526\n所以我們如果剛剛大家一直不斷在討論露街不希望發生事情來露街我們就先來討論一下如何來對街還有誰該要來承接我們先來看一下下面一個數據我們想這個部分裏面我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有1萬多這是一個數據顯示那是2020年統計受理14316人但是只有5330人是交付保護管束\n\n4\n00:01:28,832 --> 00:01:52,799\n大概只有占37%．而且我們依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的．少府會的工作報告．說實在的．在2023年7月到11月．少府會只收到541案．而且開案輔導只有302案．保護的這麼多．然後受理的這麼多．然後再加上你們所承接的．我想請問各位．這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束．\n\n5\n00:01:54,246 --> 00:01:54,687\n請各位很快時間告訴我一下\n\n6\n00:02:09,678 --> 00:02:25,032\n跟委員報告因為教育部是學校這個體系確實我們在跟警政單位、衛福單位在過往在這一方面是比較有定期長期的這樣的一個會議而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用跟警政單位之間\n\n7\n00:02:25,732 --> 00:02:36,680\n市長,沒有問題,你可以有很多的說法我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多的妥善的處理我們就直接問我們刑事局的副局長好了我們目前來說我們修了這個少年事件的處理法我們成立了少府會\n\n8\n00:02:43,185 --> 00:02:48,889\n欸少婦會沒人沒錢沒資源位階又很低有些縣市的少婦會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊千萬欸你們少年隊這麼神嗎處理這麼多事你有沒有看到那個法規裡面這麼多的事情我想請問一下有些地方請問一下警政署你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事\n\n9\n00:03:05,146 --> 00:03:20,719\n謝謝委員的關心和提問有關於少婦會的部分目前它從110年代我知道我說你們我現在只問少婦會要承接這麼多的事情有些縣市單位根本沒有成立把它直接丟到你們的警政署下面的一個少年隊有沒有這種事有嗎\n\n10\n00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:23,441\n我現在就說孩子越生越少少年犯是越來越多就是我們所聞的問題我剛剛只問到了我們不要漏接但是對接的問題在哪裡你看連我們在八樓被我們\n\n11\n00:03:44,836 --> 00:03:59,421\n被我們叫質詢的衛福部都可以提出來他說稍委會的專案對接是有落差的案量非常的低而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供這個偏差行為的個案輔導還有很多縣市根本拒絕這個接受這個所謂先超輔導的這個個案有沒有這種事情那有這種事情的話司法院該怎麼樣來處理你成立這麼多委員會卻沒有辦法對接這要怎麼來處理\n\n12\n00:04:11,011 --> 00:04:31,243\n報告委員就所知我們目前地方的縣市的少府會並沒有拒絕相關的一個輔導工作在增加典禮事項我們目前是應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年公務所他們的你們沒有拒接你們卻把這東西可能丟到別的地方去然後我只問嘛剛剛我們少府會所要承接的這麼多的狀況你們有能力嗎你們少年隊就是抓警、抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導、社工\n\n13\n00:04:40,689 --> 00:04:40,749\n李卓人\n\n14\n00:05:10,672 --> 00:05:23,923\n人力不足我現在發現每一次早上一出事都是說我們的缺的一個人力我們現在只要來看看但是法院的人力不足跟暴險少年回歸校園這是兩碼的事情我們先看下面一個數據對我個人來說彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大的原因我們來看一看這是根據你們的資料顯示\n\n15\n00:05:35,393 --> 00:05:49,380\n目前高風險的案件還有966件這是少年法庭告訴我們的我想請問部長你知道這966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎如果你們彼此熟彼此都可以互相來做對接你知道這些有多少在學校嗎\n\n16\n00:05:50,168 --> 00:05:54,389\n還有警政署也出來講一下話少年嫌疑犯已經有17900人然後呢比上一年還增加的12.94下面這個資料有這麼多的這些狀況當中你們彼此間沒有對接然後一發生事情你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多好時間最快時間回到學校我只請問真的只有回到學校嗎?真的只通知學校嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:19,037 --> 00:06:27,426\n這些人適合回學校嗎?所以證明裡面有太多的問題存在了很多人不適合學校的話這還只是960個是高風險案還有非常多的黑數我剛特別提到了你看我都不想放這期的影片\n\n18\n00:06:34,494 --> 00:06:39,916\n如果你照剛剛這樣說法的話教育部的這個校園系統顯示剛剛把那個數據拿出來112年高中值以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是27000比110年還多增了1萬多件多增了1萬多件你如果把它平均起來一天平均校園的暴力事件是73件部長你有沒有看到而且你如果看到3月5日這件事情的話\n\n19\n00:07:01,145 --> 00:07:07,766\n這個孩子被呼巴掌呼了20幾個然後呢其他的學生就這樣看著他我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件竟然可以讓學生看得大家都很漠然然後呢我不願意放的原因是因為我看了會傷心還有脫衣服毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛部長你看到這些狀況你的心裡感覺到底是什麼樣我跟委員報告委員剛才談到這個112年跟111年的這也是過去我們一直在強調不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到\n\n20\n00:07:30,931 --> 00:07:32,393\n你現在是告訴我因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來所以數字才這麼多\n\n21\n00:07:53,937 --> 00:08:10,338\n這個數字通報數之後才我們說那學校應該要進一步的確認甚至如果這個通報數像委員所提到的像這個案子我一定會去追不只是一個學校真的說確實就屬實的我一定要求國教署一定要跟地方政府不要讓學校這個事情就不了了之\n\n22\n00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:13,901\n還有一個非常簡單的一個問題就是我們隨便舉個例子來說好了習為偏差的處罰少年離開的少年關乎所或矯正學校我剛剛所提到的誰來承接你知道還想陪你長大聯盟的家長的訴求就是很多的處罰的少年一進到少關所1到3月\n\n23\n00:08:30,091 --> 00:08:31,532\n一年有五成的學生會有再犯刑事案件的這樣一個比例一年有五成\n\n24\n00:08:54,191 --> 00:09:04,919\n這些孩子出來然後呢我們教育部各單位只告訴他我會最快時間把他放回學校通知學校那我要問學校這麼多樣的一個狀況而且這些矯正的孩子我們後面我們需要給他輔導可是他的這個債分率這麼高甚至有一個矯正學校的這個心理諮商輔導師告訴我他有一個學生放出去之後兩三個月就自殺死掉因為他一出去又被追殺然後他自己又不想再犯案\n\n25\n00:09:21,730 --> 00:09:26,993\n他沒有選擇,他就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件。怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?所以我一直強調,矯正基礎如果沒有做好的話,我們整個的問題都會非常的嚴重。這是一個很大的問題。接下來我就要問一下嘛,為什麼少年犯有私密要再換?還有呢,他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣的狀況?你看少關所,三個月之內就把你放出來。\n\n26\n00:09:45,962 --> 00:10:01,701\n那時候的柯景安的這個郭姓少年就是從少關所出來把他放到學校然後再把他轉校然後造成這麼悲劇的一個產生所以呢有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少關所的時候給他更完整的一個評估有沒有辦法做到這一點他不盡量放回學校啊\n\n27\n00:10:06,221 --> 00:10:24,518\n還沒有什麼其他的地方可以承接我們不要漏接但是你們又沒有對接我們誰來承接報告委員有關畫面上是郭姓少年他在我們少關所是今年的3月近年署長你不要再話說從前從盤古開天沒時間你只告訴我以後怎麼來承接\n\n28\n00:10:30,070 --> 00:10:35,676\n我最後好謝謝你我最後只問部長一個問題給我一分鐘部長因為是這個問題裡面因為發生太多的問題很多的家長我知道你們也就放寬了非常多我只問一件事情如果你今天是部長你變成潘老師潘文忠老師好了\n\n29\n00:10:54,654 --> 00:10:56,560\n如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話我請問潘老師怎麼來做這個處理?\n\n30\n00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:23,286\n這次從這個事件我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討也來自很多學校第一線的意見為什麼會對於有關在安全檢查上面有一個傷害對象的這種特定學生會進行安全檢查甚至這些部長我知道你解釋非常多我只問你潘老師你怎麼樣處理當A同學跟潘老師說有B同學有談環報的時候你怎麼處理\n\n31\n00:11:29,668 --> 00:11:44,039\n您的SOP是什麼這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊我剛剛委員報告說為什麼很密集的討論跟公佈的這個事項就是為了要處理這些相關的流程那你怎麼處理你如果是一個回歸到你過去的這個潘老師的話你怎麼來處理這個狀況這個學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業當發生這個事情不要老是單打獨鬥也是危險啊原來在進行這件事情的時候事實上還有一個跟如果這個\n\n32\n00:11:56,409 --> 00:12:07,876\n所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要我只要提醒部長因為我時間到了我要提醒部長目前為止老師發生事情為什麼老師都不太敢去介入處理因為老師現在處理的是一個模擬兩可的輔導的管教辦法\n\n33\n00:12:11,658 --> 00:12:23,788\n但是他萬一處理不當的話學生或教長可以用非常明確的刑法或是明法來告老師這就是目前我們老師的困境一個是模擬良可一個是明確你叫老師怎麼辦?提到那個緊急的處置學校實際上一定要常態地做這方面的研練跟準備啦那不是說我在讀運氣這個是跟委員報告第二個是在這一次的注意事項其實對於老師阻卻違法的這個討論\n\n34\n00:12:39,301 --> 00:12:42,484\n所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題潘部長你就會發現身為老師當他變成這個角色的時候其實他是處在一個非常危難的狀況如果剛剛被暴逼同學暴老師去查了沒有那到時候家長是不是又反過來告老師這就是一個目前第一次\n\n35\n00:13:07,824 --> 00:13:08,785\n我只希望我只告訴你這是來自於基層的聲音我想我們會後續在這件事情上面會再做更額外的一個做處理\n\n36\n00:13:33,226 --> 00:13:34,531\nMINGPAOCANADA字幕組\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t29184\t科昭偉質詢謝謝主席我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院的家事廳的廳長、法務部的法務部的代表還有內政部的警察、刑事警察局的副局長請各位好不好請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長\n32296\t59495\t好,非常謝謝各位為什麼請這麼多人過來我想我們大多非常關切我們所謂的校園的安全我覺得今天真是一個Blue Monday為什麼八樓在討論受虐兒然後我們在一樓在討論校園暴力的事件一個孩子在我們台灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思那我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話明日就會變成成年犯\n59995\t78526\t所以我們如果剛剛大家一直不斷在討論露街不希望發生事情來露街我們就先來討論一下如何來對街還有誰該要來承接我們先來看一下下面一個數據我們想這個部分裏面我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有1萬多這是一個數據顯示那是2020年統計受理14316人但是只有5330人是交付保護管束\n88832\t112799\t大概只有占37%．而且我們依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的．少府會的工作報告．說實在的．在2023年7月到11月．少府會只收到541案．而且開案輔導只有302案．保護的這麼多．然後受理的這麼多．然後再加上你們所承接的．我想請問各位．這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束．\n114246\t114687\t請各位很快時間告訴我一下\n129678\t145032\t跟委員報告因為教育部是學校這個體系確實我們在跟警政單位、衛福單位在過往在這一方面是比較有定期長期的這樣的一個會議而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用跟警政單位之間\n145732\t156680\t市長,沒有問題,你可以有很多的說法我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多的妥善的處理我們就直接問我們刑事局的副局長好了我們目前來說我們修了這個少年事件的處理法我們成立了少府會\n163185\t168889\t欸 少婦會沒人沒錢沒資源位階又很低有些縣市的少婦會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊千萬欸 你們少年隊這麼神嗎處理這麼多事你有沒有看到那個法規裡面這麼多的事情我想請問一下有些地方請問一下警政署你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事\n185146\t200719\t謝謝委員的關心和提問有關於少婦會的部分目前它從110年代我知道我說你們我現在只問少婦會要承接這麼多的事情有些縣市單位根本沒有成立把它直接丟到你們的警政署下面的一個少年隊有沒有這種事有嗎\n201540\t203441\t我現在就說孩子越生越少少年犯是越來越多就是我們所聞的問題我剛剛只問到了我們不要漏接但是對接的問題在哪裡你看連我們在八樓被我們\n224836\t239421\t被我們叫質詢的衛福部都可以提出來他說稍委會的專案對接是有落差的案量非常的低而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供這個偏差行為的個案輔導還有很多縣市根本拒絕這個接受這個所謂先超輔導的這個個案有沒有這種事情那有這種事情的話司法院該怎麼樣來處理你成立這麼多委員會卻沒有辦法對接這要怎麼來處理\n251011\t271243\t報告委員就所知我們目前地方的縣市的少府會並沒有拒絕相關的一個輔導工作在增加典禮事項我們目前是應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年公務所他們的你們沒有拒接你們卻把這東西可能丟到別的地方去然後我只問嘛剛剛我們少府會所要承接的這麼多的狀況你們有能力嗎你們少年隊就是抓警、抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導、社工\n280689\t280749\t李卓人\n310672\t323923\t人力不足我現在發現每一次早上一出事都是說我們的缺的一個人力我們現在只要來看看但是法院的人力不足跟暴險少年回歸校園這是兩碼的事情我們先看下面一個數據對我個人來說彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大的原因我們來看一看這是根據你們的資料顯示\n335393\t349380\t目前高風險的案件還有966件這是少年法庭告訴我們的我想請問部長你知道這966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎如果你們彼此熟彼此都可以互相來做對接你知道這些有多少在學校嗎\n350168\t354389\t還有警政署也出來講一下話少年嫌疑犯已經有17900人然後呢比上一年還增加的12.94下面這個資料有這麼多的這些狀況當中你們彼此間沒有對接然後一發生事情你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多好時間最快時間回到學校我只請問真的只有回到學校嗎?真的只通知學校嗎?\n379037\t387426\t這些人適合回學校嗎?所以證明裡面有太多的問題存在了很多人不適合學校的話這還只是960個是高風險案還有非常多的黑數我剛特別提到了你看我都不想放這期的影片\n394494\t399916\t如果你照剛剛這樣說法的話教育部的這個校園系統顯示剛剛把那個數據拿出來112年高中值以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是27000比110年還多增了1萬多件多增了1萬多件你如果把它平均起來一天平均校園的暴力事件是73件部長你有沒有看到而且你如果看到3月5日這件事情的話\n421145\t427766\t這個孩子被呼巴掌呼了20幾個然後呢其他的學生就這樣看著他我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件竟然可以讓學生看得大家都很漠然然後呢我不願意放的原因是因為我看了會傷心還有脫衣服毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛部長你看到這些狀況你的心裡感覺到底是什麼樣我跟委員報告委員剛才談到這個112年跟111年的這也是過去我們一直在強調不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到\n450931\t452393\t你現在是告訴我因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來所以數字才這麼多\n473937\t490338\t這個數字通報數之後才我們說那學校應該要進一步的確認甚至如果這個通報數像委員所提到的像這個案子我一定會去追不只是一個學校真的說確實就屬實的我一定要求國教署一定要跟地方政府不要讓學校這個事情就不了了之\n491519\t493901\t還有一個非常簡單的一個問題就是我們隨便舉個例子來說好了習為偏差的處罰少年離開的少年關乎所或矯正學校我剛剛所提到的誰來承接你知道還想陪你長大聯盟的家長的訴求就是很多的處罰的少年一進到少關所1到3月\n510091\t511532\t一年有五成的學生會有再犯刑事案件的這樣一個比例一年有五成\n534191\t544919\t這些孩子出來然後呢我們教育部各單位只告訴他我會最快時間把他放回學校通知學校那我要問學校這麼多樣的一個狀況而且這些矯正的孩子我們後面我們需要給他輔導可是他的這個債分率這麼高甚至有一個矯正學校的這個心理諮商輔導師告訴我他有一個學生放出去之後兩三個月就自殺死掉因為他一出去又被追殺然後他自己又不想再犯案\n561730\t566993\t他沒有選擇,他就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件。怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?所以我一直強調,矯正基礎如果沒有做好的話,我們整個的問題都會非常的嚴重。這是一個很大的問題。接下來我就要問一下嘛,為什麼少年犯有私密要再換?還有呢,他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣的狀況?你看少關所,三個月之內就把你放出來。\n585962\t601701\t那時候的柯景安的這個郭姓少年就是從少關所出來把他放到學校然後再把他轉校然後造成這麼悲劇的一個產生所以呢有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少關所的時候給他更完整的一個評估有沒有辦法做到這一點他不盡量放回學校啊\n606221\t624518\t還沒有什麼其他的地方可以承接我們不要漏接但是你們又沒有對接我們誰來承接報告委員有關畫面上是郭姓少年他在我們少關所是今年的3月近年署長你不要再話說從前從盤古開天沒時間你只告訴我以後怎麼來承接\n630070\t635676\t我最後好謝謝你我最後只問部長一個問題給我一分鐘部長因為是這個問題裡面因為發生太多的問題很多的家長我知道你們也就放寬了非常多我只問一件事情如果你今天是部長你變成潘老師潘文忠老師好了\n654654\t656560\t如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話我請問潘老師怎麼來做這個處理?\n664360\t683286\t這次從這個事件我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討也來自很多學校第一線的意見為什麼會對於有關在安全檢查上面有一個傷害對象的這種特定學生會進行安全檢查甚至這些部長我知道你解釋非常多我只問你潘老師你怎麼樣處理當A同學跟潘老師說有B同學有談環報的時候你怎麼處理\n689668\t704039\t您的SOP是什麼這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊我剛剛委員報告說為什麼很密集的討論跟公佈的這個事項就是為了要處理這些相關的流程那你怎麼處理你如果是一個回歸到你過去的這個潘老師的話你怎麼來處理這個狀況這個學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業當發生這個事情不要老是單打獨鬥也是危險啊原來在進行這件事情的時候事實上還有一個跟如果這個\n716409\t727876\t所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要我只要提醒部長因為我時間到了我要提醒部長目前為止老師發生事情為什麼老師都不太敢去介入處理因為老師現在處理的是一個模擬兩可的輔導的管教辦法\n731658\t743788\t但是他萬一處理不當的話學生或教長可以用非常明確的刑法或是明法來告老師這就是目前我們老師的困境一個是模擬良可 一個是明確你叫老師怎麼辦?提到那個緊急的處置學校實際上一定要常態地做這方面的研練跟準備啦那不是說我在讀運氣這個是跟委員報告第二個是在這一次的注意事項其實對於老師阻卻違法的這個討論\n759301\t762484\t所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題潘部長你就會發現身為老師當他變成這個角色的時候其實他是處在一個非常危難的狀況如果剛剛被暴 逼同學暴 老師去查了沒有那到時候家長是不是又反過來告老師這就是一個目前第一次\n787824\t788785\t我只希望我只告訴你這是來自於基層的聲音我想我們會後續在這件事情上面會再做更額外的一個做處理\n813226\t814531\tMING PAO CANADA 字幕組\n","txt":"科昭偉質詢謝謝主席我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院的家事廳的廳長、法務部的法務部的代表還有內政部的警察、刑事警察局的副局長請各位好不好請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長\n好,非常謝謝各位為什麼請這麼多人過來我想我們大多非常關切我們所謂的校園的安全我覺得今天真是一個Blue Monday為什麼八樓在討論受虐兒然後我們在一樓在討論校園暴力的事件一個孩子在我們台灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思那我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話明日就會變成成年犯\n所以我們如果剛剛大家一直不斷在討論露街不希望發生事情來露街我們就先來討論一下如何來對街還有誰該要來承接我們先來看一下下面一個數據我們想這個部分裏面我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有1萬多這是一個數據顯示那是2020年統計受理14316人但是只有5330人是交付保護管束\n大概只有占37%．而且我們依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的．少府會的工作報告．說實在的．在2023年7月到11月．少府會只收到541案．而且開案輔導只有302案．保護的這麼多．然後受理的這麼多．然後再加上你們所承接的．我想請問各位．這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束．\n請各位很快時間告訴我一下\n跟委員報告因為教育部是學校這個體系確實我們在跟警政單位、衛福單位在過往在這一方面是比較有定期長期的這樣的一個會議而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用跟警政單位之間\n市長,沒有問題,你可以有很多的說法我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多的妥善的處理我們就直接問我們刑事局的副局長好了我們目前來說我們修了這個少年事件的處理法我們成立了少府會\n欸 少婦會沒人沒錢沒資源位階又很低有些縣市的少婦會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊千萬欸 你們少年隊這麼神嗎處理這麼多事你有沒有看到那個法規裡面這麼多的事情我想請問一下有些地方請問一下警政署你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事\n謝謝委員的關心和提問有關於少婦會的部分目前它從110年代我知道我說你們我現在只問少婦會要承接這麼多的事情有些縣市單位根本沒有成立把它直接丟到你們的警政署下面的一個少年隊有沒有這種事有嗎\n我現在就說孩子越生越少少年犯是越來越多就是我們所聞的問題我剛剛只問到了我們不要漏接但是對接的問題在哪裡你看連我們在八樓被我們\n被我們叫質詢的衛福部都可以提出來他說稍委會的專案對接是有落差的案量非常的低而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供這個偏差行為的個案輔導還有很多縣市根本拒絕這個接受這個所謂先超輔導的這個個案有沒有這種事情那有這種事情的話司法院該怎麼樣來處理你成立這麼多委員會卻沒有辦法對接這要怎麼來處理\n報告委員就所知我們目前地方的縣市的少府會並沒有拒絕相關的一個輔導工作在增加典禮事項我們目前是應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年公務所他們的你們沒有拒接你們卻把這東西可能丟到別的地方去然後我只問嘛剛剛我們少府會所要承接的這麼多的狀況你們有能力嗎你們少年隊就是抓警、抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導、社工\n李卓人\n人力不足我現在發現每一次早上一出事都是說我們的缺的一個人力我們現在只要來看看但是法院的人力不足跟暴險少年回歸校園這是兩碼的事情我們先看下面一個數據對我個人來說彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大的原因我們來看一看這是根據你們的資料顯示\n目前高風險的案件還有966件這是少年法庭告訴我們的我想請問部長你知道這966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎如果你們彼此熟彼此都可以互相來做對接你知道這些有多少在學校嗎\n還有警政署也出來講一下話少年嫌疑犯已經有17900人然後呢比上一年還增加的12.94下面這個資料有這麼多的這些狀況當中你們彼此間沒有對接然後一發生事情你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多好時間最快時間回到學校我只請問真的只有回到學校嗎?真的只通知學校嗎?\n這些人適合回學校嗎?所以證明裡面有太多的問題存在了很多人不適合學校的話這還只是960個是高風險案還有非常多的黑數我剛特別提到了你看我都不想放這期的影片\n如果你照剛剛這樣說法的話教育部的這個校園系統顯示剛剛把那個數據拿出來112年高中值以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是27000比110年還多增了1萬多件多增了1萬多件你如果把它平均起來一天平均校園的暴力事件是73件部長你有沒有看到而且你如果看到3月5日這件事情的話\n這個孩子被呼巴掌呼了20幾個然後呢其他的學生就這樣看著他我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件竟然可以讓學生看得大家都很漠然然後呢我不願意放的原因是因為我看了會傷心還有脫衣服毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛部長你看到這些狀況你的心裡感覺到底是什麼樣我跟委員報告委員剛才談到這個112年跟111年的這也是過去我們一直在強調不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到\n你現在是告訴我因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來所以數字才這麼多\n這個數字通報數之後才我們說那學校應該要進一步的確認甚至如果這個通報數像委員所提到的像這個案子我一定會去追不只是一個學校真的說確實就屬實的我一定要求國教署一定要跟地方政府不要讓學校這個事情就不了了之\n還有一個非常簡單的一個問題就是我們隨便舉個例子來說好了習為偏差的處罰少年離開的少年關乎所或矯正學校我剛剛所提到的誰來承接你知道還想陪你長大聯盟的家長的訴求就是很多的處罰的少年一進到少關所1到3月\n一年有五成的學生會有再犯刑事案件的這樣一個比例一年有五成\n這些孩子出來然後呢我們教育部各單位只告訴他我會最快時間把他放回學校通知學校那我要問學校這麼多樣的一個狀況而且這些矯正的孩子我們後面我們需要給他輔導可是他的這個債分率這麼高甚至有一個矯正學校的這個心理諮商輔導師告訴我他有一個學生放出去之後兩三個月就自殺死掉因為他一出去又被追殺然後他自己又不想再犯案\n他沒有選擇,他就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件。怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?所以我一直強調,矯正基礎如果沒有做好的話,我們整個的問題都會非常的嚴重。這是一個很大的問題。接下來我就要問一下嘛,為什麼少年犯有私密要再換?還有呢,他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣的狀況?你看少關所,三個月之內就把你放出來。\n那時候的柯景安的這個郭姓少年就是從少關所出來把他放到學校然後再把他轉校然後造成這麼悲劇的一個產生所以呢有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少關所的時候給他更完整的一個評估有沒有辦法做到這一點他不盡量放回學校啊\n還沒有什麼其他的地方可以承接我們不要漏接但是你們又沒有對接我們誰來承接報告委員有關畫面上是郭姓少年他在我們少關所是今年的3月近年署長你不要再話說從前從盤古開天沒時間你只告訴我以後怎麼來承接\n我最後好謝謝你我最後只問部長一個問題給我一分鐘部長因為是這個問題裡面因為發生太多的問題很多的家長我知道你們也就放寬了非常多我只問一件事情如果你今天是部長你變成潘老師潘文忠老師好了\n如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話我請問潘老師怎麼來做這個處理?\n這次從這個事件我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討也來自很多學校第一線的意見為什麼會對於有關在安全檢查上面有一個傷害對象的這種特定學生會進行安全檢查甚至這些部長我知道你解釋非常多我只問你潘老師你怎麼樣處理當A同學跟潘老師說有B同學有談環報的時候你怎麼處理\n您的SOP是什麼這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊我剛剛委員報告說為什麼很密集的討論跟公佈的這個事項就是為了要處理這些相關的流程那你怎麼處理你如果是一個回歸到你過去的這個潘老師的話你怎麼來處理這個狀況這個學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業當發生這個事情不要老是單打獨鬥也是危險啊原來在進行這件事情的時候事實上還有一個跟如果這個\n所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要我只要提醒部長因為我時間到了我要提醒部長目前為止老師發生事情為什麼老師都不太敢去介入處理因為老師現在處理的是一個模擬兩可的輔導的管教辦法\n但是他萬一處理不當的話學生或教長可以用非常明確的刑法或是明法來告老師這就是目前我們老師的困境一個是模擬良可 一個是明確你叫老師怎麼辦?提到那個緊急的處置學校實際上一定要常態地做這方面的研練跟準備啦那不是說我在讀運氣這個是跟委員報告第二個是在這一次的注意事項其實對於老師阻卻違法的這個討論\n所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題潘部長你就會發現身為老師當他變成這個角色的時候其實他是處在一個非常危難的狀況如果剛剛被暴 逼同學暴 老師去查了沒有那到時候家長是不是又反過來告老師這就是一個目前第一次\n我只希望我只告訴你這是來自於基層的聲音我想我們會後續在這件事情上面會再做更額外的一個做處理\nMING PAO CANADA 字幕組\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:29.184\n科昭偉質詢謝謝主席我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院的家事廳的廳長、法務部的法務部的代表還有內政部的警察、刑事警察局的副局長請各位好不好請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長\n\n00:32.296 --> 00:59.495\n好,非常謝謝各位為什麼請這麼多人過來我想我們大多非常關切我們所謂的校園的安全我覺得今天真是一個BlueMonday為什麼八樓在討論受虐兒然後我們在一樓在討論校園暴力的事件一個孩子在我們台灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思那我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話明日就會變成成年犯\n\n00:59.995 --> 01:18.526\n所以我們如果剛剛大家一直不斷在討論露街不希望發生事情來露街我們就先來討論一下如何來對街還有誰該要來承接我們先來看一下下面一個數據我們想這個部分裏面我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有1萬多這是一個數據顯示那是2020年統計受理14316人但是只有5330人是交付保護管束\n\n01:28.832 --> 01:52.799\n大概只有占37%．而且我們依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的．少府會的工作報告．說實在的．在2023年7月到11月．少府會只收到541案．而且開案輔導只有302案．保護的這麼多．然後受理的這麼多．然後再加上你們所承接的．我想請問各位．這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束．\n\n01:54.246 --> 01:54.687\n請各位很快時間告訴我一下\n\n02:09.678 --> 02:25.032\n跟委員報告因為教育部是學校這個體系確實我們在跟警政單位、衛福單位在過往在這一方面是比較有定期長期的這樣的一個會議而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用跟警政單位之間\n\n02:25.732 --> 02:36.680\n市長,沒有問題,你可以有很多的說法我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多的妥善的處理我們就直接問我們刑事局的副局長好了我們目前來說我們修了這個少年事件的處理法我們成立了少府會\n\n02:43.185 --> 02:48.889\n欸少婦會沒人沒錢沒資源位階又很低有些縣市的少婦會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊千萬欸你們少年隊這麼神嗎處理這麼多事你有沒有看到那個法規裡面這麼多的事情我想請問一下有些地方請問一下警政署你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事\n\n03:05.146 --> 03:20.719\n謝謝委員的關心和提問有關於少婦會的部分目前它從110年代我知道我說你們我現在只問少婦會要承接這麼多的事情有些縣市單位根本沒有成立把它直接丟到你們的警政署下面的一個少年隊有沒有這種事有嗎\n\n03:21.540 --> 03:23.441\n我現在就說孩子越生越少少年犯是越來越多就是我們所聞的問題我剛剛只問到了我們不要漏接但是對接的問題在哪裡你看連我們在八樓被我們\n\n03:44.836 --> 03:59.421\n被我們叫質詢的衛福部都可以提出來他說稍委會的專案對接是有落差的案量非常的低而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供這個偏差行為的個案輔導還有很多縣市根本拒絕這個接受這個所謂先超輔導的這個個案有沒有這種事情那有這種事情的話司法院該怎麼樣來處理你成立這麼多委員會卻沒有辦法對接這要怎麼來處理\n\n04:11.011 --> 04:31.243\n報告委員就所知我們目前地方的縣市的少府會並沒有拒絕相關的一個輔導工作在增加典禮事項我們目前是應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年公務所他們的你們沒有拒接你們卻把這東西可能丟到別的地方去然後我只問嘛剛剛我們少府會所要承接的這麼多的狀況你們有能力嗎你們少年隊就是抓警、抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導、社工\n\n04:40.689 --> 04:40.749\n李卓人\n\n05:10.672 --> 05:23.923\n人力不足我現在發現每一次早上一出事都是說我們的缺的一個人力我們現在只要來看看但是法院的人力不足跟暴險少年回歸校園這是兩碼的事情我們先看下面一個數據對我個人來說彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大的原因我們來看一看這是根據你們的資料顯示\n\n05:35.393 --> 05:49.380\n目前高風險的案件還有966件這是少年法庭告訴我們的我想請問部長你知道這966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎如果你們彼此熟彼此都可以互相來做對接你知道這些有多少在學校嗎\n\n05:50.168 --> 05:54.389\n還有警政署也出來講一下話少年嫌疑犯已經有17900人然後呢比上一年還增加的12.94下面這個資料有這麼多的這些狀況當中你們彼此間沒有對接然後一發生事情你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多好時間最快時間回到學校我只請問真的只有回到學校嗎?真的只通知學校嗎?\n\n06:19.037 --> 06:27.426\n這些人適合回學校嗎?所以證明裡面有太多的問題存在了很多人不適合學校的話這還只是960個是高風險案還有非常多的黑數我剛特別提到了你看我都不想放這期的影片\n\n06:34.494 --> 06:39.916\n如果你照剛剛這樣說法的話教育部的這個校園系統顯示剛剛把那個數據拿出來112年高中值以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是27000比110年還多增了1萬多件多增了1萬多件你如果把它平均起來一天平均校園的暴力事件是73件部長你有沒有看到而且你如果看到3月5日這件事情的話\n\n07:01.145 --> 07:07.766\n這個孩子被呼巴掌呼了20幾個然後呢其他的學生就這樣看著他我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件竟然可以讓學生看得大家都很漠然然後呢我不願意放的原因是因為我看了會傷心還有脫衣服毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛部長你看到這些狀況你的心裡感覺到底是什麼樣我跟委員報告委員剛才談到這個112年跟111年的這也是過去我們一直在強調不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到\n\n07:30.931 --> 07:32.393\n你現在是告訴我因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來所以數字才這麼多\n\n07:53.937 --> 08:10.338\n這個數字通報數之後才我們說那學校應該要進一步的確認甚至如果這個通報數像委員所提到的像這個案子我一定會去追不只是一個學校真的說確實就屬實的我一定要求國教署一定要跟地方政府不要讓學校這個事情就不了了之\n\n08:11.519 --> 08:13.901\n還有一個非常簡單的一個問題就是我們隨便舉個例子來說好了習為偏差的處罰少年離開的少年關乎所或矯正學校我剛剛所提到的誰來承接你知道還想陪你長大聯盟的家長的訴求就是很多的處罰的少年一進到少關所1到3月\n\n08:30.091 --> 08:31.532\n一年有五成的學生會有再犯刑事案件的這樣一個比例一年有五成\n\n08:54.191 --> 09:04.919\n這些孩子出來然後呢我們教育部各單位只告訴他我會最快時間把他放回學校通知學校那我要問學校這麼多樣的一個狀況而且這些矯正的孩子我們後面我們需要給他輔導可是他的這個債分率這麼高甚至有一個矯正學校的這個心理諮商輔導師告訴我他有一個學生放出去之後兩三個月就自殺死掉因為他一出去又被追殺然後他自己又不想再犯案\n\n09:21.730 --> 09:26.993\n他沒有選擇,他就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件。怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?所以我一直強調,矯正基礎如果沒有做好的話,我們整個的問題都會非常的嚴重。這是一個很大的問題。接下來我就要問一下嘛,為什麼少年犯有私密要再換?還有呢,他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣的狀況?你看少關所,三個月之內就把你放出來。\n\n09:45.962 --> 10:01.701\n那時候的柯景安的這個郭姓少年就是從少關所出來把他放到學校然後再把他轉校然後造成這麼悲劇的一個產生所以呢有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少關所的時候給他更完整的一個評估有沒有辦法做到這一點他不盡量放回學校啊\n\n10:06.221 --> 10:24.518\n還沒有什麼其他的地方可以承接我們不要漏接但是你們又沒有對接我們誰來承接報告委員有關畫面上是郭姓少年他在我們少關所是今年的3月近年署長你不要再話說從前從盤古開天沒時間你只告訴我以後怎麼來承接\n\n10:30.070 --> 10:35.676\n我最後好謝謝你我最後只問部長一個問題給我一分鐘部長因為是這個問題裡面因為發生太多的問題很多的家長我知道你們也就放寬了非常多我只問一件事情如果你今天是部長你變成潘老師潘文忠老師好了\n\n10:54.654 --> 10:56.560\n如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話我請問潘老師怎麼來做這個處理?\n\n11:04.360 --> 11:23.286\n這次從這個事件我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討也來自很多學校第一線的意見為什麼會對於有關在安全檢查上面有一個傷害對象的這種特定學生會進行安全檢查甚至這些部長我知道你解釋非常多我只問你潘老師你怎麼樣處理當A同學跟潘老師說有B同學有談環報的時候你怎麼處理\n\n11:29.668 --> 11:44.039\n您的SOP是什麼這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊我剛剛委員報告說為什麼很密集的討論跟公佈的這個事項就是為了要處理這些相關的流程那你怎麼處理你如果是一個回歸到你過去的這個潘老師的話你怎麼來處理這個狀況這個學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業當發生這個事情不要老是單打獨鬥也是危險啊原來在進行這件事情的時候事實上還有一個跟如果這個\n\n11:56.409 --> 12:07.876\n所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要我只要提醒部長因為我時間到了我要提醒部長目前為止老師發生事情為什麼老師都不太敢去介入處理因為老師現在處理的是一個模擬兩可的輔導的管教辦法\n\n12:11.658 --> 12:23.788\n但是他萬一處理不當的話學生或教長可以用非常明確的刑法或是明法來告老師這就是目前我們老師的困境一個是模擬良可一個是明確你叫老師怎麼辦?提到那個緊急的處置學校實際上一定要常態地做這方面的研練跟準備啦那不是說我在讀運氣這個是跟委員報告第二個是在這一次的注意事項其實對於老師阻卻違法的這個討論\n\n12:39.301 --> 12:42.484\n所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題潘部長你就會發現身為老師當他變成這個角色的時候其實他是處在一個非常危難的狀況如果剛剛被暴逼同學暴老師去查了沒有那到時候家長是不是又反過來告老師這就是一個目前第一次\n\n13:07.824 --> 13:08.785\n我只希望我只告訴你這是來自於基層的聲音我想我們會後續在這件事情上面會再做更額外的一個做處理\n\n13:33.226 --> 13:34.531\nMINGPAOCANADA字幕組\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":29.184,"text":"科昭偉質詢謝謝主席我是不是可以請教育部的潘部長、司法院的家事廳的廳長、法務部的法務部的代表還有內政部的警察、刑事警察局的副局長請各位好不好請教育部潘部長、司法院謝廳長、法務部矯正署的周署長、刑事局林副局長"},{"start":32.296,"end":59.495,"text":"好,非常謝謝各位為什麼請這麼多人過來我想我們大多非常關切我們所謂的校園的安全我覺得今天真是一個Blue Monday為什麼八樓在討論受虐兒然後我們在一樓在討論校園暴力的事件一個孩子在我們台灣的社會要讓他安全的成長是牽動非常多人的心思那我一直認為今日的少年犯如果我們不好好的處理的話明日就會變成成年犯"},{"start":59.995,"end":78.526,"text":"所以我們如果剛剛大家一直不斷在討論露街不希望發生事情來露街我們就先來討論一下如何來對街還有誰該要來承接我們先來看一下下面一個數據我們想這個部分裏面我們一年受理保護管束的人大概有1萬多這是一個數據顯示那是2020年統計受理14316人但是只有5330人是交付保護管束"},{"start":88.832,"end":112.799,"text":"大概只有占37%．而且我們依照我們剛剛一直不斷提到的．少府會的工作報告．說實在的．在2023年7月到11月．少府會只收到541案．而且開案輔導只有302案．保護的這麼多．然後受理的這麼多．然後再加上你們所承接的．我想請問各位．這些孩子到哪裡接受保護管束．"},{"start":114.246,"end":114.687,"text":"請各位很快時間告訴我一下"},{"start":129.678,"end":145.032,"text":"跟委員報告因為教育部是學校這個體系確實我們在跟警政單位、衛福單位在過往在這一方面是比較有定期長期的這樣的一個會議而且包含我們說涉及毒品濫用跟警政單位之間"},{"start":145.732,"end":156.68,"text":"市長,沒有問題,你可以有很多的說法我剛剛聽了很多你們的報告每個都覺得自己好像給孩子在發生事情的時候做了很多的妥善的處理我們就直接問我們刑事局的副局長好了我們目前來說我們修了這個少年事件的處理法我們成立了少府會"},{"start":163.185,"end":168.889,"text":"欸 少婦會沒人沒錢沒資源位階又很低有些縣市的少婦會根本就跑到警察局的少年隊千萬欸 你們少年隊這麼神嗎處理這麼多事你有沒有看到那個法規裡面這麼多的事情我想請問一下有些地方請問一下警政署你們的少年隊有沒有辦法承接這些事"},{"start":185.146,"end":200.719,"text":"謝謝委員的關心和提問有關於少婦會的部分目前它從110年代我知道我說你們我現在只問少婦會要承接這麼多的事情有些縣市單位根本沒有成立把它直接丟到你們的警政署下面的一個少年隊有沒有這種事有嗎"},{"start":201.54,"end":203.441,"text":"我現在就說孩子越生越少少年犯是越來越多就是我們所聞的問題我剛剛只問到了我們不要漏接但是對接的問題在哪裡你看連我們在八樓被我們"},{"start":224.836,"end":239.421,"text":"被我們叫質詢的衛福部都可以提出來他說稍委會的專案對接是有落差的案量非常的低而且很多的縣市根本不願意提供這個偏差行為的個案輔導還有很多縣市根本拒絕這個接受這個所謂先超輔導的這個個案有沒有這種事情那有這種事情的話司法院該怎麼樣來處理你成立這麼多委員會卻沒有辦法對接這要怎麼來處理"},{"start":251.011,"end":271.243,"text":"報告委員就所知我們目前地方的縣市的少府會並沒有拒絕相關的一個輔導工作在增加典禮事項我們目前是應該可以承接有關少年法院或是少年公務所他們的你們沒有拒接你們卻把這東西可能丟到別的地方去然後我只問嘛剛剛我們少府會所要承接的這麼多的狀況你們有能力嗎你們少年隊就是抓警、抓小偷、抓嫌疑犯還有時間來處理這些心理諮商、輔導、社工"},{"start":280.689,"end":280.749,"text":"李卓人"},{"start":310.672,"end":323.923,"text":"人力不足我現在發現每一次早上一出事都是說我們的缺的一個人力我們現在只要來看看但是法院的人力不足跟暴險少年回歸校園這是兩碼的事情我們先看下面一個數據對我個人來說彼此之間沒有對接才是讓這事件會被漏接的最大的原因我們來看一看這是根據你們的資料顯示"},{"start":335.393,"end":349.38,"text":"目前高風險的案件還有966件這是少年法庭告訴我們的我想請問部長你知道這966件的這些人有多少在學校嗎如果你們彼此熟彼此都可以互相來做對接你知道這些有多少在學校嗎"},{"start":350.168,"end":354.389,"text":"還有警政署也出來講一下話少年嫌疑犯已經有17900人然後呢比上一年還增加的12.94下面這個資料有這麼多的這些狀況當中你們彼此間沒有對接然後一發生事情你就告訴我說我們要立刻花多好時間最快時間回到學校我只請問真的只有回到學校嗎?真的只通知學校嗎?"},{"start":379.037,"end":387.426,"text":"這些人適合回學校嗎?所以證明裡面有太多的問題存在了很多人不適合學校的話這還只是960個是高風險案還有非常多的黑數我剛特別提到了你看我都不想放這期的影片"},{"start":394.494,"end":399.916,"text":"如果你照剛剛這樣說法的話教育部的這個校園系統顯示剛剛把那個數據拿出來112年高中值以下的暴力事件跟偏差行為是27000比110年還多增了1萬多件多增了1萬多件你如果把它平均起來一天平均校園的暴力事件是73件部長你有沒有看到而且你如果看到3月5日這件事情的話"},{"start":421.145,"end":427.766,"text":"這個孩子被呼巴掌呼了20幾個然後呢其他的學生就這樣看著他我都已經不知道這樣的一個事件竟然可以讓學生看得大家都很漠然然後呢我不願意放的原因是因為我看了會傷心還有脫衣服毆打的這種霸凌的影片滿天飛部長你看到這些狀況你的心裡感覺到底是什麼樣我跟委員報告委員剛才談到這個112年跟111年的這也是過去我們一直在強調不要讓孩子在學校真的有受到"},{"start":450.931,"end":452.393,"text":"你現在是告訴我因為是鼓勵通報所以讓過去的黑數可以浮上來所以數字才這麼多"},{"start":473.937,"end":490.338,"text":"這個數字通報數之後才我們說那學校應該要進一步的確認甚至如果這個通報數像委員所提到的像這個案子我一定會去追不只是一個學校真的說確實就屬實的我一定要求國教署一定要跟地方政府不要讓學校這個事情就不了了之"},{"start":491.519,"end":493.901,"text":"還有一個非常簡單的一個問題就是我們隨便舉個例子來說好了習為偏差的處罰少年離開的少年關乎所或矯正學校我剛剛所提到的誰來承接你知道還想陪你長大聯盟的家長的訴求就是很多的處罰的少年一進到少關所1到3月"},{"start":510.091,"end":511.532,"text":"一年有五成的學生會有再犯刑事案件的這樣一個比例一年有五成"},{"start":534.191,"end":544.919,"text":"這些孩子出來然後呢我們教育部各單位只告訴他我會最快時間把他放回學校通知學校那我要問學校這麼多樣的一個狀況而且這些矯正的孩子我們後面我們需要給他輔導可是他的這個債分率這麼高甚至有一個矯正學校的這個心理諮商輔導師告訴我他有一個學生放出去之後兩三個月就自殺死掉因為他一出去又被追殺然後他自己又不想再犯案"},{"start":561.73,"end":566.993,"text":"他沒有選擇,他就跳水自殺。這種事情不是只有一件。怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?所以我一直強調,矯正基礎如果沒有做好的話,我們整個的問題都會非常的嚴重。這是一個很大的問題。接下來我就要問一下嘛,為什麼少年犯有私密要再換?還有呢,他們回到學校會是一個什麼樣的狀況?你看少關所,三個月之內就把你放出來。"},{"start":585.962,"end":601.701,"text":"那時候的柯景安的這個郭姓少年就是從少關所出來把他放到學校然後再把他轉校然後造成這麼悲劇的一個產生所以呢有沒有可能讓這些孩子在出少關所的時候給他更完整的一個評估有沒有辦法做到這一點他不盡量放回學校啊"},{"start":606.221,"end":624.518,"text":"還沒有什麼其他的地方可以承接我們不要漏接但是你們又沒有對接我們誰來承接報告委員有關畫面上是郭姓少年他在我們少關所是今年的3月近年署長你不要再話說從前從盤古開天沒時間你只告訴我以後怎麼來承接"},{"start":630.07,"end":635.676,"text":"我最後好謝謝你我最後只問部長一個問題給我一分鐘部長因為是這個問題裡面因為發生太多的問題很多的家長我知道你們也就放寬了非常多我只問一件事情如果你今天是部長你變成潘老師潘文忠老師好了"},{"start":654.654,"end":656.56,"text":"如果A同學向潘老師檢舉B同學有彈簧刀的話我請問潘老師怎麼來做這個處理?"},{"start":664.36,"end":683.286,"text":"這次從這個事件我們有做了很多的討論跟檢討也來自很多學校第一線的意見為什麼會對於有關在安全檢查上面有一個傷害對象的這種特定學生會進行安全檢查甚至這些部長我知道你解釋非常多我只問你潘老師你怎麼樣處理當A同學跟潘老師說有B同學有談環報的時候你怎麼處理"},{"start":689.668,"end":704.039,"text":"您的SOP是什麼這是所有全國的老師想要看的啊我剛剛委員報告說為什麼很密集的討論跟公佈的這個事項就是為了要處理這些相關的流程那你怎麼處理你如果是一個回歸到你過去的這個潘老師的話你怎麼來處理這個狀況這個學校本來就要有一個應變的小組作業當發生這個事情不要老是單打獨鬥也是危險啊原來在進行這件事情的時候事實上還有一個跟如果這個"},{"start":716.409,"end":727.876,"text":"所以你們教育部有很多的法規需要我只要提醒部長因為我時間到了我要提醒部長目前為止老師發生事情為什麼老師都不太敢去介入處理因為老師現在處理的是一個模擬兩可的輔導的管教辦法"},{"start":731.658,"end":743.788,"text":"但是他萬一處理不當的話學生或教長可以用非常明確的刑法或是明法來告老師這就是目前我們老師的困境一個是模擬良可 一個是明確你叫老師怎麼辦?提到那個緊急的處置學校實際上一定要常態地做這方面的研練跟準備啦那不是說我在讀運氣這個是跟委員報告第二個是在這一次的注意事項其實對於老師阻卻違法的這個討論"},{"start":759.301,"end":762.484,"text":"所以剛剛光是我問潘老師這個問題潘部長你就會發現身為老師當他變成這個角色的時候其實他是處在一個非常危難的狀況如果剛剛被暴 逼同學暴 老師去查了沒有那到時候家長是不是又反過來告老師這就是一個目前第一次"},{"start":787.824,"end":788.785,"text":"我只希望我只告訴你這是來自於基層的聲音我想我們會後續在這件事情上面會再做更額外的一個做處理"},{"start":813.226,"end":814.531,"text":"MING PAO CANADA 字幕組"}]}}}}