{"id":149958,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149958","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733aa0e4cb110117a9431b0cd19bcd66f1b3f8ba9b0039caa7a6d4b87469f07609445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"10:12:19 - 10:24:00","影片長度":"00:11:41","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司林董事長修銘及財團法人中華民國證券櫃檯買賣中心陳董事長永誠、中央銀行分別就「從ETF熱賣看政府如何健全投資管道引導民間游資，避免熱錢過度投入房市」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":701,"end_time":"2024-03-18T10:24:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T10:12:19+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":435,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時12分）謝謝主席。我請黃天牧主委以及嚴副總裁。"],["主席：請黃主委、副總裁。"],["黃主任委員天牧：召委早。"],["郭委員國文：兩位，我今天排這個主題，重點其實在於游資過多，ETF是游資過多很重要的一個投資工具。我看黃天牧主委的報告當中，針對ETF並沒有說明游資過多如何做一個適當的引導，以避免流向房市。倒是央行這邊的報告比較有接近這個主題。剛剛賴士葆委員討論的超額儲蓄，確實是一個大問題，去年是3.31，今年已經預估是3.84兆。剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂資金過剩的問題，可是問題是民間的資金確實有過剩的現象，否則不會有ETF這一種投資的熱潮，最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭，這也是我要跟大家討論的部分。在後續的討論當中，我必須做一個提醒，副總裁，因為央行這個禮拜四已經要開理監事會議了，本週是央行週。臺灣這個金錢的流入，經過地緣政治還有相關的因素，導致臺商回流的資金專案已經高達三千多億，在這五年之內不能投入房地產，25%只能進入股市的部分已經要解限了。我請問一下副總裁，你有沒有注意到這個訊息？也就是8月的時候，我們有更多的資金會投入民間的游資當中。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我想這個問題還是歸咎於我們過去幾年的經常帳順差、大幅的順差有很大的關係。"],["郭委員國文：對，你解釋了原因，但是我的問題是要解決問題，就是游資過多，你有沒有什麼政策工具可以來做引導？而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行之間往來而已，禮拜四要嚴重地去面對的問題是，現在這種狀況、大家所擔心的問題嘛。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為我們的政策工具，我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形，所以委員講的這個3.8兆或3.31兆，其實……"],["郭委員國文：我現在是做一個慎重的提醒，在禮拜四的理監事會議的時候，有諸多的現象是未來跟現在的狀況造成的一個社會影響力所產生的影響。我再舉其中一個例子就好，為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此地瘋狂？原因在哪裡？為什麼會有很多人解除定存？因為以平均的定存利率來說，我抓過五大銀行長期的定存利率，才1.594%而已，我們的通膨基本上是高達2.53。事實上，你現在放在銀行，對一個定存族來說，基本上簡直是負利率啊！在基本上是負利率的情況底下，他有一個比較好的、認為比較放心的金融商品的話，他當然相對會投資啊！可是你看看我們總裁說的，楊總裁說會有羊群效應，接下來就像黃天牧主委說的，黃天牧主委講什麼？主委，你不斷地去示警，還要動用金檢，然後不斷地去警告投資人這個東西過熱。主委，老實說，明明你剛剛也在報告當中講得非常清楚，它是透明度高、分散風險，而且基本上又是適合長期持有的投資標的，那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢？好像投資ETF是一個高風險的投資商品一樣。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員謝謝，我首先要感謝召委安排這樣一個專案報告，讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明。其實我的重點是，ETF商品是中性的，重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人，而且資訊要說清楚，問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查時發現，很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中，沒有適度地讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確資訊，還有他在追蹤指數的時候，也有一些地方是需要去改進的。"],["郭委員國文：所以你警告的……"],["黃主任委員天牧：重點是……"],["郭委員國文：主委，不好意思，我打岔你一下，你警告的對象應該是投信公司，而不是投資人，你好像要恫嚇投資人說ETF的這個基金，股票型的、指數型的股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險。"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，報告委員，有兩面，投信公司要瞭解客戶，客戶也要瞭解那個商品。那瞭解商品，投信公司有責任要告訴客戶，你買的是什麼商品、它所標榜的配息是怎麼配的、它的來源是哪裡、平準金的規範有沒有確實去做，這些其實都是我們日常要監理的重點。"],["郭委員國文：其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚，我想是有標的過度集中的問題沒有錯，但是你提出來新的一種方式，依照目前ETF的主流是被動型的，你開放所謂主動型的，這種主動型的ETF基本上是放任，或者是過度信任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊！過往的基金經理人，依照你最近處罰的對象──富邦、保德信是有「跟單」的問題以及瀚亞投信有「抬轎炒股」的問題等等，也就是基本上基金經理人還會出現這種問題喔！如果相較主動型跟被動型，其實目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高、更能夠值得安心、值得相信啊！在讓投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下，你去推主動型，老實說真的能夠分攤到風險嗎？我是覺得很質疑。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這個商品也是因為國外有主動型，所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會，所以大家還在研究中，並沒有到最後的階段，可能到今年6、7月以後……"],["郭委員國文：對啊！我是說，不是業者講你就要聽嘛！我有耳聞，有一些業者會跟你lobby，但是基本上哪一種對投資人比較好？我們應該先對這個部分去做promote才對，而不是把每一種不同的國外商品拿進來，拿進來之後風險更高，不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商品整個考慮的參考。"],["郭委員國文：講白一點，你要說用主動型的部分，其實現在的基金跟主動型只是差別沒有股票化而已，不是嗎？另外，照目前這個數字來看，如果看到現在ETF的占比，你的報告裡頭提到，占整體股市也不過2.38%而已，而交易量也不到1%。也就是說，所有的投資人在這個行為上，他也知道是長期持有，所以交易量相對於占比來說是低很多的，主委，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，它的交易量其實是可以被管理的，只有1%左右。"],["郭委員國文：對啊，在這樣的情況底下，目前所謂ETF的投資雖然比例上成長速度很快，你剛剛只有講到一個重點，是比例上成長很快，但並沒有造成那麼高的風險，可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段，然後變成一個很像是高風險的投資商品，如果是這種情況，老實講，本席是很擔心，因為市場游資過多的情況底下，你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的，好不容易有一個ETF，反而要被你阻絕，還要祭出投資上限，主委，如果是投資海外的ETF，你有投資上限，本席也就認了，因為那有一個不確定的風險存在，但國內這種被動型投資的ETF，基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少，如果不好，它就會替換掉，在這種情況底下，你真的還需要進行設限嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，特別跟您報告，我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限，我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制，只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確瞭解它的資訊跟商品的性質。"],["郭委員國文：所以只有加強資訊揭露，並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂上限的限制，有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，委員，我們的報告沒有這種論點出現，我們都強調……"],["郭委員國文：沒有，我是看到新聞有寫，而且你們還有出來發言，就是有這樣的新聞報導，本席才在這邊詢問你。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明。"],["郭委員國文：我記得明明非常清楚，主委，在ETF二十週年慶博覽會的時候，你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊，而且強調這個ETF透明度高、分散風險、適合長期投資等等，講白一點，你們的基富通基本上也是在做這個事情，跟這個分散風險也是一樣的，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對啊，可是問題就是，它現在標榜的配息等這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質，包括平準金的規範是不是都瞭解。"],["郭委員國文：主委，我今天特別提這一題，就是希望你要去強調，現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所說的那些行政手段裡頭那麼高風險的存在，這會造成外界的誤導啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，如果給您造成誤會，我跟您致歉，我們報告的主旨沒有這個意思，強調的都是網紅、集中度等這些可能大家忽略的事情。"],["郭委員國文：那就適當的做一個澄清啦！但是主委，我認為你現在最需要做的是什麼？比如說這種資金過度，本席要說的是，在儘量不要流到其他地方導致炒房現象的情況底下，你還有沒有其他的作為？就是說風險懸殊的部分，其實在您的手中，銀行局有沒有去思考過調高的可能性？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，其實我們配合央行的穩定房價，包括行政院的政策，我們在2年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性金融管制的一些授信標的提高了風險權數。"],["郭委員國文：對，你們有提高，但問題是資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊！在不動產的部分啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟您報告，我們在2021年的時候對於幾家房貸授信集中度高的銀行就有個別列管，要求他們要降低，現在都有調整。"],["郭委員國文：但是在整個列管的過程當中，我們還是有看到漏網之魚，包括融資公司的部分，透過銀行來借貸的部分，而形成資本集中堆高的現象。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟您報告，融資公司的部分，對於幾家上市公司，我們都有約談過，也會透過上市櫃公司的內控，還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去瞭解他們在授信處理……"],["郭委員國文：2年前風險係數的提高，是不是需要再提高，我請主委回去好好慎重思考一下，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實風險權數已經提得滿高了。"],["郭委員國文：提得滿高了，所以不需要再提了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：短期內我們還是維持跟央行……"],["郭委員國文：是針對金融機構的部分啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，其實2年前已經提得滿高的，那次提高，業者都覺得滿高的。"],["郭委員國文：好，我們看情況啦，好不好？後續再來追問，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員的質詢。","下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-4","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","李彥秀","賴士葆","賴惠員","羅明才","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","李坤城","洪孟楷","王世堅","林楚茵","牛煦庭","徐巧芯"],"page_start":147,"meetingDate":["2024-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司林董事長修銘及財團法\n人中華民國證券櫃檯買賣中心陳董事長永誠、中央銀行分別就「從 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 697.259, \"end\": 697.459, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"郭\", \"start\": 697.459, \"end\": 697.539, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 697.539, \"end\": 697.559, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,722 --> 00:00:11,137\n謝謝主席我請黃天牧主委請黃主委請我們的這個嚴副總裁副總裁請\n\n2\n00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:46,607\n主委兩位我今天排這個主題其實重點其實在於游資過多那ETF是一個游資過多一個很重要的一個投資工具那我看那個黃天牧主委的報告當中都針對ETF並沒有針對游資過多如何做一個適當的引導以避免流向房市那導致央行這邊的報告是比較有接近這個主題\n\n3\n00:00:48,267 --> 00:01:14,117\n剛剛在立法委員在討論這個超額儲蓄是確實一個大問題去年是3.31今年已經預估是3.84兆剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂的這個資金過剩的問題可是問題是民間的資金確實是有過剩的現象否則不會有ETF這一種投資的一個熱潮最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭要跟大家討論的這個部分\n\n4\n00:01:15,618 --> 00:01:43,412\n然後在後續的這個討論當中我必須做一個提醒因為央行這個禮拜四這個副總裁禮拜四的部分已經要開禮監事會議本週是央行週看臺灣的這個金錢的流入經過這個地緣政治還有包括相關的因素導致回來的臺商的回流資金的專案已經高達3000多億而這5年之內不能投入房地產25%只能進入這個股市的部分已經要解限了喔\n\n5\n00:01:44,652 --> 00:01:51,017\n這個我請問一下副總長你有沒有注意到這個訊息也就是8月的時候我們有更多的資金會投入這個民間的一個游資當中欸副總長\n\n6\n00:01:54,304 --> 00:02:16,610\n那個報告委員我想這個問題還是歸咎於跟我們的那個過去幾年的經常在順差大幅度順差有很大的關係對你來解釋原因但是我問題是要解決問題嘛就游資過多你有沒有什麼政策工具來可以做引導而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行間之間往來而已嘛就是說禮拜四要嚴重要去面對問題是現在這種狀況大家擔心的問題嘛\n\n7\n00:02:21,909 --> 00:02:27,595\n因為我們的政策工具我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形所以\n\n8\n00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:52,148\n我現在是做一個慎重的提醒在禮拜四的禮監事會議的時候有些諸多的現象以及未來是跟現在狀況裡頭所造成的一個社會影響力的影響我再舉其中一個例子就好了為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此的一個瘋狂原因在哪裡為什麼會很解除定存\n\n9\n00:02:52,788 --> 00:03:07,541\n因為平均的定存利率來說我抓過五大銀行三期的定存率才1.594%而已我們通膨基本上是高達2.53%事實上你現在放在銀行裡的一個定存組基本上簡直是負利率\n\n10\n00:03:09,122 --> 00:03:35,357\n基本上是負利率的情況底下他有一個比較好的認為比較放心的金融商品的話他當然相對會投資啊可是你看看我們總裁黨總裁說會有羊群效應接下來就像黃天牧總裁黃天牧主委黃天牧主委講什麼主委你不斷地示警然後呢你還要動用精檢然後不斷地警告投資人這個東西過熱主委老師說齁\n\n11\n00:03:36,678 --> 00:03:58,417\n明明你也剛剛在報告當中講得非常清楚它這個透明度高分散風險而且呢基本上呢又可以適合長期持有的這個投資標的那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢好像投資ETF是一個高風險的這個投資商品一樣主委\n\n12\n00:03:59,485 --> 00:04:19,518\n委員謝謝我先要感謝昭緯安排這樣一個專案報告讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明其實我的重點ETF商品是中性的重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人而且資訊要說清楚問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查發現\n\n13\n00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:39,527\n很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中沒有適度的讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確的資訊還有他在追蹤指數的時候有些地方也是有一些地方是需要去被改進的所以你警告的主委不好意思我跟您打岔你警告的對象是應該是投信公司而不是投資人\n\n14\n00:04:40,347 --> 00:04:59,797\n你好像在恫嚇投資人說這個股票呢這個ETF的這個基金股票型的指數型的投票股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險沒有報告委員有兩面投信公司要了解客戶客戶也要了解那個商品那了解商品投信公司有責任要告訴客戶你買的是什麼商品是\n\n15\n00:05:00,137 --> 00:05:25,584\n他所標榜的配息是怎麼配的他的來源從哪裡評準金的規範有沒有確實去做這些其實都是我們要日常監理的重點其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚我想是有過度集中的問題標的過度集中的問題沒有錯但是你提出來一個新的一種方式依照目前的這個ETF的主流是在這種被動型的你所謂開放這個所謂主動型的\n\n16\n00:05:26,444 --> 00:05:48,174\n這個主動型的這一種ETF的話基本上是放任或者是過度新任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊過往的基金經理人依照你最近處罰的對象就是富邦、保德性這跟單的問題還有包括漢雅投信有抬轎炒股的問題等等基金經理人基本上還會出現這種問題喔\n\n17\n00:05:50,885 --> 00:06:09,083\n那以照如果是以從主動型跟被動型目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高啊更能夠值得安心就值得相信啊當投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下那你去推主動型老實說有真的能夠分攤到風險嗎我只覺得很失意啊\n\n18\n00:06:10,851 --> 00:06:39,509\n那委員這個商品也是因為國外有主動型所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會所以大家還在研究中並沒有到最後的階段可能到今年六七以後我不是說業者講你就要聽嘛我有耳聞嘛有一些業者去跟你拉比嘛但是呢基本上哪一種對投資人比較好我們應該對這個部分來去做Promote才對而不是說每一種不同的國外的商品拿進來拿進來之後風險更高不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎\n\n19\n00:06:40,450 --> 00:07:08,060\n委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商評審整個考慮的參考講白一點被動型的部分你要說用主動型的部分現在基金都主動型是差別沒有股票化而已啊不是嗎然後另外的部分呢以照目前的這個數字來看齁如果看到現在的這個比例啊ETF的佔比您的報告裡頭佔整體的股市也不過是2.38%而已而交易量啊也不到1%欸\n\n20\n00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:25,416\n也就是說所有的投資人在這個行為上他也知道是長期持有所以交易量相對於這個佔比來說是低很多嘛不是嗎主委所以他交易量其實是可以被管理的只有1%左右對阿如果是這樣子的情況底下也就是說目前\n\n21\n00:07:26,056 --> 00:07:47,612\n所謂的這個ETF投資雖然比例上成長速度很快你剛剛只有講到一個重點是比例上成長很快並沒有造成那麼高的風險可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段然後變成是一個很像高風險的一個投資商品如果是這種情況底下老實講本席是很擔心因為市場的游資過多的情況底下\n\n22\n00:07:48,433 --> 00:08:14,626\n你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的好不容易有一個ETF反而被你這種主角的情況底下還所謂的要祭出什麼?投資上限主委你如果說要投資海外的ETF你有投資上限那本席也就認了就是因為有一個不確定的風險存在那國內的這種被動型的這個ETF基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少如果不好的話它就替換掉\n\n23\n00:08:15,846 --> 00:08:39,832\n這種情況底下你真的還需要進行設限嗎委員特別跟您報告我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確了解他的資訊跟商品的性質所以只有加強資訊揭露並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂的上限的限制有沒有\n\n24\n00:08:39,892 --> 00:09:06,228\n沒有,委員我們的報告沒有這種論點出現沒有,我是看到新聞有寫而且你們還有出來發言就是有這樣的新聞報導可是我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明所以我記得明明非常清楚主委你20週年慶的時候ETF20週年慶博覽會的時候你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊而且強調這個ETF透明度高分散風險適合長期投資等等\n\n25\n00:09:09,757 --> 00:09:17,484\n講白一點你們這個肌膚通基本上也是在做這個事情啊跟這也是分散風險是一樣的啊不是嗎\n\n26\n00:09:18,684 --> 00:09:39,967\n可是問題就是他現在標榜的這些配息這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質平準金的規範是不是都瞭解主委我說今天特別提這一題你要去強調現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所做的那個行政手段裡頭的那麼高風險的存在這會造成外界的誤導啦\n\n27\n00:09:41,488 --> 00:10:04,217\n報告委員也許我們我不曉得如果給您造成誤會跟您致歉我們的報告的主旨沒有這個意思強調都是網紅啊還有集中度這些可能大家鼓勵的事情適當的做一個澄清啦但是我認為主委你現在最需要做的是什麼就是說這個資金過度本行要說盡量不要流到其他的這一種炒房的這種現象的情況底下你還有沒有其他的作為啊\n\n28\n00:10:05,345 --> 00:10:30,020\n就是說風險權數的部分其實在您的手中當中銀行局的部分有沒有去思考一下有沒有調高的可能性呢?報告委員其實我們配合央行的穩定房價的包括行政院的政策我們在兩年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性信任管制的一些受限的標題提高了風險權數了所以你們有提高但是問題呢資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊\n\n29\n00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:31,661\n但是在整個列管的過程當中我們還是有看到這一個落網之魚\n\n30\n00:10:49,002 --> 00:11:13,616\n就是包括融資公司的部分透過銀行來借貸的部分而形成這一個資本其中的堆高的現象我跟您報告融資公司部分對於幾家上市公司我們都有約談過也會透過上市公司的內控還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去了解兩年前的風險技術的提高是否需要再提高請主委回去好好慎重思考一下好不好\n\n31\n00:11:15,649 --> 00:11:37,559\n其實已經提高,風險權數已經提的蠻高的了提的蠻高的,不需要再提了短期內我想我們還是維持跟央行這樣一個這真的金融機構的部分啦對,其實兩年前已經提的蠻高的,那次提高業者其實都有覺得蠻高的了我們看情況了好不好,後續再來追問啦,謝謝謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝郭國榮委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4722\t11137\t謝謝主席我請黃天牧主委請黃主委請我們的這個嚴副總裁副總裁請\n19610\t46607\t主委兩位我今天排這個主題其實重點其實在於游資過多那ETF是一個游資過多一個很重要的一個投資工具那我看那個黃天牧主委的報告當中都針對ETF並沒有針對游資過多如何做一個適當的引導以避免流向房市那導致央行這邊的報告是比較有接近這個主題\n48267\t74117\t剛剛在立法委員在討論這個超額儲蓄是確實一個大問題去年是3.31今年已經預估是3.84兆剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂的這個資金過剩的問題可是問題是民間的資金確實是有過剩的現象否則不會有ETF這一種投資的一個熱潮最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭要跟大家討論的這個部分\n75618\t103412\t然後在後續的這個討論當中我必須做一個提醒因為央行這個禮拜四這個副總裁禮拜四的部分已經要開禮監事會議本週是央行週看臺灣的這個金錢的流入經過這個地緣政治還有包括相關的因素導致回來的臺商的回流資金的專案已經高達3000多億而這5年之內不能投入房地產25%只能進入這個股市的部分已經要解限了喔\n104652\t111017\t這個我請問一下副總長你有沒有注意到這個訊息也就是8月的時候我們有更多的資金會投入這個民間的一個游資當中欸副總長\n114304\t136610\t那個報告委員我想這個問題還是歸咎於跟我們的那個過去幾年的經常在順差大幅度順差有很大的關係對你來解釋原因但是我問題是要解決問題嘛就游資過多你有沒有什麼政策工具來可以做引導而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行間之間往來而已嘛就是說禮拜四要嚴重要去面對問題是現在這種狀況大家擔心的問題嘛\n141909\t147595\t因為我們的政策工具我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形所以\n152920\t172148\t我現在是做一個慎重的提醒在禮拜四的禮監事會議的時候有些諸多的現象以及未來是跟現在狀況裡頭所造成的一個社會影響力的影響我再舉其中一個例子就好了為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此的一個瘋狂原因在哪裡為什麼會很解除定存\n172788\t187541\t因為平均的定存利率來說我抓過五大銀行三期的定存率才1.594%而已我們通膨基本上是高達2.53%事實上你現在放在銀行裡的一個定存組基本上簡直是負利率\n189122\t215357\t基本上是負利率的情況底下他有一個比較好的認為比較放心的金融商品的話他當然相對會投資啊可是你看看我們總裁黨總裁說會有羊群效應接下來就像黃天牧總裁黃天牧主委黃天牧主委講什麼主委你不斷地示警然後呢你還要動用精檢然後不斷地警告投資人這個東西過熱主委老師說齁\n216678\t238417\t明明你也剛剛在報告當中講得非常清楚它這個透明度高分散風險而且呢基本上呢又可以適合長期持有的這個投資標的那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢好像投資ETF是一個高風險的這個投資商品一樣主委\n239485\t259518\t委員謝謝我先要感謝昭緯安排這樣一個專案報告讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明其實我的重點ETF商品是中性的重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人而且資訊要說清楚問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查發現\n260959\t279527\t很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中沒有適度的讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確的資訊還有他在追蹤指數的時候有些地方也是有一些地方是需要去被改進的所以你警告的主委不好意思我跟您打岔你警告的對象是應該是投信公司而不是投資人\n280347\t299797\t你好像在恫嚇投資人說這個股票呢這個ETF的這個基金股票型的指數型的投票股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險沒有 報告委員有兩面投信公司要了解客戶客戶也要了解那個商品那了解商品投信公司有責任要告訴客戶你買的是什麼商品是\n300137\t325584\t他所標榜的配息是怎麼配的他的來源從哪裡評準金的規範有沒有確實去做這些其實都是我們要日常監理的重點其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚我想是有過度集中的問題標的過度集中的問題沒有錯但是你提出來一個新的一種方式依照目前的這個ETF的主流是在這種被動型的你所謂開放這個所謂主動型的\n326444\t348174\t這個主動型的這一種ETF的話基本上是放任或者是過度新任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊過往的基金經理人依照你最近處罰的對象就是富邦、保德性這跟單的問題還有包括漢雅投信有抬轎炒股的問題等等基金經理人基本上還會出現這種問題喔\n350885\t369083\t那以照如果是以從主動型跟被動型目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高啊更能夠值得安心就值得相信啊當投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下那你去推主動型老實說有真的能夠分攤到風險嗎我只覺得很失意啊\n370851\t399509\t那委員這個商品也是因為國外有主動型所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會所以大家還在研究中並沒有到最後的階段可能到今年六七以後我不是說業者講 你就要聽嘛我有耳聞嘛 有一些業者去跟你拉比嘛但是呢 基本上哪一種對投資人比較好我們應該對這個部分來去做Promote才對而不是說每一種不同的國外的商品拿進來拿進來之後風險更高不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎\n400450\t428060\t委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商評審整個考慮的參考講白一點被動型的部分你要說用主動型的部分現在基金都主動型是差別沒有股票化而已啊不是嗎然後另外的部分呢以照目前的這個數字來看齁如果看到現在的這個比例啊ETF的佔比您的報告裡頭佔整體的股市也不過是2.38%而已而交易量啊也不到1%欸\n429480\t445416\t也就是說所有的投資人在這個行為上他也知道是長期持有所以交易量相對於這個佔比來說是低很多嘛不是嗎主委所以他交易量其實是可以被管理的只有1%左右對阿如果是這樣子的情況底下也就是說目前\n446056\t467612\t所謂的這個ETF投資雖然比例上成長速度很快你剛剛只有講到一個重點是比例上成長很快並沒有造成那麼高的風險可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段然後變成是一個很像高風險的一個投資商品如果是這種情況底下老實講本席是很擔心因為市場的游資過多的情況底下\n468433\t494626\t你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的好不容易有一個ETF反而被你這種主角的情況底下還所謂的要祭出什麼?投資上限主委你如果說要投資海外的ETF你有投資上限那本席也就認了就是因為有一個不確定的風險存在那國內的這種被動型的這個ETF基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少如果不好的話它就替換掉\n495846\t519832\t這種情況底下你真的還需要進行設限嗎委員特別跟您報告我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確了解他的資訊跟商品的性質所以只有加強資訊揭露並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂的上限的限制有沒有\n519892\t546228\t沒有,委員我們的報告沒有這種論點出現沒有,我是看到新聞有寫而且你們還有出來發言就是有這樣的新聞報導可是我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明所以我記得明明非常清楚主委你20週年慶的時候ETF20週年慶博覽會的時候你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊而且強調這個ETF透明度高分散風險適合長期投資等等\n549757\t557484\t講白一點你們這個肌膚通基本上也是在做這個事情啊跟這也是分散風險是一樣的啊不是嗎\n558684\t579967\t可是問題就是他現在標榜的這些配息這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質平準金的規範是不是都瞭解主委我說今天特別提這一題你要去強調現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所做的那個行政手段裡頭的那麼高風險的存在這會造成外界的誤導啦\n581488\t604217\t報告委員也許我們我不曉得如果給您造成誤會跟您致歉我們的報告的主旨沒有這個意思強調都是網紅啊還有集中度這些可能大家鼓勵的事情適當的做一個澄清啦但是我認為主委你現在最需要做的是什麼就是說這個資金過度本行要說盡量不要流到其他的這一種炒房的這種現象的情況底下你還有沒有其他的作為啊\n605345\t630020\t就是說風險權數的部分其實在您的手中當中銀行局的部分有沒有去思考一下有沒有調高的可能性呢?報告委員其實我們配合央行的穩定房價的包括行政院的政策我們在兩年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性信任管制的一些受限的標題提高了風險權數了所以你們有提高但是問題呢資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊\n630640\t631661\t但是在整個列管的過程當中我們還是有看到這一個落網之魚\n649002\t673616\t就是包括融資公司的部分透過銀行來借貸的部分而形成這一個資本其中的堆高的現象我跟您報告融資公司部分對於幾家上市公司我們都有約談過也會透過上市公司的內控還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去了解兩年前的風險技術的提高是否需要再提高請主委回去好好慎重思考一下好不好\n675649\t697559\t其實已經提高,風險權數已經提的蠻高的了提的蠻高的,不需要再提了短期內我想我們還是維持跟央行這樣一個這真的金融機構的部分啦對,其實兩年前已經提的蠻高的,那次提高業者其實都有覺得蠻高的了我們看情況了好不好,後續再來追問啦,謝謝謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝郭國榮委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請黃天牧主委請黃主委請我們的這個嚴副總裁副總裁請\n主委兩位我今天排這個主題其實重點其實在於游資過多那ETF是一個游資過多一個很重要的一個投資工具那我看那個黃天牧主委的報告當中都針對ETF並沒有針對游資過多如何做一個適當的引導以避免流向房市那導致央行這邊的報告是比較有接近這個主題\n剛剛在立法委員在討論這個超額儲蓄是確實一個大問題去年是3.31今年已經預估是3.84兆剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂的這個資金過剩的問題可是問題是民間的資金確實是有過剩的現象否則不會有ETF這一種投資的一個熱潮最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭要跟大家討論的這個部分\n然後在後續的這個討論當中我必須做一個提醒因為央行這個禮拜四這個副總裁禮拜四的部分已經要開禮監事會議本週是央行週看臺灣的這個金錢的流入經過這個地緣政治還有包括相關的因素導致回來的臺商的回流資金的專案已經高達3000多億而這5年之內不能投入房地產25%只能進入這個股市的部分已經要解限了喔\n這個我請問一下副總長你有沒有注意到這個訊息也就是8月的時候我們有更多的資金會投入這個民間的一個游資當中欸副總長\n那個報告委員我想這個問題還是歸咎於跟我們的那個過去幾年的經常在順差大幅度順差有很大的關係對你來解釋原因但是我問題是要解決問題嘛就游資過多你有沒有什麼政策工具來可以做引導而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行間之間往來而已嘛就是說禮拜四要嚴重要去面對問題是現在這種狀況大家擔心的問題嘛\n因為我們的政策工具我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形所以\n我現在是做一個慎重的提醒在禮拜四的禮監事會議的時候有些諸多的現象以及未來是跟現在狀況裡頭所造成的一個社會影響力的影響我再舉其中一個例子就好了為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此的一個瘋狂原因在哪裡為什麼會很解除定存\n因為平均的定存利率來說我抓過五大銀行三期的定存率才1.594%而已我們通膨基本上是高達2.53%事實上你現在放在銀行裡的一個定存組基本上簡直是負利率\n基本上是負利率的情況底下他有一個比較好的認為比較放心的金融商品的話他當然相對會投資啊可是你看看我們總裁黨總裁說會有羊群效應接下來就像黃天牧總裁黃天牧主委黃天牧主委講什麼主委你不斷地示警然後呢你還要動用精檢然後不斷地警告投資人這個東西過熱主委老師說齁\n明明你也剛剛在報告當中講得非常清楚它這個透明度高分散風險而且呢基本上呢又可以適合長期持有的這個投資標的那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢好像投資ETF是一個高風險的這個投資商品一樣主委\n委員謝謝我先要感謝昭緯安排這樣一個專案報告讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明其實我的重點ETF商品是中性的重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人而且資訊要說清楚問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查發現\n很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中沒有適度的讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確的資訊還有他在追蹤指數的時候有些地方也是有一些地方是需要去被改進的所以你警告的主委不好意思我跟您打岔你警告的對象是應該是投信公司而不是投資人\n你好像在恫嚇投資人說這個股票呢這個ETF的這個基金股票型的指數型的投票股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險沒有 報告委員有兩面投信公司要了解客戶客戶也要了解那個商品那了解商品投信公司有責任要告訴客戶你買的是什麼商品是\n他所標榜的配息是怎麼配的他的來源從哪裡評準金的規範有沒有確實去做這些其實都是我們要日常監理的重點其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚我想是有過度集中的問題標的過度集中的問題沒有錯但是你提出來一個新的一種方式依照目前的這個ETF的主流是在這種被動型的你所謂開放這個所謂主動型的\n這個主動型的這一種ETF的話基本上是放任或者是過度新任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊過往的基金經理人依照你最近處罰的對象就是富邦、保德性這跟單的問題還有包括漢雅投信有抬轎炒股的問題等等基金經理人基本上還會出現這種問題喔\n那以照如果是以從主動型跟被動型目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高啊更能夠值得安心就值得相信啊當投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下那你去推主動型老實說有真的能夠分攤到風險嗎我只覺得很失意啊\n那委員這個商品也是因為國外有主動型所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會所以大家還在研究中並沒有到最後的階段可能到今年六七以後我不是說業者講 你就要聽嘛我有耳聞嘛 有一些業者去跟你拉比嘛但是呢 基本上哪一種對投資人比較好我們應該對這個部分來去做Promote才對而不是說每一種不同的國外的商品拿進來拿進來之後風險更高不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎\n委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商評審整個考慮的參考講白一點被動型的部分你要說用主動型的部分現在基金都主動型是差別沒有股票化而已啊不是嗎然後另外的部分呢以照目前的這個數字來看齁如果看到現在的這個比例啊ETF的佔比您的報告裡頭佔整體的股市也不過是2.38%而已而交易量啊也不到1%欸\n也就是說所有的投資人在這個行為上他也知道是長期持有所以交易量相對於這個佔比來說是低很多嘛不是嗎主委所以他交易量其實是可以被管理的只有1%左右對阿如果是這樣子的情況底下也就是說目前\n所謂的這個ETF投資雖然比例上成長速度很快你剛剛只有講到一個重點是比例上成長很快並沒有造成那麼高的風險可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段然後變成是一個很像高風險的一個投資商品如果是這種情況底下老實講本席是很擔心因為市場的游資過多的情況底下\n你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的好不容易有一個ETF反而被你這種主角的情況底下還所謂的要祭出什麼?投資上限主委你如果說要投資海外的ETF你有投資上限那本席也就認了就是因為有一個不確定的風險存在那國內的這種被動型的這個ETF基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少如果不好的話它就替換掉\n這種情況底下你真的還需要進行設限嗎委員特別跟您報告我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確了解他的資訊跟商品的性質所以只有加強資訊揭露並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂的上限的限制有沒有\n沒有,委員我們的報告沒有這種論點出現沒有,我是看到新聞有寫而且你們還有出來發言就是有這樣的新聞報導可是我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明所以我記得明明非常清楚主委你20週年慶的時候ETF20週年慶博覽會的時候你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊而且強調這個ETF透明度高分散風險適合長期投資等等\n講白一點你們這個肌膚通基本上也是在做這個事情啊跟這也是分散風險是一樣的啊不是嗎\n可是問題就是他現在標榜的這些配息這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質平準金的規範是不是都瞭解主委我說今天特別提這一題你要去強調現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所做的那個行政手段裡頭的那麼高風險的存在這會造成外界的誤導啦\n報告委員也許我們我不曉得如果給您造成誤會跟您致歉我們的報告的主旨沒有這個意思強調都是網紅啊還有集中度這些可能大家鼓勵的事情適當的做一個澄清啦但是我認為主委你現在最需要做的是什麼就是說這個資金過度本行要說盡量不要流到其他的這一種炒房的這種現象的情況底下你還有沒有其他的作為啊\n就是說風險權數的部分其實在您的手中當中銀行局的部分有沒有去思考一下有沒有調高的可能性呢?報告委員其實我們配合央行的穩定房價的包括行政院的政策我們在兩年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性信任管制的一些受限的標題提高了風險權數了所以你們有提高但是問題呢資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊\n但是在整個列管的過程當中我們還是有看到這一個落網之魚\n就是包括融資公司的部分透過銀行來借貸的部分而形成這一個資本其中的堆高的現象我跟您報告融資公司部分對於幾家上市公司我們都有約談過也會透過上市公司的內控還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去了解兩年前的風險技術的提高是否需要再提高請主委回去好好慎重思考一下好不好\n其實已經提高,風險權數已經提的蠻高的了提的蠻高的,不需要再提了短期內我想我們還是維持跟央行這樣一個這真的金融機構的部分啦對,其實兩年前已經提的蠻高的,那次提高業者其實都有覺得蠻高的了我們看情況了好不好,後續再來追問啦,謝謝謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝郭國榮委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.722 --> 00:11.137\n謝謝主席我請黃天牧主委請黃主委請我們的這個嚴副總裁副總裁請\n\n00:19.610 --> 00:46.607\n主委兩位我今天排這個主題其實重點其實在於游資過多那ETF是一個游資過多一個很重要的一個投資工具那我看那個黃天牧主委的報告當中都針對ETF並沒有針對游資過多如何做一個適當的引導以避免流向房市那導致央行這邊的報告是比較有接近這個主題\n\n00:48.267 --> 01:14.117\n剛剛在立法委員在討論這個超額儲蓄是確實一個大問題去年是3.31今年已經預估是3.84兆剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂的這個資金過剩的問題可是問題是民間的資金確實是有過剩的現象否則不會有ETF這一種投資的一個熱潮最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭要跟大家討論的這個部分\n\n01:15.618 --> 01:43.412\n然後在後續的這個討論當中我必須做一個提醒因為央行這個禮拜四這個副總裁禮拜四的部分已經要開禮監事會議本週是央行週看臺灣的這個金錢的流入經過這個地緣政治還有包括相關的因素導致回來的臺商的回流資金的專案已經高達3000多億而這5年之內不能投入房地產25%只能進入這個股市的部分已經要解限了喔\n\n01:44.652 --> 01:51.017\n這個我請問一下副總長你有沒有注意到這個訊息也就是8月的時候我們有更多的資金會投入這個民間的一個游資當中欸副總長\n\n01:54.304 --> 02:16.610\n那個報告委員我想這個問題還是歸咎於跟我們的那個過去幾年的經常在順差大幅度順差有很大的關係對你來解釋原因但是我問題是要解決問題嘛就游資過多你有沒有什麼政策工具來可以做引導而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行間之間往來而已嘛就是說禮拜四要嚴重要去面對問題是現在這種狀況大家擔心的問題嘛\n\n02:21.909 --> 02:27.595\n因為我們的政策工具我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形所以\n\n02:32.920 --> 02:52.148\n我現在是做一個慎重的提醒在禮拜四的禮監事會議的時候有些諸多的現象以及未來是跟現在狀況裡頭所造成的一個社會影響力的影響我再舉其中一個例子就好了為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此的一個瘋狂原因在哪裡為什麼會很解除定存\n\n02:52.788 --> 03:07.541\n因為平均的定存利率來說我抓過五大銀行三期的定存率才1.594%而已我們通膨基本上是高達2.53%事實上你現在放在銀行裡的一個定存組基本上簡直是負利率\n\n03:09.122 --> 03:35.357\n基本上是負利率的情況底下他有一個比較好的認為比較放心的金融商品的話他當然相對會投資啊可是你看看我們總裁黨總裁說會有羊群效應接下來就像黃天牧總裁黃天牧主委黃天牧主委講什麼主委你不斷地示警然後呢你還要動用精檢然後不斷地警告投資人這個東西過熱主委老師說齁\n\n03:36.678 --> 03:58.417\n明明你也剛剛在報告當中講得非常清楚它這個透明度高分散風險而且呢基本上呢又可以適合長期持有的這個投資標的那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢好像投資ETF是一個高風險的這個投資商品一樣主委\n\n03:59.485 --> 04:19.518\n委員謝謝我先要感謝昭緯安排這樣一個專案報告讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明其實我的重點ETF商品是中性的重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人而且資訊要說清楚問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查發現\n\n04:20.959 --> 04:39.527\n很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中沒有適度的讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確的資訊還有他在追蹤指數的時候有些地方也是有一些地方是需要去被改進的所以你警告的主委不好意思我跟您打岔你警告的對象是應該是投信公司而不是投資人\n\n04:40.347 --> 04:59.797\n你好像在恫嚇投資人說這個股票呢這個ETF的這個基金股票型的指數型的投票股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險沒有報告委員有兩面投信公司要了解客戶客戶也要了解那個商品那了解商品投信公司有責任要告訴客戶你買的是什麼商品是\n\n05:00.137 --> 05:25.584\n他所標榜的配息是怎麼配的他的來源從哪裡評準金的規範有沒有確實去做這些其實都是我們要日常監理的重點其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚我想是有過度集中的問題標的過度集中的問題沒有錯但是你提出來一個新的一種方式依照目前的這個ETF的主流是在這種被動型的你所謂開放這個所謂主動型的\n\n05:26.444 --> 05:48.174\n這個主動型的這一種ETF的話基本上是放任或者是過度新任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊過往的基金經理人依照你最近處罰的對象就是富邦、保德性這跟單的問題還有包括漢雅投信有抬轎炒股的問題等等基金經理人基本上還會出現這種問題喔\n\n05:50.885 --> 06:09.083\n那以照如果是以從主動型跟被動型目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高啊更能夠值得安心就值得相信啊當投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下那你去推主動型老實說有真的能夠分攤到風險嗎我只覺得很失意啊\n\n06:10.851 --> 06:39.509\n那委員這個商品也是因為國外有主動型所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會所以大家還在研究中並沒有到最後的階段可能到今年六七以後我不是說業者講你就要聽嘛我有耳聞嘛有一些業者去跟你拉比嘛但是呢基本上哪一種對投資人比較好我們應該對這個部分來去做Promote才對而不是說每一種不同的國外的商品拿進來拿進來之後風險更高不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎\n\n06:40.450 --> 07:08.060\n委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商評審整個考慮的參考講白一點被動型的部分你要說用主動型的部分現在基金都主動型是差別沒有股票化而已啊不是嗎然後另外的部分呢以照目前的這個數字來看齁如果看到現在的這個比例啊ETF的佔比您的報告裡頭佔整體的股市也不過是2.38%而已而交易量啊也不到1%欸\n\n07:09.480 --> 07:25.416\n也就是說所有的投資人在這個行為上他也知道是長期持有所以交易量相對於這個佔比來說是低很多嘛不是嗎主委所以他交易量其實是可以被管理的只有1%左右對阿如果是這樣子的情況底下也就是說目前\n\n07:26.056 --> 07:47.612\n所謂的這個ETF投資雖然比例上成長速度很快你剛剛只有講到一個重點是比例上成長很快並沒有造成那麼高的風險可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段然後變成是一個很像高風險的一個投資商品如果是這種情況底下老實講本席是很擔心因為市場的游資過多的情況底下\n\n07:48.433 --> 08:14.626\n你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的好不容易有一個ETF反而被你這種主角的情況底下還所謂的要祭出什麼?投資上限主委你如果說要投資海外的ETF你有投資上限那本席也就認了就是因為有一個不確定的風險存在那國內的這種被動型的這個ETF基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少如果不好的話它就替換掉\n\n08:15.846 --> 08:39.832\n這種情況底下你真的還需要進行設限嗎委員特別跟您報告我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確了解他的資訊跟商品的性質所以只有加強資訊揭露並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂的上限的限制有沒有\n\n08:39.892 --> 09:06.228\n沒有,委員我們的報告沒有這種論點出現沒有,我是看到新聞有寫而且你們還有出來發言就是有這樣的新聞報導可是我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明所以我記得明明非常清楚主委你20週年慶的時候ETF20週年慶博覽會的時候你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊而且強調這個ETF透明度高分散風險適合長期投資等等\n\n09:09.757 --> 09:17.484\n講白一點你們這個肌膚通基本上也是在做這個事情啊跟這也是分散風險是一樣的啊不是嗎\n\n09:18.684 --> 09:39.967\n可是問題就是他現在標榜的這些配息這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質平準金的規範是不是都瞭解主委我說今天特別提這一題你要去強調現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所做的那個行政手段裡頭的那麼高風險的存在這會造成外界的誤導啦\n\n09:41.488 --> 10:04.217\n報告委員也許我們我不曉得如果給您造成誤會跟您致歉我們的報告的主旨沒有這個意思強調都是網紅啊還有集中度這些可能大家鼓勵的事情適當的做一個澄清啦但是我認為主委你現在最需要做的是什麼就是說這個資金過度本行要說盡量不要流到其他的這一種炒房的這種現象的情況底下你還有沒有其他的作為啊\n\n10:05.345 --> 10:30.020\n就是說風險權數的部分其實在您的手中當中銀行局的部分有沒有去思考一下有沒有調高的可能性呢?報告委員其實我們配合央行的穩定房價的包括行政院的政策我們在兩年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性信任管制的一些受限的標題提高了風險權數了所以你們有提高但是問題呢資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊\n\n10:30.640 --> 10:31.661\n但是在整個列管的過程當中我們還是有看到這一個落網之魚\n\n10:49.002 --> 11:13.616\n就是包括融資公司的部分透過銀行來借貸的部分而形成這一個資本其中的堆高的現象我跟您報告融資公司部分對於幾家上市公司我們都有約談過也會透過上市公司的內控還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去了解兩年前的風險技術的提高是否需要再提高請主委回去好好慎重思考一下好不好\n\n11:15.649 --> 11:37.559\n其實已經提高,風險權數已經提的蠻高的了提的蠻高的,不需要再提了短期內我想我們還是維持跟央行這樣一個這真的金融機構的部分啦對,其實兩年前已經提的蠻高的,那次提高業者其實都有覺得蠻高的了我們看情況了好不好,後續再來追問啦,謝謝謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝郭國榮委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.722,"end":11.137,"text":"謝謝主席我請黃天牧主委請黃主委請我們的這個嚴副總裁副總裁請"},{"start":19.61,"end":46.607,"text":"主委兩位我今天排這個主題其實重點其實在於游資過多那ETF是一個游資過多一個很重要的一個投資工具那我看那個黃天牧主委的報告當中都針對ETF並沒有針對游資過多如何做一個適當的引導以避免流向房市那導致央行這邊的報告是比較有接近這個主題"},{"start":48.267,"end":74.117,"text":"剛剛在立法委員在討論這個超額儲蓄是確實一個大問題去年是3.31今年已經預估是3.84兆剛剛央行的報告當中一直強調跟銀行端之間的互動沒有所謂的這個資金過剩的問題可是問題是民間的資金確實是有過剩的現象否則不會有ETF這一種投資的一個熱潮最關鍵的原因是在這裡頭要跟大家討論的這個部分"},{"start":75.618,"end":103.412,"text":"然後在後續的這個討論當中我必須做一個提醒因為央行這個禮拜四這個副總裁禮拜四的部分已經要開禮監事會議本週是央行週看臺灣的這個金錢的流入經過這個地緣政治還有包括相關的因素導致回來的臺商的回流資金的專案已經高達3000多億而這5年之內不能投入房地產25%只能進入這個股市的部分已經要解限了喔"},{"start":104.652,"end":111.017,"text":"這個我請問一下副總長你有沒有注意到這個訊息也就是8月的時候我們有更多的資金會投入這個民間的一個游資當中欸副總長"},{"start":114.304,"end":136.61,"text":"那個報告委員我想這個問題還是歸咎於跟我們的那個過去幾年的經常在順差大幅度順差有很大的關係對你來解釋原因但是我問題是要解決問題嘛就游資過多你有沒有什麼政策工具來可以做引導而不是用定存利率的部分跟銀行間之間往來而已嘛就是說禮拜四要嚴重要去面對問題是現在這種狀況大家擔心的問題嘛"},{"start":141.909,"end":147.595,"text":"因為我們的政策工具我們會考慮到整個金融市場的變動情形所以"},{"start":152.92,"end":172.148,"text":"我現在是做一個慎重的提醒在禮拜四的禮監事會議的時候有些諸多的現象以及未來是跟現在狀況裡頭所造成的一個社會影響力的影響我再舉其中一個例子就好了為什麼最近的ETF熱會如此的一個瘋狂原因在哪裡為什麼會很解除定存"},{"start":172.788,"end":187.541,"text":"因為平均的定存利率來說我抓過五大銀行三期的定存率才1.594%而已我們通膨基本上是高達2.53%事實上你現在放在銀行裡的一個定存組基本上簡直是負利率"},{"start":189.122,"end":215.357,"text":"基本上是負利率的情況底下他有一個比較好的認為比較放心的金融商品的話他當然相對會投資啊可是你看看我們總裁黨總裁說會有羊群效應接下來就像黃天牧總裁黃天牧主委黃天牧主委講什麼主委你不斷地示警然後呢你還要動用精檢然後不斷地警告投資人這個東西過熱主委老師說齁"},{"start":216.678,"end":238.417,"text":"明明你也剛剛在報告當中講得非常清楚它這個透明度高分散風險而且呢基本上呢又可以適合長期持有的這個投資標的那為什麼會動用這麼多恫嚇的言詞呢好像投資ETF是一個高風險的這個投資商品一樣主委"},{"start":239.485,"end":259.518,"text":"委員謝謝我先要感謝昭緯安排這樣一個專案報告讓我們可以跟大家做一個說明其實我的重點ETF商品是中性的重點是你要銷售給適合那個風險承受的人而且資訊要說清楚問題是我們在日常監理跟檢查發現"},{"start":260.959,"end":279.527,"text":"很多投信在ETF的銷售過程中沒有適度的讓投資人瞭解這檔商品的正確的資訊還有他在追蹤指數的時候有些地方也是有一些地方是需要去被改進的所以你警告的主委不好意思我跟您打岔你警告的對象是應該是投信公司而不是投資人"},{"start":280.347,"end":299.797,"text":"你好像在恫嚇投資人說這個股票呢這個ETF的這個基金股票型的指數型的投票股票基金這樣子下去的話會充分高風險沒有 報告委員有兩面投信公司要了解客戶客戶也要了解那個商品那了解商品投信公司有責任要告訴客戶你買的是什麼商品是"},{"start":300.137,"end":325.584,"text":"他所標榜的配息是怎麼配的他的來源從哪裡評準金的規範有沒有確實去做這些其實都是我們要日常監理的重點其實主委您的報告當中寫得非常清楚我想是有過度集中的問題標的過度集中的問題沒有錯但是你提出來一個新的一種方式依照目前的這個ETF的主流是在這種被動型的你所謂開放這個所謂主動型的"},{"start":326.444,"end":348.174,"text":"這個主動型的這一種ETF的話基本上是放任或者是過度新任基金經理人的可能性都存在啊過往的基金經理人依照你最近處罰的對象就是富邦、保德性這跟單的問題還有包括漢雅投信有抬轎炒股的問題等等基金經理人基本上還會出現這種問題喔"},{"start":350.885,"end":369.083,"text":"那以照如果是以從主動型跟被動型目前為止ETF以落後指標來說反而透明度更高啊更能夠值得安心就值得相信啊當投資人更能夠看得到的情況底下那你去推主動型老實說有真的能夠分攤到風險嗎我只覺得很失意啊"},{"start":370.851,"end":399.509,"text":"那委員這個商品也是因為國外有主動型所以業者這方面也希望我們能夠有一些機會所以大家還在研究中並沒有到最後的階段可能到今年六七以後我不是說業者講 你就要聽嘛我有耳聞嘛 有一些業者去跟你拉比嘛但是呢 基本上哪一種對投資人比較好我們應該對這個部分來去做Promote才對而不是說每一種不同的國外的商品拿進來拿進來之後風險更高不是造成我們更大的困擾嗎"},{"start":400.45,"end":428.06,"text":"委員您的指示我們一定會納入這次商評審整個考慮的參考講白一點被動型的部分你要說用主動型的部分現在基金都主動型是差別沒有股票化而已啊不是嗎然後另外的部分呢以照目前的這個數字來看齁如果看到現在的這個比例啊ETF的佔比您的報告裡頭佔整體的股市也不過是2.38%而已而交易量啊也不到1%欸"},{"start":429.48,"end":445.416,"text":"也就是說所有的投資人在這個行為上他也知道是長期持有所以交易量相對於這個佔比來說是低很多嘛不是嗎主委所以他交易量其實是可以被管理的只有1%左右對阿如果是這樣子的情況底下也就是說目前"},{"start":446.056,"end":467.612,"text":"所謂的這個ETF投資雖然比例上成長速度很快你剛剛只有講到一個重點是比例上成長很快並沒有造成那麼高的風險可是被你們動用這麼多的名詞跟手段然後變成是一個很像高風險的一個投資商品如果是這種情況底下老實講本席是很擔心因為市場的游資過多的情況底下"},{"start":468.433,"end":494.626,"text":"你現在沒有一個比較適合的投資標的好不容易有一個ETF反而被你這種主角的情況底下還所謂的要祭出什麼?投資上限主委你如果說要投資海外的ETF你有投資上限那本席也就認了就是因為有一個不確定的風險存在那國內的這種被動型的這個ETF基本上都會揭露它過去的成效多少如果不好的話它就替換掉"},{"start":495.846,"end":519.832,"text":"這種情況底下你真的還需要進行設限嗎委員特別跟您報告我們從頭到尾都沒有提要設限我今天談到的沒有任何量的限制只有希望在銷售過程中能夠讓投資人正確了解他的資訊跟商品的性質所以只有加強資訊揭露並沒有刻意要打壓目前的ETF說要進行所謂的上限的限制有沒有"},{"start":519.892,"end":546.228,"text":"沒有,委員我們的報告沒有這種論點出現沒有,我是看到新聞有寫而且你們還有出來發言就是有這樣的新聞報導可是我也特別要感謝您給我這個機會說明所以我記得明明非常清楚主委你20週年慶的時候ETF20週年慶博覽會的時候你還有站在蔡英文總統旁邊而且強調這個ETF透明度高分散風險適合長期投資等等"},{"start":549.757,"end":557.484,"text":"講白一點你們這個肌膚通基本上也是在做這個事情啊跟這也是分散風險是一樣的啊不是嗎"},{"start":558.684,"end":579.967,"text":"可是問題就是他現在標榜的這些配息這些東西有沒有讓投資人真的瞭解那個配息的本質平準金的規範是不是都瞭解主委我說今天特別提這一題你要去強調現階段的ETF並沒有你們剛剛所做的那個行政手段裡頭的那麼高風險的存在這會造成外界的誤導啦"},{"start":581.488,"end":604.217,"text":"報告委員也許我們我不曉得如果給您造成誤會跟您致歉我們的報告的主旨沒有這個意思強調都是網紅啊還有集中度這些可能大家鼓勵的事情適當的做一個澄清啦但是我認為主委你現在最需要做的是什麼就是說這個資金過度本行要說盡量不要流到其他的這一種炒房的這種現象的情況底下你還有沒有其他的作為啊"},{"start":605.345,"end":630.02,"text":"就是說風險權數的部分其實在您的手中當中銀行局的部分有沒有去思考一下有沒有調高的可能性呢?報告委員其實我們配合央行的穩定房價的包括行政院的政策我們在兩年前的1月初就已經對於央行選擇性信任管制的一些受限的標題提高了風險權數了所以你們有提高但是問題呢資本的集中度還是不斷的提高啊"},{"start":630.64,"end":631.661,"text":"但是在整個列管的過程當中我們還是有看到這一個落網之魚"},{"start":649.002,"end":673.616,"text":"就是包括融資公司的部分透過銀行來借貸的部分而形成這一個資本其中的堆高的現象我跟您報告融資公司部分對於幾家上市公司我們都有約談過也會透過上市公司的內控還有我們將來會透過它的融資的金融機構去了解兩年前的風險技術的提高是否需要再提高請主委回去好好慎重思考一下好不好"},{"start":675.649,"end":697.559,"text":"其實已經提高,風險權數已經提的蠻高的了提的蠻高的,不需要再提了短期內我想我們還是維持跟央行這樣一個這真的金融機構的部分啦對,其實兩年前已經提的蠻高的,那次提高業者其實都有覺得蠻高的了我們看情況了好不好,後續再來追問啦,謝謝謝謝趙偉,謝謝好,謝謝郭國榮委員"}]}}}}