{"id":149963,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149963","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a85b6e765ed2a9db987ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a6fd79bbc0b0a3b3945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:19:32 - 10:31:08","影片長度":"00:11:36","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":696,"end_time":"2024-03-18T10:31:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T10:19:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":296,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時19分）麻煩請教育部長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。部長，大家都非常關心校園暴力，也非常關心校園霸凌，但相關事件還是層出不窮，也越來越嚴重，你覺得教育部應不應該檢討？"],["潘部長文忠：針對這個議題，本來教育部就是一直視為重要的議題在執行中，也一直在精進中。"],["葉委員元之：要面對問題啦，好不好？我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題，我覺得學生人權滿重要的，但保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生也很重要，給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也很重要，所以在保護學生權利的同時，怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些想要學習的學生好好學習、安全回家，這個是教育部責無旁貸的，以現在的數據來看，實際上教育部在這方面是失職的，我必須要講是失職的，每次看到這些事件在新聞出現，大家都非常痛心。我看到剛剛很多委員在跟部長的答詢，部長都說學校要怎麼做又怎麼做，可是我就非常好奇，部長你真的知道學校老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎？你有去瞭解過嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我討論任何政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與……"],["葉委員元之：可是我跟老師……"],["潘部長文忠：包含這一次注意事項的管理，我主持工作小組會議超過七次……"],["葉委員元之：我建議你微服出巡，到學校去跟老師聊聊看，你才會知道真實的聲音……"],["潘部長文忠：我會，邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲……"],["葉委員元之：不一定啦，有時候你在他不見得會講。"],["潘部長文忠：不會啦，委員。"],["葉委員元之：那我跟你講一下我聽到的，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好，請委員指教。"],["葉委員元之：現在大家都在推正向教育，正向教育很棒啦，所以老師也不太敢罰嘛！另外就是剛剛講到現在要放寬一些搜書包的規定對吧？"],["潘部長文忠：就是安全檢查啦！"],["葉委員元之：可是實際上你知道嗎？有時候搜到一些違禁品，比如今天搜到彈簧刀可以怎麼做？"],["潘部長文忠：這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊，他就是應該保管啊！"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，他保管然後再通知家長領回嘛對不對？"],["潘部長文忠：先保管，然後看這個學生的樣態，不是說直接就叫家長領回。"],["葉委員元之：這就不能沒收嘛！有的時候家長可以領回對吧？"],["潘部長文忠：這就看他調查的結果。"],["葉委員元之：家長領回之後，隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來，然後保管一段時間再叫家長領回，然後領回之後再帶來，就這樣無止境啦！這還是針對學校老師覺得這個學生不是那種幫派小孩，他們還敢搜，如果遇到幫派小孩的話，老師敢搜嗎？老師不敢惹他們啊！老師也有家庭啊，老師如果去惹那些幫派小孩，這些幫派老大就站在門口等他了啦！這些狀況部長真的要去瞭解一下……"],["潘部長文忠：委員……"],["葉委員元之：我還沒講完，你不要急著插話好不好？因為我也沒有在噹你，我們只是討論問題。我覺得把所有問題都推給學校、推給老師，其實給老師很大的壓力，現在在每個學校裡面，很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任，為什麼？因為正式的都不敢做、都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊！所以並不是所有事情都全部推給學校，應該要找少年隊，這是我的建議啦！你找少年隊，很多幫派小孩他們背後都是有大哥、有老大的，你找少年隊去壓制他們的老大，跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則，你要在幫派混，當然另外有警察可以去處理，但在學校就是要做學生，不可以針對老師，否則的話，叫那些少年隊去找他老大的麻煩嘛！不然你叫那些老師去處理，老師回到家也是要抱小孩、也有家庭要養，你叫他去對那些幫派小孩，他敢嗎？我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題。","第二個，我建議是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員，現在高中有校安人員，對不對？有一些像軍人退伍、教官退伍去當校安人員，但國中沒有啊！實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的，所以部長可不可以研議一下，我覺得編一個預算，讓所有的國中至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員，這做得到嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告一下，委員剛剛講的這個，絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情，如果就少事法的規範，如果這個孩子是攜械，比如像違反規定的彈簧刀等刀械，並不是要學校沒收，那個其實是可以通報到少輔會或相關單位，由這些來做協助，如果遇到緊急狀態，本來學校跟警政之間就有互相支援的這種契約，而且這個做法才不會讓老師……說實在的，面對這個問題，怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔，學校的應變及輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子，事實上應該有這個機制，而不是說只在學校……"],["葉委員元之：你講的意思是說有一個機制，但就是沒辦法執行嘛！我們講的就是說……"],["潘部長文忠：不會啦！委員，你也是教育專長……"],["葉委員元之：這很難執行嘛！今天老師面對幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我剛才講的就是現在的機制啊！我在臺北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊！我們跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作？就是說當有一些學校碰到應該要支援，現在的機制也是如此啊！"],["葉委員元之：我認為一定是不夠啦！我剛剛講的是少年隊能不能直接去幫派壓制他們？"],["潘部長文忠：但是這個學校……"],["葉委員元之：因為如果不這樣做的話。你剛剛講了嘛，你在臺北縣服務的時代就是這個機制，那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，我要跟你講……"],["葉委員元之：所以問題沒有解決嘛，我現在就是因為問題沒有解決，所以才在跟你討論嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，針對你所說的這個現象，我應該再說當時臺北縣在這個方面，從一千多個中輟學生降為五百多個，當時教育局跟警察局之間的合作，包含跟學校的支持，連掃蕩學校周邊的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，如果你已經做得很好的話，我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛，所以……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，現在新北出現的這個事情你也知道啊！"],["葉委員元之：不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦，只是在那邊推來推去……"],["潘部長文忠：這個個案就是在新北發生的啊！"],["葉委員元之：在新北發生的怎麼樣嘛……"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議……"],["葉委員元之：我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在，我們要把問題解決，結果你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛、以前怎樣，以前如果做得好，我們現在就不會有這個專案報告嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：不是啦，因為委員一直覺得學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結，所以我跟你報告現在就有機制啊！"],["葉委員元之：我現在就是說你們做得不夠嘛，不然的話，為什麼會發生這個狀況？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結，委員，你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦？"],["葉委員元之：我現在就是告訴你，真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些幫派小孩。"],["潘部長文忠：不用他惹啊！校長來通報，學務人員來通報……"],["葉委員元之：校長敢通報嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：為什麼不能通報少年隊？那個合作的契約書……"],["葉委員元之：現在不是通報的問題，你要請少年隊去瞭解這些狀況、去調查啊！不是通報的問題。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，那個就是一個連結機制去處理，我把學校跟警政單位之間的合作契約書給委員看，你就會知道這裡頭有非常多學校所操作的……"],["葉委員元之：那校安人員呢？要不要增加？"],["潘部長文忠：關於校安人員，我在這個報告裡面有提到了……"],["葉委員元之：可以是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：我們會增加國中學務處副組長的部分會先來增設，說實在現在學務處的負擔很重，我們除了減課的終點協助以外，這方面會來修員額編制準則，希望能夠在上面來增加人力。"],["葉委員元之：那校安人員呢？"],["潘部長文忠：關於校安人員，其實我跟第一線也有討論過，如果說是非常少數、也不是正式的人員，這個其實在學校的運作有它的難度。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：至於學校……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼有難度？"],["潘部長文忠：如果是一個約聘的人員，請問委員，如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校，也沒有任何發展升遷的機會……"],["葉委員元之：不會啊，高中就有校安人員啊！"],["潘部長文忠：高中的創新人員（校安）是因為他本身是過去教官的這個機制之下，它就是一個體系啦！他不是……"],["葉委員元之：那你可以找高中的體系來支援國中嘛！增加一到兩人嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個部分我們可以來研議，我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我就是覺得有些學校有需求，所以才會在這邊提出來嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這方面的作法我們會採取多管道的模式，但是會來增加人力。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得你還是研議一下好不好？因為也是有人跟我反映說希望在國中可以成立校安人員，其實只要一到兩名就夠了。你說本來高中就有機制，那就用高中機制他原本在高中服務的，他有一個資料庫，請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啊！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，因為這個涉及到編制等等，我們可能要再做一些……"],["葉委員元之：編制這些都是技術性的問題，就看你要不要做而已嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：我們會有階段性的作法。"],["葉委員元之：好，再來是剛剛講的18歲以前前科塗銷，現在教育部的方向是怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：這部分當然是由司法院在主管，教育部的態度應該是這樣說：從教育來講，對於這一些犯錯的少年，還是應該要給相關改過的機會，但是否年限、時間一到就塗銷，我覺得這個要斟酌，一定是……"],["葉委員元之：所以教育部是希望維持，就是不用塗銷嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有、沒有，我要跟委員報告，比如學校也有所謂銷過的機制，學生犯了過，但是後來有優良的表現，我認為……"],["葉委員元之：我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎。"],["潘部長文忠：是啊，所以我說要有相當條件，能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了。"],["葉委員元之：很多孩子在犯案的時候，根據新聞報導，他還會跟女朋友炫耀說我做這個事情沒關係，反正法律會保護我，之後我就可以成為黑幫老大，他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦！他覺得前科會塗銷，然後假釋三分之一就可以出來了，刑期也可以減少，所以他覺得做這個事情，關一下出來以後就變大尾了嘛！就像這個割喉案的郭姓少年，他關出來之後是幾歲？大概幾歲？"],["潘部長文忠：我不是司法單位……"],["葉委員元之：大概20到21歲左右，出來之後他就變大尾了。所以我們的法律如果訂得那麼寬鬆，我覺得會讓校園安全出現更多的漏洞。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，因為司法院很重視這個議題，它會蒐集幾個部會的建議，也提到……"],["葉委員元之：我現在是問教育部嘛？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，教育部已經表達了。"],["葉委員元之：我是希望教育部可以堅持，這種東西不能塗銷啦！而且這也沒有違反保護機制，為什麼？因為說實在的，每個人走在路上也不會知道他有沒有前科，只有警察會知道。他未來如果犯案的話，警察會知道他之前有前科，或者在判案的時候，一般人是不會知道的。但是如果把它塗銷之後，很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科，就為所欲為，那善良的小朋友怎麼辦？我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在想好好學習的小朋友的立場去表達，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來我們請登記第6號洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 56.58, \"end\": 56.78, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 56.78, \"end\": 57.02, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 57.02, \"end\": 57.38, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 57.38, \"end\": 57.52, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 57.52, \"end\": 57.62, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 57.62, \"end\": 57.821, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 57.821, \"end\": 58.021, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 58.021, \"end\": 58.321, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 58.321, \"end\": 58.341, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 58.341, \"end\": 58.721, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 58.721, \"end\": 59.261, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 59.261, \"end\": 59.441, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 59.441, \"end\": 59.621, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 66.984, \"end\": 67.084, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 67.084, \"end\": 67.424, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.424, \"end\": 67.584, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 67.584, \"end\": 67.964, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 67.964, \"end\": 68.125, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 68.125, \"end\": 68.285, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 68.285, \"end\": 68.485, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 68.485, \"end\": 69.265, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 69.265, \"end\": 69.465, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 69.465, \"end\": 69.645, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 69.645, \"end\": 69.765, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 69.765, \"end\": 69.905, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 69.905, \"end\": 70.225, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 70.225, \"end\": 70.545, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 70.545, \"end\": 70.565, \"score\": 0.39}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 70.565, \"end\": 70.746, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 70.746, \"end\": 70.886, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 70.886, \"end\": 70.946, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 70.946, \"end\": 71.146, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"痛\", \"start\": 71.146, \"end\": 71.366, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 71.366, \"end\": 71.386, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 71.986, \"end\": 86.333, \"text\": \"那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 71.986, \"end\": 72.366, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 72.366, \"end\": 72.506, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"看\", 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\"end\": 153.46, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 153.46, \"end\": 153.581, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 153.581, \"end\": 153.701, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 153.701, \"end\": 153.801, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 153.801, \"end\": 153.881, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 153.881, \"end\": 154.281, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 154.281, \"end\": 154.441, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 154.441, \"end\": 154.641, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 154.641, \"end\": 155.142, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 155.142, \"end\": 155.322, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 155.322, \"end\": 155.462, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 155.462, \"end\": 155.622, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 155.622, \"end\": 155.882, \"score\": 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\"要\", \"start\": 191.425, \"end\": 191.565, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"急\", \"start\": 191.565, \"end\": 191.665, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 191.665, \"end\": 191.786, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"插\", \"start\": 191.786, \"end\": 191.986, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 191.986, \"end\": 192.006, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 192.006, \"end\": 192.187, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 192.187, \"end\": 192.287, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 192.287, \"end\": 192.427, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 192.427, \"end\": 192.627, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 192.627, \"end\": 192.768, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 192.768, \"end\": 192.868, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 192.868, \"end\": 192.968, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 192.968, \"end\": 193.329, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"ㄉ\"}, {\"word\": \"ㄧ\"}, {\"word\": \"ㄤ\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 193.329, \"end\": 193.609, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 193.609, \"end\": 193.85, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 193.85, \"end\": 193.93, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 193.93, \"end\": 193.95, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 195.885, \"end\": 224.483, \"text\": \"我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 195.885, \"end\": 196.225, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 196.225, \"end\": 196.505, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 196.505, \"end\": 196.686, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 196.686, \"end\": 196.806, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": 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0.78}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 497.458, \"end\": 497.478, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 497.478, \"end\": 497.598, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 497.598, \"end\": 497.618, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 497.618, \"end\": 497.638, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 497.638, \"end\": 497.658, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 497.658, \"end\": 497.678, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 507.226, \"end\": 523.847, \"text\": \"那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 507.226, \"end\": 507.346, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 507.346, \"end\": 507.486, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 507.486, \"end\": 507.607, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 507.607, \"end\": 507.747, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 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0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 691.939, \"end\": 692.14, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 692.14, \"end\": 692.742, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 692.742, \"end\": 692.802, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 692.802, \"end\": 692.943, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 692.943, \"end\": 693.043, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 693.043, \"end\": 693.163, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 693.163, \"end\": 693.183, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,229 --> 00:00:09,833\n麻煩請教育部長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:43,235\n葉元好不然大家都非常關心校園暴力也非常關心校園霸凌但是這個事件層出不窮然後越來越嚴重你覺得教育部不應該要檢討委員這個議題本來教育部就是一直是重要的議題對啦對啦也一直在精進中要面對問題啦好不好我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題是我覺得其實有學生人權是蠻重要的但是保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生他也是很重要\n\n3\n00:00:44,615 --> 00:01:11,386\n給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也是很重要所以我覺得在保護學生權利的同時怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些好學生想要學習學生好好學習安全的回家這個是教育部責務旁貸的以現在的數據來看的話實際上教育部在這方面是失職的必須要講是失職每次看到這些事件在新聞出現大家都非常痛心\n\n4\n00:01:11,986 --> 00:01:26,333\n那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎\n\n5\n00:01:27,492 --> 00:01:48,638\n委員我討論政治政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與對可是我跟老師包含這次注意事項的管理我主持會議還有工作小組會超過七次我建議你微服出巡到學校去跟老師聊聊看你會知道跟真實的聲音邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲不一定有時候你在他不見得會講不會啦那我跟你講一下我聽到了嘛好不好好我跟你講我聽到了請問指教對\n\n6\n00:01:52,620 --> 00:02:12,840\n現在應該大家都推那個正向教育正向教育也很棒啦所以老師也不太敢罰嘛那另外就是剛剛講說這個要收書現在是要放寬一些收書包的規定嘛對吧就是安全檢查啦對啦可是實際上你知道嗎有時候收到一些違禁品比如說到彈簧刀今天收到彈簧刀可以怎麼做\n\n7\n00:02:14,127 --> 00:02:37,383\n委員這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊他就是應該做保管啊保管嘛對嘛保管他保管他再通知家長領回嘛對不對先做保管這樣看這個學生的樣態不是說直接就叫家長領回對這就不能沒收嘛然後後來之後就家長就可以有的時候家長可以領回嘛對吧有的時候嘛這個就看他調查的結果然後家長領回之後呢隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來啦\n\n8\n00:02:38,664 --> 00:03:04,031\n然後呢?然後保管一段時間再叫這樣領回啦然後領回之後再帶來啦然後就這樣無止盡啦然後再來就是這還是針對說學校老師覺得說這個學生不是那種幫派小孩他們還敢收啊如果遇到幫派小孩的話老師敢收嗎?老師不敢惹他們啊老師有家庭啊老師如果說去惹那些幫派小孩這些幫派老大在家裡在門口等他了啦\n\n9\n00:03:05,493 --> 00:03:13,950\n所以這些狀況部長真的要去了解一下我還沒講完不要急著插話好不好因為我也沒有在ㄉㄧㄤ你我們只是討論問題\n\n10\n00:03:15,885 --> 00:03:44,483\n我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則\n\n11\n00:03:46,244 --> 00:04:11,952\n你要在幫派混當然有另外警察可以去處理但在學校就是要做學生不可以針對老師否則的話教那些少年都會去找他的老大麻煩嘛否則你教那些老師老師回到家也是要抱小孩啊也是有家庭要養你就要去對那些幫派小孩他敢嗎所以真的我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題第二個我建議啦是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員現在高中有校安人員嘛\n\n12\n00:04:12,592 --> 00:04:30,100\n對,有一些像軍人退伍啊、教官退伍去當校安人員但國中沒有啊實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的嘛所以部長可不可以研議一下我覺得編個預算讓所有的國中可以有至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員這做得到嗎\n\n13\n00:04:31,164 --> 00:04:34,687\n我跟委員報告一下我應該講這個絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情如果從邵氏法的規範裡面我跟委員報告如果這個孩子是西界比如像已經是違背的像彈簧刀等這個機械不是需要沒收那個其實是可以通報到我們包含邵輔會或相關的單位\n\n14\n00:04:51,678 --> 00:05:02,226\n由這些來做協助如果遇到緊急狀態之下本來就有學校跟警政之間有這種互相支援的契約而且這個做法才不會讓老師真的面對這個問題怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔\n\n15\n00:05:06,750 --> 00:05:33,788\n學校的應變跟輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子事實上應該有這個機制我不是說我只在學校你講的意思是說有這個機制有這個機制但是沒辦法執行嘛你也是教育專訪你知道就是很難執行嘛今天的老師面對到幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎不是啊你剛才講的就是現在的機制啊我在台北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊我跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作\n\n16\n00:05:34,548 --> 00:05:53,246\n就是說當有碰到一些學校應該支援現在的機制也如此啊我認為一定是不夠啦一定不夠我剛剛講的是說少年隊能不能直接去找去幫派跟他們去跟壓制他們但這個學校因為如果說你不這樣做的話你剛剛講了嘛你在台北縣服務時代就是這個機制那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在\n\n17\n00:05:53,868 --> 00:05:53,908\n部長部長\n\n18\n00:06:12,188 --> 00:06:24,632\n連掃蕩學校周邊的...如果說你已經做得很好的話,我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛。所以,不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦,只是...不是啦,這個案就是新北發生的啊。我當時,我跟委員報告,我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議。\n\n19\n00:06:29,853 --> 00:06:59,069\n我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在我們把問題解決你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛以前怎樣以前如果做得好我們現在不會有這個專報告嘛因為委員一直覺得說學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結我跟你們報告現在就有機制啊做得不夠嘛就做不夠不然的話為什麼會發生這個狀況不是如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結委員你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦我跟你講我現在就是告訴你真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些斑斑的小孩\n\n20\n00:06:59,309 --> 00:06:59,749\n那校安人員呢?\n\n21\n00:07:23,582 --> 00:07:27,705\n我跟在這個報告裡面有提到我們會來再增加國中有關在這方面學務處的副組長的部分會先來增設對於部分因為現在說在學務處的負擔很重我們除了檢課的終點協助以外這方面會來修有關這個設置條例這個編制準則希望能夠在上面來增加人力\n\n22\n00:07:50,231 --> 00:07:50,672\n為什麼?為什麼有難度?\n\n23\n00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:17,678\n一個人不是去了如果是一個約聘的人員請問委員如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校也沒有任何的這種發展升天的機會不過高中就有校安人員啊高中的校安的創新人員是因為他本身是過去我們教官的這個機制之下我們有同時他就是一個體系啦\n\n24\n00:08:27,226 --> 00:08:43,847\n那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力\n\n25\n00:08:45,256 --> 00:09:03,186\n所以我覺得你還是研議一下好不好因為也是有人跟我反映啦就希望在國中可以成立校園人員只要一到兩名其實就夠了啦那你說本來高中有機制你就高中機制原本的他原本在高中服務的他有一個資料庫請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啦\n\n26\n00:09:04,383 --> 00:09:24,150\n委員這個因為涉及到編制等等我們可能要再做一些編制這都是技術性的問題你就看要不要做而已嘛沒有我跟委員說我們會有階段性的做法好那再來是現在18歲以前的剛剛現在講的那個前科塗銷現在教育部的方向是怎樣這是主管當然由司法院在主管對\n\n27\n00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:43,657\n那教育部的態度應該是這樣說從教育來講就是這些我們犯錯的少年還是應該要給相關的這種改過的機會但是呢是否連線的時間一到就塗銷我覺得這個要斟酌啦一定是教育部是希望維持就不用塗銷嗎\n\n28\n00:09:44,577 --> 00:09:47,601\n我要跟委員說那是應該比如說學校也有所謂的消過的機制學生犯了過但是後來有優良的表現我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎是啊所以我是說要有相當條件能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了\n\n29\n00:10:01,937 --> 00:10:28,967\n這個孩子今天很多孩子他在犯案的時候跟他這個新聞報的啊跟女朋友炫耀啊說我做這事沒關係反正法律會保護我啊之後呢我就可以成為黑幫老大他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦他覺得說前科會塗銷然後假設三分之一就可以出來了嘛刑期也可以減少嘛所以他覺得做這個事情我以後出來關一下就變大為了嘛就像就像這個割喉案這個郭鑫少年他之後會關關出來是幾歲\n\n30\n00:10:31,718 --> 00:10:56,111\n大概幾歲?大概21歲20到21歲左右嘛出來之後他就變大尾了啦所以如果說我們的法律是定的那麼寬鬆的話就會讓我覺得校園安全出現更多的漏洞因為司法院對這個議題很重視他正在會收集幾個部會的建議教育部我現在是問教育部嘛我是希望教育部可以堅持啦這個東西不能塗銷啦\n\n31\n00:11:00,313 --> 00:11:26,251\n而且我跟你講這也沒有違反保護機制為什麼因為說實在每個人走在路上我們也不會知道他有沒有前科只有警察會知道嘛就他未來如果犯案的話警察會知道說他之前有前科或是在判案的時候有一般人是不會知道的但是如果說把他塗銷之後很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科啊我就為所欲為的啊那善良的小朋友怎麼辦所以我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在\n\n32\n00:11:27,625 --> 00:11:33,183\n大家好好想學習的這一塊小朋友的這種立場好不好去表達好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9229\t9833\t麻煩請教育部長謝謝\n14640\t43235\t葉元好不然大家都非常關心校園暴力也非常關心校園霸凌但是這個事件層出不窮然後越來越嚴重你覺得教育部不應該要檢討委員這個議題本來教育部就是一直是重要的議題對啦對啦也一直在精進中要面對問題啦好不好我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題是我覺得其實有學生人權是蠻重要的但是保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生他也是很重要\n44615\t71386\t給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也是很重要所以我覺得在保護學生權利的同時怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些好學生想要學習學生好好學習安全的回家這個是教育部責務旁貸的以現在的數據來看的話實際上教育部在這方面是失職的必須要講是失職每次看到這些事件在新聞出現大家都非常痛心\n71986\t86333\t那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎\n87492\t108638\t委員我討論政治政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與對可是我跟老師 包含這次注意事項的管理我主持會議還有工作小組會超過七次我建議你微服出巡到學校去跟老師聊聊看你會知道跟真實的聲音邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲不一定有時候你在他不見得會講不會啦那我跟你講一下我聽到了嘛好不好好我跟你講我聽到了請問指教對\n112620\t132840\t現在應該大家都推那個正向教育正向教育也很棒啦所以老師也不太敢罰嘛那另外就是剛剛講說這個要收書現在是要放寬一些收書包的規定嘛對吧就是安全檢查啦對啦可是實際上你知道嗎有時候收到一些違禁品比如說到彈簧刀今天收到彈簧刀可以怎麼做\n134127\t157383\t委員這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊他就是應該做保管啊保管嘛對嘛保管他保管他再通知家長領回嘛對不對先做保管這樣看這個學生的樣態不是說直接就叫家長領回對這就不能沒收嘛然後後來之後就家長就可以有的時候家長可以領回嘛對吧有的時候嘛這個就看他調查的結果然後家長領回之後呢隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來啦\n158664\t184031\t然後呢?然後保管一段時間再叫這樣領回啦然後領回之後再帶來啦然後就這樣無止盡啦然後再來就是這還是針對說學校老師覺得說這個學生不是那種幫派小孩他們還敢收啊如果遇到幫派小孩的話老師敢收嗎?老師不敢惹他們啊老師有家庭啊老師如果說去惹那些幫派小孩這些幫派老大在家裡在門口等他了啦\n185493\t193950\t所以這些狀況部長真的要去了解一下我還沒講完不要急著插話好不好因為我也沒有在ㄉㄧㄤ你我們只是討論問題\n195885\t224483\t我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則\n226244\t251952\t你要在幫派混當然有另外警察可以去處理但在學校就是要做學生不可以針對老師否則的話教那些少年都會去找他的老大麻煩嘛否則你教那些老師老師回到家也是要抱小孩啊也是有家庭要養你就要去對那些幫派小孩他敢嗎所以真的我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題第二個我建議啦是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員現在高中有校安人員嘛\n252592\t270100\t對,有一些像軍人退伍啊、教官退伍去當校安人員但國中沒有啊實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的嘛所以部長可不可以研議一下我覺得編個預算讓所有的國中可以有至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員這做得到嗎\n271164\t274687\t我跟委員報告一下我應該講這個絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情如果從邵氏法的規範裡面我跟委員報告如果這個孩子是西界比如像已經是違背的像彈簧刀等這個機械不是需要沒收那個其實是可以通報到我們包含邵輔會或相關的單位\n291678\t302226\t由這些來做協助如果遇到緊急狀態之下本來就有學校跟警政之間有這種互相支援的契約而且這個做法才不會讓老師真的面對這個問題怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔\n306750\t333788\t學校的應變跟輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子事實上應該有這個機制我不是說我只在學校你講的意思是說有這個機制有這個機制但是沒辦法執行嘛你也是教育專訪你知道就是很難執行嘛今天的老師面對到幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎不是啊你剛才講的就是現在的機制啊我在台北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊我跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作\n334548\t353246\t就是說當有碰到一些學校應該支援現在的機制也如此啊我認為一定是不夠啦一定不夠我剛剛講的是說少年隊能不能直接去找去幫派跟他們去跟壓制他們但這個學校因為如果說你不這樣做的話你剛剛講了嘛你在台北縣服務時代就是這個機制那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在\n353868\t353908\t部長 部長\n372188\t384632\t連掃蕩學校周邊的...如果說你已經做得很好的話,我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛。所以,不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦,只是...不是啦,這個案就是新北發生的啊。我當時,我跟委員報告,我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議。\n389853\t419069\t我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在我們把問題解決你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛以前怎樣以前如果做得好我們現在不會有這個專報告嘛因為委員一直覺得說學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結我跟你們報告現在就有機制啊做得不夠嘛就做不夠不然的話為什麼會發生這個狀況不是如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結委員你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦我跟你講我現在就是告訴你真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些斑斑的小孩\n419309\t419749\t那校安人員呢?\n443582\t447705\t我跟在這個報告裡面有提到我們會來再增加國中有關在這方面學務處的副組長的部分會先來增設對於部分因為現在說在學務處的負擔很重我們除了檢課的終點協助以外這方面會來修有關這個設置條例這個編制準則希望能夠在上面來增加人力\n470231\t470672\t為什麼?為什麼有難度?\n486550\t497678\t一個人不是去了如果是一個約聘的人員請問委員如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校也沒有任何的這種發展升天的機會不過高中就有校安人員啊高中的校安的創新人員是因為他本身是過去我們教官的這個機制之下我們有同時他就是一個體系啦\n507226\t523847\t那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力\n525256\t543186\t所以我覺得你還是研議一下好不好因為也是有人跟我反映啦就希望在國中可以成立校園人員只要一到兩名其實就夠了啦那你說本來高中有機制你就高中機制原本的他原本在高中服務的他有一個資料庫請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啦\n544383\t564150\t委員這個因為涉及到編制等等我們可能要再做一些編制這都是技術性的問題你就看要不要做而已嘛沒有我跟委員說我們會有階段性的做法好那再來是現在18歲以前的剛剛現在講的那個前科塗銷現在教育部的方向是怎樣這是主管當然由司法院在主管對\n564870\t583657\t那教育部的態度應該是這樣說從教育來講就是這些我們犯錯的少年還是應該要給相關的這種改過的機會但是呢是否連線的時間一到就塗銷我覺得這個要斟酌啦一定是教育部是希望維持就不用塗銷嗎\n584577\t587601\t我要跟委員說那是應該比如說學校也有所謂的消過的機制學生犯了過但是後來有優良的表現我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎是啊所以我是說要有相當條件能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了\n601937\t628967\t這個孩子今天很多孩子他在犯案的時候跟他這個新聞報的啊跟女朋友炫耀啊說我做這事沒關係反正法律會保護我啊之後呢我就可以成為黑幫老大他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦他覺得說前科會塗銷然後假設三分之一就可以出來了嘛刑期也可以減少嘛所以他覺得做這個事情我以後出來關一下就變大為了嘛就像就像這個割喉案這個郭鑫少年他之後會關關出來是幾歲\n631718\t656111\t大概幾歲?大概21歲20到21歲左右嘛出來之後他就變大尾了啦所以如果說我們的法律是定的那麼寬鬆的話就會讓我覺得校園安全出現更多的漏洞因為司法院對這個議題很重視他正在會收集幾個部會的建議教育部我現在是問教育部嘛我是希望教育部可以堅持啦這個東西不能塗銷啦\n660313\t686251\t而且我跟你講這也沒有違反保護機制為什麼因為說實在每個人走在路上我們也不會知道他有沒有前科只有警察會知道嘛就他未來如果犯案的話警察會知道說他之前有前科或是在判案的時候有一般人是不會知道的但是如果說把他塗銷之後很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科啊我就為所欲為的啊那善良的小朋友怎麼辦所以我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在\n687625\t693183\t大家好好想學習的這一塊小朋友的這種立場好不好去表達好謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請教育部長謝謝\n葉元好不然大家都非常關心校園暴力也非常關心校園霸凌但是這個事件層出不窮然後越來越嚴重你覺得教育部不應該要檢討委員這個議題本來教育部就是一直是重要的議題對啦對啦也一直在精進中要面對問題啦好不好我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題是我覺得其實有學生人權是蠻重要的但是保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生他也是很重要\n給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也是很重要所以我覺得在保護學生權利的同時怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些好學生想要學習學生好好學習安全的回家這個是教育部責務旁貸的以現在的數據來看的話實際上教育部在這方面是失職的必須要講是失職每次看到這些事件在新聞出現大家都非常痛心\n那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎\n委員我討論政治政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與對可是我跟老師 包含這次注意事項的管理我主持會議還有工作小組會超過七次我建議你微服出巡到學校去跟老師聊聊看你會知道跟真實的聲音邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲不一定有時候你在他不見得會講不會啦那我跟你講一下我聽到了嘛好不好好我跟你講我聽到了請問指教對\n現在應該大家都推那個正向教育正向教育也很棒啦所以老師也不太敢罰嘛那另外就是剛剛講說這個要收書現在是要放寬一些收書包的規定嘛對吧就是安全檢查啦對啦可是實際上你知道嗎有時候收到一些違禁品比如說到彈簧刀今天收到彈簧刀可以怎麼做\n委員這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊他就是應該做保管啊保管嘛對嘛保管他保管他再通知家長領回嘛對不對先做保管這樣看這個學生的樣態不是說直接就叫家長領回對這就不能沒收嘛然後後來之後就家長就可以有的時候家長可以領回嘛對吧有的時候嘛這個就看他調查的結果然後家長領回之後呢隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來啦\n然後呢?然後保管一段時間再叫這樣領回啦然後領回之後再帶來啦然後就這樣無止盡啦然後再來就是這還是針對說學校老師覺得說這個學生不是那種幫派小孩他們還敢收啊如果遇到幫派小孩的話老師敢收嗎?老師不敢惹他們啊老師有家庭啊老師如果說去惹那些幫派小孩這些幫派老大在家裡在門口等他了啦\n所以這些狀況部長真的要去了解一下我還沒講完不要急著插話好不好因為我也沒有在ㄉㄧㄤ你我們只是討論問題\n我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則\n你要在幫派混當然有另外警察可以去處理但在學校就是要做學生不可以針對老師否則的話教那些少年都會去找他的老大麻煩嘛否則你教那些老師老師回到家也是要抱小孩啊也是有家庭要養你就要去對那些幫派小孩他敢嗎所以真的我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題第二個我建議啦是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員現在高中有校安人員嘛\n對,有一些像軍人退伍啊、教官退伍去當校安人員但國中沒有啊實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的嘛所以部長可不可以研議一下我覺得編個預算讓所有的國中可以有至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員這做得到嗎\n我跟委員報告一下我應該講這個絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情如果從邵氏法的規範裡面我跟委員報告如果這個孩子是西界比如像已經是違背的像彈簧刀等這個機械不是需要沒收那個其實是可以通報到我們包含邵輔會或相關的單位\n由這些來做協助如果遇到緊急狀態之下本來就有學校跟警政之間有這種互相支援的契約而且這個做法才不會讓老師真的面對這個問題怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔\n學校的應變跟輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子事實上應該有這個機制我不是說我只在學校你講的意思是說有這個機制有這個機制但是沒辦法執行嘛你也是教育專訪你知道就是很難執行嘛今天的老師面對到幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎不是啊你剛才講的就是現在的機制啊我在台北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊我跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作\n就是說當有碰到一些學校應該支援現在的機制也如此啊我認為一定是不夠啦一定不夠我剛剛講的是說少年隊能不能直接去找去幫派跟他們去跟壓制他們但這個學校因為如果說你不這樣做的話你剛剛講了嘛你在台北縣服務時代就是這個機制那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在\n部長 部長\n連掃蕩學校周邊的...如果說你已經做得很好的話,我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛。所以,不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦,只是...不是啦,這個案就是新北發生的啊。我當時,我跟委員報告,我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議。\n我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在我們把問題解決你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛以前怎樣以前如果做得好我們現在不會有這個專報告嘛因為委員一直覺得說學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結我跟你們報告現在就有機制啊做得不夠嘛就做不夠不然的話為什麼會發生這個狀況不是如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結委員你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦我跟你講我現在就是告訴你真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些斑斑的小孩\n那校安人員呢?\n我跟在這個報告裡面有提到我們會來再增加國中有關在這方面學務處的副組長的部分會先來增設對於部分因為現在說在學務處的負擔很重我們除了檢課的終點協助以外這方面會來修有關這個設置條例這個編制準則希望能夠在上面來增加人力\n為什麼?為什麼有難度?\n一個人不是去了如果是一個約聘的人員請問委員如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校也沒有任何的這種發展升天的機會不過高中就有校安人員啊高中的校安的創新人員是因為他本身是過去我們教官的這個機制之下我們有同時他就是一個體系啦\n那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力\n所以我覺得你還是研議一下好不好因為也是有人跟我反映啦就希望在國中可以成立校園人員只要一到兩名其實就夠了啦那你說本來高中有機制你就高中機制原本的他原本在高中服務的他有一個資料庫請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啦\n委員這個因為涉及到編制等等我們可能要再做一些編制這都是技術性的問題你就看要不要做而已嘛沒有我跟委員說我們會有階段性的做法好那再來是現在18歲以前的剛剛現在講的那個前科塗銷現在教育部的方向是怎樣這是主管當然由司法院在主管對\n那教育部的態度應該是這樣說從教育來講就是這些我們犯錯的少年還是應該要給相關的這種改過的機會但是呢是否連線的時間一到就塗銷我覺得這個要斟酌啦一定是教育部是希望維持就不用塗銷嗎\n我要跟委員說那是應該比如說學校也有所謂的消過的機制學生犯了過但是後來有優良的表現我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎是啊所以我是說要有相當條件能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了\n這個孩子今天很多孩子他在犯案的時候跟他這個新聞報的啊跟女朋友炫耀啊說我做這事沒關係反正法律會保護我啊之後呢我就可以成為黑幫老大他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦他覺得說前科會塗銷然後假設三分之一就可以出來了嘛刑期也可以減少嘛所以他覺得做這個事情我以後出來關一下就變大為了嘛就像就像這個割喉案這個郭鑫少年他之後會關關出來是幾歲\n大概幾歲?大概21歲20到21歲左右嘛出來之後他就變大尾了啦所以如果說我們的法律是定的那麼寬鬆的話就會讓我覺得校園安全出現更多的漏洞因為司法院對這個議題很重視他正在會收集幾個部會的建議教育部我現在是問教育部嘛我是希望教育部可以堅持啦這個東西不能塗銷啦\n而且我跟你講這也沒有違反保護機制為什麼因為說實在每個人走在路上我們也不會知道他有沒有前科只有警察會知道嘛就他未來如果犯案的話警察會知道說他之前有前科或是在判案的時候有一般人是不會知道的但是如果說把他塗銷之後很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科啊我就為所欲為的啊那善良的小朋友怎麼辦所以我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在\n大家好好想學習的這一塊小朋友的這種立場好不好去表達好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.229 --> 00:09.833\n麻煩請教育部長謝謝\n\n00:14.640 --> 00:43.235\n葉元好不然大家都非常關心校園暴力也非常關心校園霸凌但是這個事件層出不窮然後越來越嚴重你覺得教育部不應該要檢討委員這個議題本來教育部就是一直是重要的議題對啦對啦也一直在精進中要面對問題啦好不好我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題是我覺得其實有學生人權是蠻重要的但是保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生他也是很重要\n\n00:44.615 --> 01:11.386\n給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也是很重要所以我覺得在保護學生權利的同時怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些好學生想要學習學生好好學習安全的回家這個是教育部責務旁貸的以現在的數據來看的話實際上教育部在這方面是失職的必須要講是失職每次看到這些事件在新聞出現大家都非常痛心\n\n01:11.986 --> 01:26.333\n那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎\n\n01:27.492 --> 01:48.638\n委員我討論政治政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與對可是我跟老師包含這次注意事項的管理我主持會議還有工作小組會超過七次我建議你微服出巡到學校去跟老師聊聊看你會知道跟真實的聲音邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲不一定有時候你在他不見得會講不會啦那我跟你講一下我聽到了嘛好不好好我跟你講我聽到了請問指教對\n\n01:52.620 --> 02:12.840\n現在應該大家都推那個正向教育正向教育也很棒啦所以老師也不太敢罰嘛那另外就是剛剛講說這個要收書現在是要放寬一些收書包的規定嘛對吧就是安全檢查啦對啦可是實際上你知道嗎有時候收到一些違禁品比如說到彈簧刀今天收到彈簧刀可以怎麼做\n\n02:14.127 --> 02:37.383\n委員這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊他就是應該做保管啊保管嘛對嘛保管他保管他再通知家長領回嘛對不對先做保管這樣看這個學生的樣態不是說直接就叫家長領回對這就不能沒收嘛然後後來之後就家長就可以有的時候家長可以領回嘛對吧有的時候嘛這個就看他調查的結果然後家長領回之後呢隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來啦\n\n02:38.664 --> 03:04.031\n然後呢?然後保管一段時間再叫這樣領回啦然後領回之後再帶來啦然後就這樣無止盡啦然後再來就是這還是針對說學校老師覺得說這個學生不是那種幫派小孩他們還敢收啊如果遇到幫派小孩的話老師敢收嗎?老師不敢惹他們啊老師有家庭啊老師如果說去惹那些幫派小孩這些幫派老大在家裡在門口等他了啦\n\n03:05.493 --> 03:13.950\n所以這些狀況部長真的要去了解一下我還沒講完不要急著插話好不好因為我也沒有在ㄉㄧㄤ你我們只是討論問題\n\n03:15.885 --> 03:44.483\n我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則\n\n03:46.244 --> 04:11.952\n你要在幫派混當然有另外警察可以去處理但在學校就是要做學生不可以針對老師否則的話教那些少年都會去找他的老大麻煩嘛否則你教那些老師老師回到家也是要抱小孩啊也是有家庭要養你就要去對那些幫派小孩他敢嗎所以真的我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題第二個我建議啦是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員現在高中有校安人員嘛\n\n04:12.592 --> 04:30.100\n對,有一些像軍人退伍啊、教官退伍去當校安人員但國中沒有啊實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的嘛所以部長可不可以研議一下我覺得編個預算讓所有的國中可以有至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員這做得到嗎\n\n04:31.164 --> 04:34.687\n我跟委員報告一下我應該講這個絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情如果從邵氏法的規範裡面我跟委員報告如果這個孩子是西界比如像已經是違背的像彈簧刀等這個機械不是需要沒收那個其實是可以通報到我們包含邵輔會或相關的單位\n\n04:51.678 --> 05:02.226\n由這些來做協助如果遇到緊急狀態之下本來就有學校跟警政之間有這種互相支援的契約而且這個做法才不會讓老師真的面對這個問題怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔\n\n05:06.750 --> 05:33.788\n學校的應變跟輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子事實上應該有這個機制我不是說我只在學校你講的意思是說有這個機制有這個機制但是沒辦法執行嘛你也是教育專訪你知道就是很難執行嘛今天的老師面對到幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎不是啊你剛才講的就是現在的機制啊我在台北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊我跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作\n\n05:34.548 --> 05:53.246\n就是說當有碰到一些學校應該支援現在的機制也如此啊我認為一定是不夠啦一定不夠我剛剛講的是說少年隊能不能直接去找去幫派跟他們去跟壓制他們但這個學校因為如果說你不這樣做的話你剛剛講了嘛你在台北縣服務時代就是這個機制那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在\n\n05:53.868 --> 05:53.908\n部長部長\n\n06:12.188 --> 06:24.632\n連掃蕩學校周邊的...如果說你已經做得很好的話,我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛。所以,不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦,只是...不是啦,這個案就是新北發生的啊。我當時,我跟委員報告,我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議。\n\n06:29.853 --> 06:59.069\n我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在我們把問題解決你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛以前怎樣以前如果做得好我們現在不會有這個專報告嘛因為委員一直覺得說學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結我跟你們報告現在就有機制啊做得不夠嘛就做不夠不然的話為什麼會發生這個狀況不是如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結委員你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦我跟你講我現在就是告訴你真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些斑斑的小孩\n\n06:59.309 --> 06:59.749\n那校安人員呢?\n\n07:23.582 --> 07:27.705\n我跟在這個報告裡面有提到我們會來再增加國中有關在這方面學務處的副組長的部分會先來增設對於部分因為現在說在學務處的負擔很重我們除了檢課的終點協助以外這方面會來修有關這個設置條例這個編制準則希望能夠在上面來增加人力\n\n07:50.231 --> 07:50.672\n為什麼?為什麼有難度?\n\n08:06.550 --> 08:17.678\n一個人不是去了如果是一個約聘的人員請問委員如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校也沒有任何的這種發展升天的機會不過高中就有校安人員啊高中的校安的創新人員是因為他本身是過去我們教官的這個機制之下我們有同時他就是一個體系啦\n\n08:27.226 --> 08:43.847\n那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力\n\n08:45.256 --> 09:03.186\n所以我覺得你還是研議一下好不好因為也是有人跟我反映啦就希望在國中可以成立校園人員只要一到兩名其實就夠了啦那你說本來高中有機制你就高中機制原本的他原本在高中服務的他有一個資料庫請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啦\n\n09:04.383 --> 09:24.150\n委員這個因為涉及到編制等等我們可能要再做一些編制這都是技術性的問題你就看要不要做而已嘛沒有我跟委員說我們會有階段性的做法好那再來是現在18歲以前的剛剛現在講的那個前科塗銷現在教育部的方向是怎樣這是主管當然由司法院在主管對\n\n09:24.870 --> 09:43.657\n那教育部的態度應該是這樣說從教育來講就是這些我們犯錯的少年還是應該要給相關的這種改過的機會但是呢是否連線的時間一到就塗銷我覺得這個要斟酌啦一定是教育部是希望維持就不用塗銷嗎\n\n09:44.577 --> 09:47.601\n我要跟委員說那是應該比如說學校也有所謂的消過的機制學生犯了過但是後來有優良的表現我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎是啊所以我是說要有相當條件能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了\n\n10:01.937 --> 10:28.967\n這個孩子今天很多孩子他在犯案的時候跟他這個新聞報的啊跟女朋友炫耀啊說我做這事沒關係反正法律會保護我啊之後呢我就可以成為黑幫老大他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦他覺得說前科會塗銷然後假設三分之一就可以出來了嘛刑期也可以減少嘛所以他覺得做這個事情我以後出來關一下就變大為了嘛就像就像這個割喉案這個郭鑫少年他之後會關關出來是幾歲\n\n10:31.718 --> 10:56.111\n大概幾歲?大概21歲20到21歲左右嘛出來之後他就變大尾了啦所以如果說我們的法律是定的那麼寬鬆的話就會讓我覺得校園安全出現更多的漏洞因為司法院對這個議題很重視他正在會收集幾個部會的建議教育部我現在是問教育部嘛我是希望教育部可以堅持啦這個東西不能塗銷啦\n\n11:00.313 --> 11:26.251\n而且我跟你講這也沒有違反保護機制為什麼因為說實在每個人走在路上我們也不會知道他有沒有前科只有警察會知道嘛就他未來如果犯案的話警察會知道說他之前有前科或是在判案的時候有一般人是不會知道的但是如果說把他塗銷之後很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科啊我就為所欲為的啊那善良的小朋友怎麼辦所以我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在\n\n11:27.625 --> 11:33.183\n大家好好想學習的這一塊小朋友的這種立場好不好去表達好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.229,"end":9.833,"text":"麻煩請教育部長謝謝"},{"start":14.64,"end":43.235,"text":"葉元好不然大家都非常關心校園暴力也非常關心校園霸凌但是這個事件層出不窮然後越來越嚴重你覺得教育部不應該要檢討委員這個議題本來教育部就是一直是重要的議題對啦對啦也一直在精進中要面對問題啦好不好我們接下來其實都是跟你討論問題是我覺得其實有學生人權是蠻重要的但是保護那些想要在學校好好學習的學生他也是很重要"},{"start":44.615,"end":71.386,"text":"給老師在教學現場足夠的尊重以及適當的工具也是很重要所以我覺得在保護學生權利的同時怎麼樣兼顧可以讓那些好學生想要學習學生好好學習安全的回家這個是教育部責務旁貸的以現在的數據來看的話實際上教育部在這方面是失職的必須要講是失職每次看到這些事件在新聞出現大家都非常痛心"},{"start":71.986,"end":86.333,"text":"那剛剛我看到很多委員在跟部長的答詢部長都說學校要怎麼做學校要怎麼做可是我就非常好奇就是說像部長你真的知道學校特別是老師在第一線的真實狀況嗎你有去了解過嗎"},{"start":87.492,"end":108.638,"text":"委員我討論政治政策都會邀請第一線的學校來參與對可是我跟老師 包含這次注意事項的管理我主持會議還有工作小組會超過七次我建議你微服出巡到學校去跟老師聊聊看你會知道跟真實的聲音邀請來的第一線老師一定會講真實的心聲不一定有時候你在他不見得會講不會啦那我跟你講一下我聽到了嘛好不好好我跟你講我聽到了請問指教對"},{"start":112.62,"end":132.84,"text":"現在應該大家都推那個正向教育正向教育也很棒啦所以老師也不太敢罰嘛那另外就是剛剛講說這個要收書現在是要放寬一些收書包的規定嘛對吧就是安全檢查啦對啦可是實際上你知道嗎有時候收到一些違禁品比如說到彈簧刀今天收到彈簧刀可以怎麼做"},{"start":134.127,"end":157.383,"text":"委員這一次的注意事項連這個細節我們都有一個手冊他就是應該做保管啊保管嘛對嘛保管他保管他再通知家長領回嘛對不對先做保管這樣看這個學生的樣態不是說直接就叫家長領回對這就不能沒收嘛然後後來之後就家長就可以有的時候家長可以領回嘛對吧有的時候嘛這個就看他調查的結果然後家長領回之後呢隔天學生再帶彈簧刀來啦"},{"start":158.664,"end":184.031,"text":"然後呢?然後保管一段時間再叫這樣領回啦然後領回之後再帶來啦然後就這樣無止盡啦然後再來就是這還是針對說學校老師覺得說這個學生不是那種幫派小孩他們還敢收啊如果遇到幫派小孩的話老師敢收嗎?老師不敢惹他們啊老師有家庭啊老師如果說去惹那些幫派小孩這些幫派老大在家裡在門口等他了啦"},{"start":185.493,"end":193.95,"text":"所以這些狀況部長真的要去了解一下我還沒講完不要急著插話好不好因為我也沒有在ㄉㄧㄤ你我們只是討論問題"},{"start":195.885,"end":224.483,"text":"我覺得把所有的問題都推給學校推給老師其實給老師很大的壓力現在在每個學校裡面很多生教組長都是代理老師在兼任為什麼因為正式都不敢做嘛都不敢去惹這些幫派小孩啊所以不是說所有事情都全部推給學校應該要找少年隊介這是我的建議啦找少年隊很多幫派小孩他們背後都有大哥有老大的你找少年隊去壓制他們老大跟他們講說在學校裡面要有學校的規則"},{"start":226.244,"end":251.952,"text":"你要在幫派混當然有另外警察可以去處理但在學校就是要做學生不可以針對老師否則的話教那些少年都會去找他的老大麻煩嘛否則你教那些老師老師回到家也是要抱小孩啊也是有家庭要養你就要去對那些幫派小孩他敢嗎所以真的我覺得第一個真的是要針對問題第二個我建議啦是不是在國中的部分可以增加校安人員現在高中有校安人員嘛"},{"start":252.592,"end":270.1,"text":"對,有一些像軍人退伍啊、教官退伍去當校安人員但國中沒有啊實際上國中這個問題才是比較嚴重的嘛所以部長可不可以研議一下我覺得編個預算讓所有的國中可以有至少按照比例可以有一到兩位的校安人員這做得到嗎"},{"start":271.164,"end":274.687,"text":"我跟委員報告一下我應該講這個絕對不是讓老師單獨承擔所有的事情如果從邵氏法的規範裡面我跟委員報告如果這個孩子是西界比如像已經是違背的像彈簧刀等這個機械不是需要沒收那個其實是可以通報到我們包含邵輔會或相關的單位"},{"start":291.678,"end":302.226,"text":"由這些來做協助如果遇到緊急狀態之下本來就有學校跟警政之間有這種互相支援的契約而且這個做法才不會讓老師真的面對這個問題怎麼可能由老師來單獨承擔"},{"start":306.75,"end":333.788,"text":"學校的應變跟輔導委員會對這些特定的孩子事實上應該有這個機制我不是說我只在學校你講的意思是說有這個機制有這個機制但是沒辦法執行嘛你也是教育專訪你知道就是很難執行嘛今天的老師面對到幫派小孩沒有壓力嗎不是啊你剛才講的就是現在的機制啊我在台北縣服務的時候就是這樣啊我跟少年隊為什麼密集的合作"},{"start":334.548,"end":353.246,"text":"就是說當有碰到一些學校應該支援現在的機制也如此啊我認為一定是不夠啦一定不夠我剛剛講的是說少年隊能不能直接去找去幫派跟他們去跟壓制他們但這個學校因為如果說你不這樣做的話你剛剛講了嘛你在台北縣服務時代就是這個機制那為什麼到現在問題還是一直存在"},{"start":353.868,"end":353.908,"text":"部長 部長"},{"start":372.188,"end":384.632,"text":"連掃蕩學校周邊的...如果說你已經做得很好的話,我們今天不需要在這邊討論這個專題嘛。所以,不用去扯什麼新北不新北啦,只是...不是啦,這個案就是新北發生的啊。我當時,我跟委員報告,我每兩週會主持一次這樣的會議。"},{"start":389.853,"end":419.069,"text":"我現在是在這邊跟你討論說這個問題還是繼續存在我們把問題解決你跟我扯說在新北幹嘛以前怎樣以前如果做得好我們現在不會有這個專報告嘛因為委員一直覺得說學校跟少年隊之間沒有連結我跟你們報告現在就有機制啊做得不夠嘛就做不夠不然的話為什麼會發生這個狀況不是如果學校碰到孩子也不願意跟警政單位連結委員你覺得這個情況應該怎麼辦我跟你講我現在就是告訴你真實的狀況就是很多老師也不敢去惹這些斑斑的小孩"},{"start":419.309,"end":419.749,"text":"那校安人員呢?"},{"start":443.582,"end":447.705,"text":"我跟在這個報告裡面有提到我們會來再增加國中有關在這方面學務處的副組長的部分會先來增設對於部分因為現在說在學務處的負擔很重我們除了檢課的終點協助以外這方面會來修有關這個設置條例這個編制準則希望能夠在上面來增加人力"},{"start":470.231,"end":470.672,"text":"為什麼?為什麼有難度?"},{"start":486.55,"end":497.678,"text":"一個人不是去了如果是一個約聘的人員請問委員如果單獨一個人永遠就在這個學校也沒有任何的這種發展升天的機會不過高中就有校安人員啊高中的校安的創新人員是因為他本身是過去我們教官的這個機制之下我們有同時他就是一個體系啦"},{"start":507.226,"end":523.847,"text":"那你可以找高中體系來支援國中嗎?這個我們可研議,我只是跟委員先報告這個階段我們會先做什麼?尤其有些學校有需求才會這邊提出來我剛剛跟委員報告說他的做法我們會採取多管道的模式但是會來增加人力"},{"start":525.256,"end":543.186,"text":"所以我覺得你還是研議一下好不好因為也是有人跟我反映啦就希望在國中可以成立校園人員只要一到兩名其實就夠了啦那你說本來高中有機制你就高中機制原本的他原本在高中服務的他有一個資料庫請他來國中一到兩位就可以了啦"},{"start":544.383,"end":564.15,"text":"委員這個因為涉及到編制等等我們可能要再做一些編制這都是技術性的問題你就看要不要做而已嘛沒有我跟委員說我們會有階段性的做法好那再來是現在18歲以前的剛剛現在講的那個前科塗銷現在教育部的方向是怎樣這是主管當然由司法院在主管對"},{"start":564.87,"end":583.657,"text":"那教育部的態度應該是這樣說從教育來講就是這些我們犯錯的少年還是應該要給相關的這種改過的機會但是呢是否連線的時間一到就塗銷我覺得這個要斟酌啦一定是教育部是希望維持就不用塗銷嗎"},{"start":584.577,"end":587.601,"text":"我要跟委員說那是應該比如說學校也有所謂的消過的機制學生犯了過但是後來有優良的表現我覺得要塗銷這個事情要非常謹慎是啊所以我是說要有相當條件能夠確認到孩子確實是改過了"},{"start":601.937,"end":628.967,"text":"這個孩子今天很多孩子他在犯案的時候跟他這個新聞報的啊跟女朋友炫耀啊說我做這事沒關係反正法律會保護我啊之後呢我就可以成為黑幫老大他們現在做很多事情是故意的啦他覺得說前科會塗銷然後假設三分之一就可以出來了嘛刑期也可以減少嘛所以他覺得做這個事情我以後出來關一下就變大為了嘛就像就像這個割喉案這個郭鑫少年他之後會關關出來是幾歲"},{"start":631.718,"end":656.111,"text":"大概幾歲?大概21歲20到21歲左右嘛出來之後他就變大尾了啦所以如果說我們的法律是定的那麼寬鬆的話就會讓我覺得校園安全出現更多的漏洞因為司法院對這個議題很重視他正在會收集幾個部會的建議教育部我現在是問教育部嘛我是希望教育部可以堅持啦這個東西不能塗銷啦"},{"start":660.313,"end":686.251,"text":"而且我跟你講這也沒有違反保護機制為什麼因為說實在每個人走在路上我們也不會知道他有沒有前科只有警察會知道嘛就他未來如果犯案的話警察會知道說他之前有前科或是在判案的時候有一般人是不會知道的但是如果說把他塗銷之後很多人就會覺得反正沒有前科啊我就為所欲為的啊那善良的小朋友怎麼辦所以我覺得教育部這個部分希望能夠站在"},{"start":687.625,"end":693.183,"text":"大家好好想學習的這一塊小朋友的這種立場好不好去表達好謝謝"}]}}}}