{"id":149968,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149968","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a6132fe81283fc30387ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a6d71fa32a71faafad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"10:31:20 - 10:44:47","影片長度":"00:13:27","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":807,"end_time":"2024-03-18T10:44:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T10:31:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":386,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（10時31分）主席謝謝，麻煩請潘部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：潘部長，去年韓國影集「黑暗榮耀」用校園霸凌的題材成為全球的排行冠軍，現在很多人重視校園霸凌的問題，本席先就教幾個校園霸凌的問題。有民調顯示，近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校是安全的，你有沒有看到這樣的報導？"],["潘部長文忠：因為過去也有很多的相關調查、相關資料，只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀地去確認過。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年平均有二萬六千多件，平均每天發生71件的暴力事件。去年調查發現有三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全，你不覺得這很諷刺嗎？通常來講，家庭、校園合理上來說應該是比較安全的地方，但是居然有三成的兒少，不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為在學校不安全。我們這幾年投入那麼多的努力，到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，校園安全還有霸凌的議題一定要持續的來努力，這個毋庸置疑。剛才委員談到數據的部分，我跟委員報告，112年相較於111年，高中以下大概多八千多件，其實是因為我們一直要求學校通報不要隱匿，因為通報才有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我就直接請問部長，你覺得現在數據上升是因為通報變多，還是案件變多？"],["潘部長文忠：這個要進一步去做確認。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果你沒有辦法確認，你為什麼、憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多？這是你的邏輯啊！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員，因為類型其實一直在擴大。當中被霸凌的，比如通報數是三千多件，確認數大概是二百多件。我是以霸凌……因為霸凌有它的定義，比如孩子跟同學發生衝突，他覺得被霸凌。但是如果進一步的去確認、是不是應該要再確認，我只是跟委員報告我們掌握到的數據，就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事……"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，而且也不應該有過去這種隱匿的陋習，對不對？"],["潘部長文忠：對，所以委員那一次還考我……"],["洪委員孟楷：我再請教你……"],["潘部長文忠：那個什麼通報電話的事情，其實我們後來改成1853，委員知道嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我再請教你好不好？針對現在有新聞媒體報導，公立體制崩壞，孩子推向私中，有沒有注意到這樣的新聞？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我要這樣子講，如果以我們在……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在很多人會覺得是不是因為霸凌事件頻傳，致今年明星私中傳出報考人數激增，私立中學比頂尖大學還要難考。這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候，我們要怎麼樣重建我們的公立體系？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，當然這是一個比較普遍的……"],["洪委員孟楷：今年有沒有注意到這樣的數據？私中的報考人數變多？有沒有？"],["潘部長文忠：你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分家長，我相信只要看到新聞，都是難免的，這個我一定要承認……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那有沒有注意到？"],["潘部長文忠：但是我跟委員報告……沒有，我要講的是，委員知道嘛，今年升國一……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席過去都覺得你算是一個好溝通的人，但是奇怪，好像從這一個會期開始，你也有點焦躁？"],["潘部長文忠：不會啦！跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，你先聽好本席的問題，聽完問題、針對問題解決、回答問題可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我就是要回答委員嘛？"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有注意到今年私中……"],["潘部長文忠：有！今年升國一的人數總共是21萬，相較於去年是18萬，整整多3萬1,000……"],["洪委員孟楷：多3萬1,000是多多少比例？將近……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，你把它換算過去你就會知道……"],["洪委員孟楷：將近兩成喔！"],["潘部長文忠：你就會知道為什麼去讀私中的……像新北、你服務的新北要增加200班。如果以比例來看，本來就想要進去私中一定會……因為私中的名額不是一直變大，它就是固定的。所以我說這個人數是非常特殊的，龍年跟兔年之間，光國一就差了3萬1,000人，就是明年要升國一，所以從那個數據……我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息，我也請署長一定要特別去留意。但是對於私中過去因為私校法第五十七條還是第幾條有開放，讓私立學校可以用各種的方式……過去委員會也經常指教，說像中部那種小型聯考……說實在，臺灣走過9年義務教育後還再出現這個現象，我覺得教育機關是應該要來慎重的處理。孩子其實是為了擠這個窄門，結果……說真話放棄了……之前才有一個家長規定了可怕的課程表，這個也都會讓這個社會及大家省思，教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項。我要跟委員報告的是，我們有注意到這個議題……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我們先不要把話岔遠，我覺得重點是現在霸凌事件頻傳，普遍家長如果不信任公立學校，造成大家往私校擠，會造成兩個現象：一個是越來越多人可能會去私立學校報考；另外一個部分，公立學校的老師、教職員也會有士氣低落的影響，等一下再來跟你就教這個部分，你剛剛也提到了，非常好，本席等一下會問。我想先請教，現在很多時候看到校園霸凌的影片在LINE群組轉傳，我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片。本席之前也有提過，就是說會有霸凌事件、會有其他人拍影片，其實某種程度上他是在欺負那個被害者，他是想要取樂、他是想要嘲笑、他想要把被害者受辱的畫面給拍下來，這是一部分。另外一部分可能是當下他想要做個紀錄，譬如說像上上禮拜有學生跟老師發生衝突的時候，就是教室裡面的同學當場把他拍下來。我現在先請教霸凌影片出來之後的處理機制，有沒有跟我們相關單位聯繫做下架以及後續的心理輔導？"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員提醒。我跟委員報告，近期有幾個校園這個事件，因為在那個平臺上面，我們就會要求下架，因為一定會掌握到，就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架要求。至於委員剛才提到有些被download下來以後就在社群裡面……"],["洪委員孟楷：尤其是校園。"],["潘部長文忠：對，這個是比較難的，因為它已經被……但是在那個平臺裡面，我們第一時間一定會這樣做。我也跟委員報告，這個我們真的要再努力。之前也有一個影片不知道委員有沒有看到，就是學生把老師的手壓在……"],["洪委員孟楷：黑板。"],["潘部長文忠：然後用什麼……"],["洪委員孟楷：板擦嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：結果查證以後，那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，也是在新北的一個學校。"],["洪委員孟楷：是老師講不是？同學講不是？"],["潘部長文忠：他們說……"],["洪委員孟楷：還是你聽學校的講法？"],["潘部長文忠：他們說當時他們在做一個戲劇，學校正式求證了，而且也有正式說明、有對外說明。我要跟委員報告的是，網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面……像是把學校拍戲劇的影片當成霸淩影片，這對社會來講也是很震撼。學生把老師綁在後頭，然後用什麼板擦去弄……那個片子我第一時間就請署長去確實地查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情。後來一查，瞭解是新北汐止某個區域的學校，他們在進行什麼戲劇，結果就這樣po上網路，這個我想對社會……尤其剛才委員談到，很多家長如果看到這個會覺得公立學校到底發生了什麼事？那是一所公立學校。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在要問的是，在霸凌影片的部分，我們有做什麼後續的輔導？"],["潘部長文忠：我們一定會先下架，像這一些因為還是會要求縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面，因為有雙方，這個部分確實不是說下架就沒事了，一定會去追蹤到，因為這個可能就會進到、多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌，尤其是生對生的後續處置作業，一直到這個案子真正的做了一些處置。"],["洪委員孟楷：剛剛部長還有提到，就是葉元之委員有問到帶彈簧刀的部分，我先確認一下，你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎？是嘛！彈簧刀嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：葉委員說的是彈簧刀。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果是彈簧刀的話，我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員，少事法的規範就是這樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：是什麼樣子？"],["潘部長文忠：就是帶著刀械，這個本來就是可以通報的。"],["洪委員孟楷：對啊！"],["潘部長文忠：那不是沒收的概念而已喔！"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這樣的一個方向？"],["潘部長文忠：我有啊！因為葉委員一直沒有在……我要跟他報告說在少事法的規範裡，已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥，也不是讓學校單打獨鬥，你本來就可以通報……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席要特別強調的是不只是少事法，社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念。"],["潘部長文忠：是，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥刀械管制條例裡面規範到彈簧刀，但實際上它的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用，而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便地隨時攜帶，所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話，該通報、該處置的本來就應該要處置啊！"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個化外之地？所以部長你正式的再做一次強調，如果老師搜到學生有帶任何的違禁品，尤其是有傷人的利器的時候，老師應該怎麼做？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，本來學校如果有碰到這種情形就有通報，這個通報當然就可以通報到我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：還有警察機關。"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：警察機關……"],["潘部長文忠：還有少輔會。"],["洪委員孟楷：警務機關，然後少年隊，對不對？最後，本席也要再1分鐘的時間來說明一下，剛剛你有提到高中的部分。在這一次我們有提到高中免學費，就開始要推動高中免學費，但是有所謂的排富條款，可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費，但是有一群人沒有被補助到，是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：對，因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候，在委員會這邊，當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常清楚的但書……"],["洪委員孟楷：今年2月高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員，那個法規就是有一個但書啊！當時我有強調這個但書要不要去處理，但是朝野的立委在這上面有非常歧異的看法，所以當時立法上面就是排除。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以是立法的原因嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：現在法規在……委員，我再請他們把法規給委員看。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們今年要推動的時候說這是政策面的考量？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員，那個法規裡面當時……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以說是很多的學校……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，它是有……"],["洪委員孟楷：私校的家長是被排除在外的？"],["潘部長文忠：對，它是有三種，一種就是直升到那個學校，辦理獨招，它是從招生不是從貧富的，從招生上面的規範。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！就是從招生的規定啊！"],["潘部長文忠：對、對、對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是本席現在講的是這樣子有多少人、有多少學生？"],["潘部長文忠：好像兩千多位。"],["洪委員孟楷：兩千多個學生？"],["潘部長文忠：一屆啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在一屆兩千多個學生，這兩千多個學生變成是在整個政策下面，明明政府宣傳的是高中免學費，但是有兩千多個學生好像他們就不是高中生一樣，為什麼會突然間被這樣子排除在外？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，因為這個涉及到入學當時的規範，這個當時在……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在提出來，不管是什麼樣的原因，我現在講的是結果，結果就是有這樣，並且本席在今年開始，因為你們在已經開始實施之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了，原來不是說政府宣傳很多高中免學費啊，但是他們孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入？這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊！他就一直問我們說難道他們不是臺灣人嗎？難道他們沒有納稅嗎？難道他們不是一般高中生嗎？確實他們也是高中生啊！要不要補救？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個涉及到修法。"],["洪委員孟楷：要不要檢討？"],["潘部長文忠：可以研議啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：可以研議？"],["潘部長文忠：但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦！因為那個要修高級中等教育法。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人，並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，預算絕對不是大的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是因為不是問題，所以我們才會問說為什麼還要分族群？為什麼你還要分化、為什麼還要搞特權？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調的，我把那個資料給你參考，你就會知道……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席也有看過那個資料，但是重點在於這是你們的政策，不用再推給立法院……"],["潘部長文忠：沒有、沒有、沒有……"],["洪委員孟楷：你們的政策要推動……"],["潘部長文忠：委員……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席具體要求教育部3天內提供本席資料，這個族群到底有多少、預計的預算以及後續你們要怎麼處理跟補救，可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好，在政策方面的討論我們本來就有整理過，OK。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪委員。","接下來請郭昱晴委員，在郭委員質詢完畢之後我們就休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 104.065, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 104.065, \"end\": 104.825, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 104.825, \"end\": 104.945, \"score\": 0.587}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 104.945, \"end\": 105.165, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 105.165, \"end\": 105.305, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 105.305, \"end\": 105.445, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 105.445, \"end\": 105.686, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 105.686, \"end\": 105.846, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 105.846, \"end\": 105.866, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 107.226, \"end\": 122.861, \"text\": \"這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 107.226, \"end\": 107.346, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": 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\"大\", \"start\": 122.34, \"end\": 122.48, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 122.48, \"end\": 122.5, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 122.5, \"end\": 122.56, \"score\": 0.557}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 122.56, \"end\": 122.841, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 122.841, \"end\": 122.861, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 134.092, \"end\": 144.842, \"text\": \"我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對 對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 134.092, \"end\": 134.193, \"score\": 0.559}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 134.193, \"end\": 134.293, \"score\": 0.554}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 134.293, \"end\": 134.433, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"霸\", \"start\": 134.433, \"end\": 134.593, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"凌\", \"start\": 134.593, \"end\": 135.754, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 781.914, \"end\": 781.934, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 781.934, \"end\": 781.954, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,547 --> 00:00:08,078\n主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,618 --> 00:00:36,183\n委員好來潘部長去年韓國瑜及黑暗榮耀用校園暴力來題材讓造成全球也是排行冠軍那現在很多人重視到校園暴力的問題那本席先就教幾個校園暴力的問題有民調顯示說有近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全你有沒有看到這樣的一個報導\n\n3\n00:00:37,339 --> 00:01:02,616\n因為過去也有很多的相關調查相關資料只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀的去確認過平均高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年有兩萬六千多件平均每天發生71件的暴力事件那去年調查發現有三成的兒校不認為自己在學校安全你不覺得這很諷刺嗎\n\n4\n00:01:04,031 --> 00:01:18,481\n所以通常來講家庭、校園感覺應該是合理上來說比較安全的地方但是居然有三成的兒校不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為是說在學校不安全我們這幾年投入那麼多的一個努力到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況\n\n5\n00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:45,866\n我跟委員報告我想校園安全還有霸凌的這個議題那一定是要持續的來努力這個毋庸置疑那剛才委員談到那個數據的部分我跟委員報告12年相較於11年多大概8000多總個啦高中以下多8000多件的這個部分其實是因為我們一直比較希望要求學校通報不要隱匿因為通報才會有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情\n\n6\n00:01:47,226 --> 00:02:02,861\n這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件\n\n7\n00:02:14,092 --> 00:02:24,842\n我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你\n\n8\n00:02:40,296 --> 00:02:40,336\n主席\n\n9\n00:02:58,194 --> 00:03:27,051\n因為現在很多人會覺得是說是不是因為這個霸凌的事件頻傳而今年民心私中傳出報考的人數激增私立中學比頂尖的大學還要難考那這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候我們怎麼樣重建我們公立體系我跟委員報告當然這個是一個比較普遍的這樣子的一個今年有沒有注意到這樣的一個數據私中的報考人數真的變多你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分教長我相信只要看到新聞難免\n\n10\n00:03:28,112 --> 00:03:28,412\n今年升國一﹗\n\n11\n00:03:51,924 --> 00:04:08,074\n總共人數是21萬相較於去年是18萬整整多三萬一千如果三萬一千多多少比例將近兩成你就會知道為什麼去讀師中的像你服務的新北新北要增加兩百班\n\n12\n00:04:09,314 --> 00:04:23,239\n這個方法如果以比例來看你要去想本來就想要去進去進入師中的一定會因為師中的民口不是一直變大嗎他就固定的所以我就這個人數是非常特殊的龍年跟兔年之間差了三萬一千人光國一\n\n13\n00:04:24,559 --> 00:04:46,156\n明年要升國一所以從那個數據我想我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息我也請署長一定要特別去留意但是對於師中過去因為私校法有一個57條還是第幾條有開放讓私立學校可以用各種的方式過去委員也經常指教不是委員委員會這邊都說像中部那種小型年考的說實在\n\n14\n00:04:47,618 --> 00:05:08,796\n9年義務教育台灣走過後還在出現這個現象這個我覺得我們教育機關是應該要來慎重的注意啦孩子即使是為了擠這個窄門結果說真話放棄了不然之前才有一個家長那個可怕的課程表這個也都是我們會覺得這個社會大家都在省思教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項\n\n15\n00:05:10,358 --> 00:05:33,351\n我們先不要把話插遠啦我覺得是說最重點是說現在霸凌事件頻傳造成普遍家長若不信任這個公立學校而造成大家是往私校擠就造成兩個現象嘛一個是越來越多人可能會去針對私立學校的一個報考那另外一個部分就是說對於公立學校我們的老師我們的教職員也會有士氣低落的影響嘛\n\n16\n00:05:34,392 --> 00:05:58,974\n等一下再來跟你就教這個部分你剛剛也提到了非常好本席等一下會問但我先講請教校園霸凌影片現在很多時候看到LINE群組轉傳我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片本席之前也有提過就是說會有霸凌事件而會有其他人拍影片進夢的程度上他是要在欺負那個被害者他是想要在取樂他是想要在嘲笑他是想要把被害者\n\n17\n00:06:02,957 --> 00:06:19,011\n這一個部分另外一個部分可能是當下他想要做個記錄比如說像上禮拜有這個學生跟老師的這個衝突的時候就是當場教室裡面的同學把他拍下來那我現在先請教說霸凌影片出來之後的這個處理機制\n\n18\n00:06:20,572 --> 00:06:44,989\n有沒有跟我們相關單位來聯繫去做這個下架以及做心理後續的輔導是,謝謝委員這個提醒我跟你們報告就是近期有幾個校園的這個事件上因為在那個平台上面我們就會請要求學校因為一定會掌握到就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架的要求至於委員剛才提到有些被Download下來以後就在那個社群裡面尤其是校園\n\n19\n00:06:46,090 --> 00:07:08,491\n對這個是比較難的因為他已經被但是在那個平台裡面我們第一時間已經會這樣做那我也跟委員報告這個真的我們要再努力了之前也有一個影片我不知道我有沒有看到就是學生把老師什麼時候壓在然後用什麼結果在查證以後那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情不是嗎他不是不是也是在新北的一個學校\n\n20\n00:07:09,311 --> 00:07:15,497\n是老師講不是?同學講不是?還是你聽學校的講法?學校正式求證而且也正式說明有對外說明我要跟委員報告是網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面當然像學校一個拍戲劇的影片結果把它當成\n\n21\n00:07:30,292 --> 00:07:44,145\n這個對非常多社會也是很震撼學生把老師綁在後頭然後用什麼板叉去弄那個騙子我就請署長第一次確實去查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情後來一查是瞭解新北的、汐止的某個區域的學校\n\n22\n00:07:44,665 --> 00:07:46,187\n那我現在要問的是說在霸凌影片的部分我們怎麼樣有做後續的一個輔導\n\n23\n00:08:01,836 --> 00:08:28,493\n我們就是一定會先做下架那之後如果像這一些因為還是會要求到縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面因為有雙方這個部分其實我們不是說下架就沒事了一定會去追蹤到因為這個可能就會進到多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌尤其生對生的後續的這個處置的作業一直到這個案子是真正的做一個處置\n\n24\n00:08:29,454 --> 00:08:51,285\n好,剛剛部長你還有提到就是所謂剛剛葉元之委員問到戴彈簧刀的一個部分我先確認一下你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎?是嘛,彈簧刀嗎?那如果說是彈簧刀的話,我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎?沒有啊,文章事法的規範就是這樣啊什麼樣的?那就是戴著那個什麼刀蟹,這個本來就是可以通報的對啊\n\n25\n00:08:52,546 --> 00:09:01,830\n那個不是沒收的概念而已是啊那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這個方向沒有啦因為有人一直沒有在我要跟他報告說委員這個少事法的規範裡面這個已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥也不是讓學校單打獨鬥你本來就可以通報本時要特別強調的是不只是少事法社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念\n\n26\n00:09:14,637 --> 00:09:28,032\n彈簧刀雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥管理條例裡面沒有規範到彈簧刀但實際上它所的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便的隨時吸彈\n\n27\n00:09:29,133 --> 00:09:50,911\n所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話該通報該處置本來就應該要處置啊怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個話外之地所以部長你正式的再做一次強調到底現在老師如果說有收到學生有帶任何的違禁品尤其是有傷人的利器的時候老師應該怎麼做\n\n28\n00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:52,953\n最後本席也要在一分鐘的時間來說明一下剛剛你有提到這個高中的一個部分\n\n29\n00:10:13,345 --> 00:10:28,303\n在這一次我們有提到說這個高中免學費這開始要推動高中免學費但是有所謂排付條款可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費但是有一群人是沒有被補助到\n\n30\n00:10:29,922 --> 00:10:55,718\n對是不是因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候在委員會這邊當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常輕易的但書你現在今年二月要高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嗎?沒有那個法規就是有個但書啊那個但書當時我有調出這個要不要去處理那個朝野的立委在這上面有非常奇異的看法所以當時立法上面就是排除\n\n31\n00:10:56,897 --> 00:11:17,145\n所以是立法的原因嗎?但是因為是你們今年要推動的時候,這是政策面的考量喔?所以說是很多的學校、私校的家長是被排除在外的喔?對,它是有三種,一種就是直升到學校或辦理讀招\n\n32\n00:11:18,780 --> 00:11:19,361\n有多少學生?\n\n33\n00:11:29,762 --> 00:11:30,202\n委員這個是因為這個是涉及到入學的規範\n\n34\n00:11:54,390 --> 00:12:14,578\n本席現在提出來不管是什麼樣的原因現在結果我現在講的是結果結果就是有這樣並且本席在今年開始因為你們已經開始實施了之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了原來不是說政府宣傳很多啊高中免學費啊但是我的學我的孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入\n\n35\n00:12:15,478 --> 00:12:34,430\n那這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊他就一直問我們說難道我們不是台灣人嗎難道我們沒有納稅嗎難道我們不是一般高中生嗎確實他們也是高中生啊要不要補救要不要檢討可以研議啊可以研議但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦因為那個要修高級公能教育法\n\n36\n00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:58,972\n但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估委員那個預算絕對不是大的問題就是因為不是問題所以說我們才問說為什麼還要你分組群為什麼你還要分化為什麼還要搞特權這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調我把那個資料給你參考你就會知道本席有看過的資料當然重點在於是這是你們的政策\n\n37\n00:12:59,312 --> 00:13:01,954\n好,這個我們整理,本來就已經整理過,才做政策這方面的討論嘛,OK\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6547\t8078\t主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長\n12618\t36183\t委員好來潘部長去年韓國瑜及黑暗榮耀用校園暴力來題材讓造成全球也是排行冠軍那現在很多人重視到校園暴力的問題那本席先就教幾個校園暴力的問題有民調顯示說有近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全你有沒有看到這樣的一個報導\n37339\t62616\t因為過去也有很多的相關調查相關資料只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀的去確認過平均高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年有兩萬六千多件平均每天發生71件的暴力事件那去年調查發現有三成的兒校不認為自己在學校安全你不覺得這很諷刺嗎\n64031\t78481\t所以通常來講家庭、校園感覺應該是合理上來說比較安全的地方但是居然有三成的兒校不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為是說在學校不安全我們這幾年投入那麼多的一個努力到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況\n80075\t105866\t我跟委員報告我想校園安全還有霸凌的這個議題那一定是要持續的來努力這個毋庸置疑那剛才委員談到那個數據的部分我跟委員報告12年相較於11年多大概8000多總個啦高中以下多8000多件的這個部分其實是因為我們一直比較希望要求學校通報不要隱匿因為通報才會有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情\n107226\t122861\t這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件\n134092\t144842\t我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對 對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你\n160296\t160336\t主席\n178194\t207051\t因為現在很多人會覺得是說是不是因為這個霸凌的事件頻傳而今年民心私中傳出報考的人數激增私立中學比頂尖的大學還要難考那這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候我們怎麼樣重建我們公立體系我跟委員報告當然這個是一個比較普遍的這樣子的一個今年有沒有注意到這樣的一個數據私中的報考人數真的變多你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分教長我相信只要看到新聞難免\n208112\t208412\t今年升國一﹗\n231924\t248074\t總共人數是21萬相較於去年是18萬整整多三萬一千如果三萬一千多多少比例將近兩成你就會知道為什麼去讀師中的像你服務的新北新北要增加兩百班\n249314\t263239\t這個方法如果以比例來看你要去想本來就想要去進去進入師中的一定會因為師中的民口不是一直變大嗎他就固定的所以我就這個人數是非常特殊的龍年跟兔年之間差了三萬一千人光國一\n264559\t286156\t明年要升國一所以從那個數據我想我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息我也請署長一定要特別去留意但是對於師中過去因為私校法有一個57條還是第幾條有開放讓私立學校可以用各種的方式過去委員也經常指教不是委員委員會這邊都說像中部那種小型年考的說實在\n287618\t308796\t9年義務教育台灣走過後還在出現這個現象這個我覺得我們教育機關是應該要來慎重的注意啦孩子即使是為了擠這個窄門結果說真話放棄了不然之前才有一個家長那個可怕的課程表這個也都是我們會覺得這個社會大家都在省思教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項\n310358\t333351\t我們先不要把話插遠啦我覺得是說最重點是說現在霸凌事件頻傳造成普遍家長若不信任這個公立學校而造成大家是往私校擠就造成兩個現象嘛一個是越來越多人可能會去針對私立學校的一個報考那另外一個部分就是說對於公立學校我們的老師我們的教職員也會有士氣低落的影響嘛\n334392\t358974\t等一下再來跟你就教這個部分你剛剛也提到了非常好本席等一下會問但我先講請教校園霸凌影片現在很多時候看到LINE群組轉傳我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片本席之前也有提過就是說會有霸凌事件而會有其他人拍影片進夢的程度上他是要在欺負那個被害者他是想要在取樂他是想要在嘲笑他是想要把被害者\n362957\t379011\t這一個部分另外一個部分可能是當下他想要做個記錄比如說像上禮拜有這個學生跟老師的這個衝突的時候就是當場教室裡面的同學把他拍下來那我現在先請教說霸凌影片出來之後的這個處理機制\n380572\t404989\t有沒有跟我們相關單位來聯繫去做這個下架以及做心理後續的輔導是,謝謝委員這個提醒我跟你們報告就是近期有幾個校園的這個事件上因為在那個平台上面我們就會請要求學校因為一定會掌握到就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架的要求至於委員剛才提到有些被Download下來以後就在那個社群裡面尤其是校園\n406090\t428491\t對 這個是比較難的 因為他已經被 但是在那個平台裡面我們第一時間已經會這樣做那我也跟委員報告 這個真的我們要再努力了之前也有一個影片 我不知道我有沒有看到就是學生把老師什麼時候壓在然後用什麼 結果在查證以後 那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情不是嗎他不是 不是 也是在新北的一個學校\n429311\t435497\t是老師講不是?同學講不是?還是你聽學校的講法?學校正式求證而且也正式說明有對外說明我要跟委員報告是網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面當然像學校一個拍戲劇的影片結果把它當成\n450292\t464145\t這個對非常多社會也是很震撼學生把老師綁在後頭然後用什麼板叉去弄那個騙子我就請署長第一次確實去查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情後來一查是瞭解新北的、汐止的某個區域的學校\n464665\t466187\t那我現在要問的是說在霸凌影片的部分我們怎麼樣有做後續的一個輔導\n481836\t508493\t我們就是一定會先做下架那之後如果像這一些因為還是會要求到縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面因為有雙方這個部分其實我們不是說下架就沒事了一定會去追蹤到因為這個可能就會進到多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌尤其生對生的後續的這個處置的作業一直到這個案子是真正的做一個處置\n509454\t531285\t好,剛剛部長你還有提到就是所謂剛剛葉元之委員問到戴彈簧刀的一個部分我先確認一下你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎?是嘛,彈簧刀嗎?那如果說是彈簧刀的話,我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎?沒有啊,文章事法的規範就是這樣啊什麼樣的?那就是戴著那個什麼刀蟹,這個本來就是可以通報的對啊\n532546\t541830\t那個不是沒收的概念而已是啊那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這個方向沒有啦因為有人一直沒有在我要跟他報告說委員這個少事法的規範裡面這個已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥也不是讓學校單打獨鬥你本來就可以通報本時要特別強調的是不只是少事法社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念\n554637\t568032\t彈簧刀雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥管理條例裡面沒有規範到彈簧刀但實際上它所的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便的隨時吸彈\n569133\t590911\t所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話該通報該處置本來就應該要處置啊怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個話外之地所以部長你正式的再做一次強調到底現在老師如果說有收到學生有帶任何的違禁品尤其是有傷人的利器的時候老師應該怎麼做\n591591\t592953\t最後本席也要在一分鐘的時間來說明一下剛剛你有提到這個高中的一個部分\n613345\t628303\t在這一次我們有提到說這個高中免學費這開始要推動高中免學費但是有所謂排付條款可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費但是有一群人是沒有被補助到\n629922\t655718\t對 是不是因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候在委員會這邊當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常輕易的但書你現在今年二月要高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嗎?沒有 那個法規就是有個但書啊那個但書當時我有調出這個要不要去處理那個朝野的立委在這上面有非常奇異的看法所以當時立法上面就是排除\n656897\t677145\t所以是立法的原因嗎?但是因為是你們今年要推動的時候,這是政策面的考量喔?所以說是很多的學校、私校的家長是被排除在外的喔?對,它是有三種,一種就是直升到學校或辦理讀招\n678780\t679361\t有多少學生?\n689762\t690202\t委員這個是因為這個是涉及到入學的規範\n714390\t734578\t本席現在提出來不管是什麼樣的原因現在結果我現在講的是結果結果就是有這樣並且本席在今年開始因為你們已經開始實施了之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了原來不是說政府宣傳很多啊高中免學費啊但是我的學我的孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入\n735478\t754430\t那這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊他就一直問我們說難道我們不是台灣人嗎難道我們沒有納稅嗎難道我們不是一般高中生嗎確實他們也是高中生啊要不要補救要不要檢討可以研議啊可以研議但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦因為那個要修高級公能教育法\n754710\t778972\t但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估委員那個預算絕對不是大的問題就是因為不是問題所以說我們才問說為什麼還要你分組群為什麼你還要分化為什麼還要搞特權這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調我把那個資料給你參考你就會知道本席有看過的資料當然重點在於是這是你們的政策\n779312\t781954\t好,這個我們整理,本來就已經整理過,才做政策這方面的討論嘛,OK\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長\n委員好來潘部長去年韓國瑜及黑暗榮耀用校園暴力來題材讓造成全球也是排行冠軍那現在很多人重視到校園暴力的問題那本席先就教幾個校園暴力的問題有民調顯示說有近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全你有沒有看到這樣的一個報導\n因為過去也有很多的相關調查相關資料只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀的去確認過平均高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年有兩萬六千多件平均每天發生71件的暴力事件那去年調查發現有三成的兒校不認為自己在學校安全你不覺得這很諷刺嗎\n所以通常來講家庭、校園感覺應該是合理上來說比較安全的地方但是居然有三成的兒校不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為是說在學校不安全我們這幾年投入那麼多的一個努力到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況\n我跟委員報告我想校園安全還有霸凌的這個議題那一定是要持續的來努力這個毋庸置疑那剛才委員談到那個數據的部分我跟委員報告12年相較於11年多大概8000多總個啦高中以下多8000多件的這個部分其實是因為我們一直比較希望要求學校通報不要隱匿因為通報才會有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情\n這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件\n我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對 對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你\n主席\n因為現在很多人會覺得是說是不是因為這個霸凌的事件頻傳而今年民心私中傳出報考的人數激增私立中學比頂尖的大學還要難考那這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候我們怎麼樣重建我們公立體系我跟委員報告當然這個是一個比較普遍的這樣子的一個今年有沒有注意到這樣的一個數據私中的報考人數真的變多你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分教長我相信只要看到新聞難免\n今年升國一﹗\n總共人數是21萬相較於去年是18萬整整多三萬一千如果三萬一千多多少比例將近兩成你就會知道為什麼去讀師中的像你服務的新北新北要增加兩百班\n這個方法如果以比例來看你要去想本來就想要去進去進入師中的一定會因為師中的民口不是一直變大嗎他就固定的所以我就這個人數是非常特殊的龍年跟兔年之間差了三萬一千人光國一\n明年要升國一所以從那個數據我想我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息我也請署長一定要特別去留意但是對於師中過去因為私校法有一個57條還是第幾條有開放讓私立學校可以用各種的方式過去委員也經常指教不是委員委員會這邊都說像中部那種小型年考的說實在\n9年義務教育台灣走過後還在出現這個現象這個我覺得我們教育機關是應該要來慎重的注意啦孩子即使是為了擠這個窄門結果說真話放棄了不然之前才有一個家長那個可怕的課程表這個也都是我們會覺得這個社會大家都在省思教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項\n我們先不要把話插遠啦我覺得是說最重點是說現在霸凌事件頻傳造成普遍家長若不信任這個公立學校而造成大家是往私校擠就造成兩個現象嘛一個是越來越多人可能會去針對私立學校的一個報考那另外一個部分就是說對於公立學校我們的老師我們的教職員也會有士氣低落的影響嘛\n等一下再來跟你就教這個部分你剛剛也提到了非常好本席等一下會問但我先講請教校園霸凌影片現在很多時候看到LINE群組轉傳我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片本席之前也有提過就是說會有霸凌事件而會有其他人拍影片進夢的程度上他是要在欺負那個被害者他是想要在取樂他是想要在嘲笑他是想要把被害者\n這一個部分另外一個部分可能是當下他想要做個記錄比如說像上禮拜有這個學生跟老師的這個衝突的時候就是當場教室裡面的同學把他拍下來那我現在先請教說霸凌影片出來之後的這個處理機制\n有沒有跟我們相關單位來聯繫去做這個下架以及做心理後續的輔導是,謝謝委員這個提醒我跟你們報告就是近期有幾個校園的這個事件上因為在那個平台上面我們就會請要求學校因為一定會掌握到就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架的要求至於委員剛才提到有些被Download下來以後就在那個社群裡面尤其是校園\n對 這個是比較難的 因為他已經被 但是在那個平台裡面我們第一時間已經會這樣做那我也跟委員報告 這個真的我們要再努力了之前也有一個影片 我不知道我有沒有看到就是學生把老師什麼時候壓在然後用什麼 結果在查證以後 那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情不是嗎他不是 不是 也是在新北的一個學校\n是老師講不是?同學講不是?還是你聽學校的講法?學校正式求證而且也正式說明有對外說明我要跟委員報告是網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面當然像學校一個拍戲劇的影片結果把它當成\n這個對非常多社會也是很震撼學生把老師綁在後頭然後用什麼板叉去弄那個騙子我就請署長第一次確實去查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情後來一查是瞭解新北的、汐止的某個區域的學校\n那我現在要問的是說在霸凌影片的部分我們怎麼樣有做後續的一個輔導\n我們就是一定會先做下架那之後如果像這一些因為還是會要求到縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面因為有雙方這個部分其實我們不是說下架就沒事了一定會去追蹤到因為這個可能就會進到多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌尤其生對生的後續的這個處置的作業一直到這個案子是真正的做一個處置\n好,剛剛部長你還有提到就是所謂剛剛葉元之委員問到戴彈簧刀的一個部分我先確認一下你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎?是嘛,彈簧刀嗎?那如果說是彈簧刀的話,我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎?沒有啊,文章事法的規範就是這樣啊什麼樣的?那就是戴著那個什麼刀蟹,這個本來就是可以通報的對啊\n那個不是沒收的概念而已是啊那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這個方向沒有啦因為有人一直沒有在我要跟他報告說委員這個少事法的規範裡面這個已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥也不是讓學校單打獨鬥你本來就可以通報本時要特別強調的是不只是少事法社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念\n彈簧刀雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥管理條例裡面沒有規範到彈簧刀但實際上它所的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便的隨時吸彈\n所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話該通報該處置本來就應該要處置啊怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個話外之地所以部長你正式的再做一次強調到底現在老師如果說有收到學生有帶任何的違禁品尤其是有傷人的利器的時候老師應該怎麼做\n最後本席也要在一分鐘的時間來說明一下剛剛你有提到這個高中的一個部分\n在這一次我們有提到說這個高中免學費這開始要推動高中免學費但是有所謂排付條款可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費但是有一群人是沒有被補助到\n對 是不是因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候在委員會這邊當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常輕易的但書你現在今年二月要高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嗎?沒有 那個法規就是有個但書啊那個但書當時我有調出這個要不要去處理那個朝野的立委在這上面有非常奇異的看法所以當時立法上面就是排除\n所以是立法的原因嗎?但是因為是你們今年要推動的時候,這是政策面的考量喔?所以說是很多的學校、私校的家長是被排除在外的喔?對,它是有三種,一種就是直升到學校或辦理讀招\n有多少學生?\n委員這個是因為這個是涉及到入學的規範\n本席現在提出來不管是什麼樣的原因現在結果我現在講的是結果結果就是有這樣並且本席在今年開始因為你們已經開始實施了之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了原來不是說政府宣傳很多啊高中免學費啊但是我的學我的孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入\n那這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊他就一直問我們說難道我們不是台灣人嗎難道我們沒有納稅嗎難道我們不是一般高中生嗎確實他們也是高中生啊要不要補救要不要檢討可以研議啊可以研議但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦因為那個要修高級公能教育法\n但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估委員那個預算絕對不是大的問題就是因為不是問題所以說我們才問說為什麼還要你分組群為什麼你還要分化為什麼還要搞特權這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調我把那個資料給你參考你就會知道本席有看過的資料當然重點在於是這是你們的政策\n好,這個我們整理,本來就已經整理過,才做政策這方面的討論嘛,OK\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.547 --> 00:08.078\n主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長\n\n00:12.618 --> 00:36.183\n委員好來潘部長去年韓國瑜及黑暗榮耀用校園暴力來題材讓造成全球也是排行冠軍那現在很多人重視到校園暴力的問題那本席先就教幾個校園暴力的問題有民調顯示說有近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全你有沒有看到這樣的一個報導\n\n00:37.339 --> 01:02.616\n因為過去也有很多的相關調查相關資料只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀的去確認過平均高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年有兩萬六千多件平均每天發生71件的暴力事件那去年調查發現有三成的兒校不認為自己在學校安全你不覺得這很諷刺嗎\n\n01:04.031 --> 01:18.481\n所以通常來講家庭、校園感覺應該是合理上來說比較安全的地方但是居然有三成的兒校不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為是說在學校不安全我們這幾年投入那麼多的一個努力到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況\n\n01:20.075 --> 01:45.866\n我跟委員報告我想校園安全還有霸凌的這個議題那一定是要持續的來努力這個毋庸置疑那剛才委員談到那個數據的部分我跟委員報告12年相較於11年多大概8000多總個啦高中以下多8000多件的這個部分其實是因為我們一直比較希望要求學校通報不要隱匿因為通報才會有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情\n\n01:47.226 --> 02:02.861\n這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件\n\n02:14.092 --> 02:24.842\n我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你\n\n02:40.296 --> 02:40.336\n主席\n\n02:58.194 --> 03:27.051\n因為現在很多人會覺得是說是不是因為這個霸凌的事件頻傳而今年民心私中傳出報考的人數激增私立中學比頂尖的大學還要難考那這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候我們怎麼樣重建我們公立體系我跟委員報告當然這個是一個比較普遍的這樣子的一個今年有沒有注意到這樣的一個數據私中的報考人數真的變多你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分教長我相信只要看到新聞難免\n\n03:28.112 --> 03:28.412\n今年升國一﹗\n\n03:51.924 --> 04:08.074\n總共人數是21萬相較於去年是18萬整整多三萬一千如果三萬一千多多少比例將近兩成你就會知道為什麼去讀師中的像你服務的新北新北要增加兩百班\n\n04:09.314 --> 04:23.239\n這個方法如果以比例來看你要去想本來就想要去進去進入師中的一定會因為師中的民口不是一直變大嗎他就固定的所以我就這個人數是非常特殊的龍年跟兔年之間差了三萬一千人光國一\n\n04:24.559 --> 04:46.156\n明年要升國一所以從那個數據我想我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息我也請署長一定要特別去留意但是對於師中過去因為私校法有一個57條還是第幾條有開放讓私立學校可以用各種的方式過去委員也經常指教不是委員委員會這邊都說像中部那種小型年考的說實在\n\n04:47.618 --> 05:08.796\n9年義務教育台灣走過後還在出現這個現象這個我覺得我們教育機關是應該要來慎重的注意啦孩子即使是為了擠這個窄門結果說真話放棄了不然之前才有一個家長那個可怕的課程表這個也都是我們會覺得這個社會大家都在省思教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項\n\n05:10.358 --> 05:33.351\n我們先不要把話插遠啦我覺得是說最重點是說現在霸凌事件頻傳造成普遍家長若不信任這個公立學校而造成大家是往私校擠就造成兩個現象嘛一個是越來越多人可能會去針對私立學校的一個報考那另外一個部分就是說對於公立學校我們的老師我們的教職員也會有士氣低落的影響嘛\n\n05:34.392 --> 05:58.974\n等一下再來跟你就教這個部分你剛剛也提到了非常好本席等一下會問但我先講請教校園霸凌影片現在很多時候看到LINE群組轉傳我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片本席之前也有提過就是說會有霸凌事件而會有其他人拍影片進夢的程度上他是要在欺負那個被害者他是想要在取樂他是想要在嘲笑他是想要把被害者\n\n06:02.957 --> 06:19.011\n這一個部分另外一個部分可能是當下他想要做個記錄比如說像上禮拜有這個學生跟老師的這個衝突的時候就是當場教室裡面的同學把他拍下來那我現在先請教說霸凌影片出來之後的這個處理機制\n\n06:20.572 --> 06:44.989\n有沒有跟我們相關單位來聯繫去做這個下架以及做心理後續的輔導是,謝謝委員這個提醒我跟你們報告就是近期有幾個校園的這個事件上因為在那個平台上面我們就會請要求學校因為一定會掌握到就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架的要求至於委員剛才提到有些被Download下來以後就在那個社群裡面尤其是校園\n\n06:46.090 --> 07:08.491\n對這個是比較難的因為他已經被但是在那個平台裡面我們第一時間已經會這樣做那我也跟委員報告這個真的我們要再努力了之前也有一個影片我不知道我有沒有看到就是學生把老師什麼時候壓在然後用什麼結果在查證以後那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情不是嗎他不是不是也是在新北的一個學校\n\n07:09.311 --> 07:15.497\n是老師講不是?同學講不是?還是你聽學校的講法?學校正式求證而且也正式說明有對外說明我要跟委員報告是網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面當然像學校一個拍戲劇的影片結果把它當成\n\n07:30.292 --> 07:44.145\n這個對非常多社會也是很震撼學生把老師綁在後頭然後用什麼板叉去弄那個騙子我就請署長第一次確實去查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情後來一查是瞭解新北的、汐止的某個區域的學校\n\n07:44.665 --> 07:46.187\n那我現在要問的是說在霸凌影片的部分我們怎麼樣有做後續的一個輔導\n\n08:01.836 --> 08:28.493\n我們就是一定會先做下架那之後如果像這一些因為還是會要求到縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面因為有雙方這個部分其實我們不是說下架就沒事了一定會去追蹤到因為這個可能就會進到多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌尤其生對生的後續的這個處置的作業一直到這個案子是真正的做一個處置\n\n08:29.454 --> 08:51.285\n好,剛剛部長你還有提到就是所謂剛剛葉元之委員問到戴彈簧刀的一個部分我先確認一下你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎?是嘛,彈簧刀嗎?那如果說是彈簧刀的話,我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎?沒有啊,文章事法的規範就是這樣啊什麼樣的?那就是戴著那個什麼刀蟹,這個本來就是可以通報的對啊\n\n08:52.546 --> 09:01.830\n那個不是沒收的概念而已是啊那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這個方向沒有啦因為有人一直沒有在我要跟他報告說委員這個少事法的規範裡面這個已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥也不是讓學校單打獨鬥你本來就可以通報本時要特別強調的是不只是少事法社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念\n\n09:14.637 --> 09:28.032\n彈簧刀雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥管理條例裡面沒有規範到彈簧刀但實際上它所的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便的隨時吸彈\n\n09:29.133 --> 09:50.911\n所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話該通報該處置本來就應該要處置啊怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個話外之地所以部長你正式的再做一次強調到底現在老師如果說有收到學生有帶任何的違禁品尤其是有傷人的利器的時候老師應該怎麼做\n\n09:51.591 --> 09:52.953\n最後本席也要在一分鐘的時間來說明一下剛剛你有提到這個高中的一個部分\n\n10:13.345 --> 10:28.303\n在這一次我們有提到說這個高中免學費這開始要推動高中免學費但是有所謂排付條款可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費但是有一群人是沒有被補助到\n\n10:29.922 --> 10:55.718\n對是不是因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候在委員會這邊當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常輕易的但書你現在今年二月要高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嗎?沒有那個法規就是有個但書啊那個但書當時我有調出這個要不要去處理那個朝野的立委在這上面有非常奇異的看法所以當時立法上面就是排除\n\n10:56.897 --> 11:17.145\n所以是立法的原因嗎?但是因為是你們今年要推動的時候,這是政策面的考量喔?所以說是很多的學校、私校的家長是被排除在外的喔?對,它是有三種,一種就是直升到學校或辦理讀招\n\n11:18.780 --> 11:19.361\n有多少學生?\n\n11:29.762 --> 11:30.202\n委員這個是因為這個是涉及到入學的規範\n\n11:54.390 --> 12:14.578\n本席現在提出來不管是什麼樣的原因現在結果我現在講的是結果結果就是有這樣並且本席在今年開始因為你們已經開始實施了之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了原來不是說政府宣傳很多啊高中免學費啊但是我的學我的孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入\n\n12:15.478 --> 12:34.430\n那這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊他就一直問我們說難道我們不是台灣人嗎難道我們沒有納稅嗎難道我們不是一般高中生嗎確實他們也是高中生啊要不要補救要不要檢討可以研議啊可以研議但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦因為那個要修高級公能教育法\n\n12:34.710 --> 12:58.972\n但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估委員那個預算絕對不是大的問題就是因為不是問題所以說我們才問說為什麼還要你分組群為什麼你還要分化為什麼還要搞特權這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調我把那個資料給你參考你就會知道本席有看過的資料當然重點在於是這是你們的政策\n\n12:59.312 --> 13:01.954\n好,這個我們整理,本來就已經整理過,才做政策這方面的討論嘛,OK\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.547,"end":8.078,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長"},{"start":12.618,"end":36.183,"text":"委員好來潘部長去年韓國瑜及黑暗榮耀用校園暴力來題材讓造成全球也是排行冠軍那現在很多人重視到校園暴力的問題那本席先就教幾個校園暴力的問題有民調顯示說有近三成的兒少不認為自己在學校安全你有沒有看到這樣的一個報導"},{"start":37.339,"end":62.616,"text":"因為過去也有很多的相關調查相關資料只是這個我並沒有進一步比較客觀的去確認過平均高中職以下的暴力跟偏差行為一年有兩萬六千多件平均每天發生71件的暴力事件那去年調查發現有三成的兒校不認為自己在學校安全你不覺得這很諷刺嗎"},{"start":64.031,"end":78.481,"text":"所以通常來講家庭、校園感覺應該是合理上來說比較安全的地方但是居然有三成的兒校不管是國小、國中、高中生會認為是說在學校不安全我們這幾年投入那麼多的一個努力到底為什麼還會有這樣的狀況"},{"start":80.075,"end":105.866,"text":"我跟委員報告我想校園安全還有霸凌的這個議題那一定是要持續的來努力這個毋庸置疑那剛才委員談到那個數據的部分我跟委員報告12年相較於11年多大概8000多總個啦高中以下多8000多件的這個部分其實是因為我們一直比較希望要求學校通報不要隱匿因為通報才會有機會知道到底發生了什麼事情"},{"start":107.226,"end":122.861,"text":"這樣我就直接請問嘛你覺得說現在的數據遲遲上升是因為通報變多還是案件變多委員這個要進一步去做確認那如果說你沒有辦法確認你為什麼憑什麼在這邊講說是因為通報變多這是你的邏輯啊有幾個因為我們的類型其實一直在擴大啦那當中對霸凌的比如通報數是3000多件那確認數大概是200多件"},{"start":134.092,"end":144.842,"text":"我是以霸凌因為霸凌有它的定義啦這不是因為孩子比如說受到比如跟同學發生衝突他覺得被霸凌但是如果說進一步的去確認是不是應該要再確認我只是跟委員報告那個數據我們掌握到的就是鼓勵通報一定是責無旁貸的事啦當然再來一個當然就而且也應該不應該有過去這種隱匿的漏息嘛對對 對不對委員那次還考我一次說我先請教我再請教你"},{"start":160.296,"end":160.336,"text":"主席"},{"start":178.194,"end":207.051,"text":"因為現在很多人會覺得是說是不是因為這個霸凌的事件頻傳而今年民心私中傳出報考的人數激增私立中學比頂尖的大學還要難考那這樣子的現象如果真的發生的時候我們怎麼樣重建我們公立體系我跟委員報告當然這個是一個比較普遍的這樣子的一個今年有沒有注意到這樣的一個數據私中的報考人數真的變多你說校園的一些安全事件會不會影響到部分教長我相信只要看到新聞難免"},{"start":208.112,"end":208.412,"text":"今年升國一﹗"},{"start":231.924,"end":248.074,"text":"總共人數是21萬相較於去年是18萬整整多三萬一千如果三萬一千多多少比例將近兩成你就會知道為什麼去讀師中的像你服務的新北新北要增加兩百班"},{"start":249.314,"end":263.239,"text":"這個方法如果以比例來看你要去想本來就想要去進去進入師中的一定會因為師中的民口不是一直變大嗎他就固定的所以我就這個人數是非常特殊的龍年跟兔年之間差了三萬一千人光國一"},{"start":264.559,"end":286.156,"text":"明年要升國一所以從那個數據我想我要跟委員報告的是這個訊息我也請署長一定要特別去留意但是對於師中過去因為私校法有一個57條還是第幾條有開放讓私立學校可以用各種的方式過去委員也經常指教不是委員委員會這邊都說像中部那種小型年考的說實在"},{"start":287.618,"end":308.796,"text":"9年義務教育台灣走過後還在出現這個現象這個我覺得我們教育機關是應該要來慎重的注意啦孩子即使是為了擠這個窄門結果說真話放棄了不然之前才有一個家長那個可怕的課程表這個也都是我們會覺得這個社會大家都在省思教育主管機關也會再注意這個事項"},{"start":310.358,"end":333.351,"text":"我們先不要把話插遠啦我覺得是說最重點是說現在霸凌事件頻傳造成普遍家長若不信任這個公立學校而造成大家是往私校擠就造成兩個現象嘛一個是越來越多人可能會去針對私立學校的一個報考那另外一個部分就是說對於公立學校我們的老師我們的教職員也會有士氣低落的影響嘛"},{"start":334.392,"end":358.974,"text":"等一下再來跟你就教這個部分你剛剛也提到了非常好本席等一下會問但我先講請教校園霸凌影片現在很多時候看到LINE群組轉傳我們會知道這個霸凌是因為那個影片本席之前也有提過就是說會有霸凌事件而會有其他人拍影片進夢的程度上他是要在欺負那個被害者他是想要在取樂他是想要在嘲笑他是想要把被害者"},{"start":362.957,"end":379.011,"text":"這一個部分另外一個部分可能是當下他想要做個記錄比如說像上禮拜有這個學生跟老師的這個衝突的時候就是當場教室裡面的同學把他拍下來那我現在先請教說霸凌影片出來之後的這個處理機制"},{"start":380.572,"end":404.989,"text":"有沒有跟我們相關單位來聯繫去做這個下架以及做心理後續的輔導是,謝謝委員這個提醒我跟你們報告就是近期有幾個校園的這個事件上因為在那個平台上面我們就會請要求學校因為一定會掌握到就是要跟iWIN做這方面的下架的要求至於委員剛才提到有些被Download下來以後就在那個社群裡面尤其是校園"},{"start":406.09,"end":428.491,"text":"對 這個是比較難的 因為他已經被 但是在那個平台裡面我們第一時間已經會這樣做那我也跟委員報告 這個真的我們要再努力了之前也有一個影片 我不知道我有沒有看到就是學生把老師什麼時候壓在然後用什麼 結果在查證以後 那個事情根本就不是這樣的事情不是嗎他不是 不是 也是在新北的一個學校"},{"start":429.311,"end":435.497,"text":"是老師講不是?同學講不是?還是你聽學校的講法?學校正式求證而且也正式說明有對外說明我要跟委員報告是網路的這些訊息確實我們要不斷地去做這方面當然像學校一個拍戲劇的影片結果把它當成"},{"start":450.292,"end":464.145,"text":"這個對非常多社會也是很震撼學生把老師綁在後頭然後用什麼板叉去弄那個騙子我就請署長第一次確實去查清楚到底是發生了什麼事情後來一查是瞭解新北的、汐止的某個區域的學校"},{"start":464.665,"end":466.187,"text":"那我現在要問的是說在霸凌影片的部分我們怎麼樣有做後續的一個輔導"},{"start":481.836,"end":508.493,"text":"我們就是一定會先做下架那之後如果像這一些因為還是會要求到縣市跟學校對於這個個案在後續的處理上面因為有雙方這個部分其實我們不是說下架就沒事了一定會去追蹤到因為這個可能就會進到多數的這些我們掌握到都會進行到霸凌尤其生對生的後續的這個處置的作業一直到這個案子是真正的做一個處置"},{"start":509.454,"end":531.285,"text":"好,剛剛部長你還有提到就是所謂剛剛葉元之委員問到戴彈簧刀的一個部分我先確認一下你們剛剛講的確實是彈簧刀嗎?是嘛,彈簧刀嗎?那如果說是彈簧刀的話,我們沒有任何的法令可以去規範嗎?沒有啊,文章事法的規範就是這樣啊什麼樣的?那就是戴著那個什麼刀蟹,這個本來就是可以通報的對啊"},{"start":532.546,"end":541.83,"text":"那個不是沒收的概念而已是啊那為什麼你剛剛回答的時候都沒有講這個方向沒有啦因為有人一直沒有在我要跟他報告說委員這個少事法的規範裡面這個已經不是讓老師單打獨鬥也不是讓學校單打獨鬥你本來就可以通報本時要特別強調的是不只是少事法社會秩序維護法也都有一樣的概念"},{"start":554.637,"end":568.032,"text":"彈簧刀雖然我們沒有在槍砲彈藥管理條例裡面沒有規範到彈簧刀但實際上它所的用途是野外求生或者是觀賞收藏用而絕對不是讓任何人可以隨便的隨時吸彈"},{"start":569.133,"end":590.911,"text":"所以只要發生隨身攜帶的話該通報該處置本來就應該要處置啊怎麼會讓大家覺得說好像校園是一個話外之地所以部長你正式的再做一次強調到底現在老師如果說有收到學生有帶任何的違禁品尤其是有傷人的利器的時候老師應該怎麼做"},{"start":591.591,"end":592.953,"text":"最後本席也要在一分鐘的時間來說明一下剛剛你有提到這個高中的一個部分"},{"start":613.345,"end":628.303,"text":"在這一次我們有提到說這個高中免學費這開始要推動高中免學費但是有所謂排付條款可是現在是補助了公立學校免學費、私立學校免學費但是有一群人是沒有被補助到"},{"start":629.922,"end":655.718,"text":"對 是不是因為當時高級中等教育法修法的時候在委員會這邊當然當時委員會這邊立了一個非常輕易的但書你現在今年二月要高級中等學校全部都免學費上路嗎?沒有 那個法規就是有個但書啊那個但書當時我有調出這個要不要去處理那個朝野的立委在這上面有非常奇異的看法所以當時立法上面就是排除"},{"start":656.897,"end":677.145,"text":"所以是立法的原因嗎?但是因為是你們今年要推動的時候,這是政策面的考量喔?所以說是很多的學校、私校的家長是被排除在外的喔?對,它是有三種,一種就是直升到學校或辦理讀招"},{"start":678.78,"end":679.361,"text":"有多少學生?"},{"start":689.762,"end":690.202,"text":"委員這個是因為這個是涉及到入學的規範"},{"start":714.39,"end":734.578,"text":"本席現在提出來不管是什麼樣的原因現在結果我現在講的是結果結果就是有這樣並且本席在今年開始因為你們已經開始實施了之後才發覺說很多的家長他們自己看了原來不是說政府宣傳很多啊高中免學費啊但是我的學我的孩子的高中為什麼沒有被納入"},{"start":735.478,"end":754.43,"text":"那這樣子就是你們故意排除在外啊他就一直問我們說難道我們不是台灣人嗎難道我們沒有納稅嗎難道我們不是一般高中生嗎確實他們也是高中生啊要不要補救要不要檢討可以研議啊可以研議但這個研議一定要大家有共識啦因為那個要修高級公能教育法"},{"start":754.71,"end":778.972,"text":"但是應該要求教育部是不是先針對到底有多少人並且要用到多少的預算先做一個評估委員那個預算絕對不是大的問題就是因為不是問題所以說我們才問說為什麼還要你分組群為什麼你還要分化為什麼還要搞特權這個是當時立法院朝野委員強調我把那個資料給你參考你就會知道本席有看過的資料當然重點在於是這是你們的政策"},{"start":779.312,"end":781.954,"text":"好,這個我們整理,本來就已經整理過,才做政策這方面的討論嘛,OK"}]}}}}