{"id":149971,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149971","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a22d403a032d1949c87ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a661cd8283283c7cb85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:44:53 - 10:55:36","影片長度":"00:10:43","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":643,"end_time":"2024-03-18T10:55:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T10:44:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":493,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（10時45分）主席好，有請部長。部長辛苦了。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：在進入今天的校園安全主題之前，其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急，所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長，甚至還有很多的幼兒園園所來幫他們問一下。就是我們知道今年我們的準公幼即將在8月就要上路了。"],["潘部長文忠：第三期。"],["郭委員昱晴：對，第三期的部分。當然教育部國教署其實之前也提到第三期的一個草案，但是有很多所謂的退場機制，包含師生比可能如果不符合規定，或者是這個學校在3年之內曾經有什麼樣的事故的話，可能他們就必須要被退出這樣子的一個市場機制。因為有很多人、很多園所到最近才接到必須被退場，那等於讓很多的園所會一下子措手不及，這也是他們碰到的一些問題。相對來講，其實影響最大的還是我們一般的家庭跟這些幼教生，這個部分我不曉得部長您這邊知道嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我瞭解，我跟委員報告，因為現在第三期的訂約條件目前還沒有定案下來，因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇、家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等，還有包含剛才委員提到的師生比1比12怎麼進行的期程，所以這個還沒有定案，那也沒有所謂……"],["郭委員昱晴：可是8月就要上路了。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告一下，所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的，目前整個都已經蒐集了相關的資料，在3月底就會正式把這一方面做定案跟對外公布，縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內有意參與準公幼的後續訂約事項。"],["郭委員昱晴：其實我相信應該本來的私立幼兒園也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼，但是因為現在我們看到的、我目前所收到的一些陳情，包含桃園市開了第一槍，等於他們開了第一槍之後，全臺灣可能有大概上萬的小朋友跟上萬的家庭會受到這第三期的影響。也就是說因為您剛剛有提到是3月底之前，其實沒剩幾天了，真的來得及嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：來得及。我跟委員報告，因為在規劃的過程為了確保教保服務的品質，過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現管理不當，甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情，這個也是社會要求的……"],["郭委員昱晴：但是我聽到有很多其實願意加入準公幼，他們本來在私立的幼兒園也經營了大概二、三十年，都是非常優質的，但是這個政策一出來的時候，其實會……"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠在符合我們規範的條件下成為一起加入的夥伴……"],["郭委員昱晴：因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費的部分，因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話，其實他們平均每個月的費學大概是從6,000到1萬2,000，但是如果是到了他們被退出所謂的準公幼名單之外的話，其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3,000到9,000，這對很多的家庭來講是很沉重的負擔。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員補充報告，因為剛才有講到還沒有定案下來，也就沒有所謂哪個園或桃園市有幾園，這個是時間的部分。第二個，在我們研議的過程當中，如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入，我想很多家長也會有疑慮啦！如果有退場，比如它原來已有加入但沒有進行續約的，對於家長權益的保障，這個是我們主要的配套措施。"],["郭委員昱晴：我給您一個建議，好不好？因為有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候是1比15，等於多收了3個孩子，如果他們的園方是有足夠的空間，這個部分是不是可以增班，甚至可以增加所謂的教師的一個能力？如果這個部分我們也納入考慮的話，其實會不會真的就是兩全其美啊！應該這麼說。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分因為我們也有蒐集到如同他們跟委員反映的……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["潘部長文忠：在國教署召開諮詢的相關會議確實有這樣的意見，這些都是在我們最後要定案前會把它做綜整的考量。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，所以是……"],["潘部長文忠：但是要確保原來就讀準公幼家長的權益，比如得到政府推動的這些協助一定會保障。"],["郭委員昱晴：當然，也謝謝部長的回應。接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂校園安全部分，前一陣子大家都可以看到所謂師生上面的一個衝突，其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂國高中生，他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期，他們在面對校園安全上面，我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的老師，他們在對應這樣子的校園安全時，他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的。我們可以看到，教育部在111年各級學校學校安全的報告分析，我們都知道，關於老師跟青少年學生們，他們在溝通上，也就是說，他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的，這樣我才能夠知道每個孩子的狀況。我們現在可以看到，以平均班級的人數來說，在國小的話，一班大概是23人，我們是以公立的學校來說。在國中的部分則是25，將近26人，高中其實有30人。也就是說，校園安全發生比例最高的，也就是出事最多的，應該是高中，這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，當然這是一個平均數的概念啦，因為臺灣少子化後，其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數。在過往這段時間，高中的部分其實是我們最優先的，讓輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成，依照現行學生輔導法的規定來補足這方面的人力，尤其是專業方面人力的增置。國中會在114學年度達到，國小我也把它提前，從120學年度提前到116學年度。因為我想這一些真的是誠如剛才委員所提到，越來越多孩子可能在這方面真的需要有更多專業的人力。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為其實有很多的事件，它會是同時發生，它不是可能只有這一班在發生。校安人員，或者我們學校的專輔人員，他們到達現場去處理應變的能力到底夠不夠，這也是我們真的必須要討論進去的。"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：另外，我剛剛有講到，老師跟學生之間長期的溝通跟瞭解，其實才是他們解決問題最重要的一個關鍵。但是現在因為有很多師資其實是沒有辦法到位的，包含現在有很多所謂的助理教師人員，還有代理老師，他們對於學校班上，當他們入班去做這樣子教學互動的時候，他們對於班上的同學，每一位學生的特質，其實並沒有辦法第一線的掌握，這是不是跟校方有沒有告知也有關係？"],["潘部長文忠：對，我跟委員報告，因為如果我們對特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生，在原來的學生輔導法裡面，其實一個非常重要的，他就是一個學生輔導委員會，而校長就是那個召集人，這部分應該要很清楚地對這方面有所掌握。對於說比如代課老師，比如北市出現的這個問題，學校檢討下來，北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個老師要去代課的時候，對於學生、這班上特殊狀況的孩子，並沒有適當的做銜接。像這個，我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市，還有學校這邊，在這方面可能要再更多的連結。因為那一次的衝突他們檢討下來，因為我也有請國教署就這方面去深入瞭解，確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的，這個確實是當時產生衝突一個還滿重要的關鍵。"],["郭委員昱晴：剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園霸凌事件，其實霸凌不只有單純在學生跟學生之間，霸凌也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校孩子霸凌的事件，這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握？因為我們知道在去年4月份的時候，我們有特別提到所謂不適任校長的問題，根據國教法，其實有通過不適任的校長在調查期間他是不能夠返回學校，他也不能夠申請退休，但是目前真的有開始制定這樣子的機制，有正式的法制化了嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這個部分在修國教法，就是這個議題在委員會審議的時候，也確定有關校長的這個部分，如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌或不適任的行為……"],["郭委員昱晴：因為其實看到這個條文我們會發現……"],["潘部長文忠：有針對這個部分在母法上面定下來，目前國教署授權的子法正在做最後的整理。"],["郭委員昱晴：什麼時候可以出現？因為我們看到關於所謂校長跟教職員對學生的霸凌，是高達13.23%喔，這個比例其實已經來到了校園安全第四名的危險。"],["潘部長文忠：對，如果是校長涉及包含他在受調查期間，還有剛才委員所提的部分，都是在這個子法去做規範，這個在5月中就會公布實施。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，如果有提前的話，可以……"],["潘部長文忠：有、有，上次國教法修法時這個也是各界所關心的點，因為過去確實在校園也發生過這樣的個案。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，那我們期待有更新一步的改進。"],["潘部長文忠：目前母法已經有規定，子法在5月也會完成公布。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，謝謝部長。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝主席"],["主席：我們現在先休息5分鐘。","休息（10時55分）","繼續開會（11時）"],["主席：好，我們現在繼續開會。","接下來請登記第8號的羅廷瑋羅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,083 --> 00:00:28,535\n主席好有請部長部長辛苦了委員好在進入今天的這個校園安全的這個主題之前其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長甚至還有很多的幼兒園的員所來幫他們問一下就是我們知道在今年的8月其實我們的準公幼\n\n2\n00:00:29,475 --> 00:00:53,310\n他們的這個應該是說即將在8月就要上路了啦第三期對第三期的部分那當然其實在這個教育部、國教署其實之前也提到了這第三期的一個草案但是有很多的所謂的退場機制包含師生筆可能如果不符合規定或者是說這個學校在三年之內曾經有什麼樣的一個事故的話可能他們就必須要被\n\n3\n00:00:54,210 --> 00:00:54,831\n我跟委員報告\n\n4\n00:01:21,209 --> 00:01:39,193\n因為現在第三期的訂約的條件目前還沒有訂案下來因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇還有家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等還有包含剛才委員提到那個深思比一比十二怎麼進行的期程所以這個還沒有訂案\n\n5\n00:01:41,594 --> 00:01:45,355\n所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的目前整個已經都收集了相關的資料那會在3月底就會正式的把這個方面做定案跟對外來公佈那縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內的相關有益參與總共用的這些的後續的訂約的事項\n\n6\n00:02:07,423 --> 00:02:23,521\n其實我相信應該很多的本來的私立幼兒園其實他們也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼但是因為現在我們看到的我目前所收到的一些陳情包含是桃園市他們開了第一槍等於他們開了第一槍之後\n\n7\n00:02:24,002 --> 00:02:24,122\n來得及\n\n8\n00:02:40,528 --> 00:03:06,124\n我跟委員報告因為在規劃的過程確實為了確保這個教保服務的品質甚至過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現這種管理不當甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情然後這個也是社會要求但是我聽到的有很多其實願意加入準公幼他們其實本來在私立的幼兒園他們也經營了大概二十三十年都是非常優質的但是這個政策一出來的時候其實會\n\n9\n00:03:07,465 --> 00:03:30,140\n我跟你們報告是說基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠再符合我們規範的條件來成為我們一起加入的夥伴因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話其實他們平均的每個月的一個月費學費大概是從6000到12000但是如果是到了所謂的他們被\n\n10\n00:03:31,281 --> 00:03:41,910\n退出所謂的准公幼的一個名單之外的話其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3000到9000這對很多的家庭來講是很成功的負擔因為剛才講到時間根本還沒有定案下來也就沒有所謂哪個園或什麼桃園市有幾園這個是一個時間第二個就是在我們研議的過程當中因為如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入我想對很多家長也會有疑慮\n\n11\n00:03:58,903 --> 00:04:15,047\n對於如果有退場比如他原來已有加入沒有進行續約的對於家長權益的保障這個是我們主要的配套措施我給您一個建議好不好因為其實有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候他們說是1比15他等於多收了三個孩子\n\n12\n00:04:15,447 --> 00:04:15,988\n主席主席主席主席\n\n13\n00:04:34,564 --> 00:04:44,107\n在國教署召開諮詢的相關的會議確實有這樣的意見這些都是在我們最後要定案前會做重整的考量但是確保就是說原來就讀又有家長的權益比如得到政府的這些協助的這種一定會保障\n\n14\n00:04:52,690 --> 00:05:17,978\n謝謝部長的回應接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂的這個校園安全的一個部分了那前陣子其實大家都可以看到所謂的這個師生上面的一個衝突其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂的國高中生他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期他們在面對所謂的校園安全上面我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的一個老師其實他們在\n\n15\n00:05:19,699 --> 00:05:43,321\n對應所謂的這樣子的一個校園安全他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的那我們可以看到其實教育部在111年各級學校的安全的報告的分析我們都知道其實關於老師跟青少年的學生們他們在溝通上也就是說他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的我才能夠知道每個孩子的一個狀況\n\n16\n00:05:44,362 --> 00:06:08,677\n我們現在可以看到以平均班級的人數來說在國小的話一般大概是23人所以我們以公立的學校來說那在國中的部分是25將近26人高中其實有30人那也就是說在校園安全其實發生比例最高的就是出事最多的應該是所謂的高中這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合\n\n17\n00:06:10,359 --> 00:06:24,334\n我跟委員報告當然這是一個平均數的概念因為台灣少子化後其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數那在過往這段時間我們其實\n\n18\n00:06:24,975 --> 00:06:30,418\n高中的部分其實是最優先的將輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成依照現行學生輔導法的方面來做這方面人力的尤其是專業的這方面的人力的政治那國中\n\n19\n00:06:44,825 --> 00:06:46,566\n提前到116學年度因為我想這一些是剛才委員所提到真的越來越多孩子可能在這方面需要有更多專業的人\n\n20\n00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:00,360\n主席\n\n21\n00:07:17,083 --> 00:07:17,563\n李慧琼議員\n\n22\n00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:34,390\n李慧琼教授\n\n23\n00:07:50,726 --> 00:07:54,650\n對,我跟委員報告因為如果對我們說特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生在原來的學生輔導法裡面其實一個非常重要的\n\n24\n00:08:08,823 --> 00:08:25,510\n他就是一個學生輔導委員會校長就是那個召集人這就是應該要很清楚的對這方面有所掌握那對於說比如當然代課老師比如北市出現的這個問題學校檢討下來北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個讓要去代課這個老師對於學生這班上的特殊狀況的孩子並沒有適當的做銜接\n\n25\n00:08:35,754 --> 00:08:53,311\n像這個我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市還有學校這邊在這方面可能要再更多的連結因為這一次那次的衝突他們檢討下來因為有請國教署這方面深入的了解確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的這個確實是一個當時產生衝突一個還蠻重要的關鍵\n\n26\n00:08:58,015 --> 00:09:21,443\n其實剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園暴力的事件其實暴力不只有單純在學生跟學生之間其實暴力也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校的孩子暴力的一個事件這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握因為其實我們知道在去年4月份的時候其實我們有特別提到所謂的不適任的校長的問題那根據所謂的這個國教法它其實有通過\n\n27\n00:09:24,884 --> 00:09:27,406\n跟委員報告在修國教法的時候就是有這個議題特別在委員會審議的時候也確定有關校長的這個部分如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌然後不適任的行為他有\n\n28\n00:09:53,462 --> 00:09:53,562\n主席\n\n29\n00:10:12,407 --> 00:10:12,607\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2083\t28535\t主席好有請部長部長辛苦了委員好在進入今天的這個校園安全的這個主題之前其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長甚至還有很多的幼兒園的員所來幫他們問一下就是我們知道在今年的8月其實我們的準公幼\n29475\t53310\t他們的這個應該是說即將在8月就要上路了啦第三期對第三期的部分那當然其實在這個教育部、國教署其實之前也提到了這第三期的一個草案但是有很多的所謂的退場機制包含師生筆可能如果不符合規定或者是說這個學校在三年之內曾經有什麼樣的一個事故的話可能他們就必須要被\n54210\t54831\t我跟委員報告\n81209\t99193\t因為現在第三期的訂約的條件目前還沒有訂案下來因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇還有家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等還有包含剛才委員提到那個深思比一比十二怎麼進行的期程所以這個還沒有訂案\n101594\t105355\t所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的目前整個已經都收集了相關的資料那會在3月底就會正式的把這個方面做定案跟對外來公佈那縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內的相關有益參與總共用的這些的後續的訂約的事項\n127423\t143521\t其實我相信應該很多的本來的私立幼兒園其實他們也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼但是因為現在我們看到的我目前所收到的一些陳情包含是桃園市他們開了第一槍等於他們開了第一槍之後\n144002\t144122\t來得及\n160528\t186124\t我跟委員報告因為在規劃的過程確實為了確保這個教保服務的品質甚至過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現這種管理不當甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情然後這個也是社會要求但是我聽到的有很多其實願意加入準公幼他們其實本來在私立的幼兒園他們也經營了大概二十三十年都是非常優質的但是這個政策一出來的時候其實會\n187465\t210140\t我跟你們報告是說基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠再符合我們規範的條件來成為我們一起加入的夥伴因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話其實他們平均的每個月的一個月費學費大概是從6000到12000但是如果是到了所謂的他們被\n211281\t221910\t退出所謂的准公幼的一個名單之外的話其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3000到9000這對很多的家庭來講是很成功的負擔因為剛才講到時間根本還沒有定案下來也就沒有所謂哪個園或什麼桃園市有幾園這個是一個時間第二個就是在我們研議的過程當中因為如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入我想對很多家長也會有疑慮\n238903\t255047\t對於如果有退場比如他原來已有加入沒有進行續約的對於家長權益的保障這個是我們主要的配套措施我給您一個建議好不好因為其實有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候他們說是1比15他等於多收了三個孩子\n255447\t255988\t主席主席主席主席\n274564\t284107\t在國教署召開諮詢的相關的會議確實有這樣的意見這些都是在我們最後要定案前會做重整的考量但是確保就是說原來就讀又有家長的權益比如得到政府的這些協助的這種一定會保障\n292690\t317978\t謝謝部長的回應接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂的這個校園安全的一個部分了那前陣子其實大家都可以看到所謂的這個師生上面的一個衝突其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂的國高中生他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期他們在面對所謂的校園安全上面我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的一個老師其實他們在\n319699\t343321\t對應所謂的這樣子的一個校園安全他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的那我們可以看到其實教育部在111年各級學校的安全的報告的分析我們都知道其實關於老師跟青少年的學生們他們在溝通上也就是說他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的我才能夠知道每個孩子的一個狀況\n344362\t368677\t我們現在可以看到以平均班級的人數來說在國小的話一般大概是23人所以我們以公立的學校來說那在國中的部分是25將近26人高中其實有30人那也就是說在校園安全其實發生比例最高的就是出事最多的應該是所謂的高中這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合\n370359\t384334\t我跟委員報告當然這是一個平均數的概念因為台灣少子化後其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數那在過往這段時間我們其實\n384975\t390418\t高中的部分其實是最優先的將輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成依照現行學生輔導法的方面來做這方面人力的尤其是專業的這方面的人力的政治那國中\n404825\t406566\t提前到116學年度因為我想這一些是剛才委員所提到真的越來越多孩子可能在這方面需要有更多專業的人\n420240\t420360\t主席\n437083\t437563\t李慧琼議員\n454070\t454390\t李慧琼教授\n470726\t474650\t對,我跟委員報告因為如果對我們說特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生在原來的學生輔導法裡面其實一個非常重要的\n488823\t505510\t他就是一個學生輔導委員會校長就是那個召集人這就是應該要很清楚的對這方面有所掌握那對於說比如當然代課老師比如北市出現的這個問題學校檢討下來北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個讓要去代課這個老師對於學生這班上的特殊狀況的孩子並沒有適當的做銜接\n515754\t533311\t像這個我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市還有學校這邊在這方面可能要再更多的連結因為這一次那次的衝突他們檢討下來因為有請國教署這方面深入的了解確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的這個確實是一個當時產生衝突一個還蠻重要的關鍵\n538015\t561443\t其實剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園暴力的事件其實暴力不只有單純在學生跟學生之間其實暴力也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校的孩子暴力的一個事件這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握因為其實我們知道在去年4月份的時候其實我們有特別提到所謂的不適任的校長的問題那根據所謂的這個國教法它其實有通過\n564884\t567406\t跟委員報告在修國教法的時候就是有這個議題特別在委員會審議的時候也確定有關校長的這個部分如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌然後不適任的行為他有\n593462\t593562\t主席\n612407\t612607\t主席\n","txt":"主席好有請部長部長辛苦了委員好在進入今天的這個校園安全的這個主題之前其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長甚至還有很多的幼兒園的員所來幫他們問一下就是我們知道在今年的8月其實我們的準公幼\n他們的這個應該是說即將在8月就要上路了啦第三期對第三期的部分那當然其實在這個教育部、國教署其實之前也提到了這第三期的一個草案但是有很多的所謂的退場機制包含師生筆可能如果不符合規定或者是說這個學校在三年之內曾經有什麼樣的一個事故的話可能他們就必須要被\n我跟委員報告\n因為現在第三期的訂約的條件目前還沒有訂案下來因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇還有家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等還有包含剛才委員提到那個深思比一比十二怎麼進行的期程所以這個還沒有訂案\n所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的目前整個已經都收集了相關的資料那會在3月底就會正式的把這個方面做定案跟對外來公佈那縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內的相關有益參與總共用的這些的後續的訂約的事項\n其實我相信應該很多的本來的私立幼兒園其實他們也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼但是因為現在我們看到的我目前所收到的一些陳情包含是桃園市他們開了第一槍等於他們開了第一槍之後\n來得及\n我跟委員報告因為在規劃的過程確實為了確保這個教保服務的品質甚至過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現這種管理不當甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情然後這個也是社會要求但是我聽到的有很多其實願意加入準公幼他們其實本來在私立的幼兒園他們也經營了大概二十三十年都是非常優質的但是這個政策一出來的時候其實會\n我跟你們報告是說基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠再符合我們規範的條件來成為我們一起加入的夥伴因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話其實他們平均的每個月的一個月費學費大概是從6000到12000但是如果是到了所謂的他們被\n退出所謂的准公幼的一個名單之外的話其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3000到9000這對很多的家庭來講是很成功的負擔因為剛才講到時間根本還沒有定案下來也就沒有所謂哪個園或什麼桃園市有幾園這個是一個時間第二個就是在我們研議的過程當中因為如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入我想對很多家長也會有疑慮\n對於如果有退場比如他原來已有加入沒有進行續約的對於家長權益的保障這個是我們主要的配套措施我給您一個建議好不好因為其實有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候他們說是1比15他等於多收了三個孩子\n主席主席主席主席\n在國教署召開諮詢的相關的會議確實有這樣的意見這些都是在我們最後要定案前會做重整的考量但是確保就是說原來就讀又有家長的權益比如得到政府的這些協助的這種一定會保障\n謝謝部長的回應接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂的這個校園安全的一個部分了那前陣子其實大家都可以看到所謂的這個師生上面的一個衝突其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂的國高中生他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期他們在面對所謂的校園安全上面我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的一個老師其實他們在\n對應所謂的這樣子的一個校園安全他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的那我們可以看到其實教育部在111年各級學校的安全的報告的分析我們都知道其實關於老師跟青少年的學生們他們在溝通上也就是說他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的我才能夠知道每個孩子的一個狀況\n我們現在可以看到以平均班級的人數來說在國小的話一般大概是23人所以我們以公立的學校來說那在國中的部分是25將近26人高中其實有30人那也就是說在校園安全其實發生比例最高的就是出事最多的應該是所謂的高中這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合\n我跟委員報告當然這是一個平均數的概念因為台灣少子化後其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數那在過往這段時間我們其實\n高中的部分其實是最優先的將輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成依照現行學生輔導法的方面來做這方面人力的尤其是專業的這方面的人力的政治那國中\n提前到116學年度因為我想這一些是剛才委員所提到真的越來越多孩子可能在這方面需要有更多專業的人\n主席\n李慧琼議員\n李慧琼教授\n對,我跟委員報告因為如果對我們說特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生在原來的學生輔導法裡面其實一個非常重要的\n他就是一個學生輔導委員會校長就是那個召集人這就是應該要很清楚的對這方面有所掌握那對於說比如當然代課老師比如北市出現的這個問題學校檢討下來北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個讓要去代課這個老師對於學生這班上的特殊狀況的孩子並沒有適當的做銜接\n像這個我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市還有學校這邊在這方面可能要再更多的連結因為這一次那次的衝突他們檢討下來因為有請國教署這方面深入的了解確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的這個確實是一個當時產生衝突一個還蠻重要的關鍵\n其實剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園暴力的事件其實暴力不只有單純在學生跟學生之間其實暴力也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校的孩子暴力的一個事件這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握因為其實我們知道在去年4月份的時候其實我們有特別提到所謂的不適任的校長的問題那根據所謂的這個國教法它其實有通過\n跟委員報告在修國教法的時候就是有這個議題特別在委員會審議的時候也確定有關校長的這個部分如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌然後不適任的行為他有\n主席\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.083 --> 00:28.535\n主席好有請部長部長辛苦了委員好在進入今天的這個校園安全的這個主題之前其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長甚至還有很多的幼兒園的員所來幫他們問一下就是我們知道在今年的8月其實我們的準公幼\n\n00:29.475 --> 00:53.310\n他們的這個應該是說即將在8月就要上路了啦第三期對第三期的部分那當然其實在這個教育部、國教署其實之前也提到了這第三期的一個草案但是有很多的所謂的退場機制包含師生筆可能如果不符合規定或者是說這個學校在三年之內曾經有什麼樣的一個事故的話可能他們就必須要被\n\n00:54.210 --> 00:54.831\n我跟委員報告\n\n01:21.209 --> 01:39.193\n因為現在第三期的訂約的條件目前還沒有訂案下來因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇還有家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等還有包含剛才委員提到那個深思比一比十二怎麼進行的期程所以這個還沒有訂案\n\n01:41.594 --> 01:45.355\n所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的目前整個已經都收集了相關的資料那會在3月底就會正式的把這個方面做定案跟對外來公佈那縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內的相關有益參與總共用的這些的後續的訂約的事項\n\n02:07.423 --> 02:23.521\n其實我相信應該很多的本來的私立幼兒園其實他們也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼但是因為現在我們看到的我目前所收到的一些陳情包含是桃園市他們開了第一槍等於他們開了第一槍之後\n\n02:24.002 --> 02:24.122\n來得及\n\n02:40.528 --> 03:06.124\n我跟委員報告因為在規劃的過程確實為了確保這個教保服務的品質甚至過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現這種管理不當甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情然後這個也是社會要求但是我聽到的有很多其實願意加入準公幼他們其實本來在私立的幼兒園他們也經營了大概二十三十年都是非常優質的但是這個政策一出來的時候其實會\n\n03:07.465 --> 03:30.140\n我跟你們報告是說基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠再符合我們規範的條件來成為我們一起加入的夥伴因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話其實他們平均的每個月的一個月費學費大概是從6000到12000但是如果是到了所謂的他們被\n\n03:31.281 --> 03:41.910\n退出所謂的准公幼的一個名單之外的話其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3000到9000這對很多的家庭來講是很成功的負擔因為剛才講到時間根本還沒有定案下來也就沒有所謂哪個園或什麼桃園市有幾園這個是一個時間第二個就是在我們研議的過程當中因為如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入我想對很多家長也會有疑慮\n\n03:58.903 --> 04:15.047\n對於如果有退場比如他原來已有加入沒有進行續約的對於家長權益的保障這個是我們主要的配套措施我給您一個建議好不好因為其實有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候他們說是1比15他等於多收了三個孩子\n\n04:15.447 --> 04:15.988\n主席主席主席主席\n\n04:34.564 --> 04:44.107\n在國教署召開諮詢的相關的會議確實有這樣的意見這些都是在我們最後要定案前會做重整的考量但是確保就是說原來就讀又有家長的權益比如得到政府的這些協助的這種一定會保障\n\n04:52.690 --> 05:17.978\n謝謝部長的回應接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂的這個校園安全的一個部分了那前陣子其實大家都可以看到所謂的這個師生上面的一個衝突其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂的國高中生他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期他們在面對所謂的校園安全上面我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的一個老師其實他們在\n\n05:19.699 --> 05:43.321\n對應所謂的這樣子的一個校園安全他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的那我們可以看到其實教育部在111年各級學校的安全的報告的分析我們都知道其實關於老師跟青少年的學生們他們在溝通上也就是說他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的我才能夠知道每個孩子的一個狀況\n\n05:44.362 --> 06:08.677\n我們現在可以看到以平均班級的人數來說在國小的話一般大概是23人所以我們以公立的學校來說那在國中的部分是25將近26人高中其實有30人那也就是說在校園安全其實發生比例最高的就是出事最多的應該是所謂的高中這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合\n\n06:10.359 --> 06:24.334\n我跟委員報告當然這是一個平均數的概念因為台灣少子化後其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數那在過往這段時間我們其實\n\n06:24.975 --> 06:30.418\n高中的部分其實是最優先的將輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成依照現行學生輔導法的方面來做這方面人力的尤其是專業的這方面的人力的政治那國中\n\n06:44.825 --> 06:46.566\n提前到116學年度因為我想這一些是剛才委員所提到真的越來越多孩子可能在這方面需要有更多專業的人\n\n07:00.240 --> 07:00.360\n主席\n\n07:17.083 --> 07:17.563\n李慧琼議員\n\n07:34.070 --> 07:34.390\n李慧琼教授\n\n07:50.726 --> 07:54.650\n對,我跟委員報告因為如果對我們說特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生在原來的學生輔導法裡面其實一個非常重要的\n\n08:08.823 --> 08:25.510\n他就是一個學生輔導委員會校長就是那個召集人這就是應該要很清楚的對這方面有所掌握那對於說比如當然代課老師比如北市出現的這個問題學校檢討下來北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個讓要去代課這個老師對於學生這班上的特殊狀況的孩子並沒有適當的做銜接\n\n08:35.754 --> 08:53.311\n像這個我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市還有學校這邊在這方面可能要再更多的連結因為這一次那次的衝突他們檢討下來因為有請國教署這方面深入的了解確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的這個確實是一個當時產生衝突一個還蠻重要的關鍵\n\n08:58.015 --> 09:21.443\n其實剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園暴力的事件其實暴力不只有單純在學生跟學生之間其實暴力也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校的孩子暴力的一個事件這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握因為其實我們知道在去年4月份的時候其實我們有特別提到所謂的不適任的校長的問題那根據所謂的這個國教法它其實有通過\n\n09:24.884 --> 09:27.406\n跟委員報告在修國教法的時候就是有這個議題特別在委員會審議的時候也確定有關校長的這個部分如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌然後不適任的行為他有\n\n09:53.462 --> 09:53.562\n主席\n\n10:12.407 --> 10:12.607\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.083,"end":28.535,"text":"主席好有請部長部長辛苦了委員好在進入今天的這個校園安全的這個主題之前其實有一件事情會稍微比較緊急所以我在這邊可能就要先幫很多的小朋友還有他們的家長甚至還有很多的幼兒園的員所來幫他們問一下就是我們知道在今年的8月其實我們的準公幼"},{"start":29.475,"end":53.31,"text":"他們的這個應該是說即將在8月就要上路了啦第三期對第三期的部分那當然其實在這個教育部、國教署其實之前也提到了這第三期的一個草案但是有很多的所謂的退場機制包含師生筆可能如果不符合規定或者是說這個學校在三年之內曾經有什麼樣的一個事故的話可能他們就必須要被"},{"start":54.21,"end":54.831,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":81.209,"end":99.193,"text":"因為現在第三期的訂約的條件目前還沒有訂案下來因為各界包含家長、教保人員的待遇還有家長的期待以及教保服務品質等等還有包含剛才委員提到那個深思比一比十二怎麼進行的期程所以這個還沒有訂案"},{"start":101.594,"end":105.355,"text":"所以也沒有所謂現在哪個學校是退場或等等的目前整個已經都收集了相關的資料那會在3月底就會正式的把這個方面做定案跟對外來公佈那縣市才可以依據這個來做縣市內的相關有益參與總共用的這些的後續的訂約的事項"},{"start":127.423,"end":143.521,"text":"其實我相信應該很多的本來的私立幼兒園其實他們也很願意能夠參加所謂的準公幼但是因為現在我們看到的我目前所收到的一些陳情包含是桃園市他們開了第一槍等於他們開了第一槍之後"},{"start":144.002,"end":144.122,"text":"來得及"},{"start":160.528,"end":186.124,"text":"我跟委員報告因為在規劃的過程確實為了確保這個教保服務的品質甚至過去也有部分的幼兒園有出現這種管理不當甚至教保人員去虐待管教孩子的事情然後這個也是社會要求但是我聽到的有很多其實願意加入準公幼他們其實本來在私立的幼兒園他們也經營了大概二十三十年都是非常優質的但是這個政策一出來的時候其實會"},{"start":187.465,"end":210.14,"text":"我跟你們報告是說基本上政府一定會非常歡迎私幼能夠再符合我們規範的條件來成為我們一起加入的夥伴因為最直接影響到的其實就是家長對於學費因為我們大概知道如果是私幼的話其實他們平均的每個月的一個月費學費大概是從6000到12000但是如果是到了所謂的他們被"},{"start":211.281,"end":221.91,"text":"退出所謂的准公幼的一個名單之外的話其實他們等於每個孩子每個月要多付大概3000到9000這對很多的家庭來講是很成功的負擔因為剛才講到時間根本還沒有定案下來也就沒有所謂哪個園或什麼桃園市有幾園這個是一個時間第二個就是在我們研議的過程當中因為如果真的不適合的園所勉強加入我想對很多家長也會有疑慮"},{"start":238.903,"end":255.047,"text":"對於如果有退場比如他原來已有加入沒有進行續約的對於家長權益的保障這個是我們主要的配套措施我給您一個建議好不好因為其實有很多的私幼其實他們也許在第二期的時候他們說是1比15他等於多收了三個孩子"},{"start":255.447,"end":255.988,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":274.564,"end":284.107,"text":"在國教署召開諮詢的相關的會議確實有這樣的意見這些都是在我們最後要定案前會做重整的考量但是確保就是說原來就讀又有家長的權益比如得到政府的這些協助的這種一定會保障"},{"start":292.69,"end":317.978,"text":"謝謝部長的回應接下來我們就進入今天我們在討論的所謂的這個校園安全的一個部分了那前陣子其實大家都可以看到所謂的這個師生上面的一個衝突其實也引發了整個我們對於所謂的國高中生他們因為剛好面臨所謂的青春期他們在面對所謂的校園安全上面我相信其實不是只有那樣子的孩子跟那樣子的一個老師其實他們在"},{"start":319.699,"end":343.321,"text":"對應所謂的這樣子的一個校園安全他們其實是會有一些疑慮跟擔心的那我們可以看到其實教育部在111年各級學校的安全的報告的分析我們都知道其實關於老師跟青少年的學生們他們在溝通上也就是說他們其實是需要花時間去關心這些孩子的我才能夠知道每個孩子的一個狀況"},{"start":344.362,"end":368.677,"text":"我們現在可以看到以平均班級的人數來說在國小的話一般大概是23人所以我們以公立的學校來說那在國中的部分是25將近26人高中其實有30人那也就是說在校園安全其實發生比例最高的就是出事最多的應該是所謂的高中這個部分我們在人力的部分要怎麼樣來配合"},{"start":370.359,"end":384.334,"text":"我跟委員報告當然這是一個平均數的概念因為台灣少子化後其實有相當多的學校學生人數是低於這個平均數那在過往這段時間我們其實"},{"start":384.975,"end":390.418,"text":"高中的部分其實是最優先的將輔導教師跟專輔人員的部分最快達成依照現行學生輔導法的方面來做這方面人力的尤其是專業的這方面的人力的政治那國中"},{"start":404.825,"end":406.566,"text":"提前到116學年度因為我想這一些是剛才委員所提到真的越來越多孩子可能在這方面需要有更多專業的人"},{"start":420.24,"end":420.36,"text":"主席"},{"start":437.083,"end":437.563,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":454.07,"end":454.39,"text":"李慧琼教授"},{"start":470.726,"end":474.65,"text":"對,我跟委員報告因為如果對我們說特教學生或比較特別的一些需要高關懷的學生在原來的學生輔導法裡面其實一個非常重要的"},{"start":488.823,"end":505.51,"text":"他就是一個學生輔導委員會校長就是那個召集人這就是應該要很清楚的對這方面有所掌握那對於說比如當然代課老師比如北市出現的這個問題學校檢討下來北市教育局這邊提到的就是校方可能在這個讓要去代課這個老師對於學生這班上的特殊狀況的孩子並沒有適當的做銜接"},{"start":515.754,"end":533.311,"text":"像這個我想也是教育部未來要跟縣市還有學校這邊在這方面可能要再更多的連結因為這一次那次的衝突他們檢討下來因為有請國教署這方面深入的了解確實學校跟教育局所反映出來的這個確實是一個當時產生衝突一個還蠻重要的關鍵"},{"start":538.015,"end":561.443,"text":"其實剛剛有很多的委員都有提到所謂的校園暴力的事件其實暴力不只有單純在學生跟學生之間其實暴力也有可能會發生在老師或者是校長對於學校的孩子暴力的一個事件這個部分我不知道部長您有沒有掌握因為其實我們知道在去年4月份的時候其實我們有特別提到所謂的不適任的校長的問題那根據所謂的這個國教法它其實有通過"},{"start":564.884,"end":567.406,"text":"跟委員報告在修國教法的時候就是有這個議題特別在委員會審議的時候也確定有關校長的這個部分如果有涉及到一些剛才談到霸凌然後不適任的行為他有"},{"start":593.462,"end":593.562,"text":"主席"},{"start":612.407,"end":612.607,"text":"主席"}]}}}}