{"id":150005,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150005","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a4ae4d776d325a8e387ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a6892ad2dd8d1590f05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"12:01:10 - 12:11:58","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":648,"end_time":"2024-03-18T12:11:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T12:01:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":785,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時1分）謝謝召委安排今天這個專題，請潘部長。"],["主席：部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長午安。剛剛已經有非常多人針對新北國三生案討論機制這個部分，也有非常多面向，從風險管控、學校因應到輔導人力、校安等，我則比較希望從風險來源跟部長討論。我知道你們檢討了非常多，我的辦公室則認為，其實風險的來源有一部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政，結果人不在自己的系統中就不管。當然，司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業，但教育體系輔導人力不足也讓少年、教師、同學、家長目前都有很大的焦慮。","我們整理了看到的資料，從曝險跟觸法少年回歸校園問題中發現，從少觀所後來到安置機構回到學校，其中一定會有轉銜會議，從矯正學校回到學校也會有轉銜會議，這次這個郭生的情況則是從少觀所直接回學校，中間沒有轉銜會議，這是一大問題。當然，剛剛很多委員都講過，有轉銜會議也不能保證少年能夠適應學校。但如果沒有轉銜會議的話，問題一定更大。我想請問部長，針對待了少觀所一段時間返回學校的少年，您是不是同意需要轉銜的機制？"],["潘部長文忠：我贊成。而且我跟委員報告，這一次跨部會、包含跨院討論的重點就在於少調官或少保官對於這些司法少年，除了要了解、調查，最終更要裁決，也就是委員說的，是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷，這一段是這次我們跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論的，也有了共識。"],["范委員雲：部長請先停。我剛聽到您講了社區中介教育，那個部分是教育部要找各縣市、六都等來處理的對不對？可不可以請司法院廳長也上臺一下？司法院講他們要做的是給六都試辦已經上路的保護管束風險管理計畫。這是司法院主導的嘛！那我想請問的是……先請問部長好了，我剛剛研究了一下，對照我們辦公室之前看到的，我有點不清楚這兩者之間的關係，就是社區中介教育跟司法院試辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫。你們要做分類跟風險評估，就是我剛剛所講的這一塊，那這裡面有沒有學校代表在其中？請問司法院謝廳長，那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：委員是說……"],["范委員雲：你們試辦中的、就是今年2月1日開始試辦到明年的計畫。"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，其實從110年開始，我們跟行政院、包含教育部，對於每一個個案其實都會辦理，只要少年在學校上學，學校一定會跟法院，法院也會跟學校，密切了解學校處理學生這部分……"],["范委員雲：所以會有學校代表參與這個風險管理個案的討論嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：會。"],["范委員雲：會喔？"],["謝廳長靜慧：以臺南地院來說，2月1號開始，他們大概每個禮拜就會檢討、逐案評估少年風險因子。如果需要開會，就會通知學校派員來。"],["范委員雲：好，謝廳長，謝謝你。","我想請問潘部長，如果經過這個風險管理計畫評估少年可以回學校，可是學校端覺得還是不行，你們會不會提供社區中介教育，或是如同我剛剛講的，中間是不是還需要一個轉銜機制？我是覺得這裡面好像還是有一個洞。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，針對不到曝險少年或司法少年的部分，原來的教育體系就有高關懷班或是慈輝班跟中途學校合作這個模式。基本上，這個模式的對象比較不以司法少年為主，但這次檢討這個機制時提到，如果有一些經過綜合評估後認定暫時不宜直接回到學校的學生，我們覺得教育部要跟縣市政府合作，要有這樣的做法，確實應該給這些經評估後的曝險少年一個過渡階段，目前我們要努力的就是這樣。"],["范委員雲：部長，因為直接監督的還是教育部，針對剛剛講的那個六都試辦的計畫、你們的社區中介教育與回學校之間的評估，有沒有轉銜機制？目前的轉銜作法夠不夠，是不是能給我辦公室一份報告？因為我覺得這個部分不夠清楚。"],["潘部長文忠：好，委員，可以，我們把這個整理一下，當然司法院試辦計畫的情形就由司法院提供給委員作為參考。"],["范委員雲：沒關係，就你們知道的提供，因為如果你們知道得不夠也是問題啦！"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，我們現在要啟動的整個機制，我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的……比如說少年法庭的少保官和調查官，或即將準備接納、接受學生……，少年原來就是這所學校的學生，我們幾個相關機構應該能夠在這樣的討論過程充分地交換意見。這是不是轉銜會議？我不知道，只是這個會議……"],["范委員雲：不管它是不是叫轉銜，但機制要轉銜，轉銜要有機制。"],["潘部長文忠：對，我們認為在調查過程中，尤其是學校，應該可以更深入了解這樣的少年整個行為的情況如何。"],["范委員雲：就是學校是不是接得起來。"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["范委員雲：針對這部分，就教育部能夠處理的，包含你們跟司法體系的對接接得夠不夠、目前司法院正在發展的試辦計畫跟你們的社區中介教育之間還需要什麼轉銜等，部長多久可以給我辦公室一份報告呢？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，因為這可能在……"],["范委員雲：正在進行中？"],["潘部長文忠：對，司法院這個方案我讀過，相較於過去，對於這些曝險少年真的有更多人力支持，包含少保官來……"],["范委員雲：是，這個我們很支持。"],["潘部長文忠：要做事後，比如說裁決後的持續追蹤、列管，其實需要時間跟人力啦！"],["范委員雲：的確。"],["潘部長文忠：如果是這樣，教育體系、學校體系跟司法體系就連接得很好。那個中介基地是一個場域啦！也就是說少年可能要幾個月後、評估後才適合回到學校，在人力上，我認為是幾個主管機關非常重要的串接。"],["范委員雲：好，部長還是可以給我一個時間。"],["潘部長文忠：1個月好不好？"],["范委員雲：好，1個月，沒問題，謝謝部長。","我還是要繼續問部長。教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地，我覺得非常重要，請問目前你們認為哪些少年需要進入這個基地？什麼時候離開有沒有規定？一樣的，從這裡回學校是不是有轉銜機制？目前規劃了嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這就跟您上述關心的……"],["范委員雲：對，是相關的。"],["潘部長文忠：我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關連性，教育部跟各縣市未來會在3月把方案定下來，5月開始。其實我們當時設定的對象有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能較不彰，他不是曝險少年，我們本來就有幾個中途教育措施在，這次這個基地比較是以曝險少年或司法少年為主要對象。在跟民間團體合作這方面，目前三十幾個團體也都是以過去有接觸、協助過曝險少年這種經驗的團體為主。"],["范委員雲：好，沒有關係，針對這部分跟剛剛是一樣的，關於與少年最後回到校園之間，誰應該參與轉銜會議或機制，也請部長在1個月內提供的報告裡一起給我。","因為時間的緣故，我想直接問部長一個相關問題，是剛剛沒有人問的。我們知道觸法與曝險少年之中有一種是性犯罪，也就是涉及性侵這樣的少年。針對相關輔導處遇裡面的每一關，由於性別平等教育法的主管機關是教育部，這裡面的每一關會不會有相關專業人士參與跟進行呢？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是性平事件，但對於委員所提到這類對象的學生，教育部過去也在全國幾個地方，針對涉及性剝削等已經觸法的對象有幾個中途學校。"],["范委員雲：性平三法剛好在上週三八婦女節實施，矯正學校也設置了性平會，那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下，少年在不同階段時，相關機制裡是不是都有專業人員一起參與其輔導處置，讓他最後回歸的時候……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，應該說如果是設有相關防治條例這些措施的學校，目前就是有幾個據點，專門針對這種對象處理。"],["范委員雲：好，相關部分也請在1個月內給我辦公室一份報告好嗎？就是關於性犯罪的部分。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["范委員雲：最後，針對司法院，我非常認同你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作，調查跟保護目前沒有分類、調查官兼保護官也是個問題。我想，我們應該一起爭取鬆綁員額，增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力，讓他們能夠適當分工，所以我也跟司法院講一下。我的發言時間到，就先講到這。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝范委員。","接下來處理臨時提案，今天有委員提出臨時提案共計3案。","請宣讀。","一、","有鑑於少子化衝擊，私立學校被列入專輔學校及停辦件數如骨牌效應出現。對此，學生受教以及教職員工權益務必全力捍衛，但所屬教師轉職等相關事務亦應納入協助，以免顧此失彼！私校退場條例於2022年公布實施後，專輔及停辦學校教師離職轉校之契約、賠償以及離職證明取得等問題叢生，政府有照顧並保護學生、教職員與教師之義務，為避免造成後續問題不斷擴大，應針對私校退場條例以及相關原則規定，進行檢視與補強！","一、私校退場條例上路後，許多私校教師開始參與公立學校教師甄試，打算另謀出路，卻傳出有私校教師遭原校求償違約金十餘萬元，也有公校教甄要求現職教師需提出原校報考同意書或離職證明書。面對少子化衝擊，私校教師遭鉅額賠償與報考障礙阻截，想另謀出路卻困難重重甚至無能為力。","二、少子化後私校師資流動率更加惡化，在職教師紛紛跳船逃難，許多私校為綁住教師，在聘約中設下高額違約金，若有教師申請離職，就以不發給離職證明為手段，迫教師繳交鉅額違約金。","三、教育部應針對私校退場問題，針對列入專輔或停辦學校有關教師聘任契約之離職賠償與轉職證明等約定，訂定賠償失效、離職證明取得保障之合情合理相關原則，提供私校退場學校一體適用。","提案人：林倩綺","連署人：吳春城　　葉元之　　葛如鈞　　柯志恩　　范　雲","二、","鑑於中華足球協會以剝削式的合約，並以恐嚇威逼式說法，要求女足國家隊球員簽訂情事，該協會舉措已嚴重影響國人信任、讓球員心生恐懼的心理壓力，造成女足發展阻力；依據國民體育法第三十三條以及第四十三條規定，體育署應主動介入並進行後續督導考核，讓體育競技及女足發展重回正軌，並找回國人信心！","一、經爆料中華足協剝削選手，還逼迫女足國家隊成員簽訂不平等條約，體育署雖曾從旁了解，但足協仍一意孤行、引發各界譁然。","二、國民體育法第三十三條規定，中央主管機關應每年對特定體育團體輔導、訪視或考核。……考核之項目應包括國家代表隊遴選制度、組織會務運作、會計及財務健全、業務推展績效、民眾參與之規劃，其訂定及執行，應聘請學者專家及民間公正人士參加。","三、國民體育法第四十三條規定，特定體育團體有違反法令、章程或妨害公益情事者……情節重大者，得停止全部或一部之獎勵、補助，撤免其職員，移送人民團體法主管機關廢止許可或命令解散。","四、中華足協雖發表聲明向球員們致歉，決議將作廢合約內容，後續考慮成立專案小組，邀球員、球團代表、女足工會代表及總教練與會討論，提出適合女足國家隊的協議。然而，足協公信力盡失，在民氣可用之際，體育署應積極介入進行督導，以避免再次傷害、造成未來出現更失控局勢！","提案人：林倩綺","連署人：吳春城　　葉元之　　葛如鈞　　萬美玲　　范　雲　　柯志恩","三、","案由：東海國中從民國57年創校到現在，一直是台東學生數規模第二大的國中，但是創校56年來一直都沒有體育館跟大型室內學生活動中心，56年來沒有任何一屆的畢業生是在學校的禮堂參加完畢業典禮走出校園，56年來無數教職員學生殷切期盼能夠容納全校師生的大型室內活動場館，為解決該校此一困境，臺東縣政府積極籌備相關預算，惟該校活動中心興建經費高達1億2千萬元，臺東縣政府已利用花東基金申請7,000萬元補助，仍有5,000萬元的缺口需要中央協助，為維護東海國中師生教育權益，保障學生活動安全，爰提案要求教育部應於一個月內邀集各所屬機關召開會議，研商經費補助事宜。","提案人：黃建賓　　萬美玲　　柯志恩　　羅廷瑋　　葛如鈞"],["主席：針對第一案，提案人林倩綺委員有沒有意見？"],["林委員倩綺：針對第一案，教育部後來有跟我討論通案的……"],["主席：好，那請部長作修正說明。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝。"],["主席：可以喔？部長可不可以作一些修正說明？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝主席和各位委員。針對第一案林委員與幾位委員的提案，我們剛才有跟委員報告，可能會作部分文字修正，我說明一下。從說明三的第1行開始，教育部應針對私校退場條例後面改為發函要求各校，至於「針對……」，我們建議刪除。之後是「訂定有關教師聘任契約之離職賠償與轉職證明等約定時，應符合一般法律規定或比例原則（例如教師離職預告超過60日，即不應要求離職賠償或拒絕發給離職證明），提供私立學校一體適用」作為參考。至於詳細文字，如果委員同意，我們再提供給議事組，可以作文字的整理。"],["主席：OK，謝謝，那就修正通過。","關於第二案，提案委員也是林倩綺委員，有沒有意見？"],["林委員倩綺：體育署建議調幾個字，這幾個字我們也同意，就是比較中性一點的寫法。"],["主席：部長是不是也幫我們作一些補充說明？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝主席還有委員。謝謝林委員剛才同意我們對一些文字整理一下。從前段說明開始，修正為「有鑑於中華足球協會以不平等的合約」，後面委員也同意修辭，「並以恐嚇……」就刪除；「要求女足國家隊球員……該協會舉措已」後面那幾個字的「嚴重影響國人信任」刪除；還有「讓球員心生恐懼的心理壓力」中，「恐懼的」那幾個字委員同意刪除。","說明一改為「經爆料中華足協要求」，後面「剝削選手，還逼迫」這幾個字就刪除。然後，說明一第2行「體育署雖曾從旁了解，但足協仍一意孤行。」這幾個字作刪除修正。然後是說明四，因為這件案子足協已經解除合約了，所以有一個字，第1行「決議將」中的「將」字建議刪除，因為事實上做了，這點也是體育署清楚要求足協該這麼做，足協也同意。以上文字修正。"],["主席：就是文字上將情緒性字眼改成中性的文字，林委員說OK？"],["林委員倩綺：是的。"],["主席：好，謝謝，修正後通過。","有關於第三案，提案委員是黃建賓委員。"],["黃委員建賓：是，謝謝主席。主席，這部分我有跟部會討論文字上的修正，要不要請部會說明？"],["主席：好，請部長作相關說明。"],["潘部長文忠：跟主席還有委員報告，謝謝黃委員這項提案。只有一項文字修正，就是最後一行，因為這些要我們一起協調的單位不盡是教育部所屬，所以將「所屬」改成「相關」，其餘我們配合辦理。"],["主席：好，文字修正後通過，謝謝。","雖然已經12點18分，但會議還是繼續進行，也提醒因為已經到了中午時間，請列席委員質詢堅守5分鐘，不要超過，可以嗎？","請第14位的鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:52,235\n認為其實風險的來源有一個部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政只要人不在自己的系統中就不管當然司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業教育體系輔導人力的不足讓少年教師同學家長目前都有很大的焦慮我們整理了從我們看到的資料當中就是這個暴險跟觸法少年回歸校園的問題中\n\n2\n00:00:54,036 --> 00:00:54,196\n發言委員：范雲\n\n3\n00:01:09,053 --> 00:01:12,475\n請問部長針對待了少關所一段時間返回學校的少年您是不是同意需要轉弦的機制\n\n4\n00:01:39,793 --> 00:02:07,105\n我贊成,而且我跟委員報告這次也是我們幾個跨部會包括跨院的討論的一個重點就是在於我們這個少教官或少保官對於這些司法少年要做這個瞭解所謂的調查跟要做最終要裁決就是委員說是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷這一段是我們這次幾個跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論有的共識\n\n5\n00:02:08,726 --> 00:02:09,347\n司法院主導的保護管束風險管理計劃\n\n6\n00:02:33,550 --> 00:02:59,612\n那我想請問的是就是我想請問先請部長好了我剛研究了一下就是說我們辦公室之前看到有點不清楚這兩個之間的關係社區中介教育跟司法院事辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫那你們要做分類跟風險評估就是我剛所講這一塊那這裡面有沒有學校的代表在裡面那個請問司法院的廳長謝廳長\n\n7\n00:03:02,062 --> 00:03:23,744\n那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有你說委員是說你們事辦中的就是今年2月1號開始事辦到明年的跟委員報告其實從110年開始我們跟行政院包含教育部每個個案其實都會只要少年在學校上學那學校一定會跟法院法院也會跟學校\n\n8\n00:03:24,264 --> 00:03:44,834\n但會密切的去了解學校在處理學生的問題之下所以會有學校的代表參與這個風險管理的個案的討論嗎?會,比如說舉例來說以台南地院來說因為1號開始大概每個禮拜他們大概就會去檢討主案的去評估少年風險因子那如果說要開會就會通知學校派員來\n\n9\n00:03:45,734 --> 00:03:46,194\n我有跟委員報告\n\n10\n00:04:05,279 --> 00:04:12,986\n我們原來對不到叫做暴險少年或司法少年的這部分原來的教育體系就有關高關懷班或資源班那個辭彙班跟中途學校合作的這種模式啦那這個模式基本上的對象\n\n11\n00:04:26,858 --> 00:04:26,878\n韓國瑜議員\n\n12\n00:04:49,580 --> 00:04:49,720\n主席\n\n13\n00:05:10,947 --> 00:05:11,227\n司法院議員\n\n14\n00:05:31,834 --> 00:05:34,276\n現在整個要啟動這個機制我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的比如說我們少年法庭的少保官或調查官或我們要即將準備要接受這個學生或原來就是這個學校的學生然後我們幾個相關的機構應該在這樣的討論過程能夠有充分的交換意見\n\n15\n00:05:56,149 --> 00:05:56,470\n學校接得起來嗎\n\n16\n00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:32,683\n這部分我想教育部就教育部這邊能夠處理的那到底是不是就是說你們跟司法體系的這個對接接的夠不夠目前司法院正在發展的事辦計畫跟你們這個社區中介教育之間要不要再有怎麼樣轉型的部分那部長多久可以給我辦公室一個報告呢\n\n17\n00:06:35,401 --> 00:06:49,508\n因為這個可能在進行中因為司法院這個我讀過這個方案是真的跟過去來講是一個更能夠對於這些暴險少年當然也要支持有更多的人力少保官來因為那個到事後比如裁決後的持續追蹤列管\n\n18\n00:06:54,170 --> 00:07:05,143\n其實這個需要時間跟人力那如果是這樣我覺得教育體系、學校體系跟我們司法體系它就連接得很好那個中介基地是一個場域就是說它可能要幾個月後評估後才適合回到學校但是這個人力上的幾個主管機關我認為是一個非常重要的串接\n\n19\n00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:17,000\n教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地非常重要請問目前你們對於哪些少年需要進入這個基地什麼時候離開有沒有規定這個本身回學校的時候是不是有轉嫌機制\n\n20\n00:07:38,432 --> 00:07:59,428\n這個就跟您上面所關心的我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關聯性的這個教育部跟各縣市未來在3月這個方案定下來5月開始這個其實我們當時設定的對象是有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能比較不彰的他不是暴險少年\n\n21\n00:08:01,629 --> 00:08:18,906\n其實我們本來就有幾個中途的教育的措施在那這一次這個基地比較是撫顯少年或司法少年為主要的所以在跟民間團體合作的這方面目前三十幾個團體也都是過去有接觸協助過撫顯少年的這種經驗的團體為主\n\n22\n00:08:22,970 --> 00:08:30,937\n那沒有關係喔那針對這個部分那跟剛剛是一樣的齁那關於就是說最後回到校園之間喔怎麼樣誰應該參與轉弦的會議或機制也請那個部長那個一個月報告裡面一起給我喔那因為時間的緣故喔我想直接問部長一個相關的問題剛剛並沒有人問的喔\n\n23\n00:08:45,208 --> 00:09:02,743\n因為我們知道這裡面的觸法跟暴嫌少年其中有一種是性犯罪就是性侵的據說這樣子的一個少年那相關的輔導處理裡面他的每一關因為性媒體的教育法主管機關是教育部那這裡面的每一關會不會有相關的專業人士參與跟進行呢?\n\n24\n00:09:07,521 --> 00:09:29,692\n委員如果因為性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是跟這些性別事件但是委員所提到這一類對象的學生過去教育部也在全國有幾個地方就是有關屬於性剝削等的已經是處罰的了他也有幾個中途學校\n\n25\n00:09:30,953 --> 00:09:47,372\n因為我們上週《性平法》、《三法》剛好三八婦女節實施,矯正學校我們也設置了性平會那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下那少年在不同的階段相關的機制裡面是不是都有專業的人員一起參與他的輔導處置\n\n26\n00:09:51,477 --> 00:09:53,499\n主委應該說目前已經經過防治條例的這些措施之後的學校目前就是有幾個據點以這個對象為一個處理\n\n27\n00:10:09,736 --> 00:10:33,550\n那相關的這部分也給我辦公室一個月一個報告好嗎這個關於這個性犯罪的部分那最後呢我想針對司法院的部分我非常認同就是你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作那調查跟保護目前沒有分類調查官兼保護官也是個問題那我想我們應該要一起爭取鬆綁員額能夠增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力讓他們能夠適當的分工\n\n28\n00:10:39,674 --> 00:10:39,835\n謝謝范委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2381\t25981\t響鐘\n26801\t52235\t認為其實風險的來源有一個部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政只要人不在自己的系統中就不管當然司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業教育體系輔導人力的不足讓少年教師同學家長目前都有很大的焦慮我們整理了從我們看到的資料當中就是這個暴險跟觸法少年回歸校園的問題中\n54036\t54196\t發言委員：范雲\n69053\t72475\t請問部長針對待了少關所一段時間返回學校的少年您是不是同意需要轉弦的機制\n99793\t127105\t我贊成,而且我跟委員報告這次也是我們幾個跨部會包括跨院的討論的一個重點就是在於我們這個少教官或少保官對於這些司法少年要做這個瞭解所謂的調查跟要做最終要裁決就是委員說是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷這一段是我們這次幾個跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論有的共識\n128726\t129347\t司法院主導的保護管束風險管理計劃\n153550\t179612\t那我想請問的是就是我想請問先請部長好了我剛研究了一下就是說我們辦公室之前看到有點不清楚這兩個之間的關係社區中介教育跟司法院事辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫那你們要做分類跟風險評估就是我剛所講這一塊那這裡面有沒有學校的代表在裡面那個請問司法院的廳長謝廳長\n182062\t203744\t那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有你說委員是說你們事辦中的就是今年2月1號開始事辦到明年的跟委員報告其實從110年開始我們跟行政院包含教育部每個個案其實都會只要少年在學校上學那學校一定會跟法院法院也會跟學校\n204264\t224834\t但會密切的去了解學校在處理學生的問題之下所以會有學校的代表參與這個風險管理的個案的討論嗎?會,比如說舉例來說以台南地院來說因為1號開始大概每個禮拜他們大概就會去檢討主案的去評估少年風險因子那如果說要開會就會通知學校派員來\n225734\t226194\t我有跟委員報告\n245279\t252986\t我們原來對不到叫做暴險少年或司法少年的這部分原來的教育體系就有關高關懷班或資源班那個辭彙班跟中途學校合作的這種模式啦那這個模式基本上的對象\n266858\t266878\t韓國瑜議員\n289580\t289720\t主席\n310947\t311227\t司法院議員\n331834\t334276\t現在整個要啟動這個機制我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的比如說我們少年法庭的少保官或調查官或我們要即將準備要接受這個學生或原來就是這個學校的學生然後我們幾個相關的機構應該在這樣的討論過程能夠有充分的交換意見\n356149\t356470\t學校接得起來嗎\n373110\t392683\t這部分我想教育部就教育部這邊能夠處理的那到底是不是就是說你們跟司法體系的這個對接接的夠不夠目前司法院正在發展的事辦計畫跟你們這個社區中介教育之間要不要再有怎麼樣轉型的部分那部長多久可以給我辦公室一個報告呢\n395401\t409508\t因為這個可能在進行中因為司法院這個我讀過這個方案是真的跟過去來講是一個更能夠對於這些暴險少年當然也要支持有更多的人力少保官來因為那個到事後比如裁決後的持續追蹤列管\n414170\t425143\t其實這個需要時間跟人力那如果是這樣我覺得教育體系、學校體系跟我們司法體系它就連接得很好那個中介基地是一個場域就是說它可能要幾個月後評估後才適合回到學校但是這個人力上的幾個主管機關我認為是一個非常重要的串接\n434639\t437000\t教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地非常重要請問目前你們對於哪些少年需要進入這個基地什麼時候離開有沒有規定這個本身回學校的時候是不是有轉嫌機制\n458432\t479428\t這個就跟您上面所關心的我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關聯性的這個教育部跟各縣市未來在3月這個方案定下來5月開始這個其實我們當時設定的對象是有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能比較不彰的他不是暴險少年\n481629\t498906\t其實我們本來就有幾個中途的教育的措施在那這一次這個基地比較是撫顯少年或司法少年為主要的所以在跟民間團體合作的這方面目前三十幾個團體也都是過去有接觸協助過撫顯少年的這種經驗的團體為主\n502970\t510937\t那沒有關係喔那針對這個部分那跟剛剛是一樣的齁那關於就是說最後回到校園之間喔怎麼樣誰應該參與轉弦的會議或機制也請那個部長那個一個月報告裡面一起給我喔那因為時間的緣故喔我想直接問部長一個相關的問題剛剛並沒有人問的喔\n525208\t542743\t因為我們知道這裡面的觸法跟暴嫌少年其中有一種是性犯罪就是性侵的據說這樣子的一個少年那相關的輔導處理裡面他的每一關因為性媒體的教育法主管機關是教育部那這裡面的每一關會不會有相關的專業人士參與跟進行呢?\n547521\t569692\t委員如果因為性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是跟這些性別事件但是委員所提到這一類對象的學生過去教育部也在全國有幾個地方就是有關屬於性剝削等的已經是處罰的了他也有幾個中途學校\n570953\t587372\t因為我們上週《性平法》、《三法》剛好三八婦女節實施,矯正學校我們也設置了性平會那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下那少年在不同的階段相關的機制裡面是不是都有專業的人員一起參與他的輔導處置\n591477\t593499\t主委應該說目前已經經過防治條例的這些措施之後的學校目前就是有幾個據點以這個對象為一個處理\n609736\t633550\t那相關的這部分也給我辦公室一個月一個報告好嗎這個關於這個性犯罪的部分那最後呢我想針對司法院的部分我非常認同就是你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作那調查跟保護目前沒有分類調查官兼保護官也是個問題那我想我們應該要一起爭取鬆綁員額能夠增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力讓他們能夠適當的分工\n639674\t639835\t謝謝范委員\n","txt":"響鐘\n認為其實風險的來源有一個部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政只要人不在自己的系統中就不管當然司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業教育體系輔導人力的不足讓少年教師同學家長目前都有很大的焦慮我們整理了從我們看到的資料當中就是這個暴險跟觸法少年回歸校園的問題中\n發言委員：范雲\n請問部長針對待了少關所一段時間返回學校的少年您是不是同意需要轉弦的機制\n我贊成,而且我跟委員報告這次也是我們幾個跨部會包括跨院的討論的一個重點就是在於我們這個少教官或少保官對於這些司法少年要做這個瞭解所謂的調查跟要做最終要裁決就是委員說是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷這一段是我們這次幾個跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論有的共識\n司法院主導的保護管束風險管理計劃\n那我想請問的是就是我想請問先請部長好了我剛研究了一下就是說我們辦公室之前看到有點不清楚這兩個之間的關係社區中介教育跟司法院事辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫那你們要做分類跟風險評估就是我剛所講這一塊那這裡面有沒有學校的代表在裡面那個請問司法院的廳長謝廳長\n那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有你說委員是說你們事辦中的就是今年2月1號開始事辦到明年的跟委員報告其實從110年開始我們跟行政院包含教育部每個個案其實都會只要少年在學校上學那學校一定會跟法院法院也會跟學校\n但會密切的去了解學校在處理學生的問題之下所以會有學校的代表參與這個風險管理的個案的討論嗎?會,比如說舉例來說以台南地院來說因為1號開始大概每個禮拜他們大概就會去檢討主案的去評估少年風險因子那如果說要開會就會通知學校派員來\n我有跟委員報告\n我們原來對不到叫做暴險少年或司法少年的這部分原來的教育體系就有關高關懷班或資源班那個辭彙班跟中途學校合作的這種模式啦那這個模式基本上的對象\n韓國瑜議員\n主席\n司法院議員\n現在整個要啟動這個機制我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的比如說我們少年法庭的少保官或調查官或我們要即將準備要接受這個學生或原來就是這個學校的學生然後我們幾個相關的機構應該在這樣的討論過程能夠有充分的交換意見\n學校接得起來嗎\n這部分我想教育部就教育部這邊能夠處理的那到底是不是就是說你們跟司法體系的這個對接接的夠不夠目前司法院正在發展的事辦計畫跟你們這個社區中介教育之間要不要再有怎麼樣轉型的部分那部長多久可以給我辦公室一個報告呢\n因為這個可能在進行中因為司法院這個我讀過這個方案是真的跟過去來講是一個更能夠對於這些暴險少年當然也要支持有更多的人力少保官來因為那個到事後比如裁決後的持續追蹤列管\n其實這個需要時間跟人力那如果是這樣我覺得教育體系、學校體系跟我們司法體系它就連接得很好那個中介基地是一個場域就是說它可能要幾個月後評估後才適合回到學校但是這個人力上的幾個主管機關我認為是一個非常重要的串接\n教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地非常重要請問目前你們對於哪些少年需要進入這個基地什麼時候離開有沒有規定這個本身回學校的時候是不是有轉嫌機制\n這個就跟您上面所關心的我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關聯性的這個教育部跟各縣市未來在3月這個方案定下來5月開始這個其實我們當時設定的對象是有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能比較不彰的他不是暴險少年\n其實我們本來就有幾個中途的教育的措施在那這一次這個基地比較是撫顯少年或司法少年為主要的所以在跟民間團體合作的這方面目前三十幾個團體也都是過去有接觸協助過撫顯少年的這種經驗的團體為主\n那沒有關係喔那針對這個部分那跟剛剛是一樣的齁那關於就是說最後回到校園之間喔怎麼樣誰應該參與轉弦的會議或機制也請那個部長那個一個月報告裡面一起給我喔那因為時間的緣故喔我想直接問部長一個相關的問題剛剛並沒有人問的喔\n因為我們知道這裡面的觸法跟暴嫌少年其中有一種是性犯罪就是性侵的據說這樣子的一個少年那相關的輔導處理裡面他的每一關因為性媒體的教育法主管機關是教育部那這裡面的每一關會不會有相關的專業人士參與跟進行呢?\n委員如果因為性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是跟這些性別事件但是委員所提到這一類對象的學生過去教育部也在全國有幾個地方就是有關屬於性剝削等的已經是處罰的了他也有幾個中途學校\n因為我們上週《性平法》、《三法》剛好三八婦女節實施,矯正學校我們也設置了性平會那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下那少年在不同的階段相關的機制裡面是不是都有專業的人員一起參與他的輔導處置\n主委應該說目前已經經過防治條例的這些措施之後的學校目前就是有幾個據點以這個對象為一個處理\n那相關的這部分也給我辦公室一個月一個報告好嗎這個關於這個性犯罪的部分那最後呢我想針對司法院的部分我非常認同就是你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作那調查跟保護目前沒有分類調查官兼保護官也是個問題那我想我們應該要一起爭取鬆綁員額能夠增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力讓他們能夠適當的分工\n謝謝范委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:26.801 --> 00:52.235\n認為其實風險的來源有一個部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政只要人不在自己的系統中就不管當然司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業教育體系輔導人力的不足讓少年教師同學家長目前都有很大的焦慮我們整理了從我們看到的資料當中就是這個暴險跟觸法少年回歸校園的問題中\n\n00:54.036 --> 00:54.196\n發言委員：范雲\n\n01:09.053 --> 01:12.475\n請問部長針對待了少關所一段時間返回學校的少年您是不是同意需要轉弦的機制\n\n01:39.793 --> 02:07.105\n我贊成,而且我跟委員報告這次也是我們幾個跨部會包括跨院的討論的一個重點就是在於我們這個少教官或少保官對於這些司法少年要做這個瞭解所謂的調查跟要做最終要裁決就是委員說是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷這一段是我們這次幾個跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論有的共識\n\n02:08.726 --> 02:09.347\n司法院主導的保護管束風險管理計劃\n\n02:33.550 --> 02:59.612\n那我想請問的是就是我想請問先請部長好了我剛研究了一下就是說我們辦公室之前看到有點不清楚這兩個之間的關係社區中介教育跟司法院事辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫那你們要做分類跟風險評估就是我剛所講這一塊那這裡面有沒有學校的代表在裡面那個請問司法院的廳長謝廳長\n\n03:02.062 --> 03:23.744\n那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有你說委員是說你們事辦中的就是今年2月1號開始事辦到明年的跟委員報告其實從110年開始我們跟行政院包含教育部每個個案其實都會只要少年在學校上學那學校一定會跟法院法院也會跟學校\n\n03:24.264 --> 03:44.834\n但會密切的去了解學校在處理學生的問題之下所以會有學校的代表參與這個風險管理的個案的討論嗎?會,比如說舉例來說以台南地院來說因為1號開始大概每個禮拜他們大概就會去檢討主案的去評估少年風險因子那如果說要開會就會通知學校派員來\n\n03:45.734 --> 03:46.194\n我有跟委員報告\n\n04:05.279 --> 04:12.986\n我們原來對不到叫做暴險少年或司法少年的這部分原來的教育體系就有關高關懷班或資源班那個辭彙班跟中途學校合作的這種模式啦那這個模式基本上的對象\n\n04:26.858 --> 04:26.878\n韓國瑜議員\n\n04:49.580 --> 04:49.720\n主席\n\n05:10.947 --> 05:11.227\n司法院議員\n\n05:31.834 --> 05:34.276\n現在整個要啟動這個機制我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的比如說我們少年法庭的少保官或調查官或我們要即將準備要接受這個學生或原來就是這個學校的學生然後我們幾個相關的機構應該在這樣的討論過程能夠有充分的交換意見\n\n05:56.149 --> 05:56.470\n學校接得起來嗎\n\n06:13.110 --> 06:32.683\n這部分我想教育部就教育部這邊能夠處理的那到底是不是就是說你們跟司法體系的這個對接接的夠不夠目前司法院正在發展的事辦計畫跟你們這個社區中介教育之間要不要再有怎麼樣轉型的部分那部長多久可以給我辦公室一個報告呢\n\n06:35.401 --> 06:49.508\n因為這個可能在進行中因為司法院這個我讀過這個方案是真的跟過去來講是一個更能夠對於這些暴險少年當然也要支持有更多的人力少保官來因為那個到事後比如裁決後的持續追蹤列管\n\n06:54.170 --> 07:05.143\n其實這個需要時間跟人力那如果是這樣我覺得教育體系、學校體系跟我們司法體系它就連接得很好那個中介基地是一個場域就是說它可能要幾個月後評估後才適合回到學校但是這個人力上的幾個主管機關我認為是一個非常重要的串接\n\n07:14.639 --> 07:17.000\n教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地非常重要請問目前你們對於哪些少年需要進入這個基地什麼時候離開有沒有規定這個本身回學校的時候是不是有轉嫌機制\n\n07:38.432 --> 07:59.428\n這個就跟您上面所關心的我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關聯性的這個教育部跟各縣市未來在3月這個方案定下來5月開始這個其實我們當時設定的對象是有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能比較不彰的他不是暴險少年\n\n08:01.629 --> 08:18.906\n其實我們本來就有幾個中途的教育的措施在那這一次這個基地比較是撫顯少年或司法少年為主要的所以在跟民間團體合作的這方面目前三十幾個團體也都是過去有接觸協助過撫顯少年的這種經驗的團體為主\n\n08:22.970 --> 08:30.937\n那沒有關係喔那針對這個部分那跟剛剛是一樣的齁那關於就是說最後回到校園之間喔怎麼樣誰應該參與轉弦的會議或機制也請那個部長那個一個月報告裡面一起給我喔那因為時間的緣故喔我想直接問部長一個相關的問題剛剛並沒有人問的喔\n\n08:45.208 --> 09:02.743\n因為我們知道這裡面的觸法跟暴嫌少年其中有一種是性犯罪就是性侵的據說這樣子的一個少年那相關的輔導處理裡面他的每一關因為性媒體的教育法主管機關是教育部那這裡面的每一關會不會有相關的專業人士參與跟進行呢?\n\n09:07.521 --> 09:29.692\n委員如果因為性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是跟這些性別事件但是委員所提到這一類對象的學生過去教育部也在全國有幾個地方就是有關屬於性剝削等的已經是處罰的了他也有幾個中途學校\n\n09:30.953 --> 09:47.372\n因為我們上週《性平法》、《三法》剛好三八婦女節實施,矯正學校我們也設置了性平會那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下那少年在不同的階段相關的機制裡面是不是都有專業的人員一起參與他的輔導處置\n\n09:51.477 --> 09:53.499\n主委應該說目前已經經過防治條例的這些措施之後的學校目前就是有幾個據點以這個對象為一個處理\n\n10:09.736 --> 10:33.550\n那相關的這部分也給我辦公室一個月一個報告好嗎這個關於這個性犯罪的部分那最後呢我想針對司法院的部分我非常認同就是你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作那調查跟保護目前沒有分類調查官兼保護官也是個問題那我想我們應該要一起爭取鬆綁員額能夠增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力讓他們能夠適當的分工\n\n10:39.674 --> 10:39.835\n謝謝范委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.381,"end":25.981,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":26.801,"end":52.235,"text":"認為其實風險的來源有一個部分就是教育體系跟司法體系各自為政只要人不在自己的系統中就不管當然司法體系沒辦法兼顧課業教育體系輔導人力的不足讓少年教師同學家長目前都有很大的焦慮我們整理了從我們看到的資料當中就是這個暴險跟觸法少年回歸校園的問題中"},{"start":54.036,"end":54.196,"text":"發言委員：范雲"},{"start":69.053,"end":72.475,"text":"請問部長針對待了少關所一段時間返回學校的少年您是不是同意需要轉弦的機制"},{"start":99.793,"end":127.105,"text":"我贊成,而且我跟委員報告這次也是我們幾個跨部會包括跨院的討論的一個重點就是在於我們這個少教官或少保官對於這些司法少年要做這個瞭解所謂的調查跟要做最終要裁決就是委員說是不是應該安置在什麼地方的判斷這一段是我們這次幾個跨部會、跨院非常聚焦討論有的共識"},{"start":128.726,"end":129.347,"text":"司法院主導的保護管束風險管理計劃"},{"start":153.55,"end":179.612,"text":"那我想請問的是就是我想請問先請部長好了我剛研究了一下就是說我們辦公室之前看到有點不清楚這兩個之間的關係社區中介教育跟司法院事辦中的保護管束風險管理計畫那你們要做分類跟風險評估就是我剛所講這一塊那這裡面有沒有學校的代表在裡面那個請問司法院的廳長謝廳長"},{"start":182.062,"end":203.744,"text":"那個保護管束風險管理計畫沒有你說委員是說你們事辦中的就是今年2月1號開始事辦到明年的跟委員報告其實從110年開始我們跟行政院包含教育部每個個案其實都會只要少年在學校上學那學校一定會跟法院法院也會跟學校"},{"start":204.264,"end":224.834,"text":"但會密切的去了解學校在處理學生的問題之下所以會有學校的代表參與這個風險管理的個案的討論嗎?會,比如說舉例來說以台南地院來說因為1號開始大概每個禮拜他們大概就會去檢討主案的去評估少年風險因子那如果說要開會就會通知學校派員來"},{"start":225.734,"end":226.194,"text":"我有跟委員報告"},{"start":245.279,"end":252.986,"text":"我們原來對不到叫做暴險少年或司法少年的這部分原來的教育體系就有關高關懷班或資源班那個辭彙班跟中途學校合作的這種模式啦那這個模式基本上的對象"},{"start":266.858,"end":266.878,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":289.58,"end":289.72,"text":"主席"},{"start":310.947,"end":311.227,"text":"司法院議員"},{"start":331.834,"end":334.276,"text":"現在整個要啟動這個機制我覺得這幾個非常關鍵的比如說我們少年法庭的少保官或調查官或我們要即將準備要接受這個學生或原來就是這個學校的學生然後我們幾個相關的機構應該在這樣的討論過程能夠有充分的交換意見"},{"start":356.149,"end":356.47,"text":"學校接得起來嗎"},{"start":373.11,"end":392.683,"text":"這部分我想教育部就教育部這邊能夠處理的那到底是不是就是說你們跟司法體系的這個對接接的夠不夠目前司法院正在發展的事辦計畫跟你們這個社區中介教育之間要不要再有怎麼樣轉型的部分那部長多久可以給我辦公室一個報告呢"},{"start":395.401,"end":409.508,"text":"因為這個可能在進行中因為司法院這個我讀過這個方案是真的跟過去來講是一個更能夠對於這些暴險少年當然也要支持有更多的人力少保官來因為那個到事後比如裁決後的持續追蹤列管"},{"start":414.17,"end":425.143,"text":"其實這個需要時間跟人力那如果是這樣我覺得教育體系、學校體系跟我們司法體系它就連接得很好那個中介基地是一個場域就是說它可能要幾個月後評估後才適合回到學校但是這個人力上的幾個主管機關我認為是一個非常重要的串接"},{"start":434.639,"end":437,"text":"教育部規劃的社區中介教育基地非常重要請問目前你們對於哪些少年需要進入這個基地什麼時候離開有沒有規定這個本身回學校的時候是不是有轉嫌機制"},{"start":458.432,"end":479.428,"text":"這個就跟您上面所關心的我們教育單位跟司法體系會有關聯性的這個教育部跟各縣市未來在3月這個方案定下來5月開始這個其實我們當時設定的對象是有別於過去屬於中輟孩子或家庭功能比較不彰的他不是暴險少年"},{"start":481.629,"end":498.906,"text":"其實我們本來就有幾個中途的教育的措施在那這一次這個基地比較是撫顯少年或司法少年為主要的所以在跟民間團體合作的這方面目前三十幾個團體也都是過去有接觸協助過撫顯少年的這種經驗的團體為主"},{"start":502.97,"end":510.937,"text":"那沒有關係喔那針對這個部分那跟剛剛是一樣的齁那關於就是說最後回到校園之間喔怎麼樣誰應該參與轉弦的會議或機制也請那個部長那個一個月報告裡面一起給我喔那因為時間的緣故喔我想直接問部長一個相關的問題剛剛並沒有人問的喔"},{"start":525.208,"end":542.743,"text":"因為我們知道這裡面的觸法跟暴嫌少年其中有一種是性犯罪就是性侵的據說這樣子的一個少年那相關的輔導處理裡面他的每一關因為性媒體的教育法主管機關是教育部那這裡面的每一關會不會有相關的專業人士參與跟進行呢?"},{"start":547.521,"end":569.692,"text":"委員如果因為性別平等教育法所處理的大概都是跟這些性別事件但是委員所提到這一類對象的學生過去教育部也在全國有幾個地方就是有關屬於性剝削等的已經是處罰的了他也有幾個中途學校"},{"start":570.953,"end":587.372,"text":"因為我們上週《性平法》、《三法》剛好三八婦女節實施,矯正學校我們也設置了性平會那教育部是不是也可以回去檢視一下那少年在不同的階段相關的機制裡面是不是都有專業的人員一起參與他的輔導處置"},{"start":591.477,"end":593.499,"text":"主委應該說目前已經經過防治條例的這些措施之後的學校目前就是有幾個據點以這個對象為一個處理"},{"start":609.736,"end":633.55,"text":"那相關的這部分也給我辦公室一個月一個報告好嗎這個關於這個性犯罪的部分那最後呢我想針對司法院的部分我非常認同就是你們目前的人力不足以承擔這麼重要的工作那調查跟保護目前沒有分類調查官兼保護官也是個問題那我想我們應該要一起爭取鬆綁員額能夠增加少年調查官跟保護官的人力讓他們能夠適當的分工"},{"start":639.674,"end":639.835,"text":"謝謝范委員"}]}}}}