{"id":150008,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150008","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a0cbee38d55de35a55d4e9913f58cb8d7f8ba9b0039caa7a64b89dbeabfb43c545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:05:56 - 12:13:04","影片長度":"00:07:08","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部首長率同中央氣象署署長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":428,"end_time":"2024-03-18T12:13:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T12:05:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":815,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時6分）主席、各位委員！有請次長。"],["主席：請林國顯次長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：次長好！"],["林次長國顯：鄭委員早。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為次長過去擔任過路政司司長，所以我今天就問有關公路的部分。"],["林次長國顯：那是10年前的事，不過沒關係，沒問題。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：公路總局有將臺東縣關山鎮東七線拓寬成為台九線外環道這樣的規劃，但是國防部則希望能興建戰備跑道，臺東關山鎮的鄉親不同意這個戰備跑道與關山的東七線併在一起，因為這樣會再拓寬很多，會增加很多農地變成道路的面積，所以他們反對，臺東縣長希望能夠再往東移，與河堤共構。上次進行花東快速公路可行性評估的時候，交通部公路總局有去關山開可行性評估說明會，由於花東快速公路目前的路線就是在河堤這個地方，所以鄉親也希望能跟花東快一樣建在河堤這個地方，這樣就不會影響很多的農田，若能如此，對這個戰備跑道我們絕對支持，因為糧食也很重要，尤其是戰爭期間，糧食也很重要，所以這個部分還請交通部能夠再考量。我也就此質詢過國防部，國防部部長說會跟交通部公路總局再研議，這個部分希望能往這個方向考慮。"],["林次長國顯：謝謝委員！我想花東快原來就有選定一條路，現在台九外環線如果要跟它整合，看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理，我想我們會和公總再一起討論一下。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好好研議。"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為畢竟是人民的意見。"],["林次長國顯：瞭解，但是戰備道有它的規範，不能在有高架橋的地方，所以這個我們還要看軍方的需求。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那一段不一定要高架。"],["林次長國顯：瞭解，那我們就看選線跟這一條可不可以整合。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：接下來的最後一個議題是蘇花安的環評卡關，這個部分如果去對照蘇花改，那時候你還在，對吧？"],["林次長國顯：是，環評是我們做的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，是你在路政司任職的時候，行政院在97年11月10號同意蘇花改的可行性研究，到99年僅2年時間就完成了環評，現在蘇花改已經完成了，要進行的是蘇花安，但事實上以蘇花改跟蘇花安相較，蘇花改的難度更高，行政院在108年核定蘇花安的可行性研究，但是環評到現在都還沒有完成，所以這個部分是一個需要去加強的地方。而且因為有時候來的環評人員不一樣……"],["林次長國顯：委員會更換。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，會換，所以在這部分，公路總局、交通部你們說明的時候要把它說清楚，要讓他先知道蘇花改當時的難度和影響更高，這個蘇花安是比較低的，因為環評的人不一樣，所以這會出現讓人覺得很奇怪的一個狀況，這個部分要講明。"],["林次長國顯：確實，對這個部分，我想我們公路局應該要充分來說明，您提的沒有錯，當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改，蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理了，所以理論上，蘇花安在環境影響上應該是相對較少，對環評委員提的意見，我請公路局去說明。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要做很好的說明，尤其是因為你們是要做高架，有的意見是說做高架的話會不會影響什麼什麼，對這樣的意見你們可以馬上拿南迴公路給他看，南迴公路現在都是高架，對環評人員我們不批評，但要讓他瞭解、能夠支持。"],["林次長國顯：因為高架反而對地表生態的影響相對來說是小的，那就看委員的考量。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，因為我們已經有案例了，第一個就是蘇花改的案例，就是透過隧道或是其他的方式。第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例，就是南迴公路，每次經過南迴公路那邊大家都是「哇！超棒」，我都稱南迴公路那一段是臺東的高速公路。"],["林次長國顯：那一段做得很好，我想我們要瞭解環評委員的考量是什麼，公路局針對他的疑慮再跟他們說明清楚。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要充分的說明，讓他瞭解。我不責怪這些環評人員，因為他是第一次接觸，可能是第一次參加這個環評，他就要盡他的責任，但是如果說清楚講明白，把很好的案例告訴他，我相信他會支持。"],["林次長國顯：謝謝委員，我們再來轉達。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭委員發言完畢。","現在請謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員不在。","現在請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","現在請許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員不在。","現在請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","現在請林德福委員、林德福委員、林德福委員不在。","現在請陳俊宇委員、陳俊宇委員、陳俊宇委員不在。","現在請羅廷瑋委員、羅廷瑋委員、羅廷瑋委員不在。","現在請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","現在請張雅琳委員、張雅琳委員、張雅琳委員不在。","現在請羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","現在請傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員不在。","現在請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","現在請林思銘委員、林思銘委員、林思銘委員不在。","現在請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","現在請蘇巧慧委員、蘇巧慧委員、蘇巧慧委員不在。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢；委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復的部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。","本日議程處理完畢，現在休息，3月20日（星期三）上午9點繼續開會。","休息（12時15分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","林沛祥","陳雪生","邱若華","許智傑","游顥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:08,522\n臺東縣、關山鎮、東七縣要拓寬成為臺九縣的外環道公路總局有在做這樣的規劃但是國防部是希望能夠新建戰備跑道\n\n3\n00:01:11,125 --> 00:01:33,990\n所以這個臺東關山鎮的鄉親就不同意這個戰備跑道蓋在這個要跟這個關山的這個東七線並在一起因為這裡面會在拓寬很多就會增加很多的這個農地的一個農田會被稻田\n\n4\n00:01:35,170 --> 00:01:55,703\n會被這個成為一個道路所以他們反對那這個台東的鄉親現場來講就希望能夠再往東移以這個合體共構合體共構在這個上次啊\n\n5\n00:01:56,636 --> 00:02:16,607\n花東快速公路可行性評估的時候交通部、公路總局有去關山做可行性評估的說明會民眾也建議因為這個花東快速公路的目前的路線就是在\n\n6\n00:02:42,648 --> 00:02:44,669\n我想花東快原來就有選定一個路啦\n\n7\n00:03:09,406 --> 00:03:36,815\n那現在台九外環縣如果要跟他整合看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理這個我想工總我們再一起好演繹因為畢竟是人民的意見但是戰備道有他的規範他大概不能在高架橋的地方所以這個我們要看軍方的那個地方那一段不一定要高架那我們就看選縣跟這一條格不可以整合接下來最後一個議題\n\n8\n00:03:38,523 --> 00:03:50,668\n蘇花安的環評卡關這個部分如果我們去對照蘇花改蘇花改的時候你那時候還在嗎是環評是我們做的所以這個\n\n9\n00:03:54,199 --> 00:04:22,375\n蘇花改97年11月10號行政院同意可行性的研究99年兩年就完成的環評當初而如果舊蘇花改跟現在的蘇花改已經完成了那現在蘇花安在進行事實上舊蘇花改跟蘇花安蘇花改的難度更高所以這個部分以現在的來看\n\n10\n00:04:23,621 --> 00:04:28,636\n蘇巴安行政院在108年合併可行性研究\n\n11\n00:04:30,417 --> 00:04:35,279\n委員會更換對要會換所以這部分公務總局啊交通部你們在這說明的時候要把它說清楚就是說說話改的\n\n12\n00:04:56,647 --> 00:05:23,892\n當時的那個難度影響的更高這個蘇花安是比較要把它說明要讓他先知道因為環評的人不一樣啊所以這會覺得很奇怪的一個狀況所以這個部分我想這個我們公眾應該要公路局應該要充分來說明您提的沒有錯當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理\n\n13\n00:05:24,952 --> 00:05:46,575\n所以理論上舒嬅安應該是相對環境影響上少但是環評委員提的意見我想我請公務局詳細來說明尤其是有的意見是說因為你要做高價嘛做高價的時候會不會影響什麼什麼馬上拿回公路給他看嘛\n\n14\n00:05:47,316 --> 00:06:03,198\n南迴公路現在都高架嘛所以這個部分是一個讓環評人員我們不批評他但是讓他了解能夠支持因為高架環的對地表的生態影響相對是小的對因為我們委員的考量\n\n15\n00:06:03,618 --> 00:06:23,773\n因為我們已經有案例了第一個就是速發改的案例這在透過隧道或是其他的第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例就是這個南回公路嘛南回公路這個部分每次經過那邊哇這超棒我每次我都我都稱這個\n\n16\n00:06:25,566 --> 00:06:49,093\n那個公路那一段我都說那個是臺東的高速公路我想我們要了解一下環評委員的考量是什麼公路局針對他的疑慮要充分的說明讓他了解讓他了解我不責怪這些環評委員但是因為他第一次接觸\n\n17\n00:06:49,693 --> 00:06:50,194\n謝謝政委員發言完畢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20314\t41903\t主席委員有請這個次長請林國賢次長次長好早因為過去你擔任過路政司司長是是這個今天就問這個公路的部分10年前我沒關係那10年前沒關係\n48883\t68522\t臺東縣、關山鎮、東七縣要拓寬成為臺九縣的外環道公路總局有在做這樣的規劃但是國防部是希望能夠新建戰備跑道\n71125\t93990\t所以這個臺東關山鎮的鄉親就不同意這個戰備跑道蓋在這個要跟這個關山的這個東七線並在一起因為這裡面會在拓寬很多就會增加很多的這個農地的一個農田會被稻田\n95170\t115703\t會被這個成為一個道路所以他們反對那這個台東的鄉親現場來講就希望能夠再往東移以這個合體共構合體共構在這個上次啊\n116636\t136607\t花東快速公路可行性評估的時候交通部、公路總局有去關山做可行性評估的說明會民眾也建議因為這個花東快速公路的目前的路線就是在\n137688\t161903\t﹏﹏\n162648\t164669\t我想花東快原來就有選定一個路啦\n189406\t216815\t那現在台九外環縣如果要跟他整合看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理這個我想工總我們再一起好演繹因為畢竟是人民的意見但是戰備道有他的規範他大概不能在高架橋的地方所以這個我們要看軍方的那個地方那一段不一定要高架那我們就看選縣跟這一條格不可以整合接下來最後一個議題\n218523\t230668\t蘇花安的環評卡關這個部分如果我們去對照蘇花改蘇花改的時候你那時候還在嗎是環評是我們做的所以這個\n234199\t262375\t蘇花改97年11月10號行政院同意可行性的研究99年兩年就完成的環評當初而如果舊蘇花改跟現在的蘇花改已經完成了那現在蘇花安在進行事實上舊蘇花改跟蘇花安蘇花改的難度更高所以這個部分以現在的來看\n263621\t268636\t蘇巴安行政院在108年合併可行性研究\n270417\t275279\t委員會更換對要會換所以這部分公務總局啊交通部你們在這說明的時候要把它說清楚就是說說話改的\n296647\t323892\t當時的那個難度影響的更高這個蘇花安是比較要把它說明要讓他先知道因為環評的人不一樣啊所以這會覺得很奇怪的一個狀況所以這個部分我想這個我們公眾應該要公路局應該要充分來說明您提的沒有錯當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理\n324952\t346575\t所以理論上舒嬅安應該是相對環境影響上少但是環評委員提的意見我想我請公務局詳細來說明尤其是有的意見是說因為你要做高價嘛做高價的時候會不會影響什麼什麼馬上拿回公路給他看嘛\n347316\t363198\t南迴公路現在都高架嘛所以這個部分是一個讓環評人員我們不批評他但是讓他了解能夠支持因為高架環的對地表的生態影響相對是小的對因為我們委員的考量\n363618\t383773\t因為我們已經有案例了第一個就是速發改的案例這在透過隧道或是其他的第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例就是這個南回公路嘛南回公路這個部分每次經過那邊哇這超棒我每次我都我都稱這個\n385566\t409093\t那個公路那一段我都說那個是臺東的高速公路我想我們要了解一下環評委員的考量是什麼公路局針對他的疑慮要充分的說明讓他了解讓他了解我不責怪這些環評委員但是因為他第一次接觸\n409693\t410194\t謝謝政委員發言完畢\n","txt":"主席委員有請這個次長請林國賢次長次長好早因為過去你擔任過路政司司長是是這個今天就問這個公路的部分10年前我沒關係那10年前沒關係\n臺東縣、關山鎮、東七縣要拓寬成為臺九縣的外環道公路總局有在做這樣的規劃但是國防部是希望能夠新建戰備跑道\n所以這個臺東關山鎮的鄉親就不同意這個戰備跑道蓋在這個要跟這個關山的這個東七線並在一起因為這裡面會在拓寬很多就會增加很多的這個農地的一個農田會被稻田\n會被這個成為一個道路所以他們反對那這個台東的鄉親現場來講就希望能夠再往東移以這個合體共構合體共構在這個上次啊\n花東快速公路可行性評估的時候交通部、公路總局有去關山做可行性評估的說明會民眾也建議因為這個花東快速公路的目前的路線就是在\n﹏﹏\n我想花東快原來就有選定一個路啦\n那現在台九外環縣如果要跟他整合看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理這個我想工總我們再一起好演繹因為畢竟是人民的意見但是戰備道有他的規範他大概不能在高架橋的地方所以這個我們要看軍方的那個地方那一段不一定要高架那我們就看選縣跟這一條格不可以整合接下來最後一個議題\n蘇花安的環評卡關這個部分如果我們去對照蘇花改蘇花改的時候你那時候還在嗎是環評是我們做的所以這個\n蘇花改97年11月10號行政院同意可行性的研究99年兩年就完成的環評當初而如果舊蘇花改跟現在的蘇花改已經完成了那現在蘇花安在進行事實上舊蘇花改跟蘇花安蘇花改的難度更高所以這個部分以現在的來看\n蘇巴安行政院在108年合併可行性研究\n委員會更換對要會換所以這部分公務總局啊交通部你們在這說明的時候要把它說清楚就是說說話改的\n當時的那個難度影響的更高這個蘇花安是比較要把它說明要讓他先知道因為環評的人不一樣啊所以這會覺得很奇怪的一個狀況所以這個部分我想這個我們公眾應該要公路局應該要充分來說明您提的沒有錯當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理\n所以理論上舒嬅安應該是相對環境影響上少但是環評委員提的意見我想我請公務局詳細來說明尤其是有的意見是說因為你要做高價嘛做高價的時候會不會影響什麼什麼馬上拿回公路給他看嘛\n南迴公路現在都高架嘛所以這個部分是一個讓環評人員我們不批評他但是讓他了解能夠支持因為高架環的對地表的生態影響相對是小的對因為我們委員的考量\n因為我們已經有案例了第一個就是速發改的案例這在透過隧道或是其他的第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例就是這個南回公路嘛南回公路這個部分每次經過那邊哇這超棒我每次我都我都稱這個\n那個公路那一段我都說那個是臺東的高速公路我想我們要了解一下環評委員的考量是什麼公路局針對他的疑慮要充分的說明讓他了解讓他了解我不責怪這些環評委員但是因為他第一次接觸\n謝謝政委員發言完畢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.314 --> 00:41.903\n主席委員有請這個次長請林國賢次長次長好早因為過去你擔任過路政司司長是是這個今天就問這個公路的部分10年前我沒關係那10年前沒關係\n\n00:48.883 --> 01:08.522\n臺東縣、關山鎮、東七縣要拓寬成為臺九縣的外環道公路總局有在做這樣的規劃但是國防部是希望能夠新建戰備跑道\n\n01:11.125 --> 01:33.990\n所以這個臺東關山鎮的鄉親就不同意這個戰備跑道蓋在這個要跟這個關山的這個東七線並在一起因為這裡面會在拓寬很多就會增加很多的這個農地的一個農田會被稻田\n\n01:35.170 --> 01:55.703\n會被這個成為一個道路所以他們反對那這個台東的鄉親現場來講就希望能夠再往東移以這個合體共構合體共構在這個上次啊\n\n01:56.636 --> 02:16.607\n花東快速公路可行性評估的時候交通部、公路總局有去關山做可行性評估的說明會民眾也建議因為這個花東快速公路的目前的路線就是在\n\n02:42.648 --> 02:44.669\n我想花東快原來就有選定一個路啦\n\n03:09.406 --> 03:36.815\n那現在台九外環縣如果要跟他整合看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理這個我想工總我們再一起好演繹因為畢竟是人民的意見但是戰備道有他的規範他大概不能在高架橋的地方所以這個我們要看軍方的那個地方那一段不一定要高架那我們就看選縣跟這一條格不可以整合接下來最後一個議題\n\n03:38.523 --> 03:50.668\n蘇花安的環評卡關這個部分如果我們去對照蘇花改蘇花改的時候你那時候還在嗎是環評是我們做的所以這個\n\n03:54.199 --> 04:22.375\n蘇花改97年11月10號行政院同意可行性的研究99年兩年就完成的環評當初而如果舊蘇花改跟現在的蘇花改已經完成了那現在蘇花安在進行事實上舊蘇花改跟蘇花安蘇花改的難度更高所以這個部分以現在的來看\n\n04:23.621 --> 04:28.636\n蘇巴安行政院在108年合併可行性研究\n\n04:30.417 --> 04:35.279\n委員會更換對要會換所以這部分公務總局啊交通部你們在這說明的時候要把它說清楚就是說說話改的\n\n04:56.647 --> 05:23.892\n當時的那個難度影響的更高這個蘇花安是比較要把它說明要讓他先知道因為環評的人不一樣啊所以這會覺得很奇怪的一個狀況所以這個部分我想這個我們公眾應該要公路局應該要充分來說明您提的沒有錯當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理\n\n05:24.952 --> 05:46.575\n所以理論上舒嬅安應該是相對環境影響上少但是環評委員提的意見我想我請公務局詳細來說明尤其是有的意見是說因為你要做高價嘛做高價的時候會不會影響什麼什麼馬上拿回公路給他看嘛\n\n05:47.316 --> 06:03.198\n南迴公路現在都高架嘛所以這個部分是一個讓環評人員我們不批評他但是讓他了解能夠支持因為高架環的對地表的生態影響相對是小的對因為我們委員的考量\n\n06:03.618 --> 06:23.773\n因為我們已經有案例了第一個就是速發改的案例這在透過隧道或是其他的第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例就是這個南回公路嘛南回公路這個部分每次經過那邊哇這超棒我每次我都我都稱這個\n\n06:25.566 --> 06:49.093\n那個公路那一段我都說那個是臺東的高速公路我想我們要了解一下環評委員的考量是什麼公路局針對他的疑慮要充分的說明讓他了解讓他了解我不責怪這些環評委員但是因為他第一次接觸\n\n06:49.693 --> 06:50.194\n謝謝政委員發言完畢\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.314,"end":41.903,"text":"主席委員有請這個次長請林國賢次長次長好早因為過去你擔任過路政司司長是是這個今天就問這個公路的部分10年前我沒關係那10年前沒關係"},{"start":48.883,"end":68.522,"text":"臺東縣、關山鎮、東七縣要拓寬成為臺九縣的外環道公路總局有在做這樣的規劃但是國防部是希望能夠新建戰備跑道"},{"start":71.125,"end":93.99,"text":"所以這個臺東關山鎮的鄉親就不同意這個戰備跑道蓋在這個要跟這個關山的這個東七線並在一起因為這裡面會在拓寬很多就會增加很多的這個農地的一個農田會被稻田"},{"start":95.17,"end":115.703,"text":"會被這個成為一個道路所以他們反對那這個台東的鄉親現場來講就希望能夠再往東移以這個合體共構合體共構在這個上次啊"},{"start":116.636,"end":136.607,"text":"花東快速公路可行性評估的時候交通部、公路總局有去關山做可行性評估的說明會民眾也建議因為這個花東快速公路的目前的路線就是在"},{"start":137.688,"end":161.903,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":162.648,"end":164.669,"text":"我想花東快原來就有選定一個路啦"},{"start":189.406,"end":216.815,"text":"那現在台九外環縣如果要跟他整合看看頭尾有沒有辦法一起處理這個我想工總我們再一起好演繹因為畢竟是人民的意見但是戰備道有他的規範他大概不能在高架橋的地方所以這個我們要看軍方的那個地方那一段不一定要高架那我們就看選縣跟這一條格不可以整合接下來最後一個議題"},{"start":218.523,"end":230.668,"text":"蘇花安的環評卡關這個部分如果我們去對照蘇花改蘇花改的時候你那時候還在嗎是環評是我們做的所以這個"},{"start":234.199,"end":262.375,"text":"蘇花改97年11月10號行政院同意可行性的研究99年兩年就完成的環評當初而如果舊蘇花改跟現在的蘇花改已經完成了那現在蘇花安在進行事實上舊蘇花改跟蘇花安蘇花改的難度更高所以這個部分以現在的來看"},{"start":263.621,"end":268.636,"text":"蘇巴安行政院在108年合併可行性研究"},{"start":270.417,"end":275.279,"text":"委員會更換對要會換所以這部分公務總局啊交通部你們在這說明的時候要把它說清楚就是說說話改的"},{"start":296.647,"end":323.892,"text":"當時的那個難度影響的更高這個蘇花安是比較要把它說明要讓他先知道因為環評的人不一樣啊所以這會覺得很奇怪的一個狀況所以這個部分我想這個我們公眾應該要公路局應該要充分來說明您提的沒有錯當時蘇花高速公路跟蘇花改蘇花改已經挑最危險的路段去處理"},{"start":324.952,"end":346.575,"text":"所以理論上舒嬅安應該是相對環境影響上少但是環評委員提的意見我想我請公務局詳細來說明尤其是有的意見是說因為你要做高價嘛做高價的時候會不會影響什麼什麼馬上拿回公路給他看嘛"},{"start":347.316,"end":363.198,"text":"南迴公路現在都高架嘛所以這個部分是一個讓環評人員我們不批評他但是讓他了解能夠支持因為高架環的對地表的生態影響相對是小的對因為我們委員的考量"},{"start":363.618,"end":383.773,"text":"因為我們已經有案例了第一個就是速發改的案例這在透過隧道或是其他的第二個高架的部分也有很好的案例就是這個南回公路嘛南回公路這個部分每次經過那邊哇這超棒我每次我都我都稱這個"},{"start":385.566,"end":409.093,"text":"那個公路那一段我都說那個是臺東的高速公路我想我們要了解一下環評委員的考量是什麼公路局針對他的疑慮要充分的說明讓他了解讓他了解我不責怪這些環評委員但是因為他第一次接觸"},{"start":409.693,"end":410.194,"text":"謝謝政委員發言完畢"}]}}}}