{"id":150018,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150018","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a5094e3823395fa0487ed802f1bf30134f8ba9b0039caa7a627ee4e6613931c165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"12:29:27 - 12:34:56","影片長度":"00:05:29","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部、司法院、法務部及內政部列席就「校園暴力事件之處置、少年犯回歸校園之輔導機制及前科紀錄是否塗銷」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":329,"end_time":"2024-03-18T12:34:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T12:29:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":931,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（12時29分）有請教育部長和法務部矯正署署長。"],["主席：好，請部長還有周署長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長好。對於新北這件案子，我想，教育部應該有很多要檢討，先來談轉銜機制。如果從高結構的轉到非結構，要進到學校體制裡，的確有很多問題要面對。整個銜接準備不僅要有連續性，最主要的還是再犯率要下降，可是孩子回到社區裡，如果家庭是失功能的，事實上有點困難。我看現行的轉銜機制，部會間真的都是各做各的。如果要從過去的高結構走向非結構的話，有沒有更多機制把孩子接住？看起來矯正做矯正的，教育部做教育部的，勞動做勞動的，衛福部做衛福部的。今天滿可惜的，教文委員會安排這個議程，我覺得還有一個缺角，就是衛福部，因為要在社區裡把孩子接住的話，的確還是要有社工機制在。","對於整個轉銜，以目前我看到的來說，幾乎就是按照兒少權法第七十一條。我覺得這就要問法務部，因為轉銜只有資料轉銜，事實上幾乎沒有所謂的關係轉銜。這樣的話，第一個，在矯正學校所提供的教育處遇不見得符合孩子的需求，甚至對於他未來回到學校、回歸社區的能力跟意願，有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能？在教育這一塊看起來，事實上是沒有。","甚至在關係轉銜這一塊，前年兒權公約審查時，主席Doek就提到，對於矯治體系裡的孩子，如果要父母銜接上的話，基本上應該要讓父母能去看他。可是有父母住在臺北，跑到桃園去，卻只讓他們面會30分鐘，所以他們問我們，讓家長可以跟少年接觸的可能性到底是什麼？有沒有就近性、便利性？甚至在時間上，我們是30分鐘，韓國還有宿舍，讓他們可以跟孩子建立比較好的關係。為什麼要建立？如果沒有做關係轉銜，一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北這種案子，也就是到了社區，社工比藥頭跟幫派還難搶到小孩。所以如果不做好社區轉銜，一定會是孩子進到家裡失功能、學校又是一般孩子的狀態，這個少年從高結構走到非結構的時候，要怎麼在學校適應？我希望不是聚焦在教育轉銜，事實上也不要只有資料轉銜，應該做到關係轉銜，所以我說今天很可惜的是衛福部沒有在這邊。我為什麼也在這點名部長跟署長？是希望能談這些東西，而且還是會跟你們有關係的。","如果要轉銜，我們還能做什麼？要把洞補起來，不要再讓一個孩子喪命，第一點是司法不退縮。今天廳長也來了，我也希望未來少年調保官應該更積極地協助轉銜，不知道廳長認為可以嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：沒有問題。"],["林委員月琴：沒有問題喔？希望你們能夠落實相關規定，並積極提供少年必要協助，再麻煩謝廳長。"],["謝廳長靜慧：我們努力來做。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝。還有學輔要積極，教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來？已經擱置滿長一段時間了。而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制、非正式機構，在各縣市運作不太相同的話，基本上幫不上學校的忙，沒辦法把孩子接住。","另外，我覺得這個也已經是社安網的一部分，就是家庭教育中心，本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去，是不是要讓這些社工更有功能，協助家庭改善？否則孩子回到社區，家裡又失功能的話，根本沒辦法做好事情。部長可不可以要求家庭教育中心主動介入這點加以落實？因為法律裡本來就有規定，可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心的功能。過去我在民間、在六都的兒少委員會的時候，每次提案都提問社工的情況，但有的社工到現在都還沒到位，所以部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位？因為轉銜制度的改善方式要從家裡、社區跟轉銜團隊組合。對於我提出的這幾項，麻煩教育部跟法務部達到，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員。不過衛福部保護服務司副司長是在現場的，你們可以私下就教。","接下來羅智強委員，羅智強委員，羅智強委員。","何欣純委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","范雲","林倩綺","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 315.663, \"end\": 315.683, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,638 --> 00:00:10,845\n有請教育部部長及法務部教政署署長\n\n2\n00:00:22,988 --> 00:00:42,129\n我想新北這個案子我覺得教育部應該有很多要去檢討可是先來談就是轉型機制因為從高結構的一個轉到非結構那的確如果你要進到學校體制裡邊的確有很多問題要面對因為整個銜接準備不僅要有連續訓\n\n3\n00:00:43,250 --> 00:01:07,302\n最主要下降我們的再犯率可是孩子進入到回到社區裡邊事實上是家庭如果是失功能的話事實上有一點困難可是我看現行的整個轉型機制大部會間真的就是在各做各的如果事實上是過去高結構要走到非結構的話有沒有更多的機制把孩子接住可是看起來\n\n4\n00:01:08,483 --> 00:01:26,832\n教政做教政的教育部做教育部的勞動做勞動的衛福部做衛福部今天蠻可惜的教文委會安排這個我覺得還有一個缺角就是我們的衛福部因為要在社區裡面把孩子接住的話的確還是要有社工的一個機制在\n\n5\n00:01:29,727 --> 00:01:36,178\n整個的轉嫌目前我看到的幾乎就是按照我們兒童權法裡邊71條我覺得這個就要問法務部這邊因為轉嫌只有資料轉嫌\n\n6\n00:01:43,803 --> 00:02:11,088\n那幾乎事實上是沒有所謂的關係轉型那這樣在矯正學校所提供的一些教育處理第一個也不見得是符合孩子的需求他沒有去提供甚至他未來回到學校裡邊他回歸社區的能力跟意願有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能在教育這一塊看起來事實上是沒有\n\n7\n00:02:12,288 --> 00:02:12,528\n林月琴議員\n\n8\n00:02:28,696 --> 00:02:57,359\n應該是要讓他能夠去看他可是如果我今天住台北跑到桃園去只讓他面會30分鐘所以他問我們說到底你可以讓家長跟他接觸的可能性是什麼有沒有就近性就便利性甚至時間我們30分鐘韓國還有合宿的那個宿舍那讓他們可以跟孩子有比較建立比較好關係為什麼要建立如果沒有做關係轉線一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北的這個案子\n\n9\n00:02:57,619 --> 00:02:57,939\n林月琴議員\n\n10\n00:03:10,424 --> 00:03:10,844\n今天點名部長和署長\n\n11\n00:03:36,340 --> 00:03:36,460\n施法不退縮．\n\n12\n00:04:01,124 --> 00:04:08,995\n沒有問題希望能夠落實這個相關規定然後積極提供我們少年必要的協助再麻煩我們的謝廷長\n\n13\n00:04:12,895 --> 00:04:36,490\n謝謝還有一個學輔邀集席那就是我們的教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來已經擱置了滿一段時間而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制非正式機構的話在各縣市運作不太相同的話基本上幫不上學校的忙沒辦法把孩子去接住另外一個我覺得\n\n14\n00:04:37,730 --> 00:04:52,444\n這個已經也是社安網的一部分家庭教育中心本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去是不是要讓這社工更有功能來協助家庭改善否則孩子回到社區家裡又失功能的話根本沒有辦法做好事情所以也請\n\n15\n00:04:53,345 --> 00:05:15,203\n部長這邊對於家庭教育中心可不可以針對應該要主動介入這個能夠落實因為法裡邊本來就有規定可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心功能過去我在民間在六都單獨兒少委員會的時候每次在提案都提說那你們社工有的社工到現在還沒到位所以請部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位\n\n16\n00:05:15,583 --> 00:05:15,683\n好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5638\t10845\t有請教育部部長及法務部教政署署長\n22988\t42129\t我想新北這個案子我覺得教育部應該有很多要去檢討可是先來談就是轉型機制因為從高結構的一個轉到非結構那的確如果你要進到學校體制裡邊的確有很多問題要面對因為整個銜接準備不僅要有連續訓\n43250\t67302\t最主要下降我們的再犯率可是孩子進入到回到社區裡邊事實上是家庭如果是失功能的話事實上有一點困難可是我看現行的整個轉型機制大部會間真的就是在各做各的如果事實上是過去高結構要走到非結構的話有沒有更多的機制把孩子接住可是看起來\n68483\t86832\t教政做教政的教育部做教育部的勞動做勞動的衛福部做衛福部今天蠻可惜的教文委會安排這個我覺得還有一個缺角就是我們的衛福部因為要在社區裡面把孩子接住的話的確還是要有社工的一個機制在\n89727\t96178\t整個的轉嫌目前我看到的幾乎就是按照我們兒童權法裡邊71條我覺得這個就要問法務部這邊因為轉嫌只有資料轉嫌\n103803\t131088\t那幾乎事實上是沒有所謂的關係轉型那這樣在矯正學校所提供的一些教育處理第一個也不見得是符合孩子的需求他沒有去提供甚至他未來回到學校裡邊他回歸社區的能力跟意願有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能在教育這一塊看起來事實上是沒有\n132288\t132528\t林月琴議員\n148696\t177359\t應該是要讓他能夠去看他可是如果我今天住台北跑到桃園去只讓他面會30分鐘所以他問我們說到底你可以讓家長跟他接觸的可能性是什麼有沒有就近性就便利性甚至時間我們30分鐘韓國還有合宿的那個宿舍那讓他們可以跟孩子有比較建立比較好關係為什麼要建立如果沒有做關係轉線一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北的這個案子\n177619\t177939\t林月琴議員\n190424\t190844\t今天點名部長和署長\n216340\t216460\t施法不退縮．\n241124\t248995\t沒有問題希望能夠落實這個相關規定然後積極提供我們少年必要的協助再麻煩我們的謝廷長\n252895\t276490\t謝謝還有一個學輔邀集席那就是我們的教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來已經擱置了滿一段時間而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制非正式機構的話在各縣市運作不太相同的話基本上幫不上學校的忙沒辦法把孩子去接住另外一個我覺得\n277730\t292444\t這個已經也是社安網的一部分家庭教育中心本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去是不是要讓這社工更有功能來協助家庭改善否則孩子回到社區家裡又失功能的話根本沒有辦法做好事情所以也請\n293345\t315203\t部長這邊對於家庭教育中心可不可以針對應該要主動介入這個能夠落實因為法裡邊本來就有規定可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心功能過去我在民間在六都單獨兒少委員會的時候每次在提案都提說那你們社工有的社工到現在還沒到位所以請部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位\n315583\t315683\t好 謝謝委員 謝謝\n","txt":"有請教育部部長及法務部教政署署長\n我想新北這個案子我覺得教育部應該有很多要去檢討可是先來談就是轉型機制因為從高結構的一個轉到非結構那的確如果你要進到學校體制裡邊的確有很多問題要面對因為整個銜接準備不僅要有連續訓\n最主要下降我們的再犯率可是孩子進入到回到社區裡邊事實上是家庭如果是失功能的話事實上有一點困難可是我看現行的整個轉型機制大部會間真的就是在各做各的如果事實上是過去高結構要走到非結構的話有沒有更多的機制把孩子接住可是看起來\n教政做教政的教育部做教育部的勞動做勞動的衛福部做衛福部今天蠻可惜的教文委會安排這個我覺得還有一個缺角就是我們的衛福部因為要在社區裡面把孩子接住的話的確還是要有社工的一個機制在\n整個的轉嫌目前我看到的幾乎就是按照我們兒童權法裡邊71條我覺得這個就要問法務部這邊因為轉嫌只有資料轉嫌\n那幾乎事實上是沒有所謂的關係轉型那這樣在矯正學校所提供的一些教育處理第一個也不見得是符合孩子的需求他沒有去提供甚至他未來回到學校裡邊他回歸社區的能力跟意願有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能在教育這一塊看起來事實上是沒有\n林月琴議員\n應該是要讓他能夠去看他可是如果我今天住台北跑到桃園去只讓他面會30分鐘所以他問我們說到底你可以讓家長跟他接觸的可能性是什麼有沒有就近性就便利性甚至時間我們30分鐘韓國還有合宿的那個宿舍那讓他們可以跟孩子有比較建立比較好關係為什麼要建立如果沒有做關係轉線一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北的這個案子\n林月琴議員\n今天點名部長和署長\n施法不退縮．\n沒有問題希望能夠落實這個相關規定然後積極提供我們少年必要的協助再麻煩我們的謝廷長\n謝謝還有一個學輔邀集席那就是我們的教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來已經擱置了滿一段時間而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制非正式機構的話在各縣市運作不太相同的話基本上幫不上學校的忙沒辦法把孩子去接住另外一個我覺得\n這個已經也是社安網的一部分家庭教育中心本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去是不是要讓這社工更有功能來協助家庭改善否則孩子回到社區家裡又失功能的話根本沒有辦法做好事情所以也請\n部長這邊對於家庭教育中心可不可以針對應該要主動介入這個能夠落實因為法裡邊本來就有規定可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心功能過去我在民間在六都單獨兒少委員會的時候每次在提案都提說那你們社工有的社工到現在還沒到位所以請部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位\n好 謝謝委員 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.638 --> 00:10.845\n有請教育部部長及法務部教政署署長\n\n00:22.988 --> 00:42.129\n我想新北這個案子我覺得教育部應該有很多要去檢討可是先來談就是轉型機制因為從高結構的一個轉到非結構那的確如果你要進到學校體制裡邊的確有很多問題要面對因為整個銜接準備不僅要有連續訓\n\n00:43.250 --> 01:07.302\n最主要下降我們的再犯率可是孩子進入到回到社區裡邊事實上是家庭如果是失功能的話事實上有一點困難可是我看現行的整個轉型機制大部會間真的就是在各做各的如果事實上是過去高結構要走到非結構的話有沒有更多的機制把孩子接住可是看起來\n\n01:08.483 --> 01:26.832\n教政做教政的教育部做教育部的勞動做勞動的衛福部做衛福部今天蠻可惜的教文委會安排這個我覺得還有一個缺角就是我們的衛福部因為要在社區裡面把孩子接住的話的確還是要有社工的一個機制在\n\n01:29.727 --> 01:36.178\n整個的轉嫌目前我看到的幾乎就是按照我們兒童權法裡邊71條我覺得這個就要問法務部這邊因為轉嫌只有資料轉嫌\n\n01:43.803 --> 02:11.088\n那幾乎事實上是沒有所謂的關係轉型那這樣在矯正學校所提供的一些教育處理第一個也不見得是符合孩子的需求他沒有去提供甚至他未來回到學校裡邊他回歸社區的能力跟意願有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能在教育這一塊看起來事實上是沒有\n\n02:12.288 --> 02:12.528\n林月琴議員\n\n02:28.696 --> 02:57.359\n應該是要讓他能夠去看他可是如果我今天住台北跑到桃園去只讓他面會30分鐘所以他問我們說到底你可以讓家長跟他接觸的可能性是什麼有沒有就近性就便利性甚至時間我們30分鐘韓國還有合宿的那個宿舍那讓他們可以跟孩子有比較建立比較好關係為什麼要建立如果沒有做關係轉線一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北的這個案子\n\n02:57.619 --> 02:57.939\n林月琴議員\n\n03:10.424 --> 03:10.844\n今天點名部長和署長\n\n03:36.340 --> 03:36.460\n施法不退縮．\n\n04:01.124 --> 04:08.995\n沒有問題希望能夠落實這個相關規定然後積極提供我們少年必要的協助再麻煩我們的謝廷長\n\n04:12.895 --> 04:36.490\n謝謝還有一個學輔邀集席那就是我們的教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來已經擱置了滿一段時間而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制非正式機構的話在各縣市運作不太相同的話基本上幫不上學校的忙沒辦法把孩子去接住另外一個我覺得\n\n04:37.730 --> 04:52.444\n這個已經也是社安網的一部分家庭教育中心本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去是不是要讓這社工更有功能來協助家庭改善否則孩子回到社區家裡又失功能的話根本沒有辦法做好事情所以也請\n\n04:53.345 --> 05:15.203\n部長這邊對於家庭教育中心可不可以針對應該要主動介入這個能夠落實因為法裡邊本來就有規定可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心功能過去我在民間在六都單獨兒少委員會的時候每次在提案都提說那你們社工有的社工到現在還沒到位所以請部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位\n\n05:15.583 --> 05:15.683\n好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.638,"end":10.845,"text":"有請教育部部長及法務部教政署署長"},{"start":22.988,"end":42.129,"text":"我想新北這個案子我覺得教育部應該有很多要去檢討可是先來談就是轉型機制因為從高結構的一個轉到非結構那的確如果你要進到學校體制裡邊的確有很多問題要面對因為整個銜接準備不僅要有連續訓"},{"start":43.25,"end":67.302,"text":"最主要下降我們的再犯率可是孩子進入到回到社區裡邊事實上是家庭如果是失功能的話事實上有一點困難可是我看現行的整個轉型機制大部會間真的就是在各做各的如果事實上是過去高結構要走到非結構的話有沒有更多的機制把孩子接住可是看起來"},{"start":68.483,"end":86.832,"text":"教政做教政的教育部做教育部的勞動做勞動的衛福部做衛福部今天蠻可惜的教文委會安排這個我覺得還有一個缺角就是我們的衛福部因為要在社區裡面把孩子接住的話的確還是要有社工的一個機制在"},{"start":89.727,"end":96.178,"text":"整個的轉嫌目前我看到的幾乎就是按照我們兒童權法裡邊71條我覺得這個就要問法務部這邊因為轉嫌只有資料轉嫌"},{"start":103.803,"end":131.088,"text":"那幾乎事實上是沒有所謂的關係轉型那這樣在矯正學校所提供的一些教育處理第一個也不見得是符合孩子的需求他沒有去提供甚至他未來回到學校裡邊他回歸社區的能力跟意願有沒有提供比較適合的支持功能在教育這一塊看起來事實上是沒有"},{"start":132.288,"end":132.528,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":148.696,"end":177.359,"text":"應該是要讓他能夠去看他可是如果我今天住台北跑到桃園去只讓他面會30分鐘所以他問我們說到底你可以讓家長跟他接觸的可能性是什麼有沒有就近性就便利性甚至時間我們30分鐘韓國還有合宿的那個宿舍那讓他們可以跟孩子有比較建立比較好關係為什麼要建立如果沒有做關係轉線一旦孩子回到社區就會發生新北的這個案子"},{"start":177.619,"end":177.939,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":190.424,"end":190.844,"text":"今天點名部長和署長"},{"start":216.34,"end":216.46,"text":"施法不退縮．"},{"start":241.124,"end":248.995,"text":"沒有問題希望能夠落實這個相關規定然後積極提供我們少年必要的協助再麻煩我們的謝廷長"},{"start":252.895,"end":276.49,"text":"謝謝還有一個學輔邀集席那就是我們的教育部可不可以趕快把學輔法送出來已經擱置了滿一段時間而且學生輔導諮商中心如果採任務編制非正式機構的話在各縣市運作不太相同的話基本上幫不上學校的忙沒辦法把孩子去接住另外一個我覺得"},{"start":277.73,"end":292.444,"text":"這個已經也是社安網的一部分家庭教育中心本來我們期待的功能已經補社工進去是不是要讓這社工更有功能來協助家庭改善否則孩子回到社區家裡又失功能的話根本沒有辦法做好事情所以也請"},{"start":293.345,"end":315.203,"text":"部長這邊對於家庭教育中心可不可以針對應該要主動介入這個能夠落實因為法裡邊本來就有規定可是我現在看不到家庭教育中心功能過去我在民間在六都單獨兒少委員會的時候每次在提案都提說那你們社工有的社工到現在還沒到位所以請部長可不可以督促各縣市趕快到位"},{"start":315.583,"end":315.683,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}}}}