{"id":150038,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150038","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a6801b1474fd2dec425cd79889bed64eaf8ba9b0039caa7a663964f54ed6af20b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"14:14:43 - 14:32:47","影片長度":"00:18:04","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部、內政部警政署就「社會安全網推動情形及策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-6"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":1084,"end_time":"2024-03-18T14:32:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T14:14:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1697,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（14時14分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。部長，在檢討政府的責任之前，我看到一個更大的危機，因為我覺得社安網正在瓦解中，所以想要請教部長，您認同嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：不太認同。"],["廖委員偉翔：不太認同，好，為什麼我要這樣講？我想跟您說的是，社安網不只是政府、社福單位或是案家，更重要的還有全國1萬8,600多名社工專業跟熱忱，這是111年的資料，才得以讓我們全國的社安網撐起來，但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰，這是我的憂慮，也是我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因。其實這次事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷，請教部長，這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理？"],["薛部長瑞元：兩個部分，第一個部分，對於涉案的社工本身來講，他到底是否有刑事責任，這個是一件事情，但是在處理的過程當中給他上銬，這的確是非常的不妥。第二個，其他的社工人員，我們是非常支持，其他部分我們不方便評論。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝部長。我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題，社工界長期以來就是有三高三缺一低的問題，也就是高風險、高案量、高壓力，缺督導、缺合作、缺資源，以及偏低的薪資條件。更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導有薪資回捐的陋習，並且也有研究指出，社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有5成，就業3年後近3成離開社工圈，留任者又有3成可能要離開社工專業。所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案，因為畢竟這是一個社會事件，那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上的這個系統有沒有問題。看起來社工留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：可以這麼說。"],["廖委員偉翔：可以這麼說，所以我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振社工的士氣，這一環是社安網裡面非常重要的一環。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想這有兩點可以努力的方向，跟部長分享，也請教部長有沒有其他的想法。我想有兩點努力的方向，分別是提高薪資，以及提升專業認同，當然求才管道要多元求才當然是不在話下，但我覺得主要是這兩點。想要請教部長，所謂社工薪點的折合率有沒有機會再往上調高一些？我知道去年大概9月的時候有調高過一次。"],["薛部長瑞元：剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確，第一個是薪資能不能再繼續往上調，這也是我們努力的方向，不過這還是要看整體國家財政的狀況如何。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝，那就請部長在這部分也多多著墨。"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。另外針對提高形象這個部分，我覺得這幾年來對於社工形象的提升應該已經有一個程度了，因為在稍早幾年，大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚，現在大家都瞭解社工就是社工，而且社工真的是肩負著非常重大的責任。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝部長，我懂你的意思，但是我想再加強這一塊，而且你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方？因為我們知道，一旦社工人員認同他的社工專業生涯，他投入工作可以獲得成就感，就比較不會產生職業怠惰。所以我提這個問題，我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展，我是想問在發生這個事件之後，還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好、更多的地方呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然永遠都有努力的空間，比方說提到薪資的部分，這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的財政狀況去做提升。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝部長，我聽起來是沒有針對專業認同的部分，你們可能要回去再思考，看在下一次開會或檢討會議時有沒有比較具體可行的執行行動方案，不然現在聽起來是比較模糊，我們都知道要往這個方向，可是可能要透過你們的專業，還有你們跨部會整合，才能找出真正可以動作的執行方案。"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：我也有去了解一下，這幾年有一些社工，比如私的社工不太願意加入社安網，原因是他們說社安網的年資無法採認，所以導致可能在經驗傳承上，他過去所累積經驗現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認，請問部長有這個事情嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該不會有這個事情，不過如果有這方面問題的話，我是希望能直接跟衛福部來對接，讓我們來瞭解真正的問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，也請衛福部稍微再去瞭解一下有沒有這樣的狀況，不然有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承，的確會讓新的社工折損率也很高，也不利於我們社會安全網的布建。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來，部長，你們昨天才提供虐童案的時序表，雖然晚到，但是總比不到來得好，本席想要請教，首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候，許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況，在會議上總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行，2019年時，社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行，希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組，視安置兒少的不同需求，提供安置單位所需的資源，也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組，在各地的兒少安置中扮演一個中介的角色，然後再邀請不同的專家，例如早療、心理諮商、法務等等擔任委員，讓兒少的評估可以更全面的關照。部長，過去出養是由衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估，但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估，想請問部長，是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清，所以才要做這樣修改？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，這是這一次我們發現了這個問題，我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改，因為媒合機構如果是統包一條龍的話，的確容易發生問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，部長，未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及TDM，也就是團體決策會議。"],["薛部長瑞元：要。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。","另外，涉及兒少法的修法，請問何時能夠提出修法的版本？"],["薛部長瑞元：其實剛剛委員提到這一點是不必等到兒權法的修正，至於委員問到兒權法的立法進度，現在大概還在衛福部裡面，因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時進行，一個是兒權法，一個是托育服務法，就是托育的專法，這兩個會同時進行。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，沒問題，請部長再繼續努力。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，針對虐童致死案件，上週三也有很多縣市的各個社工團體發出聲明，就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部，沒有依照社政單位兒少保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定，在重大兒虐案件發生30天內要完成調查報告。請教部長，是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會研商、不做檢討報告？當初我有看到新聞，您說是因為小孩已經死了，所以就可以不用開會嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，我沒有這樣講，跟委員報告，其實處理事件的流程是地方要做通報，這是第一個；第二個，地方在10天之內要去開檢討會議，檢討會議之後，兩週之內要把檢討報告提給衛福部，所以並不是說……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以您的意思是30天沒有完成報告，是因為地方政府沒有開會嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有規定中央一定要去開檢討會議，而是地方一定要開，地方把檢討報告送過來之後，我們如果發現這中間可能有問題，我們才去開會，然後請地方來做說明。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以這個程序的規定，不包含衛福部需要在30天內完成這個調查報告？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，沒有，應該沒有這個。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為您這樣的說法，很像是司法調查沒有問題，但是我們的主責單位沒有職責要去瞭解在整個流程、過程當中，有沒有一些行政上需要改進的地方，但這才是重點！因為依規定，我是覺得該檢討就要檢討，但是沒有檢討，現在亡羊補牢，後面開了專家會議，當然其中還有一項，你們提到會要求增加訪視率，問題是現在各個縣市政府也都有缺社工的情況，請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標，有沒有任何的配套措施？"],["薛部長瑞元：這當然會跟地方去做討論，不過我跟委員報告，我們今天所提的增加訪視率是有對象的，就是哪一類的個案就必須增加訪視率，原因是這樣子的，像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的行為，這種惡意若他要掩飾的話，相對是容易的，因為我們的社工可能都會相信人是善良的，但是如果有多重訪視的話，可能他就跑不掉。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝部長。因為你們的檢討報告裡面也只是簡短的提到這句話，所以我想要表達的事情是，你們要再更細的、真正的訂出作業準則，不然你也會累死地方，因為人力根本不夠，甚至你可能也要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，當然就是要有配套。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以我才問這個問題，就是你們有沒有擬一些配套，這也是為什麼我們覺得今天這個檢討報告不夠完善，要予以退回的原因，因為這個東西就是太模糊了，所以我只是想要提醒部長，就這個部分，的確，我們要想辦法增加社工的量能或是他的待遇，當然也需要增加他的訪視率，也應該要更重質而不完全是重量，因為若是完全重量的話，你的人力不足，量能也不足，所以希望我們衛福部也可以針對這個部分，好好的把配套措施都準備好，下次再提交報告給大家。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：最後，部長，我們最近整理了社家署111年到113年的公務預算，發現社會福利基金預算中，雖然兒少相關的預算也不少，但是針對有狀況、受虐或是需要出養的兒童，相關經費好像不太夠也並不多，例如你們委辦計畫中的兒童及少年收養資訊中心業務計畫，每年大概是127萬左右，委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立資訊，然後提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務，當然還有包含其他的家外安置、短期治療等等，我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕呢？陳建仁院長在3月14號的時候有說要成立食安檢驗基金、預算，專款專用，一樣的，我在思考的事情是，我今天想要要求衛福部儘速啟動研議，把兒少保護業務獨立出來，也成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金，你覺得能否做到？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們會跟行政院那邊來做請示，因為依照財政紀律法，如果要成立基金，就有一定的要求。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，部長，這部分我會提案，今天也已經提案了，希望你們可以好好的跨黨派研議，這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的方式來處理，因為我覺得第一個，預算足夠之外，這樣子也可以更加透明、更加讓大家知道這個費用是用在哪裡。","再來，要跟部長討論社會安全網，去年底發生國中割頸案的事情，後來你們當然有一個結論，就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息……"],["薛部長瑞元：這是與司法院有關。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，沒錯，這個我知道，這個跟司法院有關，我們本來覺得這是一個好消息，但它最終是說：增補少年調查保護人力，所以成立北部的少家專業法院是刻不容緩的。可是我覺得很奇怪，為什麼它只重視北部，難道沒有中部、南部嗎？關於這樣的建議，我知道你們是有共同開會了，請問這是有經過衛福部的建議嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個是屬於司法院的業務，我不知道它當時的決定為什麼是北部……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議？"],["李次長麗芬：這個會議是行政院跟司法院一起開會，現在是司法院提出先做北部的兒少家事法院，接下來會再看是否要往中部或是南部設立。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，這個部分我特別提出來，是希望你們也能關注我們中部和南部的需求，因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：也請你們把這個建議帶回給行政院跟司法院。","今天是問好問滿嘛！我就迅速提一下社安網的部分，最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛、原本大家都在討論的這個相關案件，其實我想要補充的是，有關我們青少年的心理困擾，這幾年也是越來越嚴重，所以就2016年到2021年的資料顯示，15歲到30歲精神科相關診斷者從22萬人成長到29萬人，而且成長率也從4.8%成長到7%，所以整體成長率有到47%；WHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手，所以我想要講的事情是，衛福部你們去年有提出年輕族群心理健康支持方案，我覺得很棒，我也支持，但每人有三次的免費心理諮商，可是我們知道它很快就沒了，而且量能不足，所以想要請問，因為現在也正在編列114年的預算，想要請問這個部分有沒有可能，就是明年的次數量能從3次增加到至少6次呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分我們還需要再做進一步的評估，因為預算總還是有限的。"],["廖委員偉翔：但希望部長還是可以好好地評估，因為這個東西已經是社會大家很重視的，也是社會安全網很重要的一塊。","再來，社會安全網很重要的一塊就是社區心理衛生中心，目前共有48處，明年預計要有71處，請問明年是否可以如質完成？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們會盡力，這是一個很明確的方向，我們大家很有信心可以達成。"],["廖委員偉翔：最後一個，就是在學校裡面，現在以大專院校來講，每1,200名的學生僅配1名的專業輔導人員，所以平均每個學生可能都要排隊1個月左右才有可能諮商得到，所以我想要請問，你們是否贊成把這個比例下修？"],["薛部長瑞元：是不是請教育部來回答？"],["主席：請教育部。"],["吳司長林輝：跟委員報告，我們學生輔導法在去年已經進行檢討並提出修正案，大專院校是希望從1,200比1調降為900比1，目前這個修正案條文已經送行政院審查當中，等行政院審查結束之後，應該就會送立法院來做處理。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK，我以上質詢完畢，今天的質詢是希望我們透過一個個案，雖然大家覺得這是一個個案，可是它也可能存在系統性的問題，所以希望不要從這個個案然後變成到處推諉卸責，我們應好好檢討並解決問題，不要讓個案變通案、通案變系統性的危機，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","接下來我們請楊曜委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-6","speakers":["王育敏","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","林月琴","廖偉翔","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","王正旭","李彥秀","徐巧芯","涂權吉","羅廷瑋","陳玉珍","柯建銘","傅崐萁","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","陳瑩","林淑芬","陳培瑜","賴士葆","郭昱晴","范雲","黃國昌","牛煦庭","吳春城","顏寬恒","沈伯洋","林德福","陳冠廷","張雅琳","葉元之","羅智強"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2024-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部、內政部警政署就「社會安全網推動情形及策進作為」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150038","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150038","tool":"pyannote","id":"150038-pyannote"},"job_id":"Of78IwlMGf10ufcc","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 540.253, \"end\": 540.433, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 540.433, \"end\": 540.613, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 540.613, \"end\": 541.114, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 541.114, \"end\": 541.554, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 541.554, \"end\": 542.535, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 542.535, \"end\": 542.715, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 542.715, \"end\": 543.035, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 543.035, \"end\": 543.216, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 543.216, \"end\": 543.456, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 543.456, \"end\": 543.576, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 543.576, \"end\": 543.876, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", 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\"是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 548.36, \"end\": 548.46, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 548.46, \"end\": 548.92, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 548.92, \"end\": 549.04, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 549.04, \"end\": 549.12, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 549.12, \"end\": 549.22, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 549.22, \"end\": 549.34, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 549.34, \"end\": 549.48, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 549.48, \"end\": 549.82, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 549.82, \"end\": 550.18, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 550.18, \"end\": 550.28, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 550.28, \"end\": 550.761, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 550.761, \"end\": 550.901, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 550.901, \"end\": 551.021, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 551.021, \"end\": 551.261, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 551.261, \"end\": 551.421, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 551.421, \"end\": 551.601, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 551.601, \"end\": 551.761, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 551.761, \"end\": 551.861, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 551.861, \"end\": 552.041, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 552.041, \"end\": 552.141, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 552.141, \"end\": 553.661, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 553.661, \"end\": 553.781, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 553.781, \"end\": 553.901, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 553.901, \"end\": 555.362, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 555.362, \"end\": 555.522, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 555.522, \"end\": 555.982, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 555.982, \"end\": 556.562, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 556.562, \"end\": 557.642, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 557.642, \"end\": 559.242, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 559.242, \"end\": 559.442, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 559.442, \"end\": 559.623, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 559.623, \"end\": 559.763, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 559.763, \"end\": 559.923, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 559.923, \"end\": 560.243, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 560.243, \"end\": 560.463, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 560.463, \"end\": 561.663, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 561.663, \"end\": 561.783, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 561.783, \"end\": 561.923, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 561.923, \"end\": 562.123, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 562.123, \"end\": 562.323, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 562.323, \"end\": 562.543, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 562.543, \"end\": 563.003, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 563.003, \"end\": 563.263, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 563.263, \"end\": 563.363, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 563.363, \"end\": 563.823, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 563.823, \"end\": 563.983, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 563.983, \"end\": 564.564, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 564.564, \"end\": 564.844, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 564.844, \"end\": 565.084, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 565.084, \"end\": 565.204, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 565.204, \"end\": 565.404, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 565.404, \"end\": 565.744, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 565.744, \"end\": 565.904, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 565.904, \"end\": 566.084, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 566.084, \"end\": 566.384, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 566.384, \"end\": 566.584, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 566.584, \"end\": 566.724, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 566.724, \"end\": 567.164, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 567.164, \"end\": 567.344, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 567.344, \"end\": 567.464, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 567.464, \"end\": 567.564, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 567.564, \"end\": 567.704, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 567.704, \"end\": 567.804, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 567.804, \"end\": 567.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 567.824, \"end\": 567.844, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 576.824, \"end\": 603.435, \"text\": \"所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 576.824, \"end\": 577.104, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 577.104, \"end\": 577.264, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 577.264, \"end\": 577.384, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 577.384, \"end\": 577.504, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 577.504, \"end\": 577.584, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 577.584, \"end\": 578.224, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 578.224, \"end\": 578.344, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 578.344, \"end\": 578.524, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 578.524, \"end\": 578.644, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 578.644, \"end\": 578.744, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 578.744, \"end\": 578.924, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 578.924, \"end\": 579.245, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 579.245, \"end\": 579.385, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 579.385, \"end\": 579.465, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 579.465, \"end\": 579.685, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 579.685, \"end\": 579.805, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 579.805, \"end\": 579.965, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 579.965, \"end\": 580.085, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 580.085, \"end\": 580.225, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 580.225, \"end\": 580.345, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 580.345, \"end\": 582.286, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 582.286, \"end\": 582.546, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 582.546, \"end\": 582.826, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 582.826, \"end\": 583.086, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 583.086, \"end\": 583.306, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 583.306, \"end\": 583.827, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 583.827, \"end\": 584.087, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 584.087, \"end\": 584.247, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 584.247, \"end\": 584.447, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 584.447, \"end\": 586.868, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 586.868, \"end\": 587.488, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 587.488, \"end\": 587.728, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 587.728, \"end\": 587.928, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 587.928, \"end\": 588.189, \"score\": 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\"我\", \"start\": 592.49, \"end\": 592.911, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 592.911, \"end\": 593.551, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 593.551, \"end\": 594.291, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 594.291, \"end\": 594.811, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 594.811, \"end\": 595.092, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 595.092, \"end\": 595.252, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 595.252, \"end\": 595.372, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 595.372, \"end\": 595.892, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 595.892, \"end\": 596.332, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 596.332, \"end\": 596.552, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 596.552, \"end\": 597.092, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 597.092, \"end\": 597.333, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 597.333, \"end\": 597.573, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 597.573, \"end\": 597.713, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 597.713, \"end\": 597.853, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 597.853, \"end\": 597.953, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 597.953, \"end\": 598.133, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 598.133, \"end\": 599.033, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 599.033, \"end\": 599.253, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 599.253, \"end\": 599.393, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 599.393, \"end\": 599.694, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 599.694, \"end\": 600.234, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 600.234, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 802.507, \"end\": 802.747, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 802.747, \"end\": 802.908, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 802.908, \"end\": 803.088, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 803.088, \"end\": 803.348, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 803.348, \"end\": 803.488, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"獨\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 803.488, \"end\": 803.608, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 803.608, \"end\": 803.788, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 803.788, \"end\": 803.968, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 803.968, \"end\": 804.268, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 804.268, \"end\": 804.469, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 804.469, \"end\": 804.769, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", 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\"start\": 1079.251, \"end\": 1079.712, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1079.712, \"end\": 1079.812, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1079.812, \"end\": 1079.932, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 1079.932, \"end\": 1080.052, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"翔\", \"start\": 1080.052, \"end\": 1080.112, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1080.112, \"end\": 1080.132, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1080.132, \"end\": 1080.152, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,133 --> 00:00:20,994\n主席有請部長好有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:25,034 --> 00:00:39,004\n委員好部長好部長在這個檢討這個政府的責任之前因為我有看到一個更大的危機因為我覺得就是社安網正在瓦解中所以想要請教部長您認同嗎不太認同\n\n3\n00:00:40,905 --> 00:01:09,667\n不太認同,好為什麼我要這樣講我想要跟您說的就是部長社安網不只是政府社福單位或是案家更重要的還有我們全國一萬八千六百多名這是一百一十一年的資料一萬八千六百多名的社工的專業跟熱忱讓我們全國的社安網撐起來但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰這是我的憂慮\n\n4\n00:01:11,008 --> 00:01:23,278\n也是為什麼我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因因為這次的事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷請教部長這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理\n\n5\n00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:45,310\n兩個部分,第一個部分對於這個涉案的這個社工本身來講因為他到底是否是有刑事責任,這個是一件事情但是在處理的過程當中給他參考,這的確是非常的不妥第二個,其他的社工人員,我們是非常支持\n\n6\n00:01:47,152 --> 00:02:14,389\n我們不方便評論好謝謝部長我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題社工界長期以來就是有這個三高、三缺以及一低的問題也就是我們的高風險、我們的高案量、高壓力然後缺督導、缺合作、缺資源以及偏低的薪資條件更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導也有這種薪資回捐的漏息\n\n7\n00:02:15,490 --> 00:02:38,295\n並且也有研究指出社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有五成就業三年後近三成離開我們的社工圈留任者又有三成可能要離開這個社工專業所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案因為畢竟這是一個社會事件那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上這個系統上有沒有問題\n\n8\n00:02:39,435 --> 00:03:07,358\n所以看起來這個社工的留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題是不是可以這麼說啦可以這麼說齁所以部長我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振我們的社工的這個士氣因為這一環是我們社安網裡面非常重要的一環對那我想這有兩點可以努力的方向跟部長分享也請教部長有沒有其他的想法我想有兩點努力的方向分別是當然就是提高我們的薪資\n\n9\n00:03:08,539 --> 00:03:09,660\n剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確\n\n10\n00:03:35,424 --> 00:03:54,925\n那第一個是這一個薪資能不能再繼續往上調這也是我們努力的方向這不過這還是要看這整體國家財政的狀況如何好那請謝謝那就請部長在這部分也多多的琢磨當然那另外一點就是提到他的形象的這部分的話\n\n11\n00:03:55,626 --> 00:04:09,540\n我覺得這幾年來對於社工的形象的提升應該是已經有一個程度了因為在稍早幾年大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚了\n\n12\n00:04:11,059 --> 00:04:32,868\n現在的話大概大家都了解社工就是社工而且社工他真的是肩負著非常重大部長謝謝喔拍著我懂你的意思但是我只是想說再加強這塊你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方因為我們知道這個如果社工人員認同他社工專業生涯後他投入工作可以獲得成就感就比較不會產生職業的怠惰嘛\n\n13\n00:04:33,408 --> 00:04:54,480\n所以我其實這個問題我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展我是想說發生這個事件之後還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好的地方更多的地方呢當然這永遠都有最努力的空間啦比方說剛剛提到薪資的這部分那這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的這個財政狀況去做這個提升啦\n\n14\n00:04:59,488 --> 00:05:20,911\n好謝謝部長我聽起來是沒有對於這件這個專業認同可能要回去再思考在下一次開會或檢討會議有沒有比較具體可行的執行的行動方案要不然現在聽起來是比較模糊我們都知道往這一去可是可能要透過你們的專業還有你們跨部會的整合找出真正可以動作的這個執行方案那我也有去了解一下\n\n15\n00:05:23,035 --> 00:05:42,746\n這幾年都會有去了解一下這幾年有一些社工比如說私的社工他不太願意加入社安網他們有說為什麼因為他們說社安網的年資無法採認所以導致可能在這個經驗傳承上他過去的累積的經驗他現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認請問想要請教部長有這個事情嗎\n\n16\n00:05:47,136 --> 00:06:12,361\n應該不會有這個事情不過如果有這方面的一個問題的話我是希望就是說能夠直接跟衛福部這邊來對接我們瞭解真正問題是是好沒有問題那也請衛福部稍微再去了解一下有沒有這樣的狀況不然這個有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承的話的確會讓這個新的社工折損率也很高也不利於我們社會安全網的部件那再來\n\n17\n00:06:14,410 --> 00:06:34,552\n部長你們昨天才提供這個虐童案的時序表雖然晚到但是總比不到來的好所以本席想要請教這個首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況所以在會議上有總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行\n\n18\n00:06:36,013 --> 00:06:52,632\n那這個2019年的社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組是安置兒少的不同需求\n\n19\n00:06:54,293 --> 00:07:22,858\n協助安置單位所需的支援也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組在各地的兒、少安置中扮演一個中介的角色然後再邀請不同的專家例如早療、身體諮商、法務等等擔任委員讓這個兒、少的評估可以更全面的關照那部長過去出養是由這個衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估嘛\n\n20\n00:07:23,669 --> 00:07:51,687\n那也想要問請問部長是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清所以才要這樣修改沒有這是這一次我們發現的這個問題我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改因為每一個機構去統包一條龍的話的確容易發生問題是那部長未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及這個TBM也就是團體決策會議\n\n21\n00:07:53,496 --> 00:07:57,578\n其實剛剛提到的委員提到這一點的話是不必等到那個兒權法的修正\n\n22\n00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:28,929\n至於委員問到說額群法的立法的一個進度的話那現在大概還在衛福部裡面因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時來進行一個是額群法一個是托育服務法、托育的專法這兩個會同時進行\n\n23\n00:08:32,412 --> 00:08:36,935\n好沒問題請部長再繼續努力好部長那針對這個聶桐案件的致死案件上週三也有很多的縣市各個的社工團體發出聲明就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部\n\n24\n00:08:49,423 --> 00:09:06,939\n沒有依照社政單位而效保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定在重大額內案件發生的30天內要完成這個調查報告請教部長是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會言商不做檢討報告\n\n25\n00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:27,844\n是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部\n\n26\n00:09:36,824 --> 00:10:03,435\n所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個\n\n27\n00:10:05,697 --> 00:10:18,165\n因為您這樣的說法很像是司法調查沒有問題但是我們的主責單位沒有職責去了解整個流程過程當中有沒有一些行政上面的需要改進的地方\n\n28\n00:10:19,195 --> 00:10:42,465\n因為這才是重點因為依規定我是覺得該檢討就要檢討但是沒有檢討現在亡羊補牢後面開了這個專家會議那當然其中還有一項你們提到說要求增加這個訪視率問題是現在各個縣市政府也都是有缺社工的情況請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標有沒有任何的配套措施\n\n29\n00:10:43,206 --> 00:11:02,766\n這當然會跟地方去做討論不過跟委員報告我們今天所提的這個增加紡織率是有對象的就是哪一類的個案就必須要增加紡織率它原因是這樣子像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的這種行為\n\n30\n00:11:04,734 --> 00:11:18,272\n這種惡意他要掩飾的話是相對是容易的因為我們的社工可能都相信說人是善良的但是如果有多重的反噬的話那可能他就跑不掉\n\n31\n00:11:19,610 --> 00:11:35,785\n社會福利部長因為你們的這個檢討報告裡面也是簡短的只提到這句話所以我想要表達的事情是你們要再更細的去去針對去把定出這個作業準則不然你也會累死地方也根本不夠的人力甚至是你可能要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源\n\n32\n00:11:37,026 --> 00:11:53,141\n對當然就是要配套對甚至就是所謂的所以我才問這個問題是說你們有沒有擬寫配套這也是為什麼我們覺得這個今天的檢討報告不夠完善我們要退回的原因因為這個東西就是太模糊了所以我只是想要提醒部長是說這個部分的確\n\n33\n00:11:54,102 --> 00:11:54,282\n委員會主席\n\n34\n00:12:16,752 --> 00:12:36,711\n那再來最後就是在後面還有我想要說部長我們最近整理了三年社家屬的公務預算在這個111年到113年的社會福利基金的預算發現看似兒少相關的預算也不少但是針對這種有狀況受虐或是需要出養的兒童這個經費好像不太夠也並不多\n\n35\n00:12:39,053 --> 00:12:59,392\n例如你們委辦計畫中的這個兒童及少年收養中心資訊業務計畫每年大概是127萬左右委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立這個資訊提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務當然還有其他的包含家外安置、短期治療等等\n\n36\n00:13:00,773 --> 00:13:26,110\n這個我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕那陳建仁院長也有在3月14號的時候說要成立這個食安檢查的負責的這個基金預算專款專用那我想一樣的我在思考事情是不是我今天想要要求衛福部是不是儘速的啟動研議把兒少保護業務的基金業務獨立出來這個也要成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金你覺得能否做到\n\n37\n00:13:27,671 --> 00:13:51,630\n這個我們會跟行政那邊來做請示因為依照財政紀律法的話如果要成立基金的話就有一定的要求是沒關係部長這部分我會提案今天也已經提案了希望說你們可以好好的跨黨派研議這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的處理因為我覺得第一個預算足夠之外這樣子也可以更加透明更加讓大家知道說把這個費用用在哪裡\n\n38\n00:13:52,915 --> 00:14:01,831\n那最後再來就是有反映這個跟部長也討論有關社會安全網中去年底這個發生國中割井案的事情\n\n39\n00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:23,584\n那後來你們當然有一個結論我們看到一開始也覺得有一個結論就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息司法院對沒錯這個我知道這個跟司法院是有關但是我們本來是覺得是一個好消息但是最終我們認為說他說真樸少年調查保護人力不足所以\n\n40\n00:14:24,284 --> 00:14:37,823\n成立北部的校家專業法院這是刻不容緩可是我這裡覺得很奇怪為什麼他只重視北部難道沒有中部、南部嗎那這樣的建議我知道你們是有共同開會的喔那這樣是有透過你們的建議是有經過衛福部的建議嗎\n\n41\n00:14:39,601 --> 00:14:53,960\n我想這個是屬於司法院的業務我不知道他當時的一個決定為什麼是北部所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議這個會議行政院跟司法院有一起開會\n\n42\n00:14:54,941 --> 00:15:16,013\n那現在是司法院先提出先做北部的兒少家庭加司法院那接下來會再看說是否要往中部或是南部設立是那這個部分我特別提出來是希望你們也關注我們中部和南部的需求因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部好不好那也請你們回去把這個建議帶回行政院跟司法院\n\n43\n00:15:16,909 --> 00:15:35,777\n那再來我也想要今天是問好問滿嘛對不對我迅速最後最後好不好這個社安網的部分最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛原本大家都在討論這個相關的案件其實我想要補充的事情就是最近有關我們青少年心理困擾這幾年也是越來越嚴重\n\n44\n00:15:36,937 --> 00:15:38,858\nWHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手\n\n45\n00:15:59,403 --> 00:16:26,489\n所以我想要講的事情是我想要請衛福部喔你們去年有提出這個年輕族群心理健康支持方案我覺得很棒那我也支持可是每人有三次的這個免費心理諮商可是我們知道他很快就沒了而且量能不足喔所以想要請問因為現在也正在編列這個114年的預算想要請問這個部分有沒有可能把明年的這個次數量能增加到從三次增加到至少六次呢\n\n46\n00:16:27,895 --> 00:16:51,256\n這我們還需要再進一步評估因為總是預算還是有限的但是希望部長可以好好評估因為這個東西已經是社會大家的很重要也是社會安全網很重要的一塊那再來社會安全網很重要的一塊就是這個社區心理衛生中心目前是有48處到明年預計要71處請問明年是否會可以如值完成\n\n47\n00:16:51,836 --> 00:17:19,271\n我們會盡力啦這是一個很明確的一個方向我們大概有信心可以來達成好那最後一個就是學校裡面現在以大專院校來講每1200名的學生僅配一名的這個專業輔導人員而且所以平均每個學生可能都要一個月才有可能諮商的到排隊才有諮商的到所以我想要請問你們是否可以贊成下修把這個比例下修\n\n48\n00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:23,472\n教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部\n\n49\n00:17:41,303 --> 00:18:00,152\nOK好那我以上質詢完畢那希望喔今天質詢是希望說我們透過一個個案雖然大家說他覺得是個個案可是他也可能存在的系統裡面的問題所以希望不要從個案然後到處推諉謝責我們好好檢討解決問題不要讓個案變通案通案變系統性的危機好謝謝大家好我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18133\t20994\t主席有請部長好有請部長\n25034\t39004\t委員好部長好部長在這個檢討這個政府的責任之前因為我有看到一個更大的危機因為我覺得就是社安網正在瓦解中所以想要請教部長您認同嗎不太認同\n40905\t69667\t不太認同,好為什麼我要這樣講我想要跟您說的就是部長社安網不只是政府社福單位或是案家更重要的還有我們全國一萬八千六百多名這是一百一十一年的資料一萬八千六百多名的社工的專業跟熱忱讓我們全國的社安網撐起來但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰這是我的憂慮\n71008\t83278\t也是為什麼我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因因為這次的事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷請教部長這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理\n85252\t105310\t兩個部分,第一個部分對於這個涉案的這個社工本身來講因為他到底是否是有刑事責任,這個是一件事情但是在處理的過程當中給他參考,這的確是非常的不妥第二個,其他的社工人員,我們是非常支持\n107152\t134389\t我們不方便評論好 謝謝部長我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題社工界長期以來就是有這個三高、三缺以及一低的問題也就是我們的高風險、我們的高案量、高壓力然後缺督導、缺合作、缺資源以及偏低的薪資條件更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導也有這種薪資回捐的漏息\n135490\t158295\t並且也有研究指出社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有五成就業三年後近三成離開我們的社工圈留任者又有三成可能要離開這個社工專業所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案因為畢竟這是一個社會事件那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上這個系統上有沒有問題\n159435\t187358\t所以看起來這個社工的留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題是不是可以這麼說啦可以這麼說齁所以部長我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振我們的社工的這個士氣因為這一環是我們社安網裡面非常重要的一環對那我想這有兩點可以努力的方向跟部長分享也請教部長有沒有其他的想法我想有兩點努力的方向分別是當然就是提高我們的薪資\n188539\t189660\t剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確\n215424\t234925\t那第一個是這一個薪資能不能再繼續往上調這也是我們努力的方向這不過這還是要看這整體國家財政的狀況如何好那請謝謝那就請部長在這部分也多多的琢磨當然那另外一點就是提到他的形象的這部分的話\n235626\t249540\t我覺得這幾年來對於社工的形象的提升應該是已經有一個程度了因為在稍早幾年大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚了\n251059\t272868\t現在的話大概大家都了解社工就是社工而且社工他真的是肩負著非常重大部長謝謝喔拍著我懂你的意思但是我只是想說再加強這塊你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方因為我們知道這個如果社工人員認同他社工專業生涯後他投入工作可以獲得成就感就比較不會產生職業的怠惰嘛\n273408\t294480\t所以我其實這個問題我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展我是想說發生這個事件之後還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好的地方更多的地方呢當然這永遠都有最努力的空間啦比方說剛剛提到薪資的這部分那這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的這個財政狀況去做這個提升啦\n299488\t320911\t好 謝謝部長我聽起來是沒有對於這件這個專業認同可能要回去再思考在下一次開會或檢討會議有沒有比較具體可行的執行的行動方案要不然現在聽起來是比較模糊我們都知道往這一去可是可能要透過你們的專業還有你們跨部會的整合找出真正可以動作的這個執行方案那我也有去了解一下\n323035\t342746\t這幾年都會有去了解一下這幾年有一些社工比如說私的社工他不太願意加入社安網他們有說為什麼因為他們說社安網的年資無法採認所以導致可能在這個經驗傳承上他過去的累積的經驗他現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認請問想要請教部長有這個事情嗎\n347136\t372361\t應該不會有這個事情不過如果有這方面的一個問題的話我是希望就是說能夠直接跟衛福部這邊來對接我們瞭解真正問題是是好沒有問題那也請衛福部稍微再去了解一下有沒有這樣的狀況不然這個有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承的話的確會讓這個新的社工折損率也很高也不利於我們社會安全網的部件那再來\n374410\t394552\t部長你們昨天才提供這個虐童案的時序表雖然晚到但是總比不到來的好所以本席想要請教這個首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況所以在會議上有總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行\n396013\t412632\t那這個2019年的社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組是安置兒少的不同需求\n414293\t442858\t協助安置單位所需的支援也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組在各地的兒、少安置中扮演一個中介的角色然後再邀請不同的專家例如早療、身體諮商、法務等等擔任委員讓這個兒、少的評估可以更全面的關照那部長過去出養是由這個衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估嘛\n443669\t471687\t那也想要問請問部長是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清所以才要這樣修改沒有這是這一次我們發現的這個問題我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改因為每一個機構去統包一條龍的話的確容易發生問題是那部長未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及這個TBM也就是團體決策會議\n473496\t477578\t其實剛剛提到的 委員提到這一點的話是不必等到那個兒權法的修正\n492236\t508929\t至於委員問到說額群法的立法的一個進度的話那現在大概還在衛福部裡面因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時來進行一個是額群法一個是托育服務法、托育的專法這兩個會同時進行\n512412\t516935\t好 沒問題 請部長再繼續努力好 部長 那針對這個聶桐案件的致死案件上週三也有很多的縣市各個的社工團體發出聲明就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部\n529423\t546939\t沒有依照社政單位而效保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定在重大額內案件發生的30天內要完成這個調查報告請教部長是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會言商不做檢討報告\n548360\t567844\t是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部\n576824\t603435\t所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個\n605697\t618165\t因為您這樣的說法很像是司法調查沒有問題但是我們的主責單位沒有職責去了解整個流程過程當中有沒有一些行政上面的需要改進的地方\n619195\t642465\t因為這才是重點因為依規定我是覺得該檢討就要檢討但是沒有檢討現在亡羊補牢後面開了這個專家會議那當然其中還有一項你們提到說要求增加這個訪視率問題是現在各個縣市政府也都是有缺社工的情況請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標有沒有任何的配套措施\n643206\t662766\t這當然會跟地方去做討論不過跟委員報告我們今天所提的這個增加紡織率是有對象的就是哪一類的個案就必須要增加紡織率它原因是這樣子像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的這種行為\n664734\t678272\t這種惡意他要掩飾的話是相對是容易的因為我們的社工可能都相信說人是善良的但是如果有多重的反噬的話那可能他就跑不掉\n679610\t695785\t社會福利部長因為你們的這個檢討報告裡面也是簡短的只提到這句話所以我想要表達的事情是你們要再更細的去去針對去把定出這個作業準則不然你也會累死地方也根本不夠的人力甚至是你可能要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源\n697026\t713141\t對 當然就是要配套對 甚至就是所謂的所以我才問這個問題是說你們有沒有擬寫配套這也是為什麼我們覺得這個今天的檢討報告不夠完善我們要退回的原因因為這個東西就是太模糊了所以我只是想要提醒部長是說這個部分的確\n714102\t714282\t委員會主席\n736752\t756711\t那再來最後就是在後面還有我想要說部長我們最近整理了三年社家屬的公務預算在這個111年到113年的社會福利基金的預算發現看似兒少相關的預算也不少但是針對這種有狀況受虐或是需要出養的兒童這個經費好像不太夠也並不多\n759053\t779392\t例如你們委辦計畫中的這個兒童及少年收養中心資訊業務計畫每年大概是127萬左右委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立這個資訊提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務當然還有其他的包含家外安置、短期治療等等\n780773\t806110\t這個我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕那陳建仁院長也有在3月14號的時候說要成立這個食安檢查的負責的這個基金預算專款專用那我想一樣的我在思考事情是不是我今天想要要求衛福部是不是儘速的啟動研議把兒少保護業務的基金業務獨立出來這個也要成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金你覺得能否做到\n807671\t831630\t這個我們會跟行政那邊來做請示因為依照財政紀律法的話如果要成立基金的話就有一定的要求是沒關係部長這部分我會提案今天也已經提案了希望說你們可以好好的跨黨派研議這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的處理因為我覺得第一個預算足夠之外這樣子也可以更加透明更加讓大家知道說把這個費用用在哪裡\n832915\t841831\t那最後再來就是有反映這個跟部長也討論有關社會安全網中去年底這個發生國中割井案的事情\n842608\t863584\t那後來你們當然有一個結論我們看到一開始也覺得有一個結論就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息司法院對沒錯這個我知道這個跟司法院是有關但是我們本來是覺得是一個好消息但是最終我們認為說他說真樸少年調查保護人力不足所以\n864284\t877823\t成立北部的校家專業法院這是刻不容緩可是我這裡覺得很奇怪為什麼他只重視北部難道沒有中部、南部嗎那這樣的建議我知道你們是有共同開會的喔那這樣是有透過你們的建議是有經過衛福部的建議嗎\n879601\t893960\t我想這個是屬於司法院的業務我不知道他當時的一個決定為什麼是北部所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議這個會議行政院跟司法院有一起開會\n894941\t916013\t那現在是司法院先提出先做北部的兒少家庭加司法院那接下來會再看說是否要往中部或是南部設立是那這個部分我特別提出來是希望你們也關注我們中部和南部的需求因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部好不好那也請你們回去把這個建議帶回行政院跟司法院\n916909\t935777\t那再來我也想要今天是問好問滿嘛對不對我迅速最後最後好不好這個社安網的部分最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛原本大家都在討論這個相關的案件其實我想要補充的事情就是最近有關我們青少年心理困擾這幾年也是越來越嚴重\n936937\t938858\tWHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手\n959403\t986489\t所以我想要講的事情是我想要請衛福部喔你們去年有提出這個年輕族群心理健康支持方案我覺得很棒那我也支持可是每人有三次的這個免費心理諮商可是我們知道他很快就沒了而且量能不足喔所以想要請問因為現在也正在編列這個114年的預算想要請問這個部分有沒有可能把明年的這個次數量能增加到從三次增加到至少六次呢\n987895\t1011256\t這我們還需要再進一步評估因為總是預算還是有限的但是希望部長可以好好評估因為這個東西已經是社會大家的很重要也是社會安全網很重要的一塊那再來社會安全網很重要的一塊就是這個社區心理衛生中心目前是有48處到明年預計要71處請問明年是否會可以如值完成\n1011836\t1039271\t我們會盡力啦這是一個很明確的一個方向我們大概有信心可以來達成好那最後一個就是學校裡面現在以大專院校來講每1200名的學生僅配一名的這個專業輔導人員而且所以平均每個學生可能都要一個月才有可能諮商的到排隊才有諮商的到所以我想要請問你們是否可以贊成下修把這個比例下修\n1039910\t1043472\t教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部\n1061303\t1080152\tOK好那我以上質詢完畢那希望喔今天質詢是希望說我們透過一個個案雖然大家說他覺得是個個案可是他也可能存在的系統裡面的問題所以希望不要從個案然後到處推諉謝責我們好好檢討解決問題不要讓個案變通案通案變系統性的危機好謝謝大家好我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n","txt":"主席有請部長好有請部長\n委員好部長好部長在這個檢討這個政府的責任之前因為我有看到一個更大的危機因為我覺得就是社安網正在瓦解中所以想要請教部長您認同嗎不太認同\n不太認同,好為什麼我要這樣講我想要跟您說的就是部長社安網不只是政府社福單位或是案家更重要的還有我們全國一萬八千六百多名這是一百一十一年的資料一萬八千六百多名的社工的專業跟熱忱讓我們全國的社安網撐起來但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰這是我的憂慮\n也是為什麼我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因因為這次的事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷請教部長這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理\n兩個部分,第一個部分對於這個涉案的這個社工本身來講因為他到底是否是有刑事責任,這個是一件事情但是在處理的過程當中給他參考,這的確是非常的不妥第二個,其他的社工人員,我們是非常支持\n我們不方便評論好 謝謝部長我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題社工界長期以來就是有這個三高、三缺以及一低的問題也就是我們的高風險、我們的高案量、高壓力然後缺督導、缺合作、缺資源以及偏低的薪資條件更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導也有這種薪資回捐的漏息\n並且也有研究指出社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有五成就業三年後近三成離開我們的社工圈留任者又有三成可能要離開這個社工專業所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案因為畢竟這是一個社會事件那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上這個系統上有沒有問題\n所以看起來這個社工的留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題是不是可以這麼說啦可以這麼說齁所以部長我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振我們的社工的這個士氣因為這一環是我們社安網裡面非常重要的一環對那我想這有兩點可以努力的方向跟部長分享也請教部長有沒有其他的想法我想有兩點努力的方向分別是當然就是提高我們的薪資\n剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確\n那第一個是這一個薪資能不能再繼續往上調這也是我們努力的方向這不過這還是要看這整體國家財政的狀況如何好那請謝謝那就請部長在這部分也多多的琢磨當然那另外一點就是提到他的形象的這部分的話\n我覺得這幾年來對於社工的形象的提升應該是已經有一個程度了因為在稍早幾年大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚了\n現在的話大概大家都了解社工就是社工而且社工他真的是肩負著非常重大部長謝謝喔拍著我懂你的意思但是我只是想說再加強這塊你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方因為我們知道這個如果社工人員認同他社工專業生涯後他投入工作可以獲得成就感就比較不會產生職業的怠惰嘛\n所以我其實這個問題我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展我是想說發生這個事件之後還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好的地方更多的地方呢當然這永遠都有最努力的空間啦比方說剛剛提到薪資的這部分那這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的這個財政狀況去做這個提升啦\n好 謝謝部長我聽起來是沒有對於這件這個專業認同可能要回去再思考在下一次開會或檢討會議有沒有比較具體可行的執行的行動方案要不然現在聽起來是比較模糊我們都知道往這一去可是可能要透過你們的專業還有你們跨部會的整合找出真正可以動作的這個執行方案那我也有去了解一下\n這幾年都會有去了解一下這幾年有一些社工比如說私的社工他不太願意加入社安網他們有說為什麼因為他們說社安網的年資無法採認所以導致可能在這個經驗傳承上他過去的累積的經驗他現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認請問想要請教部長有這個事情嗎\n應該不會有這個事情不過如果有這方面的一個問題的話我是希望就是說能夠直接跟衛福部這邊來對接我們瞭解真正問題是是好沒有問題那也請衛福部稍微再去了解一下有沒有這樣的狀況不然這個有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承的話的確會讓這個新的社工折損率也很高也不利於我們社會安全網的部件那再來\n部長你們昨天才提供這個虐童案的時序表雖然晚到但是總比不到來的好所以本席想要請教這個首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況所以在會議上有總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行\n那這個2019年的社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組是安置兒少的不同需求\n協助安置單位所需的支援也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組在各地的兒、少安置中扮演一個中介的角色然後再邀請不同的專家例如早療、身體諮商、法務等等擔任委員讓這個兒、少的評估可以更全面的關照那部長過去出養是由這個衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估嘛\n那也想要問請問部長是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清所以才要這樣修改沒有這是這一次我們發現的這個問題我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改因為每一個機構去統包一條龍的話的確容易發生問題是那部長未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及這個TBM也就是團體決策會議\n其實剛剛提到的 委員提到這一點的話是不必等到那個兒權法的修正\n至於委員問到說額群法的立法的一個進度的話那現在大概還在衛福部裡面因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時來進行一個是額群法一個是托育服務法、托育的專法這兩個會同時進行\n好 沒問題 請部長再繼續努力好 部長 那針對這個聶桐案件的致死案件上週三也有很多的縣市各個的社工團體發出聲明就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部\n沒有依照社政單位而效保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定在重大額內案件發生的30天內要完成這個調查報告請教部長是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會言商不做檢討報告\n是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部\n所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個\n因為您這樣的說法很像是司法調查沒有問題但是我們的主責單位沒有職責去了解整個流程過程當中有沒有一些行政上面的需要改進的地方\n因為這才是重點因為依規定我是覺得該檢討就要檢討但是沒有檢討現在亡羊補牢後面開了這個專家會議那當然其中還有一項你們提到說要求增加這個訪視率問題是現在各個縣市政府也都是有缺社工的情況請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標有沒有任何的配套措施\n這當然會跟地方去做討論不過跟委員報告我們今天所提的這個增加紡織率是有對象的就是哪一類的個案就必須要增加紡織率它原因是這樣子像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的這種行為\n這種惡意他要掩飾的話是相對是容易的因為我們的社工可能都相信說人是善良的但是如果有多重的反噬的話那可能他就跑不掉\n社會福利部長因為你們的這個檢討報告裡面也是簡短的只提到這句話所以我想要表達的事情是你們要再更細的去去針對去把定出這個作業準則不然你也會累死地方也根本不夠的人力甚至是你可能要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源\n對 當然就是要配套對 甚至就是所謂的所以我才問這個問題是說你們有沒有擬寫配套這也是為什麼我們覺得這個今天的檢討報告不夠完善我們要退回的原因因為這個東西就是太模糊了所以我只是想要提醒部長是說這個部分的確\n委員會主席\n那再來最後就是在後面還有我想要說部長我們最近整理了三年社家屬的公務預算在這個111年到113年的社會福利基金的預算發現看似兒少相關的預算也不少但是針對這種有狀況受虐或是需要出養的兒童這個經費好像不太夠也並不多\n例如你們委辦計畫中的這個兒童及少年收養中心資訊業務計畫每年大概是127萬左右委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立這個資訊提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務當然還有其他的包含家外安置、短期治療等等\n這個我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕那陳建仁院長也有在3月14號的時候說要成立這個食安檢查的負責的這個基金預算專款專用那我想一樣的我在思考事情是不是我今天想要要求衛福部是不是儘速的啟動研議把兒少保護業務的基金業務獨立出來這個也要成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金你覺得能否做到\n這個我們會跟行政那邊來做請示因為依照財政紀律法的話如果要成立基金的話就有一定的要求是沒關係部長這部分我會提案今天也已經提案了希望說你們可以好好的跨黨派研議這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的處理因為我覺得第一個預算足夠之外這樣子也可以更加透明更加讓大家知道說把這個費用用在哪裡\n那最後再來就是有反映這個跟部長也討論有關社會安全網中去年底這個發生國中割井案的事情\n那後來你們當然有一個結論我們看到一開始也覺得有一個結論就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息司法院對沒錯這個我知道這個跟司法院是有關但是我們本來是覺得是一個好消息但是最終我們認為說他說真樸少年調查保護人力不足所以\n成立北部的校家專業法院這是刻不容緩可是我這裡覺得很奇怪為什麼他只重視北部難道沒有中部、南部嗎那這樣的建議我知道你們是有共同開會的喔那這樣是有透過你們的建議是有經過衛福部的建議嗎\n我想這個是屬於司法院的業務我不知道他當時的一個決定為什麼是北部所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議這個會議行政院跟司法院有一起開會\n那現在是司法院先提出先做北部的兒少家庭加司法院那接下來會再看說是否要往中部或是南部設立是那這個部分我特別提出來是希望你們也關注我們中部和南部的需求因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部好不好那也請你們回去把這個建議帶回行政院跟司法院\n那再來我也想要今天是問好問滿嘛對不對我迅速最後最後好不好這個社安網的部分最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛原本大家都在討論這個相關的案件其實我想要補充的事情就是最近有關我們青少年心理困擾這幾年也是越來越嚴重\nWHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手\n所以我想要講的事情是我想要請衛福部喔你們去年有提出這個年輕族群心理健康支持方案我覺得很棒那我也支持可是每人有三次的這個免費心理諮商可是我們知道他很快就沒了而且量能不足喔所以想要請問因為現在也正在編列這個114年的預算想要請問這個部分有沒有可能把明年的這個次數量能增加到從三次增加到至少六次呢\n這我們還需要再進一步評估因為總是預算還是有限的但是希望部長可以好好評估因為這個東西已經是社會大家的很重要也是社會安全網很重要的一塊那再來社會安全網很重要的一塊就是這個社區心理衛生中心目前是有48處到明年預計要71處請問明年是否會可以如值完成\n我們會盡力啦這是一個很明確的一個方向我們大概有信心可以來達成好那最後一個就是學校裡面現在以大專院校來講每1200名的學生僅配一名的這個專業輔導人員而且所以平均每個學生可能都要一個月才有可能諮商的到排隊才有諮商的到所以我想要請問你們是否可以贊成下修把這個比例下修\n教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部\nOK好那我以上質詢完畢那希望喔今天質詢是希望說我們透過一個個案雖然大家說他覺得是個個案可是他也可能存在的系統裡面的問題所以希望不要從個案然後到處推諉謝責我們好好檢討解決問題不要讓個案變通案通案變系統性的危機好謝謝大家好我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.133 --> 00:20.994\n主席有請部長好有請部長\n\n00:25.034 --> 00:39.004\n委員好部長好部長在這個檢討這個政府的責任之前因為我有看到一個更大的危機因為我覺得就是社安網正在瓦解中所以想要請教部長您認同嗎不太認同\n\n00:40.905 --> 01:09.667\n不太認同,好為什麼我要這樣講我想要跟您說的就是部長社安網不只是政府社福單位或是案家更重要的還有我們全國一萬八千六百多名這是一百一十一年的資料一萬八千六百多名的社工的專業跟熱忱讓我們全國的社安網撐起來但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰這是我的憂慮\n\n01:11.008 --> 01:23.278\n也是為什麼我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因因為這次的事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷請教部長這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理\n\n01:25.252 --> 01:45.310\n兩個部分,第一個部分對於這個涉案的這個社工本身來講因為他到底是否是有刑事責任,這個是一件事情但是在處理的過程當中給他參考,這的確是非常的不妥第二個,其他的社工人員,我們是非常支持\n\n01:47.152 --> 02:14.389\n我們不方便評論好謝謝部長我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題社工界長期以來就是有這個三高、三缺以及一低的問題也就是我們的高風險、我們的高案量、高壓力然後缺督導、缺合作、缺資源以及偏低的薪資條件更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導也有這種薪資回捐的漏息\n\n02:15.490 --> 02:38.295\n並且也有研究指出社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有五成就業三年後近三成離開我們的社工圈留任者又有三成可能要離開這個社工專業所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案因為畢竟這是一個社會事件那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上這個系統上有沒有問題\n\n02:39.435 --> 03:07.358\n所以看起來這個社工的留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題是不是可以這麼說啦可以這麼說齁所以部長我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振我們的社工的這個士氣因為這一環是我們社安網裡面非常重要的一環對那我想這有兩點可以努力的方向跟部長分享也請教部長有沒有其他的想法我想有兩點努力的方向分別是當然就是提高我們的薪資\n\n03:08.539 --> 03:09.660\n剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確\n\n03:35.424 --> 03:54.925\n那第一個是這一個薪資能不能再繼續往上調這也是我們努力的方向這不過這還是要看這整體國家財政的狀況如何好那請謝謝那就請部長在這部分也多多的琢磨當然那另外一點就是提到他的形象的這部分的話\n\n03:55.626 --> 04:09.540\n我覺得這幾年來對於社工的形象的提升應該是已經有一個程度了因為在稍早幾年大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚了\n\n04:11.059 --> 04:32.868\n現在的話大概大家都了解社工就是社工而且社工他真的是肩負著非常重大部長謝謝喔拍著我懂你的意思但是我只是想說再加強這塊你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方因為我們知道這個如果社工人員認同他社工專業生涯後他投入工作可以獲得成就感就比較不會產生職業的怠惰嘛\n\n04:33.408 --> 04:54.480\n所以我其實這個問題我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展我是想說發生這個事件之後還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好的地方更多的地方呢當然這永遠都有最努力的空間啦比方說剛剛提到薪資的這部分那這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的這個財政狀況去做這個提升啦\n\n04:59.488 --> 05:20.911\n好謝謝部長我聽起來是沒有對於這件這個專業認同可能要回去再思考在下一次開會或檢討會議有沒有比較具體可行的執行的行動方案要不然現在聽起來是比較模糊我們都知道往這一去可是可能要透過你們的專業還有你們跨部會的整合找出真正可以動作的這個執行方案那我也有去了解一下\n\n05:23.035 --> 05:42.746\n這幾年都會有去了解一下這幾年有一些社工比如說私的社工他不太願意加入社安網他們有說為什麼因為他們說社安網的年資無法採認所以導致可能在這個經驗傳承上他過去的累積的經驗他現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認請問想要請教部長有這個事情嗎\n\n05:47.136 --> 06:12.361\n應該不會有這個事情不過如果有這方面的一個問題的話我是希望就是說能夠直接跟衛福部這邊來對接我們瞭解真正問題是是好沒有問題那也請衛福部稍微再去了解一下有沒有這樣的狀況不然這個有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承的話的確會讓這個新的社工折損率也很高也不利於我們社會安全網的部件那再來\n\n06:14.410 --> 06:34.552\n部長你們昨天才提供這個虐童案的時序表雖然晚到但是總比不到來的好所以本席想要請教這個首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況所以在會議上有總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行\n\n06:36.013 --> 06:52.632\n那這個2019年的社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組是安置兒少的不同需求\n\n06:54.293 --> 07:22.858\n協助安置單位所需的支援也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組在各地的兒、少安置中扮演一個中介的角色然後再邀請不同的專家例如早療、身體諮商、法務等等擔任委員讓這個兒、少的評估可以更全面的關照那部長過去出養是由這個衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估嘛\n\n07:23.669 --> 07:51.687\n那也想要問請問部長是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清所以才要這樣修改沒有這是這一次我們發現的這個問題我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改因為每一個機構去統包一條龍的話的確容易發生問題是那部長未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及這個TBM也就是團體決策會議\n\n07:53.496 --> 07:57.578\n其實剛剛提到的委員提到這一點的話是不必等到那個兒權法的修正\n\n08:12.236 --> 08:28.929\n至於委員問到說額群法的立法的一個進度的話那現在大概還在衛福部裡面因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時來進行一個是額群法一個是托育服務法、托育的專法這兩個會同時進行\n\n08:32.412 --> 08:36.935\n好沒問題請部長再繼續努力好部長那針對這個聶桐案件的致死案件上週三也有很多的縣市各個的社工團體發出聲明就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部\n\n08:49.423 --> 09:06.939\n沒有依照社政單位而效保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定在重大額內案件發生的30天內要完成這個調查報告請教部長是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會言商不做檢討報告\n\n09:08.360 --> 09:27.844\n是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部\n\n09:36.824 --> 10:03.435\n所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個\n\n10:05.697 --> 10:18.165\n因為您這樣的說法很像是司法調查沒有問題但是我們的主責單位沒有職責去了解整個流程過程當中有沒有一些行政上面的需要改進的地方\n\n10:19.195 --> 10:42.465\n因為這才是重點因為依規定我是覺得該檢討就要檢討但是沒有檢討現在亡羊補牢後面開了這個專家會議那當然其中還有一項你們提到說要求增加這個訪視率問題是現在各個縣市政府也都是有缺社工的情況請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標有沒有任何的配套措施\n\n10:43.206 --> 11:02.766\n這當然會跟地方去做討論不過跟委員報告我們今天所提的這個增加紡織率是有對象的就是哪一類的個案就必須要增加紡織率它原因是這樣子像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的這種行為\n\n11:04.734 --> 11:18.272\n這種惡意他要掩飾的話是相對是容易的因為我們的社工可能都相信說人是善良的但是如果有多重的反噬的話那可能他就跑不掉\n\n11:19.610 --> 11:35.785\n社會福利部長因為你們的這個檢討報告裡面也是簡短的只提到這句話所以我想要表達的事情是你們要再更細的去去針對去把定出這個作業準則不然你也會累死地方也根本不夠的人力甚至是你可能要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源\n\n11:37.026 --> 11:53.141\n對當然就是要配套對甚至就是所謂的所以我才問這個問題是說你們有沒有擬寫配套這也是為什麼我們覺得這個今天的檢討報告不夠完善我們要退回的原因因為這個東西就是太模糊了所以我只是想要提醒部長是說這個部分的確\n\n11:54.102 --> 11:54.282\n委員會主席\n\n12:16.752 --> 12:36.711\n那再來最後就是在後面還有我想要說部長我們最近整理了三年社家屬的公務預算在這個111年到113年的社會福利基金的預算發現看似兒少相關的預算也不少但是針對這種有狀況受虐或是需要出養的兒童這個經費好像不太夠也並不多\n\n12:39.053 --> 12:59.392\n例如你們委辦計畫中的這個兒童及少年收養中心資訊業務計畫每年大概是127萬左右委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立這個資訊提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務當然還有其他的包含家外安置、短期治療等等\n\n13:00.773 --> 13:26.110\n這個我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕那陳建仁院長也有在3月14號的時候說要成立這個食安檢查的負責的這個基金預算專款專用那我想一樣的我在思考事情是不是我今天想要要求衛福部是不是儘速的啟動研議把兒少保護業務的基金業務獨立出來這個也要成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金你覺得能否做到\n\n13:27.671 --> 13:51.630\n這個我們會跟行政那邊來做請示因為依照財政紀律法的話如果要成立基金的話就有一定的要求是沒關係部長這部分我會提案今天也已經提案了希望說你們可以好好的跨黨派研議這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的處理因為我覺得第一個預算足夠之外這樣子也可以更加透明更加讓大家知道說把這個費用用在哪裡\n\n13:52.915 --> 14:01.831\n那最後再來就是有反映這個跟部長也討論有關社會安全網中去年底這個發生國中割井案的事情\n\n14:02.608 --> 14:23.584\n那後來你們當然有一個結論我們看到一開始也覺得有一個結論就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息司法院對沒錯這個我知道這個跟司法院是有關但是我們本來是覺得是一個好消息但是最終我們認為說他說真樸少年調查保護人力不足所以\n\n14:24.284 --> 14:37.823\n成立北部的校家專業法院這是刻不容緩可是我這裡覺得很奇怪為什麼他只重視北部難道沒有中部、南部嗎那這樣的建議我知道你們是有共同開會的喔那這樣是有透過你們的建議是有經過衛福部的建議嗎\n\n14:39.601 --> 14:53.960\n我想這個是屬於司法院的業務我不知道他當時的一個決定為什麼是北部所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議這個會議行政院跟司法院有一起開會\n\n14:54.941 --> 15:16.013\n那現在是司法院先提出先做北部的兒少家庭加司法院那接下來會再看說是否要往中部或是南部設立是那這個部分我特別提出來是希望你們也關注我們中部和南部的需求因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部好不好那也請你們回去把這個建議帶回行政院跟司法院\n\n15:16.909 --> 15:35.777\n那再來我也想要今天是問好問滿嘛對不對我迅速最後最後好不好這個社安網的部分最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛原本大家都在討論這個相關的案件其實我想要補充的事情就是最近有關我們青少年心理困擾這幾年也是越來越嚴重\n\n15:36.937 --> 15:38.858\nWHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手\n\n15:59.403 --> 16:26.489\n所以我想要講的事情是我想要請衛福部喔你們去年有提出這個年輕族群心理健康支持方案我覺得很棒那我也支持可是每人有三次的這個免費心理諮商可是我們知道他很快就沒了而且量能不足喔所以想要請問因為現在也正在編列這個114年的預算想要請問這個部分有沒有可能把明年的這個次數量能增加到從三次增加到至少六次呢\n\n16:27.895 --> 16:51.256\n這我們還需要再進一步評估因為總是預算還是有限的但是希望部長可以好好評估因為這個東西已經是社會大家的很重要也是社會安全網很重要的一塊那再來社會安全網很重要的一塊就是這個社區心理衛生中心目前是有48處到明年預計要71處請問明年是否會可以如值完成\n\n16:51.836 --> 17:19.271\n我們會盡力啦這是一個很明確的一個方向我們大概有信心可以來達成好那最後一個就是學校裡面現在以大專院校來講每1200名的學生僅配一名的這個專業輔導人員而且所以平均每個學生可能都要一個月才有可能諮商的到排隊才有諮商的到所以我想要請問你們是否可以贊成下修把這個比例下修\n\n17:19.910 --> 17:23.472\n教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部\n\n17:41.303 --> 18:00.152\nOK好那我以上質詢完畢那希望喔今天質詢是希望說我們透過一個個案雖然大家說他覺得是個個案可是他也可能存在的系統裡面的問題所以希望不要從個案然後到處推諉謝責我們好好檢討解決問題不要讓個案變通案通案變系統性的危機好謝謝大家好我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.133,"end":20.994,"text":"主席有請部長好有請部長"},{"start":25.034,"end":39.004,"text":"委員好部長好部長在這個檢討這個政府的責任之前因為我有看到一個更大的危機因為我覺得就是社安網正在瓦解中所以想要請教部長您認同嗎不太認同"},{"start":40.905,"end":69.667,"text":"不太認同,好為什麼我要這樣講我想要跟您說的就是部長社安網不只是政府社福單位或是案家更重要的還有我們全國一萬八千六百多名這是一百一十一年的資料一萬八千六百多名的社工的專業跟熱忱讓我們全國的社安網撐起來但這次的事件也有可能讓好不容易打造的社安網一夕間崩潰這是我的憂慮"},{"start":71.008,"end":83.278,"text":"也是為什麼我剛剛提到我覺得社安網正在瓦解的原因因為這次的事件也造成社工界的集體心理創傷請教部長這個部分您覺得要怎麼處理"},{"start":85.252,"end":105.31,"text":"兩個部分,第一個部分對於這個涉案的這個社工本身來講因為他到底是否是有刑事責任,這個是一件事情但是在處理的過程當中給他參考,這的確是非常的不妥第二個,其他的社工人員,我們是非常支持"},{"start":107.152,"end":134.389,"text":"我們不方便評論好 謝謝部長我要講的事情是針對這個結構性的問題社工界長期以來就是有這個三高、三缺以及一低的問題也就是我們的高風險、我們的高案量、高壓力然後缺督導、缺合作、缺資源以及偏低的薪資條件更別提之前常常有新聞媒體報導也有這種薪資回捐的漏息"},{"start":135.49,"end":158.295,"text":"並且也有研究指出社工系畢業生投入社工者大概是只有五成就業三年後近三成離開我們的社工圈留任者又有三成可能要離開這個社工專業所以我剛剛講的事情也不是針對這個個案因為畢竟這是一個社會事件那我們只是透過這個個案來看我們社會上這個系統上有沒有問題"},{"start":159.435,"end":187.358,"text":"所以看起來這個社工的留任困難已經是一個結構性的問題是不是可以這麼說啦可以這麼說齁所以部長我認為我們應該要想辦法來重振我們的社工的這個士氣因為這一環是我們社安網裡面非常重要的一環對那我想這有兩點可以努力的方向跟部長分享也請教部長有沒有其他的想法我想有兩點努力的方向分別是當然就是提高我們的薪資"},{"start":188.539,"end":189.66,"text":"剛剛委員提到兩點其實都非常正確"},{"start":215.424,"end":234.925,"text":"那第一個是這一個薪資能不能再繼續往上調這也是我們努力的方向這不過這還是要看這整體國家財政的狀況如何好那請謝謝那就請部長在這部分也多多的琢磨當然那另外一點就是提到他的形象的這部分的話"},{"start":235.626,"end":249.54,"text":"我覺得這幾年來對於社工的形象的提升應該是已經有一個程度了因為在稍早幾年大家連志工跟社工都分不清楚了"},{"start":251.059,"end":272.868,"text":"現在的話大概大家都了解社工就是社工而且社工他真的是肩負著非常重大部長謝謝喔拍著我懂你的意思但是我只是想說再加強這塊你們檢討完有沒有可以做更多的地方因為我們知道這個如果社工人員認同他社工專業生涯後他投入工作可以獲得成就感就比較不會產生職業的怠惰嘛"},{"start":273.408,"end":294.48,"text":"所以我其實這個問題我不是要您解釋過去有怎麼樣進展我是想說發生這個事件之後還有沒有你們覺得可以做得更好的地方更多的地方呢當然這永遠都有最努力的空間啦比方說剛剛提到薪資的這部分那這個就逐步要去依照我們能夠負擔的這個財政狀況去做這個提升啦"},{"start":299.488,"end":320.911,"text":"好 謝謝部長我聽起來是沒有對於這件這個專業認同可能要回去再思考在下一次開會或檢討會議有沒有比較具體可行的執行的行動方案要不然現在聽起來是比較模糊我們都知道往這一去可是可能要透過你們的專業還有你們跨部會的整合找出真正可以動作的這個執行方案那我也有去了解一下"},{"start":323.035,"end":342.746,"text":"這幾年都會有去了解一下這幾年有一些社工比如說私的社工他不太願意加入社安網他們有說為什麼因為他們說社安網的年資無法採認所以導致可能在這個經驗傳承上他過去的累積的經驗他現在轉到社安網裡好像不會被採認請問想要請教部長有這個事情嗎"},{"start":347.136,"end":372.361,"text":"應該不會有這個事情不過如果有這方面的一個問題的話我是希望就是說能夠直接跟衛福部這邊來對接我們瞭解真正問題是是好沒有問題那也請衛福部稍微再去了解一下有沒有這樣的狀況不然這個有經驗的社工如果沒有辦法傳承的話的確會讓這個新的社工折損率也很高也不利於我們社會安全網的部件那再來"},{"start":374.41,"end":394.552,"text":"部長你們昨天才提供這個虐童案的時序表雖然晚到但是總比不到來的好所以本席想要請教這個首次兒童權利國家公約報告的時候許多學者專家提到家外安置的狀況所以在會議上有總結提出這個機制是要以家庭為單位做進行"},{"start":396.013,"end":412.632,"text":"那這個2019年的社家署也針對這個評估的內容開啟了家外安置兒少替代性照顧資源強化計畫的推動與執行希望能夠協助各個縣市在地評估小組是安置兒少的不同需求"},{"start":414.293,"end":442.858,"text":"協助安置單位所需的支援也就是由縣市政府為首的在地評估小組在各地的兒、少安置中扮演一個中介的角色然後再邀請不同的專家例如早療、身體諮商、法務等等擔任委員讓這個兒、少的評估可以更全面的關照那部長過去出養是由這個衛福部委託的社福機構執行評估但這次的專家會議決定未來出養由地方政府評估嘛"},{"start":443.669,"end":471.687,"text":"那也想要問請問部長是否過去有發生過機構和寄養家庭間為了利益問題而糾纏不清所以才要這樣修改沒有這是這一次我們發現的這個問題我們決定就一定要做這方面的修改因為每一個機構去統包一條龍的話的確容易發生問題是那部長未來出養決定是否也應該納入在地評估小組以及這個TBM也就是團體決策會議"},{"start":473.496,"end":477.578,"text":"其實剛剛提到的 委員提到這一點的話是不必等到那個兒權法的修正"},{"start":492.236,"end":508.929,"text":"至於委員問到說額群法的立法的一個進度的話那現在大概還在衛福部裡面因為我們這一次會有兩個法同時來進行一個是額群法一個是托育服務法、托育的專法這兩個會同時進行"},{"start":512.412,"end":516.935,"text":"好 沒問題 請部長再繼續努力好 部長 那針對這個聶桐案件的致死案件上週三也有很多的縣市各個的社工團體發出聲明就是強烈譴責我們的主責主管機關也就是衛福部"},{"start":529.423,"end":546.939,"text":"沒有依照社政單位而效保護案件通報處理調查及處遇服務作業程序的規定在重大額內案件發生的30天內要完成這個調查報告請教部長是什麼原因讓您覺得可以不開會言商不做檢討報告"},{"start":548.36,"end":567.844,"text":"是因為當初我有看到新聞您說是因為小孩已經死了就可以不用開嗎?我沒有這樣講根本報告齁其實從那個處理事件的流程是第一方要做通報這是第一點第二個地方就要去做檢討的會議開這個檢討會議在10天之內檢討會議之後兩週之內要把檢討報告給衛福部"},{"start":576.824,"end":603.435,"text":"所以您的意思是說30天沒有完成報告是因為地方政府沒有開嗎?中央是沒有說一定要去開這個檢討會議的是地方一定要開地方把這個檢討報告送過來之後的話我們如果發現說這中間是可能有問題我們才去開然後請地方來說明所以這個程序的規定不包含衛福部需要在30天內就是完成這個調查報告應該沒有這個"},{"start":605.697,"end":618.165,"text":"因為您這樣的說法很像是司法調查沒有問題但是我們的主責單位沒有職責去了解整個流程過程當中有沒有一些行政上面的需要改進的地方"},{"start":619.195,"end":642.465,"text":"因為這才是重點因為依規定我是覺得該檢討就要檢討但是沒有檢討現在亡羊補牢後面開了這個專家會議那當然其中還有一項你們提到說要求增加這個訪視率問題是現在各個縣市政府也都是有缺社工的情況請問衛福部要怎麼達成這個目標有沒有任何的配套措施"},{"start":643.206,"end":662.766,"text":"這當然會跟地方去做討論不過跟委員報告我們今天所提的這個增加紡織率是有對象的就是哪一類的個案就必須要增加紡織率它原因是這樣子像這種惡意的保母做出這種令人髮指的這種行為"},{"start":664.734,"end":678.272,"text":"這種惡意他要掩飾的話是相對是容易的因為我們的社工可能都相信說人是善良的但是如果有多重的反噬的話那可能他就跑不掉"},{"start":679.61,"end":695.785,"text":"社會福利部長因為你們的這個檢討報告裡面也是簡短的只提到這句話所以我想要表達的事情是你們要再更細的去去針對去把定出這個作業準則不然你也會累死地方也根本不夠的人力甚至是你可能要考量要怎麼樣給地方資源"},{"start":697.026,"end":713.141,"text":"對 當然就是要配套對 甚至就是所謂的所以我才問這個問題是說你們有沒有擬寫配套這也是為什麼我們覺得這個今天的檢討報告不夠完善我們要退回的原因因為這個東西就是太模糊了所以我只是想要提醒部長是說這個部分的確"},{"start":714.102,"end":714.282,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":736.752,"end":756.711,"text":"那再來最後就是在後面還有我想要說部長我們最近整理了三年社家屬的公務預算在這個111年到113年的社會福利基金的預算發現看似兒少相關的預算也不少但是針對這種有狀況受虐或是需要出養的兒童這個經費好像不太夠也並不多"},{"start":759.053,"end":779.392,"text":"例如你們委辦計畫中的這個兒童及少年收養中心資訊業務計畫每年大概是127萬左右委辦內容當然大部分是社福機構團體保存及建立這個資訊提供尋親、心理、醫療、法律等諮詢的轉介業務當然還有其他的包含家外安置、短期治療等等"},{"start":780.773,"end":806.11,"text":"這個我是覺得這個經費是不是不太充裕那陳建仁院長也有在3月14號的時候說要成立這個食安檢查的負責的這個基金預算專款專用那我想一樣的我在思考事情是不是我今天想要要求衛福部是不是儘速的啟動研議把兒少保護業務的基金業務獨立出來這個也要成立一個獨立的中央兒少保護基金你覺得能否做到"},{"start":807.671,"end":831.63,"text":"這個我們會跟行政那邊來做請示因為依照財政紀律法的話如果要成立基金的話就有一定的要求是沒關係部長這部分我會提案今天也已經提案了希望說你們可以好好的跨黨派研議這樣子的案件是不是可以用這樣的處理因為我覺得第一個預算足夠之外這樣子也可以更加透明更加讓大家知道說把這個費用用在哪裡"},{"start":832.915,"end":841.831,"text":"那最後再來就是有反映這個跟部長也討論有關社會安全網中去年底這個發生國中割井案的事情"},{"start":842.608,"end":863.584,"text":"那後來你們當然有一個結論我們看到一開始也覺得有一個結論就是推動成立北部的少家法院這個消息司法院對沒錯這個我知道這個跟司法院是有關但是我們本來是覺得是一個好消息但是最終我們認為說他說真樸少年調查保護人力不足所以"},{"start":864.284,"end":877.823,"text":"成立北部的校家專業法院這是刻不容緩可是我這裡覺得很奇怪為什麼他只重視北部難道沒有中部、南部嗎那這樣的建議我知道你們是有共同開會的喔那這樣是有透過你們的建議是有經過衛福部的建議嗎"},{"start":879.601,"end":893.96,"text":"我想這個是屬於司法院的業務我不知道他當時的一個決定為什麼是北部所以你們沒有提供這方面的建議這個會議行政院跟司法院有一起開會"},{"start":894.941,"end":916.013,"text":"那現在是司法院先提出先做北部的兒少家庭加司法院那接下來會再看說是否要往中部或是南部設立是那這個部分我特別提出來是希望你們也關注我們中部和南部的需求因為這個事情不會只有發生在北部好不好那也請你們回去把這個建議帶回行政院跟司法院"},{"start":916.909,"end":935.777,"text":"那再來我也想要今天是問好問滿嘛對不對我迅速最後最後好不好這個社安網的部分最近我也想要另外跳脫剛剛原本大家都在討論這個相關的案件其實我想要補充的事情就是最近有關我們青少年心理困擾這幾年也是越來越嚴重"},{"start":936.937,"end":938.858,"text":"WHO也把憂鬱症列為21世紀人類健康的頭號殺手"},{"start":959.403,"end":986.489,"text":"所以我想要講的事情是我想要請衛福部喔你們去年有提出這個年輕族群心理健康支持方案我覺得很棒那我也支持可是每人有三次的這個免費心理諮商可是我們知道他很快就沒了而且量能不足喔所以想要請問因為現在也正在編列這個114年的預算想要請問這個部分有沒有可能把明年的這個次數量能增加到從三次增加到至少六次呢"},{"start":987.895,"end":1011.256,"text":"這我們還需要再進一步評估因為總是預算還是有限的但是希望部長可以好好評估因為這個東西已經是社會大家的很重要也是社會安全網很重要的一塊那再來社會安全網很重要的一塊就是這個社區心理衛生中心目前是有48處到明年預計要71處請問明年是否會可以如值完成"},{"start":1011.836,"end":1039.271,"text":"我們會盡力啦這是一個很明確的一個方向我們大概有信心可以來達成好那最後一個就是學校裡面現在以大專院校來講每1200名的學生僅配一名的這個專業輔導人員而且所以平均每個學生可能都要一個月才有可能諮商的到排隊才有諮商的到所以我想要請問你們是否可以贊成下修把這個比例下修"},{"start":1039.91,"end":1043.472,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":1061.303,"end":1080.152,"text":"OK好那我以上質詢完畢那希望喔今天質詢是希望說我們透過一個個案雖然大家說他覺得是個個案可是他也可能存在的系統裡面的問題所以希望不要從個案然後到處推諉謝責我們好好檢討解決問題不要讓個案變通案通案變系統性的危機好謝謝大家好我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢"}]}}}}