{"id":150046,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150046","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733ac7cfa364a81ec4af25cd79889bed64eaf8ba9b0039caa7a62ff8e0841230419b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"15:59:07 - 16:08:18","影片長度":"00:09:11","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部、內政部警政署就「社會安全網推動情形及策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-6"},"date":"2024-03-18","duration":551,"end_time":"2024-03-18T16:08:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-18T15:59:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":2156,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（15時59分）有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長午安。我想我們從早上到下午，這個虐嬰致死的悲劇讓整個社會都很震驚，我們也檢討了非常多，我其實想先請問部長，您是哪一個部的部長？"],["薛部長瑞元：衛福部。"],["范委員雲：對，衛福部根據官網的職責是：中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關，負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務，並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導、監督和協調的責任。這個沒錯吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["范委員雲：所以我想這件事情第一線的機構─地方政府當然是很有責任，可是中央呢？我想你們之前也有聲明過，中央有明確的監督、指導、協調的責任。我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您，全國除了衛生是您督導，全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導，沒錯吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["范委員雲：因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明，我看到新聞都是次長李麗芬跟社工司蘇司長在回應，我想請問您，對這次社工被上手銬的事件，您個人有什麼看法？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分，當然個案是否有刑事上的責任，我們靜待調查之後，我們先不予置評；但是對於全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力，讓整個國家的社會安全網能夠維持住，我們是非常的感激的，至於這個過程當中有上手銬這樣的一個做法，我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討。"],["范委員雲：所以您也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，他們已經做了檢討。"],["范委員雲：好。那我是想請問，衛福部為我們第一線社工做了哪些事？因為其實社工的工作有非常多暴力行為的當事人，是一個高風險的工作，以我這邊的資料，網路上在這次事件之後，社工講到自己的安全，譬如有一位就講：找警察共訪，警察叫社工先深入險境，警察在外面等；還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡、家訪完被黑衣人圍毆。所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人，我想請問，您做為部長您知道，雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到「得請求警察」，因為這是你們自己中央的指引裡面寫的，可是警察也可以拒絕、不完全配合耶。因為我查到的是，臺中市政府也是只寫「得」，卻沒有寫警察一定得配合；高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫「被請求之機關應予配合」，很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關配合的時候，我只看到……當然我沒有把全國都找完，可是衛福部做為中央，似乎在這個部分還相對不足，這是第一個我想講的。","你看到這次因為這個創傷，社工的一些臉書就請大家來分享各自的創傷，這邊是我們的辦公室找的幾個，一位是自殺防治的社工，談完之後對方就跳下去了，然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場；另一位是服務一位開瓦斯自殺案主的社工，後來他也是不斷的哭哪裡沒做好、不斷的自責自己。這邊右上方是一位讓新生兒從母親身旁被帶走的社工，因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩，但是後來這位母親，也就是相對人就自殺了，所以這位社工也活在懷疑自己決定安置小孩是不是對的、母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩，而以此捍衛自己的清白？最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件被上銬帶走，案主走之前還跟他揮手道別，所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好，導致案主出事。所以我想部長並不會反對社工的工作其實面對非常多的創傷以及有很多的自責，部長不反對吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例。"],["范委員雲：當然都是案例，可是我們隨便找找，在這次事件之後就有人有這麼多分享。我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解，衛福部如果是社福的主管機關，那麼社工就是社安網最基層的勞工，他們面臨到的是一個保護很少、創傷跟自責很多的工作，所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12日，也就是社工被上銬那天叫做社工集體創傷日，社工工會馬上就要來衛福部門口抗議了！所以我想請問部長，你有什麼對策？面對全臺社工已經在一個高風險的工作環境，我們給他們的資源、保護非常少，可是他們工作的本質就是創傷非常多，加上這個上銬的事情，衛福部雖有反應，但是也是慢了半拍，在公會發了聲明之後第二天，次長有出來反應，提出三點聲明。衛福部有什麼對策？面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷。"],["薛部長瑞元：第一，對於社工執行業務的時候，缺乏保護的這個部分，我們會再跟警政單位來做一個協調，我們希望這個協助是更有效率的。"],["范委員雲：好，所以第一點，你們自己中央的手冊就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嘛……"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以……"],["范委員雲：不該是像社工看到的，還說：社工你先進去，我在外面等你。社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎？不可能嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：所以這個部分的SOP就必須大家一起……"],["范委員雲：必須要檢討修正。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，把它制定下來。"],["范委員雲：那其他呢？社工的創傷也很多這些？我們就不講待遇了。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分當然我們是希望能夠把大家整合起來，因為這方面，所謂的集體創傷要去宣洩出來，我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做。第三個部分就是對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持，除了他原單位裡面可能會有督導的系統來做支持之外，我們希望未來在部裡面也應該有一個這樣的平臺，來接受他們的一些意見或者一些經驗，能夠有專家來……"],["范委員雲：好，因為時間緣故，我剛聽到三點，第一個是針對警察應協助社工部分，你會去修改中央相關的規定指引。"],["薛部長瑞元：我會跟警察機關來……"],["范委員雲：第二個是社工的創傷，你們會有相關的輔導跟服務。第三個是你們這個系統的部分也會檢視。我想要儘快邀我們全國的社工，一起來聽聽他們集體的心聲。我是覺得還是非常不夠，為什麼今天要請部長您來答？因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導，社福總是次長在領導，我會認為部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利，尤其是我們社安網基層勞工的心聲，如果連社工都大幅出走的話，那我很難想像我們的社安網如何給民眾信心。好不好？拜託部長可不可以給我的辦公室一個報告，好嗎？就剛剛您承諾的那幾點，當然還可以有更多，可以？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["范委員雲：多久會給我一個報告？"],["薛部長瑞元：兩個禮拜。"],["范委員雲：兩個禮拜？好，謝謝部長，加油，謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請林思銘委員。林思銘、林思銘委員不在。","黃健豪、黃健豪、黃健豪委員不在。","鄭天財、鄭天財、鄭天財委員不在。","謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯委員不在。","顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員不在。","林國成委員、林國成委員、林國成委員不在。","接下來我們請黃國昌委員進行諮詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-6","speakers":["王育敏","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","林月琴","廖偉翔","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","王正旭","李彥秀","徐巧芯","涂權吉","羅廷瑋","陳玉珍","柯建銘","傅崐萁","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","陳瑩","林淑芬","陳培瑜","賴士葆","郭昱晴","范雲","黃國昌","牛煦庭","吳春城","顏寬恒","沈伯洋","林德福","陳冠廷","張雅琳","葉元之","羅智強"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2024-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部、內政部警政署就「社會安全網推動情形及策進作為」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150046","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150046","tool":"pyannote","id":"150046-pyannote"},"job_id":"Fezz9Gf2BsdDcaTg","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:00:50,059\n衛福部的根據官網職責是在中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導監督和協調的責任這個沒錯吧\n\n3\n00:00:54,163 --> 00:01:20,475\n所以我想這件事情第一線的機構地方政府當然是很有責任可是中央我想你們之前也有聲明過有明確的監督指導協調的責任我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您全國除了衛生是您督導全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導沒錯吧\n\n4\n00:01:22,168 --> 00:01:45,186\n那因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明我看到新聞都是次長李立芬跟社工司長蘇司長在回應我想請問您個人這次社工被上手銬的事件您個人有什麼看法這一個部分的話當然個案是否有刑事上的責任這個我們近代這個調查之後我們先不以置評\n\n5\n00:01:46,147 --> 00:02:09,046\n但是對於我們全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力讓整個國家的這個社會安全網能夠維持住對我們是非常的感激的那至於說這個過程當中有這樣上手銬的做法的話我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討\n\n6\n00:02:11,008 --> 00:02:14,715\n所以你也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎?對,他們已經做了檢討那我是想請問,就是說衛福部下一頁\n\n7\n00:02:22,049 --> 00:02:46,420\n衛福部就是為我們第一線社工做了哪些事因為其實社工的工作有非常多的暴力行為的當事人他是個高風險的工作以我這邊就是網路上這次事件之後社工講到自己的安全的時候譬如說有一位就講找警察供訪警察叫社工先深入險境警察在外面等\n\n8\n00:02:47,480 --> 00:03:10,797\n還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡家訪完被黑衣人圍毆所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人那我想請問就是說您作為部長您知道雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到\n\n9\n00:03:11,457 --> 00:03:26,462\n得請求警察,因為這是你們自己中央裡面有寫的,可是警察也可以拒絕,不完全配合,因為我查到的是,高雄台中市政府也是只有寫得,卻沒有寫警察一定得配合\n\n10\n00:03:27,102 --> 00:03:48,291\n高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫被請求之機關應與配合很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關的配合的時候那我只看到當然我沒有把全國都找完了可是衛福部作為這個中央的部分似乎在這個部分還相對的不足這是第一個我想講的\n\n11\n00:03:48,951 --> 00:04:09,422\n可是你看到就是說這次因為這個創傷那社工的一些臉書上就請大家來分享各自的創傷那這邊是我們的辦公室找了幾個一位是自殺防治的社工談完之後對方就跳下去了然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場那另一位呢\n\n12\n00:04:10,522 --> 00:04:33,361\n是服務一位開瓦斯自殺的社工,後來他也是不斷地哭,哪裡沒做好,不斷地指責自己。那這邊右上方是一位,是說他讓新生兒就是被從母親身旁帶走,因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩,但是後來這位母親就是相對人,就自殺了。\n\n13\n00:04:34,542 --> 00:04:55,435\n這位社工也活在懷疑自己的決定安置小孩是不是對的母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩以死捍衛自己的清白最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件上銬被帶走案主走之前還跟他揮手道別所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好\n\n14\n00:04:56,455 --> 00:05:07,321\n導致案主出事所以我想部長並不會反對就是說社工的工作其實面對到非常多的創傷已經有很多的自責部長不反對吧\n\n15\n00:05:08,984 --> 00:05:30,837\n其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例當然都是案例可是我們隨便找找這次事件之後就有人這麼多分享我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解到據說衛福部如果是社福的主管機關那社工是社安網的最基層的勞工他們面臨到的是一個保護很少\n\n16\n00:05:32,257 --> 00:05:50,686\n創傷跟自責很多的工作所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12號就是社工上課那天叫做社工集體創傷日那他們馬上社工工會就要來衛福部門口抗議了所以我想請問就是部長\n\n17\n00:05:51,366 --> 00:05:51,586\n有什麼對策?\n\n18\n00:06:19,322 --> 00:06:40,982\n對策就面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷那第一個就是說對於社工職員他的業務的時候那缺乏保護的這一個部分的話我們會再跟警政單位再來做一個協調我們希望這個協助是更有效率的\n\n19\n00:06:41,783 --> 00:07:01,432\n所以第一點你們自己中央的手冊方面就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嗎?不是像社工看到的還說社工你先進去我在外面等你那社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎?不可能嗎?所以這個部分的SOP就必須要檢討修正\n\n20\n00:07:04,653 --> 00:07:28,212\n那其他的社工的創傷也很多這些都不講待遇了這部分的話當然我們是希望就是說能夠把大家把它整合起來因為這方面的話那集體的一些所謂的創傷那要去宣洩出來那我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做\n\n21\n00:07:29,873 --> 00:07:51,160\n第三部分對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持這個支持除了原單位裡面可能會有督導這樣的一個系統來做支持之外我們希望就是說我們未來在\n\n22\n00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,101\n我剛聽到三點嘛第一個針對警察應協助社工的部分你們會去修改相關的中央的規定指引\n\n23\n00:08:15,671 --> 00:08:27,207\n社工的創傷你們會有相關的輔導跟服務第三點你們這個系統的部分也會檢視我想要盡快的邀我們全國的社工一起來聽聽他們的集體的心聲那我是覺得還非常不夠啦\n\n24\n00:08:30,772 --> 00:08:54,651\n為什麼今天要請部長您來答因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導社福總是次長在領導我會認為就是您部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利尤其是我們基層的社安網的勞工的心聲如果連社工都大幅出走的話那我很難想像我們社安網如何給民眾信心好不好\n\n25\n00:08:55,771 --> 00:09:03,714\n拜託部長,可不可以給我辦公室一個報告,好嗎?剛剛您承諾的那幾點,當然還可以有更多。可以齁,那多久會給我一個報告?兩個禮拜。兩個禮拜,好,謝謝部長,加油,謝謝。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5311\t8772\t有請部長有請薛部長部長午安我想我們從早上到下午這個虐因致死的悲劇讓整個社會都很震驚我們也檢討了非常多我其實是想先請問部長您是哪一個部的部長\n35061\t50059\t衛福部的根據官網職責是在中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導監督和協調的責任這個沒錯吧\n54163\t80475\t所以我想這件事情第一線的機構地方政府當然是很有責任可是中央我想你們之前也有聲明過有明確的監督指導協調的責任我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您全國除了衛生是您督導全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導沒錯吧\n82168\t105186\t那因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明我看到新聞都是次長李立芬跟社工司長蘇司長在回應我想請問您個人這次社工被上手銬的事件您個人有什麼看法這一個部分的話當然個案是否有刑事上的責任這個我們近代這個調查之後我們先不以置評\n106147\t129046\t但是對於我們全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力讓整個國家的這個社會安全網能夠維持住對我們是非常的感激的那至於說這個過程當中有這樣上手銬的做法的話我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討\n131008\t134715\t所以你也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎?對,他們已經做了檢討那我是想請問,就是說衛福部下一頁\n142049\t166420\t衛福部就是為我們第一線社工做了哪些事因為其實社工的工作有非常多的暴力行為的當事人他是個高風險的工作以我這邊就是網路上這次事件之後社工講到自己的安全的時候譬如說有一位就講找警察供訪警察叫社工先深入險境警察在外面等\n167480\t190797\t還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡家訪完被黑衣人圍毆所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人那我想請問就是說您作為部長您知道雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到\n191457\t206462\t得請求警察,因為這是你們自己中央裡面有寫的,可是警察也可以拒絕,不完全配合,因為我查到的是,高雄台中市政府也是只有寫得,卻沒有寫警察一定得配合\n207102\t228291\t高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫被請求之機關應與配合很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關的配合的時候那我只看到當然我沒有把全國都找完了可是衛福部作為這個中央的部分似乎在這個部分還相對的不足這是第一個我想講的\n228951\t249422\t可是你看到就是說這次因為這個創傷那社工的一些臉書上就請大家來分享各自的創傷那這邊是我們的辦公室找了幾個一位是自殺防治的社工談完之後對方就跳下去了然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場那另一位呢\n250522\t273361\t是服務一位開瓦斯自殺的社工,後來他也是不斷地哭,哪裡沒做好,不斷地指責自己。那這邊右上方是一位,是說他讓新生兒就是被從母親身旁帶走,因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩,但是後來這位母親就是相對人,就自殺了。\n274542\t295435\t這位社工也活在懷疑自己的決定安置小孩是不是對的母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩以死捍衛自己的清白最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件上銬被帶走案主走之前還跟他揮手道別所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好\n296455\t307321\t導致案主出事所以我想部長並不會反對就是說社工的工作其實面對到非常多的創傷已經有很多的自責部長不反對吧\n308984\t330837\t其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例當然都是案例可是我們隨便找找這次事件之後就有人這麼多分享我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解到據說衛福部如果是社福的主管機關那社工是社安網的最基層的勞工他們面臨到的是一個保護很少\n332257\t350686\t創傷跟自責很多的工作所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12號就是社工上課那天叫做社工集體創傷日那他們馬上社工工會就要來衛福部門口抗議了所以我想請問就是部長\n351366\t351586\t有什麼對策?\n379322\t400982\t對策就面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷那第一個就是說對於社工職員他的業務的時候那缺乏保護的這一個部分的話我們會再跟警政單位再來做一個協調我們希望這個協助是更有效率的\n401783\t421432\t所以第一點你們自己中央的手冊方面就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嗎?不是像社工看到的還說社工你先進去我在外面等你那社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎?不可能嗎?所以這個部分的SOP就必須要檢討修正\n424653\t448212\t那其他的社工的創傷也很多這些都不講待遇了這部分的話當然我們是希望就是說能夠把大家把它整合起來因為這方面的話那集體的一些所謂的創傷那要去宣洩出來那我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做\n449873\t471160\t第三部分對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持這個支持除了原單位裡面可能會有督導這樣的一個系統來做支持之外我們希望就是說我們未來在\n471920\t475101\t我剛聽到三點嘛第一個針對警察應協助社工的部分你們會去修改相關的中央的規定指引\n495671\t507207\t社工的創傷你們會有相關的輔導跟服務第三點你們這個系統的部分也會檢視我想要盡快的邀我們全國的社工一起來聽聽他們的集體的心聲那我是覺得還非常不夠啦\n510772\t534651\t為什麼今天要請部長您來答因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導社福總是次長在領導我會認為就是您部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利尤其是我們基層的社安網的勞工的心聲如果連社工都大幅出走的話那我很難想像我們社安網如何給民眾信心好不好\n535771\t543714\t拜託部長,可不可以給我辦公室一個報告,好嗎?剛剛您承諾的那幾點,當然還可以有更多。可以齁,那多久會給我一個報告?兩個禮拜。兩個禮拜,好,謝謝部長,加油,謝謝。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"有請部長有請薛部長部長午安我想我們從早上到下午這個虐因致死的悲劇讓整個社會都很震驚我們也檢討了非常多我其實是想先請問部長您是哪一個部的部長\n衛福部的根據官網職責是在中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導監督和協調的責任這個沒錯吧\n所以我想這件事情第一線的機構地方政府當然是很有責任可是中央我想你們之前也有聲明過有明確的監督指導協調的責任我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您全國除了衛生是您督導全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導沒錯吧\n那因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明我看到新聞都是次長李立芬跟社工司長蘇司長在回應我想請問您個人這次社工被上手銬的事件您個人有什麼看法這一個部分的話當然個案是否有刑事上的責任這個我們近代這個調查之後我們先不以置評\n但是對於我們全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力讓整個國家的這個社會安全網能夠維持住對我們是非常的感激的那至於說這個過程當中有這樣上手銬的做法的話我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討\n所以你也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎?對,他們已經做了檢討那我是想請問,就是說衛福部下一頁\n衛福部就是為我們第一線社工做了哪些事因為其實社工的工作有非常多的暴力行為的當事人他是個高風險的工作以我這邊就是網路上這次事件之後社工講到自己的安全的時候譬如說有一位就講找警察供訪警察叫社工先深入險境警察在外面等\n還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡家訪完被黑衣人圍毆所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人那我想請問就是說您作為部長您知道雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到\n得請求警察,因為這是你們自己中央裡面有寫的,可是警察也可以拒絕,不完全配合,因為我查到的是,高雄台中市政府也是只有寫得,卻沒有寫警察一定得配合\n高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫被請求之機關應與配合很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關的配合的時候那我只看到當然我沒有把全國都找完了可是衛福部作為這個中央的部分似乎在這個部分還相對的不足這是第一個我想講的\n可是你看到就是說這次因為這個創傷那社工的一些臉書上就請大家來分享各自的創傷那這邊是我們的辦公室找了幾個一位是自殺防治的社工談完之後對方就跳下去了然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場那另一位呢\n是服務一位開瓦斯自殺的社工,後來他也是不斷地哭,哪裡沒做好,不斷地指責自己。那這邊右上方是一位,是說他讓新生兒就是被從母親身旁帶走,因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩,但是後來這位母親就是相對人,就自殺了。\n這位社工也活在懷疑自己的決定安置小孩是不是對的母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩以死捍衛自己的清白最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件上銬被帶走案主走之前還跟他揮手道別所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好\n導致案主出事所以我想部長並不會反對就是說社工的工作其實面對到非常多的創傷已經有很多的自責部長不反對吧\n其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例當然都是案例可是我們隨便找找這次事件之後就有人這麼多分享我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解到據說衛福部如果是社福的主管機關那社工是社安網的最基層的勞工他們面臨到的是一個保護很少\n創傷跟自責很多的工作所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12號就是社工上課那天叫做社工集體創傷日那他們馬上社工工會就要來衛福部門口抗議了所以我想請問就是部長\n有什麼對策?\n對策就面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷那第一個就是說對於社工職員他的業務的時候那缺乏保護的這一個部分的話我們會再跟警政單位再來做一個協調我們希望這個協助是更有效率的\n所以第一點你們自己中央的手冊方面就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嗎?不是像社工看到的還說社工你先進去我在外面等你那社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎?不可能嗎?所以這個部分的SOP就必須要檢討修正\n那其他的社工的創傷也很多這些都不講待遇了這部分的話當然我們是希望就是說能夠把大家把它整合起來因為這方面的話那集體的一些所謂的創傷那要去宣洩出來那我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做\n第三部分對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持這個支持除了原單位裡面可能會有督導這樣的一個系統來做支持之外我們希望就是說我們未來在\n我剛聽到三點嘛第一個針對警察應協助社工的部分你們會去修改相關的中央的規定指引\n社工的創傷你們會有相關的輔導跟服務第三點你們這個系統的部分也會檢視我想要盡快的邀我們全國的社工一起來聽聽他們的集體的心聲那我是覺得還非常不夠啦\n為什麼今天要請部長您來答因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導社福總是次長在領導我會認為就是您部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利尤其是我們基層的社安網的勞工的心聲如果連社工都大幅出走的話那我很難想像我們社安網如何給民眾信心好不好\n拜託部長,可不可以給我辦公室一個報告,好嗎?剛剛您承諾的那幾點,當然還可以有更多。可以齁,那多久會給我一個報告?兩個禮拜。兩個禮拜,好,謝謝部長,加油,謝謝。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.311 --> 00:08.772\n有請部長有請薛部長部長午安我想我們從早上到下午這個虐因致死的悲劇讓整個社會都很震驚我們也檢討了非常多我其實是想先請問部長您是哪一個部的部長\n\n00:35.061 --> 00:50.059\n衛福部的根據官網職責是在中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導監督和協調的責任這個沒錯吧\n\n00:54.163 --> 01:20.475\n所以我想這件事情第一線的機構地方政府當然是很有責任可是中央我想你們之前也有聲明過有明確的監督指導協調的責任我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您全國除了衛生是您督導全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導沒錯吧\n\n01:22.168 --> 01:45.186\n那因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明我看到新聞都是次長李立芬跟社工司長蘇司長在回應我想請問您個人這次社工被上手銬的事件您個人有什麼看法這一個部分的話當然個案是否有刑事上的責任這個我們近代這個調查之後我們先不以置評\n\n01:46.147 --> 02:09.046\n但是對於我們全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力讓整個國家的這個社會安全網能夠維持住對我們是非常的感激的那至於說這個過程當中有這樣上手銬的做法的話我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討\n\n02:11.008 --> 02:14.715\n所以你也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎?對,他們已經做了檢討那我是想請問,就是說衛福部下一頁\n\n02:22.049 --> 02:46.420\n衛福部就是為我們第一線社工做了哪些事因為其實社工的工作有非常多的暴力行為的當事人他是個高風險的工作以我這邊就是網路上這次事件之後社工講到自己的安全的時候譬如說有一位就講找警察供訪警察叫社工先深入險境警察在外面等\n\n02:47.480 --> 03:10.797\n還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡家訪完被黑衣人圍毆所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人那我想請問就是說您作為部長您知道雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到\n\n03:11.457 --> 03:26.462\n得請求警察,因為這是你們自己中央裡面有寫的,可是警察也可以拒絕,不完全配合,因為我查到的是,高雄台中市政府也是只有寫得,卻沒有寫警察一定得配合\n\n03:27.102 --> 03:48.291\n高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫被請求之機關應與配合很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關的配合的時候那我只看到當然我沒有把全國都找完了可是衛福部作為這個中央的部分似乎在這個部分還相對的不足這是第一個我想講的\n\n03:48.951 --> 04:09.422\n可是你看到就是說這次因為這個創傷那社工的一些臉書上就請大家來分享各自的創傷那這邊是我們的辦公室找了幾個一位是自殺防治的社工談完之後對方就跳下去了然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場那另一位呢\n\n04:10.522 --> 04:33.361\n是服務一位開瓦斯自殺的社工,後來他也是不斷地哭,哪裡沒做好,不斷地指責自己。那這邊右上方是一位,是說他讓新生兒就是被從母親身旁帶走,因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩,但是後來這位母親就是相對人,就自殺了。\n\n04:34.542 --> 04:55.435\n這位社工也活在懷疑自己的決定安置小孩是不是對的母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩以死捍衛自己的清白最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件上銬被帶走案主走之前還跟他揮手道別所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好\n\n04:56.455 --> 05:07.321\n導致案主出事所以我想部長並不會反對就是說社工的工作其實面對到非常多的創傷已經有很多的自責部長不反對吧\n\n05:08.984 --> 05:30.837\n其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例當然都是案例可是我們隨便找找這次事件之後就有人這麼多分享我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解到據說衛福部如果是社福的主管機關那社工是社安網的最基層的勞工他們面臨到的是一個保護很少\n\n05:32.257 --> 05:50.686\n創傷跟自責很多的工作所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12號就是社工上課那天叫做社工集體創傷日那他們馬上社工工會就要來衛福部門口抗議了所以我想請問就是部長\n\n05:51.366 --> 05:51.586\n有什麼對策?\n\n06:19.322 --> 06:40.982\n對策就面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷那第一個就是說對於社工職員他的業務的時候那缺乏保護的這一個部分的話我們會再跟警政單位再來做一個協調我們希望這個協助是更有效率的\n\n06:41.783 --> 07:01.432\n所以第一點你們自己中央的手冊方面就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嗎?不是像社工看到的還說社工你先進去我在外面等你那社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎?不可能嗎?所以這個部分的SOP就必須要檢討修正\n\n07:04.653 --> 07:28.212\n那其他的社工的創傷也很多這些都不講待遇了這部分的話當然我們是希望就是說能夠把大家把它整合起來因為這方面的話那集體的一些所謂的創傷那要去宣洩出來那我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做\n\n07:29.873 --> 07:51.160\n第三部分對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持這個支持除了原單位裡面可能會有督導這樣的一個系統來做支持之外我們希望就是說我們未來在\n\n07:51.920 --> 07:55.101\n我剛聽到三點嘛第一個針對警察應協助社工的部分你們會去修改相關的中央的規定指引\n\n08:15.671 --> 08:27.207\n社工的創傷你們會有相關的輔導跟服務第三點你們這個系統的部分也會檢視我想要盡快的邀我們全國的社工一起來聽聽他們的集體的心聲那我是覺得還非常不夠啦\n\n08:30.772 --> 08:54.651\n為什麼今天要請部長您來答因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導社福總是次長在領導我會認為就是您部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利尤其是我們基層的社安網的勞工的心聲如果連社工都大幅出走的話那我很難想像我們社安網如何給民眾信心好不好\n\n08:55.771 --> 09:03.714\n拜託部長,可不可以給我辦公室一個報告,好嗎?剛剛您承諾的那幾點,當然還可以有更多。可以齁,那多久會給我一個報告?兩個禮拜。兩個禮拜,好,謝謝部長,加油,謝謝。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.311,"end":8.772,"text":"有請部長有請薛部長部長午安我想我們從早上到下午這個虐因致死的悲劇讓整個社會都很震驚我們也檢討了非常多我其實是想先請問部長您是哪一個部的部長"},{"start":35.061,"end":50.059,"text":"衛福部的根據官網職責是在中央衛生福利部為我國最高衛生及社會福利行政機關負責全國衛生及社會福利行政事務並對各級地方衛生及社會福利機關負有業務指導監督和協調的責任這個沒錯吧"},{"start":54.163,"end":80.475,"text":"所以我想這件事情第一線的機構地方政府當然是很有責任可是中央我想你們之前也有聲明過有明確的監督指導協調的責任我今天主要是針對社工的事情想請問您全國除了衛生是您督導全國社會福利事務責任上也是由您總督導沒錯吧"},{"start":82.168,"end":105.186,"text":"那因為衛福部3月13號有三點聲明我看到新聞都是次長李立芬跟社工司長蘇司長在回應我想請問您個人這次社工被上手銬的事件您個人有什麼看法這一個部分的話當然個案是否有刑事上的責任這個我們近代這個調查之後我們先不以置評"},{"start":106.147,"end":129.046,"text":"但是對於我們全國的社工在他們的工作上面所做的努力讓整個國家的這個社會安全網能夠維持住對我們是非常的感激的那至於說這個過程當中有這樣上手銬的做法的話我想警政機關也已經做出了檢討"},{"start":131.008,"end":134.715,"text":"所以你也覺得警政機關應該檢討嗎?對,他們已經做了檢討那我是想請問,就是說衛福部下一頁"},{"start":142.049,"end":166.42,"text":"衛福部就是為我們第一線社工做了哪些事因為其實社工的工作有非常多的暴力行為的當事人他是個高風險的工作以我這邊就是網路上這次事件之後社工講到自己的安全的時候譬如說有一位就講找警察供訪警察叫社工先深入險境警察在外面等"},{"start":167.48,"end":190.797,"text":"還有就是家暴的時候被相對人反鎖在家裡家訪完被黑衣人圍毆所以其實社工本身常常會面對出現暴力行為的當事人那我想請問就是說您作為部長您知道雖然衛福部的相關的安全指引有講到"},{"start":191.457,"end":206.462,"text":"得請求警察,因為這是你們自己中央裡面有寫的,可是警察也可以拒絕,不完全配合,因為我查到的是,高雄台中市政府也是只有寫得,卻沒有寫警察一定得配合"},{"start":207.102,"end":228.291,"text":"高雄市政府是我找到裡面有寫被請求之機關應與配合很明確的說當社工得請求警察機關的配合的時候那我只看到當然我沒有把全國都找完了可是衛福部作為這個中央的部分似乎在這個部分還相對的不足這是第一個我想講的"},{"start":228.951,"end":249.422,"text":"可是你看到就是說這次因為這個創傷那社工的一些臉書上就請大家來分享各自的創傷那這邊是我們的辦公室找了幾個一位是自殺防治的社工談完之後對方就跳下去了然後他的創傷是沒能把對方留到警察到現場那另一位呢"},{"start":250.522,"end":273.361,"text":"是服務一位開瓦斯自殺的社工,後來他也是不斷地哭,哪裡沒做好,不斷地指責自己。那這邊右上方是一位,是說他讓新生兒就是被從母親身旁帶走,因為擔心母親是不是有虐待小孩,但是後來這位母親就是相對人,就自殺了。"},{"start":274.542,"end":295.435,"text":"這位社工也活在懷疑自己的決定安置小孩是不是對的母親是不是其實沒有虐待小孩以死捍衛自己的清白最後一位是他的案主後來涉入刑事案件上銬被帶走案主走之前還跟他揮手道別所以他也很自責是不是自己做得不夠好"},{"start":296.455,"end":307.321,"text":"導致案主出事所以我想部長並不會反對就是說社工的工作其實面對到非常多的創傷已經有很多的自責部長不反對吧"},{"start":308.984,"end":330.837,"text":"其實這些都是一些遺憾的案例當然都是案例可是我們隨便找找這次事件之後就有人這麼多分享我要講的事情是我希望部長可以了解到據說衛福部如果是社福的主管機關那社工是社安網的最基層的勞工他們面臨到的是一個保護很少"},{"start":332.257,"end":350.686,"text":"創傷跟自責很多的工作所以現在社工已經自主的把3月12號就是社工上課那天叫做社工集體創傷日那他們馬上社工工會就要來衛福部門口抗議了所以我想請問就是部長"},{"start":351.366,"end":351.586,"text":"有什麼對策?"},{"start":379.322,"end":400.982,"text":"對策就面對我們安全網最基層的勞工現在的這個集體創傷那第一個就是說對於社工職員他的業務的時候那缺乏保護的這一個部分的話我們會再跟警政單位再來做一個協調我們希望這個協助是更有效率的"},{"start":401.783,"end":421.432,"text":"所以第一點你們自己中央的手冊方面就應該要白紙黑字寫警察機關必須要配合嗎?不是像社工看到的還說社工你先進去我在外面等你那社工有權利要求他陪他進去嗎?不可能嗎?所以這個部分的SOP就必須要檢討修正"},{"start":424.653,"end":448.212,"text":"那其他的社工的創傷也很多這些都不講待遇了這部分的話當然我們是希望就是說能夠把大家把它整合起來因為這方面的話那集體的一些所謂的創傷那要去宣洩出來那我們應該有提供這樣子一個管道可以來做"},{"start":449.873,"end":471.16,"text":"第三部分對於社工在執行業務所發生的一些事情、一些困難需要有支持這個支持除了原單位裡面可能會有督導這樣的一個系統來做支持之外我們希望就是說我們未來在"},{"start":471.92,"end":475.101,"text":"我剛聽到三點嘛第一個針對警察應協助社工的部分你們會去修改相關的中央的規定指引"},{"start":495.671,"end":507.207,"text":"社工的創傷你們會有相關的輔導跟服務第三點你們這個系統的部分也會檢視我想要盡快的邀我們全國的社工一起來聽聽他們的集體的心聲那我是覺得還非常不夠啦"},{"start":510.772,"end":534.651,"text":"為什麼今天要請部長您來答因為我們衛福部長期以衛生為主導社福總是次長在領導我會認為就是您部長應該要更花心思出來理解我們社會福利尤其是我們基層的社安網的勞工的心聲如果連社工都大幅出走的話那我很難想像我們社安網如何給民眾信心好不好"},{"start":535.771,"end":543.714,"text":"拜託部長,可不可以給我辦公室一個報告,好嗎?剛剛您承諾的那幾點,當然還可以有更多。可以齁,那多久會給我一個報告?兩個禮拜。兩個禮拜,好,謝謝部長,加油,謝謝。好,謝謝。"}]}}}}