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{\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 532.847, \"end\": 533.047, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"昌\", \"start\": 533.047, \"end\": 533.187, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 533.187, \"end\": 533.207, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.207, \"end\": 533.227, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,341 --> 00:00:16,343\n謝謝主席有請部長好來部長請委員好\n\n2\n00:00:23,642 --> 00:00:51,449\n部長其實發生這樣的悲劇我相信大家看了都很難過但更重要的事情是我們真的很認真的來看現在到底發生了什麼狀況我們社會安全網的強化第一期計畫、第二期計畫部長你會不會覺得很奇怪為什麼兒少受虐的人數其實不減反正\n\n3\n00:00:53,582 --> 00:01:03,509\n這個部分應該是通報吧當然我們鼓勵通報也會讓這個本來是在黑樹的地方的這些案件量會跑出來\n\n4\n00:01:06,099 --> 00:01:29,710\n就齁這個是通報數碼就實際的數目我們可能未來有機會一樣一樣來去比但是呢這一次發生這樣的悲劇我必須要跟部長說就讓我想到2019年的時候其實一模一樣的報告在這個辦公室在這個會議室其實有做過那個時候我們檢討了非常多的事情\n\n5\n00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:59,249\n看到說多數兒孽的案件施孽者是父母或實際照顧的人但這次衛福部在處理這件事情的時候我之前公開了記者會其實我有想要公開請教一下部長就是我看不懂的事情是說衛福部認為說這個保母不是實際的照顧者因為如果是這樣解釋的話我非常擔心我們的兒少法整個規範體系會崩盤那這樣子的解釋部長您認同嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:00,530 --> 00:02:24,751\n我不認同你不認同嗎對我不認同那或許未來可能部長回去找一下就是請衛福部的官員在面對外界質疑的時候誠實的面對問題因為想要透過法條扭曲的解釋不僅沒有辦法解決問題只會造成更大的問題部長您同意嗎\n\n7\n00:02:25,431 --> 00:02:52,281\n對,所以在我們今天的這個檢討報告裡面有特別就這一點因為這個是長久以來在社政的單位裡面他們因為分工的非常細所以一碰到問題第一個要想說這是屬於誰要負責我們吼先不是以這個個案為重心我們以法論法啦而造法施行細則有把它限定在說實際照顧者只限於家庭內嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:54,308 --> 00:03:21,508\n這個是在講的是102條的在講是嘛但我們現在在講的是49條跟53條嘛所以這樣子給媒體的訊息絕對是錯誤的訊息嘛錯誤的訊息錯了我肯定部長在這邊沒有要凹沒有要聞過是非錯了就錯了嘛好接下來讓我另外一個覺得非常困惑的事情是說\n\n9\n00:03:22,918 --> 00:03:44,501\n前面說是施行細則現於家庭內後來這個說法被戳破了以後改變另外一個說法說因為通報的時候孩童已經死亡配合檢警調查所以沒有按額內的處理程序來加以處理對於這樣子的說法部長你同意嗎?我不同意\n\n10\n00:03:45,262 --> 00:03:46,483\n我們當時的講法是說為什麼沒有召開額內的重大\n\n11\n00:04:07,324 --> 00:04:07,344\n因為齁當\n\n12\n00:04:35,979 --> 00:04:49,329\n這件事情發生的時候全體國人都在看衛福部的態度我們在開記者會的時候地方政府有錯就像黃珊珊委員講的臺北市你們自己就是當事人推什麼推啊\n\n13\n00:04:50,168 --> 00:05:06,462\n但我們在國會要監督的是中央的部門中央的部門在面對這些問題的態度的時候我們不希望看到透過法條的扭曲我們也不希望看到透過一些莫名其妙的理由想要來文過是非\n\n14\n00:05:07,523 --> 00:05:29,274\n部長我帶您看這個是2022年的時候臺中市政府針對那個時候也是外界質疑發生額內事件的時候他們沒有處理好臺中市政府他們給臺中市議會的調查報告部長我建議你我現在不是在吹捧盧秀燕\n\n15\n00:05:30,214 --> 00:05:59,241\n我是很持平的看您回去看齁臺中市政府給臺中市議會的這份報告從內容的檢討到究責而且已給剪掉了已給剪掉他們提內容的檢討跟究責跟偵查不公開一點關係也沒有也沒有尾一倍我希望啦齁最起碼我們的衛福部未來在出報告的時候不要連地方政府出的報告都比不上\n\n16\n00:06:00,462 --> 00:06:15,352\n委員這之前的報告是內容比較簡略其實是因為時間的關係那至於剛剛委員提到這一個刑事調查的過程其實不妨礙行政調查因為他的目的是不一樣的\n\n17\n00:06:15,492 --> 00:06:30,594\n部長你說這樣的話我非常的認同啊終於有一個法律人站在備詢台上說實話了刑事司法的調查跟行政的調查是沒有相互衝突的嘛好很好\n\n18\n00:06:33,837 --> 00:07:01,663\n第二個問題是我要follow我上一次請教部長的問題蘇丹紅的事件我在這邊跟您說說你輸入的時間要公告你當天也給我承諾了嘛部長對吧我的記憶沒有錯啊你當天給我承諾啦說要公告啊但很奇怪啊我上去衛福部食藥署的網站蘇丹紅不合格專區還是沒有輸入的時間啊\n\n19\n00:07:04,039 --> 00:07:19,319\n您答應我那食藥署不做是上令下面可以不服從嗎因為我相信部長不會騙我啊你答應我說輸入的時間當然要公開透明讓大家知道啊啊怎麼現在專區還沒有\n\n20\n00:07:21,444 --> 00:07:45,803\n這個我再確定一下因為這邊有寫說檢驗結果的日期這個是跟輸入的日期是否一致不一樣我現在可以直接跟部長講不一樣那如果是這樣的話那就少了一個來源因為我為什麼一直在追輸入的日期下一張我馬上就秀答案給部長看因為那時候部長說我們2023年12月11號已經開始逐批查驗了\n\n21\n00:07:50,186 --> 00:08:12,881\n之前我在問高雄的公司的時候我覺得很奇怪竹坯茶園怎麼進得來您說那個是在竹坯茶園之前嘛但部長請您看一下我為什麼要追進口的進來的時間你有沒有看到啊在保興公司裡面有2024年1月2號跟2月17號1月2號跟2月17號那個是在竹坯茶園之後喔\n\n22\n00:08:16,582 --> 00:08:30,059\n那問題就來了啊那既然都已經逐批查驗了怎麼在逐批查驗之後進來的還會被驗出來那不是在海關就要攔截了嗎部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道我知道\n\n23\n00:08:31,856 --> 00:08:49,871\n這是什麼狀況?這我再釐清一下看看好那個齁請部長齁就是說既然已經逐批查驗逐批查驗給我們所有的消費者的信心就是說我們的政府在海關做好把關了嘛那顯然不是這個樣子啊逐批查驗了竟然還進來這個這個是什麼狀況?\n\n24\n00:08:52,847 --> 00:08:53,227\n我們謝謝黃國昌委員的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14341\t16343\t謝謝主席 有請部長好 來部長請委員好\n23642\t51449\t部長其實發生這樣的悲劇我相信大家看了都很難過但更重要的事情是我們真的很認真的來看現在到底發生了什麼狀況我們社會安全網的強化第一期計畫、第二期計畫部長你會不會覺得很奇怪為什麼兒少受虐的人數其實不減反正\n53582\t63509\t這個部分應該是通報吧當然我們鼓勵通報也會讓這個本來是在黑樹的地方的這些案件量會跑出來\n66099\t89710\t就齁這個是通報數碼就實際的數目我們可能未來有機會一樣一樣來去比但是呢這一次發生這樣的悲劇我必須要跟部長說就讓我想到2019年的時候其實一模一樣的報告在這個辦公室在這個會議室其實有做過那個時候我們檢討了非常多的事情\n90450\t119249\t看到說多數兒孽的案件施孽者是父母或實際照顧的人但這次衛福部在處理這件事情的時候我之前公開了記者會其實我有想要公開請教一下部長就是我看不懂的事情是說衛福部認為說這個保母不是實際的照顧者因為如果是這樣解釋的話我非常擔心我們的兒少法整個規範體系會崩盤那這樣子的解釋部長您認同嗎?\n120530\t144751\t我不認同你不認同嗎對我不認同那或許未來可能部長回去找一下就是請衛福部的官員在面對外界質疑的時候誠實的面對問題因為想要透過法條扭曲的解釋不僅沒有辦法解決問題只會造成更大的問題部長您同意嗎\n145431\t172281\t對,所以在我們今天的這個檢討報告裡面有特別就這一點因為這個是長久以來在社政的單位裡面他們因為分工的非常細所以一碰到問題第一個要想說這是屬於誰要負責我們吼先不是以這個個案為重心我們以法論法啦而造法施行細則有把它限定在說實際照顧者只限於家庭內嗎?\n174308\t201508\t這個是在講的是102條的在講是嘛但我們現在在講的是49條跟53條嘛所以這樣子給媒體的訊息絕對是錯誤的訊息嘛錯誤的訊息錯了我肯定部長在這邊沒有要凹沒有要聞過是非錯了就錯了嘛好接下來讓我另外一個覺得非常困惑的事情是說\n202918\t224501\t前面說是施行細則現於家庭內後來這個說法被戳破了以後改變另外一個說法說因為通報的時候孩童已經死亡配合檢警調查所以沒有按額內的處理程序來加以處理對於這樣子的說法部長你同意嗎?我不同意\n225262\t226483\t我們當時的講法是說為什麼沒有召開額內的重大\n247324\t247344\t因為齁當\n275979\t289329\t這件事情發生的時候全體國人都在看衛福部的態度我們在開記者會的時候地方政府有錯就像黃珊珊委員講的臺北市你們自己就是當事人推什麼推啊\n290168\t306462\t但我們在國會要監督的是中央的部門中央的部門在面對這些問題的態度的時候我們不希望看到透過法條的扭曲我們也不希望看到透過一些莫名其妙的理由想要來文過是非\n307523\t329274\t部長我帶您看這個是2022年的時候臺中市政府針對那個時候也是外界質疑發生額內事件的時候他們沒有處理好臺中市政府他們給臺中市議會的調查報告部長我建議你我現在不是在吹捧盧秀燕\n330214\t359241\t我是很持平的看您回去看齁臺中市政府給臺中市議會的這份報告從內容的檢討到究責而且已給剪掉了已給剪掉他們提內容的檢討跟究責跟偵查不公開一點關係也沒有也沒有尾一倍我希望啦齁最起碼我們的衛福部未來在出報告的時候不要連地方政府出的報告都比不上\n360462\t375352\t委員這之前的報告是內容比較簡略其實是因為時間的關係那至於剛剛委員提到這一個刑事調查的過程其實不妨礙行政調查因為他的目的是不一樣的\n375492\t390594\t部長你說這樣的話我非常的認同啊終於有一個法律人站在備詢台上說實話了刑事司法的調查跟行政的調查是沒有相互衝突的嘛好很好\n393837\t421663\t第二個問題是我要follow我上一次請教部長的問題蘇丹紅的事件我在這邊跟您說說你輸入的時間要公告你當天也給我承諾了嘛部長對吧我的記憶沒有錯啊你當天給我承諾啦說要公告啊但很奇怪啊我上去衛福部食藥署的網站蘇丹紅不合格專區還是沒有輸入的時間啊\n424039\t439319\t您答應我那食藥署不做是上令下面可以不服從嗎因為我相信部長不會騙我啊你答應我說輸入的時間當然要公開透明讓大家知道啊啊怎麼現在專區還沒有\n441444\t465803\t這個我再確定一下因為這邊有寫說檢驗結果的日期這個是跟輸入的日期是否一致不一樣我現在可以直接跟部長講不一樣那如果是這樣的話那就少了一個來源因為我為什麼一直在追輸入的日期下一張我馬上就秀答案給部長看因為那時候部長說我們2023年12月11號已經開始逐批查驗了\n470186\t492881\t之前我在問高雄的公司的時候我覺得很奇怪竹坯茶園怎麼進得來您說那個是在竹坯茶園之前嘛但部長請您看一下我為什麼要追進口的進來的時間你有沒有看到啊在保興公司裡面有2024年1月2號跟2月17號1月2號跟2月17號那個是在竹坯茶園之後喔\n496582\t510059\t那問題就來了啊那既然都已經逐批查驗了怎麼在逐批查驗之後進來的還會被驗出來那不是在海關就要攔截了嗎部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道我知道\n511856\t529871\t這是什麼狀況?這我再釐清一下看看好 那個齁請部長齁就是說既然已經逐批查驗逐批查驗給我們所有的消費者的信心就是說我們的政府在海關做好把關了嘛那顯然不是這個樣子啊逐批查驗了竟然還進來這個 這個是什麼狀況?\n532847\t533227\t我們謝謝黃國昌委員的\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長好 來部長請委員好\n部長其實發生這樣的悲劇我相信大家看了都很難過但更重要的事情是我們真的很認真的來看現在到底發生了什麼狀況我們社會安全網的強化第一期計畫、第二期計畫部長你會不會覺得很奇怪為什麼兒少受虐的人數其實不減反正\n這個部分應該是通報吧當然我們鼓勵通報也會讓這個本來是在黑樹的地方的這些案件量會跑出來\n就齁這個是通報數碼就實際的數目我們可能未來有機會一樣一樣來去比但是呢這一次發生這樣的悲劇我必須要跟部長說就讓我想到2019年的時候其實一模一樣的報告在這個辦公室在這個會議室其實有做過那個時候我們檢討了非常多的事情\n看到說多數兒孽的案件施孽者是父母或實際照顧的人但這次衛福部在處理這件事情的時候我之前公開了記者會其實我有想要公開請教一下部長就是我看不懂的事情是說衛福部認為說這個保母不是實際的照顧者因為如果是這樣解釋的話我非常擔心我們的兒少法整個規範體系會崩盤那這樣子的解釋部長您認同嗎?\n我不認同你不認同嗎對我不認同那或許未來可能部長回去找一下就是請衛福部的官員在面對外界質疑的時候誠實的面對問題因為想要透過法條扭曲的解釋不僅沒有辦法解決問題只會造成更大的問題部長您同意嗎\n對,所以在我們今天的這個檢討報告裡面有特別就這一點因為這個是長久以來在社政的單位裡面他們因為分工的非常細所以一碰到問題第一個要想說這是屬於誰要負責我們吼先不是以這個個案為重心我們以法論法啦而造法施行細則有把它限定在說實際照顧者只限於家庭內嗎?\n這個是在講的是102條的在講是嘛但我們現在在講的是49條跟53條嘛所以這樣子給媒體的訊息絕對是錯誤的訊息嘛錯誤的訊息錯了我肯定部長在這邊沒有要凹沒有要聞過是非錯了就錯了嘛好接下來讓我另外一個覺得非常困惑的事情是說\n前面說是施行細則現於家庭內後來這個說法被戳破了以後改變另外一個說法說因為通報的時候孩童已經死亡配合檢警調查所以沒有按額內的處理程序來加以處理對於這樣子的說法部長你同意嗎?我不同意\n我們當時的講法是說為什麼沒有召開額內的重大\n因為齁當\n這件事情發生的時候全體國人都在看衛福部的態度我們在開記者會的時候地方政府有錯就像黃珊珊委員講的臺北市你們自己就是當事人推什麼推啊\n但我們在國會要監督的是中央的部門中央的部門在面對這些問題的態度的時候我們不希望看到透過法條的扭曲我們也不希望看到透過一些莫名其妙的理由想要來文過是非\n部長我帶您看這個是2022年的時候臺中市政府針對那個時候也是外界質疑發生額內事件的時候他們沒有處理好臺中市政府他們給臺中市議會的調查報告部長我建議你我現在不是在吹捧盧秀燕\n我是很持平的看您回去看齁臺中市政府給臺中市議會的這份報告從內容的檢討到究責而且已給剪掉了已給剪掉他們提內容的檢討跟究責跟偵查不公開一點關係也沒有也沒有尾一倍我希望啦齁最起碼我們的衛福部未來在出報告的時候不要連地方政府出的報告都比不上\n委員這之前的報告是內容比較簡略其實是因為時間的關係那至於剛剛委員提到這一個刑事調查的過程其實不妨礙行政調查因為他的目的是不一樣的\n部長你說這樣的話我非常的認同啊終於有一個法律人站在備詢台上說實話了刑事司法的調查跟行政的調查是沒有相互衝突的嘛好很好\n第二個問題是我要follow我上一次請教部長的問題蘇丹紅的事件我在這邊跟您說說你輸入的時間要公告你當天也給我承諾了嘛部長對吧我的記憶沒有錯啊你當天給我承諾啦說要公告啊但很奇怪啊我上去衛福部食藥署的網站蘇丹紅不合格專區還是沒有輸入的時間啊\n您答應我那食藥署不做是上令下面可以不服從嗎因為我相信部長不會騙我啊你答應我說輸入的時間當然要公開透明讓大家知道啊啊怎麼現在專區還沒有\n這個我再確定一下因為這邊有寫說檢驗結果的日期這個是跟輸入的日期是否一致不一樣我現在可以直接跟部長講不一樣那如果是這樣的話那就少了一個來源因為我為什麼一直在追輸入的日期下一張我馬上就秀答案給部長看因為那時候部長說我們2023年12月11號已經開始逐批查驗了\n之前我在問高雄的公司的時候我覺得很奇怪竹坯茶園怎麼進得來您說那個是在竹坯茶園之前嘛但部長請您看一下我為什麼要追進口的進來的時間你有沒有看到啊在保興公司裡面有2024年1月2號跟2月17號1月2號跟2月17號那個是在竹坯茶園之後喔\n那問題就來了啊那既然都已經逐批查驗了怎麼在逐批查驗之後進來的還會被驗出來那不是在海關就要攔截了嗎部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道我知道\n這是什麼狀況?這我再釐清一下看看好 那個齁請部長齁就是說既然已經逐批查驗逐批查驗給我們所有的消費者的信心就是說我們的政府在海關做好把關了嘛那顯然不是這個樣子啊逐批查驗了竟然還進來這個 這個是什麼狀況?\n我們謝謝黃國昌委員的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.341 --> 00:16.343\n謝謝主席有請部長好來部長請委員好\n\n00:23.642 --> 00:51.449\n部長其實發生這樣的悲劇我相信大家看了都很難過但更重要的事情是我們真的很認真的來看現在到底發生了什麼狀況我們社會安全網的強化第一期計畫、第二期計畫部長你會不會覺得很奇怪為什麼兒少受虐的人數其實不減反正\n\n00:53.582 --> 01:03.509\n這個部分應該是通報吧當然我們鼓勵通報也會讓這個本來是在黑樹的地方的這些案件量會跑出來\n\n01:06.099 --> 01:29.710\n就齁這個是通報數碼就實際的數目我們可能未來有機會一樣一樣來去比但是呢這一次發生這樣的悲劇我必須要跟部長說就讓我想到2019年的時候其實一模一樣的報告在這個辦公室在這個會議室其實有做過那個時候我們檢討了非常多的事情\n\n01:30.450 --> 01:59.249\n看到說多數兒孽的案件施孽者是父母或實際照顧的人但這次衛福部在處理這件事情的時候我之前公開了記者會其實我有想要公開請教一下部長就是我看不懂的事情是說衛福部認為說這個保母不是實際的照顧者因為如果是這樣解釋的話我非常擔心我們的兒少法整個規範體系會崩盤那這樣子的解釋部長您認同嗎?\n\n02:00.530 --> 02:24.751\n我不認同你不認同嗎對我不認同那或許未來可能部長回去找一下就是請衛福部的官員在面對外界質疑的時候誠實的面對問題因為想要透過法條扭曲的解釋不僅沒有辦法解決問題只會造成更大的問題部長您同意嗎\n\n02:25.431 --> 02:52.281\n對,所以在我們今天的這個檢討報告裡面有特別就這一點因為這個是長久以來在社政的單位裡面他們因為分工的非常細所以一碰到問題第一個要想說這是屬於誰要負責我們吼先不是以這個個案為重心我們以法論法啦而造法施行細則有把它限定在說實際照顧者只限於家庭內嗎?\n\n02:54.308 --> 03:21.508\n這個是在講的是102條的在講是嘛但我們現在在講的是49條跟53條嘛所以這樣子給媒體的訊息絕對是錯誤的訊息嘛錯誤的訊息錯了我肯定部長在這邊沒有要凹沒有要聞過是非錯了就錯了嘛好接下來讓我另外一個覺得非常困惑的事情是說\n\n03:22.918 --> 03:44.501\n前面說是施行細則現於家庭內後來這個說法被戳破了以後改變另外一個說法說因為通報的時候孩童已經死亡配合檢警調查所以沒有按額內的處理程序來加以處理對於這樣子的說法部長你同意嗎?我不同意\n\n03:45.262 --> 03:46.483\n我們當時的講法是說為什麼沒有召開額內的重大\n\n04:07.324 --> 04:07.344\n因為齁當\n\n04:35.979 --> 04:49.329\n這件事情發生的時候全體國人都在看衛福部的態度我們在開記者會的時候地方政府有錯就像黃珊珊委員講的臺北市你們自己就是當事人推什麼推啊\n\n04:50.168 --> 05:06.462\n但我們在國會要監督的是中央的部門中央的部門在面對這些問題的態度的時候我們不希望看到透過法條的扭曲我們也不希望看到透過一些莫名其妙的理由想要來文過是非\n\n05:07.523 --> 05:29.274\n部長我帶您看這個是2022年的時候臺中市政府針對那個時候也是外界質疑發生額內事件的時候他們沒有處理好臺中市政府他們給臺中市議會的調查報告部長我建議你我現在不是在吹捧盧秀燕\n\n05:30.214 --> 05:59.241\n我是很持平的看您回去看齁臺中市政府給臺中市議會的這份報告從內容的檢討到究責而且已給剪掉了已給剪掉他們提內容的檢討跟究責跟偵查不公開一點關係也沒有也沒有尾一倍我希望啦齁最起碼我們的衛福部未來在出報告的時候不要連地方政府出的報告都比不上\n\n06:00.462 --> 06:15.352\n委員這之前的報告是內容比較簡略其實是因為時間的關係那至於剛剛委員提到這一個刑事調查的過程其實不妨礙行政調查因為他的目的是不一樣的\n\n06:15.492 --> 06:30.594\n部長你說這樣的話我非常的認同啊終於有一個法律人站在備詢台上說實話了刑事司法的調查跟行政的調查是沒有相互衝突的嘛好很好\n\n06:33.837 --> 07:01.663\n第二個問題是我要follow我上一次請教部長的問題蘇丹紅的事件我在這邊跟您說說你輸入的時間要公告你當天也給我承諾了嘛部長對吧我的記憶沒有錯啊你當天給我承諾啦說要公告啊但很奇怪啊我上去衛福部食藥署的網站蘇丹紅不合格專區還是沒有輸入的時間啊\n\n07:04.039 --> 07:19.319\n您答應我那食藥署不做是上令下面可以不服從嗎因為我相信部長不會騙我啊你答應我說輸入的時間當然要公開透明讓大家知道啊啊怎麼現在專區還沒有\n\n07:21.444 --> 07:45.803\n這個我再確定一下因為這邊有寫說檢驗結果的日期這個是跟輸入的日期是否一致不一樣我現在可以直接跟部長講不一樣那如果是這樣的話那就少了一個來源因為我為什麼一直在追輸入的日期下一張我馬上就秀答案給部長看因為那時候部長說我們2023年12月11號已經開始逐批查驗了\n\n07:50.186 --> 08:12.881\n之前我在問高雄的公司的時候我覺得很奇怪竹坯茶園怎麼進得來您說那個是在竹坯茶園之前嘛但部長請您看一下我為什麼要追進口的進來的時間你有沒有看到啊在保興公司裡面有2024年1月2號跟2月17號1月2號跟2月17號那個是在竹坯茶園之後喔\n\n08:16.582 --> 08:30.059\n那問題就來了啊那既然都已經逐批查驗了怎麼在逐批查驗之後進來的還會被驗出來那不是在海關就要攔截了嗎部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道我知道\n\n08:31.856 --> 08:49.871\n這是什麼狀況?這我再釐清一下看看好那個齁請部長齁就是說既然已經逐批查驗逐批查驗給我們所有的消費者的信心就是說我們的政府在海關做好把關了嘛那顯然不是這個樣子啊逐批查驗了竟然還進來這個這個是什麼狀況?\n\n08:52.847 --> 08:53.227\n我們謝謝黃國昌委員的\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.341,"end":16.343,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長好 來部長請委員好"},{"start":23.642,"end":51.449,"text":"部長其實發生這樣的悲劇我相信大家看了都很難過但更重要的事情是我們真的很認真的來看現在到底發生了什麼狀況我們社會安全網的強化第一期計畫、第二期計畫部長你會不會覺得很奇怪為什麼兒少受虐的人數其實不減反正"},{"start":53.582,"end":63.509,"text":"這個部分應該是通報吧當然我們鼓勵通報也會讓這個本來是在黑樹的地方的這些案件量會跑出來"},{"start":66.099,"end":89.71,"text":"就齁這個是通報數碼就實際的數目我們可能未來有機會一樣一樣來去比但是呢這一次發生這樣的悲劇我必須要跟部長說就讓我想到2019年的時候其實一模一樣的報告在這個辦公室在這個會議室其實有做過那個時候我們檢討了非常多的事情"},{"start":90.45,"end":119.249,"text":"看到說多數兒孽的案件施孽者是父母或實際照顧的人但這次衛福部在處理這件事情的時候我之前公開了記者會其實我有想要公開請教一下部長就是我看不懂的事情是說衛福部認為說這個保母不是實際的照顧者因為如果是這樣解釋的話我非常擔心我們的兒少法整個規範體系會崩盤那這樣子的解釋部長您認同嗎?"},{"start":120.53,"end":144.751,"text":"我不認同你不認同嗎對我不認同那或許未來可能部長回去找一下就是請衛福部的官員在面對外界質疑的時候誠實的面對問題因為想要透過法條扭曲的解釋不僅沒有辦法解決問題只會造成更大的問題部長您同意嗎"},{"start":145.431,"end":172.281,"text":"對,所以在我們今天的這個檢討報告裡面有特別就這一點因為這個是長久以來在社政的單位裡面他們因為分工的非常細所以一碰到問題第一個要想說這是屬於誰要負責我們吼先不是以這個個案為重心我們以法論法啦而造法施行細則有把它限定在說實際照顧者只限於家庭內嗎?"},{"start":174.308,"end":201.508,"text":"這個是在講的是102條的在講是嘛但我們現在在講的是49條跟53條嘛所以這樣子給媒體的訊息絕對是錯誤的訊息嘛錯誤的訊息錯了我肯定部長在這邊沒有要凹沒有要聞過是非錯了就錯了嘛好接下來讓我另外一個覺得非常困惑的事情是說"},{"start":202.918,"end":224.501,"text":"前面說是施行細則現於家庭內後來這個說法被戳破了以後改變另外一個說法說因為通報的時候孩童已經死亡配合檢警調查所以沒有按額內的處理程序來加以處理對於這樣子的說法部長你同意嗎?我不同意"},{"start":225.262,"end":226.483,"text":"我們當時的講法是說為什麼沒有召開額內的重大"},{"start":247.324,"end":247.344,"text":"因為齁當"},{"start":275.979,"end":289.329,"text":"這件事情發生的時候全體國人都在看衛福部的態度我們在開記者會的時候地方政府有錯就像黃珊珊委員講的臺北市你們自己就是當事人推什麼推啊"},{"start":290.168,"end":306.462,"text":"但我們在國會要監督的是中央的部門中央的部門在面對這些問題的態度的時候我們不希望看到透過法條的扭曲我們也不希望看到透過一些莫名其妙的理由想要來文過是非"},{"start":307.523,"end":329.274,"text":"部長我帶您看這個是2022年的時候臺中市政府針對那個時候也是外界質疑發生額內事件的時候他們沒有處理好臺中市政府他們給臺中市議會的調查報告部長我建議你我現在不是在吹捧盧秀燕"},{"start":330.214,"end":359.241,"text":"我是很持平的看您回去看齁臺中市政府給臺中市議會的這份報告從內容的檢討到究責而且已給剪掉了已給剪掉他們提內容的檢討跟究責跟偵查不公開一點關係也沒有也沒有尾一倍我希望啦齁最起碼我們的衛福部未來在出報告的時候不要連地方政府出的報告都比不上"},{"start":360.462,"end":375.352,"text":"委員這之前的報告是內容比較簡略其實是因為時間的關係那至於剛剛委員提到這一個刑事調查的過程其實不妨礙行政調查因為他的目的是不一樣的"},{"start":375.492,"end":390.594,"text":"部長你說這樣的話我非常的認同啊終於有一個法律人站在備詢台上說實話了刑事司法的調查跟行政的調查是沒有相互衝突的嘛好很好"},{"start":393.837,"end":421.663,"text":"第二個問題是我要follow我上一次請教部長的問題蘇丹紅的事件我在這邊跟您說說你輸入的時間要公告你當天也給我承諾了嘛部長對吧我的記憶沒有錯啊你當天給我承諾啦說要公告啊但很奇怪啊我上去衛福部食藥署的網站蘇丹紅不合格專區還是沒有輸入的時間啊"},{"start":424.039,"end":439.319,"text":"您答應我那食藥署不做是上令下面可以不服從嗎因為我相信部長不會騙我啊你答應我說輸入的時間當然要公開透明讓大家知道啊啊怎麼現在專區還沒有"},{"start":441.444,"end":465.803,"text":"這個我再確定一下因為這邊有寫說檢驗結果的日期這個是跟輸入的日期是否一致不一樣我現在可以直接跟部長講不一樣那如果是這樣的話那就少了一個來源因為我為什麼一直在追輸入的日期下一張我馬上就秀答案給部長看因為那時候部長說我們2023年12月11號已經開始逐批查驗了"},{"start":470.186,"end":492.881,"text":"之前我在問高雄的公司的時候我覺得很奇怪竹坯茶園怎麼進得來您說那個是在竹坯茶園之前嘛但部長請您看一下我為什麼要追進口的進來的時間你有沒有看到啊在保興公司裡面有2024年1月2號跟2月17號1月2號跟2月17號那個是在竹坯茶園之後喔"},{"start":496.582,"end":510.059,"text":"那問題就來了啊那既然都已經逐批查驗了怎麼在逐批查驗之後進來的還會被驗出來那不是在海關就要攔截了嗎部長您懂我的意思嗎我知道我知道"},{"start":511.856,"end":529.871,"text":"這是什麼狀況?這我再釐清一下看看好 那個齁請部長齁就是說既然已經逐批查驗逐批查驗給我們所有的消費者的信心就是說我們的政府在海關做好把關了嘛那顯然不是這個樣子啊逐批查驗了竟然還進來這個 這個是什麼狀況?"},{"start":532.847,"end":533.227,"text":"我們謝謝黃國昌委員的"}]}}}}