{"id":150073,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150073","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1923bc163181fd46724135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a60a64debb1b02432b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:18:23 - 09:30:59","影片長度":"00:12:36","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":756,"end_time":"2024-03-20T09:30:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:18:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":64,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時18分）謝謝主席。有請吳部長，還有領務局何局長。"],["主席：請吳部長，還有領務局局長。"],["吳部長釗燮：羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早。部長，我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題，我想請教有關於我國外籍配偶申請依親結婚面談，我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了，二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的調整？有嗎？有沒有定期討論這個部分？"],["吳部長釗燮：有，一直都有討論，請局長說明一下。"],["何局長震寰：應該是說不定期的我們都會去檢討。"],["羅委員美玲：所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式？"],["何局長震寰：就是說我們會再看一些相關的數據，譬如說一些個案累積下來的大數據，有違法、違常的情況，個別國家的，如果情節不是那麼嚴重的話，我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉，近年來我們已經拿掉過3國。"],["羅委員美玲：上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長，還有領務局做過相關的討論，本來在2021年以前我們是有22國，然後我們經過多次討論，後來拿掉了哈薩克、白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這3個國家。就像剛剛局長你有提到，我們會看看他在臺灣的違常情況，或是申請的案件是不是還有在申請，我所知道的是好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關案件，我所瞭解像塞內加爾，但我也不知道為什麼它會一直掛在這上面。所以這部分的數據，我在想可能要2年、3年檢討一次，因為我覺得這種面談常常會被討論，是因為其實有很多的詬病，真的有很多問題。","我想請教的主要是這個面談制度有沒有想要朝向更加便民的方式來進行？因為目前是國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話，國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去面談，有沒有比較簡便的方式？我知道在疫情當中我們有所謂的單邊面談，國人採書審的方式，然後要結婚的對象在母國是採面談的方式，但疫情之後我們就恢復了國人還是得飛一趟的這種方式，有沒有辦法沿用疫情當中這種比較簡便的方式？局長。"],["何局長震寰：謝謝委員指教，我們領務的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性絕對是我們要努力的方向。"],["羅委員美玲：我們所知道的就是非常不便民，這個部分有沒有辦法比照疫情當中的作法？"],["何局長震寰：是，如果說有不便民的情況，基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響，累積的案件太多，所以排隊的時間太多。其他的部分，我們其實有做了很多的改革，包括一些詢問問題的專業程度，跟避開敏感性的部分，我們其實都有一直在做檢討。有關排隊時間過長的部分，我們是……"],["羅委員美玲：局長，我還沒有問到那個部分，我知道你要提的就是越南最近案件太多、累積太多。"],["何局長震寰：對。"],["羅委員美玲：我也知道領務局這邊有派了很多人員到越南想要紓解這個部分，我要講的就是，說實在的，目前跟臺灣人結婚最多的是哪二個國家？越南跟印尼嘛！"],["何局長震寰：對。"],["羅委員美玲：越南有多大呢？越南是臺灣的將近10倍大，印尼是臺灣的53倍大，真的是幅員非常非常遼闊，不像臺中到臺北可能二個多小時，高雄到臺北可能四個小時，這個時間其實是很短的，可是我們常常接到很多反映，就是這個配偶可能住在印尼比較偏遠的地方，也許要去面談一趟要花個三天三夜都是有可能的事情，輾轉坐飛機、坐船、陸上的交通等等。所以我在想，我們有沒有辦法研議出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財以及舟車勞頓？還有一點，國人也必須飛一趟，譬如要迎娶印尼的配偶就必須飛一趟印尼去面談，像這種方式已經行之有年，從2005年到現在了，是不是我們可以來研議讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性？國人跟這些國家、這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦，都非常的辛苦，像印尼、菲律賓、越南、泰國、柬埔寨、斯里蘭卡、印度，要跟這些國家的人民結婚，我們都要到他們的國家去面談。還有一點，假設有一個印尼的朋友在這裡認識了臺灣人，兩個人都在臺灣，如果他們要結婚的話，這兩個本來在臺灣的人還必須飛一趟印尼去面談，這個合理嗎？這個方式合理嗎？兩個人都在臺灣了，為什麼還要再回去印尼面談？請問有沒有比較彈性的做法？"],["何局長震寰：因為結婚面談其實涉及到許多相關文件的審查，他們文件的真偽等等，所以必須……"],["羅委員美玲：他人都在臺灣了啊！對不對？"],["何局長震寰：對，但是相關的文件……"],["羅委員美玲：所謂的真偽是怎麼樣？一定要回到那邊才能夠辨定它的真實性嗎？"],["何局長震寰：因為駐處那邊對於相關真偽的辨認，是比我們在臺北做要來的精確。"],["羅委員美玲：局長，我給一個建議，我們都希望朝向更圓融的方式來處理，我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情，剛才我提到疫情中的方式可不可以來延續？我不曉得你們那三年用這種比較彈性的面談方式有什麼不方便的地方嗎？或是出了什麼問題，這部分可以說明一下嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。在這邊跟委員報告一下，委員的這些建議我們都納入考量，我們的政策方向在這邊跟委員說明，我們會朝向彈性、方便的方式來走，至於……"],["羅委員美玲：疫情的方式看有沒有辦法來延續。再來，還有第二點，我也希望能夠比照中配模式，中國的配偶是來到臺灣的機場或港口才面談，國人沒有要飛到中國去的這個問題，這部分可不可以來參照？因為中國籍配偶跟外籍配偶的面談方式是不一樣，當然是兩個法不一樣，只是可不可以參照？因為跟19個國家結婚的國人真的非常辛苦，就一定要飛一趟，比如說現在要娶烏克蘭的配偶，就得飛一趟烏克蘭；要娶巴基斯坦的配偶，必須飛一趟巴基斯坦，可不可以比照中國籍的配偶在他們落地機場或是港口時設立一個辦事處在裡面面談，這個有辦法做得到嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員回報一下……"],["羅委員美玲：中國配偶可以做得到，為什麼外籍配偶在這部分我們不能夠朝更加方便的方式來進行？"],["吳部長釗燮：因為中國這一塊不是由外交部來負責，所以是有差別……"],["羅委員美玲：是！我知道，這是陸委會的事情，我只是說這部分可以參考嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：當然！委員提出來的這個非常好。"],["羅委員美玲：因為中國籍的配偶其實是占了所有新住民的最大宗，他們都可以在港口或機場來面談，國人也不需要飛一趟中國，外籍配偶也可以來比照啊，是不是？"],["吳部長釗燮：對，委員講得非常好。"],["羅委員美玲：這個可不可以來研究看看？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們一定會來研究。跟委員回報，我們的政策態度現在就是朝向越來越便民、越來越方便最好，我們會持續滾動式檢討。"],["羅委員美玲：這個已經施行二十幾年了，我才會問因為時空環境的轉換，說實在的，我們該修的還是要修。"],["吳部長釗燮：是！沒有錯。"],["羅委員美玲：我們這是為了新住民跟家人的團聚權，所以有時候他們跟我說真的是非常辛苦。"],["吳部長釗燮：我知道。"],["羅委員美玲：就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外，真的是舟車勞頓、勞民傷財，有時候去一次沒過，還要第二次、第三次，所以這個部分要麻煩部長及局長認真來思考，如何去調整我們境外面談的制度跟內容。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，沒問題。"],["羅委員美玲：當然剛剛有提到了，面談官所問的內容真的要非常專業，不要問喜宴第一道菜吃什麼、第三道菜吃什麼，沒人會記得，也不要問第一次約會在哪裡，像我之前接到的一個case，面試官就問你們第一次約會在哪裡啊？太太說在逢甲大學，先生說在臺中公園。哇！你們不是真的要結婚，就說你們講的不一樣，也許一天當中去了臺中公園，又去了逢甲大學，也有可能啊！可是太太可能就不知道臺中公園是在哪裡啊！根本對臺灣就不熟悉嘛，對不對？只要稍微講一點不一樣，就說你們這是假結婚，所以這個內容可能要去做修正，而面試官的素質也要提高，不要去問一些非常私密的問題，早期真的是問一些非常私密的問題，這跟人權有關係，這是很不應該。"],["吳部長釗燮：我知道。"],["羅委員美玲：這部分我在想應該要來進行全面的檢討，目前還沿用二十幾年的面談制度，我覺得很不應該，當然你們應該會說這可能還有人口販運等等問題，這部分我可以理解，可是我們面談的內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行。"],["吳部長釗燮：我們來做檢討，也跟委員報告一下，過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要防弊的事情，我們接下來在防弊跟提供便捷化的服務上面如何取得更好的平衡，我在這邊也答應委員，我們會很認真的來檢討。"],["羅委員美玲：這部分我跟各位真的是已經討論很多、很多年了，可是我覺得真的沒有什麼進度。","再來，我們有一些所謂免予面談的部分，可是免予面談的部分，我在想核准的通過數真的是非常的少，像2022年越南有2,922人申請，結果通過的只有122人；柬埔寨有7位申請，結果是都不通過。當然你們有列了七種可以免予面談的方式，可是真正適用的部分真的是很少，尤其是第五點，我曾經遇見過一個越南的女大生，他認識了臺灣的先生，在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了，當然後續他有完成他的學業，但結婚的時間剛好是在他學生時代，兩個人都已經在臺灣了，但還是得飛回越南去面談，我們就覺得非常奇怪。類似像這種兩個人都已經在臺灣了，還需要再飛到配偶的母國去面談的狀況，讓我覺得很匪夷所思，這部分是不是可以來做彈性的檢討？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們來檢討。"],["羅委員美玲：對！人都已經在這裡了，而且他是學生，難道學生有偽造的問題嗎？我想不會有吧。以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考，因為我想這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題，也希望領務局、外交部能給一個比較通融的方式，或者是比較圓融的方式來處理面談的制度。以上，謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來請王定宇召委上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150073","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150073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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 749.481, \"end\": 749.501, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,589 --> 00:00:06,193\n謝謝主席有請吳部長還有林務局和局長請吳部長還有林務局局長羅委員早\n\n2\n00:00:13,171 --> 00:00:34,468\n部長早部長我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題我想請教就是說有關於我國這個外籍配偶申請一金結婚面談我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了那二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的這個調整有嗎有沒有定期討論這個部分\n\n3\n00:00:35,569 --> 00:01:03,212\n有一直都有討論那個請局長說明一下應該說是不定期的我們都會去檢討所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式就是說我們會再看一些相關的這個數據比如說一些個案累積下來的一些大數據有違法違常的情況個別國家的然後我們如果說情節不是那麼嚴重的話我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉那近年來我們已經拿掉過三國是\n\n4\n00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:30,698\n因為像上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長還有領務局做過相關的這個討論本來我們在這個民國在2021年以前我們是有22國嘛然後我們經過多次的討論後來我們拿掉了哈薩克白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這三個國家那就像剛剛局長你有提到就是說我們會看看他在台灣的圍場的情況或者是說申請的案件\n\n5\n00:01:32,938 --> 00:01:55,403\n我所知道好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關的這案件我所了解的像塞內加爾我也不知道為什麼他會一直掛在這上面所以這部分這數據我再想可能要兩年三年檢討一次因為我覺得說這種面談常常會被討論是因為其實有很多的這個詬病\n\n6\n00:01:56,823 --> 00:01:58,023\n國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話,國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去做面談。\n\n7\n00:02:17,890 --> 00:02:17,910\n局長﹖\n\n8\n00:02:42,290 --> 00:02:57,740\n謝謝委員指教,我們領悟的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性,這個絕對是我們要努力的方向。那我們所知道的就是說非常的不便民,那這個部分的話有沒有辦法比照議題當中的做法?\n\n9\n00:02:59,379 --> 00:03:25,566\n如果說有不便名的情況基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響累積的案件太多所以排隊的時間太多那其他的部分我們其實有做了很多的改革包括一些詢問問題的這個一些專業的程度跟避開敏感性的部分我們其實都有一直在做檢討那有關這個就是排隊時間過長的部分\n\n10\n00:03:27,686 --> 00:03:30,229\n目前跟台灣人結婚最多的是哪兩個國家?\n\n11\n00:03:50,129 --> 00:04:15,910\n越南跟印尼嘛越南有多大呢越南是台灣的53倍大然後越南是台灣的將近10倍大印尼是台灣的53倍大真的是幅員非常非常的遼闊不像說我台中到台北可能兩個多小時我高雄到台北可能4個小時也許這個時間其實是很短的可是我們常常接到很多的反應就是說\n\n12\n00:04:16,630 --> 00:04:16,670\n：羅美玲議員\n\n13\n00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:38,145\n來演繹出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財然後周車勞頓那還有一點國人也必須飛一趟比如說現在要迎娶印尼的配偶必須飛一趟印尼去面談\n\n14\n00:04:48,997 --> 00:05:03,251\n那像這種方式已經行之有年要2005年到現在了那是不是我們可以來演繹說讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性國人跟這些國家這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦\n\n15\n00:05:08,763 --> 00:05:08,803\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n\n16\n00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:45,455\n這方式合理嗎兩個人都在台灣了為什麼還要再回去印尼面談有沒有比較彈性的做法請問\n\n17\n00:05:47,481 --> 00:06:06,551\n因為結婚面談他其實涉及到許多相關文件的這個審查他的這個文件是否真偽啊等等這些他必須是他人都在臺灣了啊對但是他相關的文件那所謂的真偽是怎麼樣一定要回到那邊才有能夠辨定他的他的真實性嗎因為住處裡面對於相關的這些辨認真偽的辨認是比我們在臺北做要來的要來的這個精確\n\n18\n00:06:14,635 --> 00:06:31,850\n局長我給一個建議啦我給一個建議我們都希望說朝向更圓融的方式來處理我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情我們剛才我提到說疫情當中的方式可不可以來延續我不曉得你們這時候那三年來\n\n19\n00:06:32,210 --> 00:06:32,430\n：羅美玲\n\n20\n00:07:03,751 --> 00:07:27,651\n中國的配偶他們是來到台灣的機場或港口才面談國人沒有說要飛到中國去的這個問題這部分可不可以來參照因為中國籍的配偶跟這個外籍配偶他們的面談方式是不一樣當然是兩個法不一樣只是說可不可以參照\n\n21\n00:07:28,431 --> 00:07:53,839\n因為跟這些19個國家結婚的這個國人真的非常的辛苦就一定要飛一趟比如說現在要去烏克蘭的配偶就得飛一趟烏克蘭要去這個巴基斯坦的配偶必須飛一趟巴基斯坦那可不可以來比照中國級的配偶我們在他們落地機場或是港口的時候呢來設\n\n22\n00:07:55,259 --> 00:07:56,720\n中國籍的配偶其實是佔了所有新住民的最大宗\n\n23\n00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:28,169\n他們都可以在港口或機場來面談,國人也不需要飛一趟中國\n\n24\n00:08:30,126 --> 00:08:47,156\n對那個委員講得非常好這個可不可以來研究看看我們一定會來研究就是跟委員回報就是我們的政策態度現在就是說朝向越來越便民越來越方便最好因為這個已經實行了20幾年了所以我才問說因為時空環境的轉換所以說實在的我們該修的還是要修那我們這是為了這個\n\n25\n00:08:57,722 --> 00:09:14,100\n新住民跟家人的這個團聚權所以有時候他們跟我講說真的是非常的辛苦就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外真的是所謂的舟車勞頓饒命傷財有一次一次美國還要第二次第三次\n\n26\n00:09:14,801 --> 00:09:17,622\n所以這個部分要麻煩部長還有局長認真來思考如何去調整我們境外面談的這個制度跟內容那當然剛剛有提到了就是說面談官他所問的這個內容真的要非常的專業不要問說喜宴第一道菜吃什麼第三道菜吃什麼沒人記得也不要問說第一次約會在哪裡\n\n27\n00:09:36,972 --> 00:09:59,859\n有時約會,像我之前見到的一個case,面試官問說你們第一次約會在哪裡啊?太太說在逢甲大學,先生說在台中公園。哇,你們就是,你們就是,這就不是真的要結婚。就說你們講的就不一樣,也許一天當中去了台中公園又去了逢甲大學,也有可能啊,可是太太可能就不知道說台中公園是在哪裡啊,根本就台灣就不熟悉嘛,對不對?\n\n28\n00:10:00,859 --> 00:10:13,448\n所以只要稍微講一點不一樣然後就說你們這是假結婚所以這個內容可能要去做修正對面試官數字也要提高不要去問一些非常私密早期真的是去問一些非常私密的問題真的這跟人權有關係這是很不應該\n\n29\n00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:36,562\n這部分我在想應該是要來做這個全面的檢討我覺得這個制度還沿用20幾年的這個面談制度我覺得很不應該當然你們應該會講說可能還有人口販運等等這個我都我能夠理解這部分我可以理解可是說我們面談的這個內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行\n\n30\n00:10:37,322 --> 00:10:56,240\n我們來做檢討那也跟委員報告一下就是過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要去做的這個防弊的事情那我們接下來就是說在防弊跟提供便捷化的這個服務上面如果取得一個更好的這個平衡那我在這邊也答應委員就是說我們很認真的來檢討\n\n31\n00:10:57,857 --> 00:11:11,785\n這部分我已經跟各位已經真的是討論很多很多年了可是我就覺得真的沒有什麼進度好那再來我們有一些所謂免於面談的這個部分可是這個免於面談的部分我在想說核准的這個通過數真的是非常的少像2022年越南有2922人申請結果呢通過的就122\n\n32\n00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:34,277\n那柬埔寨有7位結果是都不通過那當然你們有列了7種可以免於面談的這個方式可是真正適用的部分真的是很少又是第5點我曾經遇見過一個越南的大學生女大生他認識了台灣的這個先生那他們在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了當然後續他有完成他的學業可是這結婚的點剛好是在他在學生那個時代\n\n33\n00:11:47,344 --> 00:11:47,384\n羅美玲議員\n\n34\n00:12:01,874 --> 00:12:11,136\n配偶的母國去面談這部分讓我覺得很匪夷所思這部分是不是可以來做彈性的這個檢討我們來檢討對人都已經在這裡他是學生難道學生有偽造的問題嗎我想不會有吧以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考因為我在想說這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題也希望領悟局外交部這邊能給一個比較\n\n35\n00:12:29,481 --> 00:12:29,501\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t6193\t謝謝主席有請吳部長還有林務局和局長請吳部長還有林務局局長羅委員早\n13171\t34468\t部長早部長我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題我想請教就是說有關於我國這個外籍配偶申請一金結婚面談我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了那二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的這個調整有嗎有沒有定期討論這個部分\n35569\t63212\t有一直都有討論那個請局長說明一下應該說是不定期的我們都會去檢討所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式就是說我們會再看一些相關的這個數據比如說一些個案累積下來的一些大數據有違法違常的情況 個別國家的然後我們如果說情節不是那麼嚴重的話我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉那近年來我們已經拿掉過三國是\n64933\t90698\t因為像上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長還有領務局做過相關的這個討論本來我們在這個民國在2021年以前我們是有22國嘛然後我們經過多次的討論後來我們拿掉了哈薩克白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這三個國家那就像剛剛局長你有提到就是說我們會看看他在台灣的圍場的情況或者是說申請的案件\n92938\t115403\t我所知道好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關的這案件我所了解的像塞內加爾我也不知道為什麼他會一直掛在這上面所以這部分這數據我再想可能要兩年三年檢討一次因為我覺得說這種面談常常會被討論是因為其實有很多的這個詬病\n116823\t118023\t國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話,國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去做面談。\n137890\t137910\t局長﹖\n162290\t177740\t謝謝委員指教,我們領悟的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性,這個絕對是我們要努力的方向。那我們所知道的就是說非常的不便民,那這個部分的話有沒有辦法比照議題當中的做法?\n179379\t205566\t如果說有不便名的情況基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響累積的案件太多所以排隊的時間太多那其他的部分我們其實有做了很多的改革包括一些詢問問題的這個一些專業的程度跟避開敏感性的部分我們其實都有一直在做檢討那有關這個就是排隊時間過長的部分\n207686\t210229\t目前跟台灣人結婚最多的是哪兩個國家?\n230129\t255910\t越南跟印尼嘛越南有多大呢越南是台灣的53倍大然後越南是台灣的將近10倍大印尼是台灣的53倍大真的是幅員非常非常的遼闊不像說我台中到台北可能兩個多小時我高雄到台北可能4個小時也許這個時間其實是很短的可是我們常常接到很多的反應就是說\n256630\t256670\t：羅美玲議員\n273820\t278145\t來演繹出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財然後周車勞頓那還有一點國人也必須飛一趟比如說現在要迎娶印尼的配偶必須飛一趟印尼去面談\n288997\t303251\t那像這種方式已經行之有年要2005年到現在了那是不是我們可以來演繹說讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性國人跟這些國家這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦\n308763\t308803\t﹚羅美玲﹚\n338300\t345455\t這方式合理嗎兩個人都在台灣了為什麼還要再回去印尼面談有沒有比較彈性的做法請問\n347481\t366551\t因為結婚面談他其實涉及到許多相關文件的這個審查他的這個文件是否真偽啊等等這些他必須是他人都在臺灣了啊對但是他相關的文件那所謂的真偽是怎麼樣一定要回到那邊才有能夠辨定他的他的真實性嗎因為住處裡面對於相關的這些辨認真偽的辨認是比我們在臺北做要來的要來的這個精確\n374635\t391850\t局長我給一個建議啦我給一個建議我們都希望說朝向更圓融的方式來處理我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情我們剛才我提到說疫情當中的方式可不可以來延續我不曉得你們這時候那三年來\n392210\t392430\t：羅美玲\n423751\t447651\t中國的配偶他們是來到台灣的機場或港口才面談國人沒有說要飛到中國去的這個問題這部分可不可以來參照因為中國籍的配偶跟這個外籍配偶他們的面談方式是不一樣當然是兩個法不一樣只是說可不可以參照\n448431\t473839\t因為跟這些19個國家結婚的這個國人真的非常的辛苦就一定要飛一趟比如說現在要去烏克蘭的配偶就得飛一趟烏克蘭要去這個巴基斯坦的配偶必須飛一趟巴基斯坦那可不可以來比照中國級的配偶我們在他們落地機場或是港口的時候呢來設\n475259\t476720\t中國籍的配偶其實是佔了所有新住民的最大宗\n501920\t508169\t他們都可以在港口或機場來面談,國人也不需要飛一趟中國\n510126\t527156\t對 那個委員講得非常好 這個可不可以來研究看看我們一定會來研究就是跟委員回報就是我們的政策態度現在就是說朝向越來越便民越來越方便最好因為這個已經實行了20幾年了所以我才問說因為時空環境的轉換所以說實在的我們該修的還是要修那我們這是為了這個\n537722\t554100\t新住民跟家人的這個團聚權所以有時候他們跟我講說真的是非常的辛苦就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外真的是所謂的舟車勞頓饒命傷財有一次一次美國還要第二次第三次\n554801\t557622\t所以這個部分要麻煩部長還有局長認真來思考如何去調整我們境外面談的這個制度跟內容那當然剛剛有提到了就是說面談官他所問的這個內容真的要非常的專業不要問說喜宴第一道菜吃什麼第三道菜吃什麼沒人記得也不要問說第一次約會在哪裡\n576972\t599859\t有時約會,像我之前見到的一個case,面試官問說你們第一次約會在哪裡啊?太太說在逢甲大學,先生說在台中公園。哇,你們就是,你們就是,這就不是真的要結婚。就說你們講的就不一樣,也許一天當中去了台中公園又去了逢甲大學,也有可能啊,可是太太可能就不知道說台中公園是在哪裡啊,根本就台灣就不熟悉嘛,對不對?\n600859\t613448\t所以只要稍微講一點不一樣然後就說你們這是假結婚所以這個內容可能要去做修正對面試官數字也要提高不要去問一些非常私密早期真的是去問一些非常私密的問題真的這跟人權有關係這是很不應該\n617650\t636562\t這部分我在想應該是要來做這個全面的檢討我覺得這個制度還沿用20幾年的這個面談制度我覺得很不應該當然你們應該會講說可能還有人口販運等等這個我都我能夠理解這部分我可以理解可是說我們面談的這個內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行\n637322\t656240\t我們來做檢討那也跟委員報告一下就是過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要去做的這個防弊的事情那我們接下來就是說在防弊跟提供便捷化的這個服務上面如果取得一個更好的這個平衡那我在這邊也答應委員就是說我們很認真的來檢討\n657857\t671785\t這部分我已經跟各位已經真的是討論很多很多年了可是我就覺得真的沒有什麼進度好那再來我們有一些所謂免於面談的這個部分可是這個免於面談的部分我在想說核准的這個通過數真的是非常的少像2022年越南有2922人申請結果呢通過的就122\n680310\t694277\t那柬埔寨有7位結果是都不通過那當然你們有列了7種可以免於面談的這個方式可是真正適用的部分真的是很少又是第5點我曾經遇見過一個越南的大學生女大生他認識了台灣的這個先生那他們在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了當然後續他有完成他的學業可是這結婚的點剛好是在他在學生那個時代\n707344\t707384\t羅美玲議員\n721874\t731136\t配偶的母國去面談這部分讓我覺得很匪夷所思這部分是不是可以來做彈性的這個檢討我們來檢討對人都已經在這裡他是學生難道學生有偽造的問題嗎我想不會有吧以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考因為我在想說這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題也希望領悟局外交部這邊能給一個比較\n749481\t749501\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請吳部長還有林務局和局長請吳部長還有林務局局長羅委員早\n部長早部長我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題我想請教就是說有關於我國這個外籍配偶申請一金結婚面談我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了那二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的這個調整有嗎有沒有定期討論這個部分\n有一直都有討論那個請局長說明一下應該說是不定期的我們都會去檢討所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式就是說我們會再看一些相關的這個數據比如說一些個案累積下來的一些大數據有違法違常的情況 個別國家的然後我們如果說情節不是那麼嚴重的話我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉那近年來我們已經拿掉過三國是\n因為像上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長還有領務局做過相關的這個討論本來我們在這個民國在2021年以前我們是有22國嘛然後我們經過多次的討論後來我們拿掉了哈薩克白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這三個國家那就像剛剛局長你有提到就是說我們會看看他在台灣的圍場的情況或者是說申請的案件\n我所知道好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關的這案件我所了解的像塞內加爾我也不知道為什麼他會一直掛在這上面所以這部分這數據我再想可能要兩年三年檢討一次因為我覺得說這種面談常常會被討論是因為其實有很多的這個詬病\n國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話,國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去做面談。\n局長﹖\n謝謝委員指教,我們領悟的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性,這個絕對是我們要努力的方向。那我們所知道的就是說非常的不便民,那這個部分的話有沒有辦法比照議題當中的做法?\n如果說有不便名的情況基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響累積的案件太多所以排隊的時間太多那其他的部分我們其實有做了很多的改革包括一些詢問問題的這個一些專業的程度跟避開敏感性的部分我們其實都有一直在做檢討那有關這個就是排隊時間過長的部分\n目前跟台灣人結婚最多的是哪兩個國家?\n越南跟印尼嘛越南有多大呢越南是台灣的53倍大然後越南是台灣的將近10倍大印尼是台灣的53倍大真的是幅員非常非常的遼闊不像說我台中到台北可能兩個多小時我高雄到台北可能4個小時也許這個時間其實是很短的可是我們常常接到很多的反應就是說\n：羅美玲議員\n來演繹出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財然後周車勞頓那還有一點國人也必須飛一趟比如說現在要迎娶印尼的配偶必須飛一趟印尼去面談\n那像這種方式已經行之有年要2005年到現在了那是不是我們可以來演繹說讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性國人跟這些國家這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n這方式合理嗎兩個人都在台灣了為什麼還要再回去印尼面談有沒有比較彈性的做法請問\n因為結婚面談他其實涉及到許多相關文件的這個審查他的這個文件是否真偽啊等等這些他必須是他人都在臺灣了啊對但是他相關的文件那所謂的真偽是怎麼樣一定要回到那邊才有能夠辨定他的他的真實性嗎因為住處裡面對於相關的這些辨認真偽的辨認是比我們在臺北做要來的要來的這個精確\n局長我給一個建議啦我給一個建議我們都希望說朝向更圓融的方式來處理我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情我們剛才我提到說疫情當中的方式可不可以來延續我不曉得你們這時候那三年來\n：羅美玲\n中國的配偶他們是來到台灣的機場或港口才面談國人沒有說要飛到中國去的這個問題這部分可不可以來參照因為中國籍的配偶跟這個外籍配偶他們的面談方式是不一樣當然是兩個法不一樣只是說可不可以參照\n因為跟這些19個國家結婚的這個國人真的非常的辛苦就一定要飛一趟比如說現在要去烏克蘭的配偶就得飛一趟烏克蘭要去這個巴基斯坦的配偶必須飛一趟巴基斯坦那可不可以來比照中國級的配偶我們在他們落地機場或是港口的時候呢來設\n中國籍的配偶其實是佔了所有新住民的最大宗\n他們都可以在港口或機場來面談,國人也不需要飛一趟中國\n對 那個委員講得非常好 這個可不可以來研究看看我們一定會來研究就是跟委員回報就是我們的政策態度現在就是說朝向越來越便民越來越方便最好因為這個已經實行了20幾年了所以我才問說因為時空環境的轉換所以說實在的我們該修的還是要修那我們這是為了這個\n新住民跟家人的這個團聚權所以有時候他們跟我講說真的是非常的辛苦就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外真的是所謂的舟車勞頓饒命傷財有一次一次美國還要第二次第三次\n所以這個部分要麻煩部長還有局長認真來思考如何去調整我們境外面談的這個制度跟內容那當然剛剛有提到了就是說面談官他所問的這個內容真的要非常的專業不要問說喜宴第一道菜吃什麼第三道菜吃什麼沒人記得也不要問說第一次約會在哪裡\n有時約會,像我之前見到的一個case,面試官問說你們第一次約會在哪裡啊?太太說在逢甲大學,先生說在台中公園。哇,你們就是,你們就是,這就不是真的要結婚。就說你們講的就不一樣,也許一天當中去了台中公園又去了逢甲大學,也有可能啊,可是太太可能就不知道說台中公園是在哪裡啊,根本就台灣就不熟悉嘛,對不對?\n所以只要稍微講一點不一樣然後就說你們這是假結婚所以這個內容可能要去做修正對面試官數字也要提高不要去問一些非常私密早期真的是去問一些非常私密的問題真的這跟人權有關係這是很不應該\n這部分我在想應該是要來做這個全面的檢討我覺得這個制度還沿用20幾年的這個面談制度我覺得很不應該當然你們應該會講說可能還有人口販運等等這個我都我能夠理解這部分我可以理解可是說我們面談的這個內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行\n我們來做檢討那也跟委員報告一下就是過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要去做的這個防弊的事情那我們接下來就是說在防弊跟提供便捷化的這個服務上面如果取得一個更好的這個平衡那我在這邊也答應委員就是說我們很認真的來檢討\n這部分我已經跟各位已經真的是討論很多很多年了可是我就覺得真的沒有什麼進度好那再來我們有一些所謂免於面談的這個部分可是這個免於面談的部分我在想說核准的這個通過數真的是非常的少像2022年越南有2922人申請結果呢通過的就122\n那柬埔寨有7位結果是都不通過那當然你們有列了7種可以免於面談的這個方式可是真正適用的部分真的是很少又是第5點我曾經遇見過一個越南的大學生女大生他認識了台灣的這個先生那他們在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了當然後續他有完成他的學業可是這結婚的點剛好是在他在學生那個時代\n羅美玲議員\n配偶的母國去面談這部分讓我覺得很匪夷所思這部分是不是可以來做彈性的這個檢討我們來檢討對人都已經在這裡他是學生難道學生有偽造的問題嗎我想不會有吧以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考因為我在想說這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題也希望領悟局外交部這邊能給一個比較\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:06.193\n謝謝主席有請吳部長還有林務局和局長請吳部長還有林務局局長羅委員早\n\n00:13.171 --> 00:34.468\n部長早部長我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題我想請教就是說有關於我國這個外籍配偶申請一金結婚面談我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了那二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的這個調整有嗎有沒有定期討論這個部分\n\n00:35.569 --> 01:03.212\n有一直都有討論那個請局長說明一下應該說是不定期的我們都會去檢討所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式就是說我們會再看一些相關的這個數據比如說一些個案累積下來的一些大數據有違法違常的情況個別國家的然後我們如果說情節不是那麼嚴重的話我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉那近年來我們已經拿掉過三國是\n\n01:04.933 --> 01:30.698\n因為像上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長還有領務局做過相關的這個討論本來我們在這個民國在2021年以前我們是有22國嘛然後我們經過多次的討論後來我們拿掉了哈薩克白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這三個國家那就像剛剛局長你有提到就是說我們會看看他在台灣的圍場的情況或者是說申請的案件\n\n01:32.938 --> 01:55.403\n我所知道好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關的這案件我所了解的像塞內加爾我也不知道為什麼他會一直掛在這上面所以這部分這數據我再想可能要兩年三年檢討一次因為我覺得說這種面談常常會被討論是因為其實有很多的這個詬病\n\n01:56.823 --> 01:58.023\n國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話,國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去做面談。\n\n02:17.890 --> 02:17.910\n局長﹖\n\n02:42.290 --> 02:57.740\n謝謝委員指教,我們領悟的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性,這個絕對是我們要努力的方向。那我們所知道的就是說非常的不便民,那這個部分的話有沒有辦法比照議題當中的做法?\n\n02:59.379 --> 03:25.566\n如果說有不便名的情況基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響累積的案件太多所以排隊的時間太多那其他的部分我們其實有做了很多的改革包括一些詢問問題的這個一些專業的程度跟避開敏感性的部分我們其實都有一直在做檢討那有關這個就是排隊時間過長的部分\n\n03:27.686 --> 03:30.229\n目前跟台灣人結婚最多的是哪兩個國家?\n\n03:50.129 --> 04:15.910\n越南跟印尼嘛越南有多大呢越南是台灣的53倍大然後越南是台灣的將近10倍大印尼是台灣的53倍大真的是幅員非常非常的遼闊不像說我台中到台北可能兩個多小時我高雄到台北可能4個小時也許這個時間其實是很短的可是我們常常接到很多的反應就是說\n\n04:16.630 --> 04:16.670\n：羅美玲議員\n\n04:33.820 --> 04:38.145\n來演繹出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財然後周車勞頓那還有一點國人也必須飛一趟比如說現在要迎娶印尼的配偶必須飛一趟印尼去面談\n\n04:48.997 --> 05:03.251\n那像這種方式已經行之有年要2005年到現在了那是不是我們可以來演繹說讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性國人跟這些國家這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦\n\n05:08.763 --> 05:08.803\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n\n05:38.300 --> 05:45.455\n這方式合理嗎兩個人都在台灣了為什麼還要再回去印尼面談有沒有比較彈性的做法請問\n\n05:47.481 --> 06:06.551\n因為結婚面談他其實涉及到許多相關文件的這個審查他的這個文件是否真偽啊等等這些他必須是他人都在臺灣了啊對但是他相關的文件那所謂的真偽是怎麼樣一定要回到那邊才有能夠辨定他的他的真實性嗎因為住處裡面對於相關的這些辨認真偽的辨認是比我們在臺北做要來的要來的這個精確\n\n06:14.635 --> 06:31.850\n局長我給一個建議啦我給一個建議我們都希望說朝向更圓融的方式來處理我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情我們剛才我提到說疫情當中的方式可不可以來延續我不曉得你們這時候那三年來\n\n06:32.210 --> 06:32.430\n：羅美玲\n\n07:03.751 --> 07:27.651\n中國的配偶他們是來到台灣的機場或港口才面談國人沒有說要飛到中國去的這個問題這部分可不可以來參照因為中國籍的配偶跟這個外籍配偶他們的面談方式是不一樣當然是兩個法不一樣只是說可不可以參照\n\n07:28.431 --> 07:53.839\n因為跟這些19個國家結婚的這個國人真的非常的辛苦就一定要飛一趟比如說現在要去烏克蘭的配偶就得飛一趟烏克蘭要去這個巴基斯坦的配偶必須飛一趟巴基斯坦那可不可以來比照中國級的配偶我們在他們落地機場或是港口的時候呢來設\n\n07:55.259 --> 07:56.720\n中國籍的配偶其實是佔了所有新住民的最大宗\n\n08:21.920 --> 08:28.169\n他們都可以在港口或機場來面談,國人也不需要飛一趟中國\n\n08:30.126 --> 08:47.156\n對那個委員講得非常好這個可不可以來研究看看我們一定會來研究就是跟委員回報就是我們的政策態度現在就是說朝向越來越便民越來越方便最好因為這個已經實行了20幾年了所以我才問說因為時空環境的轉換所以說實在的我們該修的還是要修那我們這是為了這個\n\n08:57.722 --> 09:14.100\n新住民跟家人的這個團聚權所以有時候他們跟我講說真的是非常的辛苦就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外真的是所謂的舟車勞頓饒命傷財有一次一次美國還要第二次第三次\n\n09:14.801 --> 09:17.622\n所以這個部分要麻煩部長還有局長認真來思考如何去調整我們境外面談的這個制度跟內容那當然剛剛有提到了就是說面談官他所問的這個內容真的要非常的專業不要問說喜宴第一道菜吃什麼第三道菜吃什麼沒人記得也不要問說第一次約會在哪裡\n\n09:36.972 --> 09:59.859\n有時約會,像我之前見到的一個case,面試官問說你們第一次約會在哪裡啊?太太說在逢甲大學,先生說在台中公園。哇,你們就是,你們就是,這就不是真的要結婚。就說你們講的就不一樣,也許一天當中去了台中公園又去了逢甲大學,也有可能啊,可是太太可能就不知道說台中公園是在哪裡啊,根本就台灣就不熟悉嘛,對不對?\n\n10:00.859 --> 10:13.448\n所以只要稍微講一點不一樣然後就說你們這是假結婚所以這個內容可能要去做修正對面試官數字也要提高不要去問一些非常私密早期真的是去問一些非常私密的問題真的這跟人權有關係這是很不應該\n\n10:17.650 --> 10:36.562\n這部分我在想應該是要來做這個全面的檢討我覺得這個制度還沿用20幾年的這個面談制度我覺得很不應該當然你們應該會講說可能還有人口販運等等這個我都我能夠理解這部分我可以理解可是說我們面談的這個內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行\n\n10:37.322 --> 10:56.240\n我們來做檢討那也跟委員報告一下就是過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要去做的這個防弊的事情那我們接下來就是說在防弊跟提供便捷化的這個服務上面如果取得一個更好的這個平衡那我在這邊也答應委員就是說我們很認真的來檢討\n\n10:57.857 --> 11:11.785\n這部分我已經跟各位已經真的是討論很多很多年了可是我就覺得真的沒有什麼進度好那再來我們有一些所謂免於面談的這個部分可是這個免於面談的部分我在想說核准的這個通過數真的是非常的少像2022年越南有2922人申請結果呢通過的就122\n\n11:20.310 --> 11:34.277\n那柬埔寨有7位結果是都不通過那當然你們有列了7種可以免於面談的這個方式可是真正適用的部分真的是很少又是第5點我曾經遇見過一個越南的大學生女大生他認識了台灣的這個先生那他們在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了當然後續他有完成他的學業可是這結婚的點剛好是在他在學生那個時代\n\n11:47.344 --> 11:47.384\n羅美玲議員\n\n12:01.874 --> 12:11.136\n配偶的母國去面談這部分讓我覺得很匪夷所思這部分是不是可以來做彈性的這個檢討我們來檢討對人都已經在這裡他是學生難道學生有偽造的問題嗎我想不會有吧以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考因為我在想說這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題也希望領悟局外交部這邊能給一個比較\n\n12:29.481 --> 12:29.501\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":6.193,"text":"謝謝主席有請吳部長還有林務局和局長請吳部長還有林務局局長羅委員早"},{"start":13.171,"end":34.468,"text":"部長早部長我今天要跟兩位討論的議題其實是老問題我想請教就是說有關於我國這個外籍配偶申請一金結婚面談我們從民國81年施行到現在已經二十幾年了那二十幾年以來我們做過哪一些滾動式的這個調整有嗎有沒有定期討論這個部分"},{"start":35.569,"end":63.212,"text":"有一直都有討論那個請局長說明一下應該說是不定期的我們都會去檢討所謂不定期的檢討是怎麼樣的檢討方式就是說我們會再看一些相關的這個數據比如說一些個案累積下來的一些大數據有違法違常的情況 個別國家的然後我們如果說情節不是那麼嚴重的話我們就會把它從名單上面拿掉那近年來我們已經拿掉過三國是"},{"start":64.933,"end":90.698,"text":"因為像上一屆的時候其實我也跟部長還有領務局做過相關的這個討論本來我們在這個民國在2021年以前我們是有22國嘛然後我們經過多次的討論後來我們拿掉了哈薩克白俄羅斯跟烏茲別克這三個國家那就像剛剛局長你有提到就是說我們會看看他在台灣的圍場的情況或者是說申請的案件"},{"start":92.938,"end":115.403,"text":"我所知道好像有些國家已經很多年都沒有申請相關的這案件我所了解的像塞內加爾我也不知道為什麼他會一直掛在這上面所以這部分這數據我再想可能要兩年三年檢討一次因為我覺得說這種面談常常會被討論是因為其實有很多的這個詬病"},{"start":116.823,"end":118.023,"text":"國人要跟這幾個面談國家的女子或男子結婚的話,國人就必須一定要飛到那個國家去做面談。"},{"start":137.89,"end":137.91,"text":"局長﹖"},{"start":162.29,"end":177.74,"text":"謝謝委員指教,我們領悟的服務工作能夠提高服務品質跟便利性,這個絕對是我們要努力的方向。那我們所知道的就是說非常的不便民,那這個部分的話有沒有辦法比照議題當中的做法?"},{"start":179.379,"end":205.566,"text":"如果說有不便名的情況基本上在近年來主要是因為受到疫情的影響累積的案件太多所以排隊的時間太多那其他的部分我們其實有做了很多的改革包括一些詢問問題的這個一些專業的程度跟避開敏感性的部分我們其實都有一直在做檢討那有關這個就是排隊時間過長的部分"},{"start":207.686,"end":210.229,"text":"目前跟台灣人結婚最多的是哪兩個國家?"},{"start":230.129,"end":255.91,"text":"越南跟印尼嘛越南有多大呢越南是台灣的53倍大然後越南是台灣的將近10倍大印尼是台灣的53倍大真的是幅員非常非常的遼闊不像說我台中到台北可能兩個多小時我高雄到台北可能4個小時也許這個時間其實是很短的可是我們常常接到很多的反應就是說"},{"start":256.63,"end":256.67,"text":"：羅美玲議員"},{"start":273.82,"end":278.145,"text":"來演繹出一個比較便民的方式減少勞民傷財然後周車勞頓那還有一點國人也必須飛一趟比如說現在要迎娶印尼的配偶必須飛一趟印尼去面談"},{"start":288.997,"end":303.251,"text":"那像這種方式已經行之有年要2005年到現在了那是不是我們可以來演繹說讓整個面談的方式更加的彈性國人跟這些國家這19個國家的配偶結婚是非常非常的辛苦"},{"start":308.763,"end":308.803,"text":"﹚羅美玲﹚"},{"start":338.3,"end":345.455,"text":"這方式合理嗎兩個人都在台灣了為什麼還要再回去印尼面談有沒有比較彈性的做法請問"},{"start":347.481,"end":366.551,"text":"因為結婚面談他其實涉及到許多相關文件的這個審查他的這個文件是否真偽啊等等這些他必須是他人都在臺灣了啊對但是他相關的文件那所謂的真偽是怎麼樣一定要回到那邊才有能夠辨定他的他的真實性嗎因為住處裡面對於相關的這些辨認真偽的辨認是比我們在臺北做要來的要來的這個精確"},{"start":374.635,"end":391.85,"text":"局長我給一個建議啦我給一個建議我們都希望說朝向更圓融的方式來處理我也希望吳部長這邊也可以認真來看待這件事情我們剛才我提到說疫情當中的方式可不可以來延續我不曉得你們這時候那三年來"},{"start":392.21,"end":392.43,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":423.751,"end":447.651,"text":"中國的配偶他們是來到台灣的機場或港口才面談國人沒有說要飛到中國去的這個問題這部分可不可以來參照因為中國籍的配偶跟這個外籍配偶他們的面談方式是不一樣當然是兩個法不一樣只是說可不可以參照"},{"start":448.431,"end":473.839,"text":"因為跟這些19個國家結婚的這個國人真的非常的辛苦就一定要飛一趟比如說現在要去烏克蘭的配偶就得飛一趟烏克蘭要去這個巴基斯坦的配偶必須飛一趟巴基斯坦那可不可以來比照中國級的配偶我們在他們落地機場或是港口的時候呢來設"},{"start":475.259,"end":476.72,"text":"中國籍的配偶其實是佔了所有新住民的最大宗"},{"start":501.92,"end":508.169,"text":"他們都可以在港口或機場來面談,國人也不需要飛一趟中國"},{"start":510.126,"end":527.156,"text":"對 那個委員講得非常好 這個可不可以來研究看看我們一定會來研究就是跟委員回報就是我們的政策態度現在就是說朝向越來越便民越來越方便最好因為這個已經實行了20幾年了所以我才問說因為時空環境的轉換所以說實在的我們該修的還是要修那我們這是為了這個"},{"start":537.722,"end":554.1,"text":"新住民跟家人的這個團聚權所以有時候他們跟我講說真的是非常的辛苦就算先生或太太要飛一趟國外真的是所謂的舟車勞頓饒命傷財有一次一次美國還要第二次第三次"},{"start":554.801,"end":557.622,"text":"所以這個部分要麻煩部長還有局長認真來思考如何去調整我們境外面談的這個制度跟內容那當然剛剛有提到了就是說面談官他所問的這個內容真的要非常的專業不要問說喜宴第一道菜吃什麼第三道菜吃什麼沒人記得也不要問說第一次約會在哪裡"},{"start":576.972,"end":599.859,"text":"有時約會,像我之前見到的一個case,面試官問說你們第一次約會在哪裡啊?太太說在逢甲大學,先生說在台中公園。哇,你們就是,你們就是,這就不是真的要結婚。就說你們講的就不一樣,也許一天當中去了台中公園又去了逢甲大學,也有可能啊,可是太太可能就不知道說台中公園是在哪裡啊,根本就台灣就不熟悉嘛,對不對?"},{"start":600.859,"end":613.448,"text":"所以只要稍微講一點不一樣然後就說你們這是假結婚所以這個內容可能要去做修正對面試官數字也要提高不要去問一些非常私密早期真的是去問一些非常私密的問題真的這跟人權有關係這是很不應該"},{"start":617.65,"end":636.562,"text":"這部分我在想應該是要來做這個全面的檢討我覺得這個制度還沿用20幾年的這個面談制度我覺得很不應該當然你們應該會講說可能還有人口販運等等這個我都我能夠理解這部分我可以理解可是說我們面談的這個內容跟方式應該朝向更加便民的方式來進行"},{"start":637.322,"end":656.24,"text":"我們來做檢討那也跟委員報告一下就是過去這段時間其實我們也面對一些必須要去做的這個防弊的事情那我們接下來就是說在防弊跟提供便捷化的這個服務上面如果取得一個更好的這個平衡那我在這邊也答應委員就是說我們很認真的來檢討"},{"start":657.857,"end":671.785,"text":"這部分我已經跟各位已經真的是討論很多很多年了可是我就覺得真的沒有什麼進度好那再來我們有一些所謂免於面談的這個部分可是這個免於面談的部分我在想說核准的這個通過數真的是非常的少像2022年越南有2922人申請結果呢通過的就122"},{"start":680.31,"end":694.277,"text":"那柬埔寨有7位結果是都不通過那當然你們有列了7種可以免於面談的這個方式可是真正適用的部分真的是很少又是第5點我曾經遇見過一個越南的大學生女大生他認識了台灣的這個先生那他們在他還沒有完成學業的時候就跟這位先生結婚了當然後續他有完成他的學業可是這結婚的點剛好是在他在學生那個時代"},{"start":707.344,"end":707.384,"text":"羅美玲議員"},{"start":721.874,"end":731.136,"text":"配偶的母國去面談這部分讓我覺得很匪夷所思這部分是不是可以來做彈性的這個檢討我們來檢討對人都已經在這裡他是學生難道學生有偽造的問題嗎我想不會有吧以上的問題請兩位回去可以好好地來思考因為我在想說這個部分是外籍配偶長期以來一直在討論的問題也希望領悟局外交部這邊能給一個比較"},{"start":749.481,"end":749.501,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}