{"id":150078,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150078","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1927cd08b2608815f212577149e9af75248f8ba9b0039caa7a613912a9c72435c4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"09:34:58 - 09:44:40","影片長度":"00:09:42","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":582,"end_time":"2024-03-20T09:44:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:34:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":140,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（9時35分）主席，麻煩你幫我邀請廖院長。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：好，院長，謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：羅委員早。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長早。院長今天帶著中研院的領帶，上次你有跟我分享，很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院。待會有一些問題會很尖銳，也希望能夠擦出一些火花，但都是為了國家好，也更希望能夠教學相長，然後一起來探討相關的問題。","2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的頂尖科學家，臺灣有1,447人入榜，這一份數據你有掌握嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：沒有仔細看，但是這個已經在學界到處都傳很久了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：其中臺大有308人、成大有156人、陽明交通有112人、清華有92人及臺科大70人，中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情，等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務，但是中研院只有63人入榜，請問院長，你要不要解釋一下？"],["廖院長俊智：要看這個百分比，中研院總體研究人員的人數比較少，而且這些數據很多都是在理工科，中研院有1/3強的研究人員是在人文科學方面，這部分就不列入考量評比；除此之外，我們的人大部分也都在大學有合聘……"],["羅委員廷瑋：兼課。"],["廖院長俊智：不是，合聘，不是兼課。所以我們希望跟大學一起成長，我們的成就就是大學的成就，我們也希望所有的發表論文也都掛大學的名字……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我個人是這樣認為啦，就像您常說的……"],["廖院長俊智：這個數據可能非常複雜，但是我們仔細看，我想我們要以整個臺灣的進步為方向，而不是分開說這是你的、這是我的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然！整體來說都是臺灣人，但我要講的是，我們大家要知道，就像你剛剛講的，你也跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做相關的教學事務，當然你剛剛有提到臺科大、臺大、成大這些可能會一起合併做一些研究，我個人還是覺得，中研院畢竟每年花國家預算一百三十多億，結果學術的成果跟臺清成交完全不能比，連中興大學都58人入榜，如你所說這些有合併聘請相關的科學員，那他就回去大學工作就好，國家財政有限，大學也可以做學術研究。"],["廖院長俊智：有幾點要澄清，第一個，雖然我們法定任務沒有教學，但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課、都在大學合聘，也有很多在大學開課，我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去臺大上一門課，連我們的副院長都在上課，所以不能講說我們沒有上課；此外，我們的研究成果剛才已經跟委員報告，我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字，所以不能以大學幾人、我們幾人，畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想國家每年編列130億給中研院，這些都是國人辛苦的納稅錢，請問院長，不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員，平均1年養1位研究人員大約花多少錢？這你有計算過嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：這有分好幾個面向，一個是薪資的部分、另外一個是研究經費的部分，研究經費的部分每一組又不一樣，譬如說生命組、數理組的研究人員經費……"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，國家養1位研究人員的投資報酬率是多少？例如技轉了幾件、技轉的金額有多少，這可以來計算嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：可以，但這不是中研院的任務，因為中研院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究，我們不是要做技轉，當然我們也很鼓勵技轉，我們也很希望能夠把基礎研究成果應用到社會，但是應用到社會的本身比較屬於其他單位的責任，我們會鼓勵、我們會朝這方向走，但我們是以創造知識、開發知識前沿，並且培育人才。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個上次你有跟我分享過，我知道，或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了，面對這些數據，我想基於……"],["廖院長俊智：這是好的問題，這是非常好的問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝你。基於國家財政，看緊國人的荷包、錢要花在刀口上，針對這一份數據，我看到的可能是粗淺的，可能您認為還有待更進一步的去瞭解，但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看，中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學，我希望能夠有一些檢討，這都是為了國家能夠更好。","另外我想跟你請問，你知道最近衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是什麼嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：不清楚耶。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長不關心國家大事！來，衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制。院長，尊重市場機制，所以中研院有沒有機會改成財團法人，讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善，實在達不到社會的期待，有些部分就應該要予以調整？院長覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應？"],["廖院長俊智：我們在持續精進，我們不排除任何可能，中研院當然是臺灣一個非常特殊、但我必須講是非常珍貴的一個單位，全世界幾乎僅有這樣一個政府支持專門、專注於基礎研究，已經是絕無僅有，剛才也有委員提到我們要加強基礎研究，是全國唯一重視基礎研究的地方。當然我們可以考量是不是有其他的方法能做得更好，所以委員的提案可以來討論看看，但我們不見得……"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應，但我以上的言論我要跟您報告，我一定要支持你們，但我是探討哪些該檢討、哪些該給予更多的資源，這是我們一併要來討論，而不是一味為了反對而反對、為了刪減而刪減。"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：就以經濟為例，有財團法人台灣綜合研究院、財團法人中華經濟研究院，但每當國內外發生種種經濟直接、間接相關議題的時候，在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析跟看法，而中研院的經濟所幾乎沒有，只有寫期刊文章，完全無濟於國際的名聲，這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應？"],["廖院長俊智：這個我們會請經濟所可以思考朝這方向來稍微做調整。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。因為我們希望中研院是我們賴以期待的一個重要研究單位，如果有你們的一些說法，或許對我們的國家生計也有一些幫助，就我看到你的業務報告結語有講，與時俱進探討社會關鍵問題、善盡社會責任。院長，以經濟所為例，它有盡到探討社會關鍵問題、善盡社會責任嗎？就剛剛我這樣提，應該好像有待加強，對嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：是，我們所有單位都應該朝這方向持續精進，也有很多同仁非常努力朝這方向走。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以今天我建議改成財團法人，好好地和兩個財團法人良性競爭，讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學、回歸市場機制，我想這個部分是一個建議、是一個探討。","最後，我想跟你請問一下，中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題，積極向政府建言並獲得回應。可不可以請院長簡單舉例5年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟？"],["廖院長俊智：剛才也有委員提到，第一個，我們建請政府相關單位加碼博士生的補助，而且有特殊機制、不要把他放在研究經費裡面……"],["羅委員廷瑋：政府都有回應嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：有。此外，我們也建議要提高現職研究人員的薪資，研究人員包括中研院研究人員及大學的教授。"],["羅委員廷瑋：因為時間有限，我想這些有獲得具體回應的、你覺得滿意的，可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下，可以嗎？會後麻煩你整理給我。"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後我要再說再生能源部分，不管是您一直在努力的去碳──所謂天然氣這個部分，還有所謂的地熱、海洋能，以及漸凍人相關的一些研究，我們都非常的關心，包括我們教育及文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究非常期待，會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討，我們也會持續關注中研院的發展，好嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：非常感謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。不過針對剛剛羅委員提到有關於中研院的研究產能比不上一般的大專院校，我想在場所有的所長都表現出非常疑惑的表情，我建議院長可以把你剛剛評比的母數做個更完整的說明，給羅委員一份、也給我一份，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["主席：你們中研院要捍衛你們自己，認為你們的研究不輸於其他部分，你必須要在這個地方提出你的defense，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好，沒問題。"],["主席：因為你的比較不一樣的部分，請你……"],["廖院長俊智：沒問題，在座所有的所長都會幫忙。"],["主席：好不好？就請你提供給我們這個部分，否則就像羅委員所提到的，這對於全國來說的話……"],["廖院長俊智：是，沒錯，這個我們絕對可以……"],["主席：投資中研院這麼多的精力，卻沒有辦法……在這樣一個評比上面，你勢必要給我們一個比較大的部分。謝謝院長。"],["廖院長俊智：是。好。謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：教學相長，大家一起探討。謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來我們請第4位質詢的吳沛憶吳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":392,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","萬美玲","張雅琳","吳春城","陳培瑜","謝衣鳯","范雲","吳思瑤","葉元之","林倩綺"],"page_start":341,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150078","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150078","tool":"pyannote","id":"150078-pyannote"},"job_id":"up4KdFXwkIH8selv","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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0.876}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 580.655, \"end\": 580.755, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 580.755, \"end\": 580.915, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 580.915, \"end\": 580.935, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,892 --> 00:00:14,438\n好我們有請主席麻煩你幫我要請那個廖院長好院長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:20,711 --> 00:00:41,199\n院長早院長今天帶著中研院的領帶上次你有跟我分享那很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院那待會有一些問題會很尖銳那也會希望說能夠参差出一些火花但都是為了國家也更希望能夠教學相長然後一起來探討相關的問題\n\n3\n00:00:42,259 --> 00:00:52,605\n我想2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的一個頂尖科學家台灣有1447人入榜這一份數據你有掌握嗎?\n\n4\n00:00:53,823 --> 00:01:20,760\n沒有仔細看但是這個已經在學界這個到處都傳很久了好其中台大呢有308人成大有156人陽明交通有112人清華有92人台科大70人那中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務\n\n5\n00:01:21,601 --> 00:01:25,430\n但是中央研究院只有63人入榜請問院長你要不要解釋一下\n\n6\n00:01:26,121 --> 00:01:50,936\n我們要看這個百分比．中央研究院總研究人員的人數比較少．而且很多這些數據都是在．比如說理工科．中央研究院有三分之一強的研究人員．是在人文科學方面．這裡面就不列入考量評比．除此之外．我們的人大部分也都在大學有和平課．\n\n7\n00:01:51,997 --> 00:01:53,639\n我個人是這樣認為,就像您常說的\n\n8\n00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:17,402\n總體來說都是台灣人但是我要講的是因為我們大家要知道就像你剛剛講的你也很跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做這樣子相關的一個教學事務\n\n9\n00:02:39,758 --> 00:03:07,339\n那當然你剛剛有提到台大、成大這些可能會有一起合併一起做一些研究那我個人還是覺得因為中央研究院畢竟每年花國家預算130多億結果學術的成果跟台青成交完全不能比連中興大學都58人入榜那我想那這些你所說的這些有合併在聘請這樣子的一個相關的科學員那他就回去大學\n\n10\n00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:29,646\n去工作就好,國家財政有限,大學也可以做學術研究我想這個有幾點要澄清第一個,雖然我們法定任務沒有教學但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課都在大學也在合併,也很多在大學開課我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去台大上一門課\n\n11\n00:03:30,926 --> 00:03:53,864\n一份連我們的副院長都在上課所以不能講說我們沒有上課此外呢這個我們的研究成果剛才已經跟這個委員報告我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字所以不能以這個大學幾人我們幾人我們畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多\n\n12\n00:03:54,104 --> 00:04:04,690\n我想國家每年編列131給中研院,這都是國人辛苦的納稅錢請問院長,不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員平均一年養一位研究人員大約花多少錢?這你有計算過嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:05,748 --> 00:04:09,932\n國家養一位研究人員投資報酬率是多少?計轉的金額有多少?這可以來計算嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:53,438\n可以,可是這不是中央研究院的任務因為中央研究院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究我們不是在做計轉當然我們也很鼓勵計轉我們也很希望把基礎研究的成果能夠應用到社會但是應用到社會這個本身是比較屬於其他單位的責任我們會鼓勵,我們會朝這方向走但是我們是以創造知識來開發知識的前沿\n\n15\n00:04:59,220 --> 00:05:24,657\n這個上次你有跟我分享過我知道但或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了那面對這些數據我想基於國家財政看緊國人的荷包錢要花在刀口上那我個人認為就這一份數據讓我看到可能是出錢的可能你認為是還有待更進一步的去了解但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看結果中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學我希望\n\n16\n00:05:24,957 --> 00:05:27,239\n衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制\n\n17\n00:05:48,138 --> 00:06:09,154\n院長,尊重市場機制,所以只有把中研院有沒有機會改成拆穿法人：難讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價：決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善：實在達不到社會的期待。我想有些部分應該要做予以調整。你覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應?\n\n18\n00:06:09,892 --> 00:06:10,032\n中央研究院院長\n\n19\n00:06:25,857 --> 00:06:30,439\n謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應但我以上的言論我要跟您報告我一定要支持你們但是我是探討哪些該檢討\n\n20\n00:06:52,526 --> 00:06:52,666\n主席\n\n21\n00:07:08,814 --> 00:07:09,334\n我想這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應?\n\n22\n00:07:26,861 --> 00:07:27,141\n中央研究院院長\n\n23\n00:07:44,378 --> 00:07:49,600\n就我們看到你的業務報告結語有講與時計進的探討社會關鍵的問題善盡社會責任院長以經濟所為例他有盡到探討社會關鍵問題善盡社會責任嗎就剛剛我這樣提應該好像永待加強對嗎\n\n24\n00:08:03,644 --> 00:08:06,147\n所以今天我建議改成財團法人好好的和兩個財團法人良性競爭讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學回歸市場機制我想這個部分是一個建議是一個探討\n\n25\n00:08:24,545 --> 00:08:39,644\n那最後我想跟您請問一下中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題（激情向政府建言並獲得回應可不可以請院長簡單的舉例五年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟\n\n26\n00:08:41,281 --> 00:08:44,022\n提高限職研究人員的薪資,包括中央研究院研究人員及大學教授\n\n27\n00:09:06,027 --> 00:09:23,185\n時間有限,我想這些具體的回應有獲得的,你有覺得滿意的,可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下,可以嗎?會後麻煩你整理給我。最後我要再說出,就是再生能源,不管是您所一直在努力的去碳,所謂天然氣這個部分,還有所謂的地熱,還有\n\n28\n00:09:24,346 --> 00:09:40,935\n海洋人以及艦動人相關的一些研究我們都非常的關心我想包括我們教育文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究都非常的期待會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討我們也會持續關注中研院的發展好嗎非常感謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9892\t14438\t好 我們有請主席麻煩你幫我要請那個廖院長好 院長 謝謝\n20711\t41199\t院長早 院長今天帶著中研院的領帶上次你有跟我分享那很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院那待會有一些問題會很尖銳那也會希望說能夠参差出一些火花但都是為了國家也更希望能夠教學相長然後一起來探討相關的問題\n42259\t52605\t我想2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的一個頂尖科學家台灣有1447人入榜這一份數據你有掌握嗎?\n53823\t80760\t沒有仔細看但是這個已經在學界這個到處都傳很久了好 其中台大呢有308人成大有156人陽明交通有112人清華有92人台科大70人那中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務\n81601\t85430\t但是中央研究院只有63人入榜請問院長你要不要解釋一下\n86121\t110936\t我們要看這個百分比．中央研究院總研究人員的人數比較少．而且很多這些數據都是在．比如說理工科．中央研究院有三分之一強的研究人員．是在人文科學方面．這裡面就不列入考量評比．除此之外．我們的人大部分也都在大學有和平課．\n111997\t113639\t我個人是這樣認為,就像您常說的\n134039\t137402\t總體來說都是台灣人但是我要講的是因為我們大家要知道就像你剛剛講的你也很跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做這樣子相關的一個教學事務\n159758\t187339\t那當然你剛剛有提到台大、成大這些可能會有一起合併一起做一些研究那我個人還是覺得因為中央研究院畢竟每年花國家預算130多億結果學術的成果跟台青成交完全不能比連中興大學都58人入榜那我想那這些你所說的這些有合併在聘請這樣子的一個相關的科學員那他就回去大學\n188200\t209646\t去工作就好,國家財政有限,大學也可以做學術研究我想這個有幾點要澄清第一個,雖然我們法定任務沒有教學但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課都在大學也在合併,也很多在大學開課我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去台大上一門課\n210926\t233864\t一份連我們的副院長都在上課所以不能講說我們沒有上課此外呢這個我們的研究成果剛才已經跟這個委員報告我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字所以不能以這個大學幾人我們幾人我們畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多\n234104\t244690\t我想國家每年編列131給中研院,這都是國人辛苦的納稅錢請問院長,不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員平均一年養一位研究人員大約花多少錢?這你有計算過嗎?\n245748\t249932\t國家養一位研究人員投資報酬率是多少?計轉的金額有多少?這可以來計算嗎?\n270750\t293438\t可以,可是這不是中央研究院的任務因為中央研究院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究我們不是在做計轉當然我們也很鼓勵計轉我們也很希望把基礎研究的成果能夠應用到社會但是應用到社會這個本身是比較屬於其他單位的責任我們會鼓勵,我們會朝這方向走但是我們是以創造知識來開發知識的前沿\n299220\t324657\t這個上次你有跟我分享過我知道但或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了那面對這些數據我想基於國家財政看緊國人的荷包錢要花在刀口上那我個人認為就這一份數據讓我看到可能是出錢的可能你認為是還有待更進一步的去了解但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看結果中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學我希望\n324957\t327239\t衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制\n348138\t369154\t院長,尊重市場機制,所以只有把中研院有沒有機會改成拆穿法人：難讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價：決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善：實在達不到社會的期待。我想有些部分應該要做予以調整。你覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應?\n369892\t370032\t中央研究院院長\n385857\t390439\t謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應但我以上的言論我要跟您報告我一定要支持你們但是我是探討哪些該檢討\n412526\t412666\t主席\n428814\t429334\t我想這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應?\n446861\t447141\t中央研究院院長\n464378\t469600\t就我們看到你的業務報告 結語有講 與時計進的探討社會關鍵的問題 善盡社會責任 院長 以經濟所為例 他有盡到探討社會關鍵問題 善盡社會責任嗎 就剛剛我這樣提 應該好像永待加強 對嗎\n483644\t486147\t所以今天我建議改成財團法人好好的和兩個財團法人良性競爭讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學回歸市場機制我想這個部分是一個建議是一個探討\n504545\t519644\t那最後我想跟您請問一下中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題（激情向政府建言並獲得回應可不可以請院長簡單的舉例五年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟\n521281\t524022\t提高限職研究人員的薪資,包括中央研究院研究人員及大學教授\n546027\t563185\t時間有限,我想這些具體的回應有獲得的,你有覺得滿意的,可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下,可以嗎?會後麻煩你整理給我。最後我要再說出,就是再生能源,不管是您所一直在努力的去碳,所謂天然氣這個部分,還有所謂的地熱,還有\n564346\t580935\t海洋人以及艦動人相關的一些研究我們都非常的關心我想包括我們教育文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究都非常的期待會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討我們也會持續關注中研院的發展好嗎非常感謝謝謝\n","txt":"好 我們有請主席麻煩你幫我要請那個廖院長好 院長 謝謝\n院長早 院長今天帶著中研院的領帶上次你有跟我分享那很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院那待會有一些問題會很尖銳那也會希望說能夠参差出一些火花但都是為了國家也更希望能夠教學相長然後一起來探討相關的問題\n我想2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的一個頂尖科學家台灣有1447人入榜這一份數據你有掌握嗎?\n沒有仔細看但是這個已經在學界這個到處都傳很久了好 其中台大呢有308人成大有156人陽明交通有112人清華有92人台科大70人那中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務\n但是中央研究院只有63人入榜請問院長你要不要解釋一下\n我們要看這個百分比．中央研究院總研究人員的人數比較少．而且很多這些數據都是在．比如說理工科．中央研究院有三分之一強的研究人員．是在人文科學方面．這裡面就不列入考量評比．除此之外．我們的人大部分也都在大學有和平課．\n我個人是這樣認為,就像您常說的\n總體來說都是台灣人但是我要講的是因為我們大家要知道就像你剛剛講的你也很跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做這樣子相關的一個教學事務\n那當然你剛剛有提到台大、成大這些可能會有一起合併一起做一些研究那我個人還是覺得因為中央研究院畢竟每年花國家預算130多億結果學術的成果跟台青成交完全不能比連中興大學都58人入榜那我想那這些你所說的這些有合併在聘請這樣子的一個相關的科學員那他就回去大學\n去工作就好,國家財政有限,大學也可以做學術研究我想這個有幾點要澄清第一個,雖然我們法定任務沒有教學但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課都在大學也在合併,也很多在大學開課我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去台大上一門課\n一份連我們的副院長都在上課所以不能講說我們沒有上課此外呢這個我們的研究成果剛才已經跟這個委員報告我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字所以不能以這個大學幾人我們幾人我們畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多\n我想國家每年編列131給中研院,這都是國人辛苦的納稅錢請問院長,不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員平均一年養一位研究人員大約花多少錢?這你有計算過嗎?\n國家養一位研究人員投資報酬率是多少?計轉的金額有多少?這可以來計算嗎?\n可以,可是這不是中央研究院的任務因為中央研究院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究我們不是在做計轉當然我們也很鼓勵計轉我們也很希望把基礎研究的成果能夠應用到社會但是應用到社會這個本身是比較屬於其他單位的責任我們會鼓勵,我們會朝這方向走但是我們是以創造知識來開發知識的前沿\n這個上次你有跟我分享過我知道但或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了那面對這些數據我想基於國家財政看緊國人的荷包錢要花在刀口上那我個人認為就這一份數據讓我看到可能是出錢的可能你認為是還有待更進一步的去了解但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看結果中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學我希望\n衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制\n院長,尊重市場機制,所以只有把中研院有沒有機會改成拆穿法人：難讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價：決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善：實在達不到社會的期待。我想有些部分應該要做予以調整。你覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應?\n中央研究院院長\n謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應但我以上的言論我要跟您報告我一定要支持你們但是我是探討哪些該檢討\n主席\n我想這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應?\n中央研究院院長\n就我們看到你的業務報告 結語有講 與時計進的探討社會關鍵的問題 善盡社會責任 院長 以經濟所為例 他有盡到探討社會關鍵問題 善盡社會責任嗎 就剛剛我這樣提 應該好像永待加強 對嗎\n所以今天我建議改成財團法人好好的和兩個財團法人良性競爭讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學回歸市場機制我想這個部分是一個建議是一個探討\n那最後我想跟您請問一下中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題（激情向政府建言並獲得回應可不可以請院長簡單的舉例五年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟\n提高限職研究人員的薪資,包括中央研究院研究人員及大學教授\n時間有限,我想這些具體的回應有獲得的,你有覺得滿意的,可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下,可以嗎?會後麻煩你整理給我。最後我要再說出,就是再生能源,不管是您所一直在努力的去碳,所謂天然氣這個部分,還有所謂的地熱,還有\n海洋人以及艦動人相關的一些研究我們都非常的關心我想包括我們教育文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究都非常的期待會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討我們也會持續關注中研院的發展好嗎非常感謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.892 --> 00:14.438\n好我們有請主席麻煩你幫我要請那個廖院長好院長謝謝\n\n00:20.711 --> 00:41.199\n院長早院長今天帶著中研院的領帶上次你有跟我分享那很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院那待會有一些問題會很尖銳那也會希望說能夠参差出一些火花但都是為了國家也更希望能夠教學相長然後一起來探討相關的問題\n\n00:42.259 --> 00:52.605\n我想2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的一個頂尖科學家台灣有1447人入榜這一份數據你有掌握嗎?\n\n00:53.823 --> 01:20.760\n沒有仔細看但是這個已經在學界這個到處都傳很久了好其中台大呢有308人成大有156人陽明交通有112人清華有92人台科大70人那中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務\n\n01:21.601 --> 01:25.430\n但是中央研究院只有63人入榜請問院長你要不要解釋一下\n\n01:26.121 --> 01:50.936\n我們要看這個百分比．中央研究院總研究人員的人數比較少．而且很多這些數據都是在．比如說理工科．中央研究院有三分之一強的研究人員．是在人文科學方面．這裡面就不列入考量評比．除此之外．我們的人大部分也都在大學有和平課．\n\n01:51.997 --> 01:53.639\n我個人是這樣認為,就像您常說的\n\n02:14.039 --> 02:17.402\n總體來說都是台灣人但是我要講的是因為我們大家要知道就像你剛剛講的你也很跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做這樣子相關的一個教學事務\n\n02:39.758 --> 03:07.339\n那當然你剛剛有提到台大、成大這些可能會有一起合併一起做一些研究那我個人還是覺得因為中央研究院畢竟每年花國家預算130多億結果學術的成果跟台青成交完全不能比連中興大學都58人入榜那我想那這些你所說的這些有合併在聘請這樣子的一個相關的科學員那他就回去大學\n\n03:08.200 --> 03:29.646\n去工作就好,國家財政有限,大學也可以做學術研究我想這個有幾點要澄清第一個,雖然我們法定任務沒有教學但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課都在大學也在合併,也很多在大學開課我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去台大上一門課\n\n03:30.926 --> 03:53.864\n一份連我們的副院長都在上課所以不能講說我們沒有上課此外呢這個我們的研究成果剛才已經跟這個委員報告我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字所以不能以這個大學幾人我們幾人我們畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多\n\n03:54.104 --> 04:04.690\n我想國家每年編列131給中研院,這都是國人辛苦的納稅錢請問院長,不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員平均一年養一位研究人員大約花多少錢?這你有計算過嗎?\n\n04:05.748 --> 04:09.932\n國家養一位研究人員投資報酬率是多少?計轉的金額有多少?這可以來計算嗎?\n\n04:30.750 --> 04:53.438\n可以,可是這不是中央研究院的任務因為中央研究院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究我們不是在做計轉當然我們也很鼓勵計轉我們也很希望把基礎研究的成果能夠應用到社會但是應用到社會這個本身是比較屬於其他單位的責任我們會鼓勵,我們會朝這方向走但是我們是以創造知識來開發知識的前沿\n\n04:59.220 --> 05:24.657\n這個上次你有跟我分享過我知道但或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了那面對這些數據我想基於國家財政看緊國人的荷包錢要花在刀口上那我個人認為就這一份數據讓我看到可能是出錢的可能你認為是還有待更進一步的去了解但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看結果中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學我希望\n\n05:24.957 --> 05:27.239\n衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制\n\n05:48.138 --> 06:09.154\n院長,尊重市場機制,所以只有把中研院有沒有機會改成拆穿法人：難讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價：決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善：實在達不到社會的期待。我想有些部分應該要做予以調整。你覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應?\n\n06:09.892 --> 06:10.032\n中央研究院院長\n\n06:25.857 --> 06:30.439\n謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應但我以上的言論我要跟您報告我一定要支持你們但是我是探討哪些該檢討\n\n06:52.526 --> 06:52.666\n主席\n\n07:08.814 --> 07:09.334\n我想這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應?\n\n07:26.861 --> 07:27.141\n中央研究院院長\n\n07:44.378 --> 07:49.600\n就我們看到你的業務報告結語有講與時計進的探討社會關鍵的問題善盡社會責任院長以經濟所為例他有盡到探討社會關鍵問題善盡社會責任嗎就剛剛我這樣提應該好像永待加強對嗎\n\n08:03.644 --> 08:06.147\n所以今天我建議改成財團法人好好的和兩個財團法人良性競爭讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學回歸市場機制我想這個部分是一個建議是一個探討\n\n08:24.545 --> 08:39.644\n那最後我想跟您請問一下中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題（激情向政府建言並獲得回應可不可以請院長簡單的舉例五年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟\n\n08:41.281 --> 08:44.022\n提高限職研究人員的薪資,包括中央研究院研究人員及大學教授\n\n09:06.027 --> 09:23.185\n時間有限,我想這些具體的回應有獲得的,你有覺得滿意的,可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下,可以嗎?會後麻煩你整理給我。最後我要再說出,就是再生能源,不管是您所一直在努力的去碳,所謂天然氣這個部分,還有所謂的地熱,還有\n\n09:24.346 --> 09:40.935\n海洋人以及艦動人相關的一些研究我們都非常的關心我想包括我們教育文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究都非常的期待會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討我們也會持續關注中研院的發展好嗎非常感謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.892,"end":14.438,"text":"好 我們有請主席麻煩你幫我要請那個廖院長好 院長 謝謝"},{"start":20.711,"end":41.199,"text":"院長早 院長今天帶著中研院的領帶上次你有跟我分享那很開心有這個機會跟你先期瞭解一下中研院那待會有一些問題會很尖銳那也會希望說能夠参差出一些火花但都是為了國家也更希望能夠教學相長然後一起來探討相關的問題"},{"start":42.259,"end":52.605,"text":"我想2023年10月12日史丹佛大學公布全球前2%的一個頂尖科學家台灣有1447人入榜這一份數據你有掌握嗎?"},{"start":53.823,"end":80.76,"text":"沒有仔細看但是這個已經在學界這個到處都傳很久了好 其中台大呢有308人成大有156人陽明交通有112人清華有92人台科大70人那中研院上次你也有跟我分享沒有教學工作和其他學生輔導種種事情等於就是沒有在經營學校相關的事務"},{"start":81.601,"end":85.43,"text":"但是中央研究院只有63人入榜請問院長你要不要解釋一下"},{"start":86.121,"end":110.936,"text":"我們要看這個百分比．中央研究院總研究人員的人數比較少．而且很多這些數據都是在．比如說理工科．中央研究院有三分之一強的研究人員．是在人文科學方面．這裡面就不列入考量評比．除此之外．我們的人大部分也都在大學有和平課．"},{"start":111.997,"end":113.639,"text":"我個人是這樣認為,就像您常說的"},{"start":134.039,"end":137.402,"text":"總體來說都是台灣人但是我要講的是因為我們大家要知道就像你剛剛講的你也很跟我分享中研院就是沒有在做這樣子相關的一個教學事務"},{"start":159.758,"end":187.339,"text":"那當然你剛剛有提到台大、成大這些可能會有一起合併一起做一些研究那我個人還是覺得因為中央研究院畢竟每年花國家預算130多億結果學術的成果跟台青成交完全不能比連中興大學都58人入榜那我想那這些你所說的這些有合併在聘請這樣子的一個相關的科學員那他就回去大學"},{"start":188.2,"end":209.646,"text":"去工作就好,國家財政有限,大學也可以做學術研究我想這個有幾點要澄清第一個,雖然我們法定任務沒有教學但是大部分我們的研究人員都有在上課都在大學也在合併,也很多在大學開課我們的副院長每個禮拜都要去台大上一門課"},{"start":210.926,"end":233.864,"text":"一份連我們的副院長都在上課所以不能講說我們沒有上課此外呢這個我們的研究成果剛才已經跟這個委員報告我們研究成果大部分也都有掛大學的名字所以不能以這個大學幾人我們幾人我們畢竟我們總共的研究人員人數比大學少很多"},{"start":234.104,"end":244.69,"text":"我想國家每年編列131給中研院,這都是國人辛苦的納稅錢請問院長,不論研究員、副研究員、助理研究員平均一年養一位研究人員大約花多少錢?這你有計算過嗎?"},{"start":245.748,"end":249.932,"text":"國家養一位研究人員投資報酬率是多少?計轉的金額有多少?這可以來計算嗎?"},{"start":270.75,"end":293.438,"text":"可以,可是這不是中央研究院的任務因為中央研究院的法定任務是做基礎學術研究我們不是在做計轉當然我們也很鼓勵計轉我們也很希望把基礎研究的成果能夠應用到社會但是應用到社會這個本身是比較屬於其他單位的責任我們會鼓勵,我們會朝這方向走但是我們是以創造知識來開發知識的前沿"},{"start":299.22,"end":324.657,"text":"這個上次你有跟我分享過我知道但或許你覺得我的問題苛刻了那面對這些數據我想基於國家財政看緊國人的荷包錢要花在刀口上那我個人認為就這一份數據讓我看到可能是出錢的可能你認為是還有待更進一步的去了解但我覺得如果就這一份數據來看結果中研院的學術成果還輸給一般大學我希望"},{"start":324.957,"end":327.239,"text":"衛福部放寬各級診所自行訂定掛號費的理由是尊重市場機制"},{"start":348.138,"end":369.154,"text":"院長,尊重市場機制,所以只有把中研院有沒有機會改成拆穿法人：難讓市場機制還有社會各界的評價：決定中研院哪些該縮編、哪些該改善：實在達不到社會的期待。我想有些部分應該要做予以調整。你覺得這個部分有沒有什麼要回應?"},{"start":369.892,"end":370.032,"text":"中央研究院院長"},{"start":385.857,"end":390.439,"text":"謝謝您這麼正面的一個回應但我以上的言論我要跟您報告我一定要支持你們但是我是探討哪些該檢討"},{"start":412.526,"end":412.666,"text":"主席"},{"start":428.814,"end":429.334,"text":"我想這個部分你有沒有什麼要回應?"},{"start":446.861,"end":447.141,"text":"中央研究院院長"},{"start":464.378,"end":469.6,"text":"就我們看到你的業務報告 結語有講 與時計進的探討社會關鍵的問題 善盡社會責任 院長 以經濟所為例 他有盡到探討社會關鍵問題 善盡社會責任嗎 就剛剛我這樣提 應該好像永待加強 對嗎"},{"start":483.644,"end":486.147,"text":"所以今天我建議改成財團法人好好的和兩個財團法人良性競爭讓經濟也能夠有這樣子的經濟學回歸市場機制我想這個部分是一個建議是一個探討"},{"start":504.545,"end":519.644,"text":"那最後我想跟您請問一下中研院也有說關切我國高教人力的斷層議題（激情向政府建言並獲得回應可不可以請院長簡單的舉例五年內有哪些這樣子的建言有獲得回應的事蹟"},{"start":521.281,"end":524.022,"text":"提高限職研究人員的薪資,包括中央研究院研究人員及大學教授"},{"start":546.027,"end":563.185,"text":"時間有限,我想這些具體的回應有獲得的,你有覺得滿意的,可以把這些相關資料讓我們知道一下,可以嗎?會後麻煩你整理給我。最後我要再說出,就是再生能源,不管是您所一直在努力的去碳,所謂天然氣這個部分,還有所謂的地熱,還有"},{"start":564.346,"end":580.935,"text":"海洋人以及艦動人相關的一些研究我們都非常的關心我想包括我們教育文化委員會的所有委員都對於你們的研究都非常的期待會後希望有機會再跟你做一個探討我們也會持續關注中研院的發展好嗎非常感謝謝謝"}]}}}}