{"id":150082,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150082","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192e901bdb13abcfd621a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a69cea193b8358d2b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:15:57 - 09:25:18","影片長度":"00:09:21","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":561,"end_time":"2024-03-20T09:25:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:15:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":54,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時16分）好，請唐部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長早。剛剛葛委員也提到，大家很關心，我想對於電子簽章，當然你也是行家，但是葛委員也是行家，他點出一個重點，也就是防詐騙這個問題，我要跟你探討的是，它真的是萬靈丹嗎？所以第一個，我比較納悶，這個法在通過以後，難道臉書、LINE、抖音，你跟它的連結性、你跟它的協調，電子簽章法通過以後，就有辦法防止這些網路平臺？你如何去跟它洽商，請他們遵守這個法？這才真正對於防詐是有幫助。所以我要聽聽部長對於這個部分，怎麼會有信心在防詐的部分會有所成效？這是第一。第二，現在推動數位簽證，對於打詐，請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章跟打詐有連結關係？所以部長，我請教這個問題。"],["唐部長鳳：非常謝謝委員的質詢。第一個部分，就有落地的這些大型廣告平臺來說，像剛剛委員提到Google、LINE，當然還有Facebook這部分，我們都已經積極跟他們討論，包含技術的可行性，我們可以看像投信投顧法，就是打詐五法修正通過之後，像投資廣告需要實名制，而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要付連帶賠償責任等等，對於這一部分，大的廣告平臺像Google是已經有符合金管會的這個作法，Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作，所以有落地的，目前配合度看起來是沒有問題。不過委員剛剛提到TikTok，TikTok是沒有落地的，所以這一部分確實可能要輔佐以其他方式，好比像內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的打詐相關的專法，在這邊課予它一定程度上落地的義務，這樣子之後，管理起來才會比較有可能，這是第一部分。","第二個部分，委員有垂詢，我想現在他們所謂的實名認證，大概就是去拍身分證正反面或者護照，然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核，這個問題就是剛才葛委員也有提到的，AI變造變得非常的容易，所以審核的成本不斷增加，我們透過數位簽章的方式，它可以全自動的去審核，而且如果他的詐騙廣告被下架，同一個自然人不管用多少化名，在別的平臺上，也因為我們有一個聯防的機制就可以一起下架，也就會讓我們每天去掃上萬筆的新進廣告，在這個掃描裡面，我們就可以知道哪些有數位簽章，哪些還沒有，然後再來課予平臺責任。"],["林委員國成：對啦！這個是另外一種管理的部分，現在又產生一個問題，難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過，你就沒有辦法跟Google、LINE或者抖音這些群組共同防詐？這個部分你們沒有事先協調，一定要這個法通過以後，你們才有辦法做嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員的問題。其實去年在這邊，我記得是去年6月左右，我就已經有在這邊講我們需要推電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理，主要的原因就是新版的這個法案裡面有提到，如果你採用數位簽章，它推定為本人親自簽名，所以這個法律效力……"],["林委員國成：這個部分是無庸置疑……"],["唐部長鳳：這個法律效力是一個必要條件。"],["林委員國成：你只要有申請的人，一定有這種真人之認定，可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬靈丹。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["林委員國成：你們現在當然希望這個法通過，但是不能騙老百姓說這個法通過以後，詐騙就會……因為現在全民對於防詐這個部分的議題是高度重視的，所以我還是希望你們在發言的時候要把你們的特色講出來，不要把它當成這個法過了以後就是萬靈丹，這個部長我必須要提醒你。"],["唐部長鳳：委員提醒的非常好，我們之後會聚焦在網路廣告平臺的部分。"],["林委員國成：對，所以我們法的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作，這OK，管理可以有什麼嚴謹的管理，這OK，你不要以為這個法通過以後就是防詐的萬靈丹，這一點本席是有質疑的，好不好？","接下來，因為憑證百百種，我相信部長你也知道，可是民眾看了就「霧煞煞」，我覺得憑證很多如內政部的自然人憑證等等，政府也有很多什麼產業憑證一大堆，我要請問一下相容性的問題，也就是說我們這個法、這個電子簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性，你這裡要怎麼做？"],["唐部長鳳：好，委員真的講得非常好，不過我要先講一下，有些像門號認證等等，那個是認身分，它並不是簽章，所以這不是簽章的技術……"],["林委員國成：對，那個OK，那個沒有問題。"],["唐部長鳳：簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織，現在在國際上，我們也透過函釋說像美國的NIST是他們電子簽章這一方面的標準制定者，至於全球的話，ISO是這部分的制定者，我們自己在導入這些自然人憑證、工商憑證的時候，也都是去跟國際的標準接軌，所以委員不用擔心，這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構，事實上，他們也有回訪臺灣來進行討論……"],["林委員國成：部長，可是我們現在的認證是各做各的，只有我們國內就各做各的、各管理各的，各個程序是不一樣，層次是不一樣，所以這個部分，部長，我為什麼要特別提醒你如何把相容性的部分連結起來？不要你做你的，另外又有一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法，所以這個也會很複雜，更何況我必須要提醒你國際的相容性是非常複雜的。","另外一個，因為部長這樣講，我們民意代表發現到問題本來就要提醒部長，該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補，另外一個是我們老百姓，你們專業的都知道，我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章、什麼叫做電子簽章，你要跟老百姓講得很清楚，不要只有我們知道，老百姓不知道，你這個法的普及性跟大家的共識性就會降低，所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章、什麼叫做電子簽章？"],["唐部長鳳：沒問題，電子簽章就是有一份電子文件，然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上，簽了這一個簽名之後，這個簽名不能移到別的文件上，這個部分叫電子簽章。數位簽章是一種電子簽章，它的特色是這個簽名是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構，有點像一個印鑑證明一樣，每個人都可以刻任何名字的章，但是這個章是確保現在只有我能用，所以有類似印鑑證明效力的電子簽章叫做數位簽章。"],["林委員國成：OK，這個部分的資安就很重要，是嗎？不然他什麼都可以詐騙，所以資安就很重要，可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分，沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理，所以部長我必須要提醒，這些簽章都OK，你這個法我們也都同意，但問題是資安的部分你們犯的是管理不夠嚴謹，所以這個部分我必須要提醒部長資安是非常重要的。"],["唐部長鳳：我已經有提示同仁還沒有三讀通過這個法案，我們就先對憑證機構建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度，很謝謝委員提醒。"],["林委員國成：好，最後我再問你，這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者是定期審核發照，這個可以不可以告訴本席？"],["唐部長鳳：是，這個其實法案裡面有寫，就是他要先有一個憑證的安全作業基準，我們隨時發現他沒有合乎這個基準的話，我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的……"],["林委員國成：是啦！是一次性嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：當然不是一次吃到飽，而是隨著技術的增加，比方說量子密碼學等等……"],["林委員國成：那是一年審查一次？"],["唐部長鳳：我們會有一個定期審查的機制。"],["林委員國成：好，這個還是要有一個特別的管理制度，好不好？謝謝主席。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝。"],["主席：林委員發言完畢。現在請林沛祥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150082","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150082","tool":"pyannote","id":"150082-pyannote"},"job_id":"NsjNNMnKZ1PXCcZw","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"end\": 463.703, \"text\": \"沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 448.664, \"end\": 449.565, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 449.565, \"end\": 449.966, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 449.966, \"end\": 450.246, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 450.246, \"end\": 450.346, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 450.346, \"end\": 450.446, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 450.446, \"end\": 450.546, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 450.546, \"end\": 450.647, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 450.647, \"end\": 451.047, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 451.047, \"end\": 451.207, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 451.207, \"end\": 451.468, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"件\", 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461.48, \"end\": 461.981, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 461.981, \"end\": 462.381, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 462.381, \"end\": 462.641, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 462.641, \"end\": 462.761, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 462.761, \"end\": 462.922, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 462.922, \"end\": 463.122, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 463.122, \"end\": 463.302, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 463.302, \"end\": 463.502, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 463.502, \"end\": 463.643, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 463.643, \"end\": 463.683, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 463.683, \"end\": 463.703, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 464.924, \"end\": 487.403, \"text\": \"我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 464.924, \"end\": 465.044, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 465.044, \"end\": 465.224, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 465.224, \"end\": 465.665, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 465.665, \"end\": 465.865, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 465.865, \"end\": 466.025, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 466.025, \"end\": 466.606, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 466.606, \"end\": 466.826, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 466.826, \"end\": 467.266, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 467.266, \"end\": 467.426, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 467.426, \"end\": 467.646, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", 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00:01:07,338\n所以第一個我比較納悶的我們這個法在說通過以後難道說臉書、LINE、抖音你跟他的連結性你跟他的協調你就有辦法電子簽章法通過以後就有辦法去防止這些網路啊平台啊這些你如何去跟他加章說跟我們這個法來遵守所以這個\n\n4\n00:01:08,219 --> 00:01:16,217\n才真正對於皇詐是有幫助啊。所以這個部分我要聽聽部長你如何\n\n5\n00:01:17,758 --> 00:01:39,833\n這個部分怎麼會有信心說在黃柵的部分會有所成效這第一第二現在數位簽證難道說對於打柵請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章是跟有連結關係所以部長我請教這個問題\n\n6\n00:01:41,328 --> 00:01:58,989\n非常謝謝委員的質詢喔第一個部分就是就有落地的這些大型廣告平台來說像剛剛委員提到Google跟Line當然還有Facebook這一部分當然我們都已經積極跟他們來討論包含技術的可行性那我們可以看像投信投股法就打詐無法質疑修正通過之後\n\n7\n00:01:59,830 --> 00:02:21,648\n說上投資廣告需要實名制而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要負連帶賠償責任等等那這一部分大的廣告平台像Google是已經有符合經院會的這個做法那Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作所以有落地的目前配合度看起來是沒有問題不過委員剛剛提到TikTok那TikTok是沒有落地的所以這一部分確實可能要輔助以好比像說\n\n8\n00:02:22,588 --> 00:02:51,654\n內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的答詐相關的一個專法那在這邊克與他一定程度上落地的義務這樣子之後再管理起來才會比較有可能這第一部分那第二個部分委員有垂詢就是我想現在他們所謂的實名認證大概就是去拍這個身份認證反面或者護照然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核那這個問題就是說剛才這個各位也有提到AI變造變得非常的容易所以審核的成本不斷增加\n\n9\n00:03:16,610 --> 00:03:36,452\n現在又產生一個問題難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過然後你就沒有辦法跟這些google啊或者LINE啊或者這些抖音這些群組你們沒有辦法去跟共同黃柵的這個部分你們沒有做事先協調一定要這個法通過以後你們才有辦法做嗎\n\n10\n00:03:38,635 --> 00:03:55,537\n我們其實去年喔,去年在這邊,去年我記得是6月左右我就已經有在這邊講說我們需要推這個電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理主要的原因就是我們新版的這個法案裡面有說如果你採用數位簽章,它推定為本人親自簽名\n\n11\n00:03:56,318 --> 00:04:23,605\n所以這個法律效力是一個必要條件你只要有申請的人一定有這種真人之認定可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬能當所以你們現在當然希望這個法通過但是不能騙老百姓說我這個法通過以後這個詐騙就會因為現在前面對於防詐這個部分的議題\n\n12\n00:04:24,525 --> 00:04:40,361\n是高度重視的所以我還是希望你們在花園的部分要把你們的特色講出來不要把它當成這個華過了以後就是萬年單這個部長我必須要提醒你我們之後會就是聚焦在網路廣告平台的部分\n\n13\n00:04:40,962 --> 00:05:06,336\n所以我們的華的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作這OK管理可以有什麼這個嚴謹的管理OK你不要把他這個華通過以後就是防炸的萬靈丹這一點本席是有質疑的好不好好接下來因為當然啦這個這個憑證百百種我相信部長你也知道可是民眾看了就不傻傻啦\n\n14\n00:05:07,797 --> 00:05:21,068\n所以我是覺得這個憑證很多嘛內政部的自由憑證等等政府也有很多的什麼產業憑證一大堆我要請問一下相容性的問題\n\n15\n00:05:22,449 --> 00:05:42,611\n也就是說我們這個華我們這個電子簽那個簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性你這裡怎麼做我已經講的真的非常好不過先講一下就有些像能耗認證等等那個是認身份他並不是簽章對那個沒有問題對\n\n16\n00:05:44,733 --> 00:06:07,897\n那簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織現在在國際上我們也透過韓式說像美國的NIST是他們這一方面電子箱的標準制定者那全球的話像ISO是這一部分的制定者我們自己在導入這些自然憑證、工商憑證的時候也都是去跟國際的標準接軌所以我們不用擔心就是這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構是讓他們也有回訪台灣可是我們現在的認證那個部長現在我們的認證\n\n17\n00:06:11,969 --> 00:06:39,302\n是各做各的喔只有我們國內就各做各的喔各管理各的喔各的程序是不一樣層次是不一樣所以這個部分部長所以我為什麼要特別去提醒你如何去如何去把它那個相容性這個部分去把它連結起來不要你做你的另外又一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法所以這個也會很複雜的\n\n18\n00:06:41,283 --> 00:07:00,508\n更何況我必須要去提醒國際的相容性是非常複雜的那另外一個啦當然因為部長你這樣講因為我們民意代表本來發現的問題要提醒給部長該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補那另外一個就是\n\n19\n00:07:01,608 --> 00:07:27,899\n我們老百姓啊你們專業的都知道我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章你要跟老百姓講得很清楚不要只有我們知道老百姓不知道你這個法的普及性跟你這個法大家共識性就會降低所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章\n\n20\n00:07:28,664 --> 00:07:43,703\n沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢\n\n21\n00:07:44,924 --> 00:08:07,403\n我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙\n\n22\n00:08:08,504 --> 00:08:31,917\n那資安就很重要可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理所以部長我必須要去提醒這些簽章都OK你這個法我們也都同意但是問題資安的部分你們換的是管理不過嚴謹所以這個部分我必須要去提醒部長\n\n23\n00:08:33,318 --> 00:08:56,597\n我已經有提示同仁還沒有三度通過這個法案我們就先對憑證機構來建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度很謝謝委員提醒好這個部分最後我還在問問一點你這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者定期審核花照這個可不可以告訴本席\n\n24\n00:08:56,937 --> 00:09:19,964\n是,這個其實法案裏面有寫就是說他要先有一個憑證的這個安全作業基準那我們隨時發現說他沒有合乎這個基準的話那這個我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的要求是啦,是一致性嗎當然不是一次吃到飽而是說隨著技術增加或比方說面子、密碼學等等我們會有一個定期審查一個機制好,這個特別還是要有一個管理制度啦好不好好,謝謝主席謝謝,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11192\t13316\t好,請唐部長請部長委員好\n19329\t39885\t好,部長早,剛剛葛委員也提到大家很關心我想你對這個電子簽章啊當然你也是行家但是葛委員也是行家他點出一個重點也就是說黃詐騙這個問題我要跟你探討的他真的是萬靈丹嘛\n41906\t67338\t所以第一個我比較納悶的我們這個法在說通過以後難道說臉書、LINE、抖音你跟他的連結性你跟他的協調你就有辦法電子簽章法通過以後就有辦法去防止這些網路啊平台啊這些你如何去跟他加章說跟我們這個法來遵守所以這個\n68219\t76217\t才真正對於皇詐是有幫助啊。所以這個部分我要聽聽部長你如何\n77758\t99833\t這個部分怎麼會有信心說在黃柵的部分會有所成效這第一第二現在數位簽證難道說對於打柵請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章是跟有連結關係所以部長我請教這個問題\n101328\t118989\t非常謝謝委員的質詢喔第一個部分就是就有落地的這些大型廣告平台來說像剛剛委員提到Google跟Line當然還有Facebook這一部分當然我們都已經積極跟他們來討論包含技術的可行性那我們可以看像投信投股法就打詐無法質疑修正通過之後\n119830\t141648\t說上投資廣告需要實名制而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要負連帶賠償責任等等那這一部分大的廣告平台像Google是已經有符合經院會的這個做法那Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作所以有落地的目前配合度看起來是沒有問題不過委員剛剛提到TikTok那TikTok是沒有落地的所以這一部分確實可能要輔助以好比像說\n142588\t171654\t內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的答詐相關的一個專法那在這邊克與他一定程度上落地的義務這樣子之後再管理起來才會比較有可能這第一部分那第二個部分委員有垂詢就是我想現在他們所謂的實名認證大概就是去拍這個身份認證反面或者護照然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核那這個問題就是說剛才這個各位也有提到AI變造變得非常的容易所以審核的成本不斷增加\n171954\t196169\t﹏﹏﹏\n196610\t216452\t現在又產生一個問題難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過然後你就沒有辦法跟這些google啊或者LINE啊或者這些抖音這些群組你們沒有辦法去跟共同黃柵的這個部分你們沒有做事先協調一定要這個法通過以後你們才有辦法做嗎\n218635\t235537\t我們其實去年喔,去年在這邊,去年我記得是6月左右我就已經有在這邊講說我們需要推這個電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理主要的原因就是我們新版的這個法案裡面有說如果你採用數位簽章,它推定為本人親自簽名\n236318\t263605\t所以這個法律效力是一個必要條件你只要有申請的人一定有這種真人之認定可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬能當所以你們現在當然希望這個法通過但是不能騙老百姓說我這個法通過以後這個詐騙就會因為現在前面對於防詐這個部分的議題\n264525\t280361\t是高度重視的所以我還是希望你們在花園的部分要把你們的特色講出來不要把它當成這個華過了以後就是萬年單這個部長我必須要提醒你我們之後會就是聚焦在網路廣告平台的部分\n280962\t306336\t所以我們的華的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作這OK管理可以有什麼這個嚴謹的管理OK你不要把他這個華通過以後就是防炸的萬靈丹這一點本席是有質疑的好不好好接下來因為當然啦這個這個憑證百百種我相信部長你也知道可是民眾看了就不傻傻啦\n307797\t321068\t所以我是覺得這個憑證很多嘛內政部的自由憑證等等政府也有很多的什麼產業憑證一大堆我要請問一下相容性的問題\n322449\t342611\t也就是說我們這個華我們這個電子簽那個簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性你這裡怎麼做我已經講的真的非常好不過先講一下就有些像能耗認證等等那個是認身份他並不是簽章對那個沒有問題對\n344733\t367897\t那簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織現在在國際上我們也透過韓式說像美國的NIST是他們這一方面電子箱的標準制定者那全球的話像ISO是這一部分的制定者我們自己在導入這些自然憑證、工商憑證的時候也都是去跟國際的標準接軌所以我們不用擔心就是這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構是讓他們也有回訪台灣可是我們現在的認證那個部長現在我們的認證\n371969\t399302\t是各做各的喔只有我們國內就各做各的喔各管理各的喔各的程序是不一樣層次是不一樣所以這個部分部長所以我為什麼要特別去提醒你如何去如何去把它那個相容性這個部分去把它連結起來不要你做你的另外又一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法所以這個也會很複雜的\n401283\t420508\t更何況我必須要去提醒國際的相容性是非常複雜的那另外一個啦當然因為部長你這樣講因為我們民意代表本來發現的問題要提醒給部長該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補那另外一個就是\n421608\t447899\t我們老百姓啊你們專業的都知道我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章你要跟老百姓講得很清楚不要只有我們知道老百姓不知道你這個法的普及性跟你這個法大家共識性就會降低所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章\n448664\t463703\t沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢\n464924\t487403\t我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙\n488504\t511917\t那資安就很重要可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理所以部長我必須要去提醒這些簽章都OK你這個法我們也都同意但是問題資安的部分你們換的是管理不過嚴謹所以這個部分我必須要去提醒部長\n513318\t536597\t我已經有提示同仁還沒有三度通過這個法案我們就先對憑證機構來建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度很謝謝委員提醒好這個部分最後我還在問問一點你這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者定期審核花照這個可不可以告訴本席\n536937\t559964\t是,這個其實法案裏面有寫就是說他要先有一個憑證的這個安全作業基準那我們隨時發現說他沒有合乎這個基準的話那這個我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的要求是啦,是一致性嗎當然不是一次吃到飽而是說隨著技術增加或比方說面子、密碼學等等我們會有一個定期審查一個機制好,這個特別還是要有一個管理制度啦好不好好,謝謝主席謝謝,謝謝\n","txt":"好,請唐部長請部長委員好\n好,部長早,剛剛葛委員也提到大家很關心我想你對這個電子簽章啊當然你也是行家但是葛委員也是行家他點出一個重點也就是說黃詐騙這個問題我要跟你探討的他真的是萬靈丹嘛\n所以第一個我比較納悶的我們這個法在說通過以後難道說臉書、LINE、抖音你跟他的連結性你跟他的協調你就有辦法電子簽章法通過以後就有辦法去防止這些網路啊平台啊這些你如何去跟他加章說跟我們這個法來遵守所以這個\n才真正對於皇詐是有幫助啊。所以這個部分我要聽聽部長你如何\n這個部分怎麼會有信心說在黃柵的部分會有所成效這第一第二現在數位簽證難道說對於打柵請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章是跟有連結關係所以部長我請教這個問題\n非常謝謝委員的質詢喔第一個部分就是就有落地的這些大型廣告平台來說像剛剛委員提到Google跟Line當然還有Facebook這一部分當然我們都已經積極跟他們來討論包含技術的可行性那我們可以看像投信投股法就打詐無法質疑修正通過之後\n說上投資廣告需要實名制而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要負連帶賠償責任等等那這一部分大的廣告平台像Google是已經有符合經院會的這個做法那Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作所以有落地的目前配合度看起來是沒有問題不過委員剛剛提到TikTok那TikTok是沒有落地的所以這一部分確實可能要輔助以好比像說\n內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的答詐相關的一個專法那在這邊克與他一定程度上落地的義務這樣子之後再管理起來才會比較有可能這第一部分那第二個部分委員有垂詢就是我想現在他們所謂的實名認證大概就是去拍這個身份認證反面或者護照然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核那這個問題就是說剛才這個各位也有提到AI變造變得非常的容易所以審核的成本不斷增加\n﹏﹏﹏\n現在又產生一個問題難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過然後你就沒有辦法跟這些google啊或者LINE啊或者這些抖音這些群組你們沒有辦法去跟共同黃柵的這個部分你們沒有做事先協調一定要這個法通過以後你們才有辦法做嗎\n我們其實去年喔,去年在這邊,去年我記得是6月左右我就已經有在這邊講說我們需要推這個電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理主要的原因就是我們新版的這個法案裡面有說如果你採用數位簽章,它推定為本人親自簽名\n所以這個法律效力是一個必要條件你只要有申請的人一定有這種真人之認定可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬能當所以你們現在當然希望這個法通過但是不能騙老百姓說我這個法通過以後這個詐騙就會因為現在前面對於防詐這個部分的議題\n是高度重視的所以我還是希望你們在花園的部分要把你們的特色講出來不要把它當成這個華過了以後就是萬年單這個部長我必須要提醒你我們之後會就是聚焦在網路廣告平台的部分\n所以我們的華的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作這OK管理可以有什麼這個嚴謹的管理OK你不要把他這個華通過以後就是防炸的萬靈丹這一點本席是有質疑的好不好好接下來因為當然啦這個這個憑證百百種我相信部長你也知道可是民眾看了就不傻傻啦\n所以我是覺得這個憑證很多嘛內政部的自由憑證等等政府也有很多的什麼產業憑證一大堆我要請問一下相容性的問題\n也就是說我們這個華我們這個電子簽那個簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性你這裡怎麼做我已經講的真的非常好不過先講一下就有些像能耗認證等等那個是認身份他並不是簽章對那個沒有問題對\n那簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織現在在國際上我們也透過韓式說像美國的NIST是他們這一方面電子箱的標準制定者那全球的話像ISO是這一部分的制定者我們自己在導入這些自然憑證、工商憑證的時候也都是去跟國際的標準接軌所以我們不用擔心就是這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構是讓他們也有回訪台灣可是我們現在的認證那個部長現在我們的認證\n是各做各的喔只有我們國內就各做各的喔各管理各的喔各的程序是不一樣層次是不一樣所以這個部分部長所以我為什麼要特別去提醒你如何去如何去把它那個相容性這個部分去把它連結起來不要你做你的另外又一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法所以這個也會很複雜的\n更何況我必須要去提醒國際的相容性是非常複雜的那另外一個啦當然因為部長你這樣講因為我們民意代表本來發現的問題要提醒給部長該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補那另外一個就是\n我們老百姓啊你們專業的都知道我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章你要跟老百姓講得很清楚不要只有我們知道老百姓不知道你這個法的普及性跟你這個法大家共識性就會降低所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章\n沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢\n我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙\n那資安就很重要可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理所以部長我必須要去提醒這些簽章都OK你這個法我們也都同意但是問題資安的部分你們換的是管理不過嚴謹所以這個部分我必須要去提醒部長\n我已經有提示同仁還沒有三度通過這個法案我們就先對憑證機構來建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度很謝謝委員提醒好這個部分最後我還在問問一點你這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者定期審核花照這個可不可以告訴本席\n是,這個其實法案裏面有寫就是說他要先有一個憑證的這個安全作業基準那我們隨時發現說他沒有合乎這個基準的話那這個我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的要求是啦,是一致性嗎當然不是一次吃到飽而是說隨著技術增加或比方說面子、密碼學等等我們會有一個定期審查一個機制好,這個特別還是要有一個管理制度啦好不好好,謝謝主席謝謝,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.192 --> 00:13.316\n好,請唐部長請部長委員好\n\n00:19.329 --> 00:39.885\n好,部長早,剛剛葛委員也提到大家很關心我想你對這個電子簽章啊當然你也是行家但是葛委員也是行家他點出一個重點也就是說黃詐騙這個問題我要跟你探討的他真的是萬靈丹嘛\n\n00:41.906 --> 01:07.338\n所以第一個我比較納悶的我們這個法在說通過以後難道說臉書、LINE、抖音你跟他的連結性你跟他的協調你就有辦法電子簽章法通過以後就有辦法去防止這些網路啊平台啊這些你如何去跟他加章說跟我們這個法來遵守所以這個\n\n01:08.219 --> 01:16.217\n才真正對於皇詐是有幫助啊。所以這個部分我要聽聽部長你如何\n\n01:17.758 --> 01:39.833\n這個部分怎麼會有信心說在黃柵的部分會有所成效這第一第二現在數位簽證難道說對於打柵請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章是跟有連結關係所以部長我請教這個問題\n\n01:41.328 --> 01:58.989\n非常謝謝委員的質詢喔第一個部分就是就有落地的這些大型廣告平台來說像剛剛委員提到Google跟Line當然還有Facebook這一部分當然我們都已經積極跟他們來討論包含技術的可行性那我們可以看像投信投股法就打詐無法質疑修正通過之後\n\n01:59.830 --> 02:21.648\n說上投資廣告需要實名制而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要負連帶賠償責任等等那這一部分大的廣告平台像Google是已經有符合經院會的這個做法那Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作所以有落地的目前配合度看起來是沒有問題不過委員剛剛提到TikTok那TikTok是沒有落地的所以這一部分確實可能要輔助以好比像說\n\n02:22.588 --> 02:51.654\n內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的答詐相關的一個專法那在這邊克與他一定程度上落地的義務這樣子之後再管理起來才會比較有可能這第一部分那第二個部分委員有垂詢就是我想現在他們所謂的實名認證大概就是去拍這個身份認證反面或者護照然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核那這個問題就是說剛才這個各位也有提到AI變造變得非常的容易所以審核的成本不斷增加\n\n03:16.610 --> 03:36.452\n現在又產生一個問題難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過然後你就沒有辦法跟這些google啊或者LINE啊或者這些抖音這些群組你們沒有辦法去跟共同黃柵的這個部分你們沒有做事先協調一定要這個法通過以後你們才有辦法做嗎\n\n03:38.635 --> 03:55.537\n我們其實去年喔,去年在這邊,去年我記得是6月左右我就已經有在這邊講說我們需要推這個電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理主要的原因就是我們新版的這個法案裡面有說如果你採用數位簽章,它推定為本人親自簽名\n\n03:56.318 --> 04:23.605\n所以這個法律效力是一個必要條件你只要有申請的人一定有這種真人之認定可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬能當所以你們現在當然希望這個法通過但是不能騙老百姓說我這個法通過以後這個詐騙就會因為現在前面對於防詐這個部分的議題\n\n04:24.525 --> 04:40.361\n是高度重視的所以我還是希望你們在花園的部分要把你們的特色講出來不要把它當成這個華過了以後就是萬年單這個部長我必須要提醒你我們之後會就是聚焦在網路廣告平台的部分\n\n04:40.962 --> 05:06.336\n所以我們的華的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作這OK管理可以有什麼這個嚴謹的管理OK你不要把他這個華通過以後就是防炸的萬靈丹這一點本席是有質疑的好不好好接下來因為當然啦這個這個憑證百百種我相信部長你也知道可是民眾看了就不傻傻啦\n\n05:07.797 --> 05:21.068\n所以我是覺得這個憑證很多嘛內政部的自由憑證等等政府也有很多的什麼產業憑證一大堆我要請問一下相容性的問題\n\n05:22.449 --> 05:42.611\n也就是說我們這個華我們這個電子簽那個簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性你這裡怎麼做我已經講的真的非常好不過先講一下就有些像能耗認證等等那個是認身份他並不是簽章對那個沒有問題對\n\n05:44.733 --> 06:07.897\n那簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織現在在國際上我們也透過韓式說像美國的NIST是他們這一方面電子箱的標準制定者那全球的話像ISO是這一部分的制定者我們自己在導入這些自然憑證、工商憑證的時候也都是去跟國際的標準接軌所以我們不用擔心就是這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構是讓他們也有回訪台灣可是我們現在的認證那個部長現在我們的認證\n\n06:11.969 --> 06:39.302\n是各做各的喔只有我們國內就各做各的喔各管理各的喔各的程序是不一樣層次是不一樣所以這個部分部長所以我為什麼要特別去提醒你如何去如何去把它那個相容性這個部分去把它連結起來不要你做你的另外又一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法所以這個也會很複雜的\n\n06:41.283 --> 07:00.508\n更何況我必須要去提醒國際的相容性是非常複雜的那另外一個啦當然因為部長你這樣講因為我們民意代表本來發現的問題要提醒給部長該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補那另外一個就是\n\n07:01.608 --> 07:27.899\n我們老百姓啊你們專業的都知道我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章你要跟老百姓講得很清楚不要只有我們知道老百姓不知道你這個法的普及性跟你這個法大家共識性就會降低所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章\n\n07:28.664 --> 07:43.703\n沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢\n\n07:44.924 --> 08:07.403\n我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙\n\n08:08.504 --> 08:31.917\n那資安就很重要可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理所以部長我必須要去提醒這些簽章都OK你這個法我們也都同意但是問題資安的部分你們換的是管理不過嚴謹所以這個部分我必須要去提醒部長\n\n08:33.318 --> 08:56.597\n我已經有提示同仁還沒有三度通過這個法案我們就先對憑證機構來建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度很謝謝委員提醒好這個部分最後我還在問問一點你這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者定期審核花照這個可不可以告訴本席\n\n08:56.937 --> 09:19.964\n是,這個其實法案裏面有寫就是說他要先有一個憑證的這個安全作業基準那我們隨時發現說他沒有合乎這個基準的話那這個我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的要求是啦,是一致性嗎當然不是一次吃到飽而是說隨著技術增加或比方說面子、密碼學等等我們會有一個定期審查一個機制好,這個特別還是要有一個管理制度啦好不好好,謝謝主席謝謝,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.192,"end":13.316,"text":"好,請唐部長請部長委員好"},{"start":19.329,"end":39.885,"text":"好,部長早,剛剛葛委員也提到大家很關心我想你對這個電子簽章啊當然你也是行家但是葛委員也是行家他點出一個重點也就是說黃詐騙這個問題我要跟你探討的他真的是萬靈丹嘛"},{"start":41.906,"end":67.338,"text":"所以第一個我比較納悶的我們這個法在說通過以後難道說臉書、LINE、抖音你跟他的連結性你跟他的協調你就有辦法電子簽章法通過以後就有辦法去防止這些網路啊平台啊這些你如何去跟他加章說跟我們這個法來遵守所以這個"},{"start":68.219,"end":76.217,"text":"才真正對於皇詐是有幫助啊。所以這個部分我要聽聽部長你如何"},{"start":77.758,"end":99.833,"text":"這個部分怎麼會有信心說在黃柵的部分會有所成效這第一第二現在數位簽證難道說對於打柵請問這些憑證是不是數位簽章是跟有連結關係所以部長我請教這個問題"},{"start":101.328,"end":118.989,"text":"非常謝謝委員的質詢喔第一個部分就是就有落地的這些大型廣告平台來說像剛剛委員提到Google跟Line當然還有Facebook這一部分當然我們都已經積極跟他們來討論包含技術的可行性那我們可以看像投信投股法就打詐無法質疑修正通過之後"},{"start":119.83,"end":141.648,"text":"說上投資廣告需要實名制而且24小時之內如果檢舉後不下架要負連帶賠償責任等等那這一部分大的廣告平台像Google是已經有符合經院會的這個做法那Facebook也說接下來幾個月就會來實作所以有落地的目前配合度看起來是沒有問題不過委員剛剛提到TikTok那TikTok是沒有落地的所以這一部分確實可能要輔助以好比像說"},{"start":142.588,"end":171.654,"text":"內政部目前正在跟我們研擬的答詐相關的一個專法那在這邊克與他一定程度上落地的義務這樣子之後再管理起來才會比較有可能這第一部分那第二個部分委員有垂詢就是我想現在他們所謂的實名認證大概就是去拍這個身份認證反面或者護照然後透過人工或半人工的方式來審核那這個問題就是說剛才這個各位也有提到AI變造變得非常的容易所以審核的成本不斷增加"},{"start":171.954,"end":196.169,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":196.61,"end":216.452,"text":"現在又產生一個問題難道我們數位簽證法沒有通過然後你就沒有辦法跟這些google啊或者LINE啊或者這些抖音這些群組你們沒有辦法去跟共同黃柵的這個部分你們沒有做事先協調一定要這個法通過以後你們才有辦法做嗎"},{"start":218.635,"end":235.537,"text":"我們其實去年喔,去年在這邊,去年我記得是6月左右我就已經有在這邊講說我們需要推這個電子簽章來進行事前的源頭管理主要的原因就是我們新版的這個法案裡面有說如果你採用數位簽章,它推定為本人親自簽名"},{"start":236.318,"end":263.605,"text":"所以這個法律效力是一個必要條件你只要有申請的人一定有這種真人之認定可是詐騙並非是只有這樣就把它視為萬能當所以你們現在當然希望這個法通過但是不能騙老百姓說我這個法通過以後這個詐騙就會因為現在前面對於防詐這個部分的議題"},{"start":264.525,"end":280.361,"text":"是高度重視的所以我還是希望你們在花園的部分要把你們的特色講出來不要把它當成這個華過了以後就是萬年單這個部長我必須要提醒你我們之後會就是聚焦在網路廣告平台的部分"},{"start":280.962,"end":306.336,"text":"所以我們的華的特色可以做到什麼防備的動作這OK管理可以有什麼這個嚴謹的管理OK你不要把他這個華通過以後就是防炸的萬靈丹這一點本席是有質疑的好不好好接下來因為當然啦這個這個憑證百百種我相信部長你也知道可是民眾看了就不傻傻啦"},{"start":307.797,"end":321.068,"text":"所以我是覺得這個憑證很多嘛內政部的自由憑證等等政府也有很多的什麼產業憑證一大堆我要請問一下相容性的問題"},{"start":322.449,"end":342.611,"text":"也就是說我們這個華我們這個電子簽那個簽證以後跟國際的相容性還有國內的相容性你這裡怎麼做我已經講的真的非常好不過先講一下就有些像能耗認證等等那個是認身份他並不是簽章對那個沒有問題對"},{"start":344.733,"end":367.897,"text":"那簽章技術要互認就是要靠國際標準組織現在在國際上我們也透過韓式說像美國的NIST是他們這一方面電子箱的標準制定者那全球的話像ISO是這一部分的制定者我們自己在導入這些自然憑證、工商憑證的時候也都是去跟國際的標準接軌所以我們不用擔心就是這一部分我們會跟國際的標準機構是讓他們也有回訪台灣可是我們現在的認證那個部長現在我們的認證"},{"start":371.969,"end":399.302,"text":"是各做各的喔只有我們國內就各做各的喔各管理各的喔各的程序是不一樣層次是不一樣所以這個部分部長所以我為什麼要特別去提醒你如何去如何去把它那個相容性這個部分去把它連結起來不要你做你的另外又一個新的電子簽證的另外一套管理辦法所以這個也會很複雜的"},{"start":401.283,"end":420.508,"text":"更何況我必須要去提醒國際的相容性是非常複雜的那另外一個啦當然因為部長你這樣講因為我們民意代表本來發現的問題要提醒給部長該修的、該講的、該補的當然就要去補那另外一個就是"},{"start":421.608,"end":447.899,"text":"我們老百姓啊你們專業的都知道我們立法委員也知道什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章你要跟老百姓講得很清楚不要只有我們知道老百姓不知道你這個法的普及性跟你這個法大家共識性就會降低所以能不能跟所有全國老百姓講什麼叫做數位簽章什麼叫做電子簽章"},{"start":448.664,"end":463.703,"text":"沒問題電子簽章就是有一份電子文件然後我用某種方式附著在這個文件上簽了這個簽名之後這個簽名不能移到別的文件上這個部分叫電子簽章數位簽章是一種電子簽章它的特色是我這個簽名呢"},{"start":464.924,"end":487.403,"text":"我是透過像政府機關等等認可的這些憑證機構有點像一個硬件證明一樣來確保說每個人都可以刻任何名字的章嘛那但是這個章呢現在是只有我能用所以就是有類似硬件證明效力的電子簽章法叫數位簽章OK來這個部分那治安就很重要囉是嗎啊不然他什麼都可以詐騙"},{"start":488.504,"end":511.917,"text":"那資安就很重要可是我看到你們這裡資安的部分沒有什麼嚴謹的資安管理所以部長我必須要去提醒這些簽章都OK你這個法我們也都同意但是問題資安的部分你們換的是管理不過嚴謹所以這個部分我必須要去提醒部長"},{"start":513.318,"end":536.597,"text":"我已經有提示同仁還沒有三度通過這個法案我們就先對憑證機構來建立這樣子的登錄跟管理的制度很謝謝委員提醒好這個部分最後我還在問問一點你這個憑證機構的監督到底是一次性的許可或者定期審核花照這個可不可以告訴本席"},{"start":536.937,"end":559.964,"text":"是,這個其實法案裏面有寫就是說他要先有一個憑證的這個安全作業基準那我們隨時發現說他沒有合乎這個基準的話那這個我們就可以撤銷對於這個憑證機構的要求是啦,是一致性嗎當然不是一次吃到飽而是說隨著技術增加或比方說面子、密碼學等等我們會有一個定期審查一個機制好,這個特別還是要有一個管理制度啦好不好好,謝謝主席謝謝,謝謝"}]}}}}