{"id":150084,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150084","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192aed436bc9088ddd81a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a6f2eb115a571346e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"09:34:12 - 09:43:13","影片長度":"00:09:01","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":541,"end_time":"2024-03-20T09:43:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:34:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":146,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時34分）謝謝何欣純主席。請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["唐部長鳳：召委好。"],["李委員昆澤：部長好。電子簽章法在2001年公布，於2002年實施，已經超過二十多年沒有修訂，我們看到現在由於國內外資通訊技術提升、網路普及、民眾生活型態改變，再加上政府施政以及相關企業對於效率的追求與提升，所以電子文件跟電子簽章的使用與需求也日益增加，也提升其重要性。我們看到這一次電子簽章法的相關修訂，主要是要促進資料傳輸、文件往返效率能夠提升，也促進數位金融、電子交易的發展，另外有一個很重要的，就是讓平台業者便於進行客戶確認，就是所謂的KYC，以減少相關的詐騙廣告。","在這部分我要請教一下比較細節的問題，針對修法的內容，我們看到修正條文的第一條第二項，就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定，我認為它的定義不是很清楚，定義不明，因為司法程序是否包含和、調解的程序，或者是和解契約的簽署？因為我們在這個說明裡面只看到訴訟的類型，但是對於程序內容部分沒有任何的說明。電子簽章法主要是以促進智慧政府跟數位轉型為重要目標，依賴大量紙本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要，我是這樣認為，但反而修法來幫司法院解套，排除所有司法程序的適用嗎？先請部長說明一下，也請司法院張法官等一下做補充說明。請部長先說明。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝召委的垂詢。以我的理解，因為電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用時就可以來使用電子文件，但是在司法程序上面，因為它要發生效力，發生效力的前提條件是必須明確的在法令裡面規定，跟電子簽章法要雙方合意的概念有點不同。細節是不是可以請司法院同仁補充？"],["李委員昆澤：請張法官補充說明。"],["張法官宇葭：委員好。就委員垂詢的司法程序部分，大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的，就是司法程序有其特殊性，因為司法程序其實本來性質就蠻多，譬如民事訴訟是在解決人民私權，但是刑事訴訟是涉及到人身自由的拘束，會有一些刑事的強制處分，所以各個程序的要件都不同，如果統一全部一起匡進去要適用的話，在執行上是會有困難。我們現行也不是沒有在推行任何的電子訴訟，比如剛才司法院報告裡頭有講的，像憲法訴訟有推行電子訴訟，那它就有科技設備傳送辦法。至於民事訴訟部分，其實也有科技設備傳送辦法，我們也都有設置平台，這個部分在技術上應該不會有問題。"],["李委員昆澤：當然目前看起來是司法院沒有納入電子簽章法裡面，但是除了包含各個司法的相關類型之外，我們對於部分的程序跟內容其實還是可以再進一步的討論。"],["張法官宇葭：是。"],["李委員昆澤：先謝謝張法官。另外我請教一下部長，我們的第十九條有訂定3年條款，是給相關機關廢止排除適用本法的規定，第十九條規定所排除的機關項目，中央機關（含五院）高達2,133項、地方政府227項。我認為行政機關應該作為數位轉型相關政策的領頭羊，但是修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2,000項的排除適用項目，我們經過20年要修訂電子簽章法，卻給一個寬鬆的過渡期，我覺得這個有爭議，為什麼要3年才能完成，過渡期的癥結在哪裡？請部長說明一下。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝召委。有兩個原因，一個是如果他們需要編列相關預算的話，特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理，而這個辦理本來就有大概1年左右的前期作業期程，所以到實際大家用得到可能就已經接近2年了，這是第一個。第二個是如果要排除適用，它還想繼續排除適用就必須以法律定之，就是要寫在法律裡，某件事情因為什麼原因不能適用電子簽章跟文件，但這個立法的期程可能也不是1年就能夠完成，所以我們主要受到……當然我們會儘量去搭配……"],["李委員昆澤：這個我們自己本身都要檢討，因為我們在提升政府施政的效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業數位應用的發展過程裡面，行政部門卻是給自己3年這樣寬鬆的過渡期，我們必須要深切的檢討，這個部分我們再找時間來跟部長討論。另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的申請門檻，第十五條規定，外國憑證機構在現行的規定是安全條件相當跟國際互惠加上許可，還有與我國憑證機關所簽發的憑證有同等的效力，而我們現在的修正草案是安全條件相當加上國際互惠再加上許可，安全條件也要相當，再加上技術對接，再加上許可，這個會與我國憑證機關所簽發的憑證有同等的效力，但是這個技術對接的定義必須要更清楚，因為只是一個名詞而已。部長，請說明清楚所謂的技術對接。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝召委。我們特別指的就是……"],["李委員昆澤：張法官先請回座。"],["唐部長鳳：就是國際標準組織好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST，或者是全球的ISO，實際上，我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章，我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認，Adobe的簽章我們現在也有一個認許的程序，但這個程序並不是傳統上國際好比像Adobe去找美國跟我們簽一個條約，而是說實際上去簽發這個憑證機構以及它的技術相關的機構像NIST，跟我們中間有一個技術上面的對接，所以這是以國際標準來進行……"],["李委員昆澤：當然臺灣現在有自己的憑證認證機構，我們目前有兩家，就是中華電信還有國際網路認證股份有限公司，它其實認定還算嚴謹吧！因為只有兩家，而且要受主管機關的要求，落實內稽內控或者是外稽外控的部分，就是看起來入口比較窄，但是它監理比較容易，而且管理密度也比較高。現行的第十五條，基於國際互惠，讓外國機構可以申請，申請國家也比較少啦！因為國際互惠的門檻也高啦！"],["唐部長鳳：就是要簽約。"],["李委員昆澤：因為入口窄，監理難，因為都在外國嘛！而我們現在的修正版是基於國際互惠或者是技術對接，技術對接沒有定義，剛才部長也做初步的說明，因為它的概念比較抽象，我認為是過度的放鬆，會變成入口比較寬，監理比較困難，因為都在外國，所以門檻放寬，監理困難，如何確保許可後的資通安全是一個重要的議題。部長，最後的時間讓你簡單說明。"],["唐部長鳳：好，謝謝，非常好的提醒。我們在子法、配套裡面會把技術對接講得更清楚，但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄，接下來進行逐條的時候，我們很願意來討論。"],["李委員昆澤：好，今天只是詢答，進行逐條的時候再跟部長做進一步的討論。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝召委。"],["主席（李委員昆澤）：現在請廖先翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150084","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150084","tool":"pyannote","id":"150084-pyannote"},"job_id":"suUmwJ2NryQxP8ud","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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116.634, \"end\": 116.774, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 116.774, \"end\": 117.095, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 117.095, \"end\": 117.315, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 117.315, \"end\": 117.595, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 117.595, \"end\": 117.975, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 117.975, \"end\": 118.135, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 118.135, \"end\": 118.275, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 118.275, \"end\": 118.415, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 118.415, \"end\": 118.775, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 118.775, \"end\": 118.935, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 118.935, \"end\": 119.095, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 119.095, \"end\": 119.295, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 119.295, \"end\": 119.455, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": 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00:01:03,183\n而以及相關企業的他們的這種效率的追求提升啊所以電子文件跟電子簽章啊他的使用跟需求啊也日益的增加也提升他的一個重要性那我們看到這一次電子簽章法的這些相關的修訂啊他主要是要促進資料的傳輸\n\n4\n00:01:04,603 --> 00:01:20,238\n文件往返的效率能夠提升也促進數位金融電子交易的一個發展另外一個很重要的就是讓平台業者便於來進行客戶的確認就是所謂的KYC減少相關的詐騙的一個廣告\n\n5\n00:01:22,113 --> 00:01:38,908\n那在這邊我要請教一下我們比較細節的問題我們針對修法的內容我們看到這個修正條文的第一條第二項就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定\n\n6\n00:01:40,209 --> 00:01:59,835\n這個我認為他定義不是很清楚,定義不明,就是因為司法程序是否包含這個和條解的程序或者是和解契約的相關的一個簽署因為我們在這個說明裡面只說明訴訟的一個類型但是對於程序內容的部分沒有任何的說明\n\n7\n00:02:01,876 --> 00:02:18,451\n電子簽章法主要是要促進智慧政府跟數位轉型一個重要的目標依賴大量資本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要我是這樣認為反而修法來幫司法院解套\n\n8\n00:02:19,488 --> 00:02:39,746\n那排除所有司法程序的適用嗎?先請部長說明一下,也請司法院張法官。接下來做補充說明。來,那個部長你先請說明。謝謝趙偉垂詢。以我的理解,因為我們電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用,那我就可以來使用電子文件。\n\n9\n00:02:40,226 --> 00:02:53,880\n但是在司法程序上面因為它要發生效力它那個發生效力的前提條件必須明確的在法令裡面規定跟我們電子簽章法雙方合一的這個概念有點不同那細節是不是可以請那個司法委員葛如鈞．請張法官補充說明\n\n10\n00:02:55,599 --> 00:03:17,979\n委員好那個就這個委員垂詢的這個司法程序的部分大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的一樣就是司法程序有他的特殊性那用司法程序其實本來他的性質就有蠻多像比如說像民事訴訟他是在解決人民失權但是像刑事訴訟他是涉及到人身自由的拘束或有一些刑事的強制處分所以他各個程序的要件都不太同\n\n11\n00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:57,600\n議員葛如鈞\n\n12\n00:04:18,624 --> 00:04:40,476\n那第19條這個規定排除的機關中央機關含5院有高達2133項地方政府有227項我是認為行政機關應該是作為數位轉型相關政策的一個領頭羊但是呢修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2000項的排除適用項目\n\n13\n00:04:45,086 --> 00:05:07,971\n我們經過20年要電子簽章法要來修訂卻給這樣的一個過度的寬鬆寬鬆的過度期我覺得這個是有爭議為什麼要3年才能完成過度的癥結在哪裡來部長說明一下謝謝趙委有兩個原因一個是說如果他們需要編列相關的預算的話特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理\n\n14\n00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:55,578\n我們自己本身都要檢討因為我們提升政府施政的一個效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業的數位應用的一個發展的過程裡面我們三年行政部門卻是給自己三年的這樣寬鬆的過渡期我們必須要深切的檢討這個部分我們再找時間跟部長來做討論另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的這個申請門檻第15條規定\n\n15\n00:06:37,861 --> 00:07:04,624\n定義必須要更清楚,因為只是一個名詞而已。那部長所謂的技術對接來說明清楚一下。好,謝謝趙偉。我們特別指的就是……張法官先請回座休息。就是國際標準組織,好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST,或者是全球的ISO。那實際上我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章。那當然我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認。\n\n16\n00:07:57,694 --> 00:08:17,720\n這個現行的第15條基於國際互惠讓外國機構可以申請申請國家也比較少所以因為國際互惠的門檻也高因為入口宅監理因為都在外國那我們現在修正版基於國際互惠或者是技術對接\n\n17\n00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:31,615\n那技術對接沒有經歷,剛才部長也做初步的一個說明因為他概念比較抽象,我認為是過度的放鬆會變成入口比較寬、監理比較困難因為都在外國嘛,所以門檻放寬、監理困難\n\n18\n00:08:35,379 --> 00:08:59,309\n如何確保許可後的直通安全是一個重要的議題。來部長最後時間讓你簡單說明。好,謝謝。非常好的這個提醒。我們在執法就是配套裡面我們會把技術對接講得更清楚。但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄這個我們接下來主條的時候我們願意來討論。好,今天只是詢答那主條的時候再跟部長來做進一步的討論。謝謝,謝謝趙委。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6391\t9198\t謝謝何欣淳主席。現在請一下部長。來部長請。\n16145\t40754\t議長好。電子簽章法在2001年就公布了。是在2002年實施。那也已經超過20多年了沒有修訂過。那我們看到我們現在由於國內外的資通訊的技術的一個提升那也加上網路的普及那民眾的生活型態也改變那再加上政府的施政\n41374\t63183\t而以及相關企業的他們的這種效率的追求提升啊所以電子文件跟電子簽章啊他的使用跟需求啊也日益的增加也提升他的一個重要性那我們看到這一次電子簽章法的這些相關的修訂啊他主要是要促進資料的傳輸\n64603\t80238\t文件往返的效率能夠提升也促進數位金融電子交易的一個發展另外一個很重要的就是讓平台業者便於來進行客戶的確認就是所謂的KYC減少相關的詐騙的一個廣告\n82113\t98908\t那在這邊我要請教一下我們比較細節的問題我們針對修法的內容我們看到這個修正條文的第一條第二項就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定\n100209\t119835\t這個我認為他定義不是很清楚,定義不明,就是因為司法程序是否包含這個和條解的程序或者是和解契約的相關的一個簽署因為我們在這個說明裡面只說明訴訟的一個類型但是對於程序內容的部分沒有任何的說明\n121876\t138451\t電子簽章法主要是要促進智慧政府跟數位轉型一個重要的目標依賴大量資本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要我是這樣認為反而修法來幫司法院解套\n139488\t159746\t那排除所有司法程序的適用嗎?先請部長說明一下,也請司法院張法官。接下來做補充說明。來,那個部長你先請說明。謝謝趙偉垂詢。以我的理解,因為我們電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用,那我就可以來使用電子文件。\n160226\t173880\t但是在司法程序上面因為它要發生效力它那個發生效力的前提條件必須明確的在法令裡面規定跟我們電子簽章法雙方合一的這個概念有點不同那細節是不是可以請那個司法委員葛如鈞．請張法官補充說明\n175599\t197979\t委員好那個就這個委員垂詢的這個司法程序的部分大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的一樣就是司法程序有他的特殊性那用司法程序其實本來他的性質就有蠻多像比如說像民事訴訟他是在解決人民失權但是像刑事訴訟他是涉及到人身自由的拘束或有一些刑事的強制處分所以他各個程序的要件都不太同\n198319\t219957\t﹖﹖﹖\n219957\t237500\t﹖﹖\n237560\t237600\t議員葛如鈞\n258624\t280476\t那第19條這個規定排除的機關中央機關含5院有高達2133項地方政府有227項我是認為行政機關應該是作為數位轉型相關政策的一個領頭羊但是呢修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2000項的排除適用項目\n285086\t307971\t我們經過20年要電子簽章法要來修訂卻給這樣的一個過度的寬鬆寬鬆的過度期我覺得這個是有爭議為什麼要3年才能完成過度的癥結在哪裡來部長說明一下謝謝趙委有兩個原因一個是說如果他們需要編列相關的預算的話特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理\n308831\t331920\t​​​​​​​​​​​​\n331940\t355578\t我們自己本身都要檢討因為我們提升政府施政的一個效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業的數位應用的一個發展的過程裡面我們三年行政部門卻是給自己三年的這樣寬鬆的過渡期我們必須要深切的檢討這個部分我們再找時間跟部長來做討論另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的這個申請門檻第15條規定\n361510\t377466\t﹏﹏\n377466\t397193\t﹖\n397861\t424624\t定義必須要更清楚,因為只是一個名詞而已。那部長所謂的技術對接來說明清楚一下。好,謝謝趙偉。我們特別指的就是…… 張法官先請回座休息。就是國際標準組織,好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST,或者是全球的ISO。那實際上我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章。那當然我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認。\n425265\t455265\t﹏﹏\n455265\t476254\t﹖﹖\n477694\t497720\t這個現行的第15條基於國際互惠讓外國機構可以申請申請國家也比較少所以因為國際互惠的門檻也高因為入口宅監理因為都在外國那我們現在修正版基於國際互惠或者是技術對接\n498900\t511615\t那技術對接沒有經歷,剛才部長也做初步的一個說明因為他概念比較抽象,我認為是過度的放鬆會變成入口比較寬、監理比較困難因為都在外國嘛,所以門檻放寬、監理困難\n515379\t539309\t如何確保許可後的直通安全是一個重要的議題。來部長最後時間讓你簡單說明。好,謝謝。非常好的這個提醒。我們在執法就是配套裡面我們會把技術對接講得更清楚。但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄這個我們接下來主條的時候我們願意來討論。好,今天只是詢答那主條的時候再跟部長來做進一步的討論。謝謝,謝謝趙委。\n","txt":"謝謝何欣淳主席。現在請一下部長。來部長請。\n議長好。電子簽章法在2001年就公布了。是在2002年實施。那也已經超過20多年了沒有修訂過。那我們看到我們現在由於國內外的資通訊的技術的一個提升那也加上網路的普及那民眾的生活型態也改變那再加上政府的施政\n而以及相關企業的他們的這種效率的追求提升啊所以電子文件跟電子簽章啊他的使用跟需求啊也日益的增加也提升他的一個重要性那我們看到這一次電子簽章法的這些相關的修訂啊他主要是要促進資料的傳輸\n文件往返的效率能夠提升也促進數位金融電子交易的一個發展另外一個很重要的就是讓平台業者便於來進行客戶的確認就是所謂的KYC減少相關的詐騙的一個廣告\n那在這邊我要請教一下我們比較細節的問題我們針對修法的內容我們看到這個修正條文的第一條第二項就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定\n這個我認為他定義不是很清楚,定義不明,就是因為司法程序是否包含這個和條解的程序或者是和解契約的相關的一個簽署因為我們在這個說明裡面只說明訴訟的一個類型但是對於程序內容的部分沒有任何的說明\n電子簽章法主要是要促進智慧政府跟數位轉型一個重要的目標依賴大量資本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要我是這樣認為反而修法來幫司法院解套\n那排除所有司法程序的適用嗎?先請部長說明一下,也請司法院張法官。接下來做補充說明。來,那個部長你先請說明。謝謝趙偉垂詢。以我的理解,因為我們電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用,那我就可以來使用電子文件。\n但是在司法程序上面因為它要發生效力它那個發生效力的前提條件必須明確的在法令裡面規定跟我們電子簽章法雙方合一的這個概念有點不同那細節是不是可以請那個司法委員葛如鈞．請張法官補充說明\n委員好那個就這個委員垂詢的這個司法程序的部分大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的一樣就是司法程序有他的特殊性那用司法程序其實本來他的性質就有蠻多像比如說像民事訴訟他是在解決人民失權但是像刑事訴訟他是涉及到人身自由的拘束或有一些刑事的強制處分所以他各個程序的要件都不太同\n﹖﹖﹖\n﹖﹖\n議員葛如鈞\n那第19條這個規定排除的機關中央機關含5院有高達2133項地方政府有227項我是認為行政機關應該是作為數位轉型相關政策的一個領頭羊但是呢修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2000項的排除適用項目\n我們經過20年要電子簽章法要來修訂卻給這樣的一個過度的寬鬆寬鬆的過度期我覺得這個是有爭議為什麼要3年才能完成過度的癥結在哪裡來部長說明一下謝謝趙委有兩個原因一個是說如果他們需要編列相關的預算的話特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理\n​​​​​​​​​​​​\n我們自己本身都要檢討因為我們提升政府施政的一個效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業的數位應用的一個發展的過程裡面我們三年行政部門卻是給自己三年的這樣寬鬆的過渡期我們必須要深切的檢討這個部分我們再找時間跟部長來做討論另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的這個申請門檻第15條規定\n﹏﹏\n﹖\n定義必須要更清楚,因為只是一個名詞而已。那部長所謂的技術對接來說明清楚一下。好,謝謝趙偉。我們特別指的就是…… 張法官先請回座休息。就是國際標準組織,好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST,或者是全球的ISO。那實際上我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章。那當然我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認。\n﹏﹏\n﹖﹖\n這個現行的第15條基於國際互惠讓外國機構可以申請申請國家也比較少所以因為國際互惠的門檻也高因為入口宅監理因為都在外國那我們現在修正版基於國際互惠或者是技術對接\n那技術對接沒有經歷,剛才部長也做初步的一個說明因為他概念比較抽象,我認為是過度的放鬆會變成入口比較寬、監理比較困難因為都在外國嘛,所以門檻放寬、監理困難\n如何確保許可後的直通安全是一個重要的議題。來部長最後時間讓你簡單說明。好,謝謝。非常好的這個提醒。我們在執法就是配套裡面我們會把技術對接講得更清楚。但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄這個我們接下來主條的時候我們願意來討論。好,今天只是詢答那主條的時候再跟部長來做進一步的討論。謝謝,謝謝趙委。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.391 --> 00:09.198\n謝謝何欣淳主席。現在請一下部長。來部長請。\n\n00:16.145 --> 00:40.754\n議長好。電子簽章法在2001年就公布了。是在2002年實施。那也已經超過20多年了沒有修訂過。那我們看到我們現在由於國內外的資通訊的技術的一個提升那也加上網路的普及那民眾的生活型態也改變那再加上政府的施政\n\n00:41.374 --> 01:03.183\n而以及相關企業的他們的這種效率的追求提升啊所以電子文件跟電子簽章啊他的使用跟需求啊也日益的增加也提升他的一個重要性那我們看到這一次電子簽章法的這些相關的修訂啊他主要是要促進資料的傳輸\n\n01:04.603 --> 01:20.238\n文件往返的效率能夠提升也促進數位金融電子交易的一個發展另外一個很重要的就是讓平台業者便於來進行客戶的確認就是所謂的KYC減少相關的詐騙的一個廣告\n\n01:22.113 --> 01:38.908\n那在這邊我要請教一下我們比較細節的問題我們針對修法的內容我們看到這個修正條文的第一條第二項就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定\n\n01:40.209 --> 01:59.835\n這個我認為他定義不是很清楚,定義不明,就是因為司法程序是否包含這個和條解的程序或者是和解契約的相關的一個簽署因為我們在這個說明裡面只說明訴訟的一個類型但是對於程序內容的部分沒有任何的說明\n\n02:01.876 --> 02:18.451\n電子簽章法主要是要促進智慧政府跟數位轉型一個重要的目標依賴大量資本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要我是這樣認為反而修法來幫司法院解套\n\n02:19.488 --> 02:39.746\n那排除所有司法程序的適用嗎?先請部長說明一下,也請司法院張法官。接下來做補充說明。來,那個部長你先請說明。謝謝趙偉垂詢。以我的理解,因為我們電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用,那我就可以來使用電子文件。\n\n02:40.226 --> 02:53.880\n但是在司法程序上面因為它要發生效力它那個發生效力的前提條件必須明確的在法令裡面規定跟我們電子簽章法雙方合一的這個概念有點不同那細節是不是可以請那個司法委員葛如鈞．請張法官補充說明\n\n02:55.599 --> 03:17.979\n委員好那個就這個委員垂詢的這個司法程序的部分大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的一樣就是司法程序有他的特殊性那用司法程序其實本來他的性質就有蠻多像比如說像民事訴訟他是在解決人民失權但是像刑事訴訟他是涉及到人身自由的拘束或有一些刑事的強制處分所以他各個程序的要件都不太同\n\n03:57.560 --> 03:57.600\n議員葛如鈞\n\n04:18.624 --> 04:40.476\n那第19條這個規定排除的機關中央機關含5院有高達2133項地方政府有227項我是認為行政機關應該是作為數位轉型相關政策的一個領頭羊但是呢修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2000項的排除適用項目\n\n04:45.086 --> 05:07.971\n我們經過20年要電子簽章法要來修訂卻給這樣的一個過度的寬鬆寬鬆的過度期我覺得這個是有爭議為什麼要3年才能完成過度的癥結在哪裡來部長說明一下謝謝趙委有兩個原因一個是說如果他們需要編列相關的預算的話特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理\n\n05:31.940 --> 05:55.578\n我們自己本身都要檢討因為我們提升政府施政的一個效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業的數位應用的一個發展的過程裡面我們三年行政部門卻是給自己三年的這樣寬鬆的過渡期我們必須要深切的檢討這個部分我們再找時間跟部長來做討論另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的這個申請門檻第15條規定\n\n06:37.861 --> 07:04.624\n定義必須要更清楚,因為只是一個名詞而已。那部長所謂的技術對接來說明清楚一下。好,謝謝趙偉。我們特別指的就是……張法官先請回座休息。就是國際標準組織,好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST,或者是全球的ISO。那實際上我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章。那當然我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認。\n\n07:57.694 --> 08:17.720\n這個現行的第15條基於國際互惠讓外國機構可以申請申請國家也比較少所以因為國際互惠的門檻也高因為入口宅監理因為都在外國那我們現在修正版基於國際互惠或者是技術對接\n\n08:18.900 --> 08:31.615\n那技術對接沒有經歷,剛才部長也做初步的一個說明因為他概念比較抽象,我認為是過度的放鬆會變成入口比較寬、監理比較困難因為都在外國嘛,所以門檻放寬、監理困難\n\n08:35.379 --> 08:59.309\n如何確保許可後的直通安全是一個重要的議題。來部長最後時間讓你簡單說明。好,謝謝。非常好的這個提醒。我們在執法就是配套裡面我們會把技術對接講得更清楚。但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄這個我們接下來主條的時候我們願意來討論。好,今天只是詢答那主條的時候再跟部長來做進一步的討論。謝謝,謝謝趙委。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.391,"end":9.198,"text":"謝謝何欣淳主席。現在請一下部長。來部長請。"},{"start":16.145,"end":40.754,"text":"議長好。電子簽章法在2001年就公布了。是在2002年實施。那也已經超過20多年了沒有修訂過。那我們看到我們現在由於國內外的資通訊的技術的一個提升那也加上網路的普及那民眾的生活型態也改變那再加上政府的施政"},{"start":41.374,"end":63.183,"text":"而以及相關企業的他們的這種效率的追求提升啊所以電子文件跟電子簽章啊他的使用跟需求啊也日益的增加也提升他的一個重要性那我們看到這一次電子簽章法的這些相關的修訂啊他主要是要促進資料的傳輸"},{"start":64.603,"end":80.238,"text":"文件往返的效率能夠提升也促進數位金融電子交易的一個發展另外一個很重要的就是讓平台業者便於來進行客戶的確認就是所謂的KYC減少相關的詐騙的一個廣告"},{"start":82.113,"end":98.908,"text":"那在這邊我要請教一下我們比較細節的問題我們針對修法的內容我們看到這個修正條文的第一條第二項就是有關於司法程序不適用於本法之規定"},{"start":100.209,"end":119.835,"text":"這個我認為他定義不是很清楚,定義不明,就是因為司法程序是否包含這個和條解的程序或者是和解契約的相關的一個簽署因為我們在這個說明裡面只說明訴訟的一個類型但是對於程序內容的部分沒有任何的說明"},{"start":121.876,"end":138.451,"text":"電子簽章法主要是要促進智慧政府跟數位轉型一個重要的目標依賴大量資本作業的司法院有轉型的需求跟必要我是這樣認為反而修法來幫司法院解套"},{"start":139.488,"end":159.746,"text":"那排除所有司法程序的適用嗎?先請部長說明一下,也請司法院張法官。接下來做補充說明。來,那個部長你先請說明。謝謝趙偉垂詢。以我的理解,因為我們電子簽章法的基本概念是雙方都同意使用,那我就可以來使用電子文件。"},{"start":160.226,"end":173.88,"text":"但是在司法程序上面因為它要發生效力它那個發生效力的前提條件必須明確的在法令裡面規定跟我們電子簽章法雙方合一的這個概念有點不同那細節是不是可以請那個司法委員葛如鈞．請張法官補充說明"},{"start":175.599,"end":197.979,"text":"委員好那個就這個委員垂詢的這個司法程序的部分大致上就如剛剛唐鳳部長講的一樣就是司法程序有他的特殊性那用司法程序其實本來他的性質就有蠻多像比如說像民事訴訟他是在解決人民失權但是像刑事訴訟他是涉及到人身自由的拘束或有一些刑事的強制處分所以他各個程序的要件都不太同"},{"start":198.319,"end":219.957,"text":" ﹖﹖﹖"},{"start":219.957,"end":237.5,"text":" ﹖﹖"},{"start":237.56,"end":237.6,"text":"議員葛如鈞"},{"start":258.624,"end":280.476,"text":"那第19條這個規定排除的機關中央機關含5院有高達2133項地方政府有227項我是認為行政機關應該是作為數位轉型相關政策的一個領頭羊但是呢修法卻提供各個行政機關超過2000項的排除適用項目"},{"start":285.086,"end":307.971,"text":"我們經過20年要電子簽章法要來修訂卻給這樣的一個過度的寬鬆寬鬆的過度期我覺得這個是有爭議為什麼要3年才能完成過度的癥結在哪裡來部長說明一下謝謝趙委有兩個原因一個是說如果他們需要編列相關的預算的話特別是如果要集中到中央採用公共建設預算來辦理"},{"start":308.831,"end":331.92,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":331.94,"end":355.578,"text":"我們自己本身都要檢討因為我們提升政府施政的一個效率以及推動相關數位產業跟整體企業的數位應用的一個發展的過程裡面我們三年行政部門卻是給自己三年的這樣寬鬆的過渡期我們必須要深切的檢討這個部分我們再找時間跟部長來做討論另外就是放寬外國憑證機關的這個申請門檻第15條規定"},{"start":361.51,"end":377.466,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":377.466,"end":397.193,"text":" ﹖"},{"start":397.861,"end":424.624,"text":"定義必須要更清楚,因為只是一個名詞而已。那部長所謂的技術對接來說明清楚一下。好,謝謝趙偉。我們特別指的就是…… 張法官先請回座休息。就是國際標準組織,好比像說美國主管電子簽章技術的NIST,或者是全球的ISO。那實際上我們現在大家平常用的像Adobe也有一個電子簽章。那當然我們的簽章現在Adobe也正在審核要不要來認。"},{"start":425.265,"end":455.265,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":455.265,"end":476.254,"text":" ﹖﹖"},{"start":477.694,"end":497.72,"text":"這個現行的第15條基於國際互惠讓外國機構可以申請申請國家也比較少所以因為國際互惠的門檻也高因為入口宅監理因為都在外國那我們現在修正版基於國際互惠或者是技術對接"},{"start":498.9,"end":511.615,"text":"那技術對接沒有經歷,剛才部長也做初步的一個說明因為他概念比較抽象,我認為是過度的放鬆會變成入口比較寬、監理比較困難因為都在外國嘛,所以門檻放寬、監理困難"},{"start":515.379,"end":539.309,"text":"如何確保許可後的直通安全是一個重要的議題。來部長最後時間讓你簡單說明。好,謝謝。非常好的這個提醒。我們在執法就是配套裡面我們會把技術對接講得更清楚。但如果有一些說明需要提到母法的條文或說明欄這個我們接下來主條的時候我們願意來討論。好,今天只是詢答那主條的時候再跟部長來做進一步的討論。謝謝,謝謝趙委。"}]}}}}