{"id":150092,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150092","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192565613c7829ffad7135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a6e00a675d9541ec565ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:55:49 - 10:07:35","影片長度":"00:11:46","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":706,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:07:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:55:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":215,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時55分）謝謝主席。有請吳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。很開心能夠來到國防外交委員會，有機會正式以本委員會委員的身分來質詢您。國防跟外交某種程度是一體兩面……"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：對於國家來說，外交做得好可以避免很多不必要的衝突與紛爭！很多衝突與紛爭發生的時候，第一步絕對不可能先把軍人送到前線去……"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：所以就是由外交做先行的斡旋，或者其他的溝通與交涉。最近我們看到南海爭議不斷，包括最近大家都在討論的，中國除對臺灣認知作戰外，知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰，各種戰通通都來，最重要就是要營造灰色地帶。我們之前在這個委員會所討論的，包括三無船等事件，其實大家都非常擔憂。到底臺灣現在是不是還需要在一些更顯衝突的地方去展現所謂國家的主權跟意志？前面王定宇委員有特別提到太平島的部分，我知道許多在野黨委員認為我們就上太平島宣示主權，但以外交來講，往往由外交部長定律，難道護主權、宣示主權一定要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣示主權嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：不一定要這樣，但我們必須要找尋最好的方式、最好的時機點來凸顯我們的戰略。在這個事情上，大家的共通點是凸顯我們的主權，不過太平島的主權是非常清楚的，這點毋庸置疑！所以我們必須想到的是，什麼事情對我們國家有利？什麼事情對我們國家不利？而大家的反應是：現在的時機點真的不好。"],["林委員楚茵：之所以如此問的原因在於，就像您剛剛所說，太平島的主權就是我們中華民國的！因為我們有駐軍，我們的國旗就插在那裡！"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["林委員楚茵：以國際上來講，有駐軍、有國旗所象徵的領土，是不是就視為主權的一部分？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯，而且是長久存在。"],["林委員楚茵：就像臺灣有許多外交使節，他們是駐在臺灣的，他們的大使館是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：所以太平島是不是中華民國臺灣的其中一部分，這還需要總統登島才能宣示嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有！它的事實存在就是我們的主權！"],["林委員楚茵：如果是這樣的話，主權確定。接下來還有另外一個論述，也就是南海附近很亂，紛擾不斷，我們就用和平宣言來做宣示，表示我們愛好和平。我們都知道南海紛爭不斷，現在主權聲索國除了我們臺灣之外，還有中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼。我前面就講了，外交、國防其實是一體的，現在整個南海附近海域，就外交來研判，最近是什麼樣的狀態？說實話，很多國人其實是比較關注金門三無船，因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚。至於南海情勢，他們不見得會去瞭解，即便有新聞跳出來，他們也會跳過去。最近之所以開始關注，是因為在野黨委員認為，蔡英文總統應該在卸任之前先上太平島宣示主權。剛剛部長已經說過，宣示主權的方式有很多種，更何況我們的主權就在那裡，不用特別這樣做。南海情勢又是如何？我想很多民眾其實並不瞭解，到底現在南海是什麼樣的一個紛爭？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員，這個問題的確非常重要。過去這一、兩個禮拜，國際媒體也不斷報導中國海巡與菲律賓海巡在海上發生衝撞，甚至有四個菲律賓海巡人員受傷，但這只是媒體上所看到的一個小小衝突而已。實則在南海議題上，中國除了用海巡船之外，還有海上民兵船，即四、五百噸級的漁船，上面有武裝，由解放軍指揮。除此之外，由我們經常性看到的情資可知，中國有20艘以上的軍艦在南海經常性的巡邏。另外，中國已經把南海上好幾個島礁建設為龐大的軍事基地，所以南海的情勢的確很緊張。很多美國學者對於印太地區有很深入的研究，他們覺得南海甚至比臺灣海峽更危險，是更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方。"],["林委員楚茵：就您的外交專業來看，有這麼多國家都在這裡，不論是捕魚權，或者他們預見的、可能的石油礦產權，都可能在這裡有一觸即發的衝突。過程中，我們若在外交上採取大動作作為的話，這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們必須要去衡量。以我的觀點來看，如果我們這邊造成一個印象，也就是臺灣不是在製造和平，而是在製造爭端的話，這對臺灣來講是不好的，尤其是在南海區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下。如同剛剛回答陳委員所說的，我們必須在國際社會上結盟，若要在國際社會上結盟，要吸引到更多國家對我們支持的話，那麼這些國家看待我們時，我們就必須是認真負責的、是提倡和平穩定的。"],["林委員楚茵：其實我蠻滿意部長所講的，因為那就是我強調的，很多時候不是先踏出去那一步，從而引發不必要的誤會。我們知道美菲之間有共同防禦協議，對於南海，大家都希望能和平共存，如果可以的話，我們要做的是民主結盟，而不是直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會。前一陣子我們在委員會裡還在討論與三無船相關的事情，如果是這樣的話，我覺得與其到南海引發紛爭，不如大家一起到前線去幫海巡國軍打氣還比較好。","接下來我要問的另外一個是有關於新南向的部分。剛剛羅美玲委員關注的是與跨國婚姻有關，但在疫情解封之後，更多國人關注的是出國時到底可不可以有更便利的免簽！臺灣護照確實走向全世界，非常好用，也非常有價值。拿出這一本象徵臺灣的護照除了會有光榮感外，當然就是有許多落地免簽。不過，我們來看一下，有沒有機會可以爭取更多，尤其是東南亞新南向國家，因為畢竟近，包括氣候、環境等等，國人也都非常喜歡。","現在14天免簽適用的國家是他們來，包括泰國、汶萊、菲律賓，就是讓他們來促進我們的觀光，他們可以免簽。但剛剛我所講的是，對於國人來講，有沒有機會在免簽上取得平等互惠？像泰國，現在確實有落地免簽，但只到今年5月10日。最近大家看到蠻多網紅、YouTuber或旅行家都會介紹泰國有多好玩，但本席辦公室就接到一些陳情說，會不會在暑假之前免簽沒了？有沒有再繼續洽談之中？"],["吳部長釗燮：有。"],["林委員楚茵：另外，汶萊是落地簽，所以還是要簽。落地簽的感覺就是如果簽不過怎麼辦？我的飯店、旅館、行程都訂了，當然這可能性也許不大，但是會有不安全感。另外，菲律賓則是電子簽30天，我想請問部長的是，目前這三個國家既然我們都試辦14天的免簽，讓他們的國人可以來臺灣促進觀光，那麼下一步互惠的部分，有沒有可能再持續的推動中或是在溝通當中？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們都正在推動當中，每一個國家我們都希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的措施，但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣，在這邊委員所列出來的三個國家，尤其像泰國，他們已經給我們這段時間免簽，接下來希望他們能夠延長，這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中，希望是能夠延長，尤其是暑假……"],["林委員楚茵：對，因為暑假的期間，大家都非常的關注，那這樣的溝通順暢嗎？就是說樂觀嗎？方向。"],["吳部長釗燮：我現在是不敢打包票，但是我們有積極的去跟對方接洽當中。"],["林委員楚茵：另外，汶萊跟菲律賓呢？當然汶萊這個國家相對過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的瞭解，但是菲律賓的話，我相信他也是一個我們旅遊大宗的國家，那這二個國家會儘量朝免簽的方向去努力嗎？有沒有什麼進度跟進展？"],["吳部長釗燮：在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況，這個是比較困難的，菲律賓在臺灣的代表機構是MECO，其實是靠簽證的費用來維繫它的能量，所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽，他們也有意願，然後談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡，我們必須要跟他們認真的繼續接洽，看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們免簽的回應。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為現在是3月，馬上4月會有一波的春假期間，然後再來當然就是暑假了，當然國人會非常關心這個部分，有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關。最後，最新的報導也說了，越南也在著手研擬擴大單方向的免簽。"],["吳部長釗燮：是，沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：我們也希望臺灣有機會能夠在這個部分，因為過去也有一些包括像在越南簽證上可能不是那麼順暢的問題，我們希望部長也朝這個方向來做努力。"],["吳部長釗燮：有，這個方面也積極的在接洽當中。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請徐巧芯委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150092","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150092","tool":"pyannote","id":"150092-pyannote"},"job_id":"DLue1pBm56xKHo8A","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 103.119, \"end\": 103.219, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 103.219, \"end\": 103.339, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 103.339, \"end\": 103.519, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"誓\", \"start\": 103.519, \"end\": 103.68, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 103.68, \"end\": 103.7, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 105.02, \"end\": 130.556, \"text\": \"不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 105.02, \"end\": 105.14, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 105.14, \"end\": 105.22, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 105.22, \"end\": 105.401, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.401, \"end\": 105.521, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 105.521, \"end\": 106.081, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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\"而\", \"start\": 283.598, \"end\": 283.758, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 283.758, \"end\": 284.338, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 284.338, \"end\": 284.498, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 284.498, \"end\": 284.858, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 284.858, \"end\": 285.059, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 285.059, \"end\": 285.279, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 285.279, \"end\": 285.899, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 285.899, \"end\": 286.099, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 286.099, \"end\": 286.119, \"score\": 0.98}]}, {\"start\": 287.284, \"end\": 311.797, \"text\": \"中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 287.284, \"end\": 287.784, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": 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307.134, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 307.134, \"end\": 307.394, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 307.394, \"end\": 307.614, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 307.614, \"end\": 307.735, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 307.735, \"end\": 308.415, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"艘\", \"start\": 308.415, \"end\": 308.715, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 308.715, \"end\": 308.935, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 308.935, \"end\": 309.195, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 309.195, \"end\": 310.296, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"艦\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 310.296, \"end\": 310.496, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 310.496, \"end\": 310.696, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 310.696, \"end\": 311.496, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 311.496, \"end\": 311.777, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 311.777, \"end\": 311.797, \"score\": 0.641}, {\"word\": \"邏\"}]}, {\"start\": 312.737, \"end\": 338.516, \"text\": \"除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 312.737, \"end\": 312.877, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 312.877, \"end\": 313.238, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 313.238, \"end\": 313.358, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 313.358, \"end\": 313.778, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 313.778, \"end\": 313.978, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 313.978, \"end\": 314.138, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 314.138, \"end\": 314.278, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 314.278, \"end\": 314.418, \"score\": 0.999}, 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\"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 596.886, \"end\": 598.368, \"text\": \"我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 596.886, \"end\": 597.026, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 597.026, \"end\": 597.287, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 597.287, \"end\": 597.487, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 597.487, \"end\": 597.587, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"敢\", \"start\": 597.587, \"end\": 597.727, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 597.727, \"end\": 597.747, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 597.747, \"end\": 597.767, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 597.767, \"end\": 597.787, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 597.787, \"end\": 597.968, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 597.968, \"end\": 598.088, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 598.088, \"end\": 598.108, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 598.108, 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690.009, \"end\": 690.229, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 690.229, \"end\": 690.249, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,289 --> 00:00:01,752\n謝謝主席主席有請吳部長請部長各位好\n\n2\n00:00:10,165 --> 00:00:36,452\n部長好很開心我能夠來到國防外交委員會有機會正式的以這個委員會的委員本委員會委員來質詢您我想這個國防跟外交事實上它某種程度上是一體兩面對於國家來說這個外交做得好的話可以避免很多不必要的衝突跟紛爭然後很多的衝突跟紛爭發生的時候我們第一步絕對不可能是把\n\n3\n00:00:37,192 --> 00:01:03,581\n軍人送到前線去就是由外交來做一個先行的斡旋或者是其他的這種溝通跟交涉那麼最近我們其實看到南海的爭議不斷那麼其實包括像最近大家都在討論中國對於我們台灣的認知作戰之外知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰各種戰通通都來最重要就是要營造灰色地帶\n\n4\n00:01:04,321 --> 00:01:25,049\n那麼之前我們前面在這個委員會所討論的包括三無船等等的事件其實大家都非常的擔憂那麼到底台灣現在是不是還要在一些更顯衝突的地方要去展現我們的所謂國家的主權跟意志剛剛前面王定宇委員有特別提到有關於太平島的這個部分\n\n5\n00:01:26,470 --> 00:01:43,700\n呃我知道許多在野黨的委員尤其是現在認為是說來我們就上太平島來宣誓主權但是以外交來講由外交部長來做一個定義互主權宣誓主權一定是要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣誓主權嗎\n\n6\n00:01:45,020 --> 00:02:10,556\n不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利\n\n7\n00:02:17,359 --> 00:02:39,649\n太平島的主權就像您剛剛所說的就是我們中華民國的因為我們有駐軍然後我們有一個完全的國旗就插在那裡以國際上面來講有駐軍有國旗的象徵的領土我們是不是就視為主權的一部分就像在台灣我們有許多的外交使節他們是住在台灣的他的大使館\n\n8\n00:02:40,629 --> 00:02:57,980\n是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸沒有錯對那所以太平島是不是中華民國台灣的其中的一部分這個還需要是一個總統登島才能夠宣示的嗎沒有他的事實的存在就是我們的主權\n\n9\n00:02:59,311 --> 00:03:18,996\n那如果是這樣的話,主權確定,那麼接下來當然還有另外一個論述是說,哎呀,現在那附近,南海附近很亂啦,然後呢,這個紛擾不斷啦,我們就用一個和平宣言來做一個宣示,表示這裡我們就要愛好和平,但是我們知道的,這個南海紛爭不斷啦,\n\n10\n00:03:20,731 --> 00:03:48,508\n那包括現在主權的聲索國除了我們台灣之外中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼我剛剛前面就講了外交、國防其實是一體的現在在那裡頭到底整個南海附近的海域如果就外交來研判現在最近是一個什麼樣的狀態因為很多國人說實話比起金門的三無船他們是比較關注的因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚\n\n11\n00:03:49,108 --> 00:04:13,181\n但是南海的情勢他們其實不見得會了解或是新聞跳出來他們也會跳過去最近開始關注是因為在黨的委員認為應該讓蔡英文總統在卸任之前先上太平島來宣示一下主權但當然你已經說過了嘛宣示主權的方式其實很多種更何況我們主權就在那不用特別去做這樣的\n\n12\n00:04:13,601 --> 00:04:19,434\n那南海的情勢又是如何呢?很多民眾其實是不了解的到底現在南海的情勢、狀況是什麼樣的一個紛爭?\n\n13\n00:04:22,681 --> 00:04:46,119\n非常謝謝委員這個問題的確是非常的重要那在過去這一兩個禮拜國際媒體上面不斷的去報導就是說中國的海巡跟菲律賓的海巡在海上有衝撞那甚至是有四個菲律賓的海巡人員受傷那這個只是媒體上面所看到的一個小小的一個衝突而已那其實在南海議題上面\n\n14\n00:04:47,284 --> 00:05:11,797\n中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏\n\n15\n00:05:12,737 --> 00:05:38,516\n除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方\n\n16\n00:05:39,315 --> 00:05:59,406\n那所以說就您的外交專業在這麼多的國家都在這裡因為不論是捕魚權或者是所他們預見的可能的石油的礦產權大家都在這裡可能有一處急發的衝突的過程當中我們還有一些大動作的作為在外交上面這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎\n\n17\n00:06:01,487 --> 00:06:28,445\n我們必須要去衡量以我的觀點來看的話如果說我們這邊去造成一個印象就是說我們台灣不是在製造和平而是在製造爭端的話那這個對我們台灣來講是不好的尤其是在南海的這個區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下就好像剛剛在回答陳委員所說的我們必須要在國際社會上面結盟\n\n18\n00:06:29,105 --> 00:06:43,246\n那在國際社會上面如果說要結盟要吸引到更多的國家對我們支持的話那這些國家看待我們的時候就必須要看待我們說我們是一個認真負責的我們是一個提倡和平穩定的好其實我們\n\n19\n00:06:44,407 --> 00:07:08,744\n滿意部長講到這個部分那就是我強調的很多時候不是先踏出去那一步引發不必要的誤會包括我們知道美非之間有一些共同防禦的協議對於南海大家都是站在一種希望和平共存的方式如果可以的話我們要做的是一種民主的結盟而不是說現在我們就直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會那麼\n\n20\n00:07:10,485 --> 00:07:31,583\n本席也認為啦就是說在這樣的一個狀況底下尤其前一陣子我們在這個委員會裡面還在討論三無船相關的事情其實如果是這樣的話我都覺得說與其到南海去引發紛爭不如大家一起到前線去幫我們海巡國軍來打氣還比較好那接下來我要問的另外一個部分是有關於新南向的部分剛剛\n\n21\n00:07:33,604 --> 00:07:53,549\n羅美玲委員關注的是有關於跨國婚姻的部分但是在疫情解封之後更多的國人關注的是說那麼我們要出國的時候到底可不可以有更便利的免簽那麼台灣的護照確實走向全世界非常的好用那麼也非常的有價值拿出這一本象徵台灣的護照\n\n22\n00:07:55,689 --> 00:08:14,297\n會感到光榮感之外當然就是許多的落地免簽不過我們現在來看一下就是有沒有機會可以爭取更多尤其是東南亞新南向的國家因為畢竟近那包括氣候環境等等大家國人也都非常喜歡我們現在事半14天的免簽適用的國家是他們來就是包括像泰國、汶萊、菲律賓這是讓他們來促進我們的觀光\n\n23\n00:08:23,601 --> 00:08:26,463\n他們可以免簽但是剛剛我所講的是那對於國人來講有沒有機會在免簽的部分做一些平等的互惠的部分在泰國的部分現在確實是有落地的免簽但是直到今年的5月10號\n\n24\n00:08:38,954 --> 00:08:39,334\n有另外問來\n\n25\n00:08:56,599 --> 00:08:56,779\n李慧琼議員\n\n26\n00:09:15,044 --> 00:09:28,951\n請問部長的是目前這三個國家既然我們都事半14天的免簽讓他們的國人可以來台灣促進觀光那麼下一步的互惠的部分有沒有可能在持續的推動中或是在溝通當中\n\n27\n00:09:30,187 --> 00:09:56,226\n我們都正在推動當中每一個國家都是我們希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的這些措施但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣在這邊委員所列出來這三個國家尤其是像泰國他們已經給我們免簽這段時間是免簽了接下來希望他們能夠延長這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中希望是能夠延長\n\n28\n00:09:56,886 --> 00:09:58,368\n我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中\n\n29\n00:10:13,194 --> 00:10:26,483\n吳釗燮和菲律賓呢?因為當然吳釗燮這個國家相對的過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的了解但是菲律賓的話我相信他也是一個我們旅遊的大宗的國家那這兩個國家會朝儘量去免簽的方向去努力嗎?那麼有沒有什麼進度跟進展?\n\n30\n00:10:33,188 --> 00:10:45,034\n在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況這個是比較困難的啦就是菲律賓他的在台灣的這個代表機構就是MECO其實是靠簽證的這個費用來維繫他的這個能量\n\n31\n00:10:49,036 --> 00:11:01,746\n那所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽他們也有意願然後要談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡那我們必須要跟他們認真的來繼續去恰看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們的免簽的這個回應\n\n32\n00:11:04,588 --> 00:11:24,785\n好因為現在是3月馬上4月會有一波的這個春節假期春假期間然後再來呢當然就是暑假了那麼當然國人會非常關心這個部分有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關那最後當然最新的報導也說了就是越南也在左手眼裡擴大單方向的免錢是那麼我們也希望台灣有機會能夠\n\n33\n00:11:30,009 --> 00:11:30,249\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t1752\t謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請部長各位好\n10165\t36452\t部長好很開心我能夠來到國防外交委員會有機會正式的以這個委員會的委員本委員會委員來質詢您我想這個國防跟外交事實上它某種程度上是一體兩面對於國家來說這個外交做得好的話可以避免很多不必要的衝突跟紛爭然後很多的衝突跟紛爭發生的時候我們第一步絕對不可能是把\n37192\t63581\t軍人送到前線去就是由外交來做一個先行的斡旋或者是其他的這種溝通跟交涉那麼最近我們其實看到南海的爭議不斷那麼其實包括像最近大家都在討論中國對於我們台灣的認知作戰之外知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰各種戰通通都來最重要就是要營造灰色地帶\n64321\t85049\t那麼之前我們前面在這個委員會所討論的包括三無船等等的事件其實大家都非常的擔憂那麼到底台灣現在是不是還要在一些更顯衝突的地方要去展現我們的所謂國家的主權跟意志剛剛前面王定宇委員有特別提到有關於太平島的這個部分\n86470\t103700\t呃我知道許多在野黨的委員尤其是現在認為是說來我們就上太平島來宣誓主權但是以外交來講由外交部長來做一個定義互主權宣誓主權一定是要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣誓主權嗎\n105020\t130556\t不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利\n137359\t159649\t太平島的主權就像您剛剛所說的就是我們中華民國的因為我們有駐軍然後我們有一個完全的國旗就插在那裡以國際上面來講有駐軍有國旗的象徵的領土我們是不是就視為主權的一部分就像在台灣我們有許多的外交使節他們是住在台灣的他的大使館\n160629\t177980\t是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸沒有錯對那所以太平島是不是中華民國台灣的其中的一部分這個還需要是一個總統登島才能夠宣示的嗎沒有他的事實的存在就是我們的主權\n179311\t198996\t那如果是這樣的話,主權確定,那麼接下來當然還有另外一個論述是說,哎呀,現在那附近,南海附近很亂啦,然後呢,這個紛擾不斷啦,我們就用一個和平宣言來做一個宣示,表示這裡我們就要愛好和平,但是我們知道的,這個南海紛爭不斷啦,\n200731\t228508\t那包括現在主權的聲索國除了我們台灣之外中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼我剛剛前面就講了外交、國防其實是一體的現在在那裡頭到底整個南海附近的海域如果就外交來研判現在最近是一個什麼樣的狀態因為很多國人說實話比起金門的三無船他們是比較關注的因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚\n229108\t253181\t但是南海的情勢他們其實不見得會了解或是新聞跳出來他們也會跳過去最近開始關注是因為在黨的委員認為應該讓蔡英文總統在卸任之前先上太平島來宣示一下主權但當然你已經說過了嘛宣示主權的方式其實很多種更何況我們主權就在那不用特別去做這樣的\n253601\t259434\t那南海的情勢又是如何呢?很多民眾其實是不了解的到底現在南海的情勢、狀況是什麼樣的一個紛爭?\n262681\t286119\t非常謝謝委員這個問題的確是非常的重要那在過去這一兩個禮拜國際媒體上面不斷的去報導就是說中國的海巡跟菲律賓的海巡在海上有衝撞那甚至是有四個菲律賓的海巡人員受傷那這個只是媒體上面所看到的一個小小的一個衝突而已那其實在南海議題上面\n287284\t311797\t中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏\n312737\t338516\t除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方\n339315\t359406\t那所以說就您的外交專業在這麼多的國家都在這裡因為不論是捕魚權或者是所他們預見的可能的石油的礦產權大家都在這裡可能有一處急發的衝突的過程當中我們還有一些大動作的作為在外交上面這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎\n361487\t388445\t我們必須要去衡量以我的觀點來看的話如果說我們這邊去造成一個印象就是說我們台灣不是在製造和平而是在製造爭端的話那這個對我們台灣來講是不好的尤其是在南海的這個區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下就好像剛剛在回答陳委員所說的我們必須要在國際社會上面結盟\n389105\t403246\t那在國際社會上面如果說要結盟要吸引到更多的國家對我們支持的話那這些國家看待我們的時候就必須要看待我們說我們是一個認真負責的我們是一個提倡和平穩定的好其實我們\n404407\t428744\t滿意部長講到這個部分那就是我強調的很多時候不是先踏出去那一步引發不必要的誤會包括我們知道美非之間有一些共同防禦的協議對於南海大家都是站在一種希望和平共存的方式如果可以的話我們要做的是一種民主的結盟而不是說現在我們就直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會那麼\n430485\t451583\t本席也認為啦就是說在這樣的一個狀況底下尤其前一陣子我們在這個委員會裡面還在討論三無船相關的事情其實如果是這樣的話我都覺得說與其到南海去引發紛爭不如大家一起到前線去幫我們海巡國軍來打氣還比較好那接下來我要問的另外一個部分是有關於新南向的部分剛剛\n453604\t473549\t羅美玲委員關注的是有關於跨國婚姻的部分但是在疫情解封之後更多的國人關注的是說那麼我們要出國的時候到底可不可以有更便利的免簽那麼台灣的護照確實走向全世界非常的好用那麼也非常的有價值拿出這一本象徵台灣的護照\n475689\t494297\t會感到光榮感之外當然就是許多的落地免簽不過我們現在來看一下就是有沒有機會可以爭取更多尤其是東南亞新南向的國家因為畢竟近那包括氣候環境等等大家國人也都非常喜歡我們現在事半14天的免簽適用的國家是他們來就是包括像泰國、汶萊、菲律賓這是讓他們來促進我們的觀光\n503601\t506463\t他們可以免簽但是剛剛我所講的是那對於國人來講有沒有機會在免簽的部分做一些平等的互惠的部分在泰國的部分現在確實是有落地的免簽但是直到今年的5月10號\n518954\t519334\t有另外問來\n536599\t536779\t李慧琼議員\n555044\t568951\t請問部長的是目前這三個國家既然我們都事半14天的免簽讓他們的國人可以來台灣促進觀光那麼下一步的互惠的部分有沒有可能在持續的推動中或是在溝通當中\n570187\t596226\t我們都正在推動當中每一個國家都是我們希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的這些措施但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣在這邊委員所列出來這三個國家尤其是像泰國他們已經給我們免簽這段時間是免簽了接下來希望他們能夠延長這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中希望是能夠延長\n596886\t598368\t我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中\n613194\t626483\t吳釗燮和菲律賓呢?因為當然吳釗燮這個國家相對的過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的了解但是菲律賓的話我相信他也是一個我們旅遊的大宗的國家那這兩個國家會朝儘量去免簽的方向去努力嗎?那麼有沒有什麼進度跟進展?\n633188\t645034\t在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況這個是比較困難的啦就是菲律賓他的在台灣的這個代表機構就是MECO其實是靠簽證的這個費用來維繫他的這個能量\n649036\t661746\t那所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽他們也有意願然後要談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡那我們必須要跟他們認真的來繼續去恰看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們的免簽的這個回應\n664588\t684785\t好因為現在是3月馬上4月會有一波的這個春節假期春假期間然後再來呢當然就是暑假了那麼當然國人會非常關心這個部分有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關那最後當然最新的報導也說了就是越南也在左手眼裡擴大單方向的免錢是那麼我們也希望台灣有機會能夠\n690009\t690249\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請部長各位好\n部長好很開心我能夠來到國防外交委員會有機會正式的以這個委員會的委員本委員會委員來質詢您我想這個國防跟外交事實上它某種程度上是一體兩面對於國家來說這個外交做得好的話可以避免很多不必要的衝突跟紛爭然後很多的衝突跟紛爭發生的時候我們第一步絕對不可能是把\n軍人送到前線去就是由外交來做一個先行的斡旋或者是其他的這種溝通跟交涉那麼最近我們其實看到南海的爭議不斷那麼其實包括像最近大家都在討論中國對於我們台灣的認知作戰之外知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰各種戰通通都來最重要就是要營造灰色地帶\n那麼之前我們前面在這個委員會所討論的包括三無船等等的事件其實大家都非常的擔憂那麼到底台灣現在是不是還要在一些更顯衝突的地方要去展現我們的所謂國家的主權跟意志剛剛前面王定宇委員有特別提到有關於太平島的這個部分\n呃我知道許多在野黨的委員尤其是現在認為是說來我們就上太平島來宣誓主權但是以外交來講由外交部長來做一個定義互主權宣誓主權一定是要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣誓主權嗎\n不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利\n太平島的主權就像您剛剛所說的就是我們中華民國的因為我們有駐軍然後我們有一個完全的國旗就插在那裡以國際上面來講有駐軍有國旗的象徵的領土我們是不是就視為主權的一部分就像在台灣我們有許多的外交使節他們是住在台灣的他的大使館\n是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸沒有錯對那所以太平島是不是中華民國台灣的其中的一部分這個還需要是一個總統登島才能夠宣示的嗎沒有他的事實的存在就是我們的主權\n那如果是這樣的話,主權確定,那麼接下來當然還有另外一個論述是說,哎呀,現在那附近,南海附近很亂啦,然後呢,這個紛擾不斷啦,我們就用一個和平宣言來做一個宣示,表示這裡我們就要愛好和平,但是我們知道的,這個南海紛爭不斷啦,\n那包括現在主權的聲索國除了我們台灣之外中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼我剛剛前面就講了外交、國防其實是一體的現在在那裡頭到底整個南海附近的海域如果就外交來研判現在最近是一個什麼樣的狀態因為很多國人說實話比起金門的三無船他們是比較關注的因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚\n但是南海的情勢他們其實不見得會了解或是新聞跳出來他們也會跳過去最近開始關注是因為在黨的委員認為應該讓蔡英文總統在卸任之前先上太平島來宣示一下主權但當然你已經說過了嘛宣示主權的方式其實很多種更何況我們主權就在那不用特別去做這樣的\n那南海的情勢又是如何呢?很多民眾其實是不了解的到底現在南海的情勢、狀況是什麼樣的一個紛爭?\n非常謝謝委員這個問題的確是非常的重要那在過去這一兩個禮拜國際媒體上面不斷的去報導就是說中國的海巡跟菲律賓的海巡在海上有衝撞那甚至是有四個菲律賓的海巡人員受傷那這個只是媒體上面所看到的一個小小的一個衝突而已那其實在南海議題上面\n中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏\n除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方\n那所以說就您的外交專業在這麼多的國家都在這裡因為不論是捕魚權或者是所他們預見的可能的石油的礦產權大家都在這裡可能有一處急發的衝突的過程當中我們還有一些大動作的作為在外交上面這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎\n我們必須要去衡量以我的觀點來看的話如果說我們這邊去造成一個印象就是說我們台灣不是在製造和平而是在製造爭端的話那這個對我們台灣來講是不好的尤其是在南海的這個區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下就好像剛剛在回答陳委員所說的我們必須要在國際社會上面結盟\n那在國際社會上面如果說要結盟要吸引到更多的國家對我們支持的話那這些國家看待我們的時候就必須要看待我們說我們是一個認真負責的我們是一個提倡和平穩定的好其實我們\n滿意部長講到這個部分那就是我強調的很多時候不是先踏出去那一步引發不必要的誤會包括我們知道美非之間有一些共同防禦的協議對於南海大家都是站在一種希望和平共存的方式如果可以的話我們要做的是一種民主的結盟而不是說現在我們就直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會那麼\n本席也認為啦就是說在這樣的一個狀況底下尤其前一陣子我們在這個委員會裡面還在討論三無船相關的事情其實如果是這樣的話我都覺得說與其到南海去引發紛爭不如大家一起到前線去幫我們海巡國軍來打氣還比較好那接下來我要問的另外一個部分是有關於新南向的部分剛剛\n羅美玲委員關注的是有關於跨國婚姻的部分但是在疫情解封之後更多的國人關注的是說那麼我們要出國的時候到底可不可以有更便利的免簽那麼台灣的護照確實走向全世界非常的好用那麼也非常的有價值拿出這一本象徵台灣的護照\n會感到光榮感之外當然就是許多的落地免簽不過我們現在來看一下就是有沒有機會可以爭取更多尤其是東南亞新南向的國家因為畢竟近那包括氣候環境等等大家國人也都非常喜歡我們現在事半14天的免簽適用的國家是他們來就是包括像泰國、汶萊、菲律賓這是讓他們來促進我們的觀光\n他們可以免簽但是剛剛我所講的是那對於國人來講有沒有機會在免簽的部分做一些平等的互惠的部分在泰國的部分現在確實是有落地的免簽但是直到今年的5月10號\n有另外問來\n李慧琼議員\n請問部長的是目前這三個國家既然我們都事半14天的免簽讓他們的國人可以來台灣促進觀光那麼下一步的互惠的部分有沒有可能在持續的推動中或是在溝通當中\n我們都正在推動當中每一個國家都是我們希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的這些措施但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣在這邊委員所列出來這三個國家尤其是像泰國他們已經給我們免簽這段時間是免簽了接下來希望他們能夠延長這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中希望是能夠延長\n我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中\n吳釗燮和菲律賓呢?因為當然吳釗燮這個國家相對的過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的了解但是菲律賓的話我相信他也是一個我們旅遊的大宗的國家那這兩個國家會朝儘量去免簽的方向去努力嗎?那麼有沒有什麼進度跟進展?\n在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況這個是比較困難的啦就是菲律賓他的在台灣的這個代表機構就是MECO其實是靠簽證的這個費用來維繫他的這個能量\n那所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽他們也有意願然後要談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡那我們必須要跟他們認真的來繼續去恰看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們的免簽的這個回應\n好因為現在是3月馬上4月會有一波的這個春節假期春假期間然後再來呢當然就是暑假了那麼當然國人會非常關心這個部分有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關那最後當然最新的報導也說了就是越南也在左手眼裡擴大單方向的免錢是那麼我們也希望台灣有機會能夠\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:01.752\n謝謝主席主席有請吳部長請部長各位好\n\n00:10.165 --> 00:36.452\n部長好很開心我能夠來到國防外交委員會有機會正式的以這個委員會的委員本委員會委員來質詢您我想這個國防跟外交事實上它某種程度上是一體兩面對於國家來說這個外交做得好的話可以避免很多不必要的衝突跟紛爭然後很多的衝突跟紛爭發生的時候我們第一步絕對不可能是把\n\n00:37.192 --> 01:03.581\n軍人送到前線去就是由外交來做一個先行的斡旋或者是其他的這種溝通跟交涉那麼最近我們其實看到南海的爭議不斷那麼其實包括像最近大家都在討論中國對於我們台灣的認知作戰之外知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰各種戰通通都來最重要就是要營造灰色地帶\n\n01:04.321 --> 01:25.049\n那麼之前我們前面在這個委員會所討論的包括三無船等等的事件其實大家都非常的擔憂那麼到底台灣現在是不是還要在一些更顯衝突的地方要去展現我們的所謂國家的主權跟意志剛剛前面王定宇委員有特別提到有關於太平島的這個部分\n\n01:26.470 --> 01:43.700\n呃我知道許多在野黨的委員尤其是現在認為是說來我們就上太平島來宣誓主權但是以外交來講由外交部長來做一個定義互主權宣誓主權一定是要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣誓主權嗎\n\n01:45.020 --> 02:10.556\n不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利\n\n02:17.359 --> 02:39.649\n太平島的主權就像您剛剛所說的就是我們中華民國的因為我們有駐軍然後我們有一個完全的國旗就插在那裡以國際上面來講有駐軍有國旗的象徵的領土我們是不是就視為主權的一部分就像在台灣我們有許多的外交使節他們是住在台灣的他的大使館\n\n02:40.629 --> 02:57.980\n是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸沒有錯對那所以太平島是不是中華民國台灣的其中的一部分這個還需要是一個總統登島才能夠宣示的嗎沒有他的事實的存在就是我們的主權\n\n02:59.311 --> 03:18.996\n那如果是這樣的話,主權確定,那麼接下來當然還有另外一個論述是說,哎呀,現在那附近,南海附近很亂啦,然後呢,這個紛擾不斷啦,我們就用一個和平宣言來做一個宣示,表示這裡我們就要愛好和平,但是我們知道的,這個南海紛爭不斷啦,\n\n03:20.731 --> 03:48.508\n那包括現在主權的聲索國除了我們台灣之外中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼我剛剛前面就講了外交、國防其實是一體的現在在那裡頭到底整個南海附近的海域如果就外交來研判現在最近是一個什麼樣的狀態因為很多國人說實話比起金門的三無船他們是比較關注的因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚\n\n03:49.108 --> 04:13.181\n但是南海的情勢他們其實不見得會了解或是新聞跳出來他們也會跳過去最近開始關注是因為在黨的委員認為應該讓蔡英文總統在卸任之前先上太平島來宣示一下主權但當然你已經說過了嘛宣示主權的方式其實很多種更何況我們主權就在那不用特別去做這樣的\n\n04:13.601 --> 04:19.434\n那南海的情勢又是如何呢?很多民眾其實是不了解的到底現在南海的情勢、狀況是什麼樣的一個紛爭?\n\n04:22.681 --> 04:46.119\n非常謝謝委員這個問題的確是非常的重要那在過去這一兩個禮拜國際媒體上面不斷的去報導就是說中國的海巡跟菲律賓的海巡在海上有衝撞那甚至是有四個菲律賓的海巡人員受傷那這個只是媒體上面所看到的一個小小的一個衝突而已那其實在南海議題上面\n\n04:47.284 --> 05:11.797\n中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏\n\n05:12.737 --> 05:38.516\n除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方\n\n05:39.315 --> 05:59.406\n那所以說就您的外交專業在這麼多的國家都在這裡因為不論是捕魚權或者是所他們預見的可能的石油的礦產權大家都在這裡可能有一處急發的衝突的過程當中我們還有一些大動作的作為在外交上面這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎\n\n06:01.487 --> 06:28.445\n我們必須要去衡量以我的觀點來看的話如果說我們這邊去造成一個印象就是說我們台灣不是在製造和平而是在製造爭端的話那這個對我們台灣來講是不好的尤其是在南海的這個區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下就好像剛剛在回答陳委員所說的我們必須要在國際社會上面結盟\n\n06:29.105 --> 06:43.246\n那在國際社會上面如果說要結盟要吸引到更多的國家對我們支持的話那這些國家看待我們的時候就必須要看待我們說我們是一個認真負責的我們是一個提倡和平穩定的好其實我們\n\n06:44.407 --> 07:08.744\n滿意部長講到這個部分那就是我強調的很多時候不是先踏出去那一步引發不必要的誤會包括我們知道美非之間有一些共同防禦的協議對於南海大家都是站在一種希望和平共存的方式如果可以的話我們要做的是一種民主的結盟而不是說現在我們就直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會那麼\n\n07:10.485 --> 07:31.583\n本席也認為啦就是說在這樣的一個狀況底下尤其前一陣子我們在這個委員會裡面還在討論三無船相關的事情其實如果是這樣的話我都覺得說與其到南海去引發紛爭不如大家一起到前線去幫我們海巡國軍來打氣還比較好那接下來我要問的另外一個部分是有關於新南向的部分剛剛\n\n07:33.604 --> 07:53.549\n羅美玲委員關注的是有關於跨國婚姻的部分但是在疫情解封之後更多的國人關注的是說那麼我們要出國的時候到底可不可以有更便利的免簽那麼台灣的護照確實走向全世界非常的好用那麼也非常的有價值拿出這一本象徵台灣的護照\n\n07:55.689 --> 08:14.297\n會感到光榮感之外當然就是許多的落地免簽不過我們現在來看一下就是有沒有機會可以爭取更多尤其是東南亞新南向的國家因為畢竟近那包括氣候環境等等大家國人也都非常喜歡我們現在事半14天的免簽適用的國家是他們來就是包括像泰國、汶萊、菲律賓這是讓他們來促進我們的觀光\n\n08:23.601 --> 08:26.463\n他們可以免簽但是剛剛我所講的是那對於國人來講有沒有機會在免簽的部分做一些平等的互惠的部分在泰國的部分現在確實是有落地的免簽但是直到今年的5月10號\n\n08:38.954 --> 08:39.334\n有另外問來\n\n08:56.599 --> 08:56.779\n李慧琼議員\n\n09:15.044 --> 09:28.951\n請問部長的是目前這三個國家既然我們都事半14天的免簽讓他們的國人可以來台灣促進觀光那麼下一步的互惠的部分有沒有可能在持續的推動中或是在溝通當中\n\n09:30.187 --> 09:56.226\n我們都正在推動當中每一個國家都是我們希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的這些措施但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣在這邊委員所列出來這三個國家尤其是像泰國他們已經給我們免簽這段時間是免簽了接下來希望他們能夠延長這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中希望是能夠延長\n\n09:56.886 --> 09:58.368\n我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中\n\n10:13.194 --> 10:26.483\n吳釗燮和菲律賓呢?因為當然吳釗燮這個國家相對的過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的了解但是菲律賓的話我相信他也是一個我們旅遊的大宗的國家那這兩個國家會朝儘量去免簽的方向去努力嗎?那麼有沒有什麼進度跟進展?\n\n10:33.188 --> 10:45.034\n在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況這個是比較困難的啦就是菲律賓他的在台灣的這個代表機構就是MECO其實是靠簽證的這個費用來維繫他的這個能量\n\n10:49.036 --> 11:01.746\n那所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽他們也有意願然後要談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡那我們必須要跟他們認真的來繼續去恰看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們的免簽的這個回應\n\n11:04.588 --> 11:24.785\n好因為現在是3月馬上4月會有一波的這個春節假期春假期間然後再來呢當然就是暑假了那麼當然國人會非常關心這個部分有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關那最後當然最新的報導也說了就是越南也在左手眼裡擴大單方向的免錢是那麼我們也希望台灣有機會能夠\n\n11:30.009 --> 11:30.249\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":1.752,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請部長各位好"},{"start":10.165,"end":36.452,"text":"部長好很開心我能夠來到國防外交委員會有機會正式的以這個委員會的委員本委員會委員來質詢您我想這個國防跟外交事實上它某種程度上是一體兩面對於國家來說這個外交做得好的話可以避免很多不必要的衝突跟紛爭然後很多的衝突跟紛爭發生的時候我們第一步絕對不可能是把"},{"start":37.192,"end":63.581,"text":"軍人送到前線去就是由外交來做一個先行的斡旋或者是其他的這種溝通跟交涉那麼最近我們其實看到南海的爭議不斷那麼其實包括像最近大家都在討論中國對於我們台灣的認知作戰之外知識戰、法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰各種戰通通都來最重要就是要營造灰色地帶"},{"start":64.321,"end":85.049,"text":"那麼之前我們前面在這個委員會所討論的包括三無船等等的事件其實大家都非常的擔憂那麼到底台灣現在是不是還要在一些更顯衝突的地方要去展現我們的所謂國家的主權跟意志剛剛前面王定宇委員有特別提到有關於太平島的這個部分"},{"start":86.47,"end":103.7,"text":"呃我知道許多在野黨的委員尤其是現在認為是說來我們就上太平島來宣誓主權但是以外交來講由外交部長來做一個定義互主權宣誓主權一定是要元首登到某一個地方才叫宣誓主權嗎"},{"start":105.02,"end":130.556,"text":"不一定是要這樣子我們必須要去找尋最好的方式最好的時機點來凸顯我們的這個戰略那我想在這個事情上面大家的共通點是說要凸顯我們的主權那但是因為太平島的這個主權是非常清楚的這個無庸置疑的所以我們必須要去想到的就是說什麼事情對我們國家有利什麼事情對我們國家不利"},{"start":137.359,"end":159.649,"text":"太平島的主權就像您剛剛所說的就是我們中華民國的因為我們有駐軍然後我們有一個完全的國旗就插在那裡以國際上面來講有駐軍有國旗的象徵的領土我們是不是就視為主權的一部分就像在台灣我們有許多的外交使節他們是住在台灣的他的大使館"},{"start":160.629,"end":177.98,"text":"是不是就是屬於他們領土的延伸沒有錯對那所以太平島是不是中華民國台灣的其中的一部分這個還需要是一個總統登島才能夠宣示的嗎沒有他的事實的存在就是我們的主權"},{"start":179.311,"end":198.996,"text":"那如果是這樣的話,主權確定,那麼接下來當然還有另外一個論述是說,哎呀,現在那附近,南海附近很亂啦,然後呢,這個紛擾不斷啦,我們就用一個和平宣言來做一個宣示,表示這裡我們就要愛好和平,但是我們知道的,這個南海紛爭不斷啦,"},{"start":200.731,"end":228.508,"text":"那包括現在主權的聲索國除了我們台灣之外中國、菲律賓、越南、馬來西亞、汶萊跟印尼我剛剛前面就講了外交、國防其實是一體的現在在那裡頭到底整個南海附近的海域如果就外交來研判現在最近是一個什麼樣的狀態因為很多國人說實話比起金門的三無船他們是比較關注的因為我們有漁民在那裡捕魚"},{"start":229.108,"end":253.181,"text":"但是南海的情勢他們其實不見得會了解或是新聞跳出來他們也會跳過去最近開始關注是因為在黨的委員認為應該讓蔡英文總統在卸任之前先上太平島來宣示一下主權但當然你已經說過了嘛宣示主權的方式其實很多種更何況我們主權就在那不用特別去做這樣的"},{"start":253.601,"end":259.434,"text":"那南海的情勢又是如何呢?很多民眾其實是不了解的到底現在南海的情勢、狀況是什麼樣的一個紛爭?"},{"start":262.681,"end":286.119,"text":"非常謝謝委員這個問題的確是非常的重要那在過去這一兩個禮拜國際媒體上面不斷的去報導就是說中國的海巡跟菲律賓的海巡在海上有衝撞那甚至是有四個菲律賓的海巡人員受傷那這個只是媒體上面所看到的一個小小的一個衝突而已那其實在南海議題上面"},{"start":287.284,"end":311.797,"text":"中國除了用海巡船之外他也有四五百艘的那個海上民兵就是說四五百噸級的這個漁船上面是有武裝的那這些是他們的解放軍所指揮的那除了這個之外我們經常性看到的這些情資也可以看到中國經常性的有20艘以上的軍艦在南海這邊在巡邏"},{"start":312.737,"end":338.516,"text":"除了這個之外南海上面也有好幾個島礁中國都已經把它建立成為一個龐大的這種軍事基地所以在南海的這個情勢的確是很緊張那有很多的這些美國的學者對於印太地區有很深入研究他們覺得說南海甚至是比台灣海峽是更危險更容易製造戰爭衝突的一個地方"},{"start":339.315,"end":359.406,"text":"那所以說就您的外交專業在這麼多的國家都在這裡因為不論是捕魚權或者是所他們預見的可能的石油的礦產權大家都在這裡可能有一處急發的衝突的過程當中我們還有一些大動作的作為在外交上面這是一個好的選項或選擇嗎"},{"start":361.487,"end":388.445,"text":"我們必須要去衡量以我的觀點來看的話如果說我們這邊去造成一個印象就是說我們台灣不是在製造和平而是在製造爭端的話那這個對我們台灣來講是不好的尤其是在南海的這個區域緊張情勢越來越升高的狀況之下就好像剛剛在回答陳委員所說的我們必須要在國際社會上面結盟"},{"start":389.105,"end":403.246,"text":"那在國際社會上面如果說要結盟要吸引到更多的國家對我們支持的話那這些國家看待我們的時候就必須要看待我們說我們是一個認真負責的我們是一個提倡和平穩定的好其實我們"},{"start":404.407,"end":428.744,"text":"滿意部長講到這個部分那就是我強調的很多時候不是先踏出去那一步引發不必要的誤會包括我們知道美非之間有一些共同防禦的協議對於南海大家都是站在一種希望和平共存的方式如果可以的話我們要做的是一種民主的結盟而不是說現在我們就直接去挑起不必要的爭端跟誤會那麼"},{"start":430.485,"end":451.583,"text":"本席也認為啦就是說在這樣的一個狀況底下尤其前一陣子我們在這個委員會裡面還在討論三無船相關的事情其實如果是這樣的話我都覺得說與其到南海去引發紛爭不如大家一起到前線去幫我們海巡國軍來打氣還比較好那接下來我要問的另外一個部分是有關於新南向的部分剛剛"},{"start":453.604,"end":473.549,"text":"羅美玲委員關注的是有關於跨國婚姻的部分但是在疫情解封之後更多的國人關注的是說那麼我們要出國的時候到底可不可以有更便利的免簽那麼台灣的護照確實走向全世界非常的好用那麼也非常的有價值拿出這一本象徵台灣的護照"},{"start":475.689,"end":494.297,"text":"會感到光榮感之外當然就是許多的落地免簽不過我們現在來看一下就是有沒有機會可以爭取更多尤其是東南亞新南向的國家因為畢竟近那包括氣候環境等等大家國人也都非常喜歡我們現在事半14天的免簽適用的國家是他們來就是包括像泰國、汶萊、菲律賓這是讓他們來促進我們的觀光"},{"start":503.601,"end":506.463,"text":"他們可以免簽但是剛剛我所講的是那對於國人來講有沒有機會在免簽的部分做一些平等的互惠的部分在泰國的部分現在確實是有落地的免簽但是直到今年的5月10號"},{"start":518.954,"end":519.334,"text":"有另外問來"},{"start":536.599,"end":536.779,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":555.044,"end":568.951,"text":"請問部長的是目前這三個國家既然我們都事半14天的免簽讓他們的國人可以來台灣促進觀光那麼下一步的互惠的部分有沒有可能在持續的推動中或是在溝通當中"},{"start":570.187,"end":596.226,"text":"我們都正在推動當中每一個國家都是我們希望能夠去爭取有這種互惠的這些措施但是每一個國家的條件都不一樣在這邊委員所列出來這三個國家尤其是像泰國他們已經給我們免簽這段時間是免簽了接下來希望他們能夠延長這個部分我們正在積極的跟他們接洽當中希望是能夠延長"},{"start":596.886,"end":598.368,"text":"我現在是不敢打包票但是我們有積極的去跟對方來接洽當中"},{"start":613.194,"end":626.483,"text":"吳釗燮和菲律賓呢?因為當然吳釗燮這個國家相對的過去大家可能在觀光上面不是這麼的了解但是菲律賓的話我相信他也是一個我們旅遊的大宗的國家那這兩個國家會朝儘量去免簽的方向去努力嗎?那麼有沒有什麼進度跟進展?"},{"start":633.188,"end":645.034,"text":"在這邊跟委員報告一下有關於菲律賓的狀況這個是比較困難的啦就是菲律賓他的在台灣的這個代表機構就是MECO其實是靠簽證的這個費用來維繫他的這個能量"},{"start":649.036,"end":661.746,"text":"那所以我們每次跟他們談到免簽他們也有意願然後要談到最後的時候就會碰上這個關卡那我們必須要跟他們認真的來繼續去恰看看是不是能夠有機會獲得他們的免簽的這個回應"},{"start":664.588,"end":684.785,"text":"好因為現在是3月馬上4月會有一波的這個春節假期春假期間然後再來呢當然就是暑假了那麼當然國人會非常關心這個部分有的時候這樣子反而是跟國人最息息相關那最後當然最新的報導也說了就是越南也在左手眼裡擴大單方向的免錢是那麼我們也希望台灣有機會能夠"},{"start":690.009,"end":690.249,"text":"主席"}]}}}}