{"id":150096,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150096","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192a658eda2969b8ad92c38239db8676b4ff8ba9b0039caa7a6f82bc5d892225b265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:05:15 - 10:16:59","影片長度":"00:11:44","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":704,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:16:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:05:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":480,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時5分）是不是請部長？"],["主席：請部長。"],["許部長銘春：王委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。最近發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生這樣的一個重大兒虐案件，從這個個案，其實大家更關心的是到底還有多少移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得好的安置跟照顧。如果我們從監察院的報告來看的話，之前其實有糾正勞動部，就是你們在作為上應該要更積極。我們也看到，事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的移工，他們懷孕生子的情況坦白講是滿普遍的，就你們的統計，每一年懷孕產檢的人數都幾乎超過5,000人，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：差不多，對。"],["王委員育敏：本席拿到的數據大概都超過5,000人，領取生育給付離境的大概是六成到七成之間，也就是說，有一些移工懷孕產子之後其實也沒有離境，他就繼續留在臺灣，而留在臺灣只有兩種可能：一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好，他可以邊工作邊照顧他的孩子一段時間；另外一種他可能就會被迫，因為他有小孩，他不容易轉換雇主，所以就變成逃逸的移工，然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏。剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候，你說事實上黑戶有高達1萬8,000戶。"],["許部長銘春：這是20年來的統計。"],["王委員育敏：20年來就是有1萬8,000戶，根據近幾年本席看到的數據，109年1月到112年9月是1,349人，我關心的是黑戶寶寶，這是浮上檯面的，那可能還有潛在的、我們不知道的，到底被監察院糾正完之後，你們的積極作為是什麼？你們自己有沒有去看到底真的改善了多少？如果上個禮拜還出現逃逸移工他自己不敢出面，然後還要有送到關愛之家，再由關愛之家送到醫院，那你從一個個案就可以看到他們的處境有多麼的艱難，就是作為爸爸或媽媽，孩子生病卻不敢親自帶著他上醫院，這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢？我們要怎麼保障呢？我覺得這不會只是一例啊！"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，有關黑戶寶寶的問題，我剛才回答其實是要跨部會來處理……"],["王委員育敏：那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位？我問一個問題，主責單位是誰？應該是你們吧！"],["許部長銘春：衛福部，黑戶寶寶……"],["王委員育敏：黑戶寶寶是衛福部嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是，是衛福部。"],["王委員育敏：好，請次長上來說明，你們引進的勞工，結果卻變成是衛福部要來收攤子！來，次長你說。"],["李次長麗芬：我們是針對黑戶寶寶有一個跨部會還有縣市的聯繫平臺，最重要是針對他是沒有人照顧，然後有被通報出來或者是團體協助，針對這部分，我們社政這邊就會提供相關的協助。"],["王委員育敏：所以是你們主責？"],["李次長麗芬：對。"],["王委員育敏：那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的黑戶寶寶？你要怎麼去找到他們？你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線？或是你透過什麼間接的方式，譬如說你現在跟關愛之家合作，那合作量有多大？我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾？你們有掌握嗎？針對現在服務還不到位的，到底更積極的處遇方式是什麼？譬如說之前我們在防疫期間就有一個類似特赦的條款，也就是說，你雖然是逃逸移工，你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分，你就放心來打吧！現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩，那個壓力真的是倍增，他要如何有勇氣，或者你們透過怎樣的溝通，讓他真的放心說你們不會去追究他，請他先把孩子顧好，孩子只要生病，媽媽可以帶來醫院沒有關係，他的身分不會被暴露，你們也不會去追究他，就是不會請移民署來抓他，這個你們有做嗎？有做得很細膩嗎？如果之前還都必須一直透過關愛之家來做的話，我覺得在移工的心裡，他們就是會有一種很大的不安全感，怕被發現、怕被遣返，那你們怎麼處理？"],["李次長麗芬：因為有多少個黑戶寶寶，我們社政單位往往都是在接到通報之後，才有辦法……"],["王委員育敏：那前端部分，你認為哪一個部會應該幫你們？"],["李次長麗芬：前段的部分，我們在行政院是有一些討論，可能還包括移民署，包括勞動部，如果有掌握的話，就是現在在行政院討論，如何確實鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶的父母親，讓他們願意把小孩帶出來，由政府提供相關的……"],["王委員育敏：那你們討論的真的有點慢，這個問題其實已經存在一段時間，那我直接問你，行政院由哪一位政委來主導這件事？"],["李次長麗芬：有兩個政委在負責。"],["王委員育敏：多久開會一次？"],["李次長麗芬：現在是看各個單位要做的事情的進度，由政委來協調……"],["王委員育敏：其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的，就像我剛剛講的，如果每年都有5,000位移工懷孕，領取我們的生育給付，那你就要知道這已經變成是常態性的問題，不是個案，也不是特例，當我們大量引進移工的時候，你就要正視這個問題，並且要有個專責單位日常性的處理，而不是像你們這樣，用臨時召集的專案方式來面對，這是解決不了問題的。所以我要求你們回去跟行政院報告，是不是在這件事情上，可以從體制內真的有專人好好處理，要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些移工，我們讓他來臺灣工作，但是他在臺灣生了小孩之後的權益，我們卻沒有辦法給他應有的保障。我們講究我們是人權國家，每一個孩子在我們臺灣這片土地上，都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧，包括移工的小孩，這個部分我要求改善。好了，次長你請回。","接下來我要問的是有關於社福移工跟產業移工福利待遇不一樣的問題。產業移工現在在生育給付上是沒有問題，但社福移工如果懷孕的話，就本席所知，目前是沒辦法申請生育給付。部長，同樣都是移工，社福移工懷孕卻完全沒有生育給付……"],["許部長銘春：機構的話會有，但是家庭看護工……"],["王委員育敏：家庭看護工是很大量的。"],["許部長銘春：對，家庭是很大量，但因為他沒有加勞保，不是……"],["王委員育敏：那你要處理啊！在你的各項基金裡面，應該要讓他們的福利條件一致，無論是家庭看顧的、機構雇用的，或者產業移工，你們之前……"],["許部長銘春：主要是……"],["王委員育敏：沒有看到這個現象，沒有想要去解決嗎？因為我們現在比較多的是家庭看護的移工。"],["許部長銘春：對啊！報告委員……"],["王委員育敏：因為我時間有限，部長，這個部分我要求你必須回去研議，坦白講，你們勞動部很有錢，你們的基金很多，在各項基金裡面，應該針對這個部分拿出一筆基金，補貼給他們生育給付，而不是說今天移工是到家庭，就是運氣比較差，我們沒有辦法給付，到企業的產業移工，就沒有關係，進了機構的也可以幫忙，那就是漏掉一塊啊！這個部分要處理、要解決，部長，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我請……"],["王委員育敏：你回去研議。"],["許部長銘春：好，我們來研議看看。"],["王委員育敏：好，最後就是有關於勞工育兒問題，現在看到的是公務人員跟勞工還是差別很大，在有薪的家庭照顧假上，公務人員可以併有薪事假，完全沒有問題，他們還有每年7天的幼兒照顧假，就是6歲以下的兒童都可以，但是勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假，也沒有幼兒照顧假。部長，作為勞工的大家長，你要怎麼樣縮短這樣的差距？有在研議嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為主要是……"],["王委員育敏：錢的問題？"],["許部長銘春：錢的問題，對。"],["王委員育敏：現在少子化問題嚴重，我們可不可以跟企業溝通，或者在立法院裡大家討論出共識，至少從家裡有6歲以下的幼兒先執行，不行嗎？之前大家談到的是適用所有勞工、所有對象，經費可能很高，我之前擔任立法委員時就已經分析過這個問題，如果把它切到是6歲以下的孩子，經費大概是三分之一，雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重，我們就逐步來實施，從可以做的先開始做，這一點，我也請部長回去再研議，這個也是回應我們少子化的問題，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，我們來研議。"],["王委員育敏：另外一個是在企業的部分，這個本席過去擔任立委的時候也是下修，就是規定100人以上的企業要設置托兒措施或設施，但幾年下來，現在看到施行的狀況並不理想，真正有設置的就是1.2%，比率真的太少了，多數企業大概就是用少數津貼來交差了事。臺灣其實是有很多營運很好的企業，坦白講，他們是有能力的，也應該做，或者包括這麼龐大的政府機關也應該做，請問，勞動部自己本身有設嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有，我們有。"],["王委員育敏：好，那你們做了很好的示範。這個部分，我覺得推動得也是太弱了，我們一直講少子化，一直希望建構一個更友善的托育環境，但是在企業這一塊、在機關這一塊，營運能力很強的這些比較大的企業或是機關，速度其實是非常緩慢的，這一塊我希望部長要放在心裡……"],["許部長銘春：好，我們會繼續來努力。"],["王委員育敏：照顧孩子不是只有衛福部的工作，勞動部也可以發揮非常大的能量，因為多數的勞工跟企業其實是聽你們的，不聽衛福部的，你們握有行政權，就應該好好善用這個行政權，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員育敏：我們一起來建構一個更友善的環境，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員，謝謝部長。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：接下來請涂權吉委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","范雲","李坤城","洪孟楷","李彥秀","吳沛憶","洪申翰","牛煦庭","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","陳瑩","楊曜","王鴻薇","張啓楷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主\n責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境\n及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131801_00014"}},"transcript":{"id":"150096","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150096","tool":"pyannote","id":"150096-pyannote"},"job_id":"X8FQuRBCFOUtaAis","queued_at":"2024-06-02 00:27:02","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 00:27:02","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150096"},{"time":"2024-06-02 00:27:03","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192a658eda2969b8ad92c38239db8676b4f39fe8f237991028f1b0042045124b01f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-02 00:27:24","msg":"converting mp4 to 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00:01:04,962\n那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對\n\n4\n00:01:10,008 --> 00:01:25,635\n本期拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境\n\n5\n00:01:26,495 --> 00:01:42,487\n他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主\n\n6\n00:01:43,528 --> 00:01:49,110\n所以就變成是托育的這個乙工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎\n\n7\n00:01:59,273 --> 00:02:13,886\n就是有一萬八千戶那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嘛那我關心的是黑戶寶寶就是這是浮上檯面的喔\n\n8\n00:02:14,306 --> 00:02:34,476\n那可能還有潛在的我們不知道的那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這一種逃逸公他自己不敢出面然後還要有人\n\n9\n00:02:36,377 --> 00:02:58,155\n然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢我們要怎麼保障呢我覺得這個不會只是一例啊\n\n10\n00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:26,003\n跟委員報告,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的主責,你們現在我問一個主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部?是,是衛福部好,那理事長上來講你們引進的勞工然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子來,市長你說\n\n11\n00:03:28,166 --> 00:03:31,930\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進\n\n12\n00:03:45,659 --> 00:03:50,242\n為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大?\n\n13\n00:04:10,436 --> 00:04:36,951\n我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增\n\n14\n00:04:37,851 --> 00:04:57,114\n那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你\n\n15\n00:04:58,095 --> 00:05:22,334\n這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在\n\n16\n00:05:23,255 --> 00:05:30,858\n接到通報之後才有辦法提供選擇。」前段這個部分我們在行政院這邊有一些討論可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以\n\n17\n00:05:45,344 --> 00:05:45,944\n行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事?\n\n18\n00:06:01,764 --> 00:06:27,424\n各個單位要做的事情的一個進展任務其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位\n\n19\n00:06:29,225 --> 00:06:44,373\n日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。\n\n20\n00:06:45,734 --> 00:07:04,679\n要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩\n\n21\n00:07:11,564 --> 00:07:29,879\n有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工\n\n22\n00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:45,456\n那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付?機構的話會有但是家庭看護工家庭是很大量對家庭是很大量那因為他沒有加勞保他不是那你要處理啊\n\n23\n00:07:46,116 --> 00:08:07,674\n你的基金在你的各項基金裡面你就應該要讓這一個無論是家庭看顧的、機構看顧用的或者是產業移工他的福利條件應該是一致吧你們之前沒有看到這個現象沒有想要去解決嗎因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這些移工啊\n\n24\n00:08:09,535 --> 00:08:12,137\n負責職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平\n\n25\n00:08:38,734 --> 00:09:05,762\n這一個部分要處理、要解決。部長,可以嗎?你回去研議。我們來研議看看。好,那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒,我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大。在有薪的家庭照顧假,這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕,完全沒有問題。他們還有幼兒照顧假,每年7天,就是6歲以下的。\n\n26\n00:09:06,522 --> 00:09:21,073\n他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個\n\n27\n00:09:25,898 --> 00:09:39,987\n錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嘛不行嗎\n\n28\n00:09:41,976 --> 00:10:07,566\n因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個\n\n29\n00:10:08,226 --> 00:10:23,813\n另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業100人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施警的狀況不理想\n\n30\n00:10:25,794 --> 00:10:55,023\n真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範\n\n31\n00:10:55,903 --> 00:11:06,337\n那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或是機關\n\n32\n00:11:11,824 --> 00:11:37,320\n其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝\n\n33\n00:11:39,864 --> 00:11:41,095\n好,謝謝汪偉仁,謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6274\t7118\t好,我們是不是請部長部長請\n13840\t37109\t黃委員好 部長好部長我想最近因為發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生然後這樣的一個重大惡劣案件大家從這個個案其實更關心的是到底還有多少這種移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得一個好的安置跟照顧那如果我們從監察院的一個報告來看的話\n40450\t64962\t那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對\n70008\t85635\t本期拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境\n86495\t102487\t他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主\n103528\t109110\t所以就變成是托育的這個乙工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎\n119273\t133886\t就是有一萬八千戶那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嘛那我關心的是黑戶寶寶就是這是浮上檯面的喔\n134306\t154476\t那可能還有潛在的我們不知道的那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這一種逃逸公他自己不敢出面然後還要有人\n156377\t178155\t然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢我們要怎麼保障呢我覺得這個不會只是一例啊\n180250\t206003\t跟委員報告,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的主責,你們現在我問一個主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部?是,是衛福部好,那理事長上來講你們引進的勞工然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子來,市長你說\n208166\t211930\t立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進\n225659\t230242\t為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大?\n250436\t276951\t我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增\n277851\t297114\t那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你\n298095\t322334\t這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在\n323255\t330858\t接到通報之後才有辦法提供選擇。」前段這個部分我們在行政院這邊有一些討論可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以\n345344\t345944\t行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事?\n361764\t387424\t各個單位要做的事情的一個進展任務其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位\n389225\t404373\t日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。\n405734\t424679\t要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩\n431564\t449879\t有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工\n450760\t465456\t那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付?機構的話會有但是家庭看護工家庭是很大量對家庭是很大量那因為他沒有加勞保他不是那你要處理啊\n466116\t487674\t你的基金在你的各項基金裡面你就應該要讓這一個無論是家庭看顧的、機構看顧用的或者是產業移工他的福利條件應該是一致吧你們之前沒有看到這個現象沒有想要去解決嗎因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這些移工啊\n489535\t492137\t負責職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平\n518734\t545762\t這一個部分要處理、要解決。部長,可以嗎?你回去研議。我們來研議看看。好,那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒,我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大。在有薪的家庭照顧假,這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕,完全沒有問題。他們還有幼兒照顧假,每年7天,就是6歲以下的。\n546522\t561073\t他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個\n565898\t579987\t錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嘛不行嗎\n581976\t607566\t因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個\n608226\t623813\t另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業100人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施警的狀況不理想\n625794\t655023\t真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範\n655903\t666337\t那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或是機關\n671824\t697320\t其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝\n699864\t701095\t好,謝謝汪偉仁,謝謝部長\n","txt":"好,我們是不是請部長部長請\n黃委員好 部長好部長我想最近因為發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生然後這樣的一個重大惡劣案件大家從這個個案其實更關心的是到底還有多少這種移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得一個好的安置跟照顧那如果我們從監察院的一個報告來看的話\n那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對\n本期拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境\n他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主\n所以就變成是托育的這個乙工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎\n就是有一萬八千戶那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嘛那我關心的是黑戶寶寶就是這是浮上檯面的喔\n那可能還有潛在的我們不知道的那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這一種逃逸公他自己不敢出面然後還要有人\n然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢我們要怎麼保障呢我覺得這個不會只是一例啊\n跟委員報告,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的主責,你們現在我問一個主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部?是,是衛福部好,那理事長上來講你們引進的勞工然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子來,市長你說\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進\n為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大?\n我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增\n那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你\n這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在\n接到通報之後才有辦法提供選擇。」前段這個部分我們在行政院這邊有一些討論可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以\n行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事?\n各個單位要做的事情的一個進展任務其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位\n日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。\n要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩\n有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工\n那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付?機構的話會有但是家庭看護工家庭是很大量對家庭是很大量那因為他沒有加勞保他不是那你要處理啊\n你的基金在你的各項基金裡面你就應該要讓這一個無論是家庭看顧的、機構看顧用的或者是產業移工他的福利條件應該是一致吧你們之前沒有看到這個現象沒有想要去解決嗎因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這些移工啊\n負責職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平\n這一個部分要處理、要解決。部長,可以嗎?你回去研議。我們來研議看看。好,那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒,我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大。在有薪的家庭照顧假,這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕,完全沒有問題。他們還有幼兒照顧假,每年7天,就是6歲以下的。\n他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個\n錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嘛不行嗎\n因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個\n另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業100人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施警的狀況不理想\n真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範\n那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或是機關\n其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝\n好,謝謝汪偉仁,謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.274 --> 00:07.118\n好,我們是不是請部長部長請\n\n00:13.840 --> 00:37.109\n黃委員好部長好部長我想最近因為發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生然後這樣的一個重大惡劣案件大家從這個個案其實更關心的是到底還有多少這種移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得一個好的安置跟照顧那如果我們從監察院的一個報告來看的話\n\n00:40.450 --> 01:04.962\n那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對\n\n01:10.008 --> 01:25.635\n本期拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境\n\n01:26.495 --> 01:42.487\n他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主\n\n01:43.528 --> 01:49.110\n所以就變成是托育的這個乙工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎\n\n01:59.273 --> 02:13.886\n就是有一萬八千戶那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嘛那我關心的是黑戶寶寶就是這是浮上檯面的喔\n\n02:14.306 --> 02:34.476\n那可能還有潛在的我們不知道的那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這一種逃逸公他自己不敢出面然後還要有人\n\n02:36.377 --> 02:58.155\n然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢我們要怎麼保障呢我覺得這個不會只是一例啊\n\n03:00.250 --> 03:26.003\n跟委員報告,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的主責,你們現在我問一個主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部?是,是衛福部好,那理事長上來講你們引進的勞工然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子來,市長你說\n\n03:28.166 --> 03:31.930\n立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進\n\n03:45.659 --> 03:50.242\n為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大?\n\n04:10.436 --> 04:36.951\n我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增\n\n04:37.851 --> 04:57.114\n那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你\n\n04:58.095 --> 05:22.334\n這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在\n\n05:23.255 --> 05:30.858\n接到通報之後才有辦法提供選擇。」前段這個部分我們在行政院這邊有一些討論可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以\n\n05:45.344 --> 05:45.944\n行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事?\n\n06:01.764 --> 06:27.424\n各個單位要做的事情的一個進展任務其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位\n\n06:29.225 --> 06:44.373\n日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。\n\n06:45.734 --> 07:04.679\n要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩\n\n07:11.564 --> 07:29.879\n有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工\n\n07:30.760 --> 07:45.456\n那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付?機構的話會有但是家庭看護工家庭是很大量對家庭是很大量那因為他沒有加勞保他不是那你要處理啊\n\n07:46.116 --> 08:07.674\n你的基金在你的各項基金裡面你就應該要讓這一個無論是家庭看顧的、機構看顧用的或者是產業移工他的福利條件應該是一致吧你們之前沒有看到這個現象沒有想要去解決嗎因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這些移工啊\n\n08:09.535 --> 08:12.137\n負責職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平\n\n08:38.734 --> 09:05.762\n這一個部分要處理、要解決。部長,可以嗎?你回去研議。我們來研議看看。好,那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒,我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大。在有薪的家庭照顧假,這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕,完全沒有問題。他們還有幼兒照顧假,每年7天,就是6歲以下的。\n\n09:06.522 --> 09:21.073\n他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個\n\n09:25.898 --> 09:39.987\n錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嘛不行嗎\n\n09:41.976 --> 10:07.566\n因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個\n\n10:08.226 --> 10:23.813\n另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業100人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施警的狀況不理想\n\n10:25.794 --> 10:55.023\n真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範\n\n10:55.903 --> 11:06.337\n那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或是機關\n\n11:11.824 --> 11:37.320\n其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝\n\n11:39.864 --> 11:41.095\n好,謝謝汪偉仁,謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.274,"end":7.118,"text":"好,我們是不是請部長部長請"},{"start":13.84,"end":37.109,"text":"黃委員好 部長好部長我想最近因為發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生然後這樣的一個重大惡劣案件大家從這個個案其實更關心的是到底還有多少這種移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得一個好的安置跟照顧那如果我們從監察院的一個報告來看的話"},{"start":40.45,"end":64.962,"text":"那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對"},{"start":70.008,"end":85.635,"text":"本期拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境"},{"start":86.495,"end":102.487,"text":"他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主"},{"start":103.528,"end":109.11,"text":"所以就變成是托育的這個乙工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎"},{"start":119.273,"end":133.886,"text":"就是有一萬八千戶那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嘛那我關心的是黑戶寶寶就是這是浮上檯面的喔"},{"start":134.306,"end":154.476,"text":"那可能還有潛在的我們不知道的那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這一種逃逸公他自己不敢出面然後還要有人"},{"start":156.377,"end":178.155,"text":"然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢我們要怎麼保障呢我覺得這個不會只是一例啊"},{"start":180.25,"end":206.003,"text":"跟委員報告,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的主責,你們現在我問一個主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部?是,是衛福部好,那理事長上來講你們引進的勞工然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子來,市長你說"},{"start":208.166,"end":211.93,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進"},{"start":225.659,"end":230.242,"text":"為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大?"},{"start":250.436,"end":276.951,"text":"我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增"},{"start":277.851,"end":297.114,"text":"那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你"},{"start":298.095,"end":322.334,"text":"這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在"},{"start":323.255,"end":330.858,"text":"接到通報之後才有辦法提供選擇。」前段這個部分我們在行政院這邊有一些討論可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以"},{"start":345.344,"end":345.944,"text":"行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事?"},{"start":361.764,"end":387.424,"text":"各個單位要做的事情的一個進展任務其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位"},{"start":389.225,"end":404.373,"text":"日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。"},{"start":405.734,"end":424.679,"text":"要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩"},{"start":431.564,"end":449.879,"text":"有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工"},{"start":450.76,"end":465.456,"text":"那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付?機構的話會有但是家庭看護工家庭是很大量對家庭是很大量那因為他沒有加勞保他不是那你要處理啊"},{"start":466.116,"end":487.674,"text":"你的基金在你的各項基金裡面你就應該要讓這一個無論是家庭看顧的、機構看顧用的或者是產業移工他的福利條件應該是一致吧你們之前沒有看到這個現象沒有想要去解決嗎因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這些移工啊"},{"start":489.535,"end":492.137,"text":"負責職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平"},{"start":518.734,"end":545.762,"text":"這一個部分要處理、要解決。部長,可以嗎?你回去研議。我們來研議看看。好,那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒,我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大。在有薪的家庭照顧假,這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕,完全沒有問題。他們還有幼兒照顧假,每年7天,就是6歲以下的。"},{"start":546.522,"end":561.073,"text":"他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個"},{"start":565.898,"end":579.987,"text":"錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嘛不行嗎"},{"start":581.976,"end":607.566,"text":"因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個"},{"start":608.226,"end":623.813,"text":"另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業100人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施警的狀況不理想"},{"start":625.794,"end":655.023,"text":"真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範"},{"start":655.903,"end":666.337,"text":"那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或是機關"},{"start":671.824,"end":697.32,"text":"其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝"},{"start":699.864,"end":701.095,"text":"好,謝謝汪偉仁,謝謝部長"}]}}}}