{"id":150098,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150098","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1926bc9774150e1505b135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a6df663d1e515b30ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"10:07:55 - 10:23:49","影片長度":"00:15:54","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":954,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:23:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:07:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":253,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時7分）謝謝主席，我想請吳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。我看到今天您的業務報告裡面沒有提到大家都很關心的太平島，但是今天很多委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問，首先想要問，您作為外交部長，認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是整個政府的責任，我想跟人民是有這種共識的。"],["徐委員巧芯：是的，那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是兩回事，就是太平島是我們的主權，去不去不會改變太平島領土主權的地位。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是當這個主權在國際社會上有爭議的時候，我們的元首能夠登島代表什麼呢？代表我們可以向國際社會說明這個太平島確實屬於中華民國，而且很重要的是，因為過去它被認為，被某些人說它是岩礁，不是島，可是我們知道在太平島上面，我們自給自足，還有淡水，這些資訊或許中華民國的我們非常清楚，但是國際社會上不一定知道，所以我想問一下部長，如果能夠登島，對於維護領土主權沒有加分嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是說有沒有加分，而是說……"],["徐委員巧芯：能不能夠更讓國際社會理解到太平島，第一個，它的本質，第二個，它的主權屬於中華民國，不管外面的人怎麼講，但它實質的主權屬於中華民國，在這方面有沒有宣示性效果？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想太平島的主權就在那邊，我們的駐軍就在那邊，我們海巡的兄弟就在那邊，這個事實是已經存在了很久，而且會繼續存在下去。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以總統去不去，你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差，對國際社會也沒有差？"],["吳部長釗燮：對國際社會來講，最重要的是他們如何來看待臺灣，如果在南海紛擾的情況之下，我們被國際社會認為是一個負責任的、是一個能夠維持和平與穩定的，那這個對於我們爭取更多的友盟國家是有幫助的。"],["徐委員巧芯：這個很重要，您講的沒有錯，總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重，這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利，但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通，剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法，那您多次談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張，包含中共他們可能相關的一些鋪排等等，你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎？因為南海情勢緊張，所以不前往。"],["吳部長釗燮：就時機啦！"],["徐委員巧芯：時機？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是說那邊緊張就不要去……"],["徐委員巧芯：那這個緊張多久了？"],["吳部長釗燮：而是說我們必須要去爭取到對我們最有利的時機點來強化我們國家利益，那這個時機點有可能未來一段時間它的條件會改變，我們會仔細的來觀察。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問一下南海這個部分的緊張，從您的角度來說，大概從什麼時候到什麼時候？什麼時候開始變緊張的？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想從中國在2014年、2015年在南海建立島礁那時候開始，也就是南海軍事化的活動開始，它的緊張程度就不斷地提升。"],["徐委員巧芯：是。"],["吳部長釗燮：這一段期間中國在南海這邊的巡邏，採取了很多挑釁與威脅的作為。"],["徐委員巧芯：為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張，就沒辦法登島了？但是您剛談到的時間，2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候，實際上也是您剛所說比較緊張的這個範疇裡面，但是他去登島之後，一、沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息，我們是去發表了和平的倡議。二、也成功宣誓了主權。所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法，似乎沒有這麼搭嘎，所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了，那未來……"],["吳部長釗燮：我沒有說……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以不是緊張的關係，是其他的理由？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是，就是說現在去的這個時機並不是最妥當的一個時機。"],["徐委員巧芯：那不妥當的時機點的原因是什麼？你剛剛說是緊張，那我問你說是不是緊張所以不去，你又說不是。"],["吳部長釗燮：我沒有說不是……"],["徐委員巧芯：你沒有說不是喔！OK，理解。"],["吳部長釗燮：我的意思是說，目前南海的這個局勢、這個時機點，對我們來思考，就是我們政府的高層，尤其是我們的元首到那邊去，對我們國家的利益是有正面的影響、有負面的影響，我們必須要把它納入到考量之內。"],["徐委員巧芯：要評估？那請問一下部長，就您的瞭解，美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島，他們的態度是什麼？是有態度還是沒態度？是有認為不妥？還是認為尊重我們的決定？"],["吳部長釗燮：我沒有去問，他們也沒有來告訴我，所以這一題我沒有辦法回答。"],["徐委員巧芯：好的。美國的副總統賀錦麗在2022年11月的時候，在距離太平島300多公里的地方，面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉望，在菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講，也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持，當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的，但他們對他們的友邦，他們有提出了相關的重大演說，那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了？理由是什麼？"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告一下，在2016年的7月19號，那時候在國安會有一個國安會議，因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長，所以我記得非常清楚，那時候我們就做了非常重大的宣布，就是我們南海的政策是什麼，從那個時候開始我們的南海政策通通沒有改變，有人提起這個問題的時候，不管是國際媒體或者是國際訪賓問到我們的南海政策的時候，我們都會重新去申述我們的立場。"],["徐委員巧芯：那您會不會擔心說因為沒有登島的關係，就被外界解讀成比較偏向因為美國對菲律賓的主張支持，那我們不敢去違背美國，所以我們不敢登島？"],["吳部長釗燮：我不會去做這個解讀。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們不會去做這個解讀，但我們不會也不擔心有人會這麼說，是嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想最近是有媒體在說明，就是說似乎蔡總統有受到美方的壓力，我在這邊必須要很清楚地說明，就是沒有這個壓力，美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是新聞也有出現不具名的涉外人士，部長，我想我們也都不知道是誰，他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利，我對這句話是打了很大的問號，不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們主權的島上是讓中共得利？我想問一下部長，對於媒體上面所報載涉外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情，您認同嗎？您的看法是什麼？"],["吳部長釗燮：因為我不知道是誰……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們也不知道。"],["吳部長釗燮：也不曉得他思考的邏輯是什麼，但是以我的角度來看，現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高……"],["徐委員巧芯：是，這我們剛剛理解了。"],["吳部長釗燮：以我們整個大的戰略來講，就好像我剛剛回答陳委員的說明，我們大的戰略應該是爭取到更多國家的支持，所以我們必須要去爭取……"],["徐委員巧芯：當然，但是我們剛剛問的是，中共會因為我們去太平島而得利？我們也很擔心這件事情，因為我們5月中旬可能外交及國防委員會的人會去考察，如果您認為我們去太平島會讓中共得利，我們當然就不要去，但是如果不會，我們當然是希望去慰勞一下我們在中華民國領土上面的這些官兵，也傳達和平的訊息給國際社會，所以我才覺得這個問題很重要，要請你來做一下說明。"],["吳部長釗燮：我來做說明，委員要去，尤其是我們的召委要帶去，這是我們委員會的考量，我們都尊重，我們不會反對，但是有關於在南海地區，我們臺灣要扮演的這個角色，那倒是有話講，我們必須要讓我們的友盟國家、國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平與穩定維護現狀那一邊。"],["徐委員巧芯：站在和平與穩定維護現狀這一邊。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：但應該不會因為登島就導致於國際社會認為是中共得利吧？我比較在意這個，因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望的，但是如果因為我們中華民國包含是總統或是立委去到太平島會讓中共得利，如果這個傳出去，那不得了，因為我們沒有人想讓中共得利啊！所以如果您一句話，就是我們去了太平島會讓中共得利，我想我們所有人都不去了，所以我們希望……"],["吳部長釗燮：委員的決定我尊重。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你覺得不會嘛？還是只是尊重而已？"],["吳部長釗燮：委員的決定我尊重。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以……"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於總統的部分或者是整體政府的部分，我們必須要去抓緊……"],["徐委員巧芯：因為他只是一個涉外人士而已，他講錯，那也很正常，我們也不知道他是誰。所以針對類似這樣的說法，我會建議外交部要清楚地予以駁斥，否則的話，到時候誰去，有一天或許部長您也去啊，結果您變成中共同路人，這也不好吧！所以應該是我們的主權，我們的人去，我說了，總統去都不去，我都尊重，因為可能整體來說，他的情資也不見得一樣的考量，但是絕對不能讓外界認為誰去太平島，就是誰讓中共得利，這應該是錯誤的說法，部長您同意嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：我從來委員會之前，記者在問我，到剛剛有好多個委員在問我，我都把我的政策立場說明得非常清楚了，謝謝委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情，一個獨立運作的基金會，要改董監事的席次或是名單，是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個我問過了，有關於政黨的董事名單，民主基金會這邊是接到通知，他們就馬上改，所以有時間差……"],["徐委員巧芯：不、不。連席次的部分都改，這件事情是誰做的決定？因為席次是按照政黨比例，如果沒有開董事會或是臨時董事會，就算名單裡你的固定席次內可以更改，沒有問題，這是政黨決定，可是問題是席次的比例應該是開董事會或臨時董事會才能決定的事情，為什麼會有偷偷私下更改的情況？就你們的瞭解。"],["吳部長釗燮：我有問過民主基金會，執行長也在這邊，我就請執行長來說明好了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，說一下到底是誰決定的，好不好？我已經不想知道這個事情，你們覺得誰對誰錯。誰去改了這裡面的席次的？您嗎？"],["黃執行長玉霖：跟委員報告，我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定辦理。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次？5席、4席、1席，4席、4席、1席，這個比例的更動，不需要開董事會、臨時董事會？你想改就改？"],["黃執行長玉霖：組織章程裡面規定，我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數……"],["徐委員巧芯：是啊！現在席次是怎麼樣？"],["黃執行長玉霖：然後各政黨的席次做子數……"],["徐委員巧芯：現在已經是新的國會了，按照目前的政黨比例的席次，我們的比例應該怎麼分配？"],["黃執行長玉霖：我們是依照52席、51席、8席來計算，計算出來，國民黨4席、民進黨4席、民眾黨1席。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算？"],["黃執行長玉霖：就是這樣的計算方式。"],["徐委員巧芯：中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣？"],["黃執行長玉霖：組織章程裡面規定立院有改選……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們不是之前有改過，改成5席、4席、1席嗎？有沒有這件事？在網站上面的時候。"],["黃執行長玉霖：剛剛我們部長也有講，我們網站也有說明……"],["徐委員巧芯：3月6日的時候……"],["黃執行長玉霖：我們是公文來了以後，我們就會上網去更新。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是嘛！3月6日的時候，上面國民黨是幾個、民進黨是幾個、民眾黨是幾個嘛？"],["黃執行長玉霖：那個是在更新過程中間，我們在網站上面有說明很清楚……"],["徐委員巧芯：我問你是幾個，你跟我一直講網站更新。不好意思，主席，因為他沒有回答清楚，給我再多1分鐘的時間，請他把這件事情講清楚，好不好？","我就問你3月6日所謂改的時候，席次的部分，最後民進黨的席次，你上面填了五個人、國民黨填了四個人、民眾黨是一個人，有沒有這件事情嘛？"],["黃執行長玉霖：當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到，所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改，但是……"],["徐委員巧芯：不過你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣，你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西？"],["黃執行長玉霖：我們依照公文來辦事情，公文寄到了，我們就會依照章程來進行更新。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以後來3月13日為什麼要改掉，中間發生什麼事？6日到13日之間。"],["黃執行長玉霖：13日是因為民進黨的公文到了，所以我們上網去更新。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以民進黨的公文到了，你才更新，但是你們完全不管現在國會的席次比例，你就按照民進黨給你什麼，你就改什麼？"],["黃執行長玉霖：國會的席次比例，我們在2月6日已經行文各政黨了……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，您剛剛都已經說了，按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1，可是你在3月6日的時候，網站弄出了一個5比4比1，大家爭議的點是這個，你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會、臨時董事會？"],["黃執行長玉霖：我們在2月6日就行文各政黨，把4比4比1的席次通知各政黨，請各政黨提供推薦董事名單給我們。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以3月6日的時候，民進黨提供給你幾個名單？"],["黃執行長玉霖：3月13日提供的。"],["徐委員巧芯：那麼中間6日為什麼會改？"],["黃執行長玉霖：6日是因為中間有民眾黨的公文先到，我們就上網更新。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，然後呢？"],["黃執行長玉霖：然後國民黨……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是！民進黨多一個人是怎麼回事？為什麼會民進黨多一個人？"],["黃執行長玉霖：然後國民黨的公文到了，我們就更新國民黨的部分，最後3月13日，民進黨的公文到了以後，我們就更新民進黨的部分。"],["徐委員巧芯：可是你中間還把羅致政跟魏百谷對調啦！你不是說中間都沒有收到公文？"],["黃執行長玉霖：我們網站名單沒有對調。"],["徐委員巧芯：你的另外一張表上面是對調的，你是收到什麼公文去改了那張紙？"],["黃執行長玉霖：哪一張紙？"],["徐委員巧芯：就是羅致政跟魏白谷對調的那一份文件。"],["黃執行長玉霖：沒有，羅致政跟魏白谷那是還沒有更新之前的資訊，我們是在3月13日依照民進黨的公文，我們更改了民進黨的四個，這四個……"],["徐委員巧芯：主席，因為我時間不夠的關係，我再問一下，我們什麼時候要進行改選？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於改選的部分，其實是要先補選，因為上一任的董事長游錫堃辭職了，所以我們現在正在跟……"],["徐委員巧芯：時間的關係，可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們現在正在討論看什麼時候……"],["徐委員巧芯：因為你們「現在」很久了，所以是3月底還是4月初？最晚什麼時候會進行補選？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們必須要看未來的董事長，就是院長他能夠提供什麼時間給我，我們再跟他討論……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以目前在跟院長溝通時間？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例，您會按照民進黨立委的說法，還是你們會按照原本的慣例，董事長還是由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃？"],["吳部長釗燮：由立法院的院長來出任董事長，這個是一個長久的慣例，然後我去跟韓院長報告的時候，也是跟他報告我們朝向這個方向來規劃。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請黃仁委員上臺發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150098","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150098","tool":"pyannote","id":"150098-pyannote"},"job_id":"mUHUCjupi7trUfYe","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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158.134, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 158.134, \"end\": 158.294, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 158.294, \"end\": 158.514, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 158.514, \"end\": 158.775, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 158.775, \"end\": 158.875, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 158.875, \"end\": 159.035, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 159.035, \"end\": 159.135, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 159.135, \"end\": 159.355, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 159.355, \"end\": 159.455, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 159.455, \"end\": 159.716, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 159.716, \"end\": 159.856, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 159.856, \"end\": 160.016, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 160.016, \"end\": 160.317, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 178.751, \"end\": 179.131, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 179.131, \"end\": 179.492, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 179.492, \"end\": 179.692, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 179.692, \"end\": 179.972, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 179.972, \"end\": 180.112, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 180.112, \"end\": 180.172, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 180.172, \"end\": 180.192, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 180.192, \"end\": 180.732, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 180.732, \"end\": 180.832, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 180.832, \"end\": 180.852, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 180.852, \"end\": 180.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": 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638.299, \"text\": \"一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 613.544, \"end\": 614.084, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"獨\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 614.084, \"end\": 614.724, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 614.724, \"end\": 614.905, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 614.905, \"end\": 615.105, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 615.105, \"end\": 615.265, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 615.265, \"end\": 615.885, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 615.885, \"end\": 617.186, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 617.186, \"end\": 617.506, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 617.506, \"end\": 617.986, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 617.986, \"end\": 618.127, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": 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\"所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 798.405, \"end\": 798.525, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 798.525, \"end\": 798.585, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 798.585, \"end\": 799.046, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 799.046, \"end\": 799.186, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 799.186, \"end\": 799.346, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 799.346, \"end\": 799.546, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 799.546, \"end\": 799.706, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 799.706, \"end\": 799.826, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 799.826, \"end\": 799.946, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 799.946, \"end\": 800.126, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 800.126, \"end\": 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803.228, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 803.228, \"end\": 803.408, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 803.408, \"end\": 803.528, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 803.528, \"end\": 803.909, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 803.909, \"end\": 804.009, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 804.009, \"end\": 804.209, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 804.209, \"end\": 804.449, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 804.449, \"end\": 804.629, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 804.629, \"end\": 805.17, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 805.17, \"end\": 805.59, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 805.59, \"end\": 805.73, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 805.73, \"end\": 805.91, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 805.91, \"end\": 806.43, 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{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 809.332, \"end\": 809.733, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 809.733, \"end\": 809.973, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 809.973, \"end\": 810.173, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 810.173, \"end\": 810.673, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 810.673, \"end\": 811.114, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 811.114, \"end\": 811.254, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 811.254, \"end\": 811.434, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 811.434, \"end\": 811.634, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 811.634, \"end\": 811.974, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 811.974, \"end\": 812.094, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 812.094, \"end\": 812.234, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 812.234, \"end\": 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814.976, \"end\": 815.196, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 815.196, \"end\": 815.877, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 815.877, \"end\": 816.097, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"弄\", \"start\": 816.097, \"end\": 816.297, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 816.297, \"end\": 816.437, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 816.437, \"end\": 816.557, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 816.557, \"end\": 816.917, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 816.917, \"end\": 817.218, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 817.218, \"end\": 817.618, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 817.618, \"end\": 817.738, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 817.738, \"end\": 817.838, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 817.838, \"end\": 817.858, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 817.858, \"end\": 817.878, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 817.878, \"end\": 817.898, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 817.898, \"end\": 817.918, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 817.918, \"end\": 818.018, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 818.018, \"end\": 818.058, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 818.058, \"end\": 818.138, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 818.138, \"end\": 818.178, \"score\": 0.386}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 818.178, \"end\": 818.298, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 818.298, \"end\": 818.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 818.318, \"end\": 818.418, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"臨\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 818.418, \"end\": 818.458, \"score\": 0.079}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 818.458, \"end\": 818.478, \"score\": 0.053}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 822.261, \"end\": 824.363, \"text\": \"所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 822.261, \"end\": 822.321, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 822.321, \"end\": 822.361, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 822.361, \"end\": 822.521, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 822.521, \"end\": 822.641, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 822.641, \"end\": 822.661, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 822.661, \"end\": 822.741, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 822.741, \"end\": 822.762, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 822.762, \"end\": 822.862, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 822.862, \"end\": 822.882, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 822.882, \"end\": 822.902, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 822.902, \"end\": 823.062, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 823.062, \"end\": 823.482, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 823.482, \"end\": 823.602, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 823.602, \"end\": 823.642, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 823.642, \"end\": 823.843, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 823.843, \"end\": 824.063, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 824.063, \"end\": 824.163, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 824.163, \"end\": 824.243, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 824.243, \"end\": 824.343, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 824.343, \"end\": 824.363, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 843.406, \"end\": 850.769, \"text\": \"6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 843.406, \"end\": 843.926, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 843.926, \"end\": 844.307, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 844.307, \"end\": 844.567, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 844.567, \"end\": 845.147, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 845.147, \"end\": 845.347, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 845.347, \"end\": 845.687, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 845.687, \"end\": 845.867, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 845.867, \"end\": 846.047, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 846.047, \"end\": 846.327, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 846.327, \"end\": 847.048, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 847.048, \"end\": 847.068, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 847.068, \"end\": 847.228, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 847.228, \"end\": 847.628, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 847.628, \"end\": 847.868, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 847.868, \"end\": 848.248, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 848.248, \"end\": 848.268, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 848.268, \"end\": 848.388, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 848.388, \"end\": 848.528, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 848.528, \"end\": 848.548, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 848.548, \"end\": 848.568, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 848.568, \"end\": 848.709, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 935.509, \"end\": 935.709, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 935.709, \"end\": 936.249, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 936.249, \"end\": 936.409, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 936.409, \"end\": 936.929, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 936.929, \"end\": 937.17, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 937.17, \"end\": 937.31, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 937.31, \"end\": 937.43, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 937.43, \"end\": 937.89, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 937.89, \"end\": 938.07, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 938.07, \"end\": 938.17, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 938.17, \"end\": 938.51, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 938.51, \"end\": 938.65, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 938.65, \"end\": 938.811, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 938.811, \"end\": 938.831, \"score\": 0.467}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 939.531, \"end\": 939.551, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,471 --> 00:00:01,234\n謝謝主席我想請吳部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,931 --> 00:00:31,201\n我看到今天您的業務報告裡面是沒有提到大家都很關心的這個太平島的那但是今天很多的委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問那首先想要問您作為外交部長認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任\n\n3\n00:00:32,309 --> 00:00:48,883\n這是整個政府的責任,我想跟人民是有這種共識的。是的,那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分?這個是兩回事,就是太平島是我們的主權,去不去這個不會改變太平島的領土主權的地位。\n\n4\n00:00:51,325 --> 00:00:51,805\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n5\n00:01:08,852 --> 00:01:08,872\n吳釗燮報告業務\n\n6\n00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:45,812\n能不能更讓國際社會理解到太平島第一個它的本質第二個它的主權屬於中華民國不管外面的人怎麼講但它實質的主權屬於中華民國在這方面有沒有宣示性效果\n\n7\n00:01:46,597 --> 00:01:47,658\n所以總統去不去你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差對國際社會也沒有差\n\n8\n00:02:03,812 --> 00:02:04,293\n這個很重要,您講的沒有錯\n\n9\n00:02:24,376 --> 00:02:40,337\n總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法\n\n10\n00:02:40,717 --> 00:02:56,190\n那您多次的談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張包含中共他們可能相關的一些這個撲牌等等的你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎因為南海情勢緊張所以不前往\n\n11\n00:02:57,090 --> 00:03:01,013\n請問一下南海這個部分的緊張那從您的角度來說大概從什麼時候到什麼時候什麼時候開始變緊張的\n\n12\n00:03:24,202 --> 00:03:38,060\n我想從中國在2014年2015年那時候在南海建立島礁那時候開始也就是南海軍事化的這個活動開始他的緊張的程度就不斷的提升\n\n13\n00:03:38,601 --> 00:03:50,432\n那這一段期間中國在南海這邊的這個巡邏採取了很多這種挑釁危險的這些作為為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張就沒辦法登島了但是您剛談到的2016年嘛2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候\n\n14\n00:03:55,436 --> 00:04:19,873\n那實際上面也是您剛剛所說的比較緊張的這個範疇裡面但是他去登島之後一沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息我們是去發表了和平的倡議二也成功了宣誓的主權所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法似乎沒有這麼搭嘎那所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了那未來所以不是緊張的關係是其他的理由\n\n15\n00:04:20,673 --> 00:04:20,834\n徐巧芯\n\n16\n00:04:35,410 --> 00:04:36,611\n請問一下部長就您的了解美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島他們的態度是什麼\n\n17\n00:05:03,914 --> 00:05:15,941\n是有態度還是沒態度是有認為不妥還是認為尊重我們的決定我沒有去問他們也沒有來告訴我所以這一題我沒有辦法回答那這個美國的副總統賀錦麗他在2022年11月的時候在距離太平島300多公里的地方\n\n18\n00:05:24,406 --> 00:05:46,687\n面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉旺菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的但他們對他們的友邦他們有提出了相關的重大演說那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了\n\n19\n00:05:48,227 --> 00:06:05,796\n跟委員報告一下在2016年的7月19號那時候在國安會有一個國安會因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長所以我記得非常的清楚那時候我們就做了非常重大的這個宣布就是我們南海的政策是什麼\n\n20\n00:06:06,636 --> 00:06:07,036\n我不會去做這個解讀\n\n21\n00:06:34,958 --> 00:06:52,458\n我們不會去做指責但我們也不擔心有人會這麼說是嗎?我想那個最近是有那個媒體在說明就是說似乎蔡總統是有受到美方的這個壓力我在這邊必須要很清楚的說明就是沒有這個壓力美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題\n\n22\n00:06:53,499 --> 00:07:22,069\n好那但是新聞也有出現說社外人士不具名的我想部長我們也都不知道是誰他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利我對這句話我是打了很大的問號不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們的主權的島上是讓中共得利我想問一下部長對於媒體上面所報載社外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情您認同嗎您的看法是什麼\n\n23\n00:07:23,230 --> 00:07:46,825\n因為我不知道是誰也不曉得說他的那個思考的邏輯是什麼但是以我的這個角度來看的話就是說現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高是這我們剛剛理解了那以我們的那個整個大的戰略來講就好像我剛剛回答那個陳委員的這個說明的時候我們的大的戰略應該是爭取到更多的當然但我們剛剛問的是說中共會因為這樣子\n\n24\n00:07:50,367 --> 00:07:50,467\n我來做說明\n\n25\n00:08:17,952 --> 00:08:34,106\n就是說委員要去尤其是我們的召委要帶去的話那這個是我們的委員會的這個考量那我們都尊重我們不會反對那但是有關於那個在南海地區我們台灣要扮演的這個角色那倒是有話講\n\n26\n00:08:34,727 --> 00:08:45,992\n就是說我們必須要讓我們的有盟國家國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平穩定維護現狀這一邊但應該不會因為東島就導致於說這個國際社會認為是中共得利吧我比較在意這個因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望但是如果因為有人我們中華民國的包含是總統或是立委\n\n27\n00:08:58,797 --> 00:09:02,420\n委員的決定我尊重委員的決定我尊重有關於總統的部分或是整體政府的部分我們必須要去抓緊因為他只是一個涉外人士而已他講錯那也很正常我們也不知道他是誰\n\n28\n00:09:26,016 --> 00:09:49,867\n所以針對類似這樣子的說法我會建議外交部要清楚的予以駁斥否則的話到時候誰去有一天或許我想您也去啊結果您變成中共同路人這也不好吧所以應該是我們的主權我們的人去不管我說了總統去或不去我都尊重因為那是他有可能他整體來說他的情資也不見得一樣的考量\n\n29\n00:09:50,427 --> 00:09:51,047\n接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情\n\n30\n00:10:13,544 --> 00:10:38,299\n一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定\n\n31\n00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,162\n我有問過民主基金會那執行長也在這邊我就請執行長來說\n\n32\n00:11:05,938 --> 00:11:29,888\n說一下到底是誰決定的好不好我已經不想知道這個事情你們覺得誰對誰錯誰去改了這個誰去改了這個這個裡面的席次的您嗎跟委員報告我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次五席四席一席四席四席一席這個比例的更動不需要開董事會領事董事會你想改就改\n\n33\n00:11:30,528 --> 00:11:38,273\n組織章程裡面規定我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數然後各政黨的席次請問現在已經是新的國會了按照目前的政黨比例行次我們的比例應該怎麼分配我們是依照52518席來計算計算出來國民黨4席民進黨4席民眾黨1席\n\n34\n00:11:58,385 --> 00:12:12,940\n那所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算就是這樣的計算方法那中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣組織章程裡面規定立院有改選你們不是之前有改過改成五席四席一席嗎有沒有這件事\n\n35\n00:12:13,721 --> 00:12:25,652\n在網站上面的時候剛剛部長也有講我們網站也有說明3月6號的時候我們是公文來了以後我們就會上網去更新不是嗎你3月6號的時候上面國民黨是幾個民進黨是幾個民眾黨是幾個嗎\n\n36\n00:12:28,772 --> 00:12:49,989\n那個是在更新過程中間我們在網站上面有說明很清楚我問你是幾個你跟我一直講網站更新不好意思主席因為他沒有回答清楚給我再多一分鐘的時間請他把這個事情講清楚好不好就是你3月6號所謂的改的時候你是不是把席次的部分民進黨就用你上面填了五個人然後呢國民黨填了四個人民眾黨是一個人有沒有這件事情嗎\n\n37\n00:12:51,063 --> 00:13:17,965\n當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改但你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣阿你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西我們依照公文來辦事情阿公文寄到了我們就會依照章程來進行更新所以說那後來為什麼又要改掉3月13號中間發生什麼事6號到13號之間13號是因為民進黨的公文到了所以我們上網去更新阿\n\n38\n00:13:18,405 --> 00:13:38,478\n所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會\n\n39\n00:13:42,261 --> 00:13:44,363\n所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改\n\n40\n00:14:03,406 --> 00:14:10,769\n6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新\n\n41\n00:14:23,095 --> 00:14:33,929\n可是你中間你還把羅志正跟魏白骨對調啦那你不是中間說都沒有收到公文我們的網站沒有對調你的另外一張表上面是對調的那你是收到什麼公文去改的那張紙啊\n\n42\n00:14:34,824 --> 00:14:37,325\n主席因為我時間不夠的關係我最後再問一下這個我們什麼時候要進行改選謝謝這個\n\n43\n00:15:00,138 --> 00:15:18,417\n有關於改選的部分其實是要先補選因為董事長那個上一任的董事長那個游錫堃辭職了所以我們現在正在跟那個時間的關係可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明我們現在正在討論看什麼時候因為你們現在很久了所以是3月底還是4月初做完什麼時候會進行補選\n\n44\n00:15:20,239 --> 00:15:38,831\n我們必須要去看未來的董事長就是院長他能夠提供什麼事件給我現在目前在跟院長溝通時間那因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例但是您會按照民進黨立委說吧還是您們會按照原本的慣例還是由董事長由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃\n\n45\n00:15:39,531 --> 00:15:39,551\n謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n471\t1234\t謝謝主席我想請吳部長請部長\n11931\t31201\t我看到今天您的業務報告裡面是沒有提到大家都很關心的這個太平島的那但是今天很多的委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問那首先想要問您作為外交部長認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任\n32309\t48883\t這是整個政府的責任,我想跟人民是有這種共識的。是的,那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分?這個是兩回事,就是太平島是我們的主權,去不去這個不會改變太平島的領土主權的地位。\n51325\t51805\t徐巧芯徐巧芯\n68852\t68872\t吳釗燮報告業務\n92520\t105812\t能不能更讓國際社會理解到太平島第一個它的本質第二個它的主權屬於中華民國不管外面的人怎麼講但它實質的主權屬於中華民國在這方面有沒有宣示性效果\n106597\t107658\t所以總統去不去你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差對國際社會也沒有差\n123812\t124293\t這個很重要,您講的沒有錯\n144376\t160337\t總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法\n160717\t176190\t那您多次的談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張包含中共他們可能相關的一些這個撲牌等等的你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎因為南海情勢緊張所以不前往\n177090\t181013\t請問一下南海這個部分的緊張那從您的角度來說大概從什麼時候到什麼時候什麼時候開始變緊張的\n204202\t218060\t我想從中國在2014年2015年那時候在南海建立島礁那時候開始也就是南海軍事化的這個活動開始他的緊張的程度就不斷的提升\n218601\t230432\t那這一段期間中國在南海這邊的這個巡邏採取了很多這種挑釁危險的這些作為為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張就沒辦法登島了但是您剛談到的2016年嘛2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候\n235436\t259873\t那實際上面也是您剛剛所說的比較緊張的這個範疇裡面但是他去登島之後一沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息我們是去發表了和平的倡議二也成功了宣誓的主權所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法似乎沒有這麼搭嘎那所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了那未來所以不是緊張的關係是其他的理由\n260673\t260834\t徐巧芯\n275410\t276611\t請問一下部長就您的了解美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島他們的態度是什麼\n303914\t315941\t是有態度還是沒態度是有認為不妥還是認為尊重我們的決定我沒有去問他們也沒有來告訴我所以這一題我沒有辦法回答那這個美國的副總統賀錦麗他在2022年11月的時候在距離太平島300多公里的地方\n324406\t346687\t面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉旺菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的但他們對他們的友邦他們有提出了相關的重大演說那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了\n348227\t365796\t跟委員報告一下在2016年的7月19號那時候在國安會有一個國安會因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長所以我記得非常的清楚那時候我們就做了非常重大的這個宣布就是我們南海的政策是什麼\n366636\t367036\t我不會去做這個解讀\n394958\t412458\t我們不會去做指責但我們也不擔心有人會這麼說是嗎?我想那個最近是有那個媒體在說明就是說似乎蔡總統是有受到美方的這個壓力我在這邊必須要很清楚的說明就是沒有這個壓力美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題\n413499\t442069\t好那但是新聞也有出現說社外人士不具名的我想部長我們也都不知道是誰他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利我對這句話我是打了很大的問號不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們的主權的島上是讓中共得利我想問一下部長對於媒體上面所報載社外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情您認同嗎您的看法是什麼\n443230\t466825\t因為我不知道是誰也不曉得說他的那個思考的邏輯是什麼但是以我的這個角度來看的話就是說現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高是這我們剛剛理解了那以我們的那個整個大的戰略來講就好像我剛剛回答那個陳委員的這個說明的時候我們的大的戰略應該是爭取到更多的當然但我們剛剛問的是說中共會因為這樣子\n470367\t470467\t我來做說明\n497952\t514106\t就是說委員要去尤其是我們的召委要帶去的話那這個是我們的委員會的這個考量那我們都尊重我們不會反對那但是有關於那個在南海地區我們台灣要扮演的這個角色那倒是有話講\n514727\t525992\t就是說我們必須要讓我們的有盟國家國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平穩定維護現狀這一邊但應該不會因為東島就導致於說這個國際社會認為是中共得利吧我比較在意這個因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望但是如果因為有人我們中華民國的包含是總統或是立委\n538797\t542420\t委員的決定我尊重委員的決定我尊重有關於總統的部分或是整體政府的部分我們必須要去抓緊因為他只是一個涉外人士而已他講錯那也很正常我們也不知道他是誰\n566016\t589867\t所以針對類似這樣子的說法我會建議外交部要清楚的予以駁斥否則的話到時候誰去有一天或許我想您也去啊結果您變成中共同路人這也不好吧所以應該是我們的主權我們的人去不管我說了總統去或不去我都尊重因為那是他有可能他整體來說他的情資也不見得一樣的考量\n590427\t591047\t接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情\n613544\t638299\t一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定\n639400\t642162\t我有問過民主基金會那執行長也在這邊我就請執行長來說\n665938\t689888\t說一下到底是誰決定的好不好我已經不想知道這個事情你們覺得誰對誰錯誰去改了這個誰去改了這個這個裡面的席次的您嗎跟委員報告我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次五席四席一席四席四席一席這個比例的更動不需要開董事會領事董事會你想改就改\n690528\t698273\t組織章程裡面規定我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數然後各政黨的席次請問現在已經是新的國會了按照目前的政黨比例行次我們的比例應該怎麼分配我們是依照52 51 8席來計算計算出來國民黨4席民進黨4席民眾黨1席\n718385\t732940\t那所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算就是這樣的計算方法那中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣組織章程裡面規定立院有改選你們不是之前有改過改成五席四席一席嗎有沒有這件事\n733721\t745652\t在網站上面的時候剛剛部長也有講我們網站也有說明3月6號的時候我們是公文來了以後我們就會上網去更新不是嗎你3月6號的時候上面國民黨是幾個民進黨是幾個民眾黨是幾個嗎\n748772\t769989\t那個是在更新過程中間我們在網站上面有說明很清楚我問你是幾個你跟我一直講網站更新不好意思主席因為他沒有回答清楚給我再多一分鐘的時間請他把這個事情講清楚好不好就是你3月6號所謂的改的時候你是不是把席次的部分民進黨就用你上面填了五個人然後呢國民黨填了四個人民眾黨是一個人有沒有這件事情嗎\n771063\t797965\t當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改但你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣阿你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西我們依照公文來辦事情阿公文寄到了我們就會依照章程來進行更新所以說那後來為什麼又要改掉3月13號中間發生什麼事6號到13號之間13號是因為民進黨的公文到了所以我們上網去更新阿\n798405\t818478\t所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會\n822261\t824363\t所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改\n843406\t850769\t6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新\n863095\t873929\t可是你中間你還把羅志正跟魏白骨對調啦那你不是中間說都沒有收到公文我們的網站沒有對調你的另外一張表上面是對調的那你是收到什麼公文去改的那張紙啊\n874824\t877325\t主席因為我時間不夠的關係我最後再問一下這個我們什麼時候要進行改選謝謝這個\n900138\t918417\t有關於改選的部分其實是要先補選因為董事長那個上一任的董事長那個游錫堃辭職了所以我們現在正在跟那個時間的關係可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明我們現在正在討論看什麼時候因為你們現在很久了所以是3月底還是4月初做完什麼時候會進行補選\n920239\t938831\t我們必須要去看未來的董事長就是院長他能夠提供什麼事件給我現在目前在跟院長溝通時間那因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例但是您會按照民進黨立委說吧還是您們會按照原本的慣例還是由董事長由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃\n939531\t939551\t謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請吳部長請部長\n我看到今天您的業務報告裡面是沒有提到大家都很關心的這個太平島的那但是今天很多的委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問那首先想要問您作為外交部長認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任\n這是整個政府的責任,我想跟人民是有這種共識的。是的,那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分?這個是兩回事,就是太平島是我們的主權,去不去這個不會改變太平島的領土主權的地位。\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n吳釗燮報告業務\n能不能更讓國際社會理解到太平島第一個它的本質第二個它的主權屬於中華民國不管外面的人怎麼講但它實質的主權屬於中華民國在這方面有沒有宣示性效果\n所以總統去不去你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差對國際社會也沒有差\n這個很重要,您講的沒有錯\n總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法\n那您多次的談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張包含中共他們可能相關的一些這個撲牌等等的你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎因為南海情勢緊張所以不前往\n請問一下南海這個部分的緊張那從您的角度來說大概從什麼時候到什麼時候什麼時候開始變緊張的\n我想從中國在2014年2015年那時候在南海建立島礁那時候開始也就是南海軍事化的這個活動開始他的緊張的程度就不斷的提升\n那這一段期間中國在南海這邊的這個巡邏採取了很多這種挑釁危險的這些作為為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張就沒辦法登島了但是您剛談到的2016年嘛2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候\n那實際上面也是您剛剛所說的比較緊張的這個範疇裡面但是他去登島之後一沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息我們是去發表了和平的倡議二也成功了宣誓的主權所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法似乎沒有這麼搭嘎那所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了那未來所以不是緊張的關係是其他的理由\n徐巧芯\n請問一下部長就您的了解美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島他們的態度是什麼\n是有態度還是沒態度是有認為不妥還是認為尊重我們的決定我沒有去問他們也沒有來告訴我所以這一題我沒有辦法回答那這個美國的副總統賀錦麗他在2022年11月的時候在距離太平島300多公里的地方\n面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉旺菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的但他們對他們的友邦他們有提出了相關的重大演說那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了\n跟委員報告一下在2016年的7月19號那時候在國安會有一個國安會因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長所以我記得非常的清楚那時候我們就做了非常重大的這個宣布就是我們南海的政策是什麼\n我不會去做這個解讀\n我們不會去做指責但我們也不擔心有人會這麼說是嗎?我想那個最近是有那個媒體在說明就是說似乎蔡總統是有受到美方的這個壓力我在這邊必須要很清楚的說明就是沒有這個壓力美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題\n好那但是新聞也有出現說社外人士不具名的我想部長我們也都不知道是誰他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利我對這句話我是打了很大的問號不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們的主權的島上是讓中共得利我想問一下部長對於媒體上面所報載社外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情您認同嗎您的看法是什麼\n因為我不知道是誰也不曉得說他的那個思考的邏輯是什麼但是以我的這個角度來看的話就是說現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高是這我們剛剛理解了那以我們的那個整個大的戰略來講就好像我剛剛回答那個陳委員的這個說明的時候我們的大的戰略應該是爭取到更多的當然但我們剛剛問的是說中共會因為這樣子\n我來做說明\n就是說委員要去尤其是我們的召委要帶去的話那這個是我們的委員會的這個考量那我們都尊重我們不會反對那但是有關於那個在南海地區我們台灣要扮演的這個角色那倒是有話講\n就是說我們必須要讓我們的有盟國家國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平穩定維護現狀這一邊但應該不會因為東島就導致於說這個國際社會認為是中共得利吧我比較在意這個因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望但是如果因為有人我們中華民國的包含是總統或是立委\n委員的決定我尊重委員的決定我尊重有關於總統的部分或是整體政府的部分我們必須要去抓緊因為他只是一個涉外人士而已他講錯那也很正常我們也不知道他是誰\n所以針對類似這樣子的說法我會建議外交部要清楚的予以駁斥否則的話到時候誰去有一天或許我想您也去啊結果您變成中共同路人這也不好吧所以應該是我們的主權我們的人去不管我說了總統去或不去我都尊重因為那是他有可能他整體來說他的情資也不見得一樣的考量\n接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情\n一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定\n我有問過民主基金會那執行長也在這邊我就請執行長來說\n說一下到底是誰決定的好不好我已經不想知道這個事情你們覺得誰對誰錯誰去改了這個誰去改了這個這個裡面的席次的您嗎跟委員報告我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次五席四席一席四席四席一席這個比例的更動不需要開董事會領事董事會你想改就改\n組織章程裡面規定我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數然後各政黨的席次請問現在已經是新的國會了按照目前的政黨比例行次我們的比例應該怎麼分配我們是依照52 51 8席來計算計算出來國民黨4席民進黨4席民眾黨1席\n那所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算就是這樣的計算方法那中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣組織章程裡面規定立院有改選你們不是之前有改過改成五席四席一席嗎有沒有這件事\n在網站上面的時候剛剛部長也有講我們網站也有說明3月6號的時候我們是公文來了以後我們就會上網去更新不是嗎你3月6號的時候上面國民黨是幾個民進黨是幾個民眾黨是幾個嗎\n那個是在更新過程中間我們在網站上面有說明很清楚我問你是幾個你跟我一直講網站更新不好意思主席因為他沒有回答清楚給我再多一分鐘的時間請他把這個事情講清楚好不好就是你3月6號所謂的改的時候你是不是把席次的部分民進黨就用你上面填了五個人然後呢國民黨填了四個人民眾黨是一個人有沒有這件事情嗎\n當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改但你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣阿你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西我們依照公文來辦事情阿公文寄到了我們就會依照章程來進行更新所以說那後來為什麼又要改掉3月13號中間發生什麼事6號到13號之間13號是因為民進黨的公文到了所以我們上網去更新阿\n所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會\n所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改\n6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新\n可是你中間你還把羅志正跟魏白骨對調啦那你不是中間說都沒有收到公文我們的網站沒有對調你的另外一張表上面是對調的那你是收到什麼公文去改的那張紙啊\n主席因為我時間不夠的關係我最後再問一下這個我們什麼時候要進行改選謝謝這個\n有關於改選的部分其實是要先補選因為董事長那個上一任的董事長那個游錫堃辭職了所以我們現在正在跟那個時間的關係可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明我們現在正在討論看什麼時候因為你們現在很久了所以是3月底還是4月初做完什麼時候會進行補選\n我們必須要去看未來的董事長就是院長他能夠提供什麼事件給我現在目前在跟院長溝通時間那因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例但是您會按照民進黨立委說吧還是您們會按照原本的慣例還是由董事長由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃\n謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.471 --> 00:01.234\n謝謝主席我想請吳部長請部長\n\n00:11.931 --> 00:31.201\n我看到今天您的業務報告裡面是沒有提到大家都很關心的這個太平島的那但是今天很多的委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問那首先想要問您作為外交部長認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任\n\n00:32.309 --> 00:48.883\n這是整個政府的責任,我想跟人民是有這種共識的。是的,那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分?這個是兩回事,就是太平島是我們的主權,去不去這個不會改變太平島的領土主權的地位。\n\n00:51.325 --> 00:51.805\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n01:08.852 --> 01:08.872\n吳釗燮報告業務\n\n01:32.520 --> 01:45.812\n能不能更讓國際社會理解到太平島第一個它的本質第二個它的主權屬於中華民國不管外面的人怎麼講但它實質的主權屬於中華民國在這方面有沒有宣示性效果\n\n01:46.597 --> 01:47.658\n所以總統去不去你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差對國際社會也沒有差\n\n02:03.812 --> 02:04.293\n這個很重要,您講的沒有錯\n\n02:24.376 --> 02:40.337\n總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法\n\n02:40.717 --> 02:56.190\n那您多次的談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張包含中共他們可能相關的一些這個撲牌等等的你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎因為南海情勢緊張所以不前往\n\n02:57.090 --> 03:01.013\n請問一下南海這個部分的緊張那從您的角度來說大概從什麼時候到什麼時候什麼時候開始變緊張的\n\n03:24.202 --> 03:38.060\n我想從中國在2014年2015年那時候在南海建立島礁那時候開始也就是南海軍事化的這個活動開始他的緊張的程度就不斷的提升\n\n03:38.601 --> 03:50.432\n那這一段期間中國在南海這邊的這個巡邏採取了很多這種挑釁危險的這些作為為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張就沒辦法登島了但是您剛談到的2016年嘛2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候\n\n03:55.436 --> 04:19.873\n那實際上面也是您剛剛所說的比較緊張的這個範疇裡面但是他去登島之後一沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息我們是去發表了和平的倡議二也成功了宣誓的主權所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法似乎沒有這麼搭嘎那所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了那未來所以不是緊張的關係是其他的理由\n\n04:20.673 --> 04:20.834\n徐巧芯\n\n04:35.410 --> 04:36.611\n請問一下部長就您的了解美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島他們的態度是什麼\n\n05:03.914 --> 05:15.941\n是有態度還是沒態度是有認為不妥還是認為尊重我們的決定我沒有去問他們也沒有來告訴我所以這一題我沒有辦法回答那這個美國的副總統賀錦麗他在2022年11月的時候在距離太平島300多公里的地方\n\n05:24.406 --> 05:46.687\n面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉旺菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的但他們對他們的友邦他們有提出了相關的重大演說那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了\n\n05:48.227 --> 06:05.796\n跟委員報告一下在2016年的7月19號那時候在國安會有一個國安會因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長所以我記得非常的清楚那時候我們就做了非常重大的這個宣布就是我們南海的政策是什麼\n\n06:06.636 --> 06:07.036\n我不會去做這個解讀\n\n06:34.958 --> 06:52.458\n我們不會去做指責但我們也不擔心有人會這麼說是嗎?我想那個最近是有那個媒體在說明就是說似乎蔡總統是有受到美方的這個壓力我在這邊必須要很清楚的說明就是沒有這個壓力美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題\n\n06:53.499 --> 07:22.069\n好那但是新聞也有出現說社外人士不具名的我想部長我們也都不知道是誰他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利我對這句話我是打了很大的問號不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們的主權的島上是讓中共得利我想問一下部長對於媒體上面所報載社外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情您認同嗎您的看法是什麼\n\n07:23.230 --> 07:46.825\n因為我不知道是誰也不曉得說他的那個思考的邏輯是什麼但是以我的這個角度來看的話就是說現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高是這我們剛剛理解了那以我們的那個整個大的戰略來講就好像我剛剛回答那個陳委員的這個說明的時候我們的大的戰略應該是爭取到更多的當然但我們剛剛問的是說中共會因為這樣子\n\n07:50.367 --> 07:50.467\n我來做說明\n\n08:17.952 --> 08:34.106\n就是說委員要去尤其是我們的召委要帶去的話那這個是我們的委員會的這個考量那我們都尊重我們不會反對那但是有關於那個在南海地區我們台灣要扮演的這個角色那倒是有話講\n\n08:34.727 --> 08:45.992\n就是說我們必須要讓我們的有盟國家國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平穩定維護現狀這一邊但應該不會因為東島就導致於說這個國際社會認為是中共得利吧我比較在意這個因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望但是如果因為有人我們中華民國的包含是總統或是立委\n\n08:58.797 --> 09:02.420\n委員的決定我尊重委員的決定我尊重有關於總統的部分或是整體政府的部分我們必須要去抓緊因為他只是一個涉外人士而已他講錯那也很正常我們也不知道他是誰\n\n09:26.016 --> 09:49.867\n所以針對類似這樣子的說法我會建議外交部要清楚的予以駁斥否則的話到時候誰去有一天或許我想您也去啊結果您變成中共同路人這也不好吧所以應該是我們的主權我們的人去不管我說了總統去或不去我都尊重因為那是他有可能他整體來說他的情資也不見得一樣的考量\n\n09:50.427 --> 09:51.047\n接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情\n\n10:13.544 --> 10:38.299\n一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定\n\n10:39.400 --> 10:42.162\n我有問過民主基金會那執行長也在這邊我就請執行長來說\n\n11:05.938 --> 11:29.888\n說一下到底是誰決定的好不好我已經不想知道這個事情你們覺得誰對誰錯誰去改了這個誰去改了這個這個裡面的席次的您嗎跟委員報告我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次五席四席一席四席四席一席這個比例的更動不需要開董事會領事董事會你想改就改\n\n11:30.528 --> 11:38.273\n組織章程裡面規定我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數然後各政黨的席次請問現在已經是新的國會了按照目前的政黨比例行次我們的比例應該怎麼分配我們是依照52518席來計算計算出來國民黨4席民進黨4席民眾黨1席\n\n11:58.385 --> 12:12.940\n那所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算就是這樣的計算方法那中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣組織章程裡面規定立院有改選你們不是之前有改過改成五席四席一席嗎有沒有這件事\n\n12:13.721 --> 12:25.652\n在網站上面的時候剛剛部長也有講我們網站也有說明3月6號的時候我們是公文來了以後我們就會上網去更新不是嗎你3月6號的時候上面國民黨是幾個民進黨是幾個民眾黨是幾個嗎\n\n12:28.772 --> 12:49.989\n那個是在更新過程中間我們在網站上面有說明很清楚我問你是幾個你跟我一直講網站更新不好意思主席因為他沒有回答清楚給我再多一分鐘的時間請他把這個事情講清楚好不好就是你3月6號所謂的改的時候你是不是把席次的部分民進黨就用你上面填了五個人然後呢國民黨填了四個人民眾黨是一個人有沒有這件事情嗎\n\n12:51.063 --> 13:17.965\n當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改但你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣阿你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西我們依照公文來辦事情阿公文寄到了我們就會依照章程來進行更新所以說那後來為什麼又要改掉3月13號中間發生什麼事6號到13號之間13號是因為民進黨的公文到了所以我們上網去更新阿\n\n13:18.405 --> 13:38.478\n所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會\n\n13:42.261 --> 13:44.363\n所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改\n\n14:03.406 --> 14:10.769\n6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新\n\n14:23.095 --> 14:33.929\n可是你中間你還把羅志正跟魏白骨對調啦那你不是中間說都沒有收到公文我們的網站沒有對調你的另外一張表上面是對調的那你是收到什麼公文去改的那張紙啊\n\n14:34.824 --> 14:37.325\n主席因為我時間不夠的關係我最後再問一下這個我們什麼時候要進行改選謝謝這個\n\n15:00.138 --> 15:18.417\n有關於改選的部分其實是要先補選因為董事長那個上一任的董事長那個游錫堃辭職了所以我們現在正在跟那個時間的關係可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明我們現在正在討論看什麼時候因為你們現在很久了所以是3月底還是4月初做完什麼時候會進行補選\n\n15:20.239 --> 15:38.831\n我們必須要去看未來的董事長就是院長他能夠提供什麼事件給我現在目前在跟院長溝通時間那因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例但是您會按照民進黨立委說吧還是您們會按照原本的慣例還是由董事長由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃\n\n15:39.531 --> 15:39.551\n謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.471,"end":1.234,"text":"謝謝主席我想請吳部長請部長"},{"start":11.931,"end":31.201,"text":"我看到今天您的業務報告裡面是沒有提到大家都很關心的這個太平島的那但是今天很多的委員也針對太平島的部分提出一些詢問那首先想要問您作為外交部長認不認為維護領土主權是國家元首的重要責任"},{"start":32.309,"end":48.883,"text":"這是整個政府的責任,我想跟人民是有這種共識的。是的,那國家元首登島對於維護領土主權有沒有加分?這個是兩回事,就是太平島是我們的主權,去不去這個不會改變太平島的領土主權的地位。"},{"start":51.325,"end":51.805,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":68.852,"end":68.872,"text":"吳釗燮報告業務"},{"start":92.52,"end":105.812,"text":"能不能更讓國際社會理解到太平島第一個它的本質第二個它的主權屬於中華民國不管外面的人怎麼講但它實質的主權屬於中華民國在這方面有沒有宣示性效果"},{"start":106.597,"end":107.658,"text":"所以總統去不去你覺得對中華民國完全沒有差對國際社會也沒有差"},{"start":123.812,"end":124.293,"text":"這個很重要,您講的沒有錯"},{"start":144.376,"end":160.337,"text":"總統去或不去坦白說我們都尊重這是他自己的選擇跟自己的權利但是我們覺得想去或是不想去的理由應該要跟外界社會做說明跟溝通剛才有很多其他的委員都有問您的看法"},{"start":160.717,"end":176.19,"text":"那您多次的談到因為南海目前的情勢緊張包含中共他們可能相關的一些這個撲牌等等的你覺得這是總統如果沒有去的話的主要原因嗎因為南海情勢緊張所以不前往"},{"start":177.09,"end":181.013,"text":"請問一下南海這個部分的緊張那從您的角度來說大概從什麼時候到什麼時候什麼時候開始變緊張的"},{"start":204.202,"end":218.06,"text":"我想從中國在2014年2015年那時候在南海建立島礁那時候開始也就是南海軍事化的這個活動開始他的緊張的程度就不斷的提升"},{"start":218.601,"end":230.432,"text":"那這一段期間中國在南海這邊的這個巡邏採取了很多這種挑釁危險的這些作為為什麼我們覺得南海情勢緊張就沒辦法登島了但是您剛談到的2016年嘛2016年馬英九前總統去視察太平島的時候"},{"start":235.436,"end":259.873,"text":"那實際上面也是您剛剛所說的比較緊張的這個範疇裡面但是他去登島之後一沒有給國際社會傳出錯誤的訊息我們是去發表了和平的倡議二也成功了宣誓的主權所以跟您剛剛講的一些說法似乎沒有這麼搭嘎那所以緊張的地方如果總統就不去了那未來所以不是緊張的關係是其他的理由"},{"start":260.673,"end":260.834,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":275.41,"end":276.611,"text":"請問一下部長就您的了解美國方面對於蔡總統如果登島他們的態度是什麼"},{"start":303.914,"end":315.941,"text":"是有態度還是沒態度是有認為不妥還是認為尊重我們的決定我沒有去問他們也沒有來告訴我所以這一題我沒有辦法回答那這個美國的副總統賀錦麗他在2022年11月的時候在距離太平島300多公里的地方"},{"start":324.406,"end":346.687,"text":"面對大陸跟菲律賓爭議海域的巴拉旺菲律賓海巡艦上發表演講也闡述了美國對菲律賓主張的支持當時南海的氛圍也是相當緊張的但他們對他們的友邦他們有提出了相關的重大演說那為什麼我們會碰到南海情勢緊張就沒有辦法前往了"},{"start":348.227,"end":365.796,"text":"跟委員報告一下在2016年的7月19號那時候在國安會有一個國安會因為我那時候是當國安會的秘書長所以我記得非常的清楚那時候我們就做了非常重大的這個宣布就是我們南海的政策是什麼"},{"start":366.636,"end":367.036,"text":"我不會去做這個解讀"},{"start":394.958,"end":412.458,"text":"我們不會去做指責但我們也不擔心有人會這麼說是嗎?我想那個最近是有那個媒體在說明就是說似乎蔡總統是有受到美方的這個壓力我在這邊必須要很清楚的說明就是沒有這個壓力美國人沒有跟我們談到這個議題"},{"start":413.499,"end":442.069,"text":"好那但是新聞也有出現說社外人士不具名的我想部長我們也都不知道是誰他說總統登太平島會讓中共得利我對這句話我是打了很大的問號不太清楚為什麼我們的總統去我們的主權的島上是讓中共得利我想問一下部長對於媒體上面所報載社外人士說總統登島會讓中共得利這件事情您認同嗎您的看法是什麼"},{"start":443.23,"end":466.825,"text":"因為我不知道是誰也不曉得說他的那個思考的邏輯是什麼但是以我的這個角度來看的話就是說現在在南海這個地區緊張情勢是越來越升高是這我們剛剛理解了那以我們的那個整個大的戰略來講就好像我剛剛回答那個陳委員的這個說明的時候我們的大的戰略應該是爭取到更多的當然但我們剛剛問的是說中共會因為這樣子"},{"start":470.367,"end":470.467,"text":"我來做說明"},{"start":497.952,"end":514.106,"text":"就是說委員要去尤其是我們的召委要帶去的話那這個是我們的委員會的這個考量那我們都尊重我們不會反對那但是有關於那個在南海地區我們台灣要扮演的這個角色那倒是有話講"},{"start":514.727,"end":525.992,"text":"就是說我們必須要讓我們的有盟國家國際社會看到我們的政策立場是站在和平穩定維護現狀這一邊但應該不會因為東島就導致於說這個國際社會認為是中共得利吧我比較在意這個因為維持和平穩定是我們一直都希望但是如果因為有人我們中華民國的包含是總統或是立委"},{"start":538.797,"end":542.42,"text":"委員的決定我尊重委員的決定我尊重有關於總統的部分或是整體政府的部分我們必須要去抓緊因為他只是一個涉外人士而已他講錯那也很正常我們也不知道他是誰"},{"start":566.016,"end":589.867,"text":"所以針對類似這樣子的說法我會建議外交部要清楚的予以駁斥否則的話到時候誰去有一天或許我想您也去啊結果您變成中共同路人這也不好吧所以應該是我們的主權我們的人去不管我說了總統去或不去我都尊重因為那是他有可能他整體來說他的情資也不見得一樣的考量"},{"start":590.427,"end":591.047,"text":"接下來想要問一下跟民主基金會有關的事情"},{"start":613.544,"end":638.299,"text":"一個獨立運作的基金會要改董監事的席次或是名單是不是應該要開董事會或是臨時董事會來決定這個我問過了有關於那個政黨的這個董事名單民主基金會這邊是接到通知他們就馬上改所以有時間差連席次的部分都改這件事情是誰做的決定"},{"start":639.4,"end":642.162,"text":"我有問過民主基金會那執行長也在這邊我就請執行長來說"},{"start":665.938,"end":689.888,"text":"說一下到底是誰決定的好不好我已經不想知道這個事情你們覺得誰對誰錯誰去改了這個誰去改了這個這個裡面的席次的您嗎跟委員報告我們都是依照組織章程裡面的規定所以組織章程可以隨意的去更改席次五席四席一席四席四席一席這個比例的更動不需要開董事會領事董事會你想改就改"},{"start":690.528,"end":698.273,"text":"組織章程裡面規定我們是依照國會各政黨的席次作為母數然後各政黨的席次請問現在已經是新的國會了按照目前的政黨比例行次我們的比例應該怎麼分配我們是依照52 51 8席來計算計算出來國民黨4席民進黨4席民眾黨1席"},{"start":718.385,"end":732.94,"text":"那所以現在上面的席次是怎麼算就是這樣的計算方法那中間過程改的時候是改成怎麼樣組織章程裡面規定立院有改選你們不是之前有改過改成五席四席一席嗎有沒有這件事"},{"start":733.721,"end":745.652,"text":"在網站上面的時候剛剛部長也有講我們網站也有說明3月6號的時候我們是公文來了以後我們就會上網去更新不是嗎你3月6號的時候上面國民黨是幾個民進黨是幾個民眾黨是幾個嗎"},{"start":748.772,"end":769.989,"text":"那個是在更新過程中間我們在網站上面有說明很清楚我問你是幾個你跟我一直講網站更新不好意思主席因為他沒有回答清楚給我再多一分鐘的時間請他把這個事情講清楚好不好就是你3月6號所謂的改的時候你是不是把席次的部分民進黨就用你上面填了五個人然後呢國民黨填了四個人民眾黨是一個人有沒有這件事情嗎"},{"start":771.063,"end":797.965,"text":"當初是因為民進黨的公文還沒有到所以民進黨的名單還沒有更改但你也已經知道新的國會的席次是這樣阿你們怎麼還會去改網站上的東西我們依照公文來辦事情阿公文寄到了我們就會依照章程來進行更新所以說那後來為什麼又要改掉3月13號中間發生什麼事6號到13號之間13號是因為民進黨的公文到了所以我們上網去更新阿"},{"start":798.405,"end":818.478,"text":"所以民進黨的公文到了你才更新但是你們完全不管說現在的國會的席次比例你就按照民進黨給你審問就改什麼國會的席次比例我們在2月6號已經行文各政黨對您剛剛都已經說了按照您現在的比例分配是4比4比1可是你在3月6號的時候網站弄出了一個5比4比1大家爭議的點是這個你們中間沒有開過任何的董事會臨時董事會"},{"start":822.261,"end":824.363,"text":"所以3月6號的時候民進黨提供給你幾個名單3月13號提供的所以那中間6號為什麼會改"},{"start":843.406,"end":850.769,"text":"6號因為中間有民眾黨他的公文先到我們就上網更新然後國民黨的公文到了我們就更新國民黨的部分最後3月13民進黨的公文到以後我們就更新"},{"start":863.095,"end":873.929,"text":"可是你中間你還把羅志正跟魏白骨對調啦那你不是中間說都沒有收到公文我們的網站沒有對調你的另外一張表上面是對調的那你是收到什麼公文去改的那張紙啊"},{"start":874.824,"end":877.325,"text":"主席因為我時間不夠的關係我最後再問一下這個我們什麼時候要進行改選謝謝這個"},{"start":900.138,"end":918.417,"text":"有關於改選的部分其實是要先補選因為董事長那個上一任的董事長那個游錫堃辭職了所以我們現在正在跟那個時間的關係可不可以把時程表稍微跟大家做一個說明我們現在正在討論看什麼時候因為你們現在很久了所以是3月底還是4月初做完什麼時候會進行補選"},{"start":920.239,"end":938.831,"text":"我們必須要去看未來的董事長就是院長他能夠提供什麼事件給我現在目前在跟院長溝通時間那因為有民進黨的立委說未來不一定要依照慣例但是您會按照民進黨立委說吧還是您們會按照原本的慣例還是由董事長由立法院長來出任的這個方向去規劃"},{"start":939.531,"end":939.551,"text":"謝謝部長"}]}}}}