{"id":150106,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150106","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1920661ef82218bccc11a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a695bd5f1704c9299c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"09:52:28 - 10:02:26","影片長度":"00:09:58","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":598,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:02:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T09:52:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":218,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（9時52分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：部長早安。我們知道目前詐騙集團猖獗跟詐騙案件泛濫已經是基層很大的民怨之一，相信最近很多委員都關心這個議題，就是如何打詐、防詐，所以在院會總質詢之後，部長也釋出說要進行電子簽章法的修法，希望從源頭來管制、打詐。我們知道這個電子簽章法已經二十幾年沒有修正了，就是在90年公布實施之後到今天應該是第一次修正，可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點？"],["唐部長鳳：好，謝謝委員。委員所提到的這個部分，其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關技術，每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告，也會即時通知平臺，但是我們觀察到即使平臺收到，也真的都下架了，這個詐騙者因為目前身分認證 KYC的程序並不是很完備，所以他馬上再創一個帳號，又再上同樣的廣告，變成是確實下架率越來越高沒有錯，但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告。當然實際點下去那個網址，因為我們已經跟165合作，所以那個網址其實已經連不到了，但是光是看到這些頭像，大家感受還是很不好，所以主要這次是解決這個問題，就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓，不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告。第二個是說就算同名同姓，如果被抓到他是詐騙等等，那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人下在其他平臺的廣告一起處理。"],["陳委員素月：是。其實本席平常在看臉書的時候，也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站，包括張忠謀、吳淡如，還有陳文茜、曹興誠等等，我們在看的時候，我覺得已經是不勝枚舉，所以真的是非常的泛濫。之後如果電子簽章法修正案通過之後，像圖卡上面類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：是的。這個也搭配我們數位產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出，接下來會由數位產業署擔任線上網路廣告平臺的目的事業主管機關，只要是主管機關，我們就有一些相關的政策工具，再配上電子簽章法修法，我們有信心這個部分的再犯率就會降低。當然如果要再進一步降低，包含境外平臺落地等等，這個我們是跟內政部配合，在內政部的打詐專法來處理。"],["陳委員素月：部長有提到要進行電子簽章法修法，希望從源頭管制來打詐，這樣子的訊息釋出之後，很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論，因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法，未來實施之後的一些問題，就本席所瞭解，未來電子簽章法也是要透過申請核發的，未來可以核發電子簽章的，目前我們是有規劃有幾家？"],["唐部長鳳：首先如果是使用行動自然人憑證或自然人憑證或工商憑證，這個不是民間的公司核發的，這個是我們自己政府。我們一開始跟大的平臺討論，會包含這個態樣在內，所以並不會一定要找民間公司來核發。目前簽章達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的就是我們的臺灣網路認證、身分認證的公司──TWCA以及中華電，目前大概有這兩家。"],["陳委員素月：另外就是很多民眾也在關心的，很多年輕人喜歡買音樂會的票，透過網路購票，可是通常主辦單位一開始開賣，馬上票就賣光了，事實上在其他平臺就看到很多黃牛票在賣，未來我們這個電子簽章法修正之後，很多年輕人關心在遏止黃牛票上會不會有效果。"],["唐部長鳳：其實我們跟文化部之前有討論這部分的應用方式，以我所知，目前也有一些售票平臺有做所謂的身分驗證或是實名認證，但是我相信電子簽章法通過之後會提高這個強度，而且提高非常多。"],["陳委員素月：是，可以提高。所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票？"],["唐部長鳳：這應該是兩件事，第一個是說如果它是有實名認證，而且需要用數位簽章，那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛代別人購票的成本，因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以代他購票，但現在他必須要有這個人的自然人憑證或行動自然人憑證，這個成本就非常非常高，所以這部分應該可以有效地來緩解。但是如果這個平臺本身本來就沒有做類似這樣的實名認證，當然電子簽章法就算通過，我們也不能逼著這些平臺去做。"],["陳委員素月：我瞭解了，因為很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物，所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到而會去詢問，想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們在觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有一些幫助。"],["唐部長鳳：這很棒，我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事。"],["陳委員素月：好。另外還有幾個問題，包括民眾如果把他的電子簽章在無意中被供作詐騙使用，之後是會被管制還是會有受到什麼樣的處分？"],["唐部長鳳：因為等於跟印鑑章、本人親簽等等是一樣的效力，所以無意中簽名，然後蓋了印鑑章，這個就不確定是要怎麼無意中做這件事情。"],["陳委員素月：所以這個會涉及到民法的問題。"],["唐部長鳳：這個就是類似你簽了一個合約、簽了一個契約一樣，它是有法律效力的。當然如果他的數位簽章真的失竊還是怎麼樣，因為我們推定並不是他不能舉證來反駁，但在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個聲稱自己被冒用的人身上。"],["陳委員素月：我想我列了幾個問題，因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了。"],["唐部長鳳：對，3有回答過了，4也回答過了。"],["陳委員素月：部長希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過，可是我覺得我們也不能完全寄望在這個法案通過之後，讓民眾期待非常高，我們應該是真的要有那個功效，怎樣去落實，這個很重要。"],["唐部長鳳：對，特別是境外還沒有落地的平臺，電子簽章法本身並沒有要求這些廣告平臺一定得落地，像TikTok，這部分可能就要在內政部目前研擬中的打詐專法裡面，我們會來幫忙處理。"],["陳委員素月：好，其實除了詐騙之外，還有假訊息的處理也是很多民眾關注的，我們都知道抖音對國家資通安全的危害非常的大，我們也看到最近美國眾議院通過了TikTok禁令的法案，臺灣沒有辦法禁，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：首先跟委員報告，即使它沒有在臺灣落地，但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法，好比中小學的校園等等，對這些危害產品都已經做了限制。即使還沒有落地，有些措施我們可以先做，這是第一點。第二點是剛剛提到內政部研擬中的打詐專法裡面有一個專門的規定，就是這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平臺未來必須要落地，這是第二點。第三點就是我們在內容跟載具、資安等部分定義了危害產品，這個定義是放在資通安全法，而資通安全法目前已經在行政院進行審議。"],["陳委員素月：我們知道春節前TikTok新加坡總部有一個負責的主管率團來臺訪問，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：對，是我們約他來談。"],["陳委員素月：部長是不是可以就這部分簡單說明一下？我們在這次的會談後，未來會有什麼樣的作為來有效處理假訊息？"],["唐部長鳳：一方面當然要讓大家──不只是 TikTok，也包含Google、LINE、Facebook等等都瞭解到，我們接下來就會是網路廣告平臺的主管機關，這是第一點。第二點，在這個機關的權責底下有很多像剛剛提到的兒少法，或者是其他線上明顯危害的通知、取下等等義務。這些義務不能因為它沒有落地就不遵循，這是第二點。第三點，當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論，境外敵對勢力實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分。這部分昨天在立院也有委員垂詢，這部分的期程就會跟電子簽章法的期程可能不太一樣，資安法會在院裡繼續審議。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝部長。因為我們知道防詐、打詐，包括假訊息的遏止，需要各部會一起來努力，不過相信數位部是一個非常重要的單位。"],["唐部長鳳：不要再讓人能夠那麼容易冒充名人或冒充幾千個人。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝。"],["主席：陳委員發言完畢。","現在請何欣純委員發言。何欣純委員發言完畢之後，我們進行臨時提案的處理。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150106","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150106","tool":"pyannote","id":"150106-pyannote"},"job_id":"z24MA0JvrDZXUted","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:16:33","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 00:18:34","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150106 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-02 00:18:34","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：陳素月'"},{"time":"2024-06-02 00:18:55","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-02 00:18:55","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 5.233, \"end\": 7.238, \"text\": \"謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 5.233, \"end\": 5.413, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 5.413, \"end\": 6.055, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 6.055, \"end\": 6.175, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 6.175, \"end\": 6.356, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"邀\", 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\"．\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,233 --> 00:00:07,238\n謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。\n\n2\n00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:36,474\n午安部長。我們知道目前有關詐騙集團的猖獗跟詐騙案件的一個氾濫已經是基層民怨的很大的民怨之一。所以在上次總質詢相信最近很多委員都是關心這個議題就是如何打詐防詐。所以在\n\n3\n00:00:37,715 --> 00:01:01,723\n這個院會總諮詢之後那部長也釋出說就是要來進行這個電子簽章法的一個修法希望從源頭來管制來打詐嘛所以目前我們知道這個電子簽章法已經20幾年沒有修正了嘛就是在90年公佈實施之後到今天應該是第一次來修正那可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點\n\n4\n00:01:02,683 --> 00:01:17,452\n好,謝謝委員委員所提到的這個部分其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關的技術每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告那也會及時通知平台但是我們觀察到說即使平台收到了真的就都下架\n\n5\n00:01:18,793 --> 00:01:47,191\n這個詐騙者他因為目前的這個身份認證KYC的程序並不是很完備所以他馬上再創一個帳號又再上同樣的廣告變成是說確實下架率越來越高沒有錯但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告那當然實際點下去那個網址常常我們就已經跟165合作那個網址其實已經連不到了但是光是看到這些頭像大家感受還是很不好所以主要這次是解決這個問題就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓\n\n6\n00:01:47,972 --> 00:02:01,754\n那不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告那第二個是說就算同名同姓如果他被抓到說他是就是詐騙等等那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人他下載其他的平台的廣告也就一起來處理\n\n7\n00:02:02,867 --> 00:02:20,629\n是,其實像本席平常在看臉書的時候也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站包括張忠謀、吳淡如還有陳文倩、曹新誠等等其實這個我們在看的時候我覺得已經是不勝美舉\n\n8\n00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:35,780\n所以真的是非常的氾濫所以就是說之後如果說電子簽章法我們修正案通過之後好像我目前就是圖卡上面這一類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎\n\n9\n00:02:36,420 --> 00:03:01,580\n是的,這個也搭配我們數月產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出由數月產業署接下來會擔任我們的線上廣告平台網路廣告平台的目的事業主管機關那只要是主管機關我們就有一些相關的政策工具那再配上電子簽章法的修法我們有信心這個部分它的再販率就會降低當然如果要再進一步降低包含境外平台落地等等這個我們是跟內政部配合在內政部的打詐的專法來處理\n\n10\n00:03:03,163 --> 00:03:31,868\n是,那就是部長有提到就是說要進行這個電子簽章法希望就是來從源頭管制來打詐嘛所以這樣子的訊息釋出之後當然也很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法那未來實施之後的一些問題所以包括說未來這個電子簽章法就本席所了解也是要透過申請核發的嘛那目前我們\n\n11\n00:03:32,748 --> 00:03:59,279\n我就是說可以來合法電子簽章的我目前是有規劃有幾家首先我們如果是使用行動自然憑證或自然憑證或工商憑證這個不是民間的公司來合法的這個是我們自己政府那我們一開始跟大的平台討論會包含這個太陽在內所以並不會說一定要找民間公司來合法當然目前的簽證是達到簽章是達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的\n\n12\n00:04:52,757 --> 00:04:59,019\n是可以提高,所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票。\n\n13\n00:04:59,936 --> 00:05:27,145\n應該是這是兩件事啦就是說第一個是說如果他是有實名認證而且需要用數位簽章那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛帶別人購票的成本因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以帶他購票但現在呢他必須要有這個人的自然憑證或行動自然憑證這個就成本非常非常高所以這部分應該可以有效的來緩解那當然如果這個平台本身本來就沒有做類似這樣實名認證的話那當然電子簽章法就算通過我們不能逼著這些平台去做這樣\n\n14\n00:05:28,326 --> 00:05:49,582\n我瞭解了那因為事實上很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物啦所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到這個他們就是會去詢問想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們就是在這個觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有些幫助我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事\n\n15\n00:05:51,783 --> 00:06:05,774\n另外就是說還有幾個問題是包括說這個民眾如果說把他的電子簽章無意中被工作詐騙使用之後那之後他這個會被管制還是說會有受到什麼樣的處分\n\n16\n00:06:23,783 --> 00:06:42,368\n這是就像你簽了一個合約一樣簽了一個契約一樣他是有法律效力的那但是當然就是說如果他的數位簽章他真的失竊還是怎麼樣那也許因為我們推定並不是說他不能舉證來反駁嗎那在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個被報呃聲稱自己被冒用的人身上\n\n17\n00:06:45,045 --> 00:07:10,798\n我想我列幾個問題那因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了三有回答過了四有回答過了當然我們也是部長這樣子就是說希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過可是我覺得說這我們也不能說完全就是寄望在這個法案通過之後讓民眾好像就期待非常的高我們應該就是真的要有那個功效怎樣去落實這個很重要\n\n18\n00:07:33,491 --> 00:07:47,767\n我們都知道抖音對國家那個自通安全的危害非常的大那我們也看到最近美國眾議院他也有通過了這個TikTok的這個禁令法案那我們台灣沒有辦法禁嘛對不對\n\n19\n00:07:48,288 --> 00:08:02,845\n首先先讓你們報告就是即使它沒有在台灣落地但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法好比方說中小學的校園等等這個部分都已經做了限制這些危害產品所以即使是還沒有落地有些措施我們可以先做這第一點\n\n20\n00:08:03,405 --> 00:08:26,087\n第二點是說剛剛提到的內政部原理中的答詢專法裡面有一個專門的一個規定就是說這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平台未來它就必須要落地了這第二點那第三點就是說我們在內容跟載具跟資安這些部分呢我們定義了這個危害產品這個定義是放在資通安全法那資通安全法目前是已經在行政院進行審議\n\n21\n00:08:28,711 --> 00:08:47,767\n我們知道在春節前Ttalk新加坡總部的一個負責主管有率團來台訪問。對,是我們約他來談。約他來談。是不是可以就這部分請部長簡單一下就是說我們在這一次的會談上未來會有什麼樣的一個作為來對這個假訊息有效的處理。\n\n22\n00:08:54,392 --> 00:09:21,949\n對一方面當然我們是要讓就是大家也不只是TikTok也包含GoogleLine、Facebook等等都了解到我們接下來就會是網路廣告平台的主管機關這第一點那第二點在這個機關的這個權責底下有很多像剛剛提到兒少法或者是其他線上的明顯的危害有些通知取下等等的這些義務那這些義務他不能因為他是沒有落地他就不遵循這個是第二點那第三點當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論\n\n23\n00:09:22,969 --> 00:09:37,794\n進外的這個敵對勢力他實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分那這部分當然昨天在立院也有委員追詢嘛那這部分我想這個期程就會跟資通安全法期程就會跟電子簽章法可能不太一樣資安法我們會在院裡繼續審議\n\n24\n00:09:39,261 --> 00:09:39,281\n陳委員．\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5233\t7238\t謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。\n14240\t36474\t午安部長。我們知道目前有關詐騙集團的猖獗跟詐騙案件的一個氾濫已經是基層民怨的很大的民怨之一。所以在上次總質詢相信最近很多委員都是關心這個議題就是如何打詐防詐。所以在\n37715\t61723\t這個院會總諮詢之後那部長也釋出說就是要來進行這個電子簽章法的一個修法希望從源頭來管制來打詐嘛所以目前我們知道這個電子簽章法已經20幾年沒有修正了嘛就是在90年公佈實施之後到今天應該是第一次來修正那可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點\n62683\t77452\t好,謝謝委員委員所提到的這個部分其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關的技術每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告那也會及時通知平台但是我們觀察到說即使平台收到了真的就都下架\n78793\t107191\t這個詐騙者他因為目前的這個身份認證KYC的程序並不是很完備所以他馬上再創一個帳號又再上同樣的廣告變成是說確實下架率越來越高沒有錯但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告那當然實際點下去那個網址常常我們就已經跟165合作那個網址其實已經連不到了但是光是看到這些頭像大家感受還是很不好所以主要這次是解決這個問題就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓\n107972\t121754\t那不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告那第二個是說就算同名同姓如果他被抓到說他是就是詐騙等等那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人他下載其他的平台的廣告也就一起來處理\n122867\t140629\t是,其實像本席平常在看臉書的時候也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站包括 張忠謀、吳淡如還有陳文倩、曹新誠等等其實這個我們在看的時候我覺得已經是不勝美舉\n141870\t155780\t所以真的是非常的氾濫所以就是說之後如果說電子簽章法我們修正案通過之後好像我目前就是圖卡上面這一類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎\n156420\t181580\t是的,這個也搭配我們數月產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出由數月產業署接下來會擔任我們的線上廣告平台網路廣告平台的目的事業主管機關那只要是主管機關我們就有一些相關的政策工具那再配上電子簽章法的修法我們有信心這個部分它的再販率就會降低當然如果要再進一步降低包含境外平台落地等等這個我們是跟內政部配合在內政部的打詐的專法來處理\n183163\t211868\t是,那就是部長有提到就是說要進行這個電子簽章法希望就是來從源頭管制來打詐嘛所以這樣子的訊息釋出之後當然也很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法那未來實施之後的一些問題所以包括說未來這個電子簽章法就本席所了解也是要透過申請核發的嘛那目前我們\n212748\t239279\t我就是說可以來合法電子簽章的我目前是有規劃有幾家首先我們如果是使用行動自然憑證或自然憑證或工商憑證這個不是民間的公司來合法的這個是我們自己政府那我們一開始跟大的平台討論會包含這個太陽在內所以並不會說一定要找民間公司來合法當然目前的簽證是達到簽章是達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的\n239599\t262637\t﹏﹏﹏\n262637\t292398\t﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n292757\t299019\t是可以提高,所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票。\n299936\t327145\t應該是這是兩件事啦就是說第一個是說如果他是有實名認證而且需要用數位簽章那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛帶別人購票的成本因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以帶他購票但現在呢他必須要有這個人的自然憑證或行動自然憑證這個就成本非常非常高所以這部分應該可以有效的來緩解那當然如果這個平台本身本來就沒有做類似這樣實名認證的話那當然電子簽章法就算通過我們不能逼著這些平台去做這樣\n328326\t349582\t我瞭解了那因為事實上很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物啦所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到這個他們就是會去詢問想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們就是在這個觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有些幫助我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事\n351783\t365774\t另外就是說還有幾個問題是包括說這個民眾如果說把他的電子簽章無意中被工作詐騙使用之後那之後他這個會被管制還是說會有受到什麼樣的處分\n367261\t383763\t﹏﹏\n383783\t402368\t這是就像你簽了一個合約一樣簽了一個契約一樣他是有法律效力的那但是當然就是說如果他的數位簽章他真的失竊還是怎麼樣那也許因為我們推定並不是說他不能舉證來反駁嗎那在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個被報呃聲稱自己被冒用的人身上\n405045\t430798\t我想我列幾個問題那因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了三有回答過了四有回答過了當然我們也是部長這樣子就是說希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過可是我覺得說這我們也不能說完全就是寄望在這個法案通過之後讓民眾好像就期待非常的高我們應該就是真的要有那個功效怎樣去落實這個很重要\n431118\t453251\t�\n453491\t467767\t我們都知道抖音對國家那個自通安全的危害非常的大那我們也看到最近美國眾議院他也有通過了這個TikTok的這個禁令法案那我們台灣沒有辦法禁嘛對不對\n468288\t482845\t首先先讓你們報告就是即使它沒有在台灣落地但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法好比方說中小學的校園等等這個部分都已經做了限制這些危害產品所以即使是還沒有落地有些措施我們可以先做這第一點\n483405\t506087\t第二點是說剛剛提到的內政部原理中的答詢專法裡面有一個專門的一個規定就是說這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平台未來它就必須要落地了這第二點那第三點就是說我們在內容跟載具跟資安這些部分呢我們定義了這個危害產品這個定義是放在資通安全法那資通安全法目前是已經在行政院進行審議\n508711\t527767\t我們知道在春節前Ttalk新加坡總部的一個負責主管有率團來台訪問。對,是我們約他來談。約他來談。是不是可以就這部分請部長簡單一下就是說我們在這一次的會談上未來會有什麼樣的一個作為來對這個假訊息有效的處理。\n534392\t561949\t對一方面當然我們是要讓就是大家也不只是TikTok也包含Google Line、Facebook等等都了解到我們接下來就會是網路廣告平台的主管機關這第一點那第二點在這個機關的這個權責底下有很多像剛剛提到兒少法或者是其他線上的明顯的危害有些通知取下等等的這些義務那這些義務他不能因為他是沒有落地他就不遵循這個是第二點那第三點當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論\n562969\t577794\t進外的這個敵對勢力他實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分那這部分當然昨天在立院也有委員追詢嘛那這部分我想這個期程就會跟資通安全法期程就會跟電子簽章法可能不太一樣資安法我們會在院裡繼續審議\n579261\t579281\t陳委員．\n","txt":"謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。\n午安部長。我們知道目前有關詐騙集團的猖獗跟詐騙案件的一個氾濫已經是基層民怨的很大的民怨之一。所以在上次總質詢相信最近很多委員都是關心這個議題就是如何打詐防詐。所以在\n這個院會總諮詢之後那部長也釋出說就是要來進行這個電子簽章法的一個修法希望從源頭來管制來打詐嘛所以目前我們知道這個電子簽章法已經20幾年沒有修正了嘛就是在90年公佈實施之後到今天應該是第一次來修正那可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點\n好,謝謝委員委員所提到的這個部分其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關的技術每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告那也會及時通知平台但是我們觀察到說即使平台收到了真的就都下架\n這個詐騙者他因為目前的這個身份認證KYC的程序並不是很完備所以他馬上再創一個帳號又再上同樣的廣告變成是說確實下架率越來越高沒有錯但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告那當然實際點下去那個網址常常我們就已經跟165合作那個網址其實已經連不到了但是光是看到這些頭像大家感受還是很不好所以主要這次是解決這個問題就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓\n那不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告那第二個是說就算同名同姓如果他被抓到說他是就是詐騙等等那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人他下載其他的平台的廣告也就一起來處理\n是,其實像本席平常在看臉書的時候也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站包括 張忠謀、吳淡如還有陳文倩、曹新誠等等其實這個我們在看的時候我覺得已經是不勝美舉\n所以真的是非常的氾濫所以就是說之後如果說電子簽章法我們修正案通過之後好像我目前就是圖卡上面這一類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎\n是的,這個也搭配我們數月產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出由數月產業署接下來會擔任我們的線上廣告平台網路廣告平台的目的事業主管機關那只要是主管機關我們就有一些相關的政策工具那再配上電子簽章法的修法我們有信心這個部分它的再販率就會降低當然如果要再進一步降低包含境外平台落地等等這個我們是跟內政部配合在內政部的打詐的專法來處理\n是,那就是部長有提到就是說要進行這個電子簽章法希望就是來從源頭管制來打詐嘛所以這樣子的訊息釋出之後當然也很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法那未來實施之後的一些問題所以包括說未來這個電子簽章法就本席所了解也是要透過申請核發的嘛那目前我們\n我就是說可以來合法電子簽章的我目前是有規劃有幾家首先我們如果是使用行動自然憑證或自然憑證或工商憑證這個不是民間的公司來合法的這個是我們自己政府那我們一開始跟大的平台討論會包含這個太陽在內所以並不會說一定要找民間公司來合法當然目前的簽證是達到簽章是達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的\n﹏﹏﹏\n﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n是可以提高,所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票。\n應該是這是兩件事啦就是說第一個是說如果他是有實名認證而且需要用數位簽章那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛帶別人購票的成本因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以帶他購票但現在呢他必須要有這個人的自然憑證或行動自然憑證這個就成本非常非常高所以這部分應該可以有效的來緩解那當然如果這個平台本身本來就沒有做類似這樣實名認證的話那當然電子簽章法就算通過我們不能逼著這些平台去做這樣\n我瞭解了那因為事實上很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物啦所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到這個他們就是會去詢問想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們就是在這個觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有些幫助我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事\n另外就是說還有幾個問題是包括說這個民眾如果說把他的電子簽章無意中被工作詐騙使用之後那之後他這個會被管制還是說會有受到什麼樣的處分\n﹏﹏\n這是就像你簽了一個合約一樣簽了一個契約一樣他是有法律效力的那但是當然就是說如果他的數位簽章他真的失竊還是怎麼樣那也許因為我們推定並不是說他不能舉證來反駁嗎那在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個被報呃聲稱自己被冒用的人身上\n我想我列幾個問題那因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了三有回答過了四有回答過了當然我們也是部長這樣子就是說希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過可是我覺得說這我們也不能說完全就是寄望在這個法案通過之後讓民眾好像就期待非常的高我們應該就是真的要有那個功效怎樣去落實這個很重要\n�\n我們都知道抖音對國家那個自通安全的危害非常的大那我們也看到最近美國眾議院他也有通過了這個TikTok的這個禁令法案那我們台灣沒有辦法禁嘛對不對\n首先先讓你們報告就是即使它沒有在台灣落地但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法好比方說中小學的校園等等這個部分都已經做了限制這些危害產品所以即使是還沒有落地有些措施我們可以先做這第一點\n第二點是說剛剛提到的內政部原理中的答詢專法裡面有一個專門的一個規定就是說這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平台未來它就必須要落地了這第二點那第三點就是說我們在內容跟載具跟資安這些部分呢我們定義了這個危害產品這個定義是放在資通安全法那資通安全法目前是已經在行政院進行審議\n我們知道在春節前Ttalk新加坡總部的一個負責主管有率團來台訪問。對,是我們約他來談。約他來談。是不是可以就這部分請部長簡單一下就是說我們在這一次的會談上未來會有什麼樣的一個作為來對這個假訊息有效的處理。\n對一方面當然我們是要讓就是大家也不只是TikTok也包含Google Line、Facebook等等都了解到我們接下來就會是網路廣告平台的主管機關這第一點那第二點在這個機關的這個權責底下有很多像剛剛提到兒少法或者是其他線上的明顯的危害有些通知取下等等的這些義務那這些義務他不能因為他是沒有落地他就不遵循這個是第二點那第三點當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論\n進外的這個敵對勢力他實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分那這部分當然昨天在立院也有委員追詢嘛那這部分我想這個期程就會跟資通安全法期程就會跟電子簽章法可能不太一樣資安法我們會在院裡繼續審議\n陳委員．\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.233 --> 00:07.238\n謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。\n\n00:14.240 --> 00:36.474\n午安部長。我們知道目前有關詐騙集團的猖獗跟詐騙案件的一個氾濫已經是基層民怨的很大的民怨之一。所以在上次總質詢相信最近很多委員都是關心這個議題就是如何打詐防詐。所以在\n\n00:37.715 --> 01:01.723\n這個院會總諮詢之後那部長也釋出說就是要來進行這個電子簽章法的一個修法希望從源頭來管制來打詐嘛所以目前我們知道這個電子簽章法已經20幾年沒有修正了嘛就是在90年公佈實施之後到今天應該是第一次來修正那可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點\n\n01:02.683 --> 01:17.452\n好,謝謝委員委員所提到的這個部分其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關的技術每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告那也會及時通知平台但是我們觀察到說即使平台收到了真的就都下架\n\n01:18.793 --> 01:47.191\n這個詐騙者他因為目前的這個身份認證KYC的程序並不是很完備所以他馬上再創一個帳號又再上同樣的廣告變成是說確實下架率越來越高沒有錯但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告那當然實際點下去那個網址常常我們就已經跟165合作那個網址其實已經連不到了但是光是看到這些頭像大家感受還是很不好所以主要這次是解決這個問題就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓\n\n01:47.972 --> 02:01.754\n那不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告那第二個是說就算同名同姓如果他被抓到說他是就是詐騙等等那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人他下載其他的平台的廣告也就一起來處理\n\n02:02.867 --> 02:20.629\n是,其實像本席平常在看臉書的時候也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站包括張忠謀、吳淡如還有陳文倩、曹新誠等等其實這個我們在看的時候我覺得已經是不勝美舉\n\n02:21.870 --> 02:35.780\n所以真的是非常的氾濫所以就是說之後如果說電子簽章法我們修正案通過之後好像我目前就是圖卡上面這一類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎\n\n02:36.420 --> 03:01.580\n是的,這個也搭配我們數月產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出由數月產業署接下來會擔任我們的線上廣告平台網路廣告平台的目的事業主管機關那只要是主管機關我們就有一些相關的政策工具那再配上電子簽章法的修法我們有信心這個部分它的再販率就會降低當然如果要再進一步降低包含境外平台落地等等這個我們是跟內政部配合在內政部的打詐的專法來處理\n\n03:03.163 --> 03:31.868\n是,那就是部長有提到就是說要進行這個電子簽章法希望就是來從源頭管制來打詐嘛所以這樣子的訊息釋出之後當然也很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法那未來實施之後的一些問題所以包括說未來這個電子簽章法就本席所了解也是要透過申請核發的嘛那目前我們\n\n03:32.748 --> 03:59.279\n我就是說可以來合法電子簽章的我目前是有規劃有幾家首先我們如果是使用行動自然憑證或自然憑證或工商憑證這個不是民間的公司來合法的這個是我們自己政府那我們一開始跟大的平台討論會包含這個太陽在內所以並不會說一定要找民間公司來合法當然目前的簽證是達到簽章是達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的\n\n04:52.757 --> 04:59.019\n是可以提高,所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票。\n\n04:59.936 --> 05:27.145\n應該是這是兩件事啦就是說第一個是說如果他是有實名認證而且需要用數位簽章那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛帶別人購票的成本因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以帶他購票但現在呢他必須要有這個人的自然憑證或行動自然憑證這個就成本非常非常高所以這部分應該可以有效的來緩解那當然如果這個平台本身本來就沒有做類似這樣實名認證的話那當然電子簽章法就算通過我們不能逼著這些平台去做這樣\n\n05:28.326 --> 05:49.582\n我瞭解了那因為事實上很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物啦所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到這個他們就是會去詢問想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們就是在這個觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有些幫助我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事\n\n05:51.783 --> 06:05.774\n另外就是說還有幾個問題是包括說這個民眾如果說把他的電子簽章無意中被工作詐騙使用之後那之後他這個會被管制還是說會有受到什麼樣的處分\n\n06:23.783 --> 06:42.368\n這是就像你簽了一個合約一樣簽了一個契約一樣他是有法律效力的那但是當然就是說如果他的數位簽章他真的失竊還是怎麼樣那也許因為我們推定並不是說他不能舉證來反駁嗎那在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個被報呃聲稱自己被冒用的人身上\n\n06:45.045 --> 07:10.798\n我想我列幾個問題那因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了三有回答過了四有回答過了當然我們也是部長這樣子就是說希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過可是我覺得說這我們也不能說完全就是寄望在這個法案通過之後讓民眾好像就期待非常的高我們應該就是真的要有那個功效怎樣去落實這個很重要\n\n07:33.491 --> 07:47.767\n我們都知道抖音對國家那個自通安全的危害非常的大那我們也看到最近美國眾議院他也有通過了這個TikTok的這個禁令法案那我們台灣沒有辦法禁嘛對不對\n\n07:48.288 --> 08:02.845\n首先先讓你們報告就是即使它沒有在台灣落地但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法好比方說中小學的校園等等這個部分都已經做了限制這些危害產品所以即使是還沒有落地有些措施我們可以先做這第一點\n\n08:03.405 --> 08:26.087\n第二點是說剛剛提到的內政部原理中的答詢專法裡面有一個專門的一個規定就是說這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平台未來它就必須要落地了這第二點那第三點就是說我們在內容跟載具跟資安這些部分呢我們定義了這個危害產品這個定義是放在資通安全法那資通安全法目前是已經在行政院進行審議\n\n08:28.711 --> 08:47.767\n我們知道在春節前Ttalk新加坡總部的一個負責主管有率團來台訪問。對,是我們約他來談。約他來談。是不是可以就這部分請部長簡單一下就是說我們在這一次的會談上未來會有什麼樣的一個作為來對這個假訊息有效的處理。\n\n08:54.392 --> 09:21.949\n對一方面當然我們是要讓就是大家也不只是TikTok也包含GoogleLine、Facebook等等都了解到我們接下來就會是網路廣告平台的主管機關這第一點那第二點在這個機關的這個權責底下有很多像剛剛提到兒少法或者是其他線上的明顯的危害有些通知取下等等的這些義務那這些義務他不能因為他是沒有落地他就不遵循這個是第二點那第三點當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論\n\n09:22.969 --> 09:37.794\n進外的這個敵對勢力他實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分那這部分當然昨天在立院也有委員追詢嘛那這部分我想這個期程就會跟資通安全法期程就會跟電子簽章法可能不太一樣資安法我們會在院裡繼續審議\n\n09:39.261 --> 09:39.281\n陳委員．\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.233,"end":7.238,"text":"謝謝主席。請主席邀請唐鳳部長。"},{"start":14.24,"end":36.474,"text":"午安部長。我們知道目前有關詐騙集團的猖獗跟詐騙案件的一個氾濫已經是基層民怨的很大的民怨之一。所以在上次總質詢相信最近很多委員都是關心這個議題就是如何打詐防詐。所以在"},{"start":37.715,"end":61.723,"text":"這個院會總諮詢之後那部長也釋出說就是要來進行這個電子簽章法的一個修法希望從源頭來管制來打詐嘛所以目前我們知道這個電子簽章法已經20幾年沒有修正了嘛就是在90年公佈實施之後到今天應該是第一次來修正那可不可以請部長簡單說明一下修正的重點"},{"start":62.683,"end":77.452,"text":"好,謝謝委員委員所提到的這個部分其實像我們數位產業署透過智慧防詐相關的技術每天都掃描上萬則這種廣告那也會及時通知平台但是我們觀察到說即使平台收到了真的就都下架"},{"start":78.793,"end":107.191,"text":"這個詐騙者他因為目前的這個身份認證KYC的程序並不是很完備所以他馬上再創一個帳號又再上同樣的廣告變成是說確實下架率越來越高沒有錯但大家沒事都還是看到仿冒名人的這種廣告那當然實際點下去那個網址常常我們就已經跟165合作那個網址其實已經連不到了但是光是看到這些頭像大家感受還是很不好所以主要這次是解決這個問題就是未來除非說他真的跟這個名人同名同姓"},{"start":107.972,"end":121.754,"text":"那不然的話他不能夠再冒充這個人來登廣告那第二個是說就算同名同姓如果他被抓到說他是就是詐騙等等那我們這個聯防的機制就可以把同一個自然人他下載其他的平台的廣告也就一起來處理"},{"start":122.867,"end":140.629,"text":"是,其實像本席平常在看臉書的時候也常常會看到很多冒用名人的這種網站包括 張忠謀、吳淡如還有陳文倩、曹新誠等等其實這個我們在看的時候我覺得已經是不勝美舉"},{"start":141.87,"end":155.78,"text":"所以真的是非常的氾濫所以就是說之後如果說電子簽章法我們修正案通過之後好像我目前就是圖卡上面這一類似的這種就確實可以受到管制是嗎"},{"start":156.42,"end":181.58,"text":"是的,這個也搭配我們數月產業署最近已經跟經濟部提出由數月產業署接下來會擔任我們的線上廣告平台網路廣告平台的目的事業主管機關那只要是主管機關我們就有一些相關的政策工具那再配上電子簽章法的修法我們有信心這個部分它的再販率就會降低當然如果要再進一步降低包含境外平台落地等等這個我們是跟內政部配合在內政部的打詐的專法來處理"},{"start":183.163,"end":211.868,"text":"是,那就是部長有提到就是說要進行這個電子簽章法希望就是來從源頭管制來打詐嘛所以這樣子的訊息釋出之後當然也很多關心的民眾就是會開始討論因為有的人根本不知道什麼是電子簽章法那未來實施之後的一些問題所以包括說未來這個電子簽章法就本席所了解也是要透過申請核發的嘛那目前我們"},{"start":212.748,"end":239.279,"text":"我就是說可以來合法電子簽章的我目前是有規劃有幾家首先我們如果是使用行動自然憑證或自然憑證或工商憑證這個不是民間的公司來合法的這個是我們自己政府那我們一開始跟大的平台討論會包含這個太陽在內所以並不會說一定要找民間公司來合法當然目前的簽證是達到簽章是達到數位簽章這種比較高等級的"},{"start":239.599,"end":262.637,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":262.637,"end":292.398,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":292.757,"end":299.019,"text":"是可以提高,所以還是沒有辦法百分之百去遏止黃牛票。"},{"start":299.936,"end":327.145,"text":"應該是這是兩件事啦就是說第一個是說如果他是有實名認證而且需要用數位簽章那當然就會大幅墊高黃牛帶別人購票的成本因為以前他只要有這個人的個資就可以帶他購票但現在呢他必須要有這個人的自然憑證或行動自然憑證這個就成本非常非常高所以這部分應該可以有效的來緩解那當然如果這個平台本身本來就沒有做類似這樣實名認證的話那當然電子簽章法就算通過我們不能逼著這些平台去做這樣"},{"start":328.326,"end":349.582,"text":"我瞭解了那因為事實上很多民眾都是關心跟他們生活上息息相關的事物啦所以這個問題就是很多年輕人看到這個他們就是會去詢問想要瞭解這個部分對未來他們就是在這個觀賞音樂會或者是演唱會上會不會有些幫助我們會持續積極跟文化部討論這件事"},{"start":351.783,"end":365.774,"text":"另外就是說還有幾個問題是包括說這個民眾如果說把他的電子簽章無意中被工作詐騙使用之後那之後他這個會被管制還是說會有受到什麼樣的處分"},{"start":367.261,"end":383.763,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":383.783,"end":402.368,"text":"這是就像你簽了一個合約一樣簽了一個契約一樣他是有法律效力的那但是當然就是說如果他的數位簽章他真的失竊還是怎麼樣那也許因為我們推定並不是說他不能舉證來反駁嗎那在這個時候舉證責任就要到那個被報呃聲稱自己被冒用的人身上"},{"start":405.045,"end":430.798,"text":"我想我列幾個問題那因為有的問題剛剛有委員都有詢問過了三有回答過了四有回答過了當然我們也是部長這樣子就是說希望推動電子簽章法趕快修正通過可是我覺得說這我們也不能說完全就是寄望在這個法案通過之後讓民眾好像就期待非常的高我們應該就是真的要有那個功效怎樣去落實這個很重要"},{"start":431.118,"end":453.251,"text":"�"},{"start":453.491,"end":467.767,"text":"我們都知道抖音對國家那個自通安全的危害非常的大那我們也看到最近美國眾議院他也有通過了這個TikTok的這個禁令法案那我們台灣沒有辦法禁嘛對不對"},{"start":468.288,"end":482.845,"text":"首先先讓你們報告就是即使它沒有在台灣落地但是我們目前就已經按照兒少法好比方說中小學的校園等等這個部分都已經做了限制這些危害產品所以即使是還沒有落地有些措施我們可以先做這第一點"},{"start":483.405,"end":506.087,"text":"第二點是說剛剛提到的內政部原理中的答詢專法裡面有一個專門的一個規定就是說這些一定規模的境外網路廣告平台未來它就必須要落地了這第二點那第三點就是說我們在內容跟載具跟資安這些部分呢我們定義了這個危害產品這個定義是放在資通安全法那資通安全法目前是已經在行政院進行審議"},{"start":508.711,"end":527.767,"text":"我們知道在春節前Ttalk新加坡總部的一個負責主管有率團來台訪問。對,是我們約他來談。約他來談。是不是可以就這部分請部長簡單一下就是說我們在這一次的會談上未來會有什麼樣的一個作為來對這個假訊息有效的處理。"},{"start":534.392,"end":561.949,"text":"對一方面當然我們是要讓就是大家也不只是TikTok也包含Google Line、Facebook等等都了解到我們接下來就會是網路廣告平台的主管機關這第一點那第二點在這個機關的這個權責底下有很多像剛剛提到兒少法或者是其他線上的明顯的危害有些通知取下等等的這些義務那這些義務他不能因為他是沒有落地他就不遵循這個是第二點那第三點當然我們目前也在資安法裡面在討論"},{"start":562.969,"end":577.794,"text":"進外的這個敵對勢力他實質控制到這家公司列為危害產品的部分那這部分當然昨天在立院也有委員追詢嘛那這部分我想這個期程就會跟資通安全法期程就會跟電子簽章法可能不太一樣資安法我們會在院裡繼續審議"},{"start":579.261,"end":579.281,"text":"陳委員．"}]}}}}