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10:20:01","影片長度":"00:07:59","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":479,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:20:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:12:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時12分）謝謝主席。我們請部長。"],["主席：部長有請。"],["黃委員捷：部長早。"],["林部長右昌：委員早。"],["黃委員捷：今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了，從以前的區域計畫法到現在，其實在這個過程中，大家的問題都差不多，就是時間的問題，因為距離我們要預告、公告這個功能分區算一算也只剩下一年，這是大家現在最擔心的，所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要，因為我覺得這個時候是讓內政部好好地來跟民眾溝通，然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決疑慮的，所以我希望內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通。為什麼呢？因為按照你們的時程，去年4月之前其實各地方縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了，也就是說，這些整備工作其實去年所謂的第一輪地方溝通就已經結束了，但是地方溝通結束之後，很顯然，問題還是非常多，因為過去不管是歷史的問題還是各式各樣沒有去處理的，包括山區、農區，各種狀況太多了、百百種，可是到現在好像辦完一輪說明會，還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則，這是我們現在很擔心的。因為其實地方上的民眾大家聲音非常多，到底該怎麼辦？時間剩下一年，到底夠不夠？這是大家最擔心的。","所以我想先問一下，因為只剩一年了，可是送上來的地方政府只有4個縣市，也就是說，22縣市裡面還有18個縣市沒有送上來，接下來該怎麼辦呢？請問部長，現在地方政府反映的樣態大概為何？遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些？"],["林部長右昌：倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審，因為時程本來就是預計各縣市會在今年上半年送進來，目前已經送進來的有3個。誠如剛剛委員說的，之前的程序基本上完成……"],["黃委員捷：已經走完了。"],["林部長右昌：包括書、圖和公聽會等等，所以現在是在做收斂，把資料送到部裡面來做審議的程序。當然，地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多意見，因為民眾看到圖之後，會提出相關的陳情意見，這個非常的多，各縣市政府過去一、兩年時間也把它做了收斂。基本上比較大的問題都是在過去可使用、未來能不能使用的這個所謂的劃分的問題，第二是對容許……"],["黃委員捷：等一下是不是能請部長就這個問題再跟大家說明一下？"],["林部長右昌：是，當然。其實原則上我們都是可以容許的，因為現在是一個大分區，大家都會把它跟現在都市計畫那個非常嚴格管制的土地使用分區兩個混在一起談，所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區，在大分區下面做容許的使用，至於原本的使用未來能不能同樣的去做土地使用，就是在那個分區的管制規則裡面去容許它可以做這樣的運用，這部分就是必須不斷地溝通、說明。可能一個民眾看到了就會反映一個，必須要讓他瞭解：OK，你以後是可以繼續來容許使用的。"],["黃委員捷：好，這確實是現在一個最大的問題。其實剛剛部長也有提到，這就是要回歸到接下來、下一步的土地使用分區管制規則。我現在想要問這個比較細節的部分，其實內政部也有把這個土地使用分區管制規則上網公告，你們的草案也公告了，對嗎？"],["林部長右昌：對。"],["黃委員捷：請問公告之後有什麼窒礙難行之處嗎？還是接下來就會使用這樣的規則呢？"],["林部長右昌：對於地方有反映的一些問題，我請署長來做說明。"],["黃委員捷：好。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實針對這個土地使用分區管制規則，我們跟地方政府開過非常多次會議來討論，但是對一般民眾來講，他如果不理解這一套操作規則，還是會有諸多疑慮……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["吳署長欣修：所以我跟委員報告，我們在過程當中，直到目前幾乎都有持續收到民眾或相關團體的陳情意見，這些我們都會逐一解釋、處理，第一個，新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的，不會直接讓它只有一個新的分區而看不到舊的，舊的還是會保留，如果依據舊的規定繼續做使用，這個沒有問題，你還是繼續申請，除非你有要轉換到新的分區、要做新的分區的容許使用，才會有這類的問題。但是許多民眾還是不理解。第二個，許多民眾還是期待自己的土地發展具有一定的未來性……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["吳署長欣修：這當然也是我們在這個過程當中要不斷協助地方去提出比較好的規劃和見解。這一部分我們會在逐步收斂以後，如果有需要做修正的，我們還是會進行相關的修正。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝署長。你提到現在各區民眾的一些問題，就是所謂的未來性是什麼。我們當然知道保育很重要，但是也不希望地方自然資源的保育和生存權是扞格的，我覺得這是接下來這一年你們最重要的功課。不知道你們接下來有什麼和各縣市溝通的程序，可不可以跟大家說明你們的溝通計畫？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，接下來他們送上來審查的時候，我們會透過審查委員會跟地方政府、陳情的人民持續溝通並進行審議，第二個是我們每個月都會和地方政府召開進度追蹤會議，地方政府也會不斷提出他們的意見，所以我們在這個過程當中都會持續瞭解地方發展所需要的項目，有一些可以採納的，我們也建議它在送上來的時候適時提出，我們會進行討論和修正。如果純粹是民眾的誤解或是的確有窒礙難行之處，我們當然也會跟各地方政府及民眾妥予說明，這一點我們一定會持續努力去做。"],["黃委員捷：好，我覺得各縣市如果有一些基本的、通案性的原則已經收攏了，其實可以讓各縣市先知道這些基本原則為何，可不可以？"],["林部長右昌：當然可以。第二個我跟委員說明一下，如果要跟民眾解釋的話，很簡單，就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後，會有一個國土計畫功能分區證明，在那個功能分區證明裡面會標註它原本的分區，所以在原本的分區裡面去做使用的話，並不會有違規的問題。這一點可以跟民眾說明……"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長清楚的說明。"],["林部長右昌：這樣比較容易瞭解。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯、沒錯，這是非常、非常重要的。因為時間非常、非常急迫，我覺得接下來這一年，你們任何東西都應該要加快速度，這是大家最大的要求。"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員。","接下來我們請徐欣瑩委員提出質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 131.655, \"end\": 131.675, \"score\": 0.858}]}, {\"start\": 132.834, \"end\": 162.198, \"text\": \"倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"倒\", \"start\": 132.834, \"end\": 132.994, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 132.994, \"end\": 133.114, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 133.114, \"end\": 134.135, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 134.135, \"end\": 134.235, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 134.235, \"end\": 134.395, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 134.395, \"end\": 134.596, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 134.596, \"end\": 135.156, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"遲\"}, {\"word\": \"遲\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 135.156, \"end\": 135.276, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 135.276, \"end\": 136.137, 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\"end\": 450.875, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"捷\", \"start\": 451.835, \"end\": 451.915, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 451.915, \"end\": 451.935, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,418 --> 00:00:08,100\n好謝謝主席我們請部長部長有請好部長早其實今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了因為從以前的這個區域計畫法到現在其實這個過程到現在其實大家的問題都差不多啦就是時間的問題因為其實距離這個我們要預告公告這個功能分區其實算一算也只剩下一年喔\n\n2\n00:00:33,262 --> 00:00:58,281\n這是一個非常大家現在最擔心的所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要因為我覺得這個時候是讓我們內政部好好的跟民眾來溝通然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決這個大家的疑慮的我覺得這個時候是希望我們內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通為什麼呢因為其實照你們的時程上面\n\n3\n00:00:58,721 --> 00:01:09,109\n去年4月之前其實各地方的縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了也就是說這些整備工作其實在去年就已經差不多所謂第一輪的這個地方的溝通已經結束了但是地方溝通結束之後很顯然問題還是非常多因為這個過去不管是這個歷史的問題還是說各式各樣的沒有去處理的從山區農區各種狀況太多了八百種\n\n4\n00:01:28,744 --> 00:01:53,795\n可是到現在好像辦完了一輪說明會還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則那這是我們現在很擔心的因為地方上的民眾其實大家的聲音非常多到底該怎麼辦然後時間剩下一年到底夠不夠我想這是大家最擔心的所以我想先問一下因為到現在距離一年了可是真的送上來的地方政府只有4個\n\n5\n00:01:54,995 --> 00:02:11,675\n只有4個縣市也就是說我們22縣市裡面還有18個縣市還沒有送上來那接下來該怎麼辦呢我想先問一下部長說現在地方政府的反應大概是樣態為何遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些\n\n6\n00:02:12,834 --> 00:02:42,198\n倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後\n\n7\n00:02:42,959 --> 00:03:05,121\n他有相關的一個陳情的意見提出來這個非常的多那各縣市政府大概在過去一兩年時間也把它做了收斂基本上比較大的問題都是在這個過去可使用現在未來未來能不能使用的這個所謂的話分的問題第二個是對那是不是就這個問題等一下也請部長再跟大家說明一下\n\n8\n00:03:06,242 --> 00:03:33,491\n其實原則上我們都是可以容許因為現在是一個大分區大家都會把它跟現在的都市計畫的那個非常嚴格管制的這種土地使用分區把它兩個混在一起談所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區大分區下面去做容許的一個使用那你原本的一個使用未來能不能同樣的去做這個土地使用的話就是在那個分區的\n\n9\n00:03:34,331 --> 00:03:34,712\n確實這是一個現在最大的問題\n\n10\n00:03:50,530 --> 00:04:09,166\n所以其實剛剛部長也有提到說這個就是要回歸到接下來下一步就是這些土地使用分區的管制的規則那我現在就是想要問這個比較細節的部分了就是說其實我們內政部有把這個土地使用分區的管制規則其實你們是有上網公告的你們的草案也公告了對嗎\n\n11\n00:04:12,045 --> 00:04:23,461\n那現在公告之後那請問就是有什麼至愛難行之處嗎還是這個原則大概就是接下來會使用這樣的規則呢是那個有地方有反映的一些問題我請署長來做說明\n\n12\n00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:52,959\n跟委員報告其實這個土地使用管制規則跟地方政府其實開過非常多次會討論但是我們知道對於一般民眾來講他如果不理解這一套的操作規則其實他還是會有諸多的疑慮所以跟委員報告其實我們過程當中現在目前幾乎都有在持續收到民眾或是相關團體的陳情意見那這些我們都會逐一來解釋來做處理我們跟委員報告第一個\n\n13\n00:04:53,619 --> 00:05:15,800\n新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的不會讓它直接只有一個新的分區我看不到舊的分區舊的還是會保留如果你依據舊的這個和繼續做相關的依舊的規定繼續做使用這個沒有問題你還是繼續申請除非你有要轉換到新的分區你要做新的分區的容許使用\n\n14\n00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:39,524\n才會有這類的問題但是許多民眾還是不理解第二個許多民眾還是期待他的土地發展有他一定的未來性沒錯那這個也是他們另外那這當然也是我們在這過程當中要不斷的協助地方去提出比較好的這個規劃跟見解那這一部分我想在我們會逐步的收斂以後如果有需要做修正的我們還是會進行相關的修正\n\n15\n00:05:39,926 --> 00:06:07,245\n好謝謝署長其實你提到就是我們現在各區的民眾的一些問題啦就是說這個所謂的未來性是什麼因為我們當然知道保育很重要但是地方的這些資源的保育自然資源的保育不希望跟生存權是漢格的那我覺得這個是接下來這一年來你們最重要的功課那所以我希望是接下來不知道你們有什麼就是會跟各縣市溝通的一些程序可不可以跟大家說明你們接下來的溝通的計畫\n\n16\n00:06:08,531 --> 00:06:25,199\n跟委員報告其實在接下來他們如果送上來審查的時候那其實當然我們會透過這個審查委員會那跟地方政府跟這陳請的人民都會有繼續持續的這個溝通進行審議那第二個就是說我們跟地方政府每個月都會召開\n\n17\n00:06:26,179 --> 00:06:53,866\n進度追蹤。其實地方政府也不斷的會提出他們的一些意見那這些就是我們在這過程當中都會持續的了解地方發展所需要的這些項目那這些有一些可以採納的我們也建議他在上來的時候適時的提出我們也會進行討論修正那如果的確是有民眾的誤解或是的確那有自愛難行我們當然也會跟這個地方政府跟民眾同意的來做說明我想這一點我們\n\n18\n00:06:54,502 --> 00:07:06,844\n一定會持續的努力去做我覺得其實各縣市如果有一些基本的通案性的原則已經收攏了那我覺得這些其實是可以讓各縣市先知道這個基本原則為何可不可以\n\n19\n00:07:07,666 --> 00:07:30,875\n我想當然可以那第二個我跟委員說明一下如果要跟民眾解釋的話很簡單就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後會有一個叫做國土計畫的功能分區證明會有一個叫做國土計畫功能分區證明那在那個功能分區證明裡面會去標註它原本的分區\n\n20\n00:07:31,835 --> 00:07:31,935\n謝謝黃捷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5418\t8100\t好謝謝主席我們請部長部長有請好部長早其實今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了因為從以前的這個區域計畫法到現在其實這個過程到現在其實大家的問題都差不多啦就是時間的問題因為其實距離這個我們要預告公告這個功能分區其實算一算也只剩下一年喔\n33262\t58281\t這是一個非常大家現在最擔心的所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要因為我覺得這個時候是讓我們內政部好好的跟民眾來溝通然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決這個大家的疑慮的我覺得這個時候是希望我們內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通為什麼呢因為其實照你們的時程上面\n58721\t69109\t去年4月之前其實各地方的縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了也就是說這些整備工作其實在去年就已經差不多所謂第一輪的這個地方的溝通已經結束了但是地方溝通結束之後很顯然問題還是非常多因為這個過去不管是這個歷史的問題還是說各式各樣的沒有去處理的從山區農區各種狀況太多了八百種\n88744\t113795\t可是到現在好像辦完了一輪說明會還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則那這是我們現在很擔心的因為地方上的民眾其實大家的聲音非常多到底該怎麼辦然後時間剩下一年到底夠不夠我想這是大家最擔心的所以我想先問一下因為到現在距離一年了可是真的送上來的地方政府只有4個\n114995\t131675\t只有4個縣市也就是說我們22縣市裡面還有18個縣市還沒有送上來那接下來該怎麼辦呢我想先問一下部長說現在地方政府的反應大概是樣態為何遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些\n132834\t162198\t倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後\n162959\t185121\t他有相關的一個陳情的意見提出來這個非常的多那各縣市政府大概在過去一兩年時間也把它做了收斂基本上比較大的問題都是在這個過去可使用現在未來未來能不能使用的這個所謂的話分的問題第二個是對那是不是就這個問題等一下也請部長再跟大家說明一下\n186242\t213491\t其實原則上我們都是可以容許因為現在是一個大分區大家都會把它跟現在的都市計畫的那個非常嚴格管制的這種土地使用分區把它兩個混在一起談所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區大分區下面去做容許的一個使用那你原本的一個使用未來能不能同樣的去做這個土地使用的話就是在那個分區的\n214331\t214712\t確實這是一個現在最大的問題\n230530\t249166\t所以其實剛剛部長也有提到說這個就是要回歸到接下來下一步就是這些土地使用分區的管制的規則那我現在就是想要問這個比較細節的部分了就是說其實我們內政部有把這個土地使用分區的管制規則其實你們是有上網公告的你們的草案也公告了對嗎\n252045\t263461\t那現在公告之後那請問就是有什麼至愛難行之處嗎還是這個原則大概就是接下來會使用這樣的規則呢是那個有地方有反映的一些問題我請署長來做說明\n266740\t292959\t跟委員報告其實這個土地使用管制規則跟地方政府其實開過非常多次會討論但是我們知道對於一般民眾來講他如果不理解這一套的操作規則其實他還是會有諸多的疑慮所以跟委員報告其實我們過程當中現在目前幾乎都有在持續收到民眾或是相關團體的陳情意見那這些我們都會逐一來解釋來做處理我們跟委員報告第一個\n293619\t315800\t新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的不會讓它直接只有一個新的分區我看不到舊的分區舊的還是會保留如果你依據舊的這個和繼續做相關的依舊的規定繼續做使用這個沒有問題你還是繼續申請除非你有要轉換到新的分區你要做新的分區的容許使用\n316400\t339524\t才會有這類的問題但是許多民眾還是不理解第二個許多民眾還是期待他的土地發展有他一定的未來性沒錯那這個也是他們另外那這當然也是我們在這過程當中要不斷的協助地方去提出比較好的這個規劃跟見解那這一部分我想在我們會逐步的收斂以後如果有需要做修正的我們還是會進行相關的修正\n339926\t367245\t好 謝謝署長其實你提到就是我們現在各區的民眾的一些問題啦就是說這個所謂的未來性是什麼因為我們當然知道保育很重要但是地方的這些資源的保育自然資源的保育不希望跟生存權是漢格的那我覺得這個是接下來這一年來你們最重要的功課那所以我希望是接下來不知道你們有什麼就是會跟各縣市溝通的一些程序可不可以跟大家說明你們接下來的溝通的計畫\n368531\t385199\t跟委員報告其實在接下來他們如果送上來審查的時候那其實當然我們會透過這個審查委員會那跟地方政府跟這陳請的人民都會有繼續持續的這個溝通進行審議那第二個就是說我們跟地方政府每個月都會召開\n386179\t413866\t進度追蹤。其實地方政府也不斷的會提出他們的一些意見那這些就是我們在這過程當中都會持續的了解地方發展所需要的這些項目那這些有一些可以採納的我們也建議他在上來的時候適時的提出我們也會進行討論修正那如果的確是有民眾的誤解或是的確那有自愛難行我們當然也會跟這個地方政府跟民眾同意的來做說明我想這一點我們\n414502\t426844\t一定會持續的努力去做我覺得其實各縣市如果有一些基本的通案性的原則已經收攏了那我覺得這些其實是可以讓各縣市先知道這個基本原則為何可不可以\n427666\t450875\t我想當然可以那第二個我跟委員說明一下如果要跟民眾解釋的話很簡單就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後會有一個叫做國土計畫的功能分區證明會有一個叫做國土計畫功能分區證明那在那個功能分區證明裡面會去標註它原本的分區\n451835\t451935\t謝謝黃捷委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請部長部長有請好部長早其實今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了因為從以前的這個區域計畫法到現在其實這個過程到現在其實大家的問題都差不多啦就是時間的問題因為其實距離這個我們要預告公告這個功能分區其實算一算也只剩下一年喔\n這是一個非常大家現在最擔心的所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要因為我覺得這個時候是讓我們內政部好好的跟民眾來溝通然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決這個大家的疑慮的我覺得這個時候是希望我們內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通為什麼呢因為其實照你們的時程上面\n去年4月之前其實各地方的縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了也就是說這些整備工作其實在去年就已經差不多所謂第一輪的這個地方的溝通已經結束了但是地方溝通結束之後很顯然問題還是非常多因為這個過去不管是這個歷史的問題還是說各式各樣的沒有去處理的從山區農區各種狀況太多了八百種\n可是到現在好像辦完了一輪說明會還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則那這是我們現在很擔心的因為地方上的民眾其實大家的聲音非常多到底該怎麼辦然後時間剩下一年到底夠不夠我想這是大家最擔心的所以我想先問一下因為到現在距離一年了可是真的送上來的地方政府只有4個\n只有4個縣市也就是說我們22縣市裡面還有18個縣市還沒有送上來那接下來該怎麼辦呢我想先問一下部長說現在地方政府的反應大概是樣態為何遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些\n倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後\n他有相關的一個陳情的意見提出來這個非常的多那各縣市政府大概在過去一兩年時間也把它做了收斂基本上比較大的問題都是在這個過去可使用現在未來未來能不能使用的這個所謂的話分的問題第二個是對那是不是就這個問題等一下也請部長再跟大家說明一下\n其實原則上我們都是可以容許因為現在是一個大分區大家都會把它跟現在的都市計畫的那個非常嚴格管制的這種土地使用分區把它兩個混在一起談所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區大分區下面去做容許的一個使用那你原本的一個使用未來能不能同樣的去做這個土地使用的話就是在那個分區的\n確實這是一個現在最大的問題\n所以其實剛剛部長也有提到說這個就是要回歸到接下來下一步就是這些土地使用分區的管制的規則那我現在就是想要問這個比較細節的部分了就是說其實我們內政部有把這個土地使用分區的管制規則其實你們是有上網公告的你們的草案也公告了對嗎\n那現在公告之後那請問就是有什麼至愛難行之處嗎還是這個原則大概就是接下來會使用這樣的規則呢是那個有地方有反映的一些問題我請署長來做說明\n跟委員報告其實這個土地使用管制規則跟地方政府其實開過非常多次會討論但是我們知道對於一般民眾來講他如果不理解這一套的操作規則其實他還是會有諸多的疑慮所以跟委員報告其實我們過程當中現在目前幾乎都有在持續收到民眾或是相關團體的陳情意見那這些我們都會逐一來解釋來做處理我們跟委員報告第一個\n新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的不會讓它直接只有一個新的分區我看不到舊的分區舊的還是會保留如果你依據舊的這個和繼續做相關的依舊的規定繼續做使用這個沒有問題你還是繼續申請除非你有要轉換到新的分區你要做新的分區的容許使用\n才會有這類的問題但是許多民眾還是不理解第二個許多民眾還是期待他的土地發展有他一定的未來性沒錯那這個也是他們另外那這當然也是我們在這過程當中要不斷的協助地方去提出比較好的這個規劃跟見解那這一部分我想在我們會逐步的收斂以後如果有需要做修正的我們還是會進行相關的修正\n好 謝謝署長其實你提到就是我們現在各區的民眾的一些問題啦就是說這個所謂的未來性是什麼因為我們當然知道保育很重要但是地方的這些資源的保育自然資源的保育不希望跟生存權是漢格的那我覺得這個是接下來這一年來你們最重要的功課那所以我希望是接下來不知道你們有什麼就是會跟各縣市溝通的一些程序可不可以跟大家說明你們接下來的溝通的計畫\n跟委員報告其實在接下來他們如果送上來審查的時候那其實當然我們會透過這個審查委員會那跟地方政府跟這陳請的人民都會有繼續持續的這個溝通進行審議那第二個就是說我們跟地方政府每個月都會召開\n進度追蹤。其實地方政府也不斷的會提出他們的一些意見那這些就是我們在這過程當中都會持續的了解地方發展所需要的這些項目那這些有一些可以採納的我們也建議他在上來的時候適時的提出我們也會進行討論修正那如果的確是有民眾的誤解或是的確那有自愛難行我們當然也會跟這個地方政府跟民眾同意的來做說明我想這一點我們\n一定會持續的努力去做我覺得其實各縣市如果有一些基本的通案性的原則已經收攏了那我覺得這些其實是可以讓各縣市先知道這個基本原則為何可不可以\n我想當然可以那第二個我跟委員說明一下如果要跟民眾解釋的話很簡單就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後會有一個叫做國土計畫的功能分區證明會有一個叫做國土計畫功能分區證明那在那個功能分區證明裡面會去標註它原本的分區\n謝謝黃捷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.418 --> 00:08.100\n好謝謝主席我們請部長部長有請好部長早其實今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了因為從以前的這個區域計畫法到現在其實這個過程到現在其實大家的問題都差不多啦就是時間的問題因為其實距離這個我們要預告公告這個功能分區其實算一算也只剩下一年喔\n\n00:33.262 --> 00:58.281\n這是一個非常大家現在最擔心的所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要因為我覺得這個時候是讓我們內政部好好的跟民眾來溝通然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決這個大家的疑慮的我覺得這個時候是希望我們內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通為什麼呢因為其實照你們的時程上面\n\n00:58.721 --> 01:09.109\n去年4月之前其實各地方的縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了也就是說這些整備工作其實在去年就已經差不多所謂第一輪的這個地方的溝通已經結束了但是地方溝通結束之後很顯然問題還是非常多因為這個過去不管是這個歷史的問題還是說各式各樣的沒有去處理的從山區農區各種狀況太多了八百種\n\n01:28.744 --> 01:53.795\n可是到現在好像辦完了一輪說明會還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則那這是我們現在很擔心的因為地方上的民眾其實大家的聲音非常多到底該怎麼辦然後時間剩下一年到底夠不夠我想這是大家最擔心的所以我想先問一下因為到現在距離一年了可是真的送上來的地方政府只有4個\n\n01:54.995 --> 02:11.675\n只有4個縣市也就是說我們22縣市裡面還有18個縣市還沒有送上來那接下來該怎麼辦呢我想先問一下部長說現在地方政府的反應大概是樣態為何遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些\n\n02:12.834 --> 02:42.198\n倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後\n\n02:42.959 --> 03:05.121\n他有相關的一個陳情的意見提出來這個非常的多那各縣市政府大概在過去一兩年時間也把它做了收斂基本上比較大的問題都是在這個過去可使用現在未來未來能不能使用的這個所謂的話分的問題第二個是對那是不是就這個問題等一下也請部長再跟大家說明一下\n\n03:06.242 --> 03:33.491\n其實原則上我們都是可以容許因為現在是一個大分區大家都會把它跟現在的都市計畫的那個非常嚴格管制的這種土地使用分區把它兩個混在一起談所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區大分區下面去做容許的一個使用那你原本的一個使用未來能不能同樣的去做這個土地使用的話就是在那個分區的\n\n03:34.331 --> 03:34.712\n確實這是一個現在最大的問題\n\n03:50.530 --> 04:09.166\n所以其實剛剛部長也有提到說這個就是要回歸到接下來下一步就是這些土地使用分區的管制的規則那我現在就是想要問這個比較細節的部分了就是說其實我們內政部有把這個土地使用分區的管制規則其實你們是有上網公告的你們的草案也公告了對嗎\n\n04:12.045 --> 04:23.461\n那現在公告之後那請問就是有什麼至愛難行之處嗎還是這個原則大概就是接下來會使用這樣的規則呢是那個有地方有反映的一些問題我請署長來做說明\n\n04:26.740 --> 04:52.959\n跟委員報告其實這個土地使用管制規則跟地方政府其實開過非常多次會討論但是我們知道對於一般民眾來講他如果不理解這一套的操作規則其實他還是會有諸多的疑慮所以跟委員報告其實我們過程當中現在目前幾乎都有在持續收到民眾或是相關團體的陳情意見那這些我們都會逐一來解釋來做處理我們跟委員報告第一個\n\n04:53.619 --> 05:15.800\n新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的不會讓它直接只有一個新的分區我看不到舊的分區舊的還是會保留如果你依據舊的這個和繼續做相關的依舊的規定繼續做使用這個沒有問題你還是繼續申請除非你有要轉換到新的分區你要做新的分區的容許使用\n\n05:16.400 --> 05:39.524\n才會有這類的問題但是許多民眾還是不理解第二個許多民眾還是期待他的土地發展有他一定的未來性沒錯那這個也是他們另外那這當然也是我們在這過程當中要不斷的協助地方去提出比較好的這個規劃跟見解那這一部分我想在我們會逐步的收斂以後如果有需要做修正的我們還是會進行相關的修正\n\n05:39.926 --> 06:07.245\n好謝謝署長其實你提到就是我們現在各區的民眾的一些問題啦就是說這個所謂的未來性是什麼因為我們當然知道保育很重要但是地方的這些資源的保育自然資源的保育不希望跟生存權是漢格的那我覺得這個是接下來這一年來你們最重要的功課那所以我希望是接下來不知道你們有什麼就是會跟各縣市溝通的一些程序可不可以跟大家說明你們接下來的溝通的計畫\n\n06:08.531 --> 06:25.199\n跟委員報告其實在接下來他們如果送上來審查的時候那其實當然我們會透過這個審查委員會那跟地方政府跟這陳請的人民都會有繼續持續的這個溝通進行審議那第二個就是說我們跟地方政府每個月都會召開\n\n06:26.179 --> 06:53.866\n進度追蹤。其實地方政府也不斷的會提出他們的一些意見那這些就是我們在這過程當中都會持續的了解地方發展所需要的這些項目那這些有一些可以採納的我們也建議他在上來的時候適時的提出我們也會進行討論修正那如果的確是有民眾的誤解或是的確那有自愛難行我們當然也會跟這個地方政府跟民眾同意的來做說明我想這一點我們\n\n06:54.502 --> 07:06.844\n一定會持續的努力去做我覺得其實各縣市如果有一些基本的通案性的原則已經收攏了那我覺得這些其實是可以讓各縣市先知道這個基本原則為何可不可以\n\n07:07.666 --> 07:30.875\n我想當然可以那第二個我跟委員說明一下如果要跟民眾解釋的話很簡單就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後會有一個叫做國土計畫的功能分區證明會有一個叫做國土計畫功能分區證明那在那個功能分區證明裡面會去標註它原本的分區\n\n07:31.835 --> 07:31.935\n謝謝黃捷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.418,"end":8.1,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請部長部長有請好部長早其實今天這個國土計畫法已經談論很久了因為從以前的這個區域計畫法到現在其實這個過程到現在其實大家的問題都差不多啦就是時間的問題因為其實距離這個我們要預告公告這個功能分區其實算一算也只剩下一年喔"},{"start":33.262,"end":58.281,"text":"這是一個非常大家現在最擔心的所以今天排這個專案報告我想是有其必要因為我覺得這個時候是讓我們內政部好好的跟民眾來溝通然後讓大家知道你們是想要替大家解決這個大家的疑慮的我覺得這個時候是希望我們內政部可以藉由這個時間再跟大家多做溝通為什麼呢因為其實照你們的時程上面"},{"start":58.721,"end":69.109,"text":"去年4月之前其實各地方的縣市政府已經辦完所有的功能分區跟審議會的相關工作了也就是說這些整備工作其實在去年就已經差不多所謂第一輪的這個地方的溝通已經結束了但是地方溝通結束之後很顯然問題還是非常多因為這個過去不管是這個歷史的問題還是說各式各樣的沒有去處理的從山區農區各種狀況太多了八百種"},{"start":88.744,"end":113.795,"text":"可是到現在好像辦完了一輪說明會還沒有辦法給大家一個比較正式的指導原則那這是我們現在很擔心的因為地方上的民眾其實大家的聲音非常多到底該怎麼辦然後時間剩下一年到底夠不夠我想這是大家最擔心的所以我想先問一下因為到現在距離一年了可是真的送上來的地方政府只有4個"},{"start":114.995,"end":131.675,"text":"只有4個縣市也就是說我們22縣市裡面還有18個縣市還沒有送上來那接下來該怎麼辦呢我想先問一下部長說現在地方政府的反應大概是樣態為何遲遲沒有送審的原因大致有哪些"},{"start":132.834,"end":162.198,"text":"倒不是說地方政府遲遲不送審因為本來就是在今年的上半年預計的這個期程各縣市會送進來那目前已經送進來3個那依照因為也誠如剛剛委員說之前的程序基本上完成書圖包括公聽會等等所以現在是在做收斂把資料送到部裡面來做審議的一個程序那當然地方在這個過程裡面有發現很多的一個意見因為民眾看到圖了之後"},{"start":162.959,"end":185.121,"text":"他有相關的一個陳情的意見提出來這個非常的多那各縣市政府大概在過去一兩年時間也把它做了收斂基本上比較大的問題都是在這個過去可使用現在未來未來能不能使用的這個所謂的話分的問題第二個是對那是不是就這個問題等一下也請部長再跟大家說明一下"},{"start":186.242,"end":213.491,"text":"其實原則上我們都是可以容許因為現在是一個大分區大家都會把它跟現在的都市計畫的那個非常嚴格管制的這種土地使用分區把它兩個混在一起談所以在國土計畫裡面是一個大分區大分區下面去做容許的一個使用那你原本的一個使用未來能不能同樣的去做這個土地使用的話就是在那個分區的"},{"start":214.331,"end":214.712,"text":"確實這是一個現在最大的問題"},{"start":230.53,"end":249.166,"text":"所以其實剛剛部長也有提到說這個就是要回歸到接下來下一步就是這些土地使用分區的管制的規則那我現在就是想要問這個比較細節的部分了就是說其實我們內政部有把這個土地使用分區的管制規則其實你們是有上網公告的你們的草案也公告了對嗎"},{"start":252.045,"end":263.461,"text":"那現在公告之後那請問就是有什麼至愛難行之處嗎還是這個原則大概就是接下來會使用這樣的規則呢是那個有地方有反映的一些問題我請署長來做說明"},{"start":266.74,"end":292.959,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個土地使用管制規則跟地方政府其實開過非常多次會討論但是我們知道對於一般民眾來講他如果不理解這一套的操作規則其實他還是會有諸多的疑慮所以跟委員報告其實我們過程當中現在目前幾乎都有在持續收到民眾或是相關團體的陳情意見那這些我們都會逐一來解釋來做處理我們跟委員報告第一個"},{"start":293.619,"end":315.8,"text":"新舊的土地使用分區一定是銜接的不會讓它直接只有一個新的分區我看不到舊的分區舊的還是會保留如果你依據舊的這個和繼續做相關的依舊的規定繼續做使用這個沒有問題你還是繼續申請除非你有要轉換到新的分區你要做新的分區的容許使用"},{"start":316.4,"end":339.524,"text":"才會有這類的問題但是許多民眾還是不理解第二個許多民眾還是期待他的土地發展有他一定的未來性沒錯那這個也是他們另外那這當然也是我們在這過程當中要不斷的協助地方去提出比較好的這個規劃跟見解那這一部分我想在我們會逐步的收斂以後如果有需要做修正的我們還是會進行相關的修正"},{"start":339.926,"end":367.245,"text":"好 謝謝署長其實你提到就是我們現在各區的民眾的一些問題啦就是說這個所謂的未來性是什麼因為我們當然知道保育很重要但是地方的這些資源的保育自然資源的保育不希望跟生存權是漢格的那我覺得這個是接下來這一年來你們最重要的功課那所以我希望是接下來不知道你們有什麼就是會跟各縣市溝通的一些程序可不可以跟大家說明你們接下來的溝通的計畫"},{"start":368.531,"end":385.199,"text":"跟委員報告其實在接下來他們如果送上來審查的時候那其實當然我們會透過這個審查委員會那跟地方政府跟這陳請的人民都會有繼續持續的這個溝通進行審議那第二個就是說我們跟地方政府每個月都會召開"},{"start":386.179,"end":413.866,"text":"進度追蹤。其實地方政府也不斷的會提出他們的一些意見那這些就是我們在這過程當中都會持續的了解地方發展所需要的這些項目那這些有一些可以採納的我們也建議他在上來的時候適時的提出我們也會進行討論修正那如果的確是有民眾的誤解或是的確那有自愛難行我們當然也會跟這個地方政府跟民眾同意的來做說明我想這一點我們"},{"start":414.502,"end":426.844,"text":"一定會持續的努力去做我覺得其實各縣市如果有一些基本的通案性的原則已經收攏了那我覺得這些其實是可以讓各縣市先知道這個基本原則為何可不可以"},{"start":427.666,"end":450.875,"text":"我想當然可以那第二個我跟委員說明一下如果要跟民眾解釋的話很簡單就是可以跟他說明未來在國土計畫上路之後會有一個叫做國土計畫的功能分區證明會有一個叫做國土計畫功能分區證明那在那個功能分區證明裡面會去標註它原本的分區"},{"start":451.835,"end":451.935,"text":"謝謝黃捷委員"}]}}}}