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10:39:30","影片長度":"00:08:39","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":519,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:39:30+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:30:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":517,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（10時31分）謝謝主席。主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，部長有請。"],["林部長右昌：委員你好。"],["黃委員建賓：部長早安。部長，當時我們的祖先不管是河洛人還是客家人，早期翻身越嶺、渡過黑水溝來到這塊土地生活，其實最主要就是要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛，是不是？是這樣嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我想是不是尋找一塊地，我不曉得啦……"],["黃委員建賓：我說我們的祖先啦，我們的祖先早期來這裡找看看……"],["林部長右昌：不過就是尋找一個可安身立命的地方。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我會這樣講是因為國民政府遷來臺灣的時候，其實所做的也都是土地改革，不管是三七五或者是耕者有其田這些事情，目前民進黨政府也在處理地的問題，不管是種電還是開工業區，不過我想這都是在跟人民搶地。但本席對這一切作為唯一支持的原因，就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向、有未來、有前瞻，所以國土計畫法的實施我想這是可以讓臺灣獲得永久發展的機會，這個方向是對的！","不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後，它分三個階段嘛，第一個階段是在2年內要公告實施全國國土計畫；第二個階段是在第一階段公告3年內要公告縣市的國土計畫，不過在公告之後發生很多的抗爭，很多農民都要上街頭。部長，你知道發生什麼事嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我想最主要是跟過去的使用習慣與認知有所意見，所以在第二階段縣市政府公告國土計畫分區之後，大家看到那個圖然後瞭解到他好像有一些疑問，所以當然有一些陳情的問題出來。"],["黃委員建賓：像很多農民在第一階段國保一的土地公聽會就發現，自己的土地無預警地被劃作在國保一裡面，他擔心他的權益會受損，所以揚言要抗爭到底。"],["林部長右昌：不過國保一的部分，它本來就是保育區的土地。"],["黃委員建賓：是的，所以在劃訂的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償問題？怎麼補償他們？"],["林部長右昌：委員，這部分有兩件事，第一個，它本來在非都市土地裡面就是保育區，所以你去把它談到所謂的補償，可能不要這樣子談會比較適宜，因為它本來就是保育區。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，本席問的是，對於在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作、生活的人來講，因為你頒布之後造成的影響。"],["林部長右昌：他還是可以使用，權益都一樣，不影響他原本的使用。"],["黃委員建賓：所以不影響啦。"],["林部長右昌：是。不過因為它本來就是保育區，所以並不是去剝奪他原本的使用，它就算劃成是國保一……"],["黃委員建賓：到現在還有沒有爭議事件發生？"],["林部長右昌：現在當然……"],["黃委員建賓：還是有嘛。"],["林部長右昌：陸陸續續……"],["黃委員建賓：還是有。"],["林部長右昌：陸陸續續當然會有。"],["黃委員建賓：我想國土署署長應該也常收到很多的陳情案，對不對？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告，其實這個是非常正常的，因為我們在處理的時候，不要講非都、不要講國土計畫，其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面，每次在檢討的時候都有很多的陳情案。"],["黃委員建賓：所以部長，本席想表達的是說，我們明年5月1號就要開始實行、就要上路，在這麼多爭議都還沒有得到民眾的理解之前，你這樣冒然地上路，我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整的情況，你不覺得這樣執行會造成更多的糾紛嗎？"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面都有說過，這部國土計畫法的訂定還有包括實施的期程其實已經有一段時間，所以並不是倉促上路；第二個，當然這有許多意見反映出來，那我們就是把這些意見一一彙整跟處理，所以意見跟問題也在收斂，我想這是一定的過程跟進展。"],["黃委員建賓：是，謝謝部長。部長，民進黨籍的陳亭妃委員也提到，其實國土計畫法真的是立意良善，旨在確保我們的國土安全，然後保護我們的環境、自然還有人文資產，這個方向是對的，但是因為它的配套措施不明，中央地方事權不一，導致民眾無所適從、無頭蒼蠅，如果在明年的5月1號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨，所以具體建議應該延後上路，等待配套完成再執行，這個是陳亭妃委員所提到的。","部長，其實本席要求的跟陳亭妃委員的不太一樣，本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則，你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡，再來實行這一塊。部長，請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過？"],["林部長右昌：兩個東西，第一個，國土計畫法已經頒布實施嘛；第二個，管制規則我們擬定好，現在正在進行預告的程序。所以剛剛在講國土計畫的功能分區，那個也是在整體推動執行的程序裡面。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：那個在前面，管制一定會在前面。"],["黃委員建賓：所以何時能夠通過？"],["林部長右昌：現在就是在進行法制的程序。"],["黃委員建賓：我想要先讓民眾知道他自己能做什麼、不能做什麼，這個我覺得比較重要。"],["林部長右昌：今年內一定會公告。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，另外依據國土計畫法第三十二條明文規定，因為建築物或者建地位於區域敏感地區必須遷移或者變更要予以補償，所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金，是不是？依照國土計畫法第四條規定，未來要有500億的基金。部長，我們從2016年實行到現在，我們基金有多少了？300億？"],["林部長右昌：現在有300億。"],["黃委員建賓：不夠的部分呢？"],["林部長右昌：逐年撥。而且因為這個不是一下子全部用，就如你剛剛講的，有個案出來的時候會來做處理。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，如果補不滿的話，未來是中央先墊還是地方先墊？"],["林部長右昌：不會有這個問題，這是中央的部分。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長。","最後我想要再請教一下部長，你們在內政部的報告裡面有提到透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定，協助未登記工廠、宗教寺廟、存有建物租約國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制，這部分本席要給予肯定。部長知道臺東有一間天后宮，臺東的天后宮是臺東最早的寺廟、也是臺東縣的宗教信仰中心，它非常的重要，不過因為時空背景關係，它有土地被國家擅用，後來在臺東縣政府積極作為底下成為臺東第一宗還地於廟的案例。不過現在還有4筆現有土地因為地方政府對於法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還，這部分廟方也跟本席這邊陳情，希望部長那邊能夠派專員來協助，畢竟這些土地從日治時代就是天后宮的，那是很早就有的、日治就有了，是不是能夠依照憲判字第20號的旨意可以讓廟方有權返還？本席這邊要請部長給予協助，讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮，可以嗎？部長。"],["林部長右昌：個案的部分我們個案來瞭解協助，好不好？所以我到時候請地政……"],["黃委員建賓：署長在點頭！"],["林部長右昌：跟他們沒有關係，那個是土地登記的問題，地政司。"],["黃委員建賓：所以這個請部長這邊來協助，可以嗎？"],["林部長右昌：沒有問題，我們會請地政司來個案瞭解協助。"],["黃委員建賓：感謝部長，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["黃委員建賓：報告主席，本席質詢完畢，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃建賓委員。","下一位張智倫委員請提出質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 496.374, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"賓\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 496.374, \"end\": 496.394, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,601 --> 00:00:16,784\n好,謝謝主席主席我們有請我們部長好,部長有請喔\n\n2\n00:00:24,269 --> 00:00:41,789\n部長早安部長呃同時我們的祖先齁無論是學生或是客家人齁早期這樣子翻山越嶺渡過黑水高來到這塊土地來生活其實最主要就是因為要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛是不是都是這樣\n\n3\n00:00:46,773 --> 00:00:53,176\n國民政府現在在臺灣的時候其實所做的也都是在做土地的改革不管是375或者是根本其他的這些事情那現在目前民進黨政府也在處理這個地的問題不管是種田還是開工業區不過那都是在跟人民搶地\n\n4\n00:01:11,886 --> 00:01:27,185\n不過博本席對於這一切的作為我一個支持的原因就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向有未來有前瞻所以國土計畫法的實施我想是可以讓台灣可以獲得永久發展的這個機會我想這方面是對的\n\n5\n00:01:29,648 --> 00:01:52,107\n不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後分三個階段第一個階段是在兩年內要公告實施全國國土計畫第二個階段是在第一階段公告三年內要公告我們縣市的國土計畫不過在這個公告之後發生很多的抗爭很多農民都要上街頭部長你知道發生什麼事嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:56,618 --> 00:02:19,205\n我想最主要是跟過去的一個使用的一個習慣跟認知這個有所一些這個意見那所以在這個第二階段這個縣市政府公告這個國土計畫分區之後大家看到那個圖然後這個了解到說好像他有一些疑問所以當然有一些澄清的這些問題出來\n\n7\n00:02:20,365 --> 00:02:37,012\n現在很多農民在這個第一階段那個國土一的那個土地公聽會就發現事業土地無意義的被劃做在國保一裡面他擔心他全地會受損嘛所以養眼要抗爭到底不過國保一的部分是他本來就是保育區的土地\n\n8\n00:02:37,532 --> 00:02:56,963\n是的,所以這個在劃定的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償的問題?要怎麼補償他們?委員這個有兩件事,第一個是他本來在非都市土地裡面,他就是保育區所以你去把他談到所謂的補償,這是可能不要這樣子談會比較適合因為他本來就是保育區\n\n9\n00:02:59,705 --> 00:03:21,534\n市長本席問的是說在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作的生活的人來講因為你頒布之後照顧的很像他還是可以使用的權益都一樣是不影響他原本的使用所以不影響了是不過他因為他本來就是保育區所以並不是說去剝奪他原本的使用他就算化成是那到現在還沒有爭議事件發生\n\n10\n00:03:23,054 --> 00:03:42,910\n現在當然陸陸續續當然會有我想那個國土署署長應該也常收到很多的澄清案對不對那我很有跟你報告的記錄這個是非常正常的因為我們在推理不要講說非都啦不要講說國土計畫其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面每次在檢討的時候都有很多的澄清案是對\n\n11\n00:03:44,147 --> 00:04:02,267\n所以部長本期想表達的是說我們在明年5月1號就要開始執行就要上路那在這麼多正義都還沒有得到民眾的能夠理解之前你這樣冒然的上路我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整情況這樣執行不然你不覺得這樣是\n\n12\n00:04:04,469 --> 00:04:33,163\n會造成更多的委員會報告剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面其實都有說過其實這個國土計畫法的一個訂定還有包括它實施的一個期程其實已經有一段時間所以並不是倉促上路那第二個當然它有許多的一個意見反映出來那我們就是針對這些意見把它一一的做彙整跟處理所以意見跟問題也在收斂我想這是一定的一個過程跟進展\n\n13\n00:04:39,808 --> 00:04:54,420\n國土計畫法是利益良善只在確保我們的國土安全保護我們的環境跟我們的自然還有我們的人文資產這個方向是對的但是因為它的配套措施不明這跟地方的事權不一導致民眾無所適從無頭蒼蠅\n\n14\n00:04:56,221 --> 00:05:10,747\n如果在明年的五一號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨所以具體建議應該延後上路等待配套完成再執行這個是陳廷飛委員所提到的其實部長\n\n15\n00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:29,364\n其實本席要求的跟陳林北委員的不太一樣其實我本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡再來實行這一塊部長請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過管制規則現在\n\n16\n00:05:39,821 --> 00:06:02,350\n兩個東西第一個國土計畫法已經頒布實施第二個管制規則現在我們擬定好現在正在進行預告的一個程序所以剛剛在講這個國土計畫的功能分區那個也是在整個的一個推動執行的一個程序裡面那個在前面現在管制一定會在前面所以何時能夠通過\n\n17\n00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:05,391\n所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金是不是?\n\n18\n00:06:30,751 --> 00:06:56,835\n那依照我們國土計畫法裡面第4條規定未來要有500億的基金那部長現在我們從2016年實行到現在我們基金多少了?300億現在有300億要不要給他補分的?他逐年補而且因為這個是他不是一下子全部用就如你剛剛講他有個案出來的時候會來做處理那部長如果補不滿的話未來是中央先電還是地方先電?\n\n19\n00:06:58,355 --> 00:07:22,580\n這是中央的部分最後我想再請教一下部長部長我們在內政部的報告裡面有提到這個透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定協助未登記工廠、住宿、寺廟、存有建物、租約、國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制這部分本席要給予肯定因為部長知道台東有一間廳後宮\n\n20\n00:07:25,090 --> 00:07:42,925\n臺東一般是臺東最早的寺廟也是臺東縣的宗教信仰的中心那非常的重要不過因為時空背景關係還有土地被國家散用去了後來在臺東縣政府記憶作為底下那成為臺東第一宗第一宗還地於廟的案例\n\n21\n00:07:43,826 --> 00:08:02,891\n不過現在還是有勢比的現有土地因為地方政府對法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還這部分廟方也跟北京這邊來陳請希望能夠請部長能夠派專員來協助不然這些土地從日本時代日治時代就是天后宮的也很早就有了\n\n22\n00:08:05,632 --> 00:08:14,772\n是依照我們的判決20號的這個執意會讓廟方有權返還那本期這邊邀請部長給予協助讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮可以嗎?部長\n\n23\n00:08:16,274 --> 00:08:16,394\n謝謝黃建賓委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13601\t16784\t好,謝謝主席主席我們有請我們部長好,部長有請喔\n24269\t41789\t部長早安 部長 呃 同時我們的祖先齁 無論是學生或是客家人齁 早期這樣子翻山越嶺 渡過黑水高來到這塊土地來生活 其實最主要就是因為要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛 是不是 都是這樣\n46773\t53176\t國民政府現在在臺灣的時候其實所做的也都是在做土地的改革不管是375或者是根本其他的這些事情那現在目前民進黨政府也在處理這個地的問題不管是種田還是開工業區不過那都是在跟人民搶地\n71886\t87185\t不過博本席對於這一切的作為我一個支持的原因就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向有未來有前瞻所以國土計畫法的實施我想是可以讓台灣可以獲得永久發展的這個機會我想這方面是對的\n89648\t112107\t不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後分三個階段第一個階段是在兩年內要公告實施全國國土計畫第二個階段是在第一階段公告三年內要公告我們縣市的國土計畫不過在這個公告之後發生很多的抗爭很多農民都要上街頭部長你知道發生什麼事嗎?\n116618\t139205\t我想最主要是跟過去的一個使用的一個習慣跟認知這個有所一些這個意見那所以在這個第二階段這個縣市政府公告這個國土計畫分區之後大家看到那個圖然後這個了解到說好像他有一些疑問所以當然有一些澄清的這些問題出來\n140365\t157012\t現在很多農民在這個第一階段那個國土一的那個土地公聽會就發現事業土地無意義的被劃做在國保一裡面他擔心他全地會受損嘛所以養眼要抗爭到底不過國保一的部分是他本來就是保育區的土地\n157532\t176963\t是的,所以這個在劃定的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償的問題?要怎麼補償他們?委員這個有兩件事,第一個是他本來在非都市土地裡面,他就是保育區所以你去把他談到所謂的補償,這是可能不要這樣子談會比較適合因為他本來就是保育區\n179705\t201534\t市長本席問的是說在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作的生活的人來講因為你頒布之後照顧的很像他還是可以使用的權益都一樣是不影響他原本的使用所以不影響了是不過他因為他本來就是保育區所以並不是說去剝奪他原本的使用他就算化成是那到現在還沒有爭議事件發生\n203054\t222910\t現在當然陸陸續續當然會有我想那個國土署署長應該也常收到很多的澄清案對不對那我很有跟你報告的記錄這個是非常正常的因為我們在推理不要講說非都啦不要講說國土計畫其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面每次在檢討的時候都有很多的澄清案是對\n224147\t242267\t所以部長本期想表達的是說我們在明年5月1號就要開始執行就要上路那在這麼多正義都還沒有得到民眾的能夠理解之前你這樣冒然的上路我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整情況這樣執行不然你不覺得這樣是\n244469\t273163\t會造成更多的委員會報告剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面其實都有說過其實這個國土計畫法的一個訂定還有包括它實施的一個期程其實已經有一段時間所以並不是倉促上路那第二個當然它有許多的一個意見反映出來那我們就是針對這些意見把它一一的做彙整跟處理所以意見跟問題也在收斂我想這是一定的一個過程跟進展\n279808\t294420\t國土計畫法是利益良善只在確保我們的國土安全保護我們的環境跟我們的自然還有我們的人文資產這個方向是對的但是因為它的配套措施不明這跟地方的事權不一導致民眾無所適從無頭蒼蠅\n296221\t310747\t如果在明年的五一號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨所以具體建議應該延後上路等待配套完成再執行這個是陳廷飛委員所提到的其實部長\n313950\t329364\t其實本席要求的跟陳林北委員的不太一樣其實我本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡再來實行這一塊部長請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過管制規則現在\n339821\t362350\t兩個東西第一個國土計畫法已經頒布實施第二個管制規則現在我們擬定好現在正在進行預告的一個程序所以剛剛在講這個國土計畫的功能分區那個也是在整個的一個推動執行的一個程序裡面那個在前面現在管制一定會在前面所以何時能夠通過\n363270\t365391\t所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金是不是?\n390751\t416835\t那依照我們國土計畫法裡面第4條規定未來要有500億的基金那部長現在我們從2016年實行到現在我們基金多少了?300億 現在有300億 要不要給他補分的?他逐年補而且因為這個是他不是一下子全部用就如你剛剛講他有個案出來的時候會來做處理那部長如果補不滿的話未來是中央先電還是地方先電?\n418355\t442580\t這是中央的部分最後我想再請教一下部長部長我們在內政部的報告裡面有提到這個透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定協助未登記工廠、住宿、寺廟、存有建物、租約、國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制這部分本席要給予肯定因為部長知道台東有一間廳後宮\n445090\t462925\t臺東一般是臺東最早的寺廟也是臺東縣的宗教信仰的中心那非常的重要不過因為時空背景關係還有土地被國家散用去了後來在臺東縣政府記憶作為底下那成為臺東第一宗第一宗還地於廟的案例\n463826\t482891\t不過現在還是有勢比的現有土地因為地方政府對法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還這部分廟方也跟北京這邊來陳請希望能夠請部長能夠派專員來協助不然這些土地從日本時代日治時代就是天后宮的也很早就有了\n485632\t494772\t是依照我們的判決20號的這個執意會讓廟方有權返還那本期這邊邀請部長給予協助讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮可以嗎?部長\n496274\t496394\t謝謝黃建賓委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席主席我們有請我們部長好,部長有請喔\n部長早安 部長 呃 同時我們的祖先齁 無論是學生或是客家人齁 早期這樣子翻山越嶺 渡過黑水高來到這塊土地來生活 其實最主要就是因為要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛 是不是 都是這樣\n國民政府現在在臺灣的時候其實所做的也都是在做土地的改革不管是375或者是根本其他的這些事情那現在目前民進黨政府也在處理這個地的問題不管是種田還是開工業區不過那都是在跟人民搶地\n不過博本席對於這一切的作為我一個支持的原因就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向有未來有前瞻所以國土計畫法的實施我想是可以讓台灣可以獲得永久發展的這個機會我想這方面是對的\n不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後分三個階段第一個階段是在兩年內要公告實施全國國土計畫第二個階段是在第一階段公告三年內要公告我們縣市的國土計畫不過在這個公告之後發生很多的抗爭很多農民都要上街頭部長你知道發生什麼事嗎?\n我想最主要是跟過去的一個使用的一個習慣跟認知這個有所一些這個意見那所以在這個第二階段這個縣市政府公告這個國土計畫分區之後大家看到那個圖然後這個了解到說好像他有一些疑問所以當然有一些澄清的這些問題出來\n現在很多農民在這個第一階段那個國土一的那個土地公聽會就發現事業土地無意義的被劃做在國保一裡面他擔心他全地會受損嘛所以養眼要抗爭到底不過國保一的部分是他本來就是保育區的土地\n是的,所以這個在劃定的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償的問題?要怎麼補償他們?委員這個有兩件事,第一個是他本來在非都市土地裡面,他就是保育區所以你去把他談到所謂的補償,這是可能不要這樣子談會比較適合因為他本來就是保育區\n市長本席問的是說在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作的生活的人來講因為你頒布之後照顧的很像他還是可以使用的權益都一樣是不影響他原本的使用所以不影響了是不過他因為他本來就是保育區所以並不是說去剝奪他原本的使用他就算化成是那到現在還沒有爭議事件發生\n現在當然陸陸續續當然會有我想那個國土署署長應該也常收到很多的澄清案對不對那我很有跟你報告的記錄這個是非常正常的因為我們在推理不要講說非都啦不要講說國土計畫其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面每次在檢討的時候都有很多的澄清案是對\n所以部長本期想表達的是說我們在明年5月1號就要開始執行就要上路那在這麼多正義都還沒有得到民眾的能夠理解之前你這樣冒然的上路我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整情況這樣執行不然你不覺得這樣是\n會造成更多的委員會報告剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面其實都有說過其實這個國土計畫法的一個訂定還有包括它實施的一個期程其實已經有一段時間所以並不是倉促上路那第二個當然它有許多的一個意見反映出來那我們就是針對這些意見把它一一的做彙整跟處理所以意見跟問題也在收斂我想這是一定的一個過程跟進展\n國土計畫法是利益良善只在確保我們的國土安全保護我們的環境跟我們的自然還有我們的人文資產這個方向是對的但是因為它的配套措施不明這跟地方的事權不一導致民眾無所適從無頭蒼蠅\n如果在明年的五一號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨所以具體建議應該延後上路等待配套完成再執行這個是陳廷飛委員所提到的其實部長\n其實本席要求的跟陳林北委員的不太一樣其實我本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡再來實行這一塊部長請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過管制規則現在\n兩個東西第一個國土計畫法已經頒布實施第二個管制規則現在我們擬定好現在正在進行預告的一個程序所以剛剛在講這個國土計畫的功能分區那個也是在整個的一個推動執行的一個程序裡面那個在前面現在管制一定會在前面所以何時能夠通過\n所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金是不是?\n那依照我們國土計畫法裡面第4條規定未來要有500億的基金那部長現在我們從2016年實行到現在我們基金多少了?300億 現在有300億 要不要給他補分的?他逐年補而且因為這個是他不是一下子全部用就如你剛剛講他有個案出來的時候會來做處理那部長如果補不滿的話未來是中央先電還是地方先電?\n這是中央的部分最後我想再請教一下部長部長我們在內政部的報告裡面有提到這個透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定協助未登記工廠、住宿、寺廟、存有建物、租約、國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制這部分本席要給予肯定因為部長知道台東有一間廳後宮\n臺東一般是臺東最早的寺廟也是臺東縣的宗教信仰的中心那非常的重要不過因為時空背景關係還有土地被國家散用去了後來在臺東縣政府記憶作為底下那成為臺東第一宗第一宗還地於廟的案例\n不過現在還是有勢比的現有土地因為地方政府對法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還這部分廟方也跟北京這邊來陳請希望能夠請部長能夠派專員來協助不然這些土地從日本時代日治時代就是天后宮的也很早就有了\n是依照我們的判決20號的這個執意會讓廟方有權返還那本期這邊邀請部長給予協助讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮可以嗎?部長\n謝謝黃建賓委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.601 --> 00:16.784\n好,謝謝主席主席我們有請我們部長好,部長有請喔\n\n00:24.269 --> 00:41.789\n部長早安部長呃同時我們的祖先齁無論是學生或是客家人齁早期這樣子翻山越嶺渡過黑水高來到這塊土地來生活其實最主要就是因為要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛是不是都是這樣\n\n00:46.773 --> 00:53.176\n國民政府現在在臺灣的時候其實所做的也都是在做土地的改革不管是375或者是根本其他的這些事情那現在目前民進黨政府也在處理這個地的問題不管是種田還是開工業區不過那都是在跟人民搶地\n\n01:11.886 --> 01:27.185\n不過博本席對於這一切的作為我一個支持的原因就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向有未來有前瞻所以國土計畫法的實施我想是可以讓台灣可以獲得永久發展的這個機會我想這方面是對的\n\n01:29.648 --> 01:52.107\n不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後分三個階段第一個階段是在兩年內要公告實施全國國土計畫第二個階段是在第一階段公告三年內要公告我們縣市的國土計畫不過在這個公告之後發生很多的抗爭很多農民都要上街頭部長你知道發生什麼事嗎?\n\n01:56.618 --> 02:19.205\n我想最主要是跟過去的一個使用的一個習慣跟認知這個有所一些這個意見那所以在這個第二階段這個縣市政府公告這個國土計畫分區之後大家看到那個圖然後這個了解到說好像他有一些疑問所以當然有一些澄清的這些問題出來\n\n02:20.365 --> 02:37.012\n現在很多農民在這個第一階段那個國土一的那個土地公聽會就發現事業土地無意義的被劃做在國保一裡面他擔心他全地會受損嘛所以養眼要抗爭到底不過國保一的部分是他本來就是保育區的土地\n\n02:37.532 --> 02:56.963\n是的,所以這個在劃定的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償的問題?要怎麼補償他們?委員這個有兩件事,第一個是他本來在非都市土地裡面,他就是保育區所以你去把他談到所謂的補償,這是可能不要這樣子談會比較適合因為他本來就是保育區\n\n02:59.705 --> 03:21.534\n市長本席問的是說在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作的生活的人來講因為你頒布之後照顧的很像他還是可以使用的權益都一樣是不影響他原本的使用所以不影響了是不過他因為他本來就是保育區所以並不是說去剝奪他原本的使用他就算化成是那到現在還沒有爭議事件發生\n\n03:23.054 --> 03:42.910\n現在當然陸陸續續當然會有我想那個國土署署長應該也常收到很多的澄清案對不對那我很有跟你報告的記錄這個是非常正常的因為我們在推理不要講說非都啦不要講說國土計畫其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面每次在檢討的時候都有很多的澄清案是對\n\n03:44.147 --> 04:02.267\n所以部長本期想表達的是說我們在明年5月1號就要開始執行就要上路那在這麼多正義都還沒有得到民眾的能夠理解之前你這樣冒然的上路我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整情況這樣執行不然你不覺得這樣是\n\n04:04.469 --> 04:33.163\n會造成更多的委員會報告剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面其實都有說過其實這個國土計畫法的一個訂定還有包括它實施的一個期程其實已經有一段時間所以並不是倉促上路那第二個當然它有許多的一個意見反映出來那我們就是針對這些意見把它一一的做彙整跟處理所以意見跟問題也在收斂我想這是一定的一個過程跟進展\n\n04:39.808 --> 04:54.420\n國土計畫法是利益良善只在確保我們的國土安全保護我們的環境跟我們的自然還有我們的人文資產這個方向是對的但是因為它的配套措施不明這跟地方的事權不一導致民眾無所適從無頭蒼蠅\n\n04:56.221 --> 05:10.747\n如果在明年的五一號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨所以具體建議應該延後上路等待配套完成再執行這個是陳廷飛委員所提到的其實部長\n\n05:13.950 --> 05:29.364\n其實本席要求的跟陳林北委員的不太一樣其實我本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡再來實行這一塊部長請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過管制規則現在\n\n05:39.821 --> 06:02.350\n兩個東西第一個國土計畫法已經頒布實施第二個管制規則現在我們擬定好現在正在進行預告的一個程序所以剛剛在講這個國土計畫的功能分區那個也是在整個的一個推動執行的一個程序裡面那個在前面現在管制一定會在前面所以何時能夠通過\n\n06:03.270 --> 06:05.391\n所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金是不是?\n\n06:30.751 --> 06:56.835\n那依照我們國土計畫法裡面第4條規定未來要有500億的基金那部長現在我們從2016年實行到現在我們基金多少了?300億現在有300億要不要給他補分的?他逐年補而且因為這個是他不是一下子全部用就如你剛剛講他有個案出來的時候會來做處理那部長如果補不滿的話未來是中央先電還是地方先電?\n\n06:58.355 --> 07:22.580\n這是中央的部分最後我想再請教一下部長部長我們在內政部的報告裡面有提到這個透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定協助未登記工廠、住宿、寺廟、存有建物、租約、國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制這部分本席要給予肯定因為部長知道台東有一間廳後宮\n\n07:25.090 --> 07:42.925\n臺東一般是臺東最早的寺廟也是臺東縣的宗教信仰的中心那非常的重要不過因為時空背景關係還有土地被國家散用去了後來在臺東縣政府記憶作為底下那成為臺東第一宗第一宗還地於廟的案例\n\n07:43.826 --> 08:02.891\n不過現在還是有勢比的現有土地因為地方政府對法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還這部分廟方也跟北京這邊來陳請希望能夠請部長能夠派專員來協助不然這些土地從日本時代日治時代就是天后宮的也很早就有了\n\n08:05.632 --> 08:14.772\n是依照我們的判決20號的這個執意會讓廟方有權返還那本期這邊邀請部長給予協助讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮可以嗎?部長\n\n08:16.274 --> 08:16.394\n謝謝黃建賓委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.601,"end":16.784,"text":"好,謝謝主席主席我們有請我們部長好,部長有請喔"},{"start":24.269,"end":41.789,"text":"部長早安 部長 呃 同時我們的祖先齁 無論是學生或是客家人齁 早期這樣子翻山越嶺 渡過黑水高來到這塊土地來生活 其實最主要就是因為要尋找一塊地可以養家嘛 是不是 都是這樣"},{"start":46.773,"end":53.176,"text":"國民政府現在在臺灣的時候其實所做的也都是在做土地的改革不管是375或者是根本其他的這些事情那現在目前民進黨政府也在處理這個地的問題不管是種田還是開工業區不過那都是在跟人民搶地"},{"start":71.886,"end":87.185,"text":"不過博本席對於這一切的作為我一個支持的原因就是因為希望讓這個國家未來有方向有未來有前瞻所以國土計畫法的實施我想是可以讓台灣可以獲得永久發展的這個機會我想這方面是對的"},{"start":89.648,"end":112.107,"text":"不過國土計畫法從2016年5月1號開始實施之後分三個階段第一個階段是在兩年內要公告實施全國國土計畫第二個階段是在第一階段公告三年內要公告我們縣市的國土計畫不過在這個公告之後發生很多的抗爭很多農民都要上街頭部長你知道發生什麼事嗎?"},{"start":116.618,"end":139.205,"text":"我想最主要是跟過去的一個使用的一個習慣跟認知這個有所一些這個意見那所以在這個第二階段這個縣市政府公告這個國土計畫分區之後大家看到那個圖然後這個了解到說好像他有一些疑問所以當然有一些澄清的這些問題出來"},{"start":140.365,"end":157.012,"text":"現在很多農民在這個第一階段那個國土一的那個土地公聽會就發現事業土地無意義的被劃做在國保一裡面他擔心他全地會受損嘛所以養眼要抗爭到底不過國保一的部分是他本來就是保育區的土地"},{"start":157.532,"end":176.963,"text":"是的,所以這個在劃定的過程裡面有沒有考慮到後續的賠償的問題?要怎麼補償他們?委員這個有兩件事,第一個是他本來在非都市土地裡面,他就是保育區所以你去把他談到所謂的補償,這是可能不要這樣子談會比較適合因為他本來就是保育區"},{"start":179.705,"end":201.534,"text":"市長本席問的是說在頒訂之前就已經在這塊土地耕作的生活的人來講因為你頒布之後照顧的很像他還是可以使用的權益都一樣是不影響他原本的使用所以不影響了是不過他因為他本來就是保育區所以並不是說去剝奪他原本的使用他就算化成是那到現在還沒有爭議事件發生"},{"start":203.054,"end":222.91,"text":"現在當然陸陸續續當然會有我想那個國土署署長應該也常收到很多的澄清案對不對那我很有跟你報告的記錄這個是非常正常的因為我們在推理不要講說非都啦不要講說國土計畫其實在一般的都市計畫區裡面每次在檢討的時候都有很多的澄清案是對"},{"start":224.147,"end":242.267,"text":"所以部長本期想表達的是說我們在明年5月1號就要開始執行就要上路那在這麼多正義都還沒有得到民眾的能夠理解之前你這樣冒然的上路我想在配套措施也都還沒有完整情況這樣執行不然你不覺得這樣是"},{"start":244.469,"end":273.163,"text":"會造成更多的委員會報告剛剛我們在書面或者是口頭報告裡面其實都有說過其實這個國土計畫法的一個訂定還有包括它實施的一個期程其實已經有一段時間所以並不是倉促上路那第二個當然它有許多的一個意見反映出來那我們就是針對這些意見把它一一的做彙整跟處理所以意見跟問題也在收斂我想這是一定的一個過程跟進展"},{"start":279.808,"end":294.42,"text":"國土計畫法是利益良善只在確保我們的國土安全保護我們的環境跟我們的自然還有我們的人文資產這個方向是對的但是因為它的配套措施不明這跟地方的事權不一導致民眾無所適從無頭蒼蠅"},{"start":296.221,"end":310.747,"text":"如果在明年的五一號草率上路恐怕引發更多的民怨所以具體建議應該延後上路等待配套完成再執行這個是陳廷飛委員所提到的其實部長"},{"start":313.95,"end":329.364,"text":"其實本席要求的跟陳林北委員的不太一樣其實我本席要求的其實是應該要先通過國土計畫土地使用管制規則你要讓民眾先知道自己的權利在哪裡再來實行這一塊部長請問這個規則什麼時候可以通過管制規則現在"},{"start":339.821,"end":362.35,"text":"兩個東西第一個國土計畫法已經頒布實施第二個管制規則現在我們擬定好現在正在進行預告的一個程序所以剛剛在講這個國土計畫的功能分區那個也是在整個的一個推動執行的一個程序裡面那個在前面現在管制一定會在前面所以何時能夠通過"},{"start":363.27,"end":365.391,"text":"所以成立一個叫做國土永續發展基金是不是?"},{"start":390.751,"end":416.835,"text":"那依照我們國土計畫法裡面第4條規定未來要有500億的基金那部長現在我們從2016年實行到現在我們基金多少了?300億 現在有300億 要不要給他補分的?他逐年補而且因為這個是他不是一下子全部用就如你剛剛講他有個案出來的時候會來做處理那部長如果補不滿的話未來是中央先電還是地方先電?"},{"start":418.355,"end":442.58,"text":"這是中央的部分最後我想再請教一下部長部長我們在內政部的報告裡面有提到這個透過計畫或擬定土地使用管制規定協助未登記工廠、住宿、寺廟、存有建物、租約、國有土地等既有土地使用輔導機制這部分本席要給予肯定因為部長知道台東有一間廳後宮"},{"start":445.09,"end":462.925,"text":"臺東一般是臺東最早的寺廟也是臺東縣的宗教信仰的中心那非常的重要不過因為時空背景關係還有土地被國家散用去了後來在臺東縣政府記憶作為底下那成為臺東第一宗第一宗還地於廟的案例"},{"start":463.826,"end":482.891,"text":"不過現在還是有勢比的現有土地因為地方政府對法規仍存有疑慮而尚未返還這部分廟方也跟北京這邊來陳請希望能夠請部長能夠派專員來協助不然這些土地從日本時代日治時代就是天后宮的也很早就有了"},{"start":485.632,"end":494.772,"text":"是依照我們的判決20號的這個執意會讓廟方有權返還那本期這邊邀請部長給予協助讓土地可以還給臺東天后宮可以嗎?部長"},{"start":496.274,"end":496.394,"text":"謝謝黃建賓委員"}]}}}}