{"id":150123,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150123","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192ac68629f341ba842753301a1aac7f2e9f8ba9b0039caa7a67aa36946618fe5905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"10:54:29 - 11:03:17","影片長度":"00:08:48","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":528,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:03:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:54:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":605,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（10時54分）主席、我們與會的同仁。請我們內政部部長。"],["主席：好，林部長有請。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長好。部長，早上大家都關心國土計畫法的實施日期，2015年12月國土計畫法在立法院通過，國土計畫造成民眾很多意見，過去又加上我們疫情期間3年的空窗期，本席提議是不是我們把它延長2年才來做實施的動作？因為這段空窗期，疫情期間大家都停擺，是不是請部長回答，還是署長回答？"],["林部長右昌：委員的意見我想我們尊重，不過，因為是依法法定的期程，所以我們相關計畫的程序，還有包括配套的子法部分，我們都依照既定的行程往前走，委員的意見我們予以尊重。"],["吳委員琪銘：好的。因為在我的選區，尤其三峽這個地方開了兩場協調會，當初的協調會是我們所有的農民都一致反對，大家的溝通、協調還不成熟，這樣貿然實施會造成全國很多農民，大家都是同樣的，他們的預期，還是沒辦法去接受，所以在這個部分，你貿然實施對全國農民的打擊會更大，所以本席今天提案延長2年，暫緩實施，看看能否取得大家的共識。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員。其實在三峽的那兩場我們也有關注他提出來的意見，包括不管三峽或是坪林這裡，大概有一些概念是一致的，就是過去在農業的部分有一些產製儲銷是不能放在一起的，所以導致很多農民有實際耕作，但是他要製茶也好，或是做其他的加工也好，他的土地都不能合法，他們更擔心如果併到國土計畫以後，是不是從此就沒有機會了？第二個，我以後本來有預期要被納到都市計畫，或是納到未來的開發區，會不會因為國土計畫發布以後就沒有了，這些都沒有了？其實是來自於這兩個最大的爭端。產製儲銷的部分，這兩年我們已經跟農業部都有溝通，慢慢他們也部分都已經同意來鬆綁，這其實對於未來的國土計畫在實施的時候，反而農民會得到比較大的改善，就是產製儲銷未來有機會可以合在一起。","再來，對於未來發展區的部分，因為我們基本上都有尊重地方，它如果有列入未來的城鄉發展區，或者說它是未來發展區的話，其實在國土計畫裡面，它是尊重，也就保留它還有一些機會。不過，就像委員所講的，突然聽會聽不懂，他需要更多的時間去溝通，讓他理解這件事情，就是第一個，權益沒有受損。第二個，過去有一些陳年的老問題沒解決的，我們協助來解決。第三個也保留它未來可以發展的機會。我想這些都是在這個過程當中，已經儘可能去做到這個發展的彈性，但是的確還需要更多時間讓民眾瞭解這樣的一個……"],["吳委員琪銘：因為現在農民所關心的，他們有很多農業加工以及農業設施，如果國土規劃貿然實施，你們跟農業部還要取得一個比較寬鬆的，不要影響到他們的現況，這樣他們接受度才會高，所以在未來，農業部這邊大家都還沒協調好，還有很多我們跨部會都要取得一個共識。再來最重要的是，我們農民要有共同的共識，然後你們來實施，對農民也好，對政府整個整體都是大大的加分，這是我們目前要做的，絕對不要說我們的行政單位就一直跑，過去制定我也知道是2015年那時候定案，我們的程序都照這樣走，但是現在瓶頸出來了，農民沒辦法接受，他們沒辦法接受，我們就是需要溝通，需要去做鬆綁的動作，這就是我們要取得共識，這點是本席的要求。"],["林部長右昌：是，我贊成委員剛剛所說明的，這需要更多的協調、努力和溝通，讓民眾能夠有更多的理解。其實也不單單是農民，最主要的民眾擔心的是，他現在的使用在未來能不能繼續使用；第二個是未來有沒有可能性，這點其實不用擔心，也是因為大家反映、陳情出來之後，我們行政部門、中央跟地方才有辦法針對這些問題去尋求、討論一個解套或者比較好的機制。比如剛剛在講，未來我們有國土功能分區的登記，會有一個證明，就這個證明，除了未來國土計畫實施之後的分區之外，它也會有現況的分區，所以不會影響到他現況的使用，這點可以放心。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，感謝部長的說明。請原住民族委員會。"],["主席：處長有請。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長先回座好了。"],["杜張處長梅莊：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：處長，針對我們土城，原住民生態公園現在已經都做好了，但是土城這個地方，尤其在新北市，我們需要原住民的一個聚會所。那邊是生態公園，生態公園是露天的，但是沒有一個聚會所，對新北市原住民的權益而言很不公平。我看原住民所舉辦的不管豐年祭還是什麼活動，都要去里那邊借活動中心，非常不方便。我們這個地方，三鶯地區的原住民聚集最多，聚會所的這部分，是不是請處長回答？"],["杜張梅莊處長：針對這個部分，我們會裡面在113年有推動建置原住民族族群主流化友善空間的計畫，剛剛委員提的這部分，我們會再選擇適當時間跟新北市政府去選擇一個適宜的地點來討論，如果有適宜地點的話，後續計畫看怎麼樣提出來促成，這個我們會帶回去給業務單位做依據來執行。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為在上一屆我就提出了，我們也要考慮到原住民在三鶯部落這個地方是人口最多，尤其在土城、樹林，推動原住民的聚會所有必然性，所以這個部分請中央一定要重視。"],["杜張處長梅莊：我們目前也是請地方政府進行土地撥用的事情。"],["吳委員琪銘：一定要積極，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘委員。","因為剛剛質詢順序有調換，所以本席裁示我們先處理臨時提案。現在請宣讀，今天有8個案子。","一、","有鑑「臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區」自民國93年4月8日獲行政院核定為國家重大建設計畫後，歷時多年召開專案小組會議，然多有議題重複討論或多次確認（如：說明計畫定位、地主意願與調查、農耕需求確認、計畫公益性必要性……等）；且，過往提報內政部審議資料及相關處理情形說明文件，須先函報中央相關部會（如：農業部、交通部、經濟部、客委會、地政司等）確認修正情形，並俟確認後方能召開審議，審議過程已徵詢意見並獲共識，又再函詢，過程又再衍生新的不同意見，致國家重大建設計畫一直延宕未決，地方民眾積極關心此案，實有必要加速推進。又，新竹縣政府已於今年1月依專案小組第13次會議紀錄提交「臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區」修正計畫書及補充文件，爰提案要求內政部於二個月內邀集相關部會審議，並於會議中針對意見提出討論與回應，俾加速此案審議進度。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　許宇甄　　牛煦庭","二、","案由：","國土計畫法第45條規定，中央主管機關應於本法施行後二年內，公告實施全國國土計畫。直轄市、縣（市）主管機關應於全國國土計畫公告實施後三年內，依中央主管機關指定之日期，一併公告實施直轄市、（市）國土計畫；並於直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫公告實施後四年內，依中央主管機關指定之目期，一併公告國土功能分區圖。綜上，國土計畫最遲應在114年4月30日前完成公告，又地方政府須在今年6月底前，將縣市國土功能分區圖提交內政部。惟直至113年3月15日止，僅有連江縣、金門縣及花蓮縣等3縣政府提送國土功能分區圖草案至內政部進行審議。為加強新制國土計畫之民眾參與，避免計畫草率上路引起民怨，爰此，建請內政部及國土管理署積極協助各地方縣（市）政府，並加強與地方民眾之協調與溝通。","提案人：王美惠　　黃　捷　　李柏毅","三、","關於內政部擬議「社會住宅租金分級收費原則」，為保障人民權益與社會住宅建置的立意，租金優惠的認定標準，應採身分別與所得別雙軌並行兼顧的做法。另外，為保障現租戶的權益，租金分級收費優惠實施後，對於現住戶應一體適用。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　許宇甄　　牛煦庭","四、","案由：鑑於民國一百零五年十二月二十三日修正之住宅法第二十五條第三項規定：「社會住宅承租者之租金計算，中央主管機關應斟酌承租者所得狀況、負擔能力及市場行情，訂定分級收費原則，並定期檢討之。」復所謂「分級收費」，係指依據承租人不同之經濟量能，於其可負擔之程度予以分級訂定房屋租金，此觀當時附帶決議要求承租住宅之租金應該再依據承租戶之所得水準再給予分級至明。同法第四條第二項雖有列舉「經濟或社會弱勢者身分」之種類，然其僅涉及入住社會住宅之優先性，而與租金多寡分屬二事。惟查目前內政部仍擬採「身分別市價打折」方式訂定「社會住宅租金分級收費原則」（下稱分級收費原則），核已嚴重違背當初立法本意，況臺北市、桃園市、新北市皆已先後採行依收入作為社宅租金計價方式。考量分級收費原則將拘束全國社會住宅租金之訂定方向，影響甚鉅，爰提案要求內政部依上開立法意旨妥為訂定分級收費原則，並應於二周內以書面方式提交進度報告予本案提案委員。","提案人：牛煦庭　　黃珊珊　　徐巧芯　　黃國昌　　徐欣瑩　　許宇甄　　張智倫","五、","2021年《住宅法》第25條修正，明訂「社會住宅承租者之租金計算，中央主管機關應斟酌承租者所得狀況、負擔能力及市場行情，訂定分級收費原則，並定期檢討之。」且該次修法附帶決議中明確要求「訂定租金之收費基準時應考量承租者收入上限」。","興建社會住宅的目的是為了讓有需求的民眾「住得起」，因此以「收入」做為衡量標準，分成不同收費級距，來確保租金不會超過收入其合理支付能力。","《住宅法》修正至今將近三年，內政部堅持採「身分別」而非「收入分級」計算社宅租金，與地方政府多次研商未取得共識。而由於中央興辦社宅將陸續完工，2024年2月21日，內政部邀集地方政府召開「社會住宅租金分級收費原則（草案）」研商會議，決議以「身分別市價打折」作為社宅租金收費標準，並預計於2024下半年實施。","以身分別作為收費標準，將難以顧及低薪青年與邊緣弱勢，也將造成臺北市、新北市，桃園市三個採「依收入分級租金」縣市一市兩制，更違反2021年《住宅法》25條修法意旨。","為落實2021年《住宅法》25條立法意旨，讓民眾「住得起」，建請內政部「依收入分級租金」作為社宅收費標準，並於一個月內將辦理情形送交內政委員會。","提案人：黃珊珊　　黃國昌　　牛煦庭　　徐欣瑩　　張智倫","六、","國土計畫法自105年5月1日施行至今，內政部偕同直轄市，縣（市）政府持續推動國土計畫相關工作，已公告實施全國國土計畫及直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫；目前為國土功能分區圖繪製階段，各縣市政府雖已完成國土功能分區圖草案繪製及公開展覽作業，惟大多數正由各該國土計畫審議會審議中，截至113年3月15日，僅有連江縣、金門縣及花連縣等3縣政府提送國土功能分區圖草案至內政部進行審議。","為尊重原住民族土地傳統文化，內政部於全國國土計畫載明原住民族土地相關規劃原則及特殊國土功能分區劃設條件（農4（原）），並自110年起專案補助原鄉縣市政府辦理原住民族部落環境基本調查、部落溝通及國土功能分區劃設作業，並會同原住民族委員會研訂完成「原住民族土地使用管制規則（草案）」。","惟部落族人對於國土計畫是否能協助既有土地、建物合法，同時滿足部落未來居住及產業發展的需求仍有疑問，各縣市政府雖已於部落召開多場說明會，但多數族人仍表達政府應加強國土計畫制度與規定的說明與溝通；考量國土計畫為部落多年來少有的土地管理制度變革，自應讓部落族人有更多的了解及參與，爰要求內政部及原住民族委員會應加強與部落的溝通及正確資訊的傳達，以取得族人共識及了解。","提案人：吳琪銘　　蘇巧慧　　黃　捷　　李柏毅　　張宏陸　　王美惠","七、","國土計畫法自105年5月1日施行至今，內政部偕同直轄市、縣（市）政府持續推動國土計畫相關工作，已公告實施全國國土計畫及直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫；目前為國土功能分區圖繪製階段，各縣市政府雖已完成國土功能分區圖草案繪製及公開展覽作業，惟大多數正由各該國土計畫審議會審議中，截至113年3月15日，僅有連江縣、金門縣及花蓮縣等3縣政府提送國土功能分區圖草案至內政部進行審議。","其中國土保育地區之劃設條件係參考既有目的事業法規所劃設之保護（育）區域，例如保安林、國有林事業區、河川區域、飲用水水源水質保護區等環境敏感圖資，惟縣市政府於繪製及審議過程持續接獲民眾陳情，部分圖資因精度不一且年代久遠與現況不符；此外，民眾不了解國土保育地區得否繼續從事經營農業或建築使用，擔心國土計畫一旦正式實施，既有合法權益將受損，以致人心惶惶。為使國土計畫順利施行，內政部應持續積極與各界溝通國土計畫之制度與相關規定，增進民眾了解及傳達正確資訊，以獲取社會共識及多數民眾理解，以利後續國土計畫之推動及施行。","提案人：吳琪銘　　蘇巧慧　　黃　捷　　李柏毅　　張宏陸　　王美惠","八、","國土計畫法自105年5月1日施行至今，內政部偕同直轄市、縣（市）政府持續推動國土計畫相關工作，已公告實施全國國土計畫及直轄市、縣（市）國土計畫；目前為國土功能分區圖繪製階段，各縣市政府雖已完成國土功能分區圖草案繪製及公開展覽作業，惟大多數正由各該國土計畫審議會審議中，截至113年3月15日，僅有連江縣、金門縣及花蓮縣等3縣政府提送國土功能分區圖草案至內政部進行審議。","其中農業發展地區係依照內政部及農業部所討論之通案性劃設條件劃設，再由縣市政府農業單位檢視劃設成果；惟查部分縣市依照通案性劃設條件，劃設大量第一類、第二類農業發展地區，除縣市政府認為會影響該縣市長遠發展，過程中亦多有接獲民眾陳情，認為農業發展地區與現況農業使用範圍有所出入，且未來農地無法變更為建築用地將影響農地價格及農民權益。因農地管制政策影響廣大農民權益，內政部應持續積極與各界溝通、加強說明，以獲取社會共識及多數民眾理解，以利後續國土計畫之推動及施行。","提案人：吳琪銘　　蘇巧慧　　黃　捷　　李柏毅　　張宏陸　　王美惠"],["主席：經過內政部跟各提案委員溝通，沒有任何文字修正，所以第1案至第8案我們就照案通過，請問在場委員有沒有意見？（無）沒有，我們通過，謝謝。","現在繼續質詢。接下來有請鍾佳濱委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:49,011\n因為在我的選區尤其三峽這個地方開了兩場協調會那當初的協調會是我們所有的農民他們都一致的反對\n\n7\n00:01:50,012 --> 00:01:50,032\n吳琪銘議員\n\n8\n00:02:14,170 --> 00:02:15,812\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n9\n00:02:27,332 --> 00:02:53,004\n感謝委員：其實在三峽的那兩場其實我們也有關注他提出來的意見：包括不管山腳還是我們北南這裡大概有一些概念是一致就過去在農業的部分有一些產製除銷是不能放在一起的所以導致很多農民我實際工作但是我要做地也好還是我要去做其他的工廠也好他的土地都不能合法\n\n10\n00:02:53,604 --> 00:03:20,947\n他們更擔心說我如果併到國土計畫以後是不是從此就沒有機會了那第二個就是說我以後本來有預期要被納到都市計畫或是納到這個未來的開發區的那會不會因為國土計畫發布以後就沒有了這些都沒有了其實來自於這兩個最大的爭端那產製除消的部分我們已經跟這兩年跟農委會跟農業部都有溝通慢慢他們也在部分都已經\n\n11\n00:03:23,228 --> 00:03:49,105\n對於未來的國土計畫在實施的時候反而農民會得到比較大的改善就產製除消未來有機會可以合在一起第二個就是說對於未來發展區的部分因為這個我們基本上都有尊重地方他如果有列入未來的城鄉發展區或是說他是未來發展區的話其實在國土計畫裡面他是尊重的就保留他還有一些機會不過就像委員所講的\n\n12\n00:03:52,788 --> 00:04:09,117\n他需要更多的時間去溝通讓他理解這件事情就第一個權益沒有受損第二個過去有一些陳年的老問題沒解決了我們來協助來解決第三個也保留他未來可以發展的機會我想這些都是\n\n13\n00:04:09,837 --> 00:04:29,057\n在這過往都已經盡可能去做到這個發展的彈性但是的確還需要更多時間讓民眾了解這樣的一個因為現在農民受關心的有很多人我們的農業加工以及農業設施你國土規劃你貿然實施你跟農業部大家還要取得一個\n\n14\n00:04:29,657 --> 00:04:30,197\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n15\n00:04:57,032 --> 00:04:57,152\n委員會主任\n\n16\n00:05:13,806 --> 00:05:13,846\n主席\n\n17\n00:05:31,991 --> 00:06:01,711\n我贊成委員剛才說說明的就是其實這需要更多的一個協調努力跟溝通讓民眾能夠更多的一個理解其實也不單單是農民最主要是由民眾他擔心的是他現在的使用在未來能不能繼續使用第二個是他有沒有未來的可能性這一點其實不用擔心也是因為大家的歡迎陳情出來之後我們行政部門、中央跟地方才有辦法\n\n18\n00:06:02,531 --> 00:06:15,442\n對這些問題去尋求討論一個解套或者是一個比較好的一個機制比如說像剛剛在講未來我們會有一個國土功能分區的登記這個證明書會有一個證明\n\n19\n00:06:19,004 --> 00:06:43,236\n這證明除了未來國土計畫實施之後的分區之外呢﹐它也會有現在現況的分區﹐所以不會影響到它在現況的使用。這點可以放心。好,謝謝。感謝部長、社民、謝謝。我請我們的原住民委員會。好,署長有請喔。好,那部長你先回座好了。\n\n20\n00:06:49,144 --> 00:06:49,404\n委員吳琪銘議員\n\n21\n00:07:08,402 --> 00:07:34,590\n因為現在因為原住民那邊是一個生態公園生態公園他是露天的但是你沒一個紀委所對我們新北市原住民他的這個權益是很不公平所以我說我們原住民所基本的不管方圓寺什麼都要去打我們的綠洲活動中心非常地不方便所以說在我們這個\n\n22\n00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:51,795\n所在山陰地區是我們原住民祭祀最多的是不是我們的紀委所這個部分請我們處長回答好,針對這個部分我們會裡面在113年有推動這個建制原住民族\n\n23\n00:07:52,435 --> 00:08:04,283\n主行主流化友善空間的計畫剛委員提了這部分我們會再選擇一個適當的時間跟新北市政府去選擇一個適宜的地點來討論如果有適宜的地點的話後續的計畫看怎麼樣提出來促成這個我們會待會去給業務單位來做一個依據來做執行\n\n24\n00:08:13,956 --> 00:08:41,362\n因為我在上一屆我就提出了所以我們要考慮到我們原住民在山林部落這個地方是人口最多尤其在土層、樹林所以推動原住民的紀委所是一個必然性所以在這個部分請我們中央一定要重視我們目前也是請地方政府來進行博用的事情土地博用的事情一定要積極好不好好謝謝\n\n25\n00:08:47,117 --> 00:08:47,137\n謝謝吳琪銘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n578\t1498\t主席、議會同仁、內政部部長\n22484\t22785\t國土計畫法 國土計畫法 國土計畫法\n41964\t55497\t這造成民眾很多的意見這過去又加上我們的疫情期間的三年的空窗期那本席的提議是不是我們把它延長\n57594\t57614\t吳琪銘議員\n74727\t92592\t委員的意見我想我們尊重不過因為是依法然後這個法定的一個期程所以我們相關的一個計畫的程序還有包括配套的執法的部分我們都依照既定的行程往前走那委員的意見我們予以尊重\n94277\t109011\t因為在我的選區尤其三峽這個地方開了兩場協調會那當初的協調會是我們所有的農民他們都一致的反對\n110012\t110032\t吳琪銘議員\n134170\t135812\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n147332\t173004\t感謝委員：其實在三峽的那兩場其實我們也有關注他提出來的意見：包括不管山腳還是我們北南這裡大概有一些概念是一致就過去在農業的部分有一些產製除銷是不能放在一起的所以導致很多農民我實際工作但是我要做地也好還是我要去做其他的工廠也好他的土地都不能合法\n173604\t200947\t他們更擔心說我如果併到國土計畫以後是不是從此就沒有機會了那第二個就是說我以後本來有預期要被納到都市計畫或是納到這個未來的開發區的那會不會因為國土計畫發布以後就沒有了這些都沒有了其實來自於這兩個最大的爭端那產製除消的部分我們已經跟這兩年跟農委會跟農業部都有溝通慢慢他們也在部分都已經\n203228\t229105\t對於未來的國土計畫在實施的時候反而農民會得到比較大的改善就產製除消未來有機會可以合在一起第二個就是說對於未來發展區的部分因為這個我們基本上都有尊重地方他如果有列入未來的城鄉發展區或是說他是未來發展區的話其實在國土計畫裡面他是尊重的就保留他還有一些機會不過就像委員所講的\n232788\t249117\t他需要更多的時間去溝通讓他理解這件事情就第一個權益沒有受損第二個過去有一些陳年的老問題沒解決了我們來協助來解決第三個也保留他未來可以發展的機會我想這些都是\n249837\t269057\t在這過往都已經盡可能去做到這個發展的彈性但是的確還需要更多時間讓民眾了解這樣的一個因為現在農民受關心的有很多人我們的農業加工以及農業設施你國土規劃你貿然實施你跟農業部大家還要取得一個\n269657\t270197\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n297032\t297152\t委員會主任\n313806\t313846\t主席\n331991\t361711\t我贊成委員剛才說說明的就是其實這需要更多的一個協調努力跟溝通讓民眾能夠更多的一個理解其實也不單單是農民最主要是由民眾他擔心的是他現在的使用在未來能不能繼續使用第二個是他有沒有未來的可能性這一點其實不用擔心也是因為大家的歡迎陳情出來之後我們行政部門、中央跟地方才有辦法\n362531\t375442\t對這些問題去尋求討論一個解套或者是一個比較好的一個機制比如說像剛剛在講未來我們會有一個國土功能分區的登記這個證明書會有一個證明\n379004\t403236\t這證明除了未來國土計畫實施之後的分區之外呢﹐它也會有現在現況的分區﹐所以不會影響到它在現況的使用。這點可以放心。好,謝謝。感謝部長、社民、謝謝。我請我們的原住民委員會。好,署長有請喔。好,那部長你先回座好了。\n409144\t409404\t委員吳琪銘議員\n428402\t454590\t因為現在因為原住民那邊是一個生態公園生態公園他是露天的但是你沒一個紀委所對我們新北市原住民他的這個權益是很不公平所以我說我們原住民所基本的不管方圓寺什麼都要去打我們的綠洲活動中心非常地不方便所以說在我們這個\n456190\t471795\t所在山陰地區是我們原住民祭祀最多的是不是我們的紀委所這個部分請我們處長回答好,針對這個部分我們會裡面在113年有推動這個建制原住民族\n472435\t484283\t主行主流化友善空間的計畫剛委員提了這部分我們會再選擇一個適當的時間跟新北市政府去選擇一個適宜的地點來討論如果有適宜的地點的話後續的計畫看怎麼樣提出來促成這個我們會待會去給業務單位來做一個依據來做執行\n493956\t521362\t因為我在上一屆我就提出了所以我們要考慮到我們原住民在山林部落這個地方是人口最多尤其在土層、樹林所以推動原住民的紀委所是一個必然性所以在這個部分請我們中央一定要重視我們目前也是請地方政府來進行博用的事情土地博用的事情一定要積極好不好好謝謝\n527117\t527137\t謝謝吳琪銘\n","txt":"主席、議會同仁、內政部部長\n國土計畫法 國土計畫法 國土計畫法\n這造成民眾很多的意見這過去又加上我們的疫情期間的三年的空窗期那本席的提議是不是我們把它延長\n吳琪銘議員\n委員的意見我想我們尊重不過因為是依法然後這個法定的一個期程所以我們相關的一個計畫的程序還有包括配套的執法的部分我們都依照既定的行程往前走那委員的意見我們予以尊重\n因為在我的選區尤其三峽這個地方開了兩場協調會那當初的協調會是我們所有的農民他們都一致的反對\n吳琪銘議員\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n感謝委員：其實在三峽的那兩場其實我們也有關注他提出來的意見：包括不管山腳還是我們北南這裡大概有一些概念是一致就過去在農業的部分有一些產製除銷是不能放在一起的所以導致很多農民我實際工作但是我要做地也好還是我要去做其他的工廠也好他的土地都不能合法\n他們更擔心說我如果併到國土計畫以後是不是從此就沒有機會了那第二個就是說我以後本來有預期要被納到都市計畫或是納到這個未來的開發區的那會不會因為國土計畫發布以後就沒有了這些都沒有了其實來自於這兩個最大的爭端那產製除消的部分我們已經跟這兩年跟農委會跟農業部都有溝通慢慢他們也在部分都已經\n對於未來的國土計畫在實施的時候反而農民會得到比較大的改善就產製除消未來有機會可以合在一起第二個就是說對於未來發展區的部分因為這個我們基本上都有尊重地方他如果有列入未來的城鄉發展區或是說他是未來發展區的話其實在國土計畫裡面他是尊重的就保留他還有一些機會不過就像委員所講的\n他需要更多的時間去溝通讓他理解這件事情就第一個權益沒有受損第二個過去有一些陳年的老問題沒解決了我們來協助來解決第三個也保留他未來可以發展的機會我想這些都是\n在這過往都已經盡可能去做到這個發展的彈性但是的確還需要更多時間讓民眾了解這樣的一個因為現在農民受關心的有很多人我們的農業加工以及農業設施你國土規劃你貿然實施你跟農業部大家還要取得一個\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n委員會主任\n主席\n我贊成委員剛才說說明的就是其實這需要更多的一個協調努力跟溝通讓民眾能夠更多的一個理解其實也不單單是農民最主要是由民眾他擔心的是他現在的使用在未來能不能繼續使用第二個是他有沒有未來的可能性這一點其實不用擔心也是因為大家的歡迎陳情出來之後我們行政部門、中央跟地方才有辦法\n對這些問題去尋求討論一個解套或者是一個比較好的一個機制比如說像剛剛在講未來我們會有一個國土功能分區的登記這個證明書會有一個證明\n這證明除了未來國土計畫實施之後的分區之外呢﹐它也會有現在現況的分區﹐所以不會影響到它在現況的使用。這點可以放心。好,謝謝。感謝部長、社民、謝謝。我請我們的原住民委員會。好,署長有請喔。好,那部長你先回座好了。\n委員吳琪銘議員\n因為現在因為原住民那邊是一個生態公園生態公園他是露天的但是你沒一個紀委所對我們新北市原住民他的這個權益是很不公平所以我說我們原住民所基本的不管方圓寺什麼都要去打我們的綠洲活動中心非常地不方便所以說在我們這個\n所在山陰地區是我們原住民祭祀最多的是不是我們的紀委所這個部分請我們處長回答好,針對這個部分我們會裡面在113年有推動這個建制原住民族\n主行主流化友善空間的計畫剛委員提了這部分我們會再選擇一個適當的時間跟新北市政府去選擇一個適宜的地點來討論如果有適宜的地點的話後續的計畫看怎麼樣提出來促成這個我們會待會去給業務單位來做一個依據來做執行\n因為我在上一屆我就提出了所以我們要考慮到我們原住民在山林部落這個地方是人口最多尤其在土層、樹林所以推動原住民的紀委所是一個必然性所以在這個部分請我們中央一定要重視我們目前也是請地方政府來進行博用的事情土地博用的事情一定要積極好不好好謝謝\n謝謝吳琪銘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.578 --> 00:01.498\n主席、議會同仁、內政部部長\n\n00:22.484 --> 00:22.785\n國土計畫法國土計畫法國土計畫法\n\n00:41.964 --> 00:55.497\n這造成民眾很多的意見這過去又加上我們的疫情期間的三年的空窗期那本席的提議是不是我們把它延長\n\n00:57.594 --> 00:57.614\n吳琪銘議員\n\n01:14.727 --> 01:32.592\n委員的意見我想我們尊重不過因為是依法然後這個法定的一個期程所以我們相關的一個計畫的程序還有包括配套的執法的部分我們都依照既定的行程往前走那委員的意見我們予以尊重\n\n01:34.277 --> 01:49.011\n因為在我的選區尤其三峽這個地方開了兩場協調會那當初的協調會是我們所有的農民他們都一致的反對\n\n01:50.012 --> 01:50.032\n吳琪銘議員\n\n02:14.170 --> 02:15.812\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n02:27.332 --> 02:53.004\n感謝委員：其實在三峽的那兩場其實我們也有關注他提出來的意見：包括不管山腳還是我們北南這裡大概有一些概念是一致就過去在農業的部分有一些產製除銷是不能放在一起的所以導致很多農民我實際工作但是我要做地也好還是我要去做其他的工廠也好他的土地都不能合法\n\n02:53.604 --> 03:20.947\n他們更擔心說我如果併到國土計畫以後是不是從此就沒有機會了那第二個就是說我以後本來有預期要被納到都市計畫或是納到這個未來的開發區的那會不會因為國土計畫發布以後就沒有了這些都沒有了其實來自於這兩個最大的爭端那產製除消的部分我們已經跟這兩年跟農委會跟農業部都有溝通慢慢他們也在部分都已經\n\n03:23.228 --> 03:49.105\n對於未來的國土計畫在實施的時候反而農民會得到比較大的改善就產製除消未來有機會可以合在一起第二個就是說對於未來發展區的部分因為這個我們基本上都有尊重地方他如果有列入未來的城鄉發展區或是說他是未來發展區的話其實在國土計畫裡面他是尊重的就保留他還有一些機會不過就像委員所講的\n\n03:52.788 --> 04:09.117\n他需要更多的時間去溝通讓他理解這件事情就第一個權益沒有受損第二個過去有一些陳年的老問題沒解決了我們來協助來解決第三個也保留他未來可以發展的機會我想這些都是\n\n04:09.837 --> 04:29.057\n在這過往都已經盡可能去做到這個發展的彈性但是的確還需要更多時間讓民眾了解這樣的一個因為現在農民受關心的有很多人我們的農業加工以及農業設施你國土規劃你貿然實施你跟農業部大家還要取得一個\n\n04:29.657 --> 04:30.197\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n04:57.032 --> 04:57.152\n委員會主任\n\n05:13.806 --> 05:13.846\n主席\n\n05:31.991 --> 06:01.711\n我贊成委員剛才說說明的就是其實這需要更多的一個協調努力跟溝通讓民眾能夠更多的一個理解其實也不單單是農民最主要是由民眾他擔心的是他現在的使用在未來能不能繼續使用第二個是他有沒有未來的可能性這一點其實不用擔心也是因為大家的歡迎陳情出來之後我們行政部門、中央跟地方才有辦法\n\n06:02.531 --> 06:15.442\n對這些問題去尋求討論一個解套或者是一個比較好的一個機制比如說像剛剛在講未來我們會有一個國土功能分區的登記這個證明書會有一個證明\n\n06:19.004 --> 06:43.236\n這證明除了未來國土計畫實施之後的分區之外呢﹐它也會有現在現況的分區﹐所以不會影響到它在現況的使用。這點可以放心。好,謝謝。感謝部長、社民、謝謝。我請我們的原住民委員會。好,署長有請喔。好,那部長你先回座好了。\n\n06:49.144 --> 06:49.404\n委員吳琪銘議員\n\n07:08.402 --> 07:34.590\n因為現在因為原住民那邊是一個生態公園生態公園他是露天的但是你沒一個紀委所對我們新北市原住民他的這個權益是很不公平所以我說我們原住民所基本的不管方圓寺什麼都要去打我們的綠洲活動中心非常地不方便所以說在我們這個\n\n07:36.190 --> 07:51.795\n所在山陰地區是我們原住民祭祀最多的是不是我們的紀委所這個部分請我們處長回答好,針對這個部分我們會裡面在113年有推動這個建制原住民族\n\n07:52.435 --> 08:04.283\n主行主流化友善空間的計畫剛委員提了這部分我們會再選擇一個適當的時間跟新北市政府去選擇一個適宜的地點來討論如果有適宜的地點的話後續的計畫看怎麼樣提出來促成這個我們會待會去給業務單位來做一個依據來做執行\n\n08:13.956 --> 08:41.362\n因為我在上一屆我就提出了所以我們要考慮到我們原住民在山林部落這個地方是人口最多尤其在土層、樹林所以推動原住民的紀委所是一個必然性所以在這個部分請我們中央一定要重視我們目前也是請地方政府來進行博用的事情土地博用的事情一定要積極好不好好謝謝\n\n08:47.117 --> 08:47.137\n謝謝吳琪銘\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.578,"end":1.498,"text":"主席、議會同仁、內政部部長"},{"start":22.484,"end":22.785,"text":"國土計畫法 國土計畫法 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