{"id":150124,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150124","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f19234d6d95ca7577735135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a6c4fb32c93a0cb95a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:50:15 - 11:05:13","影片長度":"00:14:58","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":898,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:05:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:50:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":431,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時50分）謝謝主席，麻煩請吳部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：馬委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長好。在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到你在選後就會卸任，我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作，可是就這個部分，因為我們在這麼長的時間以來在外交上面臨很多的困境，就像部長講的，你在3月份春酒聯誼晚會的時候也提到，其實臺灣的外交部長不好做，我們所有的外交同仁都一樣，我們面臨的這些困境其實長期以來一直都存在，所以大家要付出很多，可是相對的你說總統大概不喜歡你，所以還讓你當那麼久，因為是民選……"],["吳部長釗燮：那純粹是開玩笑的。"],["馬委員文君：對，自1996年民選總統以後，其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的人，當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑，可能蔡總統是非常倚重你，可是因為我們在這8年裡面丟失了10個邦交國，在邦交國一直失去的情況之下，我們從22個到現在只剩下12個，可是我們在業務報告裡面也沒有看到，對於邦交國其實著墨甚少，反而是有很多其他的國家，不管是美國、日本、歐洲還有澳洲等等，甚至像捷克這些國家。我們在這幾年雖然失去了很多邦交國，可是我們的預算在2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經高達310幾億，就這樣子的權衡，我們到底獲得了什麼？失去了什麼？這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法？我們對我們的外交到底增加了什麼？因為我們看不出來，現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高，對於美國或其他國家來講，他們最大的考量點還是他們國家本身的利益。","就這些部分，我想因為亞洲各國在過去40年當中整體的經濟成長是創歷史新高，而且亞洲的興起也增長了經濟的發展，它占了全球高達60%以上，所以美國朝野或者其他國家其實也相對認為我們亞洲現在的和平穩定，因為在過去就是和平穩定所以才可以創造這樣的經濟成長，現在如果亞洲發生什麼樣的動盪，對他們整體的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的，我想這才是他們最主要的考量，當然臺海的穩定、臺灣的安全或者我們的民主發展可能也是他們想要守護的，可是絕對不是第一，所以就這樣的部分，我們的預算越編越多，可是我們的邦交國一直流失，在這樣的情況之下，我們有一個什麼樣的平衡權重？部長是不是可以做比較簡單的說明？因為我們從業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點，而都只是過去的成果而已。"],["吳部長釗燮：是，非常謝謝委員剛剛的垂詢，如果要講到這個部分的話，我們的確是要從比較寬廣的角度來思考，就是中國給我們很大的壓力，不管是在軍事上、經濟上、外交上等等，這個壓力很大，那在這個龐大的壓力之下，我們就必須要去做好我們的戰略規劃，我們戰略的規劃就是那些最可能支持我們、最重要的民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的對象。其次也就是邦交國，他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的，所以我們也要全力去捍衛。另外，我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話、可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友，比如說中東歐的這些國家，所以這個是我們整體的戰略思考，也因此如果說看我們雖然有喪失了幾個邦交國，可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法，目前仍然保持相當正面的狀況之下，我想我們的外交戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定。"],["馬委員文君：部長，雖然這樣的說法四平八穩，可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下，我們也很怕骨牌效應越來越迅速。其實剛剛我們提到的，有很多我們用力很深的這些國家，其實他們不管在一些國際組織，或者有的應該幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下，他們從來沒有幫我們講過話，就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面，其實他們沒有這麼做，他們都是在平常的情況之下，大概在這個部分會支持我們，可是在正式的場合、國際場合裡面從來沒有，反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案、幫我們發言的越來越少了，所以就這些部分，為什麼要特別提到這個？美國今年又要大選，所以川普或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選，尤其是川普，因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係，基本上好像是還不錯，就他的言論，包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候，他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候，美國會提供援助，可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額，甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行財政責任的成員國（即北約）表明，如果他們沒有履行足夠財務的合理份額的話，他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家，美國不會協防，以川普這樣的說法，包括過去他在任的時候，他就常常退群，然後他對我們臺灣可能有很多的承諾，其實他也不願意履行，如果以他商人的性格，他再次當選的時候，他連北約的國家他都想要退出，或者甚至如果他們繳的錢不夠的時候，他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們，他這種話都講得出來了，所以當我們一直認為美國一定會全力支持我們，或可以支援我們到什麼樣程度的時候，我們到底可以有多少信任？或者我們可以期待多少？這個才是我們擔心的。","如果美國都這樣的話，那其他國家就更不用說了，因為每一個國家跟中國其實都有存在競爭，或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候，其實他們還會採取對抗的態度，可是在對抗當中，他們都有不斷、不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作，還有一些溝通的管道，反而我們這些已經越來越欠缺，當我們一直失去邦交國，現在這些國家當他們在考量、權衡他們的利益大於我們的利益的時候，它可能也會犧牲我們，這個部分我們到時候該怎麼辦？"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。有關於我們跟美國之間的關係，如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話，美國在國會山莊上面對臺灣的支持，這個是跨黨派的。其實川普在第一任當總統之前，他的這種個性也已經展露無遺了，可是當他在擔任美國總統的時候，我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的4年，我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統，我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係。在過去這段時間，我們看到我們臺灣跟美國之間的合作，尤其是安全合作的加強，已經是非常建制化的，所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪替的影響。"],["馬委員文君：部長，時間的關係，剛剛先決的條件我已經有提到了，因為臺海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體利益，也牽涉到其他國家的利益，所以他們會希望這裡維持和平穩定的發展，我想這是他們最大的考量，尤其美國現在兩黨包括他們的國會，其實現在也很紛亂，像流水一樣，現在退出的非常多，我相信部長也有注意到這個訊息，所以我想我們還是不能在業務報告上面寫得太好、太美好，我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多。剛剛大家講到太平島的部分，也有很多委員在詢問，那就您的看法，什麼時間才是最適合的？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤來考量，就是說總統那邊的每一個動作，我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益，當然可能有不同的時間點、不同政策背景的考量。"],["馬委員文君：因為以蔡總統來說，他已經要卸任了，他再不去他也沒有時間去了，以他總統的身分。所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前都去登島宣示？既然太平島是我們國家的領土，我們要去自己的土地上面，為什麼還要看別人的臉色，還要擔心別人會不會生氣？今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安，其實包括很多的聲索國，還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突，其實才是南海現在最主要衝突的原因，可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下，那我們擔心什麼呢？蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢？因為以現在來說，大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下，他現在去其實是最安全的，因為沒有人會動他，所以這個部分我想大家在講它的時間點到底是什麼，說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗，那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守，所以其實不去也沒關係，那部長還有總統為什麼要大老遠的飛世界各地，然後去我們的外館去跟他們慰勞，然後去那裡宣示？我們所有的外館不是也都插了國旗，那也都是我們的一些駐外館的代表處，都很明確啊！那為什麼我們還去呢？","其實這一些宣示的意義，它就是代表我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的，是我們重視的，當我們島變礁的時候，我們只能抗議，然後8年默默的就過去了，登島其實就是一個宣示的意義不是嗎？我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦！每次要講什麼的時候，中國的那個議題就來了，這個中國可以獲得什麼利益？從我們過去兩任的總統，不論是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九，他們二個去，他們讓中共得了什麼利？其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心，所以我不曉得大家評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險，因為如果大家不輕啟戰端，我相信蔡總統現在去其實還蠻安全的。那是不是其他的……我們委員會要不要安排，我想其實這個都是大家在這個時間點，尤其它在紛亂的時候，我們都不講話，我們都沒有發出聲音，人家大概都會認為我們都默許了，這個才是最危險的時候。另外，海地……"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於這個議題，我很簡單的跟委員回應一下，就是我們委員會這邊、我們召委這邊要做什麼樣的決定，我們完全尊重，那我相信政府的相關部門，尤其是國防部那邊都會配合，但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍，這個是我們的內政，所以今天早上很多委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島事情的時候，我都覺得有點怪怪的，那個是內政的議題，而不是外交的議題，但是如果說要有這種外交牽強的話就是宣示主權，我們可以一而再再而三地來說明太平島就是我們的主權，這一點毋庸置疑，謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：部長，如果大家是要去墾丁，大概就沒有這種問題，因為他要去太平島嘛！其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的，所以才會牽扯到這麼多，我們在這裡也是希望當大家都已經表態的時候，我們當然也要發出自己的聲音，還要有捍衛的決心，這是我們在這裡提出來的。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心，而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土。部長，這其實也不是內政或外交的問題，因為你比較宏觀，你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面，所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦！希望你提出來的意見也可以是正確的方向，因為到底是不是對的時間點，我想總統應該要有智慧去判斷，他剩沒多少時間了，感謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君的發言。接下來由洪申翰委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content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{\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 730.155, \"end\": 730.295, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 730.295, \"end\": 730.495, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 730.495, \"end\": 730.595, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 730.595, \"end\": 730.755, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 730.755, \"end\": 731.437, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 731.437, \"end\": 731.557, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 731.557, \"end\": 732.037, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 732.037, \"end\": 732.198, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 732.198, \"end\": 732.438, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"默\", \"start\": 732.438, \"end\": 732.618, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"默\", \"start\": 732.618, \"end\": 732.819, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 732.819, \"end\": 732.939, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 732.939, \"end\": 733.259, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 733.259, \"end\": 733.44, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 733.44, \"end\": 733.981, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 733.981, \"end\": 734.301, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 734.301, \"end\": 734.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 734.321, \"end\": 734.802, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"島\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 734.802, \"end\": 734.962, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 734.962, \"end\": 735.142, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 735.142, \"end\": 735.263, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 735.263, \"end\": 735.363, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 735.363, \"end\": 735.563, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 735.563, \"end\": 735.763, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"誓\", \"start\": 735.763, \"end\": 735.884, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 735.884, \"end\": 736.004, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 736.004, \"end\": 736.304, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 736.304, \"end\": 736.444, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 736.444, \"end\": 736.464, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 737.662, \"end\": 743.344, \"text\": \"我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 737.662, \"end\": 737.782, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 737.782, \"end\": 738.062, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 738.062, \"end\": 738.702, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 738.702, \"end\": 738.722, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 738.722, \"end\": 738.802, \"score\": 0.464}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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741.883, \"end\": 741.923, \"score\": 0.132}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 741.923, \"end\": 741.943, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"捍\", \"start\": 741.943, \"end\": 742.403, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 742.403, \"end\": 742.423, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 742.423, \"end\": 742.523, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 742.523, \"end\": 742.543, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 742.543, \"end\": 742.563, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 742.563, \"end\": 742.623, \"score\": 0.403}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 742.623, \"end\": 742.643, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 742.643, \"end\": 742.803, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 742.803, \"end\": 742.823, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 742.823, \"end\": 742.843, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 742.843, \"end\": 742.863, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 742.863, \"end\": 743.103, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 743.103, \"end\": 743.184, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 743.184, \"end\": 743.204, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 743.204, \"end\": 743.264, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 743.264, \"end\": 743.304, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"危\", \"start\": 743.304, \"end\": 743.324, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 743.324, \"end\": 743.344, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}]}, {\"start\": 767.29, \"end\": 767.31, \"text\": \"委員會議員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 767.29, \"end\": 767.31, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 787.796, \"end\": 789.497, \"text\": \"我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 787.796, \"end\": 787.836, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 787.836, \"end\": 787.976, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 787.976, \"end\": 788.076, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 788.076, \"end\": 788.096, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 788.096, \"end\": 788.136, \"score\": 0.046}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 788.136, \"end\": 788.156, \"score\": 0.026}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 788.156, \"end\": 788.236, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 788.236, \"end\": 788.256, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 788.256, \"end\": 788.316, \"score\": 0.471}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 788.316, \"end\": 788.397, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 788.397, \"end\": 788.457, \"score\": 0.533}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 788.457, \"end\": 788.477, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 788.477, \"end\": 788.577, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 788.577, \"end\": 788.617, \"score\": 0.124}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 788.617, \"end\": 788.637, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 788.637, \"end\": 788.657, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 788.657, \"end\": 788.677, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 788.677, \"end\": 789.197, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 789.197, \"end\": 789.217, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 789.217, \"end\": 789.337, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 789.337, \"end\": 789.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 789.357, \"end\": 789.457, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 789.457, \"end\": 789.477, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 789.477, \"end\": 789.497, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 803.989, \"end\": 831.508, \"text\": \"我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 803.989, \"end\": 804.209, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 804.209, \"end\": 804.51, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 804.51, \"end\": 804.67, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 804.67, \"end\": 804.89, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 804.89, \"end\": 805.07, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 805.07, \"end\": 805.75, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 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00:00:30,088\n我們的巡打其實很有可能因為在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到說你在選後就會卸任我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統他到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作可是就這個部分因為我們在這麼長的時間以來可能我們外交面臨很多的困境就像部長講的你在3月份\n\n3\n00:00:47,744 --> 00:00:48,025\n春酒聯誼晚會\n\n4\n00:01:03,385 --> 00:01:09,188\n你說總統大概不喜歡你所以還讓你當那麼久因為是明顯純粹是開玩笑的對1996年以來明選總統以後其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的那當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑可能大概那個蔡總統是非常倚重你可是因為我們在這八年裡面我們丟失了十個邦交國\n\n5\n00:01:31,201 --> 00:01:37,208\n那像這樣子的邦交國一直失去的情況之下我們從22個到現在只剩下12個那現在我們在業務報告裡面其實也沒有看到對於邦交國其實他著墨甚少\n\n6\n00:01:46,178 --> 00:02:02,028\n反而是很多其他的國家不管是美國日本還有歐洲還有澳洲等等其實我們好像甚至像捷克這些等等這些國家因為我們在這幾年雖然我們邦交國失去了可是我們的預算我們從222億就是大概2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經到高達310幾億\n\n7\n00:02:16,057 --> 00:02:28,542\n就這樣子的權衡,我們到底獲得了什麼?失去了什麼?這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法?對我們的外交我們到底增加了什麼?因為我們看不出來,現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們的區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高,因為對於美國或者其他國家來看,他們\n\n8\n00:02:41,027 --> 00:02:41,067\n馬文君\n\n9\n00:03:00,291 --> 00:03:00,331\n：馬文君\n\n10\n00:03:20,757 --> 00:03:44,102\n對整體的他們的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的所以我想這才是他們最主要的考量當然台海的穩定台灣的安全或者我們的民主發展當然也是他們可能想要守護的可是絕對不是第一所以就這樣的部分我們在越編越多的預算之下可是我們的邦交國一直流失的情況我們有什麼樣的一個平衡權重\n\n11\n00:03:45,222 --> 00:04:08,925\n部長是不是比較簡單的方面因為我們看到業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點而是都是過去的一個成果而已是非常謝謝委員剛剛的這個催訓那如果說要講到這個的話的確是要從我們比較寬廣的這個角度來思考就是中國給我們很大的壓力不管是在軍事上經濟上外交上面等等這個壓力很大\n\n12\n00:04:09,545 --> 00:04:24,120\n那在這個壓力龐大之下我們就必須要去做好我們的那個戰略的這個規劃那我們戰略的規劃就是說對於那一些最可能支持我們最重要的這些民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的這些對象\n\n13\n00:04:24,801 --> 00:04:50,571\n那其次也就是邦交國他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的那我們也要全力去捍衛那另外我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友比如說中東歐的這些國家所以這個是我們整體的這個戰略的思考也因此如果說看在那個我們雖然說有喪失了幾個邦交國\n\n14\n00:04:51,431 --> 00:05:04,204\n可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法目前仍然保持相當的這個正面的狀況之下我想我們的這個外交的戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定\n\n15\n00:05:05,882 --> 00:05:23,231\n部長雖然這樣子的說法四平八穩可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下我們也很怕他骨牌效應越來越迅速所以其實剛剛我們提到的有很多我們用力很深的這些國家其實他們不管在一些國際組織或者應該有的\n\n16\n00:05:26,953 --> 00:05:32,337\n幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下他們從來沒有幫我們講過話就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面其實他們沒有他們都是在平常的情況之下一直大概在這個部分會支持我們可是在正式的一個場合國際場合裡面從來沒有反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案可以幫我們發言的越來越少了所以就這些部分因為為什麼要特別提到這個\n\n17\n00:05:55,615 --> 00:05:57,736\n美國今年他已經又要大選所以當川普總統或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選尤其是川普因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係其實基本上好像是還不錯\n\n18\n00:06:15,606 --> 00:06:19,910\n就他的言論包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候美國會提供援助可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額\n\n19\n00:06:33,297 --> 00:06:39,301\n甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行這些財政責任的成員國就北約嘛跟他們表明說如果他們沒有履行足夠的這樣的財務的合理份額的話他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家美國不會協防\n\n20\n00:06:55,731 --> 00:07:18,150\n以川普這樣子的說法包括過去他在任的時候他就常常退群然後他對我們台灣可能有很多的承諾其實他也不願意履行如果以他商人的性格他再次當選的時候他連北約的國家他都可以他都想要退出或者甚至如果他繳的錢不夠的時候他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們\n\n21\n00:07:22,273 --> 00:07:36,395\n他這種話都講得出來了所以當我們一直認為說美國一定會全力支持我們或可以支援我們到什麼樣的程度的時候我們到底可以有多少信任或者我們可以期待多少這個才是我們擔心的\n\n22\n00:07:37,737 --> 00:07:46,981\n所以如果美國都這樣子的話那其他的國家就更不用說了因為每一個國家你看他們在跟中國其實都有存在競爭或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候其實他們還會採取對抗的態度可是在對抗當中他們都有不斷不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作\n\n23\n00:08:04,428 --> 00:08:04,468\n：馬文君\n\n24\n00:08:23,789 --> 00:08:39,048\n謝謝委員有關於我們跟美國之間的這個關係如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話美國在國會山莊上面對台灣的支持這個是跨黨派的\n\n25\n00:08:40,649 --> 00:09:07,603\n其實川普在第一任當總統之前他的這種個性也已經展露無遺的可是當在他那個擔任美國總統的時候我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的四年我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係\n\n26\n00:09:08,744 --> 00:09:20,573\n在過去這段時間我們看到我們台灣跟美國之間的這個合作尤其是安全合作的這個加強已經是非常建制化的所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪廓的影響這是時間的關係因為我剛剛先覺得條件已經有提到了因為台海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體的利益也牽涉到其他國家的利益所以他們會希望這裡維持\n\n27\n00:09:34,244 --> 00:09:34,304\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n28\n00:09:57,904 --> 00:10:13,065\n我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多因為剛剛大家講到太平島的部分太平島因為部長剛剛也有很多委員在詢問就您的看法什麼時間才是最適合的\n\n29\n00:10:15,725 --> 00:10:31,995\n我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤的來考量就是說總統那邊的每一個動作我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益那當然可能有不同的時間點不同的這個政策的背景的這個考量\n\n30\n00:10:32,861 --> 00:10:37,045\n因為以蔡總統來說他已經要卸任了他再不去他也沒有時間去了以他總統的身份所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前他們都去登島宣誓既然太平島是我們國家的領土\n\n31\n00:10:48,055 --> 00:11:11,100\n我們要去自己的土地上面為什麼還要看別人的臉色還要擔心別人會不會生氣今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安其實包括很多的聲索國還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突其實才是南海現在最主要的衝突的原因可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下那我們擔心什麼呢\n\n32\n00:11:16,221 --> 00:11:19,282\n蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢因為以現在來說大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下他現在去其實是最安全的因為沒有人會動他所以這個部分我想大家在講他的時間點到底是什麼因為說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守所以其實不去也沒關係那部長還有總統為什麼要\n\n33\n00:11:43,510 --> 00:11:43,550\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n34\n00:12:02,242 --> 00:12:16,464\n我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的所以我們重視的當我們島變焦的時候我們只能抗議然後八年默默的就過去了然後登島其實它就是一個宣誓的意義不是嗎\n\n35\n00:12:17,662 --> 00:12:23,344\n我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為\n\n36\n00:12:47,290 --> 00:12:47,310\n委員會議員\n\n37\n00:13:07,796 --> 00:13:09,497\n我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定\n\n38\n00:13:23,989 --> 00:13:51,508\n我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權\n\n39\n00:13:52,268 --> 00:14:18,584\n那我們可以一而再再而三的來說明太平島就是我們的主權這一點無庸置疑謝謝委員今天部長因為如果大家是要去墾丁大概就沒有這種問題啊因為他要去太平島嘛那所以其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的所以才會牽扯到這麼多所以我們在這裡也是希望在當大家都已經表態的時候我們當然也要發出自己的聲音還要有捍衛的決心\n\n40\n00:14:21,185 --> 00:14:40,099\n這是我們在這裡提出來的國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土尤其部長其實也不是內政或外交的問題因為你比較宏觀你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦\n\n41\n00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:42,501\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t2690\t部長有請部長部長好部長在這個業務報告這一次的\n20339\t30088\t我們的巡打其實很有可能因為在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到說你在選後就會卸任我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統他到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作可是就這個部分因為我們在這麼長的時間以來可能我們外交面臨很多的困境就像部長講的你在3月份\n47744\t48025\t春酒聯誼晚會\n63385\t69188\t你說總統大概不喜歡你所以還讓你當那麼久因為是明顯純粹是開玩笑的對1996年以來明選總統以後其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的那當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑可能大概那個蔡總統是非常倚重你可是因為我們在這八年裡面我們丟失了十個邦交國\n91201\t97208\t那像這樣子的邦交國一直失去的情況之下我們從22個到現在只剩下12個那現在我們在業務報告裡面其實也沒有看到對於邦交國其實他著墨甚少\n106178\t122028\t反而是很多其他的國家不管是美國日本還有歐洲還有澳洲等等其實我們好像甚至像捷克這些等等這些國家因為我們在這幾年雖然我們邦交國失去了可是我們的預算我們從222億就是大概2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經到高達310幾億\n136057\t148542\t就這樣子的權衡,我們到底獲得了什麼?失去了什麼?這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法?對我們的外交我們到底增加了什麼?因為我們看不出來,現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們的區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高,因為對於美國或者其他國家來看,他們\n161027\t161067\t馬文君\n180291\t180331\t：馬文君\n200757\t224102\t對整體的他們的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的所以我想這才是他們最主要的考量當然台海的穩定台灣的安全或者我們的民主發展當然也是他們可能想要守護的可是絕對不是第一所以就這樣的部分我們在越編越多的預算之下可是我們的邦交國一直流失的情況我們有什麼樣的一個平衡權重\n225222\t248925\t部長是不是比較簡單的方面因為我們看到業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點而是都是過去的一個成果而已是非常謝謝委員剛剛的這個催訓那如果說要講到這個的話的確是要從我們比較寬廣的這個角度來思考就是中國給我們很大的壓力不管是在軍事上經濟上外交上面等等這個壓力很大\n249545\t264120\t那在這個壓力龐大之下我們就必須要去做好我們的那個戰略的這個規劃那我們戰略的規劃就是說對於那一些最可能支持我們最重要的這些民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的這些對象\n264801\t290571\t那其次也就是邦交國他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的那我們也要全力去捍衛那另外我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友比如說中東歐的這些國家所以這個是我們整體的這個戰略的思考也因此如果說看在那個我們雖然說有喪失了幾個邦交國\n291431\t304204\t可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法目前仍然保持相當的這個正面的狀況之下我想我們的這個外交的戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定\n305882\t323231\t部長雖然這樣子的說法四平八穩可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下我們也很怕他骨牌效應越來越迅速所以其實剛剛我們提到的有很多我們用力很深的這些國家其實他們不管在一些國際組織或者應該有的\n326953\t332337\t幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下他們從來沒有幫我們講過話就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面其實他們沒有他們都是在平常的情況之下一直大概在這個部分會支持我們可是在正式的一個場合國際場合裡面從來沒有反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案可以幫我們發言的越來越少了所以就這些部分因為為什麼要特別提到這個\n355615\t357736\t美國今年他已經又要大選所以當川普總統或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選尤其是川普因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係其實基本上好像是還不錯\n375606\t379910\t就他的言論包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候美國會提供援助可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額\n393297\t399301\t甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行這些財政責任的成員國就北約嘛跟他們表明說如果他們沒有履行足夠的這樣的財務的合理份額的話他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家美國不會協防\n415731\t438150\t以川普這樣子的說法包括過去他在任的時候他就常常退群然後他對我們台灣可能有很多的承諾其實他也不願意履行如果以他商人的性格他再次當選的時候他連北約的國家他都可以他都想要退出或者甚至如果他繳的錢不夠的時候他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們\n442273\t456395\t他這種話都講得出來了所以當我們一直認為說美國一定會全力支持我們或可以支援我們到什麼樣的程度的時候我們到底可以有多少信任或者我們可以期待多少這個才是我們擔心的\n457737\t466981\t所以如果美國都這樣子的話那其他的國家就更不用說了因為每一個國家你看他們在跟中國其實都有存在競爭或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候其實他們還會採取對抗的態度可是在對抗當中他們都有不斷不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作\n484428\t484468\t：馬文君\n503789\t519048\t謝謝委員有關於我們跟美國之間的這個關係如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話美國在國會山莊上面對台灣的支持這個是跨黨派的\n520649\t547603\t其實川普在第一任當總統之前他的這種個性也已經展露無遺的可是當在他那個擔任美國總統的時候我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的四年我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係\n548744\t560573\t在過去這段時間我們看到我們台灣跟美國之間的這個合作尤其是安全合作的這個加強已經是非常建制化的所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪廓的影響這是時間的關係因為我剛剛先覺得條件已經有提到了因為台海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體的利益也牽涉到其他國家的利益所以他們會希望這裡維持\n574244\t574304\t﹚馬文君﹚\n597904\t613065\t我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多因為剛剛大家講到太平島的部分太平島因為部長剛剛也有很多委員在詢問就您的看法什麼時間才是最適合的\n615725\t631995\t我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤的來考量就是說總統那邊的每一個動作我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益那當然可能有不同的時間點不同的這個政策的背景的這個考量\n632861\t637045\t因為以蔡總統來說他已經要卸任了他再不去他也沒有時間去了以他總統的身份所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前他們都去登島宣誓既然太平島是我們國家的領土\n648055\t671100\t我們要去自己的土地上面為什麼還要看別人的臉色還要擔心別人會不會生氣今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安其實包括很多的聲索國還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突其實才是南海現在最主要的衝突的原因可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下那我們擔心什麼呢\n676221\t679282\t蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢因為以現在來說大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下他現在去其實是最安全的因為沒有人會動他所以這個部分我想大家在講他的時間點到底是什麼因為說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守所以其實不去也沒關係那部長還有總統為什麼要\n703510\t703550\t﹚馬文君﹚\n722242\t736464\t我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的所以我們重視的當我們島變焦的時候我們只能抗議然後八年默默的就過去了然後登島其實它就是一個宣誓的意義不是嗎\n737662\t743344\t我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為\n767290\t767310\t委員會議員\n787796\t789497\t我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定\n803989\t831508\t我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權\n832268\t858584\t那我們可以一而再再而三的來說明太平島就是我們的主權這一點無庸置疑謝謝委員今天部長因為如果大家是要去墾丁大概就沒有這種問題啊因為他要去太平島嘛那所以其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的所以才會牽扯到這麼多所以我們在這裡也是希望在當大家都已經表態的時候我們當然也要發出自己的聲音還要有捍衛的決心\n861185\t880099\t這是我們在這裡提出來的國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土尤其部長其實也不是內政或外交的問題因為你比較宏觀你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦\n882060\t882501\t主席\n","txt":"部長有請部長部長好部長在這個業務報告這一次的\n我們的巡打其實很有可能因為在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到說你在選後就會卸任我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統他到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作可是就這個部分因為我們在這麼長的時間以來可能我們外交面臨很多的困境就像部長講的你在3月份\n春酒聯誼晚會\n你說總統大概不喜歡你所以還讓你當那麼久因為是明顯純粹是開玩笑的對1996年以來明選總統以後其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的那當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑可能大概那個蔡總統是非常倚重你可是因為我們在這八年裡面我們丟失了十個邦交國\n那像這樣子的邦交國一直失去的情況之下我們從22個到現在只剩下12個那現在我們在業務報告裡面其實也沒有看到對於邦交國其實他著墨甚少\n反而是很多其他的國家不管是美國日本還有歐洲還有澳洲等等其實我們好像甚至像捷克這些等等這些國家因為我們在這幾年雖然我們邦交國失去了可是我們的預算我們從222億就是大概2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經到高達310幾億\n就這樣子的權衡,我們到底獲得了什麼?失去了什麼?這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法?對我們的外交我們到底增加了什麼?因為我們看不出來,現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們的區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高,因為對於美國或者其他國家來看,他們\n馬文君\n：馬文君\n對整體的他們的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的所以我想這才是他們最主要的考量當然台海的穩定台灣的安全或者我們的民主發展當然也是他們可能想要守護的可是絕對不是第一所以就這樣的部分我們在越編越多的預算之下可是我們的邦交國一直流失的情況我們有什麼樣的一個平衡權重\n部長是不是比較簡單的方面因為我們看到業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點而是都是過去的一個成果而已是非常謝謝委員剛剛的這個催訓那如果說要講到這個的話的確是要從我們比較寬廣的這個角度來思考就是中國給我們很大的壓力不管是在軍事上經濟上外交上面等等這個壓力很大\n那在這個壓力龐大之下我們就必須要去做好我們的那個戰略的這個規劃那我們戰略的規劃就是說對於那一些最可能支持我們最重要的這些民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的這些對象\n那其次也就是邦交國他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的那我們也要全力去捍衛那另外我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友比如說中東歐的這些國家所以這個是我們整體的這個戰略的思考也因此如果說看在那個我們雖然說有喪失了幾個邦交國\n可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法目前仍然保持相當的這個正面的狀況之下我想我們的這個外交的戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定\n部長雖然這樣子的說法四平八穩可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下我們也很怕他骨牌效應越來越迅速所以其實剛剛我們提到的有很多我們用力很深的這些國家其實他們不管在一些國際組織或者應該有的\n幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下他們從來沒有幫我們講過話就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面其實他們沒有他們都是在平常的情況之下一直大概在這個部分會支持我們可是在正式的一個場合國際場合裡面從來沒有反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案可以幫我們發言的越來越少了所以就這些部分因為為什麼要特別提到這個\n美國今年他已經又要大選所以當川普總統或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選尤其是川普因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係其實基本上好像是還不錯\n就他的言論包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候美國會提供援助可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額\n甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行這些財政責任的成員國就北約嘛跟他們表明說如果他們沒有履行足夠的這樣的財務的合理份額的話他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家美國不會協防\n以川普這樣子的說法包括過去他在任的時候他就常常退群然後他對我們台灣可能有很多的承諾其實他也不願意履行如果以他商人的性格他再次當選的時候他連北約的國家他都可以他都想要退出或者甚至如果他繳的錢不夠的時候他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們\n他這種話都講得出來了所以當我們一直認為說美國一定會全力支持我們或可以支援我們到什麼樣的程度的時候我們到底可以有多少信任或者我們可以期待多少這個才是我們擔心的\n所以如果美國都這樣子的話那其他的國家就更不用說了因為每一個國家你看他們在跟中國其實都有存在競爭或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候其實他們還會採取對抗的態度可是在對抗當中他們都有不斷不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作\n：馬文君\n謝謝委員有關於我們跟美國之間的這個關係如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話美國在國會山莊上面對台灣的支持這個是跨黨派的\n其實川普在第一任當總統之前他的這種個性也已經展露無遺的可是當在他那個擔任美國總統的時候我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的四年我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係\n在過去這段時間我們看到我們台灣跟美國之間的這個合作尤其是安全合作的這個加強已經是非常建制化的所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪廓的影響這是時間的關係因為我剛剛先覺得條件已經有提到了因為台海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體的利益也牽涉到其他國家的利益所以他們會希望這裡維持\n﹚馬文君﹚\n我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多因為剛剛大家講到太平島的部分太平島因為部長剛剛也有很多委員在詢問就您的看法什麼時間才是最適合的\n我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤的來考量就是說總統那邊的每一個動作我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益那當然可能有不同的時間點不同的這個政策的背景的這個考量\n因為以蔡總統來說他已經要卸任了他再不去他也沒有時間去了以他總統的身份所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前他們都去登島宣誓既然太平島是我們國家的領土\n我們要去自己的土地上面為什麼還要看別人的臉色還要擔心別人會不會生氣今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安其實包括很多的聲索國還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突其實才是南海現在最主要的衝突的原因可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下那我們擔心什麼呢\n蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢因為以現在來說大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下他現在去其實是最安全的因為沒有人會動他所以這個部分我想大家在講他的時間點到底是什麼因為說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守所以其實不去也沒關係那部長還有總統為什麼要\n﹚馬文君﹚\n我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的所以我們重視的當我們島變焦的時候我們只能抗議然後八年默默的就過去了然後登島其實它就是一個宣誓的意義不是嗎\n我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為\n委員會議員\n我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定\n我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權\n那我們可以一而再再而三的來說明太平島就是我們的主權這一點無庸置疑謝謝委員今天部長因為如果大家是要去墾丁大概就沒有這種問題啊因為他要去太平島嘛那所以其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的所以才會牽扯到這麼多所以我們在這裡也是希望在當大家都已經表態的時候我們當然也要發出自己的聲音還要有捍衛的決心\n這是我們在這裡提出來的國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土尤其部長其實也不是內政或外交的問題因為你比較宏觀你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:02.690\n部長有請部長部長好部長在這個業務報告這一次的\n\n00:20.339 --> 00:30.088\n我們的巡打其實很有可能因為在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到說你在選後就會卸任我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統他到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作可是就這個部分因為我們在這麼長的時間以來可能我們外交面臨很多的困境就像部長講的你在3月份\n\n00:47.744 --> 00:48.025\n春酒聯誼晚會\n\n01:03.385 --> 01:09.188\n你說總統大概不喜歡你所以還讓你當那麼久因為是明顯純粹是開玩笑的對1996年以來明選總統以後其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的那當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑可能大概那個蔡總統是非常倚重你可是因為我們在這八年裡面我們丟失了十個邦交國\n\n01:31.201 --> 01:37.208\n那像這樣子的邦交國一直失去的情況之下我們從22個到現在只剩下12個那現在我們在業務報告裡面其實也沒有看到對於邦交國其實他著墨甚少\n\n01:46.178 --> 02:02.028\n反而是很多其他的國家不管是美國日本還有歐洲還有澳洲等等其實我們好像甚至像捷克這些等等這些國家因為我們在這幾年雖然我們邦交國失去了可是我們的預算我們從222億就是大概2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經到高達310幾億\n\n02:16.057 --> 02:28.542\n就這樣子的權衡,我們到底獲得了什麼?失去了什麼?這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法?對我們的外交我們到底增加了什麼?因為我們看不出來,現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們的區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高,因為對於美國或者其他國家來看,他們\n\n02:41.027 --> 02:41.067\n馬文君\n\n03:00.291 --> 03:00.331\n：馬文君\n\n03:20.757 --> 03:44.102\n對整體的他們的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的所以我想這才是他們最主要的考量當然台海的穩定台灣的安全或者我們的民主發展當然也是他們可能想要守護的可是絕對不是第一所以就這樣的部分我們在越編越多的預算之下可是我們的邦交國一直流失的情況我們有什麼樣的一個平衡權重\n\n03:45.222 --> 04:08.925\n部長是不是比較簡單的方面因為我們看到業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點而是都是過去的一個成果而已是非常謝謝委員剛剛的這個催訓那如果說要講到這個的話的確是要從我們比較寬廣的這個角度來思考就是中國給我們很大的壓力不管是在軍事上經濟上外交上面等等這個壓力很大\n\n04:09.545 --> 04:24.120\n那在這個壓力龐大之下我們就必須要去做好我們的那個戰略的這個規劃那我們戰略的規劃就是說對於那一些最可能支持我們最重要的這些民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的這些對象\n\n04:24.801 --> 04:50.571\n那其次也就是邦交國他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的那我們也要全力去捍衛那另外我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友比如說中東歐的這些國家所以這個是我們整體的這個戰略的思考也因此如果說看在那個我們雖然說有喪失了幾個邦交國\n\n04:51.431 --> 05:04.204\n可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法目前仍然保持相當的這個正面的狀況之下我想我們的這個外交的戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定\n\n05:05.882 --> 05:23.231\n部長雖然這樣子的說法四平八穩可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下我們也很怕他骨牌效應越來越迅速所以其實剛剛我們提到的有很多我們用力很深的這些國家其實他們不管在一些國際組織或者應該有的\n\n05:26.953 --> 05:32.337\n幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下他們從來沒有幫我們講過話就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面其實他們沒有他們都是在平常的情況之下一直大概在這個部分會支持我們可是在正式的一個場合國際場合裡面從來沒有反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案可以幫我們發言的越來越少了所以就這些部分因為為什麼要特別提到這個\n\n05:55.615 --> 05:57.736\n美國今年他已經又要大選所以當川普總統或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選尤其是川普因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係其實基本上好像是還不錯\n\n06:15.606 --> 06:19.910\n就他的言論包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候美國會提供援助可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額\n\n06:33.297 --> 06:39.301\n甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行這些財政責任的成員國就北約嘛跟他們表明說如果他們沒有履行足夠的這樣的財務的合理份額的話他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家美國不會協防\n\n06:55.731 --> 07:18.150\n以川普這樣子的說法包括過去他在任的時候他就常常退群然後他對我們台灣可能有很多的承諾其實他也不願意履行如果以他商人的性格他再次當選的時候他連北約的國家他都可以他都想要退出或者甚至如果他繳的錢不夠的時候他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們\n\n07:22.273 --> 07:36.395\n他這種話都講得出來了所以當我們一直認為說美國一定會全力支持我們或可以支援我們到什麼樣的程度的時候我們到底可以有多少信任或者我們可以期待多少這個才是我們擔心的\n\n07:37.737 --> 07:46.981\n所以如果美國都這樣子的話那其他的國家就更不用說了因為每一個國家你看他們在跟中國其實都有存在競爭或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候其實他們還會採取對抗的態度可是在對抗當中他們都有不斷不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作\n\n08:04.428 --> 08:04.468\n：馬文君\n\n08:23.789 --> 08:39.048\n謝謝委員有關於我們跟美國之間的這個關係如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話美國在國會山莊上面對台灣的支持這個是跨黨派的\n\n08:40.649 --> 09:07.603\n其實川普在第一任當總統之前他的這種個性也已經展露無遺的可是當在他那個擔任美國總統的時候我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的四年我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係\n\n09:08.744 --> 09:20.573\n在過去這段時間我們看到我們台灣跟美國之間的這個合作尤其是安全合作的這個加強已經是非常建制化的所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪廓的影響這是時間的關係因為我剛剛先覺得條件已經有提到了因為台海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體的利益也牽涉到其他國家的利益所以他們會希望這裡維持\n\n09:34.244 --> 09:34.304\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n09:57.904 --> 10:13.065\n我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多因為剛剛大家講到太平島的部分太平島因為部長剛剛也有很多委員在詢問就您的看法什麼時間才是最適合的\n\n10:15.725 --> 10:31.995\n我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤的來考量就是說總統那邊的每一個動作我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益那當然可能有不同的時間點不同的這個政策的背景的這個考量\n\n10:32.861 --> 10:37.045\n因為以蔡總統來說他已經要卸任了他再不去他也沒有時間去了以他總統的身份所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前他們都去登島宣誓既然太平島是我們國家的領土\n\n10:48.055 --> 11:11.100\n我們要去自己的土地上面為什麼還要看別人的臉色還要擔心別人會不會生氣今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安其實包括很多的聲索國還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突其實才是南海現在最主要的衝突的原因可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下那我們擔心什麼呢\n\n11:16.221 --> 11:19.282\n蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢因為以現在來說大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下他現在去其實是最安全的因為沒有人會動他所以這個部分我想大家在講他的時間點到底是什麼因為說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守所以其實不去也沒關係那部長還有總統為什麼要\n\n11:43.510 --> 11:43.550\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n12:02.242 --> 12:16.464\n我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的所以我們重視的當我們島變焦的時候我們只能抗議然後八年默默的就過去了然後登島其實它就是一個宣誓的意義不是嗎\n\n12:17.662 --> 12:23.344\n我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為\n\n12:47.290 --> 12:47.310\n委員會議員\n\n13:07.796 --> 13:09.497\n我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定\n\n13:23.989 --> 13:51.508\n我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權\n\n13:52.268 --> 14:18.584\n那我們可以一而再再而三的來說明太平島就是我們的主權這一點無庸置疑謝謝委員今天部長因為如果大家是要去墾丁大概就沒有這種問題啊因為他要去太平島嘛那所以其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的所以才會牽扯到這麼多所以我們在這裡也是希望在當大家都已經表態的時候我們當然也要發出自己的聲音還要有捍衛的決心\n\n14:21.185 --> 14:40.099\n這是我們在這裡提出來的國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土尤其部長其實也不是內政或外交的問題因為你比較宏觀你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦\n\n14:42.060 --> 14:42.501\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":2.69,"text":"部長有請部長部長好部長在這個業務報告這一次的"},{"start":20.339,"end":30.088,"text":"我們的巡打其實很有可能因為在去年選前的時候部長已經有特別提到說你在選後就會卸任我們當然不曉得新任的賴總統他到底會怎麼樣安排他的人事運作可是就這個部分因為我們在這麼長的時間以來可能我們外交面臨很多的困境就像部長講的你在3月份"},{"start":47.744,"end":48.025,"text":"春酒聯誼晚會"},{"start":63.385,"end":69.188,"text":"你說總統大概不喜歡你所以還讓你當那麼久因為是明顯純粹是開玩笑的對1996年以來明選總統以後其實吳部長是擔任外交部長最久的那當然在某些程度上我相信你是開玩笑可能大概那個蔡總統是非常倚重你可是因為我們在這八年裡面我們丟失了十個邦交國"},{"start":91.201,"end":97.208,"text":"那像這樣子的邦交國一直失去的情況之下我們從22個到現在只剩下12個那現在我們在業務報告裡面其實也沒有看到對於邦交國其實他著墨甚少"},{"start":106.178,"end":122.028,"text":"反而是很多其他的國家不管是美國日本還有歐洲還有澳洲等等其實我們好像甚至像捷克這些等等這些國家因為我們在這幾年雖然我們邦交國失去了可是我們的預算我們從222億就是大概2015年左右從每年的222億到現在已經到高達310幾億"},{"start":136.057,"end":148.542,"text":"就這樣子的權衡,我們到底獲得了什麼?失去了什麼?這樣是不是有一個平衡的看法?對我們的外交我們到底增加了什麼?因為我們看不出來,現在我們的兩岸關係還有我們的區域緊張的態勢其實越來越升高,因為對於美國或者其他國家來看,他們"},{"start":161.027,"end":161.067,"text":"馬文君"},{"start":180.291,"end":180.331,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":200.757,"end":224.102,"text":"對整體的他們的國家利益來說是殺傷力非常高的所以我想這才是他們最主要的考量當然台海的穩定台灣的安全或者我們的民主發展當然也是他們可能想要守護的可是絕對不是第一所以就這樣的部分我們在越編越多的預算之下可是我們的邦交國一直流失的情況我們有什麼樣的一個平衡權重"},{"start":225.222,"end":248.925,"text":"部長是不是比較簡單的方面因為我們看到業務報告裡面沒有看到今年發展的重點而是都是過去的一個成果而已是非常謝謝委員剛剛的這個催訓那如果說要講到這個的話的確是要從我們比較寬廣的這個角度來思考就是中國給我們很大的壓力不管是在軍事上經濟上外交上面等等這個壓力很大"},{"start":249.545,"end":264.12,"text":"那在這個壓力龐大之下我們就必須要去做好我們的那個戰略的這個規劃那我們戰略的規劃就是說對於那一些最可能支持我們最重要的這些民主國家當然是我們必須要去交往的這些對象"},{"start":264.801,"end":290.571,"text":"那其次也就是邦交國他們是能夠直接在國際組織裡面為我們講話的那我們也要全力去捍衛那另外我們也必須要去開發一些可以幫我們講話可以更加容納我們的這些好朋友比如說中東歐的這些國家所以這個是我們整體的這個戰略的思考也因此如果說看在那個我們雖然說有喪失了幾個邦交國"},{"start":291.431,"end":304.204,"text":"可是一般國民對我們在處理外交他們的看法目前仍然保持相當的這個正面的狀況之下我想我們的這個外交的戰略似乎是受到國人的肯定"},{"start":305.882,"end":323.231,"text":"部長雖然這樣子的說法四平八穩可是我們的邦交國一直丟失的情況之下我們也很怕他骨牌效應越來越迅速所以其實剛剛我們提到的有很多我們用力很深的這些國家其實他們不管在一些國際組織或者應該有的"},{"start":326.953,"end":332.337,"text":"幫我們爭取或發言的情況之下他們從來沒有幫我們講過話就是在一個正常的國際組織裡面其實他們沒有他們都是在平常的情況之下一直大概在這個部分會支持我們可是在正式的一個場合國際場合裡面從來沒有反而是我們的邦交國可以幫我們提案可以幫我們發言的越來越少了所以就這些部分因為為什麼要特別提到這個"},{"start":355.615,"end":357.736,"text":"美國今年他已經又要大選所以當川普總統或拜登他們兩位不管是誰當選尤其是川普因為其實他跟俄羅斯的關係尤其跟普丁的關係其實基本上好像是還不錯"},{"start":375.606,"end":379.91,"text":"就他的言論包括他最近接受英國媒體訪問的時候他也宣稱如果北約國家受到攻擊的時候美國會提供援助可是他的前提是這些國家在國防上要支出合理的份額"},{"start":393.297,"end":399.301,"text":"甚至他還表示他曾經跟這些應該履行這些財政責任的成員國就北約嘛跟他們表明說如果他們沒有履行足夠的這樣的財務的合理份額的話他會鼓勵俄羅斯攻擊這些國家美國不會協防"},{"start":415.731,"end":438.15,"text":"以川普這樣子的說法包括過去他在任的時候他就常常退群然後他對我們台灣可能有很多的承諾其實他也不願意履行如果以他商人的性格他再次當選的時候他連北約的國家他都可以他都想要退出或者甚至如果他繳的錢不夠的時候他都鼓勵俄羅斯要去打他們"},{"start":442.273,"end":456.395,"text":"他這種話都講得出來了所以當我們一直認為說美國一定會全力支持我們或可以支援我們到什麼樣的程度的時候我們到底可以有多少信任或者我們可以期待多少這個才是我們擔心的"},{"start":457.737,"end":466.981,"text":"所以如果美國都這樣子的話那其他的國家就更不用說了因為每一個國家你看他們在跟中國其實都有存在競爭或者也擔心他們的發展會衝擊到他們不管各方面的利益或發展的時候其實他們還會採取對抗的態度可是在對抗當中他們都有不斷不斷的跟他們在某些方面還有合作"},{"start":484.428,"end":484.468,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":503.789,"end":519.048,"text":"謝謝委員有關於我們跟美國之間的這個關係如果說以美國的國會當作一面鏡子來看的話美國在國會山莊上面對台灣的支持這個是跨黨派的"},{"start":520.649,"end":547.603,"text":"其實川普在第一任當總統之前他的這種個性也已經展露無遺的可是當在他那個擔任美國總統的時候我們跟美國之間的關係卻是大幅度改善的四年我相信未來不管是誰擔任美國的總統我們都有把握能夠跟美國的兩黨依然保持非常密切的關係"},{"start":548.744,"end":560.573,"text":"在過去這段時間我們看到我們台灣跟美國之間的這個合作尤其是安全合作的這個加強已經是非常建制化的所以跟美國的關係應該是不會受到政權輪廓的影響這是時間的關係因為我剛剛先覺得條件已經有提到了因為台海的穩定牽涉到美國的整體的利益也牽涉到其他國家的利益所以他們會希望這裡維持"},{"start":574.244,"end":574.304,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":597.904,"end":613.065,"text":"我們現在面臨的困境還是非常的多因為剛剛大家講到太平島的部分太平島因為部長剛剛也有很多委員在詢問就您的看法什麼時間才是最適合的"},{"start":615.725,"end":631.995,"text":"我想這個應該由國安單位那邊全盤的來考量就是說總統那邊的每一個動作我們都必須要去思考到是不是符合我們國家最大的利益那當然可能有不同的時間點不同的這個政策的背景的這個考量"},{"start":632.861,"end":637.045,"text":"因為以蔡總統來說他已經要卸任了他再不去他也沒有時間去了以他總統的身份所以過去為什麼有兩任總統他們在卸任之前他們都去登島宣誓既然太平島是我們國家的領土"},{"start":648.055,"end":671.1,"text":"我們要去自己的土地上面為什麼還要看別人的臉色還要擔心別人會不會生氣今天如果南海有什麼樣的動盪或不安其實包括很多的聲索國還包括很多國家跟中國之間他們的利益衝突其實才是南海現在最主要的衝突的原因可是既然大家都說太平島是我們的領土沒有錯的情況之下那我們擔心什麼呢"},{"start":676.221,"end":679.282,"text":"蔡總統去那裡又會有什麼樣的危險呢因為以現在來說大家都希望和平穩定的情況之下他現在去其實是最安全的因為沒有人會動他所以這個部分我想大家在講他的時間點到底是什麼因為說那裡因為有插了我們的國旗那裡有我們的海巡人員在那裡駐守所以其實不去也沒關係那部長還有總統為什麼要"},{"start":703.51,"end":703.55,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":722.242,"end":736.464,"text":"我們對於我們自己的主權是非常在意的所以我們重視的當我們島變焦的時候我們只能抗議然後八年默默的就過去了然後登島其實它就是一個宣誓的意義不是嗎"},{"start":737.662,"end":743.344,"text":"我相信這個時候沒有什麼中共得利啦每次要講什麼的時候中國的那個議題就來了這這個中國可以獲得什麼利益從我們過去兩任的總統他是民進黨民選的總統陳水扁或國民黨的總統馬英九他們兩個去他們讓中共得了什麼利其實他們反而讓國際社會看到我們捍衛主權的決心所以我不曉得大家的評斷說那裡會有什麼樣的危險因為"},{"start":767.29,"end":767.31,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":787.796,"end":789.497,"text":"我簡單有關於這個議題我很簡單的跟那個委員回應一下就是說我們委員會這邊我們造委這邊要做什麼樣的決定"},{"start":803.989,"end":831.508,"text":"我們就完全尊重我相信政府的相關部門尤其是國防部那邊都會配合但是太平島是屬於我們的主權範圍這個是我們的內政所以今天早上很多的這些委員朋友在問外交部長有關於太平島的事情的時候都覺得有點怪怪的那個是內政的議題而不是外交的這個議題但是如果說要有這種外交的這種牽強的話就是宣示主權"},{"start":832.268,"end":858.584,"text":"那我們可以一而再再而三的來說明太平島就是我們的主權這一點無庸置疑謝謝委員今天部長因為如果大家是要去墾丁大概就沒有這種問題啊因為他要去太平島嘛那所以其實還有很多其他的國家是有爭議的所以才會牽扯到這麼多所以我們在這裡也是希望在當大家都已經表態的時候我們當然也要發出自己的聲音還要有捍衛的決心"},{"start":861.185,"end":880.099,"text":"這是我們在這裡提出來的國家元首本來對這個部分應該要讓大家放心而且也帶領所有的國人捍衛自己的國土尤其部長其實也不是內政或外交的問題因為你比較宏觀你看過世界的大風大浪很多的場面所以在這裡請教你應該也是對的啦"},{"start":882.06,"end":882.501,"text":"主席"}]}}}}