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11:26:35","影片長度":"00:09:22","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":562,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:26:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:17:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":520,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時17分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：好，院長。"],["廖院長俊智：范委員好。"],["范委員雲：院長早安。今天因為時間的緣故，不知道能不能兩題都問完，第一題是院士行為倫理準則的議題，第二題是要肯定中研院有主動處理不對等權勢關係的性騷的相關準則。院長應該知道今年是幾年嘛，西元幾年？"],["廖院長俊智：2024。"],["范委員雲：院長有印象2019年的時候，因為有相關院士的爭議，當時中研院就已經表達要開始處理院士倫理準則，我和蘇巧慧委員也曾經跟中研院的吳叡人研究員針對香港城市大學校長郭位以及香港大學打壓學生會、校長張翔被批不適任的時候有開記者會，因為有好幾位是我們的院士，當時就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權。我自己在2021年的時候有質詢過，當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分。2021年到現在已經3年了，我想我對中研院應該是真的非常地溫柔、非常好，你剛剛講今年是2024年，我過了3年才跟你們詢問進度，但是從你們答應，就是在媒體說會檢討是2019年，到現在已經5年了，院長，因為我看你們的網站，這些有爭議的院士都還掛在那裡，顯然都沒有處理，我也要先講，我們並不是特例，並不是針對中研院有特別的要求，我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到，我們有去查了，其實美國的院士、英國的院士，還有澳洲的院士，他們的院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定，譬如說，美國國家院士有包含不得有harassment、discrimination還有bullying，就是歧視、騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行，美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financial relationship──就是研究的資金是哪裡來，因為可能會影響研究的結果，例如之前被懷疑收中國資金的院士，可能就有背叛國家等相關影響，如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府單位的話，其實也違反了美國院士自己的規定，而他也是我們中華民國的院士，所以我想各國都有先例。","中研院在科技的部分，像我們在講ChatGPT都是跟各國同步嘛，那在院士倫理準則這部分好像腳步相當慢喔，請問院長，從2021年我質詢、我還有通過預算案，那你們開始啟動到現在，這3年的進度如何？"],["廖院長俊智：事實上，這個案子是我2019年就啟動了。"],["范委員雲：2019年啟動，所以已經5年了，對不對？"],["廖院長俊智：因為這個不是我們院內部可以處理的問題，是在院士會議，所以我首先請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議，成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則，後來也成立了；但是下一任的主席好像也因故沒辦法續任，所以中間又換了一些人；一直到今年我們才有行為準則草案提出，我們會在今年的院士會議中討論，這完全要靠院士會議的決策機構。"],["范委員雲：所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了，所以這個其實……"],["廖院長俊智：草案，是的。"],["范委員雲：草案了，2019年到現在5年的時間！您剛剛講遇到一些召集人過世等不幸的事情，延宕下來。我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者，也有人是兼其他國家的院士，他應該非常知道世界的、國際的原則，對不對？那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎？就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由、人權等。"],["廖院長俊智：大部分的方向應該都是有，據我瞭解，院士們在討論這個的時候都會參照其他國家的院士行為準則，但也不會每一句就照著翻譯，也會以我們自己的角度提出不同看法，那院士之間有不同的論述，所以這個會納入綜合考量。"],["范委員雲：基本上，國際這些民主國家院士準則的核心概念你們都會有嘛，我想學術的integrity，當然還有包含我剛剛講的歧視、騷擾、霸凌還有揭露財務的來源，因為這會影響研究的結果，還有包含不得傷害學術自由、民主人權這部分應該都會有嘛。"],["廖院長俊智：對，除此之外，很大的一個意見就是院士們認為這除了是一個負面表列之外，是不是要有個正面表列的？這方向確實仍然在討論當中，委員曉得院士們要通過一個案子都非常小心謹慎。"],["范委員雲：當然。"],["廖院長俊智：每一條、每一個字句都經過很多的斟酌，所以時間會稍微久一點，是這個原因。"],["范委員雲：謝謝院長說明得很詳細，院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持，但是code of conduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的、會傷害中研院最高學術榮譽的。請問院長，今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候？會通過嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：7月1號，我們會提出來討論，那通過、不通過當然看大會表決，我們希望大家能夠儘快達成一個共識，我們已經排定議程。"],["范委員雲：所以在議程當中了？"],["廖院長俊智：對，在議程當中。"],["范委員雲：所以有機會在7月之內通過？"],["廖院長俊智：對，這要看大家討論結果，至少現在已經排入議程。"],["范委員雲：通過之後，之前違反的部分有機會被處理嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫。"],["范委員雲：所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎？因為我看美國、其他國家也會把怎麼處理的機制procedure都講得非常清楚。"],["廖院長俊智：目前討論的好像確實是這樣。"],["范委員雲：懲罰包含暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有，這些也都會有嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：這個恐怕我不確定。"],["范委員雲：不確定喔？"],["廖院長俊智：對，因為……"],["范委員雲：不能有一個抽象的東西、沒有處理機制，然後沒有懲罰，這樣就沒有用了，變成是貼在黑板上的口號。"],["廖院長俊智：沒錯，這也是院士之間很多不同意見中的一項，看要不要納入，譬如說美國國家科學院當初是把它納入行為準則，後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理，就準則本身沒有這個部分。"],["范委員雲：至少我看到裡面都有把committee、procedure提出來。"],["廖院長俊智：因為美國國家科學院、工程院還有醫學院的每個版本都稍微不一樣，所以到底哪一個比較適合中研院院士的作法，院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見，並不是……"],["范委員雲：當然，但是我想我們中研院的科技水平引領世界，甚至有些部分不僅是同步，甚至還引領，但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高權力、自我約束，我希望這個部分不要落後世界民主國家的水平太多，好嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則，沒有procedure跟懲罰，那這樣子會傷害中研院做為一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["范委員雲：剛剛那部分給我們辦公室一個報告，好嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：好，我們把目前討論情形，因為這在院士會議的committee裡面做……"],["范委員雲：當然、當然，我們尊重你們自己的方向跟規劃，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["范委員雲：謝謝了，因為我對中研院已經3年沒有問這題了，真的是非常溫柔了，謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員。","吳思瑤委員，列席的4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":392,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","萬美玲","張雅琳","吳春城","陳培瑜","謝衣鳯","范雲","吳思瑤","葉元之","林倩綺"],"page_start":341,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150131","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150131","tool":"pyannote","id":"150131-pyannote"},"job_id":"7f4ccW4NaVx0Q2su","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 553.099, \"end\": 553.239, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 553.239, \"end\": 553.339, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 553.339, \"end\": 553.359, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 554.979, \"end\": 555.36, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 555.36, \"end\": 555.38, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,409 --> 00:00:28,145\n范委員好院長早安今天因為時間的緣故不知道能不能兩題都問完那第一題就是院士行為倫理準則的議題第二題就是第二題是要肯定中原有主動處理不對等的權勢關係的性騷的相關的準則這個下一頁\n\n2\n00:00:34,931 --> 00:00:36,852\n中央研究院\n\n3\n00:00:52,139 --> 00:00:52,439\n執行委員\n\n4\n00:01:10,150 --> 00:01:26,771\n還有香港大學打壓學生會校長張翔被批不是人的時候當時我們就有開記者會因為有好幾位是我們的院士就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含就是不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權\n\n5\n00:01:27,692 --> 00:01:41,448\n我自己在2021��2021年的時候有質詢（當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分（2021年到現在已經三年了（\n\n6\n00:01:42,669 --> 00:01:43,129\n中央研究院院長范雲\n\n7\n00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:38,722\n我們並不是特例並不是針對眾議院的特別的要求那我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到我們有去相查了其實美國的院士英國的院士還有澳洲的院士院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定比如說美國國家院士有包含就是不得有harassmentdiscrimination還有bullying\n\n8\n00:02:39,042 --> 00:03:06,542\n就是歧視騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financialrelationship就是研究的資金是哪裡來的因為可能會影響研究的結果那之前被懷疑就是說收中國資金的院士可能就是背叛國家影響的部分那他其實如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府的話其實也違反了\n\n9\n00:03:07,082 --> 00:03:08,482\n請問院長從2021��2021年我直詢．還有通過預算案．那你們開始啟動．到現在這3年的進度如何好嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:34,167 --> 00:03:48,695\n事實上這個案子是我2019年就啟動的2019年啟動所以已經5年了對不對那是因為這個不是在我們院內部可以處理的問題是在院士會議所以我首先\n\n11\n00:03:49,395 --> 00:04:10,747\n是請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議要成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則後來也成立了但是下一任的主席好像也因\n\n12\n00:04:11,667 --> 00:04:12,048\n李卓人議員\n\n13\n00:04:28,964 --> 00:04:57,637\n所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了所以這個其實2011草案了2019年大概五年的時間真的那您剛講遇到一些就是那個召集人過世這些不幸的事情那研拓下來那可以請問因為我想我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者也有人是兼就是其他的國家的院士他應該非常知道世界的國際的原則對不對那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎\n\n14\n00:04:58,177 --> 00:05:19,631\n就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由人權等大部分的方向應該都是有因為據我了解院士們在討論這個時候都會參照其他國家的院士的行為準則但也不會說是每一句就照著翻譯也會\n\n15\n00:05:21,552 --> 00:05:46,571\n以我們自己的角度提出不同看法那院士之間有不同的論述所以這個會納入這種考量所以基本上的就是說國際這些民主國家的院士準則和新的概念你們都會有嗎我想學術的integrity當然還有包含就是說我剛講的歧視騷擾還有霸凌還有就是揭露\n\n16\n00:05:46,971 --> 00:05:46,991\n范雲議員\n\n17\n00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:09,889\n范雲議員\n\n18\n00:06:26,489 --> 00:06:45,341\n謝謝院長說明的很詳細我想院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持那就是說但是CodeofConduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的會傷害我們中研院這個最高學術的榮譽那請問院長所以今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候會通過嗎7月1號這個我們會提出來討論那通過不通過大家看大會表決我們希望說大家能夠儘快達成一個共識\n\n19\n00:06:55,007 --> 00:06:58,711\n我們已經排定議程所以在議程當中了對,在議程當中所以有機會在7月之內通過對,這要看大家討論的結果至少說現在已經排入議程\n\n20\n00:07:09,461 --> 00:07:35,687\n通過之後之前違反的這個部分有機會被處理嗎?那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫的所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎?因為我看美國其他國家也會把怎麼處理機制都講得非常清楚這好像確實是現在目前討論的懲罰包含就是說暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有這些也都會有嗎?這個恐怕我不確定不確定喔?\n\n21\n00:07:37,387 --> 00:08:04,050\n不能有一個抽象的東西沒有處理機制然後沒有懲罰這樣就沒有用了變成是那個貼在黑板上的口號就沒有了這也是院士之間的很多不同的意見中間的一項看是要不要納入比如說美國國家科學院當初是把他納入行為準則後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理就準則本身沒有提的這部分至少我看到裡面都有把committeeprocedure都有提出來這樣子\n\n22\n00:08:06,112 --> 00:08:21,683\n美國的國家科學院還有工程院還有醫學院每個都稍微版本不一樣到底哪一個比較適合中央醫院院士會做法院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見\n\n23\n00:08:23,945 --> 00:08:45,871\n但是我想我們中研院科技的水平是引領世界甚至就是說有些部分不僅是說同步甚至還引領的但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高的權利自我約束我希望這個部分不要落後我們世界就是說民主國家的水平太多好嗎\n\n24\n00:08:46,751 --> 00:09:13,359\n我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則沒有procedure跟懲罰那這樣子會傷害中研院做一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽好不好那剛剛的部分可以給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎好就是我們把這目前討論的情形我們可以因為這是在院士會議的那個當然當然我們是尊重就是你們自己的方向跟規劃好不好\n\n25\n00:09:14,979 --> 00:09:15,380\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n60\t8933\t響鐘\n12409\t28145\t范委員好院長早安今天因為時間的緣故不知道能不能兩題都問完那第一題就是院士行為倫理準則的議題第二題就是第二題是要肯定中原有主動處理不對等的權勢關係的性騷的相關的準則這個下一頁\n34931\t36852\t中央研究院\n52139\t52439\t執行委員\n70150\t86771\t還有香港大學打壓學生會校長張翔被批不是人的時候當時我們就有開記者會因為有好幾位是我們的院士就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含就是不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權\n87692\t101448\t我自己在2021��2021年的時候有質詢（當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分（2021年到現在已經三年了（\n102669\t103129\t中央研究院院長范雲\n129600\t158722\t我們並不是特例並不是針對眾議院的特別的要求那我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到我們有去相查了其實美國的院士英國的院士還有澳洲的院士院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定比如說美國國家院士有包含就是不得有harassmentdiscrimination還有bullying\n159042\t186542\t就是歧視騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financial relationship就是研究的資金是哪裡來的因為可能會影響研究的結果那之前被懷疑就是說收中國資金的院士可能就是背叛國家影響的部分那他其實如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府的話其實也違反了\n187082\t188482\t請問院長從2021��2021年我直詢．還有通過預算案．那你們開始啟動．到現在這3年的進度如何好嗎?\n214167\t228695\t事實上這個案子是我2019年就啟動的2019年啟動所以已經5年了對不對那是因為這個不是在我們院內部可以處理的問題是在院士會議所以我首先\n229395\t250747\t是請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議要成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則後來也成立了但是下一任的主席好像也因\n251667\t252048\t李卓人議員\n268964\t297637\t所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了所以這個其實2011草案了2019年大概五年的時間真的那您剛講遇到一些就是那個召集人過世這些不幸的事情那研拓下來那可以請問因為我想我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者也有人是兼就是其他的國家的院士他應該非常知道世界的國際的原則對不對那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎\n298177\t319631\t就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由人權等大部分的方向應該都是有因為據我了解院士們在討論這個時候都會參照其他國家的院士的行為準則但也不會說是每一句就照著翻譯也會\n321552\t346571\t以我們自己的角度提出不同看法那院士之間有不同的論述所以這個會納入這種考量所以基本上的就是說國際這些民主國家的院士準則和新的概念你們都會有嗎我想學術的integrity當然還有包含就是說我剛講的歧視騷擾還有霸凌還有就是揭露\n346971\t346991\t范雲議員\n369869\t369889\t范雲議員\n386489\t405341\t謝謝院長說明的很詳細我想院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持那就是說但是Code of Conduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的會傷害我們中研院這個最高學術的榮譽那請問院長所以今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候會通過嗎7月1號這個我們會提出來討論那通過不通過大家看大會表決我們希望說大家能夠儘快達成一個共識\n415007\t418711\t我們已經排定議程所以在議程當中了對,在議程當中所以有機會在7月之內通過對,這要看大家討論的結果至少說現在已經排入議程\n429461\t455687\t通過之後之前違反的這個部分有機會被處理嗎?那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫的所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎?因為我看美國其他國家也會把怎麼處理機制都講得非常清楚這好像確實是現在目前討論的懲罰包含就是說暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有這些也都會有嗎?這個恐怕我不確定不確定喔?\n457387\t484050\t不能有一個抽象的東西沒有處理機制然後沒有懲罰這樣就沒有用了變成是那個貼在黑板上的口號就沒有了這也是院士之間的很多不同的意見中間的一項看是要不要納入比如說美國國家科學院當初是把他納入行為準則後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理就準則本身沒有提的這部分至少我看到裡面都有把committee procedure都有提出來這樣子\n486112\t501683\t美國的國家科學院還有工程院還有醫學院每個都稍微版本不一樣到底哪一個比較適合中央醫院院士會做法院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見\n503945\t525871\t但是我想我們中研院科技的水平是引領世界甚至就是說有些部分不僅是說同步甚至還引領的但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高的權利自我約束我希望這個部分不要落後我們世界就是說民主國家的水平太多好嗎\n526751\t553359\t我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則沒有procedure跟懲罰那這樣子會傷害中研院做一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽好不好那剛剛的部分可以給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎好就是我們把這目前討論的情形我們可以因為這是在院士會議的那個當然當然我們是尊重就是你們自己的方向跟規劃好不好\n554979\t555380\t主席\n","txt":"響鐘\n范委員好院長早安今天因為時間的緣故不知道能不能兩題都問完那第一題就是院士行為倫理準則的議題第二題就是第二題是要肯定中原有主動處理不對等的權勢關係的性騷的相關的準則這個下一頁\n中央研究院\n執行委員\n還有香港大學打壓學生會校長張翔被批不是人的時候當時我們就有開記者會因為有好幾位是我們的院士就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含就是不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權\n我自己在2021��2021年的時候有質詢（當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分（2021年到現在已經三年了（\n中央研究院院長范雲\n我們並不是特例並不是針對眾議院的特別的要求那我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到我們有去相查了其實美國的院士英國的院士還有澳洲的院士院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定比如說美國國家院士有包含就是不得有harassmentdiscrimination還有bullying\n就是歧視騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financial relationship就是研究的資金是哪裡來的因為可能會影響研究的結果那之前被懷疑就是說收中國資金的院士可能就是背叛國家影響的部分那他其實如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府的話其實也違反了\n請問院長從2021��2021年我直詢．還有通過預算案．那你們開始啟動．到現在這3年的進度如何好嗎?\n事實上這個案子是我2019年就啟動的2019年啟動所以已經5年了對不對那是因為這個不是在我們院內部可以處理的問題是在院士會議所以我首先\n是請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議要成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則後來也成立了但是下一任的主席好像也因\n李卓人議員\n所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了所以這個其實2011草案了2019年大概五年的時間真的那您剛講遇到一些就是那個召集人過世這些不幸的事情那研拓下來那可以請問因為我想我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者也有人是兼就是其他的國家的院士他應該非常知道世界的國際的原則對不對那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎\n就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由人權等大部分的方向應該都是有因為據我了解院士們在討論這個時候都會參照其他國家的院士的行為準則但也不會說是每一句就照著翻譯也會\n以我們自己的角度提出不同看法那院士之間有不同的論述所以這個會納入這種考量所以基本上的就是說國際這些民主國家的院士準則和新的概念你們都會有嗎我想學術的integrity當然還有包含就是說我剛講的歧視騷擾還有霸凌還有就是揭露\n范雲議員\n范雲議員\n謝謝院長說明的很詳細我想院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持那就是說但是Code of Conduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的會傷害我們中研院這個最高學術的榮譽那請問院長所以今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候會通過嗎7月1號這個我們會提出來討論那通過不通過大家看大會表決我們希望說大家能夠儘快達成一個共識\n我們已經排定議程所以在議程當中了對,在議程當中所以有機會在7月之內通過對,這要看大家討論的結果至少說現在已經排入議程\n通過之後之前違反的這個部分有機會被處理嗎?那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫的所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎?因為我看美國其他國家也會把怎麼處理機制都講得非常清楚這好像確實是現在目前討論的懲罰包含就是說暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有這些也都會有嗎?這個恐怕我不確定不確定喔?\n不能有一個抽象的東西沒有處理機制然後沒有懲罰這樣就沒有用了變成是那個貼在黑板上的口號就沒有了這也是院士之間的很多不同的意見中間的一項看是要不要納入比如說美國國家科學院當初是把他納入行為準則後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理就準則本身沒有提的這部分至少我看到裡面都有把committee procedure都有提出來這樣子\n美國的國家科學院還有工程院還有醫學院每個都稍微版本不一樣到底哪一個比較適合中央醫院院士會做法院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見\n但是我想我們中研院科技的水平是引領世界甚至就是說有些部分不僅是說同步甚至還引領的但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高的權利自我約束我希望這個部分不要落後我們世界就是說民主國家的水平太多好嗎\n我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則沒有procedure跟懲罰那這樣子會傷害中研院做一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽好不好那剛剛的部分可以給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎好就是我們把這目前討論的情形我們可以因為這是在院士會議的那個當然當然我們是尊重就是你們自己的方向跟規劃好不好\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.409 --> 00:28.145\n范委員好院長早安今天因為時間的緣故不知道能不能兩題都問完那第一題就是院士行為倫理準則的議題第二題就是第二題是要肯定中原有主動處理不對等的權勢關係的性騷的相關的準則這個下一頁\n\n00:34.931 --> 00:36.852\n中央研究院\n\n00:52.139 --> 00:52.439\n執行委員\n\n01:10.150 --> 01:26.771\n還有香港大學打壓學生會校長張翔被批不是人的時候當時我們就有開記者會因為有好幾位是我們的院士就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含就是不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權\n\n01:27.692 --> 01:41.448\n我自己在2021��2021年的時候有質詢（當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分（2021年到現在已經三年了（\n\n01:42.669 --> 01:43.129\n中央研究院院長范雲\n\n02:09.600 --> 02:38.722\n我們並不是特例並不是針對眾議院的特別的要求那我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到我們有去相查了其實美國的院士英國的院士還有澳洲的院士院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定比如說美國國家院士有包含就是不得有harassmentdiscrimination還有bullying\n\n02:39.042 --> 03:06.542\n就是歧視騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financialrelationship就是研究的資金是哪裡來的因為可能會影響研究的結果那之前被懷疑就是說收中國資金的院士可能就是背叛國家影響的部分那他其實如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府的話其實也違反了\n\n03:07.082 --> 03:08.482\n請問院長從2021��2021年我直詢．還有通過預算案．那你們開始啟動．到現在這3年的進度如何好嗎?\n\n03:34.167 --> 03:48.695\n事實上這個案子是我2019年就啟動的2019年啟動所以已經5年了對不對那是因為這個不是在我們院內部可以處理的問題是在院士會議所以我首先\n\n03:49.395 --> 04:10.747\n是請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議要成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則後來也成立了但是下一任的主席好像也因\n\n04:11.667 --> 04:12.048\n李卓人議員\n\n04:28.964 --> 04:57.637\n所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了所以這個其實2011草案了2019年大概五年的時間真的那您剛講遇到一些就是那個召集人過世這些不幸的事情那研拓下來那可以請問因為我想我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者也有人是兼就是其他的國家的院士他應該非常知道世界的國際的原則對不對那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎\n\n04:58.177 --> 05:19.631\n就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由人權等大部分的方向應該都是有因為據我了解院士們在討論這個時候都會參照其他國家的院士的行為準則但也不會說是每一句就照著翻譯也會\n\n05:21.552 --> 05:46.571\n以我們自己的角度提出不同看法那院士之間有不同的論述所以這個會納入這種考量所以基本上的就是說國際這些民主國家的院士準則和新的概念你們都會有嗎我想學術的integrity當然還有包含就是說我剛講的歧視騷擾還有霸凌還有就是揭露\n\n05:46.971 --> 05:46.991\n范雲議員\n\n06:09.869 --> 06:09.889\n范雲議員\n\n06:26.489 --> 06:45.341\n謝謝院長說明的很詳細我想院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持那就是說但是CodeofConduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的會傷害我們中研院這個最高學術的榮譽那請問院長所以今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候會通過嗎7月1號這個我們會提出來討論那通過不通過大家看大會表決我們希望說大家能夠儘快達成一個共識\n\n06:55.007 --> 06:58.711\n我們已經排定議程所以在議程當中了對,在議程當中所以有機會在7月之內通過對,這要看大家討論的結果至少說現在已經排入議程\n\n07:09.461 --> 07:35.687\n通過之後之前違反的這個部分有機會被處理嗎?那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫的所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎?因為我看美國其他國家也會把怎麼處理機制都講得非常清楚這好像確實是現在目前討論的懲罰包含就是說暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有這些也都會有嗎?這個恐怕我不確定不確定喔?\n\n07:37.387 --> 08:04.050\n不能有一個抽象的東西沒有處理機制然後沒有懲罰這樣就沒有用了變成是那個貼在黑板上的口號就沒有了這也是院士之間的很多不同的意見中間的一項看是要不要納入比如說美國國家科學院當初是把他納入行為準則後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理就準則本身沒有提的這部分至少我看到裡面都有把committeeprocedure都有提出來這樣子\n\n08:06.112 --> 08:21.683\n美國的國家科學院還有工程院還有醫學院每個都稍微版本不一樣到底哪一個比較適合中央醫院院士會做法院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見\n\n08:23.945 --> 08:45.871\n但是我想我們中研院科技的水平是引領世界甚至就是說有些部分不僅是說同步甚至還引領的但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高的權利自我約束我希望這個部分不要落後我們世界就是說民主國家的水平太多好嗎\n\n08:46.751 --> 09:13.359\n我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則沒有procedure跟懲罰那這樣子會傷害中研院做一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽好不好那剛剛的部分可以給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎好就是我們把這目前討論的情形我們可以因為這是在院士會議的那個當然當然我們是尊重就是你們自己的方向跟規劃好不好\n\n09:14.979 --> 09:15.380\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.06,"end":8.933,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":12.409,"end":28.145,"text":"范委員好院長早安今天因為時間的緣故不知道能不能兩題都問完那第一題就是院士行為倫理準則的議題第二題就是第二題是要肯定中原有主動處理不對等的權勢關係的性騷的相關的準則這個下一頁"},{"start":34.931,"end":36.852,"text":"中央研究院"},{"start":52.139,"end":52.439,"text":"執行委員"},{"start":70.15,"end":86.771,"text":"還有香港大學打壓學生會校長張翔被批不是人的時候當時我們就有開記者會因為有好幾位是我們的院士就覺得院士倫理準則應該要包含就是不得傷害學術自由跟相關的民主人權"},{"start":87.692,"end":101.448,"text":"我自己在2021��2021年的時候有質詢（當時院長也有答應我會檢討這個部分（2021年到現在已經三年了（"},{"start":102.669,"end":103.129,"text":"中央研究院院長范雲"},{"start":129.6,"end":158.722,"text":"我們並不是特例並不是針對眾議院的特別的要求那我在2021年質詢的時候就有提到我們有去相查了其實美國的院士英國的院士還有澳洲的院士院士倫理準則都有一些非常清楚的規定比如說美國國家院士有包含就是不得有harassmentdiscrimination還有bullying"},{"start":159.042,"end":186.542,"text":"就是歧視騷擾跟霸凌的行為都不行美國的院士還有要求要揭露他的financial relationship就是研究的資金是哪裡來的因為可能會影響研究的結果那之前被懷疑就是說收中國資金的院士可能就是背叛國家影響的部分那他其實如果沒有揭露他的研究資金來自北京政府的話其實也違反了"},{"start":187.082,"end":188.482,"text":"請問院長從2021��2021年我直詢．還有通過預算案．那你們開始啟動．到現在這3年的進度如何好嗎?"},{"start":214.167,"end":228.695,"text":"事實上這個案子是我2019年就啟動的2019年啟動所以已經5年了對不對那是因為這個不是在我們院內部可以處理的問題是在院士會議所以我首先"},{"start":229.395,"end":250.747,"text":"是請已經過世的陳定信院士在院士會議提出一個動議要成立一個委員會來處理是否要在院士群當中設立一個行為準則後來也成立了但是下一任的主席好像也因"},{"start":251.667,"end":252.048,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":268.964,"end":297.637,"text":"所以現在終於提出行為原則的準則了所以這個其實2011草案了2019年大概五年的時間真的那您剛講遇到一些就是那個召集人過世這些不幸的事情那研拓下來那可以請問因為我想我們院士有這麼多國際的一流學者也有人是兼就是其他的國家的院士他應該非常知道世界的國際的原則對不對那我們的準則草案裡面有包含我剛剛所講的那幾個部分嗎"},{"start":298.177,"end":319.631,"text":"就是騷擾、歧視、霸凌還有傷害學術自由人權等大部分的方向應該都是有因為據我了解院士們在討論這個時候都會參照其他國家的院士的行為準則但也不會說是每一句就照著翻譯也會"},{"start":321.552,"end":346.571,"text":"以我們自己的角度提出不同看法那院士之間有不同的論述所以這個會納入這種考量所以基本上的就是說國際這些民主國家的院士準則和新的概念你們都會有嗎我想學術的integrity當然還有包含就是說我剛講的歧視騷擾還有霸凌還有就是揭露"},{"start":346.971,"end":346.991,"text":"范雲議員"},{"start":369.869,"end":369.889,"text":"范雲議員"},{"start":386.489,"end":405.341,"text":"謝謝院長說明的很詳細我想院士要正面表列當然我們也很支持那就是說但是Code of Conduct主要是講不能夠違反哪些基本的會傷害我們中研院這個最高學術的榮譽那請問院長所以今年的院士會議是7月什麼時候會通過嗎7月1號這個我們會提出來討論那通過不通過大家看大會表決我們希望說大家能夠儘快達成一個共識"},{"start":415.007,"end":418.711,"text":"我們已經排定議程所以在議程當中了對,在議程當中所以有機會在7月之內通過對,這要看大家討論的結果至少說現在已經排入議程"},{"start":429.461,"end":455.687,"text":"通過之後之前違反的這個部分有機會被處理嗎?那要看大家通過的條文是怎麼寫的所以裡面也會講處理的機制嗎?因為我看美國其他國家也會把怎麼處理機制都講得非常清楚這好像確實是現在目前討論的懲罰包含就是說暫停院士職務到最嚴重的取消都有這些也都會有嗎?這個恐怕我不確定不確定喔?"},{"start":457.387,"end":484.05,"text":"不能有一個抽象的東西沒有處理機制然後沒有懲罰這樣就沒有用了變成是那個貼在黑板上的口號就沒有了這也是院士之間的很多不同的意見中間的一項看是要不要納入比如說美國國家科學院當初是把他納入行為準則後來好像變成是用其他的機制來處理就準則本身沒有提的這部分至少我看到裡面都有把committee procedure都有提出來這樣子"},{"start":486.112,"end":501.683,"text":"美國的國家科學院還有工程院還有醫學院每個都稍微版本不一樣到底哪一個比較適合中央醫院院士會做法院士之間仍然是有一些不同的意見"},{"start":503.945,"end":525.871,"text":"但是我想我們中研院科技的水平是引領世界甚至就是說有些部分不僅是說同步甚至還引領的但是行為準則是一個比較人文社會科學方面的最高的權利自我約束我希望這個部分不要落後我們世界就是說民主國家的水平太多好嗎"},{"start":526.751,"end":553.359,"text":"我想不能夠只有一個抽象的道德原則沒有procedure跟懲罰那這樣子會傷害中研院做一個最高學術殿堂跟院士集體的聲譽好不好那剛剛的部分可以給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎好就是我們把這目前討論的情形我們可以因為這是在院士會議的那個當然當然我們是尊重就是你們自己的方向跟規劃好不好"},{"start":554.979,"end":555.38,"text":"主席"}]}}}}