{"id":150133,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150133","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192704fd1c1d8eeb4de1a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a63307f87fd00e1b415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"10:47:12 - 10:54:53","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":461,"end_time":"2024-03-20T10:54:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T10:47:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":467,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（10時47分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。今天審查電子簽章修正草案，修法重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件，以及電子簽章的應用。可是一般企業及個人常常會難理解，到底什麼樣的產品、什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用？加上政府疏於防範資安威脅，因為我們通常會看到個資外洩，還有駭客攻擊事件頻傳，讓人沒有辦法放心，影響電子簽章的推廣。我想請問部長，電子簽章法需要結合個資法及資通安全管理法的修法，且需要強化網路基礎建設才能比較完善。資通安全法是數位發展部的法案……"],["唐部長鳳：是，已經送到行政院了。"],["邱委員若華：昨天也有委員詢問院長，但院長沒有明確答復。可否請問部長，數位發展部的推動時程及瞭解到的時程為何？"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員垂詢。電子簽章法是為了解決委員剛剛提到的，本來用比較弱的身分認證方式，在個資外洩之後可能就會被冒名等等，但數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題，因為一定要本人才能每次都進行簽章動作，所以這本身就是對資安有幫助，這是第一個。第二個，委員剛剛垂詢到資通安全管理法的期程，其實在送院以前，我們已經跟各個相關機關開過協調會議，基本上都把他們的考量納進去。我相信在行政院的協調之下，我們會盡力配合，儘快送到大院。"],["邱委員若華：數發部在去年推動這項法案的時候，也聽到各界不同的聲音，後來如何做彙整？"],["唐部長鳳：其實有一個很重要的關鍵是我們的調度，也就是重大事件的調度權限。當然，地方政府會希望我們要更容易讓他們瞭解到，會不會我們定義重大事件後，結果整年都是重大事件？然後他們的員額就等於被我們用掉了。為此，我們已經做了很多澄清，好比選舉專案等，會有固定的時間，所以是指在那段時間裡就近做調動，不會變成任意調派。"],["邱委員若華：謝謝部長。未來電子簽章法修法通過之後，還要跟國際接軌，這點部長之前也有提到過。也提到在國際應用方面，未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當，我國法院即可承認其電子文件的效力。其他國家對我國電子文件承認的目前狀態是？"],["唐部長鳳：好比我是立陶宛的電子居民，也就是他有發一張數位憑證給我，我可以用立陶宛所承認的簽章來簽章，包含在那邊跨國開戶等。在這個前提底下，我們也希望立陶宛能承認我們這邊的簽章。所以我們有合作協定，也就是用雙方的電子簽章的互相承認來簽，當然，這是立陶宛。在國際上，像美國國家標準技術單位──NIST所制定出來的電子簽章相關準則就是國際通用的，所以我們會優先與NIST談技術上的對接。"],["邱委員若華：目前就是立陶宛……"],["唐部長鳳：NIST之前有回訪我們，我們跟他們說，我們這邊可能會很快三讀通過，屆時希望技術對接的程序能儘快達成。"],["邱委員若華：部長也提到過，此舉可以促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊核定的順暢度，可以具體舉例嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：好比臺歐盟的相關經貿對話，或者是臺英相關的，其實對方也都有說，目前如果要跨境簽一些相關的合約文件或是一些銀行的往來，如果還需要FedEx或其他的物流公司把那一張紙用飛機運來運去的話，其實是增加成本，而且也拖慢處理的速度，如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話，當然是最好的。"],["邱委員若華：所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英？"],["唐部長鳳：臺歐跟臺英都有具體來討論。"],["邱委員若華：有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌，也應該要訂出保證等級分級，才能談如何有效。"],["唐部長鳳：是的。"],["邱委員若華：這方面您的看法？"],["唐部長鳳：我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章比較弱的一級、自行約定的一級，以及數位簽章，就好像有印鑑證明一樣比較高的一級，這也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌，就會變得比較容易。"],["邱委員若華：好，本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊，對方是以製作惡意的梗圖、散播謠言還有恐嚇言論的方式，譬如不選邱若華的話，我每天帶人來開槍，塑造本席負面形象，意圖使本席不當選。我要請教部長，面對這樣新形態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法？就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話，針對這種運用網路科技進行惡質攻擊，造成不管是公眾人物或民眾受影響，您的看法如何？"],["唐部長鳳：現在就是AI的發展已經到任何人有十幾、二十秒錄音，像我們都是公眾人物，我們的錄音現在都直播出去，任何人拿著這個就可以合成幾乎辨認不出來的音檔，好像我們兩個在對話的那種錄音；接下來在影片的部分，我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了。所以未來我們可能要有一個不同的想法，就是如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的。剛剛您提到的輿論操作，一個自然人，他可以創造出1,000個，可能你點進去每個他Facebook的牆，未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣，有正常的生活，但全部都是合成的，這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決。"],["邱委員若華：好。部長，您提到像AI技術，用在正面的方向，可以帶來國家的進步，但如果被不法集團或有心人士利用的話，那帶來的惡質誹謗、假消息，如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪，掌握狀況並且及時因應？"],["唐部長鳳：我想這非常非常重要，首先，我們有一個概念叫做「預先澄清」，像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己deepfake自己的影片，就是要讓大家知道以後眼見不能為憑了，必須要靠查證等等，這是第一個；第二、我們也必須透過像審議式調查的方式，事實上我在民主峰會有講，最近我們就發了十幾萬則簡訊出去，邀請民眾當中有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害，以及哪些是平台也許可以自律，但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的。我們會透過這種審議式民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性。"],["邱委員若華：是，今年美國準備選總統了，俄羅斯也剛剛產生了總統，很多國家都已經實施不在籍投票了，電子簽章法修正草案通過後，如何落實應用在不在籍投票？"],["唐部長鳳：不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為，就是類似公投的連署等等，但是投票並不是電子簽章法裡面說的簽名或蓋章的那個行為。"],["邱委員若華：是，因為現在蠻多國家像英、美、德、法、日本、韓國都已經在實施不同類型的，臺灣如果要......"],["唐部長鳳：我的意思是說在電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能不包含投票這個動作，可能只包含像連署這個動作。"],["邱委員若華：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：邱委員發言完畢。現在請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150133","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150133","tool":"pyannote","id":"150133-pyannote"},"job_id":"ntb9vbwIFv7AO2sb","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 0.989}]}, {\"start\": 246.158, \"end\": 271.996, \"text\": \" OK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 246.158, \"end\": 246.338, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 246.338, \"end\": 246.358, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 246.358, \"end\": 246.478, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 246.478, \"end\": 246.558, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 246.558, \"end\": 246.678, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 246.678, \"end\": 246.839, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 246.839, \"end\": 246.959, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 246.959, \"end\": 247.319, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 247.319, \"end\": 247.559, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"跟\", 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\"軌\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 269.554, \"end\": 269.874, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 269.874, \"end\": 269.954, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 269.954, \"end\": 270.175, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 270.175, \"end\": 270.375, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 270.375, \"end\": 270.615, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 270.615, \"end\": 270.895, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 270.895, \"end\": 271.195, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 271.195, \"end\": 271.976, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 271.976, \"end\": 271.996, \"score\": 0.295}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}]}, {\"start\": 273.897, \"end\": 302.487, \"text\": \"我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 273.897, \"end\": 274.057, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 274.057, \"end\": 274.217, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 274.217, \"end\": 274.757, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 274.757, \"end\": 275.518, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 275.518, \"end\": 275.638, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 275.638, \"end\": 276.038, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 276.038, \"end\": 276.158, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 276.158, \"end\": 276.398, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 276.398, \"end\": 276.538, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 276.538, \"end\": 276.658, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"年\", 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\"end\": 457.255, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 457.255, \"end\": 457.635, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 457.635, \"end\": 458.055, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 458.055, \"end\": 458.075, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,312 --> 00:00:10,074\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長部長好我們今天看到電子簽章修正草案那修法的重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件還有電子簽章的應用可是一般企業然後還有個人都常常常常會比較難理解到什麼樣的產品還有什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用加上政府疏於防範自然威脅因為\n\n2\n00:00:36,269 --> 00:00:58,477\n通常我們會看到各自外線還有駭客公警的事件頻傳讓人沒有辦法放心影響到電子簽章的推廣那我想請問部長電子簽章法需要結合各自法還有資通安全管理法的修法而且需要強化網路基礎建設才比較完善那資通安全法是數位發展部的法案是已經送到行政院\n\n3\n00:00:59,217 --> 00:01:26,142\n那昨天也有委員就是詢問院長那他沒有明確的答覆那可否請部長就是這邊要問部長就是數位發展部的推動時程瞭解到的時程謝謝委員垂詢我們電子簽章法就是為了要解決像委員剛剛提到的本來是用比較弱的身份認證方式那各自外泄之後可能就會被冒名啊等等但是數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題因為一定要他本人才能夠\n\n4\n00:01:26,542 --> 00:01:47,963\n每次來進行簽章的動作所以他本身就是對自然有幫助這第一個那第二個委員剛剛垂詢到自動安全管理法的期程我們其實在送院以前我們已經跟各個相關的機關等等已經有開過協調會議基本上已經把他們的考量都納入進去所以我相信在行政院協調之下應該我們就盡力來配合盡快送到大院\n\n5\n00:01:49,644 --> 00:02:14,086\n數法部在去年推動這項法案的時候也聽到各界不同的聲音後來是如何做會診的?其實有一個很重要的是關於我們調度重大事件調度的這個權限當然地方政府會希望我們更容易讓他們了解到說會不會說我們定義重大事件整年都是重大事件結果他們的緣額就等於被我們用掉了所以我們這個已經做了很多的澄清就是說\n\n6\n00:02:14,486 --> 00:02:21,353\n好比像選舉章案等等他有一個固定的時間是在那段時間裡面究竟來做調動不會變成好像去任意調派這樣\n\n7\n00:02:23,955 --> 00:02:45,145\n那未來電子簽章法修法通過之後還要跟國際借軌那部長您之前也有提到過那有提到在國際應用方面未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當那我國法院即可承認電子文件的效力那其他國家對本國對我國的電子效力的承認目前的狀態是\n\n8\n00:02:46,506 --> 00:03:14,740\n好比像說像我是立陶宛的這個所謂電子居民就是他也有發一張這個數位憑證給我我可以用立陶宛所認的那個簽章來簽章包含在那邊跨國開戶啊等等那在這個前提底下我們也希望立陶宛認我們這邊的簽章所以其實我們有一個合作協定就是用雙方的電子簽章互相承認來簽的但當然這是立陶宛那我想國際上面現在像美國這個國家標準技術相關的單位像NIST這個機構\n\n9\n00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:33,639\n那他所制定出來電子簽章相關的準則基本上是國際是通用的所以我們會優先先跟NIST來談這個技術上面的對接所以目前就是立陶宛跟美國那我們接下來因為NIST之前有回訪我們嘛我們也會盡快跟NIST跟他們說我們這邊很可能很快會三讀通過那希望技術對接程序我們盡快來達成\n\n10\n00:03:34,898 --> 00:04:02,428\n那部長您也提到過那這會促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊合力的順暢度可以具體舉例嗎?好比方說像台歐盟的相關的經貿對話那或者是台英相關的其實對方也都有說目前如果是跨境啊要簽一些相關的合約文件啊或是說一些銀行的往來如果還需要FedEx就是或其他的物流公司把那張紙這個用飛機運來運去的話其實是增加成本而且也拖慢這個處理的速度\n\n11\n00:04:02,748 --> 00:04:05,656\n那如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話這當然是最好的\n\n12\n00:04:06,158 --> 00:04:31,996\nOK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊\n\n13\n00:04:33,897 --> 00:05:02,487\n我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話\n\n14\n00:05:03,007 --> 00:05:03,387\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n15\n00:05:26,227 --> 00:05:52,317\n那接下來在影片的部分我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了所以未來我想我們可能要有一個不同的想法就如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的那他剛剛您說提到這種輿論操作他一個人一個自然人但他創造出一千個可能每個你點進去他的這個Facebook的牆未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣有正常的生活又怎麼樣但全部都是合成的那這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決\n\n16\n00:05:54,743 --> 00:06:12,359\n現在部長您提到像是AI技術那也是像科技也發展的申訴那用在正面方向可以帶來國家的進步那被不法的集團或是有心人士利用的話那帶來的惡質誹謗像是假消息那如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪掌握狀況並且及時因應\n\n17\n00:06:14,825 --> 00:06:36,993\n我想這是非常非常重要首先就是我們有一個概念叫預先澄清像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己de-fake自己的這個影片那這個就讓大家知道說以後眼見不能為憑了必須要靠這個查證等等這是第一個那第二個是說我們也必須要透過像審議室調查的方式那事實上最近我們就有發了我在那個民主峰會有講十幾萬則簡訊出去\n\n18\n00:06:38,593 --> 00:06:53,534\n來邀請民眾,裏面有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論說他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害以及哪些是平台也許可以自律但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的那我們會透過這種審議事民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性\n\n19\n00:06:54,625 --> 00:07:23,007\n是那今年像美國和美國也準備在選總統的嘛那剛剛俄羅斯也產生了總統那很多國家都已經實施不在即投票了那電子簽章法修正草案通過後如何應用在若是用在不在即投票不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為就是類似公投的連署等等但是投票他並不是我們電子簽章法裡面說簽名或蓋章那個行為\n\n20\n00:07:23,809 --> 00:07:38,075\n是因為現在目前蠻多國家像是英美德法日本韓國他們都已經在實施不同類型的那台灣如果要意思說電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能是包含投票這個動作他可能只包含像連署這個動作OK好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7312\t10074\t謝謝主席有請部長請部長部長好我們今天看到電子簽章修正草案那修法的重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件還有電子簽章的應用可是一般企業然後還有個人都常常常常會比較難理解到什麼樣的產品還有什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用加上政府疏於防範自然威脅因為\n36269\t58477\t通常我們會看到各自外線還有駭客公警的事件頻傳讓人沒有辦法放心影響到電子簽章的推廣那我想請問部長電子簽章法需要結合各自法還有資通安全管理法的修法而且需要強化網路基礎建設才比較完善那資通安全法是數位發展部的法案是已經送到行政院\n59217\t86142\t那昨天也有委員就是詢問院長那他沒有明確的答覆那可否請部長就是這邊要問部長就是數位發展部的推動時程瞭解到的時程謝謝委員垂詢我們電子簽章法就是為了要解決像委員剛剛提到的本來是用比較弱的身份認證方式那各自外泄之後可能就會被冒名啊等等但是數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題因為一定要他本人才能夠\n86542\t107963\t每次來進行簽章的動作所以他本身就是對自然有幫助這第一個那第二個委員剛剛垂詢到自動安全管理法的期程我們其實在送院以前我們已經跟各個相關的機關等等已經有開過協調會議基本上已經把他們的考量都納入進去所以我相信在行政院協調之下應該我們就盡力來配合盡快送到大院\n109644\t134086\t數法部在去年推動這項法案的時候也聽到各界不同的聲音後來是如何做會診的?其實有一個很重要的是關於我們調度重大事件調度的這個權限當然地方政府會希望我們更容易讓他們了解到說會不會說我們定義重大事件整年都是重大事件結果他們的緣額就等於被我們用掉了所以我們這個已經做了很多的澄清就是說\n134486\t141353\t好比像選舉章案等等他有一個固定的時間是在那段時間裡面究竟來做調動不會變成好像去任意調派這樣\n143955\t165145\t那未來電子簽章法修法通過之後還要跟國際借軌那部長您之前也有提到過那有提到在國際應用方面未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當那我國法院即可承認電子文件的效力那其他國家對本國對我國的電子效力的承認目前的狀態是\n166506\t194740\t好比像說像我是立陶宛的這個所謂電子居民就是他也有發一張這個數位憑證給我我可以用立陶宛所認的那個簽章來簽章包含在那邊跨國開戶啊等等那在這個前提底下我們也希望立陶宛認我們這邊的簽章所以其實我們有一個合作協定就是用雙方的電子簽章互相承認來簽的但當然這是立陶宛那我想國際上面現在像美國這個國家標準技術相關的單位像NIST這個機構\n195720\t213639\t那他所制定出來電子簽章相關的準則基本上是國際是通用的所以我們會優先先跟NIST來談這個技術上面的對接所以目前就是立陶宛跟美國那我們接下來因為NIST之前有回訪我們嘛我們也會盡快跟NIST跟他們說我們這邊很可能很快會三讀通過那希望技術對接程序我們盡快來達成\n214898\t242428\t那部長您也提到過那這會促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊合力的順暢度可以具體舉例嗎?好比方說像台歐盟的相關的經貿對話那或者是台英相關的其實對方也都有說目前如果是跨境啊要簽一些相關的合約文件啊或是說一些銀行的往來如果還需要FedEx就是或其他的物流公司把那張紙這個用飛機運來運去的話其實是增加成本而且也拖慢這個處理的速度\n242748\t245656\t那如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話這當然是最好的\n246158\t271996\tOK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊\n273897\t302487\t我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話\n303007\t303387\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n326227\t352317\t那接下來在影片的部分我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了所以未來我想我們可能要有一個不同的想法就如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的那他剛剛您說提到這種輿論操作他一個人一個自然人但他創造出一千個可能每個你點進去他的這個Facebook的牆未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣有正常的生活又怎麼樣但全部都是合成的那這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決\n354743\t372359\t現在部長您提到像是AI技術那也是像科技也發展的申訴那用在正面方向可以帶來國家的進步那被不法的集團或是有心人士利用的話那帶來的惡質誹謗像是假消息那如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪掌握狀況並且及時因應\n374825\t396993\t我想這是非常非常重要首先就是我們有一個概念叫預先澄清像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己de-fake自己的這個影片那這個就讓大家知道說以後眼見不能為憑了必須要靠這個查證等等這是第一個那第二個是說我們也必須要透過像審議室調查的方式那事實上最近我們就有發了我在那個民主峰會有講十幾萬則簡訊出去\n398593\t413534\t來邀請民眾,裏面有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論說他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害以及哪些是平台也許可以自律但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的那我們會透過這種審議事民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性\n414625\t443007\t是那今年像美國和美國也準備在選總統的嘛那剛剛俄羅斯也產生了總統那很多國家都已經實施不在即投票了那電子簽章法修正草案通過後如何應用在若是用在不在即投票不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為就是類似公投的連署等等但是投票他並不是我們電子簽章法裡面說簽名或蓋章那個行為\n443809\t458075\t是因為現在目前蠻多國家像是英美德法日本韓國他們都已經在實施不同類型的那台灣如果要意思說電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能是包含投票這個動作他可能只包含像連署這個動作OK好謝謝謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長部長好我們今天看到電子簽章修正草案那修法的重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件還有電子簽章的應用可是一般企業然後還有個人都常常常常會比較難理解到什麼樣的產品還有什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用加上政府疏於防範自然威脅因為\n通常我們會看到各自外線還有駭客公警的事件頻傳讓人沒有辦法放心影響到電子簽章的推廣那我想請問部長電子簽章法需要結合各自法還有資通安全管理法的修法而且需要強化網路基礎建設才比較完善那資通安全法是數位發展部的法案是已經送到行政院\n那昨天也有委員就是詢問院長那他沒有明確的答覆那可否請部長就是這邊要問部長就是數位發展部的推動時程瞭解到的時程謝謝委員垂詢我們電子簽章法就是為了要解決像委員剛剛提到的本來是用比較弱的身份認證方式那各自外泄之後可能就會被冒名啊等等但是數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題因為一定要他本人才能夠\n每次來進行簽章的動作所以他本身就是對自然有幫助這第一個那第二個委員剛剛垂詢到自動安全管理法的期程我們其實在送院以前我們已經跟各個相關的機關等等已經有開過協調會議基本上已經把他們的考量都納入進去所以我相信在行政院協調之下應該我們就盡力來配合盡快送到大院\n數法部在去年推動這項法案的時候也聽到各界不同的聲音後來是如何做會診的?其實有一個很重要的是關於我們調度重大事件調度的這個權限當然地方政府會希望我們更容易讓他們了解到說會不會說我們定義重大事件整年都是重大事件結果他們的緣額就等於被我們用掉了所以我們這個已經做了很多的澄清就是說\n好比像選舉章案等等他有一個固定的時間是在那段時間裡面究竟來做調動不會變成好像去任意調派這樣\n那未來電子簽章法修法通過之後還要跟國際借軌那部長您之前也有提到過那有提到在國際應用方面未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當那我國法院即可承認電子文件的效力那其他國家對本國對我國的電子效力的承認目前的狀態是\n好比像說像我是立陶宛的這個所謂電子居民就是他也有發一張這個數位憑證給我我可以用立陶宛所認的那個簽章來簽章包含在那邊跨國開戶啊等等那在這個前提底下我們也希望立陶宛認我們這邊的簽章所以其實我們有一個合作協定就是用雙方的電子簽章互相承認來簽的但當然這是立陶宛那我想國際上面現在像美國這個國家標準技術相關的單位像NIST這個機構\n那他所制定出來電子簽章相關的準則基本上是國際是通用的所以我們會優先先跟NIST來談這個技術上面的對接所以目前就是立陶宛跟美國那我們接下來因為NIST之前有回訪我們嘛我們也會盡快跟NIST跟他們說我們這邊很可能很快會三讀通過那希望技術對接程序我們盡快來達成\n那部長您也提到過那這會促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊合力的順暢度可以具體舉例嗎?好比方說像台歐盟的相關的經貿對話那或者是台英相關的其實對方也都有說目前如果是跨境啊要簽一些相關的合約文件啊或是說一些銀行的往來如果還需要FedEx就是或其他的物流公司把那張紙這個用飛機運來運去的話其實是增加成本而且也拖慢這個處理的速度\n那如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話這當然是最好的\nOK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊\n我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n那接下來在影片的部分我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了所以未來我想我們可能要有一個不同的想法就如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的那他剛剛您說提到這種輿論操作他一個人一個自然人但他創造出一千個可能每個你點進去他的這個Facebook的牆未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣有正常的生活又怎麼樣但全部都是合成的那這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決\n現在部長您提到像是AI技術那也是像科技也發展的申訴那用在正面方向可以帶來國家的進步那被不法的集團或是有心人士利用的話那帶來的惡質誹謗像是假消息那如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪掌握狀況並且及時因應\n我想這是非常非常重要首先就是我們有一個概念叫預先澄清像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己de-fake自己的這個影片那這個就讓大家知道說以後眼見不能為憑了必須要靠這個查證等等這是第一個那第二個是說我們也必須要透過像審議室調查的方式那事實上最近我們就有發了我在那個民主峰會有講十幾萬則簡訊出去\n來邀請民眾,裏面有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論說他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害以及哪些是平台也許可以自律但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的那我們會透過這種審議事民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性\n是那今年像美國和美國也準備在選總統的嘛那剛剛俄羅斯也產生了總統那很多國家都已經實施不在即投票了那電子簽章法修正草案通過後如何應用在若是用在不在即投票不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為就是類似公投的連署等等但是投票他並不是我們電子簽章法裡面說簽名或蓋章那個行為\n是因為現在目前蠻多國家像是英美德法日本韓國他們都已經在實施不同類型的那台灣如果要意思說電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能是包含投票這個動作他可能只包含像連署這個動作OK好謝謝謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.312 --> 00:10.074\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長部長好我們今天看到電子簽章修正草案那修法的重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件還有電子簽章的應用可是一般企業然後還有個人都常常常常會比較難理解到什麼樣的產品還有什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用加上政府疏於防範自然威脅因為\n\n00:36.269 --> 00:58.477\n通常我們會看到各自外線還有駭客公警的事件頻傳讓人沒有辦法放心影響到電子簽章的推廣那我想請問部長電子簽章法需要結合各自法還有資通安全管理法的修法而且需要強化網路基礎建設才比較完善那資通安全法是數位發展部的法案是已經送到行政院\n\n00:59.217 --> 01:26.142\n那昨天也有委員就是詢問院長那他沒有明確的答覆那可否請部長就是這邊要問部長就是數位發展部的推動時程瞭解到的時程謝謝委員垂詢我們電子簽章法就是為了要解決像委員剛剛提到的本來是用比較弱的身份認證方式那各自外泄之後可能就會被冒名啊等等但是數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題因為一定要他本人才能夠\n\n01:26.542 --> 01:47.963\n每次來進行簽章的動作所以他本身就是對自然有幫助這第一個那第二個委員剛剛垂詢到自動安全管理法的期程我們其實在送院以前我們已經跟各個相關的機關等等已經有開過協調會議基本上已經把他們的考量都納入進去所以我相信在行政院協調之下應該我們就盡力來配合盡快送到大院\n\n01:49.644 --> 02:14.086\n數法部在去年推動這項法案的時候也聽到各界不同的聲音後來是如何做會診的?其實有一個很重要的是關於我們調度重大事件調度的這個權限當然地方政府會希望我們更容易讓他們了解到說會不會說我們定義重大事件整年都是重大事件結果他們的緣額就等於被我們用掉了所以我們這個已經做了很多的澄清就是說\n\n02:14.486 --> 02:21.353\n好比像選舉章案等等他有一個固定的時間是在那段時間裡面究竟來做調動不會變成好像去任意調派這樣\n\n02:23.955 --> 02:45.145\n那未來電子簽章法修法通過之後還要跟國際借軌那部長您之前也有提到過那有提到在國際應用方面未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當那我國法院即可承認電子文件的效力那其他國家對本國對我國的電子效力的承認目前的狀態是\n\n02:46.506 --> 03:14.740\n好比像說像我是立陶宛的這個所謂電子居民就是他也有發一張這個數位憑證給我我可以用立陶宛所認的那個簽章來簽章包含在那邊跨國開戶啊等等那在這個前提底下我們也希望立陶宛認我們這邊的簽章所以其實我們有一個合作協定就是用雙方的電子簽章互相承認來簽的但當然這是立陶宛那我想國際上面現在像美國這個國家標準技術相關的單位像NIST這個機構\n\n03:15.720 --> 03:33.639\n那他所制定出來電子簽章相關的準則基本上是國際是通用的所以我們會優先先跟NIST來談這個技術上面的對接所以目前就是立陶宛跟美國那我們接下來因為NIST之前有回訪我們嘛我們也會盡快跟NIST跟他們說我們這邊很可能很快會三讀通過那希望技術對接程序我們盡快來達成\n\n03:34.898 --> 04:02.428\n那部長您也提到過那這會促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊合力的順暢度可以具體舉例嗎?好比方說像台歐盟的相關的經貿對話那或者是台英相關的其實對方也都有說目前如果是跨境啊要簽一些相關的合約文件啊或是說一些銀行的往來如果還需要FedEx就是或其他的物流公司把那張紙這個用飛機運來運去的話其實是增加成本而且也拖慢這個處理的速度\n\n04:02.748 --> 04:05.656\n那如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話這當然是最好的\n\n04:06.158 --> 04:31.996\nOK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊\n\n04:33.897 --> 05:02.487\n我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話\n\n05:03.007 --> 05:03.387\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n05:26.227 --> 05:52.317\n那接下來在影片的部分我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了所以未來我想我們可能要有一個不同的想法就如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的那他剛剛您說提到這種輿論操作他一個人一個自然人但他創造出一千個可能每個你點進去他的這個Facebook的牆未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣有正常的生活又怎麼樣但全部都是合成的那這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決\n\n05:54.743 --> 06:12.359\n現在部長您提到像是AI技術那也是像科技也發展的申訴那用在正面方向可以帶來國家的進步那被不法的集團或是有心人士利用的話那帶來的惡質誹謗像是假消息那如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪掌握狀況並且及時因應\n\n06:14.825 --> 06:36.993\n我想這是非常非常重要首先就是我們有一個概念叫預先澄清像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己de-fake自己的這個影片那這個就讓大家知道說以後眼見不能為憑了必須要靠這個查證等等這是第一個那第二個是說我們也必須要透過像審議室調查的方式那事實上最近我們就有發了我在那個民主峰會有講十幾萬則簡訊出去\n\n06:38.593 --> 06:53.534\n來邀請民眾,裏面有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論說他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害以及哪些是平台也許可以自律但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的那我們會透過這種審議事民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性\n\n06:54.625 --> 07:23.007\n是那今年像美國和美國也準備在選總統的嘛那剛剛俄羅斯也產生了總統那很多國家都已經實施不在即投票了那電子簽章法修正草案通過後如何應用在若是用在不在即投票不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為就是類似公投的連署等等但是投票他並不是我們電子簽章法裡面說簽名或蓋章那個行為\n\n07:23.809 --> 07:38.075\n是因為現在目前蠻多國家像是英美德法日本韓國他們都已經在實施不同類型的那台灣如果要意思說電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能是包含投票這個動作他可能只包含像連署這個動作OK好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.312,"end":10.074,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長部長好我們今天看到電子簽章修正草案那修法的重點是為了提升智慧政府對電子文件還有電子簽章的應用可是一般企業然後還有個人都常常常常會比較難理解到什麼樣的產品還有什麼樣的服務適合作為電子簽章使用加上政府疏於防範自然威脅因為"},{"start":36.269,"end":58.477,"text":"通常我們會看到各自外線還有駭客公警的事件頻傳讓人沒有辦法放心影響到電子簽章的推廣那我想請問部長電子簽章法需要結合各自法還有資通安全管理法的修法而且需要強化網路基礎建設才比較完善那資通安全法是數位發展部的法案是已經送到行政院"},{"start":59.217,"end":86.142,"text":"那昨天也有委員就是詢問院長那他沒有明確的答覆那可否請部長就是這邊要問部長就是數位發展部的推動時程瞭解到的時程謝謝委員垂詢我們電子簽章法就是為了要解決像委員剛剛提到的本來是用比較弱的身份認證方式那各自外泄之後可能就會被冒名啊等等但是數位簽章大概就比較沒有這個問題因為一定要他本人才能夠"},{"start":86.542,"end":107.963,"text":"每次來進行簽章的動作所以他本身就是對自然有幫助這第一個那第二個委員剛剛垂詢到自動安全管理法的期程我們其實在送院以前我們已經跟各個相關的機關等等已經有開過協調會議基本上已經把他們的考量都納入進去所以我相信在行政院協調之下應該我們就盡力來配合盡快送到大院"},{"start":109.644,"end":134.086,"text":"數法部在去年推動這項法案的時候也聽到各界不同的聲音後來是如何做會診的?其實有一個很重要的是關於我們調度重大事件調度的這個權限當然地方政府會希望我們更容易讓他們了解到說會不會說我們定義重大事件整年都是重大事件結果他們的緣額就等於被我們用掉了所以我們這個已經做了很多的澄清就是說"},{"start":134.486,"end":141.353,"text":"好比像選舉章案等等他有一個固定的時間是在那段時間裡面究竟來做調動不會變成好像去任意調派這樣"},{"start":143.955,"end":165.145,"text":"那未來電子簽章法修法通過之後還要跟國際借軌那部長您之前也有提到過那有提到在國際應用方面未來只要有雙方的憑證技術互通安全條件相當那我國法院即可承認電子文件的效力那其他國家對本國對我國的電子效力的承認目前的狀態是"},{"start":166.506,"end":194.74,"text":"好比像說像我是立陶宛的這個所謂電子居民就是他也有發一張這個數位憑證給我我可以用立陶宛所認的那個簽章來簽章包含在那邊跨國開戶啊等等那在這個前提底下我們也希望立陶宛認我們這邊的簽章所以其實我們有一個合作協定就是用雙方的電子簽章互相承認來簽的但當然這是立陶宛那我想國際上面現在像美國這個國家標準技術相關的單位像NIST這個機構"},{"start":195.72,"end":213.639,"text":"那他所制定出來電子簽章相關的準則基本上是國際是通用的所以我們會優先先跟NIST來談這個技術上面的對接所以目前就是立陶宛跟美國那我們接下來因為NIST之前有回訪我們嘛我們也會盡快跟NIST跟他們說我們這邊很可能很快會三讀通過那希望技術對接程序我們盡快來達成"},{"start":214.898,"end":242.428,"text":"那部長您也提到過那這會促進我國未來在國際經貿談判簽署雙邊合力的順暢度可以具體舉例嗎?好比方說像台歐盟的相關的經貿對話那或者是台英相關的其實對方也都有說目前如果是跨境啊要簽一些相關的合約文件啊或是說一些銀行的往來如果還需要FedEx就是或其他的物流公司把那張紙這個用飛機運來運去的話其實是增加成本而且也拖慢這個處理的速度"},{"start":242.748,"end":245.656,"text":"那如果雙方都能夠電子互認的話這當然是最好的"},{"start":246.158,"end":271.996,"text":" OK,所以目前就是臺歐跟臺英臺歐跟臺英這個都有具體來討論。OK,那有些專家和業者建議為了未來要和國際接軌那也應該要訂出保證等級分級才能談如何有效。是的,是的。那這方面您的看法?對,那所以我們現在就已經分成了電子簽章就比較弱的一級自行約定的一級以及數位簽章就好像有硬件證明一樣比較高的一級那這個也是跟包含歐盟在內接軌就會變得比較容易。OK,好。那這邊這邊"},{"start":273.897,"end":302.487,"text":"我們看到這個那去年本席去年年底在選舉期間遭受就是全國首見的利用模擬器大量生成人頭帳號的網路攻擊那對方是以製作惡意的梗圖然後還有散播謠言還有恐嚇的言論的方式比如說像是不選邱若華的話我每天帶人來開槍塑造本席的負面形象意圖使本席不當選那我要請教部長面對這樣新型態的網路攻擊還有假消息有什麼樣的看法就是不顧慮本席是受害者的話"},{"start":303.007,"end":303.387,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":326.227,"end":352.317,"text":"那接下來在影片的部分我們也看到像Sora等等都已經開始推出了所以未來我想我們可能要有一個不同的想法就如果沒有數位簽章的可能都要當成是合成的那他剛剛您說提到這種輿論操作他一個人一個自然人但他創造出一千個可能每個你點進去他的這個Facebook的牆未來看起來都好像一個正常人一樣有正常的生活又怎麼樣但全部都是合成的那這個情況就必須要靠電子簽章法來解決"},{"start":354.743,"end":372.359,"text":"現在部長您提到像是AI技術那也是像科技也發展的申訴那用在正面方向可以帶來國家的進步那被不法的集團或是有心人士利用的話那帶來的惡質誹謗像是假消息那如何針對這樣的新科技犯罪掌握狀況並且及時因應"},{"start":374.825,"end":396.993,"text":"我想這是非常非常重要首先就是我們有一個概念叫預先澄清像兩年多前我有拍一個我自己de-fake自己的這個影片那這個就讓大家知道說以後眼見不能為憑了必須要靠這個查證等等這是第一個那第二個是說我們也必須要透過像審議室調查的方式那事實上最近我們就有發了我在那個民主峰會有講十幾萬則簡訊出去"},{"start":398.593,"end":413.534,"text":"來邀請民眾,裏面有統計代表性的可能400人左右一起來討論說他們現在生活上碰到哪些相關的危害以及哪些是平台也許可以自律但是哪些大家覺得政府就應該要做的那我們會透過這種審議事民調來建立我們未來相關作為的正當性"},{"start":414.625,"end":443.007,"text":"是那今年像美國和美國也準備在選總統的嘛那剛剛俄羅斯也產生了總統那很多國家都已經實施不在即投票了那電子簽章法修正草案通過後如何應用在若是用在不在即投票不過目前跟簽名或蓋章比較像的行為其實是連署的行為就是類似公投的連署等等但是投票他並不是我們電子簽章法裡面說簽名或蓋章那個行為"},{"start":443.809,"end":458.075,"text":"是因為現在目前蠻多國家像是英美德法日本韓國他們都已經在實施不同類型的那台灣如果要意思說電子簽章法的範圍裡面可能是包含投票這個動作他可能只包含像連署這個動作OK好謝謝謝謝部長"}]}}}}