{"id":150135,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150135","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1923526cb6019ca88531a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a67f55414fe2fddc5c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"11:04:13 - 11:14:00","影片長度":"00:09:47","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":587,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:14:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:04:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":540,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（11時4分）謝謝主席。請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長，辛苦。大家都很關心電子簽章，因為剛剛談到TikTok，我就想到電子簽章防詐的部分。防詐的部分將來在FB，數位部已經跟他們講好了嘛？"],["唐部長鳳：對，包含FB、LINE跟Google，這三個我們是先溝通的。"],["許委員智傑：這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛？"],["唐部長鳳：目前有法律依據的是投信投顧法，所以會從投資廣告開始，但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合，把它擴及到其他廣告。"],["許委員智傑：美國對TikTok的政策，臺灣要考慮到什麼程度，我們會有自己的考量。如果類似廣告的部分是不是有機會先談？"],["唐部長鳳：當然。因為它也是大型的網路廣告平臺，所以我們一旦完成管轄主管機關的變更之後，至少在落地這件事情上面，我們就要跟它先談了。"],["許委員智傑：所以現在就直接跟新加坡的總公司談？"],["唐部長鳳：是，我們有約過來談。"],["許委員智傑：所以FB、LINE這些都談好廣告要用電子簽章，TikTok已經談了，還是還沒談？還是預計什麼時候可以談？"],["唐部長鳳：我們有讓他們知道發展方向，但是它要先落地，不過我們要求它落地的依據是在打詐專法裡面，目前行政院就是從內政部當總收，應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本。那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下，我們就會來要求TikTok落地。"],["許委員智傑：因為現在TikTok有兩個角度，一個是思想的灌輸，這個是我們不能接受的，也是美國為什麼要禁的原因，這當然也是國安單位、國家的一個考量。另外一個考量就是防詐的部分，既然FB、LINE都已經談好了，禁不禁是整個國家的角度，但是防詐的部分，我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛？"],["唐部長鳳：對。美國當然也有一個講法，就是它希望TikTok半年之內不一定是禁，而是讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制它，等於把它的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的。如果到那個時候發生的話，我們這邊還是保有我國自己的認定，雖然美國說沒有實質控制，我們可以來看是不是還有實質控制，所以也不一定是美國怎麼認定，我們就怎麼認定。"],["許委員智傑：當然，國安單位會思考，就是我們跟美國有不一樣的思考角度。我說的是整個防滲透的部分，也希望防詐還是要先做。"],["唐部長鳳：當然，這是基本款，一定要先做。"],["許委員智傑：應該機會還蠻大的嘛？"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["許委員智傑：再來有關電子簽章，現在數位部預計3年完成，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：那是中央機關，希望目前排除適用的公告3年之後就會自動失效，除非它來立個法。"],["許委員智傑：3年要完成，我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用，我現在列在這裡的都是，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：對。"],["許委員智傑：這個部分是什麼原因？為什麼不適用？"],["唐部長鳳：有一些是很積極，剛剛呂正華署長有提到，像環境部已經願意來檢討，或者是經濟部也要儘快來適用。有一些像剛剛提到的漁業署，它說遠洋漁船上面，首先不一定是我國國人；第二個，他們傳統上是用紙本作業，漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等，它有一些理由。這個部分我們在三讀通過之前就會啟動初步的盤點，三讀通過之後當然會更進一步來要求。"],["許委員智傑：這兩千多個大小項目可能有一半以上就是不懂、不熟悉、不想用嘛！"],["唐部長鳳：有兩千多個業務項目，有些可能是十幾年前排除，它自己也不記得了，所以我們要提醒它一下，瞭解這個排除理由現在還在嗎？"],["許委員智傑：署長要補充一下。"],["呂署長正華：中央單位有26個單位，除去剛才報告2個，還剩24個，因為每個單位排除的項目多，所以才會有兩千多例，包括地方政府也有一些排除。之前我答詢提到彰化縣政府也排除，是91年翁金珠縣長時期的公文，但是它20年來都沒有修正，有些是那時候書類的申請也排除，而這是當時的環境，現在技術提升，每個人的手機也更進步，所以我們在這個法修完之後，子法也會跟著做配套。然後如部長所說的，這幾個單位過去比較不熟悉的，我們讓它熟悉；過去預算不夠的，可能就看中央政府怎麼編預算協助；第三個就是有法令要修訂的部分，也提醒它，因為有的法令就寫要「書面為之」，就沒辦法用電子……"],["許委員智傑：基本上，預計3年的時間可以完成？"],["呂署長正華：所以才說要有3年緩衝，有的說要1年，雖然越快越好，但是數位進程都要有預算跟法規去處理，所以我們抓3年，行政院版是3年，我們會朝院版來執行。"],["許委員智傑：OK，我是建議，當然除了儘快之外，這一些不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的單位，希望數位部可以儘量去溝通。我舉個例子請教，現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡？"],["呂署長正華：這不好說，因為都各有排除，我想現在每個人手機都是用數位化，很熟悉，所以……"],["許委員智傑：這個我知道啦！我們就事論事，沒有因人設事……"],["呂署長正華：是，是。"],["許委員智傑：現在最不願意用的是花蓮，就是他排除的最多嘛！當然你們要去跟國民黨總召溝通一下，花蓮也算在我們的國土之內，不是國土之外，不應該排除，希望數位部也儘量去努力，我相信有溝通就會有進步……"],["呂署長正華：是，是。"],["許委員智傑：我說的不會用、不太熟悉，或者不想用，這都會有不一樣的角度，該溝通還是要儘量去溝通，我覺得這個將來是全國一致的方便性，不能讓花蓮人比較不方便，該讓他們更方便的地方，我們也要替他們創造啊！"],["呂署長正華：謝謝委員提醒。"],["許委員智傑：這個部分希望數位部也儘量去努力。","另外，電子簽章法過後，將來就是跟自然人憑證、工商憑證等全部連結在一起，是不是？"],["唐部長鳳：對，他們都是數位簽章，就是效力比較強的那一種。"],["許委員智傑：將來的數位簽章，是不是就類似我們平常要蓋印章時，有蓋章、簽名，還有印鑑證明……"],["呂署長正華：對，對。"],["唐部長鳳：就是有多一個印鑑證明。"],["許委員智傑：數位簽章算是數位的印鑑證明……"],["唐部長鳳：沒錯，就是有印鑑證明的蓋章。"],["許委員智傑：那它跟內政部有沒有連結？"],["唐部長鳳：有的，整個自然人憑證系統，包含卡式跟線上的都是內政部來設計。"],["許委員智傑：這個未來會影響很大，因為民間用印鑑證明代表這個印章比較特別，這些都跟民政機關有密切聯繫，請問現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通過了？"],["唐部長鳳：有，我們有持續溝通，像剛剛提到的自然人憑證，林俊憲委員提到從頭到尾大概發過900萬張左右，不過以我們所知，活躍在使用的大概就400萬上下，這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的印鑑證明。"],["許委員智傑：好，這個部分我想要預做溝通，因為將來到底是身分證或數位身分證，現在有一些老人或者有一些人不願意使用數位身分證，他們要用傳統身分證，那麼傳統身分證裡面，將來是不是也可以把數位簽章的部分嵌在晶片裡面？"],["唐部長鳳：我想從一開始，國際上在普查使用類似數位身分證國家的時候，我們因為有自然人憑證，其實一直被算在裡面，至於委員剛剛講的是不是未來身分證的防偽程度更高？或者換發的時候有一個選項，而不是必要的，就是裡面有自然人憑證功能？以我所知，內政部之前也同意必須用專法來做這方面的修訂，所以這個可能要問內政部。"],["許委員智傑：這個選項也希望內政部跟數位部可以溝通，就是說我今天要用傳統身分證，不選用數位身分證，這個是我可以勾選的；然後我可以再勾選包括我的自然人憑證、數位簽章要不要也附帶在裡面，甚至我的健保卡是不是也附帶在裡面，這些是不是都可以讓人民自由勾選？政策上這個是由內政部決定，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["許委員智傑：技術上，數位部都沒有問題，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：技術上我們全力配合，另外還有一個構面，就是個資的安全守護上，未來獨立的個資會也會來處理。"],["許委員智傑：OK，希望這個再多做溝通，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，許委員發言完畢。","現在請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150135","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150135","tool":"pyannote","id":"150135-pyannote"},"job_id":"YOrf7pERYTZa5Hpn","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 85.766, \"end\": 86.226, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 86.226, \"end\": 86.586, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 86.586, \"end\": 87.267, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 87.267, \"end\": 87.747, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 87.747, \"end\": 87.927, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 87.927, \"end\": 88.187, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 88.187, \"end\": 88.367, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 88.367, \"end\": 88.607, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 88.607, \"end\": 89.748, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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\"斂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.154, \"end\": 104.254, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 104.254, \"end\": 104.454, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 104.454, \"end\": 104.554, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 104.554, \"end\": 104.734, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 104.734, \"end\": 105.074, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 105.074, \"end\": 105.274, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"斂\"}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 105.274, \"end\": 105.394, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 105.394, \"end\": 105.475, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 105.475, \"end\": 105.615, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 105.615, \"end\": 105.735, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 105.735, \"end\": 105.895, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 105.895, \"end\": 106.215, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,456 --> 00:00:25,257\n謝謝主席我們還是請部長請部長委員好部長辛苦這個電子簽章我想大家都很關心那因為剛剛談到TikTok我就想到那個我們的電子簽章的防炸的部分\n\n2\n00:00:26,414 --> 00:00:37,467\n那防照的部分在FB將來數位部已經跟他們講好了嗎?是,就是包含FB跟LINE跟Google這三個我們事先溝通。\n\n3\n00:00:38,127 --> 00:00:59,652\n對,就是這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛目前有法律依據的是投信投股法所以會從投資廣告開始但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合把它擴及到其他廣告所以我在想說TikTok當然就是說美國的政策我們台灣要考慮到什麼程度我們會有自己的考量但是如果是類似\n\n4\n00:01:00,794 --> 00:01:01,194\n〈電子簽章法修正草案〉案\n\n5\n00:01:25,766 --> 00:01:48,636\n已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地\n\n6\n00:01:49,216 --> 00:02:17,851\n因為現在TikTok有兩個角度嘛一個是那個思想的灌輸這個是我們不能接受的也是美國為什麼要禁的原因嘛那這個當然國安單位我們國家有一個考量那另外一個考量當然就是防詐的部分所以FBI那一季都已經談好了所以我是希望說在禁不禁是整個國家的角度但是就是防詐的部分我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛\n\n7\n00:02:18,618 --> 00:02:42,288\n那美國當然他是也有一個講法是說他希望TikTok半年之內就是不一定是禁而是說讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制他對把他的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的那如果到那個時候發生的話我們這邊還是保有我國自己在認定美國雖然說沒有實質控制我們可以來看是不是其實還有實質控制所以也不一定是說美國怎麼認定我們就怎麼認定\n\n8\n00:02:43,008 --> 00:02:59,331\n對當然就是這個國安單位會思考啦就是說跟美國我們有不一樣的思考的角度嘛我說的這個是整個防滲透的部分嘛那我們也希望說防炸還是要先做所以應該機會還蠻大的嘛好那我們再來講說那個電子簽章這個現在數位部預計3年完成嘛對不對\n\n9\n00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:34,125\n那是我們中央機關啦就是希望他們目前的排除適用的公告三年之後就會自動失效除非他來立個法那三年完成我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用嘛就是我現在列在這裡的都是嘛對不對那這個部分是什麼原因為什麼不適用\n\n10\n00:03:35,192 --> 00:04:03,895\n他有一些是很積極像剛剛這個鄭華書長有提到說像環境部他已經願意來檢討或者是這個經濟部盡快的來試用那有一些是因為他像剛剛提到的漁業署他說這個遠洋漁船上面首先不一定是我國國人第二個他們傳統上是用紙本作業漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等他有一些理由啦那這個部分我想我們在這個這邊三度通過之前我們就已經會啟動我們初步的盤點那三度通過之後我們當然會更進一步的來要求\n\n11\n00:04:04,675 --> 00:04:16,440\n我想裡面這些2000多個大小單位可能有一半以上可能他就是不懂不熟悉不想用\n\n12\n00:04:17,048 --> 00:04:31,426\n所以2000多個業務對那有些可能是十幾年前他排除他自己也不記得了所以我們也要提醒他一下說這個排除理由現在還在嗎那個署長要補充一下對跟委員報告齁就是中央單位有26個單位啦阿剛才報兩個那個已經存在死的\n\n13\n00:05:00,188 --> 00:05:27,427\n我們每個人手機都開始進步所以我們在這個法修完之後我們執法也會跟著做配套然後如部長所說的我們會請這幾個單位大家過去他比較不熟悉我們讓他熟悉過去他醫生不夠我們可能看中央政府怎麼做變醫生第三個就是說要有法令要修訂的部分那也提醒他因為有的法令上面就寫要書面為之就不要都用電子\n\n14\n00:05:28,448 --> 00:05:52,413\n所以基本上3年的時間政府預計可以完成。所以我們要3年拖拖阿有的說要1年越快是最好啦但是這個數位進程都有議審跟法規這個要去處理所以我們抓3年啊行政院院板是3年我們會朝這個院板來執行。OK我是建議就是當然除了儘快之外啦就是這一些\n\n15\n00:05:53,732 --> 00:06:21,154\n不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的這些單位希望說數位部可以盡量去溝通我舉個例子現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡因為都各有排除因為每個人手機現在都用數位的話很熟悉我們就是論事我們沒有去因人設事現在最不願意用的是花蓮\n\n16\n00:06:24,265 --> 00:06:45,540\n就是他排除的最多嘛那你們當然要去跟國民黨的總召溝通一下花蓮也算是我們國土之內不是國土之外啊不應該排除啊啊這個希望說數位部也盡量去努力啦我相信有溝通就會有進步嘛這個我說的不會用\n\n17\n00:07:06,108 --> 00:07:18,542\n另外就是說我們的那個電子簽章法過後那將來就是跟自然人憑證跟工商憑證這些全部都會連結在一起嗎對他們都是數位簽章就效率比較強的那一種\n\n18\n00:07:19,403 --> 00:07:37,956\n所以將來有數位簽章之後它是不是類似就是我們譬如是等於那有蓋章簽名還有硬件證明嗎?就是有一個多個硬件證明那數位簽章是算是數位的硬件證明沒錯就有硬件證明的蓋章所以它是跟內政部有待連結?\n\n19\n00:07:38,877 --> 00:07:55,579\n有的,那這個整個自然憑證系統包含卡式的跟線上的都是內政部來設計?因為這個未來會影響很大嘛因為民間用硬件證明代表說,啊這個應該是比較特別嘛那你今天這些東西都是跟民政機關有做密切的聯繫那這些東西\n\n20\n00:07:57,441 --> 00:08:19,587\n我們現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通了?有有,我有持續溝通。像剛剛提到的自然憑證,這個具縣委員有說大概從頭到尾有發過這個900萬張左右。不過以我們所知活藥在使用的大概就400萬上下。那這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的硬件證明了。因為這個部分我想說先預作溝通啦,因為將來到底\n\n21\n00:08:20,723 --> 00:08:37,396\n身分證、數位身分證現在有一些老人或者是有一些人不願意用數位身分證他要用傳統的身分證那他傳統的身分證裡面將來就是說把我們的數位簽章這個東西是不是也簽在晶片裡面\n\n22\n00:08:39,284 --> 00:09:04,501\n我想這個從一開始就是國際上面在普查說有沒有類似數位身份證的國家的時候我們因為有自然憑證其實一直被算在裡面了那委員剛剛講的是說是不是未來身份證防衛程度更高或者換發的時候要不要有一個選項不是必要喔是說裡面有自然憑證功能那以我所知內政部之前也有同意說必須要用專法來做這方面修訂所以這個可能要問內政部\n\n23\n00:09:04,801 --> 00:09:19,379\n所以這個選項可能也希望說內政部跟數位部溝通一下就是說我今天要用傳統身分證我不選數位身分證的這個是我可以勾選吧那我要再勾的就包括我的自然評證要不要附帶在裡面\n\n24\n00:09:20,273 --> 00:09:41,539\n那我的數位簽章是不是也附在在裡面甚至包括我的健保卡是不是也附在在裡面是不是都讓人民可以有自由勾選那這個就是說在政策上是內政部決定嘛對不對在技術上數位部都沒有問題嘛對不對講技術上我們是全力配合那另外還有另外一個顧名就是個資的安全守護上那個資未來的那個獨立個資會也會來處理OK希望說這個再多做溝通謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5456\t25257\t謝謝主席我們還是請部長請部長委員好部長辛苦這個電子簽章我想大家都很關心那因為剛剛談到TikTok我就想到那個我們的電子簽章的防炸的部分\n26414\t37467\t那防照的部分在FB將來數位部已經跟他們講好了嗎?是,就是包含FB跟LINE跟Google這三個我們事先溝通。\n38127\t59652\t對,就是這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛目前有法律依據的是投信投股法所以會從投資廣告開始但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合把它擴及到其他廣告所以我在想說TikTok當然就是說美國的政策我們台灣要考慮到什麼程度我們會有自己的考量但是如果是類似\n60794\t61194\t〈電子簽章法修正草案〉案\n85766\t108636\t已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地\n109216\t137851\t因為現在TikTok有兩個角度嘛一個是那個思想的灌輸這個是我們不能接受的也是美國為什麼要禁的原因嘛那這個當然國安單位我們國家有一個考量那另外一個考量當然就是防詐的部分所以FBI那一季都已經談好了所以我是希望說在禁不禁是整個國家的角度但是就是防詐的部分我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛\n138618\t162288\t那美國當然他是也有一個講法是說他希望TikTok半年之內就是不一定是禁而是說讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制他對把他的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的那如果到那個時候發生的話我們這邊還是保有我國自己在認定美國雖然說沒有實質控制我們可以來看是不是其實還有實質控制所以也不一定是說美國怎麼認定我們就怎麼認定\n163008\t179331\t對當然就是這個國安單位會思考啦就是說跟美國我們有不一樣的思考的角度嘛我說的這個是整個防滲透的部分嘛那我們也希望說防炸還是要先做所以應該機會還蠻大的嘛好那我們再來講說那個電子簽章這個現在數位部預計3年完成嘛對不對\n193359\t214125\t那是我們中央機關啦就是希望他們目前的排除適用的公告三年之後就會自動失效除非他來立個法那三年完成我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用嘛就是我現在列在這裡的都是嘛對不對那這個部分是什麼原因為什麼不適用\n215192\t243895\t他有一些是很積極像剛剛這個鄭華書長有提到說像環境部他已經願意來檢討或者是這個經濟部盡快的來試用那有一些是因為他像剛剛提到的漁業署他說這個遠洋漁船上面首先不一定是我國國人第二個他們傳統上是用紙本作業漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等他有一些理由啦那這個部分我想我們在這個這邊三度通過之前我們就已經會啟動我們初步的盤點那三度通過之後我們當然會更進一步的來要求\n244675\t256440\t我想裡面這些2000多個大小單位可能有一半以上可能他就是不懂不熟悉不想用\n257048\t271426\t所以2000多個業務對那有些可能是十幾年前他排除他自己也不記得了所以我們也要提醒他一下說這個排除理由現在還在嗎那個署長要補充一下對跟委員報告齁就是中央單位有26個單位啦阿剛才報兩個那個已經存在死的\n274991\t299087\t．﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n300188\t327427\t我們每個人手機都開始進步所以我們在這個法修完之後我們執法也會跟著做配套然後如部長所說的我們會請這幾個單位大家過去他比較不熟悉我們讓他熟悉過去他醫生不夠我們可能看中央政府怎麼做變醫生第三個就是說要有法令要修訂的部分那也提醒他因為有的法令上面就寫要書面為之就不要都用電子\n328448\t352413\t所以基本上3年的時間政府預計可以完成。所以我們要3年拖拖阿有的說要1年越快是最好啦但是這個數位進程都有議審跟法規這個要去處理所以我們抓3年啊行政院院板是3年我們會朝這個院板來執行。OK我是建議就是當然除了儘快之外啦就是這一些\n353732\t381154\t不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的這些單位希望說數位部可以盡量去溝通我舉個例子現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡因為都各有排除因為每個人手機現在都用數位的話很熟悉我們就是論事我們沒有去因人設事現在最不願意用的是花蓮\n384265\t405540\t就是他排除的最多嘛那你們當然要去跟國民黨的總召溝通一下花蓮也算是我們國土之內不是國土之外啊不應該排除啊啊這個希望說數位部也盡量去努力啦我相信有溝通就會有進步嘛這個我說的不會用\n406510\t425828\t﹏﹏﹏\n426108\t438542\t另外就是說我們的那個電子簽章法過後那將來就是跟自然人憑證跟工商憑證這些全部都會連結在一起嗎對他們都是數位簽章就效率比較強的那一種\n439403\t457956\t所以將來有數位簽章之後它是不是類似就是我們譬如是等於那有蓋章簽名還有硬件證明嗎?就是有一個多個硬件證明那數位簽章是算是數位的硬件證明沒錯就有硬件證明的蓋章所以它是跟內政部有待連結?\n458877\t475579\t有的,那這個整個自然憑證系統包含卡式的跟線上的都是內政部來設計?因為這個未來會影響很大嘛因為民間用硬件證明代表說,啊這個應該是比較特別嘛那你今天這些東西都是跟民政機關有做密切的聯繫那這些東西\n477441\t499587\t我們現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通了?有有,我有持續溝通。像剛剛提到的自然憑證,這個具縣委員有說大概從頭到尾有發過這個900萬張左右。不過以我們所知活藥在使用的大概就400萬上下。那這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的硬件證明了。因為這個部分我想說先預作溝通啦,因為將來到底\n500723\t517396\t身分證、數位身分證現在有一些老人或者是有一些人不願意用數位身分證他要用傳統的身分證那他傳統的身分證裡面將來就是說把我們的數位簽章這個東西是不是也簽在晶片裡面\n519284\t544501\t我想這個從一開始就是國際上面在普查說有沒有類似數位身份證的國家的時候我們因為有自然憑證其實一直被算在裡面了那委員剛剛講的是說是不是未來身份證防衛程度更高或者換發的時候要不要有一個選項不是必要喔是說裡面有自然憑證功能那以我所知內政部之前也有同意說必須要用專法來做這方面修訂所以這個可能要問內政部\n544801\t559379\t所以這個選項可能也希望說內政部跟數位部溝通一下就是說我今天要用傳統身分證我不選數位身分證的這個是我可以勾選吧那我要再勾的就包括我的自然評證要不要附帶在裡面\n560273\t581539\t那我的數位簽章是不是也附在在裡面甚至包括我的健保卡是不是也附在在裡面是不是都讓人民可以有自由勾選那這個就是說在政策上是內政部決定嘛對不對在技術上數位部都沒有問題嘛對不對講技術上我們是全力配合那另外還有另外一個顧名就是個資的安全守護上那個資未來的那個獨立個資會也會來處理OK希望說這個再多做溝通謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們還是請部長請部長委員好部長辛苦這個電子簽章我想大家都很關心那因為剛剛談到TikTok我就想到那個我們的電子簽章的防炸的部分\n那防照的部分在FB將來數位部已經跟他們講好了嗎?是,就是包含FB跟LINE跟Google這三個我們事先溝通。\n對,就是這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛目前有法律依據的是投信投股法所以會從投資廣告開始但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合把它擴及到其他廣告所以我在想說TikTok當然就是說美國的政策我們台灣要考慮到什麼程度我們會有自己的考量但是如果是類似\n〈電子簽章法修正草案〉案\n已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地\n因為現在TikTok有兩個角度嘛一個是那個思想的灌輸這個是我們不能接受的也是美國為什麼要禁的原因嘛那這個當然國安單位我們國家有一個考量那另外一個考量當然就是防詐的部分所以FBI那一季都已經談好了所以我是希望說在禁不禁是整個國家的角度但是就是防詐的部分我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛\n那美國當然他是也有一個講法是說他希望TikTok半年之內就是不一定是禁而是說讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制他對把他的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的那如果到那個時候發生的話我們這邊還是保有我國自己在認定美國雖然說沒有實質控制我們可以來看是不是其實還有實質控制所以也不一定是說美國怎麼認定我們就怎麼認定\n對當然就是這個國安單位會思考啦就是說跟美國我們有不一樣的思考的角度嘛我說的這個是整個防滲透的部分嘛那我們也希望說防炸還是要先做所以應該機會還蠻大的嘛好那我們再來講說那個電子簽章這個現在數位部預計3年完成嘛對不對\n那是我們中央機關啦就是希望他們目前的排除適用的公告三年之後就會自動失效除非他來立個法那三年完成我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用嘛就是我現在列在這裡的都是嘛對不對那這個部分是什麼原因為什麼不適用\n他有一些是很積極像剛剛這個鄭華書長有提到說像環境部他已經願意來檢討或者是這個經濟部盡快的來試用那有一些是因為他像剛剛提到的漁業署他說這個遠洋漁船上面首先不一定是我國國人第二個他們傳統上是用紙本作業漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等他有一些理由啦那這個部分我想我們在這個這邊三度通過之前我們就已經會啟動我們初步的盤點那三度通過之後我們當然會更進一步的來要求\n我想裡面這些2000多個大小單位可能有一半以上可能他就是不懂不熟悉不想用\n所以2000多個業務對那有些可能是十幾年前他排除他自己也不記得了所以我們也要提醒他一下說這個排除理由現在還在嗎那個署長要補充一下對跟委員報告齁就是中央單位有26個單位啦阿剛才報兩個那個已經存在死的\n．﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n我們每個人手機都開始進步所以我們在這個法修完之後我們執法也會跟著做配套然後如部長所說的我們會請這幾個單位大家過去他比較不熟悉我們讓他熟悉過去他醫生不夠我們可能看中央政府怎麼做變醫生第三個就是說要有法令要修訂的部分那也提醒他因為有的法令上面就寫要書面為之就不要都用電子\n所以基本上3年的時間政府預計可以完成。所以我們要3年拖拖阿有的說要1年越快是最好啦但是這個數位進程都有議審跟法規這個要去處理所以我們抓3年啊行政院院板是3年我們會朝這個院板來執行。OK我是建議就是當然除了儘快之外啦就是這一些\n不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的這些單位希望說數位部可以盡量去溝通我舉個例子現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡因為都各有排除因為每個人手機現在都用數位的話很熟悉我們就是論事我們沒有去因人設事現在最不願意用的是花蓮\n就是他排除的最多嘛那你們當然要去跟國民黨的總召溝通一下花蓮也算是我們國土之內不是國土之外啊不應該排除啊啊這個希望說數位部也盡量去努力啦我相信有溝通就會有進步嘛這個我說的不會用\n﹏﹏﹏\n另外就是說我們的那個電子簽章法過後那將來就是跟自然人憑證跟工商憑證這些全部都會連結在一起嗎對他們都是數位簽章就效率比較強的那一種\n所以將來有數位簽章之後它是不是類似就是我們譬如是等於那有蓋章簽名還有硬件證明嗎?就是有一個多個硬件證明那數位簽章是算是數位的硬件證明沒錯就有硬件證明的蓋章所以它是跟內政部有待連結?\n有的,那這個整個自然憑證系統包含卡式的跟線上的都是內政部來設計?因為這個未來會影響很大嘛因為民間用硬件證明代表說,啊這個應該是比較特別嘛那你今天這些東西都是跟民政機關有做密切的聯繫那這些東西\n我們現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通了?有有,我有持續溝通。像剛剛提到的自然憑證,這個具縣委員有說大概從頭到尾有發過這個900萬張左右。不過以我們所知活藥在使用的大概就400萬上下。那這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的硬件證明了。因為這個部分我想說先預作溝通啦,因為將來到底\n身分證、數位身分證現在有一些老人或者是有一些人不願意用數位身分證他要用傳統的身分證那他傳統的身分證裡面將來就是說把我們的數位簽章這個東西是不是也簽在晶片裡面\n我想這個從一開始就是國際上面在普查說有沒有類似數位身份證的國家的時候我們因為有自然憑證其實一直被算在裡面了那委員剛剛講的是說是不是未來身份證防衛程度更高或者換發的時候要不要有一個選項不是必要喔是說裡面有自然憑證功能那以我所知內政部之前也有同意說必須要用專法來做這方面修訂所以這個可能要問內政部\n所以這個選項可能也希望說內政部跟數位部溝通一下就是說我今天要用傳統身分證我不選數位身分證的這個是我可以勾選吧那我要再勾的就包括我的自然評證要不要附帶在裡面\n那我的數位簽章是不是也附在在裡面甚至包括我的健保卡是不是也附在在裡面是不是都讓人民可以有自由勾選那這個就是說在政策上是內政部決定嘛對不對在技術上數位部都沒有問題嘛對不對講技術上我們是全力配合那另外還有另外一個顧名就是個資的安全守護上那個資未來的那個獨立個資會也會來處理OK希望說這個再多做溝通謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.456 --> 00:25.257\n謝謝主席我們還是請部長請部長委員好部長辛苦這個電子簽章我想大家都很關心那因為剛剛談到TikTok我就想到那個我們的電子簽章的防炸的部分\n\n00:26.414 --> 00:37.467\n那防照的部分在FB將來數位部已經跟他們講好了嗎?是,就是包含FB跟LINE跟Google這三個我們事先溝通。\n\n00:38.127 --> 00:59.652\n對,就是這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛目前有法律依據的是投信投股法所以會從投資廣告開始但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合把它擴及到其他廣告所以我在想說TikTok當然就是說美國的政策我們台灣要考慮到什麼程度我們會有自己的考量但是如果是類似\n\n01:00.794 --> 01:01.194\n〈電子簽章法修正草案〉案\n\n01:25.766 --> 01:48.636\n已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地\n\n01:49.216 --> 02:17.851\n因為現在TikTok有兩個角度嘛一個是那個思想的灌輸這個是我們不能接受的也是美國為什麼要禁的原因嘛那這個當然國安單位我們國家有一個考量那另外一個考量當然就是防詐的部分所以FBI那一季都已經談好了所以我是希望說在禁不禁是整個國家的角度但是就是防詐的部分我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛\n\n02:18.618 --> 02:42.288\n那美國當然他是也有一個講法是說他希望TikTok半年之內就是不一定是禁而是說讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制他對把他的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的那如果到那個時候發生的話我們這邊還是保有我國自己在認定美國雖然說沒有實質控制我們可以來看是不是其實還有實質控制所以也不一定是說美國怎麼認定我們就怎麼認定\n\n02:43.008 --> 02:59.331\n對當然就是這個國安單位會思考啦就是說跟美國我們有不一樣的思考的角度嘛我說的這個是整個防滲透的部分嘛那我們也希望說防炸還是要先做所以應該機會還蠻大的嘛好那我們再來講說那個電子簽章這個現在數位部預計3年完成嘛對不對\n\n03:13.359 --> 03:34.125\n那是我們中央機關啦就是希望他們目前的排除適用的公告三年之後就會自動失效除非他來立個法那三年完成我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用嘛就是我現在列在這裡的都是嘛對不對那這個部分是什麼原因為什麼不適用\n\n03:35.192 --> 04:03.895\n他有一些是很積極像剛剛這個鄭華書長有提到說像環境部他已經願意來檢討或者是這個經濟部盡快的來試用那有一些是因為他像剛剛提到的漁業署他說這個遠洋漁船上面首先不一定是我國國人第二個他們傳統上是用紙本作業漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等他有一些理由啦那這個部分我想我們在這個這邊三度通過之前我們就已經會啟動我們初步的盤點那三度通過之後我們當然會更進一步的來要求\n\n04:04.675 --> 04:16.440\n我想裡面這些2000多個大小單位可能有一半以上可能他就是不懂不熟悉不想用\n\n04:17.048 --> 04:31.426\n所以2000多個業務對那有些可能是十幾年前他排除他自己也不記得了所以我們也要提醒他一下說這個排除理由現在還在嗎那個署長要補充一下對跟委員報告齁就是中央單位有26個單位啦阿剛才報兩個那個已經存在死的\n\n05:00.188 --> 05:27.427\n我們每個人手機都開始進步所以我們在這個法修完之後我們執法也會跟著做配套然後如部長所說的我們會請這幾個單位大家過去他比較不熟悉我們讓他熟悉過去他醫生不夠我們可能看中央政府怎麼做變醫生第三個就是說要有法令要修訂的部分那也提醒他因為有的法令上面就寫要書面為之就不要都用電子\n\n05:28.448 --> 05:52.413\n所以基本上3年的時間政府預計可以完成。所以我們要3年拖拖阿有的說要1年越快是最好啦但是這個數位進程都有議審跟法規這個要去處理所以我們抓3年啊行政院院板是3年我們會朝這個院板來執行。OK我是建議就是當然除了儘快之外啦就是這一些\n\n05:53.732 --> 06:21.154\n不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的這些單位希望說數位部可以盡量去溝通我舉個例子現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡因為都各有排除因為每個人手機現在都用數位的話很熟悉我們就是論事我們沒有去因人設事現在最不願意用的是花蓮\n\n06:24.265 --> 06:45.540\n就是他排除的最多嘛那你們當然要去跟國民黨的總召溝通一下花蓮也算是我們國土之內不是國土之外啊不應該排除啊啊這個希望說數位部也盡量去努力啦我相信有溝通就會有進步嘛這個我說的不會用\n\n07:06.108 --> 07:18.542\n另外就是說我們的那個電子簽章法過後那將來就是跟自然人憑證跟工商憑證這些全部都會連結在一起嗎對他們都是數位簽章就效率比較強的那一種\n\n07:19.403 --> 07:37.956\n所以將來有數位簽章之後它是不是類似就是我們譬如是等於那有蓋章簽名還有硬件證明嗎?就是有一個多個硬件證明那數位簽章是算是數位的硬件證明沒錯就有硬件證明的蓋章所以它是跟內政部有待連結?\n\n07:38.877 --> 07:55.579\n有的,那這個整個自然憑證系統包含卡式的跟線上的都是內政部來設計?因為這個未來會影響很大嘛因為民間用硬件證明代表說,啊這個應該是比較特別嘛那你今天這些東西都是跟民政機關有做密切的聯繫那這些東西\n\n07:57.441 --> 08:19.587\n我們現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通了?有有,我有持續溝通。像剛剛提到的自然憑證,這個具縣委員有說大概從頭到尾有發過這個900萬張左右。不過以我們所知活藥在使用的大概就400萬上下。那這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的硬件證明了。因為這個部分我想說先預作溝通啦,因為將來到底\n\n08:20.723 --> 08:37.396\n身分證、數位身分證現在有一些老人或者是有一些人不願意用數位身分證他要用傳統的身分證那他傳統的身分證裡面將來就是說把我們的數位簽章這個東西是不是也簽在晶片裡面\n\n08:39.284 --> 09:04.501\n我想這個從一開始就是國際上面在普查說有沒有類似數位身份證的國家的時候我們因為有自然憑證其實一直被算在裡面了那委員剛剛講的是說是不是未來身份證防衛程度更高或者換發的時候要不要有一個選項不是必要喔是說裡面有自然憑證功能那以我所知內政部之前也有同意說必須要用專法來做這方面修訂所以這個可能要問內政部\n\n09:04.801 --> 09:19.379\n所以這個選項可能也希望說內政部跟數位部溝通一下就是說我今天要用傳統身分證我不選數位身分證的這個是我可以勾選吧那我要再勾的就包括我的自然評證要不要附帶在裡面\n\n09:20.273 --> 09:41.539\n那我的數位簽章是不是也附在在裡面甚至包括我的健保卡是不是也附在在裡面是不是都讓人民可以有自由勾選那這個就是說在政策上是內政部決定嘛對不對在技術上數位部都沒有問題嘛對不對講技術上我們是全力配合那另外還有另外一個顧名就是個資的安全守護上那個資未來的那個獨立個資會也會來處理OK希望說這個再多做溝通謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.456,"end":25.257,"text":"謝謝主席我們還是請部長請部長委員好部長辛苦這個電子簽章我想大家都很關心那因為剛剛談到TikTok我就想到那個我們的電子簽章的防炸的部分"},{"start":26.414,"end":37.467,"text":"那防照的部分在FB將來數位部已經跟他們講好了嗎?是,就是包含FB跟LINE跟Google這三個我們事先溝通。"},{"start":38.127,"end":59.652,"text":"對,就是這些要下廣告就一定要用我們的電子簽章嘛目前有法律依據的是投信投股法所以會從投資廣告開始但是我們在打詐專法裡面會特別跟內政部配合把它擴及到其他廣告所以我在想說TikTok當然就是說美國的政策我們台灣要考慮到什麼程度我們會有自己的考量但是如果是類似"},{"start":60.794,"end":61.194,"text":"〈電子簽章法修正草案〉案"},{"start":85.766,"end":108.636,"text":"已經談了還是還沒談?我們有讓他們知道這個發展方向但是他要先落地那不過我們要求他落地的這個依據是在這個打砸專法裡面目前行政院就是從內政部當這個總收現在正在就是應該很快就可以有一個收斂的版本那在這個收斂版本有法律依據的情況下我們就會來要求TikTok來落地"},{"start":109.216,"end":137.851,"text":"因為現在TikTok有兩個角度嘛一個是那個思想的灌輸這個是我們不能接受的也是美國為什麼要禁的原因嘛那這個當然國安單位我們國家有一個考量那另外一個考量當然就是防詐的部分所以FBI那一季都已經談好了所以我是希望說在禁不禁是整個國家的角度但是就是防詐的部分我相信他們應該也願意配合我們做嘛"},{"start":138.618,"end":162.288,"text":"那美國當然他是也有一個講法是說他希望TikTok半年之內就是不一定是禁而是說讓境外敵對勢力不能再實質控制他對把他的資產或者軟體整個賣出去之類的那如果到那個時候發生的話我們這邊還是保有我國自己在認定美國雖然說沒有實質控制我們可以來看是不是其實還有實質控制所以也不一定是說美國怎麼認定我們就怎麼認定"},{"start":163.008,"end":179.331,"text":"對當然就是這個國安單位會思考啦就是說跟美國我們有不一樣的思考的角度嘛我說的這個是整個防滲透的部分嘛那我們也希望說防炸還是要先做所以應該機會還蠻大的嘛好那我們再來講說那個電子簽章這個現在數位部預計3年完成嘛對不對"},{"start":193.359,"end":214.125,"text":"那是我們中央機關啦就是希望他們目前的排除適用的公告三年之後就會自動失效除非他來立個法那三年完成我們看到現在還有很多中央單位認為他們不適用嘛就是我現在列在這裡的都是嘛對不對那這個部分是什麼原因為什麼不適用"},{"start":215.192,"end":243.895,"text":"他有一些是很積極像剛剛這個鄭華書長有提到說像環境部他已經願意來檢討或者是這個經濟部盡快的來試用那有一些是因為他像剛剛提到的漁業署他說這個遠洋漁船上面首先不一定是我國國人第二個他們傳統上是用紙本作業漁船上面不一定有那麼好的網路連線等等他有一些理由啦那這個部分我想我們在這個這邊三度通過之前我們就已經會啟動我們初步的盤點那三度通過之後我們當然會更進一步的來要求"},{"start":244.675,"end":256.44,"text":"我想裡面這些2000多個大小單位可能有一半以上可能他就是不懂不熟悉不想用"},{"start":257.048,"end":271.426,"text":"所以2000多個業務對那有些可能是十幾年前他排除他自己也不記得了所以我們也要提醒他一下說這個排除理由現在還在嗎那個署長要補充一下對跟委員報告齁就是中央單位有26個單位啦阿剛才報兩個那個已經存在死的"},{"start":274.991,"end":299.087,"text":" ．﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":300.188,"end":327.427,"text":"我們每個人手機都開始進步所以我們在這個法修完之後我們執法也會跟著做配套然後如部長所說的我們會請這幾個單位大家過去他比較不熟悉我們讓他熟悉過去他醫生不夠我們可能看中央政府怎麼做變醫生第三個就是說要有法令要修訂的部分那也提醒他因為有的法令上面就寫要書面為之就不要都用電子"},{"start":328.448,"end":352.413,"text":"所以基本上3年的時間政府預計可以完成。所以我們要3年拖拖阿有的說要1年越快是最好啦但是這個數位進程都有議審跟法規這個要去處理所以我們抓3年啊行政院院板是3年我們會朝這個院板來執行。OK我是建議就是當然除了儘快之外啦就是這一些"},{"start":353.732,"end":381.154,"text":"不管是不熟悉、不懂、不會用甚至不想用的這些單位希望說數位部可以盡量去溝通我舉個例子現在全國最不想用的地方政府是哪裡因為都各有排除因為每個人手機現在都用數位的話很熟悉我們就是論事我們沒有去因人設事現在最不願意用的是花蓮"},{"start":384.265,"end":405.54,"text":"就是他排除的最多嘛那你們當然要去跟國民黨的總召溝通一下花蓮也算是我們國土之內不是國土之外啊不應該排除啊啊這個希望說數位部也盡量去努力啦我相信有溝通就會有進步嘛這個我說的不會用"},{"start":406.51,"end":425.828,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":426.108,"end":438.542,"text":"另外就是說我們的那個電子簽章法過後那將來就是跟自然人憑證跟工商憑證這些全部都會連結在一起嗎對他們都是數位簽章就效率比較強的那一種"},{"start":439.403,"end":457.956,"text":"所以將來有數位簽章之後它是不是類似就是我們譬如是等於那有蓋章簽名還有硬件證明嗎?就是有一個多個硬件證明那數位簽章是算是數位的硬件證明沒錯就有硬件證明的蓋章所以它是跟內政部有待連結?"},{"start":458.877,"end":475.579,"text":"有的,那這個整個自然憑證系統包含卡式的跟線上的都是內政部來設計?因為這個未來會影響很大嘛因為民間用硬件證明代表說,啊這個應該是比較特別嘛那你今天這些東西都是跟民政機關有做密切的聯繫那這些東西"},{"start":477.441,"end":499.587,"text":"我們現在數位部跟內政部是不是已經溝通了?有有,我有持續溝通。像剛剛提到的自然憑證,這個具縣委員有說大概從頭到尾有發過這個900萬張左右。不過以我們所知活藥在使用的大概就400萬上下。那這就表示這些人都已經有類似內政部給的硬件證明了。因為這個部分我想說先預作溝通啦,因為將來到底"},{"start":500.723,"end":517.396,"text":"身分證、數位身分證現在有一些老人或者是有一些人不願意用數位身分證他要用傳統的身分證那他傳統的身分證裡面將來就是說把我們的數位簽章這個東西是不是也簽在晶片裡面"},{"start":519.284,"end":544.501,"text":"我想這個從一開始就是國際上面在普查說有沒有類似數位身份證的國家的時候我們因為有自然憑證其實一直被算在裡面了那委員剛剛講的是說是不是未來身份證防衛程度更高或者換發的時候要不要有一個選項不是必要喔是說裡面有自然憑證功能那以我所知內政部之前也有同意說必須要用專法來做這方面修訂所以這個可能要問內政部"},{"start":544.801,"end":559.379,"text":"所以這個選項可能也希望說內政部跟數位部溝通一下就是說我今天要用傳統身分證我不選數位身分證的這個是我可以勾選吧那我要再勾的就包括我的自然評證要不要附帶在裡面"},{"start":560.273,"end":581.539,"text":"那我的數位簽章是不是也附在在裡面甚至包括我的健保卡是不是也附在在裡面是不是都讓人民可以有自由勾選那這個就是說在政策上是內政部決定嘛對不對在技術上數位部都沒有問題嘛對不對講技術上我們是全力配合那另外還有另外一個顧名就是個資的安全守護上那個資未來的那個獨立個資會也會來處理OK希望說這個再多做溝通謝謝"}]}}}}