{"id":150138,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150138","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192699bd4c7e854159b135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a64e5686418a82e3265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"11:18:13 - 11:32:56","影片長度":"00:14:43","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":883,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:32:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:18:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時18分）我們請部長。"],["主席：請吳部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，我首先先肯定，其實這幾年讓臺灣人對外交的想像，能夠從邦交國，然後擴展到理念相近的國家，特別是紐、澳、捷克、波羅的海的國家，我們是非常肯定的。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員冠廷：有肯定、有期許，但是當然也會指出一些我們需要改進的方向。"],["吳部長釗燮：是，當然。謝謝委員。"],["陳委員冠廷：今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後，第一時間，美國、日本、英國、德國，還有澳洲五十多個理念相近的國家，透過行政部門或者是國會表達恭賀，美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力；日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作；法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權。這些都是國際社會的肯定，當然，我們認同民主成就的展現，也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎，但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時，我必須要指出，回頭看我們的邦交國，部長，海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：海地是我們的友邦，但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾，他們也希望接下來能夠進行選舉，選出他們新的政府。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，史瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎？跟我們的理念相近嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：史瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家，他們的君主的確是他們帶領國家最重要的決策者，但是他們也有國會選舉，所以它有它獨特的政治制度。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們在自由之家跟經濟學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由，所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想這個不只是價值的關係，而是說我們臺灣跟史瓦帝尼及海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係，比如像史瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的邦交關係。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯。"],["吳部長釗燮：這個關係是非常的深厚。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域，像是聯合國大會、WHA幫我們發聲，它可以讓我們、甚至可以因為這樣子能夠在出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交，更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家。"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["陳委員冠廷：這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的，所以我們如果只用價值外交，不斷強調單一的這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交走向的話，很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊，所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰，要維持我們的生活方式，除了以價值外交為導向的外交，我們還要考量國家利益，還要考量包含政治經貿、包含科技導向，要有更全方位的韌性外交，這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權限制。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以我也希望外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他這些同仁來說明臺灣的外交走向時，除了價值外交，也必須要跟所有的國人強調包含科技、包含經貿、包含產業、包含環保的政策等等，這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保。我也不是說價值外交不重要，因為我前面一開始就強調價值外交的重要性，但是我剛剛提到史瓦帝尼也好、海地也好，還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好，他們或許現階段是不民主、不自由的，但是我們要拿出更積極的作法去擴大我們的民主軟實力，在這一個領域上面，我們要領導、我們要改變、我們要協助我們的邦交國。","所以作為經濟上的中等強權，經濟學人在2023年的民主指數，我們的全球評比是第十，是亞洲之冠的民主國家，我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或是不民主的友邦去轉型，因為我們締結邦交的是國家，不僅僅是政府，所以儘管某些邦交的、友邦的政體現在是不民主，不代表說我們就不要跟他們有關聯性，不對！我們要在教育上接納這些國家的新世代青年在臺學習，所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交的國家，外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到、讓他們這些學生還繼續在臺灣，這就是我們在為下一個世代在做準備。所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯，但是我們再積極的培養下一個世代的人，或許可以跟我們復交。所以外交部，可不可以更積極促成這樣子的發展？"],["吳部長釗燮：是，目前譬如說媒體上面所呈現的宏都拉斯學生，這就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力。有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真來思考，就是培養更多友臺的這些人，我們常常在講，我們只是怕其他的人不來而已，如果其他的國家人能夠有機會到臺灣來，他們一定是會非常喜歡臺灣、會非常支持臺灣。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：所以歡迎更多的人到臺灣來、留在臺灣，這個是我們的政策。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。部長，其實我們剛剛提到價值觀，還有提到其他更具備全方位韌性的外交。這一次在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候，印度還是給予祝賀，我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的，特別針對烏克蘭是不同的，但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化、教育、貿易、地緣政治等種種考量，我們跟印度還是有合作空間。"],["吳部長釗燮：當然。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠被單一定位，如果被單一定位的話，我們就必須每一次都要作出調整，那就會被對方說：你為什麼不是依照價值外交？因為我們是全面性的韌性外交，我想這個部分還是要跟部長，還有我們其他的外交同仁反映。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員冠廷：說到印度，有關這次勞動部長的失言風波，在整體的規劃中，外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好溝通？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員提出這個問題，如果委員看到事後我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明，讓印度政府、印度人民，甚至是印度在臺灣的這些僑民都瞭解到，我們其實是非常重視跟印度的關係，就可以理解到說我們跟勞動部之間有很多這些溝通。"],["陳委員冠廷：在3月6號的書面報告，外交部回應的文字大概是兩頁，其中一面是封面，我認為這不是勞動部的責任而已，外交部以後相關的，特別跟國情相關的，必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作，讓勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告，跟他們來解釋一下，讓他們更理解狀況。"],["吳部長釗燮：我們會儘量來努力。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的，所以我看到許多印度重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞，馬上有採取外交部提出的這一個不同的意見，然後去捍衛印度其他的這些人權和一些相關種族歧視的作法是錯誤的。所以外交部的反應是快的，但是跨部門的處理，就是跟其他部門告知哪些狀況及印度的整體經濟文化狀況是什麼樣是很重要的，所以我希望外交部不是只有處理外交部部內的工作而已，跨局處的這些部分還是希望一起處理。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：剛才其實有很多委員針對邦交國的部分，我必須強調，在面臨中共的打壓之下，其實很多時候不是我們自主可以控制。但是我們都不希望看到有斷交的情況出現，不管如何，我們知道中共會打壓的這個前提之下，我們還是要有相對的應處。我想請問部長，為什麼每次詢問邦誼狀況的時候，基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題，但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向？比如說2018年3月22號，外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機，可是63天內就斷交了多明尼加、布吉納法索，2023年11月2號，有關諾魯，我們說上任關係會更好，可是結果1月15號斷交。","我的意思是，我們要傳遞邦交狀況給國人知道，我們要知道，我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的，但是我們至少可以預警，至少可以知道有危機，讓民眾先做好準備，讓外交部所有的聲音是一致的。這樣子的話，當中共正式斷交的時候，我們早就已經做好準備，所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有使館通報，報喜不報憂是錯誤的，只要有遇到挑戰，我們一起來面對，這是國家共同要面對。我不認為，遇到這種斷交的狀況，換了一個首長，這個問題就解決了，不可能的！但是我們至少要有預警的措施，這個部分可不可以請部長未來能夠掌控並且傳達給其他使館？"],["吳部長釗燮：是，非常謝謝委員，其實我們在去年已經對外面，就是已經對立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法，只要有預警的時候，我們都會很坦承的跟立法院或者是跟社會大眾說明，我們目前有一些預警情資。接下來我也會依照委員的意思，如果有更多的狀況時，我們也會對外面來做說明。但是目前希望這12個國家，我們都儘量維持我們的關係。"],["陳委員冠廷：當然這樣是非常好，部長，我必須再強調，其實有很多大使在他的任內可能是斷交，可是他把這一個狀況延緩很久，所以他其實應該要被獎勵的，因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程延緩了。有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交，可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個，所以獎懲機制及內部考核必須要清晰，不然就會變成要做自己的功績，但是卻把爛攤子留給下一任，其實會讓已經做出很多努力的人必須要承擔斷交的風險。但其實他做出來的成果，或者是在當地駐館跟其他國家的互動，甚至是成就都很多，但是卻要被背上斷交的罵名，這對那些大使也是不公平的，反而是有一些脫身的，好像他任內有維持，可是他一離開，下一個國家馬上就斷交，這對他是不公平的。所以我覺得這個部分，我還是希望我們能夠一起敦促大使們一起處理好並穩固邦交國的關係。","中國現在大概跟180個國家有邦交關係，我們現在是有12個，所以表示我們現在有更多的資源去鞏固邦交，對方有183個，所以我們也有更多的可能性來去恢復跟這些國家的邦交。","最後我必須再強調就是關於學生赴外的機會，剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留臺學生的態度上是基於善意跟人道精神，其實都是替臺灣爭取軟實力的基礎。我在想這些臺灣獎學金的受獎人，在臺灣是不是有什麼義務規範，可不可以讓他們到偏鄉去做一些相關的服務？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個我們可以來討論一下，但是可以想像得到的就是臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人，他們到臺灣來可能是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的重地，可是如果到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的研究需求的話，可能我們也會做一些鼓勵。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們是希望增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係。最後我們有外交尖兵、親善大使這些赴點研究，比較其他印太地區的國家，像澳洲有新可倫坡計畫，紐西蘭有總理亞洲獎學金計畫，這一些學員基本上就是他們連接國外，有點像是我們僑委會的搭僑計畫，我是認為以外交部來擔任這樣子的發起人，讓我們國家優秀的青年能夠有機會到理念相近的國家也好，或者是跟我們直接利害相關的國家，能夠去那邊駐點擔任學人，去重點的企業、產業做實習生或者是做訪問學者，由外交部來提供相關的經費，我認為是可以加強臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結，不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可倫坡計畫或者是總理亞洲獎學金這些相關的……"],["吳部長釗燮：這個我知道，但是在我們臺灣的practice可能目前來講還會有困難啦！但是這個idea非常好，所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面，通常權責的劃分，我們外交部跟教育部就是我們外交部這邊提供的scholarship、fellowship是讓其他國家的人來申請的，教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的，倒是教育部這邊跟外交部這邊未來的願景是不是能夠搭配的話，這個倒是兩個部會要討論啦！我們外交部這邊去成立一個像可倫坡計畫的這個idea的話，我想這個可以來思考，我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的計畫。"],["陳委員冠廷：這些可倫坡計畫的實習生後來有一些在我之前的這些工作的辦公室也好，都提供很好的洞見，接下來他們後來回去之後，在他們當地的政府或者是中央政府都擔任非常重要的職位，所以我認為這樣建立的管道跟關係，在非政府組織的狀況之下跟政府組織的狀況之下做一個完美的橋梁，所以還是希望有機會的話請部長能夠思考一下這樣的可能性，謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時33分）","繼續開會（11時38分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來請賴士葆委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150138","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150138","tool":"pyannote","id":"150138-pyannote"},"job_id":"gNElzI54LWN4WYQC","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 383.159, \"end\": 383.379, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 383.379, \"end\": 383.599, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 383.599, \"end\": 383.819, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 383.819, \"end\": 384.119, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 384.119, \"end\": 384.28, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 384.28, \"end\": 384.48, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 384.48, \"end\": 384.64, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 384.64, \"end\": 385.78, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 385.78, \"end\": 386.241, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 386.241, \"end\": 386.401, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 386.401, \"end\": 386.561, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 386.561, \"end\": 387.141, \"score\": 0.906}, 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{\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 389.683, \"end\": 389.703, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 389.703, \"end\": 389.743, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.743, \"end\": 389.863, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 389.863, \"end\": 389.883, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.883, \"end\": 389.983, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 389.983, \"end\": 390.003, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 390.003, \"end\": 390.164, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 390.164, \"end\": 390.324, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 390.324, \"end\": 390.504, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 390.504, \"end\": 390.584, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"頁\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 390.584, \"end\": 390.644, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 390.644, \"end\": 390.764, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 390.764, \"end\": 390.904, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 390.904, \"end\": 391.025, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 391.025, \"end\": 391.085, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"封\", \"start\": 391.085, \"end\": 391.205, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 391.205, \"end\": 391.225, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 407.685, \"end\": 424.149, \"text\": \"我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 407.685, \"end\": 409.005, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 409.005, \"end\": 409.105, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 409.105, \"end\": 409.566, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 409.566, \"end\": 410.006, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.006, \"end\": 410.366, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": 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655.859, \"text\": \"主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 655.759, \"end\": 655.839, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 655.839, \"end\": 655.859, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 671.613, \"end\": 672.053, \"text\": \"關於學生赴外的機會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 671.613, \"end\": 671.673, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 671.673, \"end\": 671.733, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 671.733, \"end\": 671.773, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"赴\", \"start\": 671.773, \"end\": 671.933, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 671.933, \"end\": 672.033, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 672.033, \"end\": 672.053, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 691.781, \"end\": 709.571, \"text\": \"那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 691.781, \"end\": 692.421, 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00:00:55,058\n那今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後第一時間美國日本英國德國還有澳洲50多個理念相近的國家那透過行政部門或者是國會那表達恭賀美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力然後外務大臣日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作然後法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權\n\n3\n00:00:58,639 --> 00:01:18,609\n這些都是國際社會的肯定那當然我們認同民主成就的展現也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時我必須要指出回頭看我們的邦交國部長海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎\n\n4\n00:01:19,685 --> 00:01:30,666\n海地是我們的友邦但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾那他們也希望能夠接下來進行那個選舉去選出他們的新的政府\n\n5\n00:01:31,192 --> 00:01:55,576\n部長斯瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎?跟我們的理念相近嗎?斯瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家他們的君主的確是他們那個帶領國家的最重要的決策者但是他們也有國會的這個選舉所以他是有他獨特的政治制度我想他們在自由自家跟這些學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友?\n\n6\n00:01:57,510 --> 00:02:21,782\n我想這個不只是價值的關係而是說我們台灣跟斯瓦帝尼跟海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係比如說像斯瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的這個邦交關係那個關係是非常的深厚的我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域像是聯合國大會WHA幫我們發聲他可以讓我們甚至可以因為這樣子能夠去出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交\n\n7\n00:02:22,162 --> 00:02:46,527\n更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家所以這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的所以我們如果只用價值外交不斷強調單一的這種方向或者是這種面這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交的走向的話很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊\n\n8\n00:02:47,867 --> 00:03:08,281\n所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰要維持我們的生活方式除了以價值外交為導向的外交我們還要考量國家利益還要考量包含政治經貿包含科技導向要有更全方位的韌性外交這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權來去限制所以我也希望說\n\n9\n00:03:09,642 --> 00:03:32,650\n外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他的這些同仁來說明台灣的外交走向的時候除了價值外交也必須要跟所有的國人強調說包含科技包含經貿包含產業包含環保的政策等等這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保那我也不是說價值外交不重要因為我前面開始就強調價值外交的重要性\n\n10\n00:03:33,630 --> 00:03:52,405\n但是我剛剛提到斯瓦帝尼也好海地也好還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好他們或許現階段是不民主不自由的但是我們要拿出更積極的做法來去擴大我們的民主軟實力在這一個領域上面我們要領導我們要改變我們要協助我們的邦交國\n\n11\n00:03:53,206 --> 00:04:11,289\n所以作為經濟上的中等強權作為經濟學人在2023年的這個民主指數我們全球的評比是第10是亞洲之冠的民主國家我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或者是不民主的友邦來去轉型因為我們締結邦交的是國家\n\n12\n00:04:12,190 --> 00:04:38,606\n不僅僅是政府所以儘管某些邦交的友邦的政體現在是不民主不代表說我們就要跟他不要跟他們有關聯性不對我們要在教育上盡量這些國家的新世代的青年在台學習所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交國家外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到讓他們能夠這些學生還繼續在台灣這就是一個我們在為下一個世代在做準備\n\n13\n00:04:39,366 --> 00:05:03,244\n所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯但是我們在積極的培養下一個世代的人或許可以跟我們復交所以外交部可不可以更積極的促成這樣子的發展是那個目前比如說媒體上面所呈現的那個洪都拉斯的這個學生那這個就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力啦那有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真的來思考就是培養\n\n14\n00:05:04,025 --> 00:05:04,405\n這次印度\n\n15\n00:05:32,589 --> 00:05:52,988\n在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候還是可以祝賀我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的在這個特別是針對烏克蘭是不同的但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化教育貿易地緣政治的種種考量我們跟印度還是有合作空間所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠\n\n16\n00:05:53,869 --> 00:05:54,009\n說到印度﹗\n\n17\n00:06:11,232 --> 00:06:28,122\n這次勞動部長的失言風波在整體規劃中,外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好的溝通?非常謝謝委員提出這個問題,如果說委員看到事後,我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明\n\n18\n00:06:28,962 --> 00:06:31,225\n在3月6號的書面報告外交部的回應的文字大概是兩頁其中一面是封面\n\n19\n00:06:47,685 --> 00:07:04,149\n我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況\n\n20\n00:07:06,590 --> 00:07:30,536\n第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的所以我看到許多印度的重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞馬上有採取說外交部有提出這一個不同的意見然後來去捍衛印度這些其他的這些人權還有一些相關的這些種族歧視的這些做法是錯誤的所以外交部的反應是快的但是跨部門的處理跟其他部門告知說哪些狀況\n\n21\n00:07:31,576 --> 00:07:31,836\n斷交的情況\n\n22\n00:08:00,029 --> 00:08:05,318\n那不管如何我們知道說中共會打壓的這個前提之下我們還是要有相對的應處\n\n23\n00:08:06,618 --> 00:08:35,034\n我想請問部長為什麼每次詢問幫營狀況的時候基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向比如說2018年3月22號外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機可是63天內就斷交了多米尼加布吉納巴索那2023年11月2號那諾魯我們說上任關係會更好可是結果一年15號斷交我的意思是說\n\n24\n00:08:36,155 --> 00:09:04,869\n我們要傳遞給幫交狀況給國人知道我們要知道說我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的但是我們至少可以預警我們至少可以知道說有危機的讓民眾先做好準備讓外交部的所有的聲音是一致的這樣子的話當中共正式斷交的時候我們早就已經做好準備所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有這個使館來去跟他們通報\n\n25\n00:09:06,533 --> 00:09:08,174\n非常謝謝委員其實我們在去年已經對外面\n\n26\n00:09:34,905 --> 00:10:01,876\n就是已經對那個立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法就只要有預警的時候那我們都會很坦誠的跟立法院這邊或者是跟社會大眾說明說我們目前是有一些預警的情資那接下來我也會依照委員的這個意思如果說有更多的這個狀況的時候那我們也會對外面來做說明但是目前那我們希望說12個國家我們都盡量維持我們的關係\n\n27\n00:10:04,597 --> 00:10:22,410\n當然是這樣是非常好,然後部長我必須要再強調,其實有很多大使他是在他的任內可能是斷交,可是他把這個狀況延緩很久,所以他其實是有,他其實應該要被獎勵的,因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程,他延緩了。\n\n28\n00:10:22,910 --> 00:10:37,663\n那有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個所以獎懲機制內部的考核必須要清晰不然就會變成說要做自己的這個攻擊但是卻把這個爛攤子留給下一任\n\n29\n00:10:39,184 --> 00:10:39,705\n﹚陳冠廷\n\n30\n00:10:55,759 --> 00:10:55,859\n主席\n\n31\n00:11:11,613 --> 00:11:12,053\n關於學生赴外的機會\n\n32\n00:11:31,781 --> 00:11:49,571\n那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務\n\n33\n00:11:52,053 --> 00:12:05,427\n這個我們可以來討論一下但是可以想像得到的就是說那個臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人他們到臺灣來可能他們是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的這個種地\n\n34\n00:12:06,929 --> 00:12:25,540\n那可是如果說到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的這個研究的需求的話可能我們也會做一些鼓勵我們希望說增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係那最後我們有外交兼兵親善大使這些附點研究\n\n35\n00:12:27,361 --> 00:12:27,521\n委員會主席\n\n36\n00:12:44,972 --> 00:12:45,852\n提供相關的經費,我認為是可以加強\n\n37\n00:13:07,397 --> 00:13:23,268\n臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可聞波計畫或者是總理亞洲甲學金這些這個我知道這個我知道但是在我們臺灣的那個practice可能目前來講還會有困難\n\n38\n00:13:25,229 --> 00:13:42,738\n但是這個idea非常好所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面通常那個權責的劃分我們外交部跟教育部就是說我們外交部這邊提供的那個scholarshipfellowship是讓其他的國家的人來申請的\n\n39\n00:13:43,874 --> 00:14:11,926\n那教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的那倒是那個教育部這邊跟外交部這邊的那個未來的那個願景是不是能夠搭配的話這個倒是那個兩個部位要討論那我們外交部這邊去成立一個像Colombo那個Colombo計畫的這個idea的話那我想這個可以來思考那我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的一個計畫\n\n40\n00:14:12,466 --> 00:14:12,486\n多謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5529\t27811\t主委好部長好那部長我說先先肯定齁其實這幾年齁讓台灣人對外交的想像能夠從邦交國然後擴展到理念相近的國家那特別是一些紐澳啊捷克啊波羅的海的國家我們是非常肯定的有肯定有期許但是當然也會指出一些我們需要改進的方向是謝謝委員\n28672\t55058\t那今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後第一時間美國日本英國德國還有澳洲50多個理念相近的國家那透過行政部門或者是國會那表達恭賀美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力然後外務大臣日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作然後法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權\n58639\t78609\t這些都是國際社會的肯定那當然我們認同民主成就的展現也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時我必須要指出回頭看我們的邦交國部長海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎\n79685\t90666\t海地是我們的友邦但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾那他們也希望能夠接下來進行那個選舉去選出他們的新的政府\n91192\t115576\t部長斯瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎?跟我們的理念相近嗎?斯瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家他們的君主的確是他們那個帶領國家的最重要的決策者但是他們也有國會的這個選舉所以他是有他獨特的政治制度我想他們在自由自家跟這些學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友?\n117510\t141782\t我想這個不只是價值的關係而是說我們台灣跟斯瓦帝尼跟海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係比如說像斯瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的這個邦交關係那個關係是非常的深厚的我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域像是聯合國大會WHA幫我們發聲他可以讓我們甚至可以因為這樣子能夠去出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交\n142162\t166527\t更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家所以這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的所以我們如果只用價值外交不斷強調單一的這種方向或者是這種面這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交的走向的話很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊\n167867\t188281\t所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰要維持我們的生活方式除了以價值外交為導向的外交我們還要考量國家利益還要考量包含政治經貿包含科技導向要有更全方位的韌性外交這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權來去限制所以我也希望說\n189642\t212650\t外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他的這些同仁來說明台灣的外交走向的時候除了價值外交也必須要跟所有的國人強調說包含科技包含經貿包含產業包含環保的政策等等這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保那我也不是說價值外交不重要因為我前面開始就強調價值外交的重要性\n213630\t232405\t但是我剛剛提到斯瓦帝尼也好海地也好還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好他們或許現階段是不民主不自由的但是我們要拿出更積極的做法來去擴大我們的民主軟實力在這一個領域上面我們要領導我們要改變我們要協助我們的邦交國\n233206\t251289\t所以作為經濟上的中等強權作為經濟學人在2023年的這個民主指數我們全球的評比是第10是亞洲之冠的民主國家我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或者是不民主的友邦來去轉型因為我們締結邦交的是國家\n252190\t278606\t不僅僅是政府所以儘管某些邦交的友邦的政體現在是不民主不代表說我們就要跟他不要跟他們有關聯性不對我們要在教育上盡量這些國家的新世代的青年在台學習所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交國家外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到讓他們能夠這些學生還繼續在台灣這就是一個我們在為下一個世代在做準備\n279366\t303244\t所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯但是我們在積極的培養下一個世代的人或許可以跟我們復交所以外交部可不可以更積極的促成這樣子的發展是那個目前比如說媒體上面所呈現的那個洪都拉斯的這個學生那這個就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力啦那有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真的來思考就是培養\n304025\t304405\t這次印度\n332589\t352988\t在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候還是可以祝賀我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的在這個特別是針對烏克蘭是不同的但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化教育貿易地緣政治的種種考量我們跟印度還是有合作空間所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠\n353869\t354009\t說到印度﹗\n371232\t388122\t這次勞動部長的失言風波在整體規劃中,外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好的溝通?非常謝謝委員提出這個問題,如果說委員看到事後,我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明\n388962\t391225\t在3月6號的書面報告外交部的回應的文字大概是兩頁其中一面是封面\n407685\t424149\t我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況\n426590\t450536\t第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的所以我看到許多印度的重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞馬上有採取說外交部有提出這一個不同的意見然後來去捍衛印度這些其他的這些人權還有一些相關的這些種族歧視的這些做法是錯誤的所以外交部的反應是快的但是跨部門的處理跟其他部門告知說哪些狀況\n451576\t451836\t斷交的情況\n480029\t485318\t那不管如何我們知道說中共會打壓的這個前提之下我們還是要有相對的應處\n486618\t515034\t我想請問部長為什麼每次詢問幫營狀況的時候基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向比如說2018年3月22號外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機可是63天內就斷交了多米尼加布吉納巴索那2023年11月2號那諾魯我們說上任關係會更好可是結果一年15號斷交我的意思是說\n516155\t544869\t我們要傳遞給幫交狀況給國人知道我們要知道說我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的但是我們至少可以預警我們至少可以知道說有危機的讓民眾先做好準備讓外交部的所有的聲音是一致的這樣子的話當中共正式斷交的時候我們早就已經做好準備所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有這個使館來去跟他們通報\n546533\t548174\t非常謝謝委員其實我們在去年已經對外面\n574905\t601876\t就是已經對那個立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法就只要有預警的時候那我們都會很坦誠的跟立法院這邊或者是跟社會大眾說明說我們目前是有一些預警的情資那接下來我也會依照委員的這個意思如果說有更多的這個狀況的時候那我們也會對外面來做說明但是目前那我們希望說12個國家我們都盡量維持我們的關係\n604597\t622410\t當然是這樣是非常好,然後部長我必須要再強調,其實有很多大使他是在他的任內可能是斷交,可是他把這個狀況延緩很久,所以他其實是有,他其實應該要被獎勵的,因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程,他延緩了。\n622910\t637663\t那有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個所以獎懲機制內部的考核必須要清晰不然就會變成說要做自己的這個攻擊但是卻把這個爛攤子留給下一任\n639184\t639705\t﹚陳冠廷\n655759\t655859\t主席\n671613\t672053\t關於學生赴外的機會\n691781\t709571\t那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務\n712053\t725427\t這個我們可以來討論一下但是可以想像得到的就是說那個臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人他們到臺灣來可能他們是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的這個種地\n726929\t745540\t那可是如果說到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的這個研究的需求的話可能我們也會做一些鼓勵我們希望說增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係那最後我們有外交兼兵親善大使這些附點研究\n747361\t747521\t委員會主席\n764972\t765852\t提供相關的經費,我認為是可以加強\n787397\t803268\t臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可聞波計畫或者是總理亞洲甲學金這些這個我知道這個我知道但是在我們臺灣的那個practice可能目前來講還會有困難\n805229\t822738\t但是這個idea非常好所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面通常那個權責的劃分我們外交部跟教育部就是說我們外交部這邊提供的那個scholarship fellowship是讓其他的國家的人來申請的\n823874\t851926\t那教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的那倒是那個教育部這邊跟外交部這邊的那個未來的那個願景是不是能夠搭配的話這個倒是那個兩個部位要討論那我們外交部這邊去成立一個像Colombo那個Colombo計畫的這個idea的話那我想這個可以來思考那我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的一個計畫\n852466\t852486\t多謝\n","txt":"主委好部長好那部長我說先先肯定齁其實這幾年齁讓台灣人對外交的想像能夠從邦交國然後擴展到理念相近的國家那特別是一些紐澳啊捷克啊波羅的海的國家我們是非常肯定的有肯定有期許但是當然也會指出一些我們需要改進的方向是謝謝委員\n那今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後第一時間美國日本英國德國還有澳洲50多個理念相近的國家那透過行政部門或者是國會那表達恭賀美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力然後外務大臣日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作然後法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權\n這些都是國際社會的肯定那當然我們認同民主成就的展現也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時我必須要指出回頭看我們的邦交國部長海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎\n海地是我們的友邦但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾那他們也希望能夠接下來進行那個選舉去選出他們的新的政府\n部長斯瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎?跟我們的理念相近嗎?斯瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家他們的君主的確是他們那個帶領國家的最重要的決策者但是他們也有國會的這個選舉所以他是有他獨特的政治制度我想他們在自由自家跟這些學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友?\n我想這個不只是價值的關係而是說我們台灣跟斯瓦帝尼跟海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係比如說像斯瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的這個邦交關係那個關係是非常的深厚的我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域像是聯合國大會WHA幫我們發聲他可以讓我們甚至可以因為這樣子能夠去出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交\n更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家所以這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的所以我們如果只用價值外交不斷強調單一的這種方向或者是這種面這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交的走向的話很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊\n所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰要維持我們的生活方式除了以價值外交為導向的外交我們還要考量國家利益還要考量包含政治經貿包含科技導向要有更全方位的韌性外交這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權來去限制所以我也希望說\n外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他的這些同仁來說明台灣的外交走向的時候除了價值外交也必須要跟所有的國人強調說包含科技包含經貿包含產業包含環保的政策等等這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保那我也不是說價值外交不重要因為我前面開始就強調價值外交的重要性\n但是我剛剛提到斯瓦帝尼也好海地也好還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好他們或許現階段是不民主不自由的但是我們要拿出更積極的做法來去擴大我們的民主軟實力在這一個領域上面我們要領導我們要改變我們要協助我們的邦交國\n所以作為經濟上的中等強權作為經濟學人在2023年的這個民主指數我們全球的評比是第10是亞洲之冠的民主國家我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或者是不民主的友邦來去轉型因為我們締結邦交的是國家\n不僅僅是政府所以儘管某些邦交的友邦的政體現在是不民主不代表說我們就要跟他不要跟他們有關聯性不對我們要在教育上盡量這些國家的新世代的青年在台學習所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交國家外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到讓他們能夠這些學生還繼續在台灣這就是一個我們在為下一個世代在做準備\n所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯但是我們在積極的培養下一個世代的人或許可以跟我們復交所以外交部可不可以更積極的促成這樣子的發展是那個目前比如說媒體上面所呈現的那個洪都拉斯的這個學生那這個就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力啦那有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真的來思考就是培養\n這次印度\n在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候還是可以祝賀我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的在這個特別是針對烏克蘭是不同的但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化教育貿易地緣政治的種種考量我們跟印度還是有合作空間所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠\n說到印度﹗\n這次勞動部長的失言風波在整體規劃中,外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好的溝通?非常謝謝委員提出這個問題,如果說委員看到事後,我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明\n在3月6號的書面報告外交部的回應的文字大概是兩頁其中一面是封面\n我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況\n第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的所以我看到許多印度的重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞馬上有採取說外交部有提出這一個不同的意見然後來去捍衛印度這些其他的這些人權還有一些相關的這些種族歧視的這些做法是錯誤的所以外交部的反應是快的但是跨部門的處理跟其他部門告知說哪些狀況\n斷交的情況\n那不管如何我們知道說中共會打壓的這個前提之下我們還是要有相對的應處\n我想請問部長為什麼每次詢問幫營狀況的時候基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向比如說2018年3月22號外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機可是63天內就斷交了多米尼加布吉納巴索那2023年11月2號那諾魯我們說上任關係會更好可是結果一年15號斷交我的意思是說\n我們要傳遞給幫交狀況給國人知道我們要知道說我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的但是我們至少可以預警我們至少可以知道說有危機的讓民眾先做好準備讓外交部的所有的聲音是一致的這樣子的話當中共正式斷交的時候我們早就已經做好準備所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有這個使館來去跟他們通報\n非常謝謝委員其實我們在去年已經對外面\n就是已經對那個立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法就只要有預警的時候那我們都會很坦誠的跟立法院這邊或者是跟社會大眾說明說我們目前是有一些預警的情資那接下來我也會依照委員的這個意思如果說有更多的這個狀況的時候那我們也會對外面來做說明但是目前那我們希望說12個國家我們都盡量維持我們的關係\n當然是這樣是非常好,然後部長我必須要再強調,其實有很多大使他是在他的任內可能是斷交,可是他把這個狀況延緩很久,所以他其實是有,他其實應該要被獎勵的,因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程,他延緩了。\n那有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個所以獎懲機制內部的考核必須要清晰不然就會變成說要做自己的這個攻擊但是卻把這個爛攤子留給下一任\n﹚陳冠廷\n主席\n關於學生赴外的機會\n那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務\n這個我們可以來討論一下但是可以想像得到的就是說那個臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人他們到臺灣來可能他們是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的這個種地\n那可是如果說到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的這個研究的需求的話可能我們也會做一些鼓勵我們希望說增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係那最後我們有外交兼兵親善大使這些附點研究\n委員會主席\n提供相關的經費,我認為是可以加強\n臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可聞波計畫或者是總理亞洲甲學金這些這個我知道這個我知道但是在我們臺灣的那個practice可能目前來講還會有困難\n但是這個idea非常好所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面通常那個權責的劃分我們外交部跟教育部就是說我們外交部這邊提供的那個scholarship fellowship是讓其他的國家的人來申請的\n那教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的那倒是那個教育部這邊跟外交部這邊的那個未來的那個願景是不是能夠搭配的話這個倒是那個兩個部位要討論那我們外交部這邊去成立一個像Colombo那個Colombo計畫的這個idea的話那我想這個可以來思考那我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的一個計畫\n多謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.529 --> 00:27.811\n主委好部長好那部長我說先先肯定齁其實這幾年齁讓台灣人對外交的想像能夠從邦交國然後擴展到理念相近的國家那特別是一些紐澳啊捷克啊波羅的海的國家我們是非常肯定的有肯定有期許但是當然也會指出一些我們需要改進的方向是謝謝委員\n\n00:28.672 --> 00:55.058\n那今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後第一時間美國日本英國德國還有澳洲50多個理念相近的國家那透過行政部門或者是國會那表達恭賀美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力然後外務大臣日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作然後法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權\n\n00:58.639 --> 01:18.609\n這些都是國際社會的肯定那當然我們認同民主成就的展現也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時我必須要指出回頭看我們的邦交國部長海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎\n\n01:19.685 --> 01:30.666\n海地是我們的友邦但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾那他們也希望能夠接下來進行那個選舉去選出他們的新的政府\n\n01:31.192 --> 01:55.576\n部長斯瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎?跟我們的理念相近嗎?斯瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家他們的君主的確是他們那個帶領國家的最重要的決策者但是他們也有國會的這個選舉所以他是有他獨特的政治制度我想他們在自由自家跟這些學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友?\n\n01:57.510 --> 02:21.782\n我想這個不只是價值的關係而是說我們台灣跟斯瓦帝尼跟海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係比如說像斯瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的這個邦交關係那個關係是非常的深厚的我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域像是聯合國大會WHA幫我們發聲他可以讓我們甚至可以因為這樣子能夠去出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交\n\n02:22.162 --> 02:46.527\n更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家所以這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的所以我們如果只用價值外交不斷強調單一的這種方向或者是這種面這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交的走向的話很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊\n\n02:47.867 --> 03:08.281\n所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰要維持我們的生活方式除了以價值外交為導向的外交我們還要考量國家利益還要考量包含政治經貿包含科技導向要有更全方位的韌性外交這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權來去限制所以我也希望說\n\n03:09.642 --> 03:32.650\n外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他的這些同仁來說明台灣的外交走向的時候除了價值外交也必須要跟所有的國人強調說包含科技包含經貿包含產業包含環保的政策等等這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保那我也不是說價值外交不重要因為我前面開始就強調價值外交的重要性\n\n03:33.630 --> 03:52.405\n但是我剛剛提到斯瓦帝尼也好海地也好還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好他們或許現階段是不民主不自由的但是我們要拿出更積極的做法來去擴大我們的民主軟實力在這一個領域上面我們要領導我們要改變我們要協助我們的邦交國\n\n03:53.206 --> 04:11.289\n所以作為經濟上的中等強權作為經濟學人在2023年的這個民主指數我們全球的評比是第10是亞洲之冠的民主國家我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或者是不民主的友邦來去轉型因為我們締結邦交的是國家\n\n04:12.190 --> 04:38.606\n不僅僅是政府所以儘管某些邦交的友邦的政體現在是不民主不代表說我們就要跟他不要跟他們有關聯性不對我們要在教育上盡量這些國家的新世代的青年在台學習所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交國家外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到讓他們能夠這些學生還繼續在台灣這就是一個我們在為下一個世代在做準備\n\n04:39.366 --> 05:03.244\n所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯但是我們在積極的培養下一個世代的人或許可以跟我們復交所以外交部可不可以更積極的促成這樣子的發展是那個目前比如說媒體上面所呈現的那個洪都拉斯的這個學生那這個就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力啦那有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真的來思考就是培養\n\n05:04.025 --> 05:04.405\n這次印度\n\n05:32.589 --> 05:52.988\n在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候還是可以祝賀我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的在這個特別是針對烏克蘭是不同的但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化教育貿易地緣政治的種種考量我們跟印度還是有合作空間所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠\n\n05:53.869 --> 05:54.009\n說到印度﹗\n\n06:11.232 --> 06:28.122\n這次勞動部長的失言風波在整體規劃中,外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好的溝通?非常謝謝委員提出這個問題,如果說委員看到事後,我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明\n\n06:28.962 --> 06:31.225\n在3月6號的書面報告外交部的回應的文字大概是兩頁其中一面是封面\n\n06:47.685 --> 07:04.149\n我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況\n\n07:06.590 --> 07:30.536\n第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的所以我看到許多印度的重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞馬上有採取說外交部有提出這一個不同的意見然後來去捍衛印度這些其他的這些人權還有一些相關的這些種族歧視的這些做法是錯誤的所以外交部的反應是快的但是跨部門的處理跟其他部門告知說哪些狀況\n\n07:31.576 --> 07:31.836\n斷交的情況\n\n08:00.029 --> 08:05.318\n那不管如何我們知道說中共會打壓的這個前提之下我們還是要有相對的應處\n\n08:06.618 --> 08:35.034\n我想請問部長為什麼每次詢問幫營狀況的時候基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向比如說2018年3月22號外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機可是63天內就斷交了多米尼加布吉納巴索那2023年11月2號那諾魯我們說上任關係會更好可是結果一年15號斷交我的意思是說\n\n08:36.155 --> 09:04.869\n我們要傳遞給幫交狀況給國人知道我們要知道說我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的但是我們至少可以預警我們至少可以知道說有危機的讓民眾先做好準備讓外交部的所有的聲音是一致的這樣子的話當中共正式斷交的時候我們早就已經做好準備所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有這個使館來去跟他們通報\n\n09:06.533 --> 09:08.174\n非常謝謝委員其實我們在去年已經對外面\n\n09:34.905 --> 10:01.876\n就是已經對那個立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法就只要有預警的時候那我們都會很坦誠的跟立法院這邊或者是跟社會大眾說明說我們目前是有一些預警的情資那接下來我也會依照委員的這個意思如果說有更多的這個狀況的時候那我們也會對外面來做說明但是目前那我們希望說12個國家我們都盡量維持我們的關係\n\n10:04.597 --> 10:22.410\n當然是這樣是非常好,然後部長我必須要再強調,其實有很多大使他是在他的任內可能是斷交,可是他把這個狀況延緩很久,所以他其實是有,他其實應該要被獎勵的,因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程,他延緩了。\n\n10:22.910 --> 10:37.663\n那有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個所以獎懲機制內部的考核必須要清晰不然就會變成說要做自己的這個攻擊但是卻把這個爛攤子留給下一任\n\n10:39.184 --> 10:39.705\n﹚陳冠廷\n\n10:55.759 --> 10:55.859\n主席\n\n11:11.613 --> 11:12.053\n關於學生赴外的機會\n\n11:31.781 --> 11:49.571\n那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務\n\n11:52.053 --> 12:05.427\n這個我們可以來討論一下但是可以想像得到的就是說那個臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人他們到臺灣來可能他們是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的這個種地\n\n12:06.929 --> 12:25.540\n那可是如果說到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的這個研究的需求的話可能我們也會做一些鼓勵我們希望說增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係那最後我們有外交兼兵親善大使這些附點研究\n\n12:27.361 --> 12:27.521\n委員會主席\n\n12:44.972 --> 12:45.852\n提供相關的經費,我認為是可以加強\n\n13:07.397 --> 13:23.268\n臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可聞波計畫或者是總理亞洲甲學金這些這個我知道這個我知道但是在我們臺灣的那個practice可能目前來講還會有困難\n\n13:25.229 --> 13:42.738\n但是這個idea非常好所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面通常那個權責的劃分我們外交部跟教育部就是說我們外交部這邊提供的那個scholarshipfellowship是讓其他的國家的人來申請的\n\n13:43.874 --> 14:11.926\n那教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的那倒是那個教育部這邊跟外交部這邊的那個未來的那個願景是不是能夠搭配的話這個倒是那個兩個部位要討論那我們外交部這邊去成立一個像Colombo那個Colombo計畫的這個idea的話那我想這個可以來思考那我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的一個計畫\n\n14:12.466 --> 14:12.486\n多謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.529,"end":27.811,"text":"主委好部長好那部長我說先先肯定齁其實這幾年齁讓台灣人對外交的想像能夠從邦交國然後擴展到理念相近的國家那特別是一些紐澳啊捷克啊波羅的海的國家我們是非常肯定的有肯定有期許但是當然也會指出一些我們需要改進的方向是謝謝委員"},{"start":28.672,"end":55.058,"text":"那今年年初我們國家舉辦完民主的大選之後第一時間美國日本英國德國還有澳洲50多個理念相近的國家那透過行政部門或者是國會那表達恭賀美國國務卿布林肯說再一次展現民主制度及選舉程序的實力然後外務大臣日本的外務大臣說未來將與臺灣密切合作然後法國國會上下兩院的議員都強調要呼籲國際確保跟臺灣的民主還有主權"},{"start":58.639,"end":78.609,"text":"這些都是國際社會的肯定那當然我們認同民主成就的展現也是我們深化與理念價值相近國家的基礎但是我們一直強調價值外交的同時我必須要指出回頭看我們的邦交國部長海地是跟我們理念相近的國家嗎"},{"start":79.685,"end":90.666,"text":"海地是我們的友邦但是因為目前政治是相當的紛擾那他們也希望能夠接下來進行那個選舉去選出他們的新的政府"},{"start":91.192,"end":115.576,"text":"部長斯瓦帝尼是民主國家嗎?跟我們的理念相近嗎?斯瓦帝尼是一個君主立憲的國家他們的君主的確是他們那個帶領國家的最重要的決策者但是他們也有國會的這個選舉所以他是有他獨特的政治制度我想他們在自由自家跟這些學人的評比都相對的不是不自由就是部分自由所以為什麼我們還要跟他做朋友?"},{"start":117.51,"end":141.782,"text":"我想這個不只是價值的關係而是說我們台灣跟斯瓦帝尼跟海地已經有非常悠久的邦交關係比如說像斯瓦帝尼跟我們已經有56年的這個邦交關係那個關係是非常的深厚的我們需要這些邦交國在國際的場域像是聯合國大會WHA幫我們發聲他可以讓我們甚至可以因為這樣子能夠去出訪友邦的行程去處理過境外交"},{"start":142.162,"end":166.527,"text":"更重要的是這些邦交國的關係存在也彰顯我們是主權獨立的國家所以這層關係不是單純用價值外交可以定義的所以我們如果只用價值外交不斷強調單一的這種方向或者是這種面這種方向來去向外界說明我們的外交的走向的話很容易被中國的敘事框架打擊"},{"start":167.867,"end":188.281,"text":"所以我認為面對地緣政治的挑戰要維持我們的生活方式除了以價值外交為導向的外交我們還要考量國家利益還要考量包含政治經貿包含科技導向要有更全方位的韌性外交這樣子具備的敘事方式才不會被中國的話語權來去限制所以我也希望說"},{"start":189.642,"end":212.65,"text":"外交部的同仁未來在跟我們其他的這些同仁來說明台灣的外交走向的時候除了價值外交也必須要跟所有的國人強調說包含科技包含經貿包含產業包含環保的政策等等這樣子的話我們的話語權才能夠被確保那我也不是說價值外交不重要因為我前面開始就強調價值外交的重要性"},{"start":213.63,"end":232.405,"text":"但是我剛剛提到斯瓦帝尼也好海地也好還有包含之前跟我們斷交的這些國家也好他們或許現階段是不民主不自由的但是我們要拿出更積極的做法來去擴大我們的民主軟實力在這一個領域上面我們要領導我們要改變我們要協助我們的邦交國"},{"start":233.206,"end":251.289,"text":"所以作為經濟上的中等強權作為經濟學人在2023年的這個民主指數我們全球的評比是第10是亞洲之冠的民主國家我們有領導的責任來協助部分民主或者是不民主的友邦來去轉型因為我們締結邦交的是國家"},{"start":252.19,"end":278.606,"text":"不僅僅是政府所以儘管某些邦交的友邦的政體現在是不民主不代表說我們就要跟他不要跟他們有關聯性不對我們要在教育上盡量這些國家的新世代的青年在台學習所以我還是必須肯定包含這些跟我們斷交國家外交部都有積極協處讓教育部能夠找到讓他們能夠這些學生還繼續在台灣這就是一個我們在為下一個世代在做準備"},{"start":279.366,"end":303.244,"text":"所以政府可能會跟我們斷交沒錯但是我們在積極的培養下一個世代的人或許可以跟我們復交所以外交部可不可以更積極的促成這樣子的發展是那個目前比如說媒體上面所呈現的那個洪都拉斯的這個學生那這個就是我們外交部有在幫他們做努力啦那有關於這方面我們的確是必須要認真的來思考就是培養"},{"start":304.025,"end":304.405,"text":"這次印度"},{"start":332.589,"end":352.988,"text":"在歐美國家不給普丁賀電的時候還是可以祝賀我們跟他的政策基本上是不同的在這個特別是針對烏克蘭是不同的但是基於供應鏈還有一些文化教育貿易地緣政治的種種考量我們跟印度還是有合作空間所以我一直在說我們的敘事權不能夠"},{"start":353.869,"end":354.009,"text":"說到印度﹗"},{"start":371.232,"end":388.122,"text":"這次勞動部長的失言風波在整體規劃中,外交部有沒有跟勞動部好好的溝通?非常謝謝委員提出這個問題,如果說委員看到事後,我們外交部和勞動部這邊都有出來對外面做說明"},{"start":388.962,"end":391.225,"text":"在3月6號的書面報告外交部的回應的文字大概是兩頁其中一面是封面"},{"start":407.685,"end":424.149,"text":"我認為說這不是勞動部的責任而已外交部以後相關的特別跟國情相關的必須要跟其他的部門有協同的合作讓這些勞動部長在做出重大決策之前有完整的國情報告跟他們來解釋一下讓他們更理解狀況"},{"start":426.59,"end":450.536,"text":"第一時間外交部的反應其實是正面的所以我看到許多印度的重要的一些包含社群媒體跟新聞馬上有採取說外交部有提出這一個不同的意見然後來去捍衛印度這些其他的這些人權還有一些相關的這些種族歧視的這些做法是錯誤的所以外交部的反應是快的但是跨部門的處理跟其他部門告知說哪些狀況"},{"start":451.576,"end":451.836,"text":"斷交的情況"},{"start":480.029,"end":485.318,"text":"那不管如何我們知道說中共會打壓的這個前提之下我們還是要有相對的應處"},{"start":486.618,"end":515.034,"text":"我想請問部長為什麼每次詢問幫營狀況的時候基本上我們的回應都是說沒有問題但是後來就有呈現出比較不好的走向比如說2018年3月22號外交部在備詢的時候說沒有外交危機可是63天內就斷交了多米尼加布吉納巴索那2023年11月2號那諾魯我們說上任關係會更好可是結果一年15號斷交我的意思是說"},{"start":516.155,"end":544.869,"text":"我們要傳遞給幫交狀況給國人知道我們要知道說我們遇到的挑戰不是我們所想要的但是我們至少可以預警我們至少可以知道說有危機的讓民眾先做好準備讓外交部的所有的聲音是一致的這樣子的話當中共正式斷交的時候我們早就已經做好準備所以我很誠摯的希望部長能夠跟所有這個使館來去跟他們通報"},{"start":546.533,"end":548.174,"text":"非常謝謝委員其實我們在去年已經對外面"},{"start":574.905,"end":601.876,"text":"就是已經對那個立法院或者是對社會大眾有改變一些說法就只要有預警的時候那我們都會很坦誠的跟立法院這邊或者是跟社會大眾說明說我們目前是有一些預警的情資那接下來我也會依照委員的這個意思如果說有更多的這個狀況的時候那我們也會對外面來做說明但是目前那我們希望說12個國家我們都盡量維持我們的關係"},{"start":604.597,"end":622.41,"text":"當然是這樣是非常好,然後部長我必須要再強調,其實有很多大使他是在他的任內可能是斷交,可是他把這個狀況延緩很久,所以他其實是有,他其實應該要被獎勵的,因為他把原本可能會被斷交的時程,他延緩了。"},{"start":622.91,"end":637.663,"text":"那有一些是在他的時程內沒有斷交可是他一離開馬上把鍋推給下一個所以獎懲機制內部的考核必須要清晰不然就會變成說要做自己的這個攻擊但是卻把這個爛攤子留給下一任"},{"start":639.184,"end":639.705,"text":"﹚陳冠廷"},{"start":655.759,"end":655.859,"text":"主席"},{"start":671.613,"end":672.053,"text":"關於學生赴外的機會"},{"start":691.781,"end":709.571,"text":"那剛才我也肯定部長在宏都拉斯留台學生的態度上那是基於善一個人道精神其實都是替台灣爭取軟實力的基礎那我在想說這些台灣獎學金的受獎學人在台灣是不是有什麼義務規範可不可以讓他們到偏鄉來去做一些相關的服務"},{"start":712.053,"end":725.427,"text":"這個我們可以來討論一下但是可以想像得到的就是說那個臺灣獎學金的這些受獎人他們到臺灣來可能他們是希望能夠在一些比較能夠做學術研究的這個種地"},{"start":726.929,"end":745.54,"text":"那可是如果說到偏鄉去是能夠符合他們的這個研究的需求的話可能我們也會做一些鼓勵我們希望說增加這樣的互動來增加我們對友邦的認識跟他們之間的關係那最後我們有外交兼兵親善大使這些附點研究"},{"start":747.361,"end":747.521,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":764.972,"end":765.852,"text":"提供相關的經費,我認為是可以加強"},{"start":787.397,"end":803.268,"text":"臺灣的軟實力跟我們國際對外的連結不知道部長有沒有聽過相關的新可聞波計畫或者是總理亞洲甲學金這些這個我知道這個我知道但是在我們臺灣的那個practice可能目前來講還會有困難"},{"start":805.229,"end":822.738,"text":"但是這個idea非常好所以我們來討論一下看是不是能夠列入到我們的政策裡面通常那個權責的劃分我們外交部跟教育部就是說我們外交部這邊提供的那個scholarship fellowship是讓其他的國家的人來申請的"},{"start":823.874,"end":851.926,"text":"那教育部這邊提供的獎學金是讓我們的國人去申請的那倒是那個教育部這邊跟外交部這邊的那個未來的那個願景是不是能夠搭配的話這個倒是那個兩個部位要討論那我們外交部這邊去成立一個像Colombo那個Colombo計畫的這個idea的話那我想這個可以來思考那我們跟同仁來討論看是不是能夠成為一個新的一個計畫"},{"start":852.466,"end":852.486,"text":"多謝"}]}}}}