{"id":150142,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150142","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192b345bcd1891fff772c38239db8676b4ff8ba9b0039caa7a6d6c0f0b264154b055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:28:12 - 11:42:23","影片長度":"00:14:11","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":851,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:42:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:28:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":815,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時28分）主席、各位大家好。請我們許部長。"],["主席：好，請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，現在性工法第四章促進工作平等措施，第十五條明文規定，女性在受僱期間，依妊娠週數分娩、流產等狀況應停止工作，且給予產假的天數是不一樣的。我今天要討論的是流產假，事實上你們在這裡面談的是分娩前後或者是妊娠3個月以上，產假是有薪，給予他假又給他薪；但是3個月以下的流產，就是未滿3個月或者是未滿2個月，你給的假是不一樣的。你們在3個月以下，在性工法裡面，給了一個禮拜或是至少5天的這個假……"],["許部長銘春：對，5天。"],["林委員淑芬：並且不能夠扣全勤。然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第九條，未滿3個月的流產，如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的，不可以扣全勤，看起來好像有利於母性保護，可是我們看到背後凸顯的問題卻是沒有薪資，沒有薪資！流產假沒有薪資這個事情，要嘛請傷病假，傷病假看起來好像給了半薪，可是傷病假總天數是30天，如果真的是普通的傷病，排擠到真正的傷病，所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資，要嘛就請特休、無薪假，我覺得這對婦女來講相當不公平，成功生出一個小孩才算有功勞，才會給假、給薪水；如果流產了，沒有成功生出一個小孩，已經夠悲傷了，假比較短、休息天數比較少就算了，也沒有給他們薪水，在法律上完全沒有任何的保障。","我看你們今天公布了請假規則第九條，還是一樣沒有薪資，你們是依據91年的函釋，建議勞工去請有薪的、半薪的病假，那你覺得呢？部長，你覺得這樣子公平嗎？"],["許部長銘春：對，委員，我覺得這個部分應該有檢討的空間，現在最主要的就是，到底這個薪資的給付是要企業主來負擔，還是要朝公共化？由企業主負擔，我們會比較擔心會造成女性隱形的就業障礙，所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適，但公共化的部分……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有，我先問你第一個，該不該給錢啊？"],["許部長銘春：我是認為該給啦！"],["林委員淑芬：該給，那現在就是誰出？"],["許部長銘春：對，誰出？"],["林委員淑芬：那你覺得這個誰出？這會需要很大一筆錢嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我們之前有算過，大概1億8,000萬。"],["林委員淑芬：1億8,000萬來照顧流產的女性，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個……"],["林委員淑芬：以前的人說：生得過雞酒香，生不過四塊板，現在說：你生得出來給你薪水，生不出來沒功勞、沒薪水。所以你為了1億8,000萬這樣子對待流產的婦女，我覺得是不是能夠照顧一下流產的婦女啦！好不好？"],["許部長銘春：這個我們會來跟……"],["林委員淑芬：有點好笑的是，如果妊娠3個月以上才流產，妊娠92天流產，工作滿6個月是拿全薪喔！妊娠90天或89天，差3、4天，未滿3個月就沒薪水，不然就傷病假、半薪，這個排擠了傷病假啦！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們會來跟主計開會……"],["林委員淑芬：你覺得應該有……"],["許部長銘春：我覺得應該給啦！"],["林委員淑芬：大大的改進可能性……"],["許部長銘春：我覺得有改進的空間，因為這部分財源我剛剛講可能朝公共化會比較快……"],["林委員淑芬：沒關係，你找得到錢，我們不反對，我們只要有薪的流產假，可以喔？"],["許部長銘春：這個部分我是支持啦！"],["林委員淑芬：好，接下來我就要講，因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留停改成彈性親職假、有薪的彈性親職假，結果司長就公布了彈性育嬰留停試辦計畫，但是我們看一下這個試辦原則，司長跟部長你們看一下，你們公布了之後，第一個找的試辦對象就是育有3歲以下的輪班、排班者，在第一線服務社會大眾的受僱者，大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的，其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑，你知道平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班、排班的，然後擺明是要讓試辦機關……"],["許部長銘春：試辦是建議啦！我們是建議含括這個部分啦！"],["林委員淑芬：不是啦！你們就講建議含括輪班、排班，事實上你們去找的也是輪班、排班的居多。部長，我現在要跟你說，你去找最沒有彈性的職業來試辦這個有彈性的育嬰留停試辦計畫，在最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去，我看可能會失敗，到底這個試辦計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石，還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，報告委員，其實我們是說「含括」，因為我們大家都知道這些輪班、排班可能比較難，但是我們要瞭解他們的難處到底在哪裡……"],["林委員淑芬：對啦！一個試辦計畫，你們找最困難的職業去試辦……"],["許部長銘春：不是，不只是他們啦！全部都有包括啦！現在只是說這個對象不會排除他，是這樣的意思啦！"],["林委員淑芬：好啦，我知道啦！好啦，沒關係啦！我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念，第一個，我們現有的育嬰留停不是假，各位，育嬰留停不是假，它是年資中斷的，它從來不是假，所以它是一個契約終止的概念，而我們其實一直主張的是彈性的育嬰假、親職假不是育嬰而已，我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段，我上個禮拜也跟你講，育兒的勞動婦女離職都在小孩3歲到6歲，其實不是你講的零到3歲而已，他們需要陪伴、需要很多的照顧，其實是很長的一段時間，所以這如果是假的話就沒有契約終止中斷的概念。","我們都知道缺工、少子化是目前臺灣企業最大的危機，也是永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題，如果大家都想暫時離開職場、育嬰留停，那你們去看他們有沒有回到原崗位？有。零到3歲有回到原崗位，可是這個指標不能作為指標，因為我們都知道，離開職場重返職位之後，在小孩3歲、6歲時，他的離職率是最高的，不是去看他們有沒有重新回到這個職位上，不是看這樣的概念而已。所以我們希望有薪親職假，我沒有說要替代育嬰留停，育嬰留停的模式也是一種選擇，可以維持，但要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪親職假，讓留停、停職、停薪跟彈性的親職假這兩種選擇都在。","在這種狀況裡面，我才會講你們這個試辦計畫除了找輪班、排班的以外，我們外界也不看好啦！外界不看好的狀況是因為，第一、沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦；第二、雇主根本不知道這是什麼樣態，所謂的彈性親職假是什麼樣態？5天是什麼樣態？你們也沒有提供任何模式和樣態供企業參考，他們怎麼去擴展，提供誘因讓企業加入呢？沒有模式可以參考；第三、我們建議勞動部要蒐集國內外施行彈性育嬰假企業的案例跟作法，提供給雇主參考，最重要的是試辦計畫一定要完整的說明，像是這個工作生活衡平得獎措施、得獎事蹟要包含全薪育兒假6週、全薪家庭照顧假15天，暑假的週五、重要節日提早下班，或者是每天工作7小時，或者是有部分企業ESG報告，他們已經揭露、已經在提供有薪安心照顧假。","其實我們希望你們要解決缺工和少子化的危機，你們要想到一個問題，不是讓勞工保留完整的工時、讓生育的勞工要留下來、叫他們經常性的延長工時或8小時要做好做滿，或是還要延長工時，不是！延長工時的時候，小孩要誰顧？托育產業要顧。可是你們有沒有想過，托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多，有九成、八成，托育產業的從業人員也有子女，他的子女要怎麼辦？所以你們讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時，也彈性的減少一點工時，讓托育產業的女性勞工可以早一點，不要每天都要拖到三更半夜才能回去，那他的小孩又是一個問題。兼顧兩者，讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養，讓工作現場的女性也能彈性的回去做好他的親職角色。","我現在講，其實讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨，兒童權利公約的意旨在講，締約國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任，而專家都講，對兒少缺少休息陪伴就是最嚴重的問題。爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有時間從事好的親職互動、沒有陪伴，也不符合兒童權利公約裡的規範。","我最後要再講，育嬰假彈性化是國際趨勢，在這種國際趨勢下，各國作法包含可以選擇全職或兼職、包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間、包含可以選擇較長時間但給付較低的休假，或者給予時間較短但給付較高的休假，所以其實有很多樣態的。至於休假方式的不同，我們從研究上都看到，女性往往都請連續長假，男性都會請比較彈性、比較短時間的，顯示這種彈性休假安排也會讓男性參與育兒的比例提高啊！所以，照顧需求這類假及我們主張的彈性親職假，真的要這樣才能留住女性的勞動參與率。不要一下降到四成多、大家動不動就要求開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工，留住女性的勞動參與率很重要！部長，對於這項試辦計畫，試辦家數不能看起來全部都是排班、輪班這種最困難的，既然你說包含而已，不是以他們為主，那我就希望你應該好好宣導，告訴我們要參與試辦的企業，我們到時候一定會檢視嘛！參與試辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊！"],["許部長銘春：是，這個我們來做。"],["林委員淑芬：希望這個試辦計畫是成功的試金石，而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員的指教，這部分我們會來……"],["林委員淑芬：最後是我今天剛剛開始所講的流產假有薪，有薪流產假要承諾給我們喔！"],["許部長銘春：好，我們會就經費部分好好規劃。"],["林委員淑芬：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。","現在處理臨時提案，總共有10案，請一併宣讀。","一、","鑒於失聯移工並無健保或醫療保險，看病將造成醫院醫療呆帳，而移工所生子女也難以就醫、施打疫苗，許多失聯移工因擔心被遣返回國也不願尋求政府協助，對兒童人權影響甚鉅。","爰要求勞動部會同衛福部，就失聯移工及其在台所生子女，難以獲取醫療資源問題，研擬具體因應作為，於一個月內向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：王育敏　　陳菁徽　　盧縣一","二、","有鑑於監察院曾對勞動部提出糾正，指出我國雖明文禁止雇主以女性移工懷孕為由單方面終止聘僱契約，惟經監察院調查後，仍發現實務上有雇主、仲介要求或勸說懷孕移工在孕期7個月前解約回國，或者以被看護者沒有看護需求、移工表現未通過考核等理由，終止聘僱或不續聘，導致有移工擔心被解僱，只好隱忍懷孕消息而未做產檢，突顯勞動部空有法令政策與措施，卻落實不足，嚴重影響懷孕移工權益，甚至成為失聯移工。","爰要求勞動部應就落實法令禁止雇主非法解僱懷孕移工，以及針對移工在臺工作期間撫養子女之需求，研議具體改善方案，於一個月內向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：王育敏　　陳菁徽　　盧縣一","三、","有鑑於我國社福移工人數高達23萬7,061人，其中21萬餘人屬於不適用勞動基準法保障之家庭看護及家庭幫傭，此類移工若在台灣懷孕生子也無法申請勞保生育給付，後續養育子女經濟負擔極重，更易造成移工失聯逃逸之狀況。","爰要求勞動部針對不適用勞動基準法之社福移工在台懷孕生子，研擬政府資源協助方案，於一個月內向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：王育敏　　陳菁徽　　盧縣一","四、","案由：據衛福部統計，2022年全台總計27,134位托育人員（保母），其中50歲以上佔61.9%，預估5至10年內將陸續退出職場，人力供給攔腰斬半。此外，彭婉如基金會亦指出，當下育有3歲以下子女的女性勞參率超過7成，如需滿足家長送托需求，113年底需再增加4千名托育人員，顯見無論短中長期，托育人力皆需才孔急。爰此，建請勞動部於兩個月內，研議修正「外國人從事就業服務法第四十六條第一項第一款至第六款工作資格及審查標準」，將「托育工作」納入「專門性或技術性之工作」之列，延攬「畢業僑外生」留台並投入托育工作，以解決托育人員短缺之窘境。","提案人：涂權吉","連署人：盧縣一　　蘇清泉","五、","長期以來，政府普遍把社會安全網當成安定民心的解方，兒虐事件發生後衛福部及地方政府亦提出提升訪視頻率及社工敏感度的處置方式，卻無其他配套措施，形同讓社工承擔補破網的責任，但相關預防措施應為全面檢討社會問題，由志工、社區、警政、衛政、社政等單位共同協力，才能落實。再者，相關部會提出的不定時訪視，由社工做突襲家訪，缺乏法源依據，實務執行並不容易，在既有社工服務量能下，增加訪視頻率將直接壓縮既有訪視品質，並且可能讓社工工作量遽增。衛福部作為主管機關，實應該思考妥善措施，以保障社工執業安全。","面對檢討與改革，衛福部應正視社工工會提出五大訴求，包括，「全面檢視社會問題成因，別把社安網當成社工網」、「邀集實務代表重開兒虐檢討會」、「收回提高社工訪視頻率要求」、「保障社工執業安全，別讓社工遭肉搜怒罵」、「落實社工薪資制度，重視社工工作負擔及量能」，並且妥適回應訴求。爰此提案要求，衛福部應全面檢討社工執業安全保障等相關措施，並盡速回應相關訴求。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　劉建國　　范　雲　　吳沛憶","六、","近期發生兒童經兒福聯盟轉介保母照顧卻遭保母虐死之事件，意外讓外界發現，兒福聯盟坐擁龐大資產，近5年捐款收入超過31.2億元，惟第一線服務的基層社工、提供寄養服務保母、及眾多待服務個案，並未得到相對等的薪資及保護服務，支出僅佔收入的一半不到，顯然與民眾善意捐款初衷有落差。觀諸其他基金會，支出比例均與收入所差無幾，甚至收入不及支出，大有人在。基層社工工作環境壓力大，薪資水準偏低，保母亦然，兒福聯盟身為兒少保護團體的領頭羊，應較坊間更注重社工與保母的執業保障，以維持其穩定性。爰提案要求教育部與衛福部善盡管理機關之責，要求兒盟就財務、捐款流向、社工與保母執業保障、服務個案等提出改善報告，並向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　劉建國","七、","查兒福聯盟近5年捐款收入超過31.2億元，理應有足夠資源聘請專業社工人力投入服務個案，以近期發生兒童遭保母虐死事件為例，實不應發生，社工疑因長期人力不足業務繁重，壓縮訪視時間、敏感度不足，又依照內部機制，出問題時第一線社工沒發現，第二線督導從訪視紀錄報告也『漏接』？而對整件事毫無所悉，顯見兒盟內部訪視督導機制有檢討改善空間，爰要求衛福部儘速瞭解，並要求兒盟改善。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　劉建國","八、","基於近期發生之劉童遭保母虐死事件，為極力防止該事件再次發生，衛生福利部檢討我國《居家式托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法》各縣市執行問題。請衛福部要求各縣市提供居家托育人員違反《居家式托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法》及《兒少福利與權益保障法》相關規定的處理原則之報告，供本委員會委員審視；並於一個月內公告建立各縣市統一的處理原則，以明確行政程序。","提案人：林月琴","連署人：王正旭　　黃秀芳　　劉建國　　吳沛憶","九、","基於近期發生托育人員不適任問題，請衛生福利部與教育部檢討不適任托育、教保人員資料庫勾稽問題。並請衛福部及教育部提供「各縣市托嬰中心及托育人員違反兒少相關法規公告專區」及「全國教保服務機構不適任人員資料庫」勾稽時間、頻率之報告，供本委員會委員審視；並於一個月內公告建立各縣市統一勾稽時間、頻率的處理原則，以明確行政程序。","提案人：林月琴","連署人：王正旭　　黃秀芳　　劉建國　　范　雲　　吳沛憶","十、","案由：勞動部推動彈性育嬰留職停薪試辦計畫，然而恐因缺乏誘因、未達到足夠彈性、配套不完備，使該試辦計畫恐難成功吸引企業加入響應，使試辦計畫之美意打折。","為使勞動部彈性育嬰留職停薪試辦計畫推行順利，亦能藉由試辦計畫找出企業之困境與家庭之需求，勞動部應研議簡化育嬰留停津貼申請流程，提出具體誘因與鼓勵措施；彈性放寬試辦計畫限制；延長計畫執行時間，提出事前宣導、事後檢討具體規劃；並邀請關注托育、照顧議題之民團討論諮詢。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　劉建國　　范　雲　　吳沛憶"],["主席：現在開始處理臨時提案。","請問對於第一案，行政單位有沒有意見？"],["蔡署長孟良：報告委員，關於第一案，勞動部其實也在跟衛福部就委員所關心的失聯移工及其子女醫療這個部分討論，目前正在進行。但因為這個案子涉及相關部會，我們與移工團體、社福團體可能也要再做一些研商，建議將倒數第2行「研擬……」改為「研議具體因應作為」，至於「於一個月內」，是不是可以給我們兩個月之內時間，我們儘快把這樣的做法具體呈現出來，提供給委員會。"],["主席：好，兩個月內要有具體內容喔！"],["蔡署長孟良：是。"],["主席：好，那就修正通過。","進行第二案。"],["蔡署長孟良：第二案也一樣，是否同意我們將倒數第2行的「一個月」改為「兩個月」，讓我們研議？"],["主席：好，都要提出具體方案喔！修正通過。","進行第三案。"],["蔡署長孟良：第三案也一樣，建議倒數第3行的「研擬」改為「研議」、「一個月」改為「兩個月」。"],["主席：這個需要那麼久嗎？這其實很簡單耶！"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，對於這件案子，我們會併同整個移工懷孕……"],["主席：會一起處理嘛！"],["蔡署長孟良：對，會一起完整處理。"],["主席：好啊！那到時候你們就提出完整報告。"],["蔡署長孟良：是。"],["主席：修正通過。","進行第四案。"],["蔡署長孟良：第四案經過跟委員溝通，倒數第5行提及「建議勞動部於兩個月內」，我們則建議，由於涉及我們與衛福部主管的意見，能不能加上「會商衛福部」？「研議修正」後則沒有修正，就是加5個字「會商衛福部」。"],["主席：好，涂委員有沒有意見？這樣修正都可以喔？好，修正通過。","進行第五案。"],["簡署長慧娟：沒有意見。"],["主席：沒有意見，通過。","進行第六案。"],["簡署長慧娟：沒有意見。"],["主席：沒有意見，通過。","進行第七案。"],["簡署長慧娟：沒有意見。"],["主席：沒有意見，通過。","進行第八案。"],["簡署長慧娟：關於第八案，基本上我們對於整個居家保母的違規作法已經訂有一項處理原則，剛才也跟委員溝通，建請修正一些文字。第3行「請衛福部」之後刪除「要求各縣市」，因為中央已經定了。後面就到「提供居家托育人員違反《居家式托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法》及《兒少福利與權益保障法》相關規定的處理原則」這裡，後面的文字刪除。"],["主席：溝通好了嗎？"],["簡署長慧娟：溝通好了。"],["主席：好，那就修正後通過。","進行第九案。"],["簡署長慧娟：針對第九案，剛才也跟委員溝通過，基本上，違反法規公告專區不是在做勾稽的，勾稽系統的名稱是托育服務整合資訊系統，所以第3行「各縣市托嬰中心及托育人員違反兒少相關法規公告專區」應該修正成「托育服務整合資訊系統」。倒數第3行提及我們會提供給委員勾稽相關時間、頻率，就到「頻率」為止，後面文字都刪除。這部分也跟林委員溝通了。"],["主席：好，那就修正後通過。","進行第十案。"],["黃司長維琛：針對第十案，剛剛跟委員溝通過文字修正，資料已經送給議事組。"],["范委員雲：你再介紹一下倒數第3行。"],["主席：對，你稍微念一下。"],["黃司長維琛：好。倒數第3行「延長計畫執行時間」這幾個字刪除，委員已經同意、簽字。"],["主席：好，那就修正後通過。","臨時提案已經處理完畢。","接下來請李坤城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","范雲","李坤城","洪孟楷","李彥秀","吳沛憶","洪申翰","牛煦庭","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra 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\"案\", \"start\": 848.808, \"end\": 849.509, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"鑑\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 849.509, \"end\": 849.669, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 849.669, \"end\": 850.07, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 850.07, \"end\": 850.23, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 850.23, \"end\": 850.25, \"score\": 0.226}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,414 --> 00:00:13,439\n主席,各位大家好,事實上是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。\n\n2\n00:00:18,712 --> 00:00:35,813\n部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停職工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。\n\n3\n00:00:36,454 --> 00:01:00,330\n那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的\n\n4\n00:01:07,034 --> 00:01:18,342\n三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第9條未滿三個月的流產\n\n5\n00:01:24,146 --> 00:01:38,690\n如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的不可以扣全勤,看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資\n\n6\n00:01:40,951 --> 00:01:55,577\n流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病\n\n7\n00:01:56,377 --> 00:02:17,105\n所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水\n\n8\n00:02:17,705 --> 00:02:34,620\n如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條\n\n9\n00:02:38,764 --> 00:02:50,102\n還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個91年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢\n\n10\n00:02:51,482 --> 00:03:15,469\n部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但\n\n11\n00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:24,412\n公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性\n\n12\n00:03:41,442 --> 00:03:56,844\n可以嗎?各位知道人家說,生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒說話,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女,我是覺得是不是能夠\n\n13\n00:03:58,065 --> 00:04:24,686\n照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好像是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月沒薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦\n\n14\n00:04:25,486 --> 00:04:41,793\n報告委員這我看我們會來跟主席我覺得應該有大大的改進的可能性了那我們也跟因為這個裁員我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦你找得到錢喔我們不反對我們只要有心的流產價\n\n15\n00:04:45,665 --> 00:05:01,197\n這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了\n\n16\n00:05:07,762 --> 00:05:26,275\n但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則司長跟部長你看一下你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的\n\n17\n00:05:26,855 --> 00:05:36,320\n其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了只要像事辦計畫我們事辦計畫建議啦我們就是建議韓國這個部分啦\n\n18\n00:05:45,305 --> 00:05:58,111\n不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗\n\n19\n00:06:08,436 --> 00:06:13,703\n然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦\n\n20\n00:06:20,223 --> 00:06:48,017\n這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說瞭解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要瞭解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假\n\n21\n00:06:48,777 --> 00:07:10,556\n各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲\n\n22\n00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:40,077\n其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題\n\n23\n00:07:41,238 --> 00:08:02,718\n如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的\n\n24\n00:08:03,018 --> 00:08:18,044\n三歲、六歲就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有薪清職假我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持\n\n25\n00:08:19,685 --> 00:08:25,291\n但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在\n\n26\n00:08:36,121 --> 00:08:53,492\n所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦\n\n27\n00:08:54,292 --> 00:09:13,684\n然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考\n\n28\n00:09:14,665 --> 00:09:29,236\n第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的事辦計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明\n\n29\n00:09:30,396 --> 00:09:57,265\n像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你\n\n30\n00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:02,751\n這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題\n\n31\n00:10:04,113 --> 00:10:30,165\n你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔\n\n32\n00:10:30,926 --> 00:10:32,932\n托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」\n\n33\n00:10:39,269 --> 00:11:07,664\n所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每一天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養\n\n34\n00:11:09,249 --> 00:11:24,539\n讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的角色。讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨。」\n\n35\n00:11:25,419 --> 00:11:39,685\n所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息、陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題\n\n36\n00:11:40,845 --> 00:11:52,994\n爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親職互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講這個育嬰談嫁談性話是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他\n\n37\n00:12:02,059 --> 00:12:09,922\n要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假\n\n38\n00:12:20,085 --> 00:12:39,020\n實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個\n\n39\n00:12:42,142 --> 00:12:53,947\n及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性\n\n40\n00:12:57,909 --> 00:13:11,994\n這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要\n\n41\n00:13:13,834 --> 00:13:35,067\n部長,這個事辦計畫,現在事辦的家屬,你不要看起來全部都輪班排班,一種最困難的,你是說包含而已,不是以他們為主,那我們就希望說,你應該要去好好的宣導,然後告訴我們,要參與事辦的企業,我們到時候一定會檢視嘛,參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊?\n\n42\n00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:46,213\n希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。流產價有心,有心流產價要承諾給我們\n\n43\n00:13:56,889 --> 00:14:10,250\n好,我們會來把那個經費的部分,然後來規劃。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。現在處理臨時提案,總共有10案,請一併宣讀。林淑芬委員臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8414\t13439\t主席,各位大家好,事實上是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。\n18712\t35813\t部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停職工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。\n36454\t60330\t那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的\n67034\t78342\t三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第9條未滿三個月的流產\n84146\t98690\t如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的不可以扣全勤,看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資\n100951\t115577\t流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病\n116377\t137105\t所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水\n137705\t154620\t如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條\n158764\t170102\t還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個91年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢\n171482\t195469\t部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但\n196169\t204412\t公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性\n221442\t236844\t可以嗎?各位知道人家說,生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒說話,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女,我是覺得是不是能夠\n238065\t264686\t照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好像是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月沒薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦\n265486\t281793\t報告委員這我看我們會來跟主席我覺得應該有大大的改進的可能性了那我們也跟因為這個裁員我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦你找得到錢喔我們不反對我們只要有心的流產價\n285665\t301197\t這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了\n307762\t326275\t但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則司長跟部長你看一下你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的\n326855\t336320\t其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了只要像事辦計畫我們事辦計畫建議啦我們就是建議韓國這個部分啦\n345305\t358111\t不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗\n368436\t373703\t然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦\n380223\t408017\t這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說瞭解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要瞭解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假\n408777\t430556\t各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲\n435680\t460077\t其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題\n461238\t482718\t如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的\n483018\t498044\t三歲、六歲就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有薪清職假我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持\n499685\t505291\t但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在\n516121\t533492\t所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦\n534292\t553684\t然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考\n554665\t569236\t第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的事辦計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明\n570396\t597265\t像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你\n599625\t602751\t這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題\n604113\t630165\t你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔\n630926\t632932\t托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」\n639269\t667664\t所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每一天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養\n669249\t684539\t讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的角色。讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨。」\n685419\t699685\t所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息、陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題\n700845\t712994\t爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親職互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講這個育嬰談嫁談性話是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他\n722059\t729922\t要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假\n740085\t759020\t實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個\n762142\t773947\t及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性\n777909\t791994\t這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要\n793834\t815067\t部長,這個事辦計畫,現在事辦的家屬,你不要看起來全部都輪班排班,一種最困難的,你是說包含而已,不是以他們為主,那我們就希望說,你應該要去好好的宣導,然後告訴我們,要參與事辦的企業,我們到時候一定會檢視嘛,參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊?\n819290\t826213\t希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。流產價有心,有心流產價要承諾給我們\n836889\t850250\t好,我們會來把那個經費的部分,然後來規劃。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。現在處理臨時提案,總共有10案,請一併宣讀。林淑芬委員臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工\n","txt":"主席,各位大家好,事實上是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。\n部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停職工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。\n那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的\n三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第9條未滿三個月的流產\n如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的不可以扣全勤,看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資\n流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病\n所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水\n如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條\n還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個91年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢\n部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但\n公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性\n可以嗎?各位知道人家說,生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒說話,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女,我是覺得是不是能夠\n照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好像是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月沒薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦\n報告委員這我看我們會來跟主席我覺得應該有大大的改進的可能性了那我們也跟因為這個裁員我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦你找得到錢喔我們不反對我們只要有心的流產價\n這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了\n但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則司長跟部長你看一下你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的\n其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了只要像事辦計畫我們事辦計畫建議啦我們就是建議韓國這個部分啦\n不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗\n然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦\n這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說瞭解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要瞭解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假\n各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲\n其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題\n如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的\n三歲、六歲就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有薪清職假我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持\n但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在\n所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦\n然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考\n第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的事辦計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明\n像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你\n這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題\n你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔\n托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」\n所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每一天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養\n讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的角色。讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨。」\n所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息、陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題\n爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親職互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講這個育嬰談嫁談性話是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他\n要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假\n實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個\n及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性\n這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要\n部長,這個事辦計畫,現在事辦的家屬,你不要看起來全部都輪班排班,一種最困難的,你是說包含而已,不是以他們為主,那我們就希望說,你應該要去好好的宣導,然後告訴我們,要參與事辦的企業,我們到時候一定會檢視嘛,參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊?\n希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。流產價有心,有心流產價要承諾給我們\n好,我們會來把那個經費的部分,然後來規劃。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。現在處理臨時提案,總共有10案,請一併宣讀。林淑芬委員臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.414 --> 00:13.439\n主席,各位大家好,事實上是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。\n\n00:18.712 --> 00:35.813\n部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停職工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。\n\n00:36.454 --> 01:00.330\n那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的\n\n01:07.034 --> 01:18.342\n三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第9條未滿三個月的流產\n\n01:24.146 --> 01:38.690\n如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的不可以扣全勤,看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資\n\n01:40.951 --> 01:55.577\n流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病\n\n01:56.377 --> 02:17.105\n所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水\n\n02:17.705 --> 02:34.620\n如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條\n\n02:38.764 --> 02:50.102\n還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個91年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢\n\n02:51.482 --> 03:15.469\n部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但\n\n03:16.169 --> 03:24.412\n公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性\n\n03:41.442 --> 03:56.844\n可以嗎?各位知道人家說,生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒說話,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女,我是覺得是不是能夠\n\n03:58.065 --> 04:24.686\n照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好像是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月沒薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦\n\n04:25.486 --> 04:41.793\n報告委員這我看我們會來跟主席我覺得應該有大大的改進的可能性了那我們也跟因為這個裁員我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦你找得到錢喔我們不反對我們只要有心的流產價\n\n04:45.665 --> 05:01.197\n這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了\n\n05:07.762 --> 05:26.275\n但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則司長跟部長你看一下你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的\n\n05:26.855 --> 05:36.320\n其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了只要像事辦計畫我們事辦計畫建議啦我們就是建議韓國這個部分啦\n\n05:45.305 --> 05:58.111\n不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗\n\n06:08.436 --> 06:13.703\n然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦\n\n06:20.223 --> 06:48.017\n這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說瞭解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要瞭解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假\n\n06:48.777 --> 07:10.556\n各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲\n\n07:15.680 --> 07:40.077\n其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題\n\n07:41.238 --> 08:02.718\n如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的\n\n08:03.018 --> 08:18.044\n三歲、六歲就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有薪清職假我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持\n\n08:19.685 --> 08:25.291\n但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在\n\n08:36.121 --> 08:53.492\n所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦\n\n08:54.292 --> 09:13.684\n然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考\n\n09:14.665 --> 09:29.236\n第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的事辦計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明\n\n09:30.396 --> 09:57.265\n像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你\n\n09:59.625 --> 10:02.751\n這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題\n\n10:04.113 --> 10:30.165\n你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔\n\n10:30.926 --> 10:32.932\n托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」\n\n10:39.269 --> 11:07.664\n所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每一天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養\n\n11:09.249 --> 11:24.539\n讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的角色。讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨。」\n\n11:25.419 --> 11:39.685\n所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息、陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題\n\n11:40.845 --> 11:52.994\n爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親職互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講這個育嬰談嫁談性話是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他\n\n12:02.059 --> 12:09.922\n要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假\n\n12:20.085 --> 12:39.020\n實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個\n\n12:42.142 --> 12:53.947\n及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性\n\n12:57.909 --> 13:11.994\n這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要\n\n13:13.834 --> 13:35.067\n部長,這個事辦計畫,現在事辦的家屬,你不要看起來全部都輪班排班,一種最困難的,你是說包含而已,不是以他們為主,那我們就希望說,你應該要去好好的宣導,然後告訴我們,要參與事辦的企業,我們到時候一定會檢視嘛,參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊?\n\n13:39.290 --> 13:46.213\n希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。流產價有心,有心流產價要承諾給我們\n\n13:56.889 --> 14:10.250\n好,我們會來把那個經費的部分,然後來規劃。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。現在處理臨時提案,總共有10案,請一併宣讀。林淑芬委員臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.414,"end":13.439,"text":"主席,各位大家好,事實上是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。"},{"start":18.712,"end":35.813,"text":"部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停職工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。"},{"start":36.454,"end":60.33,"text":"那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的"},{"start":67.034,"end":78.342,"text":"三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年5月1號發布了勞工請假規則第9條未滿三個月的流產"},{"start":84.146,"end":98.69,"text":"如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的不可以扣全勤,看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資"},{"start":100.951,"end":115.577,"text":"流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病"},{"start":116.377,"end":137.105,"text":"所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水"},{"start":137.705,"end":154.62,"text":"如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條"},{"start":158.764,"end":170.102,"text":"還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個91年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢"},{"start":171.482,"end":195.469,"text":"部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但"},{"start":196.169,"end":204.412,"text":"公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性"},{"start":221.442,"end":236.844,"text":"可以嗎?各位知道人家說,生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒說話,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女,我是覺得是不是能夠"},{"start":238.065,"end":264.686,"text":"照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好像是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月沒薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦"},{"start":265.486,"end":281.793,"text":"報告委員這我看我們會來跟主席我覺得應該有大大的改進的可能性了那我們也跟因為這個裁員我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦你找得到錢喔我們不反對我們只要有心的流產價"},{"start":285.665,"end":301.197,"text":"這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了"},{"start":307.762,"end":326.275,"text":"但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則司長跟部長你看一下你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的"},{"start":326.855,"end":336.32,"text":"其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了只要像事辦計畫我們事辦計畫建議啦我們就是建議韓國這個部分啦"},{"start":345.305,"end":358.111,"text":"不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗"},{"start":368.436,"end":373.703,"text":"然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦"},{"start":380.223,"end":408.017,"text":"這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說瞭解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要瞭解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假"},{"start":408.777,"end":430.556,"text":"各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲"},{"start":435.68,"end":460.077,"text":"其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題"},{"start":461.238,"end":482.718,"text":"如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的"},{"start":483.018,"end":498.044,"text":"三歲、六歲就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有薪清職假我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持"},{"start":499.685,"end":505.291,"text":"但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在"},{"start":516.121,"end":533.492,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦"},{"start":534.292,"end":553.684,"text":"然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考"},{"start":554.665,"end":569.236,"text":"第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的事辦計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明"},{"start":570.396,"end":597.265,"text":"像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你"},{"start":599.625,"end":602.751,"text":"這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題"},{"start":604.113,"end":630.165,"text":"你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔"},{"start":630.926,"end":632.932,"text":"托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」"},{"start":639.269,"end":667.664,"text":"所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每一天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養"},{"start":669.249,"end":684.539,"text":"讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的角色。讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨。」"},{"start":685.419,"end":699.685,"text":"所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息、陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題"},{"start":700.845,"end":712.994,"text":"爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親職互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講這個育嬰談嫁談性話是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他"},{"start":722.059,"end":729.922,"text":"要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假"},{"start":740.085,"end":759.02,"text":"實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個"},{"start":762.142,"end":773.947,"text":"及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性"},{"start":777.909,"end":791.994,"text":"這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要"},{"start":793.834,"end":815.067,"text":"部長,這個事辦計畫,現在事辦的家屬,你不要看起來全部都輪班排班,一種最困難的,你是說包含而已,不是以他們為主,那我們就希望說,你應該要去好好的宣導,然後告訴我們,要參與事辦的企業,我們到時候一定會檢視嘛,參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊?"},{"start":819.29,"end":826.213,"text":"希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石。流產價有心,有心流產價要承諾給我們"},{"start":836.889,"end":850.25,"text":"好,我們會來把那個經費的部分,然後來規劃。好,謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。現在處理臨時提案,總共有10案,請一併宣讀。林淑芬委員臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工"}]}}}}