{"id":150151,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150151","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f19256ce5b2cb7d4a6841a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a6938357d8e0506d445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"11:31:32 - 11:40:21","影片長度":"00:08:49","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":529,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:40:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:31:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":693,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（11時31分）謝謝主席。有請唐部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：唐部長，今天當然最主要是討論電子簽章法，經過了大概20年，終於提出了符合時代的一些修正條文，我今天聽了一個早上，包括我們也看到民間的部分，大家基本上都是支持的，要跟得上時代，而且不是要跟得上，是已經跟不上了，現在已經跟不上了！在民間以電子類去做一個不管是證明或者憑證，大概都已經行之有年了，前幾天看到ETF，這個什麼新時代的……哇！大家匯款幾十萬、幾百萬，直接手機操作一下就匯出去了。","我發覺現在一般的國民對於使用這樣的科技產品，當然也許有年紀上面的差異，但我覺得普遍都滿接受的，很多的部分包括過去我們覺得錢要怎麼樣、要注意，我覺得他們現在已經經常在使用這個部分，所以我希望政府能夠跟上。很多委員都有談到這個部分，到底是幾個機關排除適用，到現在說法好像也不太一樣，有委員說有26個中央機關，但我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關，你們給我的簡報跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央機關加7個地方政府，但是其實這個數字好像不是討論……"],["唐部長鳳：17加7是24沒錯。"],["魯委員明哲：對，大概是這24個中央、地方加起來，其實我的關鍵不是24個機關，而是20年了，要做這個法令的人其實已經有20年可以去微調、改變，它有20年的時間，它也體驗到外部的社會、科技的進步、手機的使用，以及像銀行提款，很多比這些政府部門一紙申請租用的公文還要嚴重千百倍的事，都早就進入類似電子簽章或是用電子的模式，可是這些機關，其實我是覺得他們很多就是不想，當然，我們也親自打電話去問了，有一些我希望署長要明確地去清查。譬如我們問了國教署，你們說大概有五項還沒有辦法用電子簽章，署長說很委屈啊，他們統統都可以啦！工程會說他們也都可以啦！這等等的部分，我覺得也不是重點，要再精確一點！"],["唐部長鳳：工程會沒有在上面。"],["魯委員明哲：我希望針對中央跟地方政府這整個部分要精確一點！剛剛我也聽到部長有說，我們也打電話去問了一下。第一個，有些認為對於它的機密敏感文件，它還是會擔心。第二個，因為它的資料非常複雜，是非常厚的一本，在實務上覺得好像也有困難，這是中央、地方政府我們問到的部分。第三個，我也聽到很明顯的數位落差，數位落差包括了它在機器設備上面這種落差；其次，我是講真的，這個人的部分，數位落差也滿嚴重的，你知道嗎？他有點恐懼、他有點怕，他們能不用就不用，有時候不是因為你做到局長了，你的數位能力就很厲害，對不對？尤其是在地方、中央政府，我們普遍問到的都是這種情況，所以我想部長你說一下好了，除了這三個原因，你目前看到最大的原因的排序大概是怎麼樣？"],["唐部長鳳：其實一句話來講，就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同供應契約提供的解決方案？只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒；還不知道或者目前它的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的，它一想到它還要開一個採購案、還要建置系統等等，就會告訴我們期程要拖比較長。"],["魯委員明哲：我現在就請教你，這個落日條款確定要3年嗎？我們也在討論這個問題，其實你不是只給他們3年，你已經給它20年了，你已經有給20年，除非它自己不管，那是它的事情，如果它沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣，坦白講，我也覺得是它跟不上時代，我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了，不管是數位經濟、數位方面的推動，而且它的認證、憑證可應用的，包括我們認為這是高風險的事情，他們事實上很多的部分，包括幾百萬的規模，都用電子來作一個證明的方向，所以我是覺得這個部分，我們最後討論都希望是1年，落日條款再給它1年，你覺得機會大不大？"],["唐部長鳳：剛剛談到的是採購期程，採購期程當然包含預算編列，特別是公共建設，其實光先期作業大概1年就快過去了，所以大部分的機關都是說可能至少要2年左右才能把整個採購期程做完。立法期程也是相同的，當然理論上是提了馬上可以送到立法院，但是它能不能在1年之內就三讀，這是另外一個問題。"],["魯委員明哲：好，這個部分委員也提過了，我希望很多數位落差的部分，看系統怎麼樣去整合，怎麼樣去讓要用的人也覺得說……不管到最後期間是多久，不是讓他去拖的，你知道嗎？如果沒有學習，沒有跟上，即使你再給他3年，再給他5年，他還是跟不上，所以我覺得中間的push、推動是非常重要的，而且必須要有一個明確的進度，如果這個法規通過了，針對這些不管各種方式都沒有辦法跟上或者它已經公告不要用的這些單位，你們有沒有一個明確的計畫，讓它逐步跟上？"],["唐部長鳳：有，我們其實在去年就提了，剛剛提到4支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關，它不用自行建置，來用我們的系統就可以，只是因為每個機關的需求是持續在出現，所以我們也會儘快地來盤點各個機關的需求，看有沒有我們漏掉的，還沒有提公共建設的，我們就趕快在接下來的預算會期幫他們提出。"],["魯委員明哲：好，最後我要特別提醒一下，因為大家都期待電子簽章法，特別提了非常多次，如果電子簽章法經過修法、上路之後，你預計對於詐騙防詐這個部分的效果應該非常有效，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：對，特別是冒充名人的投資廣告。"],["魯委員明哲：包括冒充名人，因為他有自己的簽章嘛。"],["唐部長鳳：對。"],["魯委員明哲：現在主要、最熱門的一些社群平臺，我不知道你有沒有進行這部分的溝通。"],["唐部長鳳：有。"],["魯委員明哲：什麼時候明確？像Meta、Google，你們是不是已經溝通了？"],["唐部長鳳：左邊這三個有落地的，我們都有溝通了。"],["魯委員明哲：都OK了嘛！那其他的部分，現在會有一個狀況，如果你沒有辦法公平地讓主要的社群平臺一起上路，有可能發生一個最糟糕的狀況，就是劣幣逐良幣，大家一起抓著這一塊，市場是一個客戶，要登廣告的要付費，大家抓著這一塊，就他客戶的一個角度來看，你要我放手？可以，就按照這個制度來，但其他業者不放，變成很多奇奇怪怪的狀況，搞不好這些客戶都會到哪裡去了，原來其他業者可以拖、可以不配合、可以用原來的方式、還不用電子簽章，所以我希望在臺灣的這些主要的平臺，這個上路的時間真的要好好去溝通，一定要至少七到八成的社群平臺都能夠一起上路，才能夠非常齊步地向前走。這個部分你有沒有信心？"],["唐部長鳳：我想左邊這三個有落地的，在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不只七、八成，所以我想這個部分一定是先處理。那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話，未來我們跟內政部會有一個打詐的專法，內政部應該會儘快送到大院，那個三讀通過的話，我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的法律義務。"],["魯委員明哲：好，我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後，對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的落實。謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝，魯委員發言完畢。","現在請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","現在請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150151","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150151","tool":"pyannote","id":"150151-pyannote"},"job_id":"JqNFyzmXE5cSrf3D","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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00:01:44,006\n那到底幾個機關到現在好像也不太一樣我們委員說有26個中央機關那我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關那你們簡報給我跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央的機關加這個7個地方政府但是這個其實數字好像不是討論的17加7是24那一座嗎對大概這24個\n\n6\n00:01:46,207 --> 00:02:13,304\n中央地方一起加起來其實我的關鍵不是24個機關而是20年了而是這個法令其實要做的人已經有20年可以去微調改變他有20年的時間也體驗到外部的社會科技的進步手機的使用跟銀行很多比他這些政府部門一直申請租用的公文\n\n7\n00:02:14,646 --> 00:02:36,284\n嚴重度千百倍的不管提款都早就進入類似電子簽章或者用電子的模式的時候可是這些的機關他很多其實我是覺得就是不想那當然我們也親自打電話去問了那有一些我希望這個署長這邊也明確要去清查啦\n\n8\n00:03:22,446 --> 00:03:38,927\nadequ�三個我也聽到很明顯的數位落差啦數位落差包括了他在機器設備上面這一種落差第二個我是講真的耶這個人的部分有數位落差也蠻嚴重的你知道嗎\n\n9\n00:03:39,608 --> 00:04:01,385\n他有點恐懼他有點怕他們能不用就不用有時候不是因為你做到局長了你的數位就很厲害嘛對不對所以在地方中央政府我們普遍問到都這種情況所以我想這個部長你說一下好了除了這三個原因你目前看到最大的原因大概排序是怎麼樣\n\n10\n00:04:02,544 --> 00:04:22,938\n其實一句話來講就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同公益契約提供的一個解決方案只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒還不知道或者目前他的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的他一想到說他還要開一個採購案還要建置系統等等那就會告訴我們說期程要拖比較長\n\n11\n00:04:25,768 --> 00:04:41,254\n那我現在就請教你喔這個漏日條款確定要3年嗎?我們也在討論這個問題喔其實你不是要給他們3年啦你已經給他20年了你已經有20年除非他自己不管那是他的事情\n\n12\n00:04:41,934 --> 00:05:07,217\n如果他沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣坦白講我也覺得是他跟不上時代那我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了不管是數位經濟數位方面的一個推動而且他的認證、憑證可用的包括我們認為說這高風險啊他們事實上幾百萬包括很多的部分都用電子來做一個證明的一個方向\n\n13\n00:05:38,806 --> 00:06:07,045\n我希望說這個部分我已經也提過了很多的有數位落差的部分系統怎麼樣去整合怎麼樣去真的是讓要用的人也覺得說你不管到這個期間是多久不是讓他去拖的你知道嗎如果沒有學習沒有跟上其實你再給他3年再給他5年他還是跟不上所以我覺得在中間是一個非常重要的push推動而且必須要有明確的一個進度如果這個法規通過了\n\n14\n00:06:08,806 --> 00:06:30,133\n針對於這些不管各種方式沒有辦法跟上或者已經他公告他不要用這些單位你們有沒有一個明確的計畫讓他逐步跟上有我們其實在去年就提了剛剛提到四支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關他不用自行建置來用我們的系統就可以\n\n15\n00:06:30,473 --> 00:06:42,173\n只是說因為每個機關的需求他是持續在出現所以我們也會盡快的來盤點各個機關他的需求看有沒有我們漏掉的還沒有提公共建設的那我們就趕快在接下來預算會期來幫他們提出\n\n16\n00:06:43,697 --> 00:07:06,728\n好,那最後我要特別提醒一下因為大家都期待電子簽章法特別提了非常多次如果電子簽章法經過修法上路之後你預計有效的能夠對於詐騙防詐這個部分應該非常有效特別冒充投資的民營廣告冒充名人因為他要有自己的簽章\n\n17\n00:07:07,708 --> 00:07:21,585\n那我想這樣的因為現在主要最熱門的一些社群的平台我知道你有沒有部分的一個溝通啊有什麼時候明確像Meta、Google你們是不是已經溝通左邊這三個有落地的我們都OK了嗎\n\n18\n00:07:22,927 --> 00:07:50,222\n那其他的這個部分現在會有個狀況如果你沒有辦法公平讓主要的社群平台一起上路的時候有可能發生一個最糟糕的一個現況就是劣幣足良幣大家一起抓的市場是一個客戶要登廣告的要付費大家抓的這一塊就他客戶的一個角度你要我放手可以按照這個制度來他不放\n\n19\n00:07:51,830 --> 00:08:20,696\n變成很多奇奇怪怪的搞不好這些客戶都到哪裡去了原來他可以拖他可以不配合他可以用原來的方式他還不用電子簽章所以我是希望在台灣這些主要的平台真的這個時間要好好去溝通大家一定主要至少七到八成這社群平台都能夠一起上路才能夠非常齊步的向前走這個部分你有沒有信心啊\n\n20\n00:08:20,876 --> 00:08:48,464\n對,我想左邊這三個有落地的在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不止七八成啦所以我想這個部分一定是先處理那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話未來我們跟內政部會有個打詐的專法那內政部應該會盡快送到大院那個三度通過的話我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的這個法律義務好,我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的能夠落實謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5359\t6365\t謝謝主席,有請唐部長請部長\n12153\t34931\t委員長,今天當然是這個最主要的電子簽章法。經過了大概20年,終於提出了符合時代的一些修正條文。我今天看了一個早上,包括我們也看到民間的整個部分,大家基本上都是支持嘛,要跟得上時代,而且不是跟得上,已經跟不上了。\n35411\t56584\t現在已經跟不上了就民間在用不管是電子類去做一個證明或者憑證那個大概已經行之有年了因為前幾天看到ETF這個什麼新時代的哇大家匯款幾十萬幾百萬直接你知道手機操作一下就匯出去了我發覺現在一般的國民\n57244\t57264\t委員會復議\n78456\t104006\t那到底幾個機關到現在好像也不太一樣我們委員說有26個中央機關那我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關那你們簡報給我跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央的機關加這個7個地方政府但是這個其實數字好像不是討論的17加7是24那一座嗎對大概這24個\n106207\t133304\t中央地方一起加起來其實我的關鍵不是24個機關而是20年了而是這個法令其實要做的人已經有20年可以去微調改變他有20年的時間也體驗到外部的社會科技的進步手機的使用跟銀行很多比他這些政府部門一直申請租用的公文\n134646\t156284\t嚴重度千百倍的不管提款都早就進入類似電子簽章或者用電子的模式的時候可是這些的機關他很多其實我是覺得就是不想那當然我們也親自打電話去問了那有一些我希望這個署長這邊也明確要去清查啦\n156544\t172346\t﹖﹖﹖\n172346\t202346\t​​​​​​​​​​\n202446\t218927\tadequ�三個我也聽到很明顯的數位落差啦數位落差包括了他在機器設備上面這一種落差第二個我是講真的耶這個人的部分有數位落差也蠻嚴重的你知道嗎\n219608\t241385\t他有點恐懼他有點怕他們能不用就不用有時候不是因為你做到局長了你的數位就很厲害嘛對不對所以在地方中央政府我們普遍問到都這種情況所以我想這個部長你說一下好了除了這三個原因你目前看到最大的原因大概排序是怎麼樣\n242544\t262938\t其實一句話來講就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同公益契約提供的一個解決方案只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒還不知道或者目前他的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的他一想到說他還要開一個採購案還要建置系統等等那就會告訴我們說期程要拖比較長\n265768\t281254\t那我現在就請教你喔這個漏日條款確定要3年嗎?我們也在討論這個問題喔其實你不是要給他們3年啦你已經給他20年了你已經有20年除非他自己不管那是他的事情\n281934\t307217\t如果他沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣坦白講我也覺得是他跟不上時代那我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了不管是數位經濟數位方面的一個推動而且他的認證、憑證可用的包括我們認為說這高風險啊他們事實上幾百萬包括很多的部分都用電子來做一個證明的一個方向\n307637\t337637\t﹏﹏﹏\n337637\t337961\t響鐘。\n338806\t367045\t我希望說這個部分我已經也提過了很多的有數位落差的部分系統怎麼樣去整合怎麼樣去真的是讓要用的人也覺得說你不管到這個期間是多久不是讓他去拖的你知道嗎如果沒有學習沒有跟上其實你再給他3年再給他5年他還是跟不上所以我覺得在中間是一個非常重要的push推動而且必須要有明確的一個進度如果這個法規通過了\n368806\t390133\t針對於這些不管各種方式沒有辦法跟上或者已經他公告他不要用這些單位你們有沒有一個明確的計畫讓他逐步跟上有我們其實在去年就提了剛剛提到四支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關他不用自行建置來用我們的系統就可以\n390473\t402173\t只是說因為每個機關的需求他是持續在出現所以我們也會盡快的來盤點各個機關他的需求看有沒有我們漏掉的還沒有提公共建設的那我們就趕快在接下來預算會期來幫他們提出\n403697\t426728\t好,那最後我要特別提醒一下因為大家都期待電子簽章法特別提了非常多次如果電子簽章法經過修法上路之後你預計有效的能夠對於詐騙防詐這個部分應該非常有效特別冒充投資的民營廣告冒充名人因為他要有自己的簽章\n427708\t441585\t那我想這樣的因為現在主要最熱門的一些社群的平台我知道你有沒有部分的一個溝通啊 有什麼時候明確像Meta、Google你們是不是已經溝通 左邊這三個有落地的我們都OK了嗎\n442927\t470222\t那其他的這個部分現在會有個狀況如果你沒有辦法公平讓主要的社群平台一起上路的時候有可能發生一個最糟糕的一個現況就是劣幣足良幣大家一起抓的市場是一個客戶要登廣告的要付費大家抓的這一塊就他客戶的一個角度你要我放手可以按照這個制度來他不放\n471830\t500696\t變成很多奇奇怪怪的搞不好這些客戶都到哪裡去了原來他可以拖他可以不配合他可以用原來的方式他還不用電子簽章所以我是希望在台灣這些主要的平台真的這個時間要好好去溝通大家一定主要至少七到八成這社群平台都能夠一起上路才能夠非常齊步的向前走這個部分你有沒有信心啊\n500876\t528464\t對,我想左邊這三個有落地的在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不止七八成啦所以我想這個部分一定是先處理那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話未來我們跟內政部會有個打詐的專法那內政部應該會盡快送到大院那個三度通過的話我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的這個法律義務好,我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的能夠落實謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請唐部長請部長\n委員長,今天當然是這個最主要的電子簽章法。經過了大概20年,終於提出了符合時代的一些修正條文。我今天看了一個早上,包括我們也看到民間的整個部分,大家基本上都是支持嘛,要跟得上時代,而且不是跟得上,已經跟不上了。\n現在已經跟不上了就民間在用不管是電子類去做一個證明或者憑證那個大概已經行之有年了因為前幾天看到ETF這個什麼新時代的哇大家匯款幾十萬幾百萬直接你知道手機操作一下就匯出去了我發覺現在一般的國民\n委員會復議\n那到底幾個機關到現在好像也不太一樣我們委員說有26個中央機關那我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關那你們簡報給我跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央的機關加這個7個地方政府但是這個其實數字好像不是討論的17加7是24那一座嗎對大概這24個\n中央地方一起加起來其實我的關鍵不是24個機關而是20年了而是這個法令其實要做的人已經有20年可以去微調改變他有20年的時間也體驗到外部的社會科技的進步手機的使用跟銀行很多比他這些政府部門一直申請租用的公文\n嚴重度千百倍的不管提款都早就進入類似電子簽章或者用電子的模式的時候可是這些的機關他很多其實我是覺得就是不想那當然我們也親自打電話去問了那有一些我希望這個署長這邊也明確要去清查啦\n﹖﹖﹖\n​​​​​​​​​​\nadequ�三個我也聽到很明顯的數位落差啦數位落差包括了他在機器設備上面這一種落差第二個我是講真的耶這個人的部分有數位落差也蠻嚴重的你知道嗎\n他有點恐懼他有點怕他們能不用就不用有時候不是因為你做到局長了你的數位就很厲害嘛對不對所以在地方中央政府我們普遍問到都這種情況所以我想這個部長你說一下好了除了這三個原因你目前看到最大的原因大概排序是怎麼樣\n其實一句話來講就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同公益契約提供的一個解決方案只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒還不知道或者目前他的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的他一想到說他還要開一個採購案還要建置系統等等那就會告訴我們說期程要拖比較長\n那我現在就請教你喔這個漏日條款確定要3年嗎?我們也在討論這個問題喔其實你不是要給他們3年啦你已經給他20年了你已經有20年除非他自己不管那是他的事情\n如果他沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣坦白講我也覺得是他跟不上時代那我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了不管是數位經濟數位方面的一個推動而且他的認證、憑證可用的包括我們認為說這高風險啊他們事實上幾百萬包括很多的部分都用電子來做一個證明的一個方向\n﹏﹏﹏\n響鐘。\n我希望說這個部分我已經也提過了很多的有數位落差的部分系統怎麼樣去整合怎麼樣去真的是讓要用的人也覺得說你不管到這個期間是多久不是讓他去拖的你知道嗎如果沒有學習沒有跟上其實你再給他3年再給他5年他還是跟不上所以我覺得在中間是一個非常重要的push推動而且必須要有明確的一個進度如果這個法規通過了\n針對於這些不管各種方式沒有辦法跟上或者已經他公告他不要用這些單位你們有沒有一個明確的計畫讓他逐步跟上有我們其實在去年就提了剛剛提到四支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關他不用自行建置來用我們的系統就可以\n只是說因為每個機關的需求他是持續在出現所以我們也會盡快的來盤點各個機關他的需求看有沒有我們漏掉的還沒有提公共建設的那我們就趕快在接下來預算會期來幫他們提出\n好,那最後我要特別提醒一下因為大家都期待電子簽章法特別提了非常多次如果電子簽章法經過修法上路之後你預計有效的能夠對於詐騙防詐這個部分應該非常有效特別冒充投資的民營廣告冒充名人因為他要有自己的簽章\n那我想這樣的因為現在主要最熱門的一些社群的平台我知道你有沒有部分的一個溝通啊 有什麼時候明確像Meta、Google你們是不是已經溝通 左邊這三個有落地的我們都OK了嗎\n那其他的這個部分現在會有個狀況如果你沒有辦法公平讓主要的社群平台一起上路的時候有可能發生一個最糟糕的一個現況就是劣幣足良幣大家一起抓的市場是一個客戶要登廣告的要付費大家抓的這一塊就他客戶的一個角度你要我放手可以按照這個制度來他不放\n變成很多奇奇怪怪的搞不好這些客戶都到哪裡去了原來他可以拖他可以不配合他可以用原來的方式他還不用電子簽章所以我是希望在台灣這些主要的平台真的這個時間要好好去溝通大家一定主要至少七到八成這社群平台都能夠一起上路才能夠非常齊步的向前走這個部分你有沒有信心啊\n對,我想左邊這三個有落地的在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不止七八成啦所以我想這個部分一定是先處理那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話未來我們跟內政部會有個打詐的專法那內政部應該會盡快送到大院那個三度通過的話我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的這個法律義務好,我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的能夠落實謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.359 --> 00:06.365\n謝謝主席,有請唐部長請部長\n\n00:12.153 --> 00:34.931\n委員長,今天當然是這個最主要的電子簽章法。經過了大概20年,終於提出了符合時代的一些修正條文。我今天看了一個早上,包括我們也看到民間的整個部分,大家基本上都是支持嘛,要跟得上時代,而且不是跟得上,已經跟不上了。\n\n00:35.411 --> 00:56.584\n現在已經跟不上了就民間在用不管是電子類去做一個證明或者憑證那個大概已經行之有年了因為前幾天看到ETF這個什麼新時代的哇大家匯款幾十萬幾百萬直接你知道手機操作一下就匯出去了我發覺現在一般的國民\n\n00:57.244 --> 00:57.264\n委員會復議\n\n01:18.456 --> 01:44.006\n那到底幾個機關到現在好像也不太一樣我們委員說有26個中央機關那我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關那你們簡報給我跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央的機關加這個7個地方政府但是這個其實數字好像不是討論的17加7是24那一座嗎對大概這24個\n\n01:46.207 --> 02:13.304\n中央地方一起加起來其實我的關鍵不是24個機關而是20年了而是這個法令其實要做的人已經有20年可以去微調改變他有20年的時間也體驗到外部的社會科技的進步手機的使用跟銀行很多比他這些政府部門一直申請租用的公文\n\n02:14.646 --> 02:36.284\n嚴重度千百倍的不管提款都早就進入類似電子簽章或者用電子的模式的時候可是這些的機關他很多其實我是覺得就是不想那當然我們也親自打電話去問了那有一些我希望這個署長這邊也明確要去清查啦\n\n03:22.446 --> 03:38.927\nadequ�三個我也聽到很明顯的數位落差啦數位落差包括了他在機器設備上面這一種落差第二個我是講真的耶這個人的部分有數位落差也蠻嚴重的你知道嗎\n\n03:39.608 --> 04:01.385\n他有點恐懼他有點怕他們能不用就不用有時候不是因為你做到局長了你的數位就很厲害嘛對不對所以在地方中央政府我們普遍問到都這種情況所以我想這個部長你說一下好了除了這三個原因你目前看到最大的原因大概排序是怎麼樣\n\n04:02.544 --> 04:22.938\n其實一句話來講就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同公益契約提供的一個解決方案只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒還不知道或者目前他的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的他一想到說他還要開一個採購案還要建置系統等等那就會告訴我們說期程要拖比較長\n\n04:25.768 --> 04:41.254\n那我現在就請教你喔這個漏日條款確定要3年嗎?我們也在討論這個問題喔其實你不是要給他們3年啦你已經給他20年了你已經有20年除非他自己不管那是他的事情\n\n04:41.934 --> 05:07.217\n如果他沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣坦白講我也覺得是他跟不上時代那我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了不管是數位經濟數位方面的一個推動而且他的認證、憑證可用的包括我們認為說這高風險啊他們事實上幾百萬包括很多的部分都用電子來做一個證明的一個方向\n\n05:38.806 --> 06:07.045\n我希望說這個部分我已經也提過了很多的有數位落差的部分系統怎麼樣去整合怎麼樣去真的是讓要用的人也覺得說你不管到這個期間是多久不是讓他去拖的你知道嗎如果沒有學習沒有跟上其實你再給他3年再給他5年他還是跟不上所以我覺得在中間是一個非常重要的push推動而且必須要有明確的一個進度如果這個法規通過了\n\n06:08.806 --> 06:30.133\n針對於這些不管各種方式沒有辦法跟上或者已經他公告他不要用這些單位你們有沒有一個明確的計畫讓他逐步跟上有我們其實在去年就提了剛剛提到四支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關他不用自行建置來用我們的系統就可以\n\n06:30.473 --> 06:42.173\n只是說因為每個機關的需求他是持續在出現所以我們也會盡快的來盤點各個機關他的需求看有沒有我們漏掉的還沒有提公共建設的那我們就趕快在接下來預算會期來幫他們提出\n\n06:43.697 --> 07:06.728\n好,那最後我要特別提醒一下因為大家都期待電子簽章法特別提了非常多次如果電子簽章法經過修法上路之後你預計有效的能夠對於詐騙防詐這個部分應該非常有效特別冒充投資的民營廣告冒充名人因為他要有自己的簽章\n\n07:07.708 --> 07:21.585\n那我想這樣的因為現在主要最熱門的一些社群的平台我知道你有沒有部分的一個溝通啊有什麼時候明確像Meta、Google你們是不是已經溝通左邊這三個有落地的我們都OK了嗎\n\n07:22.927 --> 07:50.222\n那其他的這個部分現在會有個狀況如果你沒有辦法公平讓主要的社群平台一起上路的時候有可能發生一個最糟糕的一個現況就是劣幣足良幣大家一起抓的市場是一個客戶要登廣告的要付費大家抓的這一塊就他客戶的一個角度你要我放手可以按照這個制度來他不放\n\n07:51.830 --> 08:20.696\n變成很多奇奇怪怪的搞不好這些客戶都到哪裡去了原來他可以拖他可以不配合他可以用原來的方式他還不用電子簽章所以我是希望在台灣這些主要的平台真的這個時間要好好去溝通大家一定主要至少七到八成這社群平台都能夠一起上路才能夠非常齊步的向前走這個部分你有沒有信心啊\n\n08:20.876 --> 08:48.464\n對,我想左邊這三個有落地的在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不止七八成啦所以我想這個部分一定是先處理那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話未來我們跟內政部會有個打詐的專法那內政部應該會盡快送到大院那個三度通過的話我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的這個法律義務好,我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的能夠落實謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.359,"end":6.365,"text":"謝謝主席,有請唐部長請部長"},{"start":12.153,"end":34.931,"text":"委員長,今天當然是這個最主要的電子簽章法。經過了大概20年,終於提出了符合時代的一些修正條文。我今天看了一個早上,包括我們也看到民間的整個部分,大家基本上都是支持嘛,要跟得上時代,而且不是跟得上,已經跟不上了。"},{"start":35.411,"end":56.584,"text":"現在已經跟不上了就民間在用不管是電子類去做一個證明或者憑證那個大概已經行之有年了因為前幾天看到ETF這個什麼新時代的哇大家匯款幾十萬幾百萬直接你知道手機操作一下就匯出去了我發覺現在一般的國民"},{"start":57.244,"end":57.264,"text":"委員會復議"},{"start":78.456,"end":104.006,"text":"那到底幾個機關到現在好像也不太一樣我們委員說有26個中央機關那我們有聽到署長說是24個中央機關那你們簡報給我跟剛剛好幾位委員用的是17個中央的機關加這個7個地方政府但是這個其實數字好像不是討論的17加7是24那一座嗎對大概這24個"},{"start":106.207,"end":133.304,"text":"中央地方一起加起來其實我的關鍵不是24個機關而是20年了而是這個法令其實要做的人已經有20年可以去微調改變他有20年的時間也體驗到外部的社會科技的進步手機的使用跟銀行很多比他這些政府部門一直申請租用的公文"},{"start":134.646,"end":156.284,"text":"嚴重度千百倍的不管提款都早就進入類似電子簽章或者用電子的模式的時候可是這些的機關他很多其實我是覺得就是不想那當然我們也親自打電話去問了那有一些我希望這個署長這邊也明確要去清查啦"},{"start":156.544,"end":172.346,"text":" ﹖﹖﹖"},{"start":172.346,"end":202.346,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":202.446,"end":218.927,"text":"adequ�三個我也聽到很明顯的數位落差啦數位落差包括了他在機器設備上面這一種落差第二個我是講真的耶這個人的部分有數位落差也蠻嚴重的你知道嗎"},{"start":219.608,"end":241.385,"text":"他有點恐懼他有點怕他們能不用就不用有時候不是因為你做到局長了你的數位就很厲害嘛對不對所以在地方中央政府我們普遍問到都這種情況所以我想這個部長你說一下好了除了這三個原因你目前看到最大的原因大概排序是怎麼樣"},{"start":242.544,"end":262.938,"text":"其實一句話來講就是有沒有一個公共建設或共同公益契約提供的一個解決方案只要他們知道有技術解決方案的通常不會抗拒還不知道或者目前他的用法還沒有辦法直接被技術上解決的他一想到說他還要開一個採購案還要建置系統等等那就會告訴我們說期程要拖比較長"},{"start":265.768,"end":281.254,"text":"那我現在就請教你喔這個漏日條款確定要3年嗎?我們也在討論這個問題喔其實你不是要給他們3年啦你已經給他20年了你已經有20年除非他自己不管那是他的事情"},{"start":281.934,"end":307.217,"text":"如果他沒有意識到這個時代是怎麼樣坦白講我也覺得是他跟不上時代那我覺得民間已經這麼活絡了不管是數位經濟數位方面的一個推動而且他的認證、憑證可用的包括我們認為說這高風險啊他們事實上幾百萬包括很多的部分都用電子來做一個證明的一個方向"},{"start":307.637,"end":337.637,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":337.637,"end":337.961,"text":"響鐘。"},{"start":338.806,"end":367.045,"text":"我希望說這個部分我已經也提過了很多的有數位落差的部分系統怎麼樣去整合怎麼樣去真的是讓要用的人也覺得說你不管到這個期間是多久不是讓他去拖的你知道嗎如果沒有學習沒有跟上其實你再給他3年再給他5年他還是跟不上所以我覺得在中間是一個非常重要的push推動而且必須要有明確的一個進度如果這個法規通過了"},{"start":368.806,"end":390.133,"text":"針對於這些不管各種方式沒有辦法跟上或者已經他公告他不要用這些單位你們有沒有一個明確的計畫讓他逐步跟上有我們其實在去年就提了剛剛提到四支公共建設計畫大概都是在協助各個機關他不用自行建置來用我們的系統就可以"},{"start":390.473,"end":402.173,"text":"只是說因為每個機關的需求他是持續在出現所以我們也會盡快的來盤點各個機關他的需求看有沒有我們漏掉的還沒有提公共建設的那我們就趕快在接下來預算會期來幫他們提出"},{"start":403.697,"end":426.728,"text":"好,那最後我要特別提醒一下因為大家都期待電子簽章法特別提了非常多次如果電子簽章法經過修法上路之後你預計有效的能夠對於詐騙防詐這個部分應該非常有效特別冒充投資的民營廣告冒充名人因為他要有自己的簽章"},{"start":427.708,"end":441.585,"text":"那我想這樣的因為現在主要最熱門的一些社群的平台我知道你有沒有部分的一個溝通啊 有什麼時候明確像Meta、Google你們是不是已經溝通 左邊這三個有落地的我們都OK了嗎"},{"start":442.927,"end":470.222,"text":"那其他的這個部分現在會有個狀況如果你沒有辦法公平讓主要的社群平台一起上路的時候有可能發生一個最糟糕的一個現況就是劣幣足良幣大家一起抓的市場是一個客戶要登廣告的要付費大家抓的這一塊就他客戶的一個角度你要我放手可以按照這個制度來他不放"},{"start":471.83,"end":500.696,"text":"變成很多奇奇怪怪的搞不好這些客戶都到哪裡去了原來他可以拖他可以不配合他可以用原來的方式他還不用電子簽章所以我是希望在台灣這些主要的平台真的這個時間要好好去溝通大家一定主要至少七到八成這社群平台都能夠一起上路才能夠非常齊步的向前走這個部分你有沒有信心啊"},{"start":500.876,"end":528.464,"text":"對,我想左邊這三個有落地的在網路廣告平台的市場占比應該不止七八成啦所以我想這個部分一定是先處理那剛才提到的境外平台如果還沒有落地的話未來我們跟內政部會有個打詐的專法那內政部應該會盡快送到大院那個三度通過的話我們就會有一個境外平台一定要落地的這個法律義務好,我們真的是希望電子簽章法通過之後對於詐騙這個部分能夠如你說的能夠落實謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}}}