{"id":150153,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150153","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f19296e322bc81181bc31a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a6672d3be51d7c13475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"11:47:56 - 11:53:59","影片長度":"00:06:03","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":363,"end_time":"2024-03-20T11:53:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:47:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":763,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時48分）你好，我們請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，我今天有在相關的媒體報導看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制，無論是直接的或間接的……"],["唐部長鳳：境外敵對勢力。"],["陳委員冠廷：都叫做危害國家資通安全產品，那TikTok現在就是危害產品。"],["唐部長鳳：對，對。"],["陳委員冠廷：根據這件事情，其實我必須邀請部長來擔任更多的角色。怎麼說？因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案，要求TikTok的母公司字節跳動在六個月內必須出售這款熱門的影音分享平台，不然就會面臨全面的禁令，我認為美國國會之所以可以動作那麼迅速，還有對此案這樣堅定，其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過字節跳動來影響這個社群平台，在正式通過這個法案之前，使用TikTok時有出來一個彈跳視窗，要求美國的TikTok使用者致電給他們的國會議員，請國會議員們不要去傷害TikTok，所以我必須說，這樣子的社群平台本身就能夠擁有干預一國內政的能力。"],["唐部長鳳：其實剛好展現它有地理定位的能力。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，沒錯。而且更令人擔憂的是，其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿十八歲的人，所以他們可以掌握使用者的年齡層、可以掌握使用者的地區性也能夠掌握影響輿論的方式，而不是透過公平的演算法則，所以讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力，這不是影響到美國國家安全而已，其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響，所以他們通過這個法案。我想請問部長，根據媒體的報導，數發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險？並且可不可以擔當更大的角色，來去提供相關的法案、做一些主導？"],["唐部長鳳：是，謝謝委員的垂詢，從我們部成立開始，不管是在資通安全會報還是在相關的討論裡面，其實這個題目我們確實是很認真地在處理。因為以前針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌，或特定廠牌的註冊地點，這樣的管理方式其實是非常容易規避，換一個名字、換一個廠商名稱，註冊到美國或開曼群島就規避掉了，所以我們現在才在新版的資安法裡面去確保一個情資通報系統，可以通報說，本來不是危害產品的，透過一次購併就變成了危害產品；本來註冊在這裡的，但是因為我們說它是危害產品，就換了一個註冊地等等。即時通知之後，這個新註冊的只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制就還是危害產品，不管換多少次名字或註冊地，我們新版的資安法就是這樣子來處理，現在已經送到行政院。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以會是在資安法下面相關的法律裡？"],["唐部長鳳：就是關於危害產品的定義，目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用，但是也跟委員報告，我們送的院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定、特定非公務機關等等的部分，由這些目的事業主管機關來看哪些危害產品的限制要用在哪裡。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，所以現在還是主要針對公部門？"],["唐部長鳳：因為目前新的資安法還沒有通過。"],["陳委員冠廷：未來還是朝向以公家單位為主？"],["唐部長鳳：未來的話，一方面就是會延伸，舉例來說，像目的事業主管機關自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關，就可以說它也要接這個危害情資的通報，而且它也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用，等於就是說，對於政府網路我們當然會管；根據兒少法當然中小學的網路我們會管，除此之外，其他的部分我們也授權各目的事業主管機關，在它們的特定非公務機關來處理。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。可是我還是強調，我們看到美國的例子，美國不是只針對美國的公務機關而已，TikTok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已，可以看得出來它是針對一點多億的用戶直接去影響，所以它是直接危害到公共的利益，危害到公共利益的時候，可能就不能夠只限縮在公部門的部分。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以是不是能夠有更完善的立法版本，草擬出一個方案讓我們來面對？這不是一個單一事件，它也不是針對單一部門，甚至不是針對公部門，公私部門跟部門以外的一般民眾，甚至是十八歲以下的幼童，全部都有相關性，所以能不能請數位部擬一個全面性的草案，至少提供給我們報告，給我們一個立法更完善的方向？特別是在技術方面，我們不是技術人才，所以我們沒有辦法進入它的演算法，然後針對它的演算法提出一些看法，所以我們更需要數位部提供專業看法做為我們立法的準則，然後我們才會跟其他立法委員來立法，如果數位部不主導的話，那就是由國會議員來主導。"],["唐部長鳳：在行政院院版草案的形成過程裡，很謝謝委員提醒，我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等都有討論，委員的意思是說這是全面性的，不是只有教育或者是相關的，所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委協調的時候帶到這個想法，以及等院版草案出來的時候要很詳細地跟各界說明這件事情，這個我們一定會做。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，如果可以的話，最後請給我一個簡單的書面報告，針對美國的這一個法案，你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好。"],["唐部長鳳：跟資安法相關的部分，我們就請資安署來提供。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。陳委員發言完畢。","現在請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","現在請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150153","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150153","tool":"pyannote","id":"150153-pyannote"},"job_id":"oFgHZSEClgTv3BU0","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 150.712, \"end\": 151.212, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 151.212, \"end\": 151.453, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.453, \"end\": 151.593, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"吹\", \"start\": 151.593, \"end\": 152.914, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 152.914, \"end\": 153.094, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 153.094, \"end\": 153.334, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 153.334, \"end\": 153.574, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 153.574, \"end\": 153.854, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 153.854, \"end\": 154.295, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 154.295, 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\"end\": 343.186, \"text\": \"更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 318.627, \"end\": 318.807, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 318.807, \"end\": 318.967, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 318.967, \"end\": 319.648, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 319.648, \"end\": 319.828, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 319.828, \"end\": 320.128, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 320.128, \"end\": 320.428, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 320.428, \"end\": 320.529, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 320.529, \"end\": 320.869, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 320.869, \"end\": 321.309, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, 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00:00:34,045\n一號我們請部長請部長委員好部長好部長我今天有在相關的媒體報導然後有看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制無論直接或間接境外敵對勢力都叫做危害國家之同安全產品那TikTok現在就是\n\n2\n00:00:34,565 --> 00:00:58,273\n危害產品對那根據這件事情其實我必須要邀請部長來擔任更多的這個角色怎麼說因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案那要求貼透的母公司字節跳動在6個月內那必須要出售這款熱門的影音分享平台不然就會面臨全面的禁令\n\n3\n00:00:59,033 --> 00:01:16,798\n那我認為美國的國會之所以可以那麼的動作的迅速還有他們對此案的堅定性其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過這個字節跳動來去影響這個社群平台他在正式要\n\n4\n00:01:18,069 --> 00:01:42,107\n把這個法案通過之前TikTok有出來一個彈跳視窗要求這些美國的這些TikTok的使用者致電給他們的國會議員請國會議員們不要來去傷害TikTok所以我必須說這樣子的社群平台他本身就能夠擁有干預一國的內政的能力剛好展現他有地理定位的能力等等\n\n5\n00:01:42,828 --> 00:02:00,766\n對沒錯而且更令人擔憂的是其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿18歲的所以他們可以掌握你的年齡層他可以掌握你的地區性他也能夠掌握影響移入的方式而不是透過公平的演算法則\n\n6\n00:02:01,787 --> 00:02:29,352\n所以這樣讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力這不是影響到美國國家安全而已其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響所以他們通過了這個法案我想請問部長那根據這個媒體的這個報導請問速發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險並且可不可以擔當更大的角色來去提供相關的法案做一些主導性\n\n7\n00:02:30,712 --> 00:02:52,228\n是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到\n\n8\n00:02:53,229 --> 00:03:22,247\n美國去或開曼群島去就規避掉了所以我們現在才是在新版的資安法裏面去確保一個情資通報系統可以通報說本來不是危害產品的他透過一次詬病就變成了危害產品他本來註冊在這裏的但是因為我們說他是危害產品他換了一個註冊地等等那即時的通知之後這個新的他只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制他就還是危害產品不管他換多少次名字或註冊地那這部分我們是在新版的資安法已經送到行政院裏面就是這樣子來處理\n\n9\n00:03:22,927 --> 00:03:47,403\n所以他會是在治安法下面相關的這個就是關於危害產品的這個定義那當然目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用但是也跟委員報告我們送院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定特定非公務機關等等的這個部分看由這些目的事業主管機關來看說哪些危害產品的限制要使用在哪裏所以現在還是部長還是主要是針對公部門或者是公務機關目前新的治安法還沒有通過\n\n10\n00:03:48,843 --> 00:04:15,773\n未來的話一方面就是他會延伸到舉例來說向目的世界主管機關他自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關他就可以來說那他也要接這個危害情資的通報而且他也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用等於是說除了我們當然對於政府網路我們會管那兒少法當然中小學的網路會管之外其他的部分我們也授權跟目的世界主管機關在他的特定非公務機關來處理\n\n11\n00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:35,809\n謝謝部長可是我還是強調就是就我們看到美國的例子上那他不是只是針對美國的公務機關而已那他tiktok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已你看出來他是針對他是數這個一點多億的用戶那直接去影響所以他是直接危害到公共的這些利益\n\n12\n00:04:51,696 --> 00:05:17,867\n對公部門、公司部門跟部門以外的一般民眾甚至是18歲以下的這些幼童全部都有相關性所以能不能請速發部或數位部能夠玩你一點全面性的草案至少是提供給我們報告給我們一個立法更完善的方向特別是在技術方面我們不是技術人才所以我們有辦法進入他的演算法然後針對他的演算法做出一些看法\n\n13\n00:05:18,627 --> 00:05:43,186\n更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法\n\n14\n00:05:44,927 --> 00:06:01,501\n那以及等用版草案出來的時候,要很詳細的跟各界說明這件事情,這個我們一定會做。然後部長,如果可以的話,最後只請給我一個簡單的書面報告,就是說針對美國的這一個法案跟你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好,因為這個﹖跟資安法相關的部分我們就請資安署來提供。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7657\t34045\t一號我們請部長請部長委員好部長好部長我今天有在相關的媒體報導然後有看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制無論直接或間接境外敵對勢力都叫做危害國家之同安全產品那TikTok現在就是\n34565\t58273\t危害產品對那根據這件事情其實我必須要邀請部長來擔任更多的這個角色怎麼說因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案那要求貼透的母公司字節跳動在6個月內那必須要出售這款熱門的影音分享平台不然就會面臨全面的禁令\n59033\t76798\t那我認為美國的國會之所以可以那麼的動作的迅速還有他們對此案的堅定性其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過這個字節跳動來去影響這個社群平台他在正式要\n78069\t102107\t把這個法案通過之前TikTok有出來一個彈跳視窗要求這些美國的這些TikTok的使用者致電給他們的國會議員請國會議員們不要來去傷害TikTok所以我必須說這樣子的社群平台他本身就能夠擁有干預一國的內政的能力剛好展現他有地理定位的能力等等\n102828\t120766\t對沒錯而且更令人擔憂的是其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿18歲的所以他們可以掌握你的年齡層他可以掌握你的地區性他也能夠掌握影響移入的方式而不是透過公平的演算法則\n121787\t149352\t所以這樣讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力這不是影響到美國國家安全而已其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響所以他們通過了這個法案我想請問部長那根據這個媒體的這個報導請問速發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險並且可不可以擔當更大的角色來去提供相關的法案做一些主導性\n150712\t172228\t是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到\n173229\t202247\t美國去或開曼群島去就規避掉了所以我們現在才是在新版的資安法裏面去確保一個情資通報系統可以通報說本來不是危害產品的他透過一次詬病就變成了危害產品他本來註冊在這裏的但是因為我們說他是危害產品他換了一個註冊地等等那即時的通知之後這個新的他只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制他就還是危害產品不管他換多少次名字或註冊地那這部分我們是在新版的資安法已經送到行政院裏面就是這樣子來處理\n202927\t227403\t所以他會是在治安法下面相關的這個就是關於危害產品的這個定義那當然目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用但是也跟委員報告我們送院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定特定非公務機關等等的這個部分看由這些目的事業主管機關來看說哪些危害產品的限制要使用在哪裏所以現在還是部長還是主要是針對公部門或者是公務機關目前新的治安法還沒有通過\n228843\t255773\t未來的話一方面就是他會延伸到舉例來說向目的世界主管機關他自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關他就可以來說那他也要接這個危害情資的通報而且他也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用等於是說除了我們當然對於政府網路我們會管那兒少法當然中小學的網路會管之外其他的部分我們也授權跟目的世界主管機關在他的特定非公務機關來處理\n257400\t275809\t謝謝部長可是我還是強調就是就我們看到美國的例子上那他不是只是針對美國的公務機關而已那他tiktok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已你看出來他是針對他是數這個一點多億的用戶那直接去影響所以他是直接危害到公共的這些利益\n276169\t291476\t﹏﹏\n291696\t317867\t對公部門、公司部門跟部門以外的一般民眾甚至是18歲以下的這些幼童全部都有相關性所以能不能請速發部或數位部能夠玩你一點全面性的草案至少是提供給我們報告給我們一個立法更完善的方向特別是在技術方面我們不是技術人才所以我們有辦法進入他的演算法然後針對他的演算法做出一些看法\n318627\t343186\t更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法\n344927\t361501\t那以及等用版草案出來的時候,要很詳細的跟各界說明這件事情,這個我們一定會做。然後部長,如果可以的話,最後只請給我一個簡單的書面報告,就是說針對美國的這一個法案跟你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好,因為這個﹖跟資安法相關的部分我們就請資安署來提供。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝。\n","txt":"一號我們請部長請部長委員好部長好部長我今天有在相關的媒體報導然後有看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制無論直接或間接境外敵對勢力都叫做危害國家之同安全產品那TikTok現在就是\n危害產品對那根據這件事情其實我必須要邀請部長來擔任更多的這個角色怎麼說因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案那要求貼透的母公司字節跳動在6個月內那必須要出售這款熱門的影音分享平台不然就會面臨全面的禁令\n那我認為美國的國會之所以可以那麼的動作的迅速還有他們對此案的堅定性其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過這個字節跳動來去影響這個社群平台他在正式要\n把這個法案通過之前TikTok有出來一個彈跳視窗要求這些美國的這些TikTok的使用者致電給他們的國會議員請國會議員們不要來去傷害TikTok所以我必須說這樣子的社群平台他本身就能夠擁有干預一國的內政的能力剛好展現他有地理定位的能力等等\n對沒錯而且更令人擔憂的是其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿18歲的所以他們可以掌握你的年齡層他可以掌握你的地區性他也能夠掌握影響移入的方式而不是透過公平的演算法則\n所以這樣讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力這不是影響到美國國家安全而已其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響所以他們通過了這個法案我想請問部長那根據這個媒體的這個報導請問速發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險並且可不可以擔當更大的角色來去提供相關的法案做一些主導性\n是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到\n美國去或開曼群島去就規避掉了所以我們現在才是在新版的資安法裏面去確保一個情資通報系統可以通報說本來不是危害產品的他透過一次詬病就變成了危害產品他本來註冊在這裏的但是因為我們說他是危害產品他換了一個註冊地等等那即時的通知之後這個新的他只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制他就還是危害產品不管他換多少次名字或註冊地那這部分我們是在新版的資安法已經送到行政院裏面就是這樣子來處理\n所以他會是在治安法下面相關的這個就是關於危害產品的這個定義那當然目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用但是也跟委員報告我們送院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定特定非公務機關等等的這個部分看由這些目的事業主管機關來看說哪些危害產品的限制要使用在哪裏所以現在還是部長還是主要是針對公部門或者是公務機關目前新的治安法還沒有通過\n未來的話一方面就是他會延伸到舉例來說向目的世界主管機關他自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關他就可以來說那他也要接這個危害情資的通報而且他也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用等於是說除了我們當然對於政府網路我們會管那兒少法當然中小學的網路會管之外其他的部分我們也授權跟目的世界主管機關在他的特定非公務機關來處理\n謝謝部長可是我還是強調就是就我們看到美國的例子上那他不是只是針對美國的公務機關而已那他tiktok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已你看出來他是針對他是數這個一點多億的用戶那直接去影響所以他是直接危害到公共的這些利益\n﹏﹏\n對公部門、公司部門跟部門以外的一般民眾甚至是18歲以下的這些幼童全部都有相關性所以能不能請速發部或數位部能夠玩你一點全面性的草案至少是提供給我們報告給我們一個立法更完善的方向特別是在技術方面我們不是技術人才所以我們有辦法進入他的演算法然後針對他的演算法做出一些看法\n更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法\n那以及等用版草案出來的時候,要很詳細的跟各界說明這件事情,這個我們一定會做。然後部長,如果可以的話,最後只請給我一個簡單的書面報告,就是說針對美國的這一個法案跟你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好,因為這個﹖跟資安法相關的部分我們就請資安署來提供。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.657 --> 00:34.045\n一號我們請部長請部長委員好部長好部長我今天有在相關的媒體報導然後有看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制無論直接或間接境外敵對勢力都叫做危害國家之同安全產品那TikTok現在就是\n\n00:34.565 --> 00:58.273\n危害產品對那根據這件事情其實我必須要邀請部長來擔任更多的這個角色怎麼說因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案那要求貼透的母公司字節跳動在6個月內那必須要出售這款熱門的影音分享平台不然就會面臨全面的禁令\n\n00:59.033 --> 01:16.798\n那我認為美國的國會之所以可以那麼的動作的迅速還有他們對此案的堅定性其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過這個字節跳動來去影響這個社群平台他在正式要\n\n01:18.069 --> 01:42.107\n把這個法案通過之前TikTok有出來一個彈跳視窗要求這些美國的這些TikTok的使用者致電給他們的國會議員請國會議員們不要來去傷害TikTok所以我必須說這樣子的社群平台他本身就能夠擁有干預一國的內政的能力剛好展現他有地理定位的能力等等\n\n01:42.828 --> 02:00.766\n對沒錯而且更令人擔憂的是其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿18歲的所以他們可以掌握你的年齡層他可以掌握你的地區性他也能夠掌握影響移入的方式而不是透過公平的演算法則\n\n02:01.787 --> 02:29.352\n所以這樣讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力這不是影響到美國國家安全而已其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響所以他們通過了這個法案我想請問部長那根據這個媒體的這個報導請問速發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險並且可不可以擔當更大的角色來去提供相關的法案做一些主導性\n\n02:30.712 --> 02:52.228\n是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到\n\n02:53.229 --> 03:22.247\n美國去或開曼群島去就規避掉了所以我們現在才是在新版的資安法裏面去確保一個情資通報系統可以通報說本來不是危害產品的他透過一次詬病就變成了危害產品他本來註冊在這裏的但是因為我們說他是危害產品他換了一個註冊地等等那即時的通知之後這個新的他只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制他就還是危害產品不管他換多少次名字或註冊地那這部分我們是在新版的資安法已經送到行政院裏面就是這樣子來處理\n\n03:22.927 --> 03:47.403\n所以他會是在治安法下面相關的這個就是關於危害產品的這個定義那當然目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用但是也跟委員報告我們送院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定特定非公務機關等等的這個部分看由這些目的事業主管機關來看說哪些危害產品的限制要使用在哪裏所以現在還是部長還是主要是針對公部門或者是公務機關目前新的治安法還沒有通過\n\n03:48.843 --> 04:15.773\n未來的話一方面就是他會延伸到舉例來說向目的世界主管機關他自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關他就可以來說那他也要接這個危害情資的通報而且他也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用等於是說除了我們當然對於政府網路我們會管那兒少法當然中小學的網路會管之外其他的部分我們也授權跟目的世界主管機關在他的特定非公務機關來處理\n\n04:17.400 --> 04:35.809\n謝謝部長可是我還是強調就是就我們看到美國的例子上那他不是只是針對美國的公務機關而已那他tiktok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已你看出來他是針對他是數這個一點多億的用戶那直接去影響所以他是直接危害到公共的這些利益\n\n04:51.696 --> 05:17.867\n對公部門、公司部門跟部門以外的一般民眾甚至是18歲以下的這些幼童全部都有相關性所以能不能請速發部或數位部能夠玩你一點全面性的草案至少是提供給我們報告給我們一個立法更完善的方向特別是在技術方面我們不是技術人才所以我們有辦法進入他的演算法然後針對他的演算法做出一些看法\n\n05:18.627 --> 05:43.186\n更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法\n\n05:44.927 --> 06:01.501\n那以及等用版草案出來的時候,要很詳細的跟各界說明這件事情,這個我們一定會做。然後部長,如果可以的話,最後只請給我一個簡單的書面報告,就是說針對美國的這一個法案跟你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好,因為這個﹖跟資安法相關的部分我們就請資安署來提供。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.657,"end":34.045,"text":"一號我們請部長請部長委員好部長好部長我今天有在相關的媒體報導然後有看到部長說境外勢力可以實質控制無論直接或間接境外敵對勢力都叫做危害國家之同安全產品那TikTok現在就是"},{"start":34.565,"end":58.273,"text":"危害產品對那根據這件事情其實我必須要邀請部長來擔任更多的這個角色怎麼說因為美國國會最近是以壓倒性的票數通過反中國共產黨社群媒體法案那要求貼透的母公司字節跳動在6個月內那必須要出售這款熱門的影音分享平台不然就會面臨全面的禁令"},{"start":59.033,"end":76.798,"text":"那我認為美國的國會之所以可以那麼的動作的迅速還有他們對此案的堅定性其實也是因為TikTok再次證明他們能夠透過這個字節跳動來去影響這個社群平台他在正式要"},{"start":78.069,"end":102.107,"text":"把這個法案通過之前TikTok有出來一個彈跳視窗要求這些美國的這些TikTok的使用者致電給他們的國會議員請國會議員們不要來去傷害TikTok所以我必須說這樣子的社群平台他本身就能夠擁有干預一國的內政的能力剛好展現他有地理定位的能力等等"},{"start":102.828,"end":120.766,"text":"對沒錯而且更令人擔憂的是其中許多致電給國會議員的人是未滿18歲的所以他們可以掌握你的年齡層他可以掌握你的地區性他也能夠掌握影響移入的方式而不是透過公平的演算法則"},{"start":121.787,"end":149.352,"text":"所以這樣讓美國國會發現TikTok可以在背後操縱的影響力這不是影響到美國國家安全而已其實整體上面、國際上面使用TikTok的都可以被影響所以他們通過了這個法案我想請問部長那根據這個媒體的這個報導請問速發部是不是已經開始討論TikTok對國家安全可能構成的風險並且可不可以擔當更大的角色來去提供相關的法案做一些主導性"},{"start":150.712,"end":172.228,"text":"是,謝謝委員的吹詢從我們部成立而開始不管在資通安全匯報還在相關的討論裡面其實這個題目確實是我們很認真的在處理因為以前的針對特定的產品或特定的廠牌或特定廠牌的註冊地點的這樣的管理方式其實非常容易規避的他換一個名字換一個廠商名稱註冊到"},{"start":173.229,"end":202.247,"text":"美國去或開曼群島去就規避掉了所以我們現在才是在新版的資安法裏面去確保一個情資通報系統可以通報說本來不是危害產品的他透過一次詬病就變成了危害產品他本來註冊在這裏的但是因為我們說他是危害產品他換了一個註冊地等等那即時的通知之後這個新的他只要是境外敵對勢力實質控制他就還是危害產品不管他換多少次名字或註冊地那這部分我們是在新版的資安法已經送到行政院裏面就是這樣子來處理"},{"start":202.927,"end":227.403,"text":"所以他會是在治安法下面相關的這個就是關於危害產品的這個定義那當然目前是在公部門以及公部門場域禁止使用但是也跟委員報告我們送院版裡面也有包含各個目的事業主管機關指定特定非公務機關等等的這個部分看由這些目的事業主管機關來看說哪些危害產品的限制要使用在哪裏所以現在還是部長還是主要是針對公部門或者是公務機關目前新的治安法還沒有通過"},{"start":228.843,"end":255.773,"text":"未來的話一方面就是他會延伸到舉例來說向目的世界主管機關他自己所監督的那些特定非公務機關他就可以來說那他也要接這個危害情資的通報而且他也不能使用或用某種方式限制使用等於是說除了我們當然對於政府網路我們會管那兒少法當然中小學的網路會管之外其他的部分我們也授權跟目的世界主管機關在他的特定非公務機關來處理"},{"start":257.4,"end":275.809,"text":" 謝謝部長可是我還是強調就是就我們看到美國的例子上那他不是只是針對美國的公務機關而已那他tiktok的影響也不是只針對美國的公務機關而已你看出來他是針對他是數這個一點多億的用戶那直接去影響所以他是直接危害到公共的這些利益"},{"start":276.169,"end":291.476,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":291.696,"end":317.867,"text":"對公部門、公司部門跟部門以外的一般民眾甚至是18歲以下的這些幼童全部都有相關性所以能不能請速發部或數位部能夠玩你一點全面性的草案至少是提供給我們報告給我們一個立法更完善的方向特別是在技術方面我們不是技術人才所以我們有辦法進入他的演算法然後針對他的演算法做出一些看法"},{"start":318.627,"end":343.186,"text":"更需要數位部能夠提供這樣的專業看法作為我們的立法的一個準則然後我們才跟其他的立法委員如果數位部不主導的話那就是由國會議員來主導這樣我想在那個行政院院板草案的形成過程裡很謝謝委員提醒我們之前本來就跟教育單位等等這個都有討論那委員的意思是說這是全面性的啦不是不是只有教育或者相關的所以我想這部分我們會在院裡面政委在協調的時候我們會帶到這個想法"},{"start":344.927,"end":361.501,"text":"那以及等用版草案出來的時候,要很詳細的跟各界說明這件事情,這個我們一定會做。然後部長,如果可以的話,最後只請給我一個簡單的書面報告,就是說針對美國的這一個法案跟你們認為怎麼樣的做法會比較好,因為這個﹖跟資安法相關的部分我們就請資安署來提供。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝。"}]}}}}