{"id":150155,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150155","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1928e910787f405155a1a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a66bec4195852848de5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:54:20 - 12:04:04","影片長度":"00:09:44","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-4"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":584,"end_time":"2024-03-20T12:04:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:54:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":791,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時54分）謝謝主席。請唐鳳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長你好。"],["唐部長鳳：你好。"],["張委員啓楷：你是IT的天才，很多人很喜歡你，可是你有沒有發現這次租金和裝潢的事情就犯了眾怒，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：我有拍一支開箱的影片，因為委員說要找一天嘛。"],["張委員啓楷：對。我有看你開箱。那為什麼會犯眾怒？是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢？部長，你曉不曉得，你的數位發展部每一位員工辦公的空間跟面積，行政院是有規定的？你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：當然，因為主要是數產署跟我們秘書處在辦理，是不是請我們的幕僚來說明？"],["張委員啓楷：依照行政院跟所屬各機關辦公處所的空間跟面積規劃原則，不是只有數發部，所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間？2.42坪。你上禮拜自己開箱，又做了澄清文，你們數位部每個員工用了多大的空間？在新光大樓的部分有多少？你先不要回答，我幫你算了、我幫你算了。數位部，在新光大樓有285個人，一個人用了5.8坪，這是幾倍？一直在講天價租屋，部長，為什麼會這麼嚴重？人民為什麼這麼生氣？因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間，對不對？所以那天我很生氣問了主計長怎麼會准，不是只有錢的問題，你們的空間為什麼要這麼大呢？"],["唐部長鳳：可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有減掉嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：對啊，沒錯啊。"],["唐部長鳳：不是，這個是在講個人的……"],["張委員啓楷：來，來，來，專家在那邊，是不是？這個是2.42坪，辦法裡面就明定，個人空間跟公共空間加起來2.42坪嘛，你為什麼用了5.8坪？這是所有人和納稅人最生氣的地方，為什麼變成天價租屋？部長，我跟你講，你如果遵照這個行政院的規定，你只能租兩層樓，你現在租幾層？"],["唐部長鳳：我請我幕僚說。"],["陳處長仲山：報告委員，所謂的公共空間的面積是有規定的，沒有錯，那是個人的部分，是8平方公尺，那是屬於……"],["張委員啓楷：我算過了，你不用解釋，我算過了，也問了主計單位跟行政體系，問了我們的預算中心，我從民國84年開始追天價租屋，規定2.4坪這是非常明確的，結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多？這也是後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因。"],["陳處長仲山：報告委員，那個8平方公尺是指個人的部分，只有個人的部分，不含會議室、不含公共空間，還有一些特殊空間，所以這個部分……"],["張委員啓楷：所以加了公共空間變成是2.42坪，抱歉，我時間有限……"],["唐部長鳳：不，這2.42並不是加公共空間進去。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，這是很明確的事情、很明確的事情，所有的部會……你回去問主計處，他也是這樣跟你講。抱歉，抱歉，本席做一個很明確的決定、很明確的要求，好不好？你回去能不能退掉一層樓？"],["唐部長鳳：不是，您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議室都算在這2.42坪裡，但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明，你不能這樣子計算。"],["張委員啓楷：什麼不能這樣計算？不是，2.42坪就是個人空間加公共空間，包括你的洗手間、會議室，都在裡面。"],["唐部長鳳：我們滿確定不是這樣的。"],["張委員啓楷：這是明確規定的事情，好，我們事後再找專家來對質，好不好？"],["唐部長鳳：首先，我們書面會給你。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，如果依照這個規定，你租三層就是一個問題了，那如果確定是這樣子，部長，我們做個約定，如果是這樣的話，你們回去跟房東重新議約，三層退掉一層，可不可以？"],["唐部長鳳：您這個辦公室面積，我現在細看這個表裡面寫的是機關人員類型，按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則，所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來……"],["張委員啓楷：加上會議室。"],["唐部長鳳：這上面並沒有這樣子寫。"],["張委員啓楷：這個單位是2.42坪。","好，沒有關係，我們就是找專家來確認。然後第二個，我們就做了一個很明確的約定，如果是2.42坪，包括你說的公共空間，那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層？這是一個。第二個，這次人民憤怒的是什麼？你為什麼要找一個臺北市租金第二高的新光大樓去租？這個地方叫地后，以前叫地王，你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用筆就可以批改嗎？指紋按上去，你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎？你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢？為什麼要租這麼貴的地方？"],["唐部長鳳：其實我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢，以臺北市的商辦每坪的租金來講，我們租這個並沒有比較貴，現在租金的平均……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你知道行政院在新莊聯合辦公大樓也有空間，你可以到新莊、到新北市，為什麼一定要租一個臺北市的空間？而且為什麼在市中心？為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方？"],["唐部長鳳：一方面是我們當初有問國產署有沒有適合我們的地方，稍微遠一點也沒有關係，但是國產署是……"],["張委員啓楷：你是IT的天才，可是你這個消費行為真的跟一般民眾有落差。"],["唐部長鳳：國產署是說，好比像現在行二、行三要蓋，未來可能要5年或6年左右，所以我們這5、6年目前是按照國產署的要求，我們來租這樣子一個辦公室，但是當然如果它提早給我們別的地方可以用，我們也可以提早去啊！"],["張委員啓楷：我們再看另外一個，這幾天你自己在開箱嘛！我們看一下裝潢好不好？裝潢到底貴不貴？裝潢會這麼貴的原因，兩個嘛！一個就是你的空間太大，所以你才會除出一個什麼2萬塊的；空間如果像我講的是小的，只有兩層的話，當然單價就變高嘛！第二，更離譜的是什麼？你開箱完之後，有不少專家、資深的設計師就說：「我們這個天才啊！唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了？」你比照一下你自己po 的開箱文，你的裝修前跟裝修後，燈具、空調、消防、沒有隔間，這個不是都是一樣的嗎？為什麼要花這麼多錢？"],["唐部長鳳：有些像會議室等等是有隔間的，我們沒有開箱到會議室的部分。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，所以你看裝修前本來就有燈具了，對不對？空調跟消防本來就應該要有了嘛？這個應該都不在裡面……"],["唐部長鳳：包含桌上的燈具……"],["張委員啓楷：所以你一直在強調說只有2萬，我跟你說兩個重點，第一，你如果空間沒這麼大就不應該是這個價格，錢就省下，人民的納稅錢就省下來，對不對？包括裝潢費用、包括租金都是可以省的，包括你去租了一個最貴的地方，你如果搬到例如說新莊等等別的地方，租金……"],["唐部長鳳：它低於平均，所以並不是最貴的地方。"],["張委員啓楷：現在你開箱完之後，專家出來跟你講，如果裝修前燈具已經在那裡，這你自己po的嘛！裝修前那個燈已經在了，對不對？這個新光大樓以前一定也有消防、有空調嘛！對不對？它都不用再用到錢啊！你為什麼要再花那筆錢？第二個，更嚴重喔！你本來就知道它是一個中繼辦公室，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：就是5年或6年，6年左右。"],["張委員啓楷：人民的納稅錢要省著用啊！你每一分錢都是很重要的啊！一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花3,400萬去裝潢？"],["唐部長鳳：我們裝潢完可以用6年。"],["張委員啓楷：本來是一年半，後來是那邊沒有蓋，你現在又簽了一個新的6年，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：我想我應該這樣講，本來國產署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡，所以我們是先簽一年半，然後等國產署的指示。國產署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二、行三等等，因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間，所以當然我們就續約。"],["張委員啓楷：對，所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛！現在人民在心疼的是什麼？每一分錢都很重要，有人就直接問，如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢，只是一個中繼辦公室，你裝潢要弄到3,450萬嗎？你是不是有落差？那個感覺有沒有落差？你可以更省一點錢。而且我剛剛跟你講了，如果從本席一開始質詢到現在，地點不要是那麼貴的地方；第二個，地方不要那麼大，特別是地方，你們跟我有爭議，我們就把它弄清楚，根本就是租金也不要那麼貴、裝潢也不要那麼貴。","所以我們做個簡單的結論，好不好？第一個，我們當然要有專家，我們都很理性在問政，我知道部長也是理性，我們就把它弄清楚……"],["唐部長鳳：會議室等等空間到底要不要算在每人坪數裡，我想這個是主要爭點，因為你後面的論點都是從這裡來的。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，事實上我已經算進去了，現在是你的幕僚說沒有算進去，事實上已經算進去了，所以我們非常合理的、很理性的，我們事後把它弄清楚……"],["唐部長鳳：我們可以事後來聯絡……"],["張委員啓楷：如果弄清楚，本席非常明確地對著全國民眾要求……"],["唐部長鳳：甚至請幕僚來……"],["張委員啓楷：你們三層樓要跟房東好好再去議價，甚至就退掉一層樓，你看你未來租了6年，租3億，對不對？你租了3億嘛！對不對？1年要5,000萬，你如果少掉一層……請先聽我講……"],["主席：請數位部跟張委員來做說明……"],["張委員啓楷：你如果少掉一層，未來6年國庫跟人民的納稅錢就可以省掉……"],["唐部長鳳：召委剛剛已經裁示了……"],["主席：請數位部會後跟張委員來做說明。"],["唐部長鳳：我們是不是就依照召委的裁示？"],["張委員啓楷：好，那我們等一下就坐下來，把你這個規則弄清楚，我是請問過專家，我們把它弄清楚，好不好？"],["主席：好，那官員等一下跟委員來做說明。"],["張委員啓楷：然後你已經做開箱了，如果空間還是太大，下禮拜我們就約個時間，我找資深的設計師、裝潢工程師，我們再開箱一次，我們去看看到底有沒有浪費。"],["唐部長鳳：我們先把您剛剛那個表格釐清，好不好？您剛剛那個表格先釐清，這個才是重點，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，要理性喔！"],["張委員啓楷：我們等一下就坐下來，包括你的工作人員。謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","現在請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。","現在請林德福委員、林德福委員、林德福委員不在。","現在請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","現在報告，登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢；委員黃健豪所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報；委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請數位部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150155","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150155","tool":"pyannote","id":"150155-pyannote"},"job_id":"2EbiFGggHt2vmoS3","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 325.9, \"end\": 326.0, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 326.0, \"end\": 326.12, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 326.12, \"end\": 326.44, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 326.44, \"end\": 326.681, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 326.681, \"end\": 327.041, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 327.041, \"end\": 327.201, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 327.201, \"end\": 327.321, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 327.321, \"end\": 328.021, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 328.021, \"end\": 328.261, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 328.261, \"end\": 328.361, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 582.49, \"end\": 582.61, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 582.61, \"end\": 582.83, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 582.83, \"end\": 582.85, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,070 --> 00:00:14,671\n祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀\n\n2\n00:00:23,206 --> 00:00:50,610\n你好你好你是IT的天才啦很多人很喜歡你可是有沒有發現這次這個租金和裝潢事情都犯了中路對不對我有開箱的影片因為委員說找一天嘛對對對我看了也開箱完了那為什麼犯中路是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢部長你曉不曉得你的數位發展部每位員工辦公的空間跟面積行政院是有規定的嗯\n\n3\n00:00:51,874 --> 00:01:19,824\n你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎當然這個我們因為主要是素產署跟我們這個民俗處是不是請我們的穆雅來講行政院跟所屬各機關辦公廁所的空間跟面積規劃原則是不是你就直接來你看一下依照這個規劃原則不是只有事務發布所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間\n\n4\n00:01:21,499 --> 00:01:36,491\n二點四二平你上禮拜自己開箱又做了澄清文你們數位部每個員工用了多大空間你星光大樓你先不要回答我幫你算了我幫你算了星光大樓數位部285個人\n\n5\n00:01:39,824 --> 00:01:56,628\n一個人用了5.8平這是幾倍?一直在講天價豬為什麼會有這個那個部長為什麼會這麼嚴重人民為什麼這麼生氣因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間對不對所以那天我很生氣問了主計長啊你怎麼會準啊不是就錢的問題啊你的空間為什麼要這麼大呢\n\n6\n00:02:04,149 --> 00:02:07,690\n欸可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有把它分掉嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:07,690 --> 00:02:27,036\n對啊沒錯啊不是他這個2.42平就是來來來專家在那邊是不是這個是2.42平這個辦法裡面就明定是個人跟公共空間加起來2.42平嘛你為什麼用了5.8平這是所有人現在納稅人最生氣的地方你為什麼變成天價租屋\n\n8\n00:02:27,970 --> 00:02:33,340\n部長我跟你講你如果是遵照這個行政院的規定你只能出兩層樓你現在做幾層\n\n9\n00:02:37,562 --> 00:02:59,640\n報告委員他所謂的那個公共空間的面積是有規定的是沒有錯那是個人那是8平方米8平方公尺那是屬於我算過了你不用解釋這個我算過了問了主計單位跟行政體系問了我們的預算中心了我從民國84年開始追天價租屋\n\n10\n00:03:00,481 --> 00:03:27,878\n二點四坪這就是非常明確的結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多這也是所有後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因報告委員那個八平方公尺是指個人的部分只有個人的部分它不含稅宜室不含公共空間所以這個部分還有一個特殊空間所以加了公共空間嘛變成是二點四二坪嘛發現我時間有限這個二點四二並不是加公共空間進去那個部長部長部長\n\n11\n00:03:29,119 --> 00:03:50,933\n這是很明確的事情很明確的事情這所有的部會你回去問主席處他也是這樣跟你講那現在抱歉抱歉所以我本期做個很明確的決定好不好很明確的要求你回去能不能退掉一層樓您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議是什麼都算在這個2.42裡但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明不能這樣子計算\n\n12\n00:03:51,593 --> 00:03:59,504\n為什麼不能在不是2.42就是個人空間叫公共空間包括你的洗手間什麼會議室都在裡面我們蠻確定不是這樣的\n\n13\n00:04:02,521 --> 00:04:21,389\n這是明確規定事情好我們事後再來再找專家來對質好不好這是第一個來來首先我們書面如果部長如果依照這個規定你租三層就是一個問題了那如果確定是這樣子部長我們做個約定如果是這樣的話你們回去重新跟房東重新議約三層退掉一層可不可以\n\n14\n00:04:21,969 --> 00:04:48,802\n您這個辦公室面積我現在細看這個表它裡面寫的是機關人員類型按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來對加上會議室這上面並沒有這樣子寫這個單位是2.42平好沒有關係我們就是找專家來確認然後第二個我們就做了一個很明確的約定如果是2.42平包括你說的公共空間那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層這是一個第二個這是人民婦女是什麼\n\n15\n00:04:50,191 --> 00:05:07,161\n你為什麼要找一個台北市第二高租金第二高的星光大樓去租這個地方叫帝后以前叫帝王欸你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用個筆上去就可以批改嗎只能按上去你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢為什麼要租這麼貴的地方\n\n16\n00:05:07,481 --> 00:05:24,919\n首先我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢以台北市的商辦的每坪的租金來講我們租這個並沒有比較貴為什麼啊你知道行政院在新莊聯合邦道的也有啊你可以像到新莊啊到新北市啊為什麼一定要租一個台北市而且為什麼在市中心為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方啊\n\n17\n00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:49,953\n一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊\n\n18\n00:05:51,220 --> 00:06:15,036\n我們再看另外一個這幾天你自己在開箱嘛我們看一下裝潢好不好裝潢到底貴不貴裝潢會這麼貴的因兩個嘛一個就是你的空間太大所以你才會儲出一個什麼兩萬塊的你空間如果像我講的是小的你只有兩成的話當然單價就變高嘛第二個更離譜的是什麼你開箱完之後有人有不少專家資深的設計師的說我們這個天才啊唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了\n\n19\n00:06:17,529 --> 00:06:31,097\n你比照一下。你自己PO得穩喔。自己開箱喔。你的裝修錢跟裝修貨。你的燈具、空調、消防沒有隔間。這個不是都是一樣的嗎?為什麼要花那麼多的錢?會議室有隔間。可能沒有開箱到會議室的部分。所以你看。燈具、裝修錢本來就有訂啊。對不對?空調跟消防本來應該要有的嘛。\n\n20\n00:06:40,078 --> 00:07:08,825\n我們包含桌上的這個燈具是第二面的這個燈具所以你在一直在強調說只有2萬我會說兩個重點嘛第一點你如果空間沒這麼大這不應該是這個價格錢就省下來幫人民當選你就省下來對不對包括裝潢費用包括租金都是可以省的包括你去租了一個最貴的地方你如果搬到例如說新莊別的地方租金低於平均所以並不是最貴的地方現在在專家你開箱完之後專家出來跟你講如果燈具已經在那裡裝修剪接你給你拖位嘛\n\n21\n00:07:09,685 --> 00:07:35,667\n中秋節那個燈已經在了對不對那這個星光大樓以前一定也有消防有空調嘛對不對他說不用再用到錢啊你為什麼要再花那筆錢那第二個更嚴重喔你本人就知道它是一個中繼辦公室對不對人民銀行稅錢要省著用啊你們一分錢都是很重要的啊那你一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花一個三千四百萬錢我們中華文可以用六年我們家是一年半啊啊你是後來那邊沒有幹你現在又簽了一個新的六年對不對\n\n22\n00:07:36,748 --> 00:08:03,427\n就是我想我應該這樣講本來國參署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡所以我們是先簽一年半然後等國參署的指示那國參署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二行三等等那因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間所以當然我們就續約對所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛現在人民在心疼的是什麼每一分錢都很重要有人就直接問啊如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢只是一個中繼辦公室你\n\n23\n00:08:04,407 --> 00:08:29,198\n裝潢要弄到3450萬嗎?你是不是有落差那個感覺沒有落差你可以更省一點錢而且我剛剛跟你講了你如果從本席一開始諮詢到現在地點不要是那麼貴的地方第二個地方不要那麼大特別是地方你們跟我有爭議我們就把它弄清楚那根本就是租金也不要那麼貴裝潢也不要那麼貴所以我們做個簡單的結論好不好第一個我們當然要有專家我們都很體性在問政我知道\n\n24\n00:08:29,978 --> 00:08:32,100\n我叫部長也是理性,我們去把他弄清楚。\n\n25\n00:09:00,919 --> 00:09:11,147\n你輸了三億嘛對不對一年要五千萬你如果少掉一成聽我講你如果少掉一成未來六年會後跟張委員應該已經才是對現在會後跟張委員來做說明我們是不是就依照的才是OKOK好謝謝那我們就找\n\n26\n00:09:18,112 --> 00:09:42,850\n等一下就坐下來把你這個規則弄清楚請問過專家把它弄清楚好不好然後你已經坐了開箱了如果空間還是太大下禮拜我們就約個時間我找資深的這個設計師找裝潢的人裝潢工程師我們再開箱一次我們是不是先把您剛剛那個表格先釐清好不好您剛剛那個表格先釐清這個才是重點謝謝你等一下就坐下來報告你的工作人員好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13070\t14671\t祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀\n23206\t50610\t你好你好你是IT的天才啦很多人很喜歡你可是有沒有發現這次這個租金和裝潢事情都犯了中路對不對我有開箱的影片因為委員說找一天嘛對對對我看了也開箱完了那為什麼犯中路是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢部長你曉不曉得你的數位發展部每位員工辦公的空間跟面積行政院是有規定的嗯\n51874\t79824\t你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎當然這個我們因為主要是素產署跟我們這個民俗處是不是請我們的穆雅來講行政院跟所屬各機關辦公廁所的空間跟面積規劃原則是不是你就直接來你看一下依照這個規劃原則不是只有事務發布所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間\n81499\t96491\t二點四二平你上禮拜自己開箱又做了澄清文你們數位部每個員工用了多大空間你星光大樓你先不要回答我幫你算了我幫你算了星光大樓數位部285個人\n99824\t116628\t一個人用了5.8平這是幾倍?一直在講天價豬為什麼會有這個那個部長為什麼會這麼嚴重人民為什麼這麼生氣因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間對不對所以那天我很生氣問了主計長啊你怎麼會準啊不是就錢的問題啊你的空間為什麼要這麼大呢\n124149\t127690\t欸可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有把它分掉嗎?\n127690\t147036\t對啊沒錯啊不是他這個2.42平就是來來來專家在那邊是不是這個是2.42平這個辦法裡面就明定是個人跟公共空間加起來2.42平嘛你為什麼用了5.8平這是所有人現在納稅人最生氣的地方你為什麼變成天價租屋\n147970\t153340\t部長我跟你講你如果是遵照這個行政院的規定你只能出兩層樓你現在做幾層\n157562\t179640\t報告委員他所謂的那個公共空間的面積是有規定的是沒有錯那是個人那是8平方米8平方公尺那是屬於我算過了你不用解釋這個我算過了問了主計單位跟行政體系問了我們的預算中心了我從民國84年開始追天價租屋\n180481\t207878\t二點四坪這就是非常明確的結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多這也是所有後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因報告委員那個八平方公尺是指個人的部分只有個人的部分它不含稅宜室不含公共空間所以這個部分還有一個特殊空間所以加了公共空間嘛變成是二點四二坪嘛發現我時間有限這個二點四二並不是加公共空間進去那個部長部長部長\n209119\t230933\t這是很明確的事情很明確的事情這所有的部會你回去問主席處他也是這樣跟你講那現在抱歉抱歉所以我本期做個很明確的決定好不好很明確的要求你回去能不能退掉一層樓您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議是什麼都算在這個2.42裡但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明不能這樣子計算\n231593\t239504\t為什麼不能在 不是2.42就是個人空間叫公共空間包括你的洗手間什麼會議室都在裡面我們蠻確定不是這樣的\n242521\t261389\t這是明確規定事情好我們事後再來再找專家來對質好不好這是第一個來來首先我們書面如果部長如果依照這個規定你租三層就是一個問題了那如果確定是這樣子部長我們做個約定如果是這樣的話你們回去重新跟房東重新議約三層退掉一層可不可以\n261969\t288802\t您這個辦公室面積我現在細看這個表它裡面寫的是機關人員類型按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來對加上會議室這上面並沒有這樣子寫這個單位是2.42平好沒有關係我們就是找專家來確認然後第二個我們就做了一個很明確的約定如果是2.42平包括你說的公共空間那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層這是一個第二個這是人民婦女是什麼\n290191\t307161\t你為什麼要找一個台北市第二高租金第二高的星光大樓去租這個地方叫帝后以前叫帝王欸你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用個筆上去就可以批改嗎只能按上去你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢為什麼要租這麼貴的地方\n307481\t324919\t首先我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢以台北市的商辦的每坪的租金來講我們租這個並沒有比較貴為什麼啊你知道行政院在新莊聯合邦道的也有啊你可以像到新莊啊到新北市啊為什麼一定要租一個台北市而且為什麼在市中心為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方啊\n325900\t349953\t一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊\n351220\t375036\t我們再看另外一個這幾天你自己在開箱嘛我們看一下裝潢好不好裝潢到底貴不貴裝潢會這麼貴的因兩個嘛一個就是你的空間太大所以你才會儲出一個什麼兩萬塊的你空間如果像我講的是小的你只有兩成的話當然單價就變高嘛第二個更離譜的是什麼你開箱完之後有人有不少專家資深的設計師的說我們這個天才啊唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了\n377529\t391097\t你比照一下。你自己PO得穩喔。自己開箱喔。你的裝修錢跟裝修貨。你的燈具、空調、消防沒有隔間。這個不是都是一樣的嗎?為什麼要花那麼多的錢?會議室有隔間。可能沒有開箱到會議室的部分。所以你看。燈具、裝修錢本來就有訂啊。對不對?空調跟消防本來應該要有的嘛。\n400078\t428825\t我們包含桌上的這個燈具是第二面的這個燈具所以你在一直在強調說只有2萬我會說兩個重點嘛第一點你如果空間沒這麼大這不應該是這個價格錢就省下來幫人民當選你就省下來對不對包括裝潢費用包括租金都是可以省的包括你去租了一個最貴的地方你如果搬到例如說新莊別的地方租金低於平均所以並不是最貴的地方現在在專家你開箱完之後專家出來跟你講如果燈具已經在那裡裝修剪接你給你拖位嘛\n429685\t455667\t中秋節那個燈已經在了對不對那這個星光大樓以前一定也有消防有空調嘛對不對他說不用再用到錢啊你為什麼要再花那筆錢那第二個更嚴重喔你本人就知道它是一個中繼辦公室對不對人民銀行稅錢要省著用啊你們一分錢都是很重要的啊那你一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花一個三千四百萬錢我們中華文可以用六年我們家是一年半啊啊你是後來那邊沒有幹你現在又簽了一個新的六年對不對\n456748\t483427\t就是我想我應該這樣講本來國參署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡所以我們是先簽一年半然後等國參署的指示那國參署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二行三等等那因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間所以當然我們就續約對所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛現在人民在心疼的是什麼每一分錢都很重要有人就直接問啊如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢只是一個中繼辦公室你\n484407\t509198\t裝潢要弄到3450萬嗎?你是不是有落差那個感覺沒有落差你可以更省一點錢而且我剛剛跟你講了你如果從本席一開始諮詢到現在地點不要是那麼貴的地方第二個地方不要那麼大特別是地方你們跟我有爭議我們就把它弄清楚那根本就是租金也不要那麼貴裝潢也不要那麼貴所以我們做個簡單的結論好不好第一個我們當然要有專家我們都很體性在問政我知道\n509978\t512100\t我叫部長也是理性,我們去把他弄清楚。\n540919\t551147\t你輸了三億嘛對不對一年要五千萬你如果少掉一成聽我講你如果少掉一成未來六年會後跟張委員應該已經才是對現在會後跟張委員來做說明我們是不是就依照的才是OKOK好謝謝那我們就找\n558112\t582850\t等一下就坐下來把你這個規則弄清楚請問過專家把它弄清楚好不好然後你已經坐了開箱了如果空間還是太大下禮拜我們就約個時間我找資深的這個設計師找裝潢的人裝潢工程師我們再開箱一次我們是不是先把您剛剛那個表格先釐清好不好您剛剛那個表格先釐清這個才是重點謝謝你等一下就坐下來報告你的工作人員好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝\n","txt":"祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀\n你好你好你是IT的天才啦很多人很喜歡你可是有沒有發現這次這個租金和裝潢事情都犯了中路對不對我有開箱的影片因為委員說找一天嘛對對對我看了也開箱完了那為什麼犯中路是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢部長你曉不曉得你的數位發展部每位員工辦公的空間跟面積行政院是有規定的嗯\n你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎當然這個我們因為主要是素產署跟我們這個民俗處是不是請我們的穆雅來講行政院跟所屬各機關辦公廁所的空間跟面積規劃原則是不是你就直接來你看一下依照這個規劃原則不是只有事務發布所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間\n二點四二平你上禮拜自己開箱又做了澄清文你們數位部每個員工用了多大空間你星光大樓你先不要回答我幫你算了我幫你算了星光大樓數位部285個人\n一個人用了5.8平這是幾倍?一直在講天價豬為什麼會有這個那個部長為什麼會這麼嚴重人民為什麼這麼生氣因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間對不對所以那天我很生氣問了主計長啊你怎麼會準啊不是就錢的問題啊你的空間為什麼要這麼大呢\n欸可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有把它分掉嗎?\n對啊沒錯啊不是他這個2.42平就是來來來專家在那邊是不是這個是2.42平這個辦法裡面就明定是個人跟公共空間加起來2.42平嘛你為什麼用了5.8平這是所有人現在納稅人最生氣的地方你為什麼變成天價租屋\n部長我跟你講你如果是遵照這個行政院的規定你只能出兩層樓你現在做幾層\n報告委員他所謂的那個公共空間的面積是有規定的是沒有錯那是個人那是8平方米8平方公尺那是屬於我算過了你不用解釋這個我算過了問了主計單位跟行政體系問了我們的預算中心了我從民國84年開始追天價租屋\n二點四坪這就是非常明確的結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多這也是所有後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因報告委員那個八平方公尺是指個人的部分只有個人的部分它不含稅宜室不含公共空間所以這個部分還有一個特殊空間所以加了公共空間嘛變成是二點四二坪嘛發現我時間有限這個二點四二並不是加公共空間進去那個部長部長部長\n這是很明確的事情很明確的事情這所有的部會你回去問主席處他也是這樣跟你講那現在抱歉抱歉所以我本期做個很明確的決定好不好很明確的要求你回去能不能退掉一層樓您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議是什麼都算在這個2.42裡但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明不能這樣子計算\n為什麼不能在 不是2.42就是個人空間叫公共空間包括你的洗手間什麼會議室都在裡面我們蠻確定不是這樣的\n這是明確規定事情好我們事後再來再找專家來對質好不好這是第一個來來首先我們書面如果部長如果依照這個規定你租三層就是一個問題了那如果確定是這樣子部長我們做個約定如果是這樣的話你們回去重新跟房東重新議約三層退掉一層可不可以\n您這個辦公室面積我現在細看這個表它裡面寫的是機關人員類型按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來對加上會議室這上面並沒有這樣子寫這個單位是2.42平好沒有關係我們就是找專家來確認然後第二個我們就做了一個很明確的約定如果是2.42平包括你說的公共空間那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層這是一個第二個這是人民婦女是什麼\n你為什麼要找一個台北市第二高租金第二高的星光大樓去租這個地方叫帝后以前叫帝王欸你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用個筆上去就可以批改嗎只能按上去你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢為什麼要租這麼貴的地方\n首先我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢以台北市的商辦的每坪的租金來講我們租這個並沒有比較貴為什麼啊你知道行政院在新莊聯合邦道的也有啊你可以像到新莊啊到新北市啊為什麼一定要租一個台北市而且為什麼在市中心為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方啊\n一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊\n我們再看另外一個這幾天你自己在開箱嘛我們看一下裝潢好不好裝潢到底貴不貴裝潢會這麼貴的因兩個嘛一個就是你的空間太大所以你才會儲出一個什麼兩萬塊的你空間如果像我講的是小的你只有兩成的話當然單價就變高嘛第二個更離譜的是什麼你開箱完之後有人有不少專家資深的設計師的說我們這個天才啊唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了\n你比照一下。你自己PO得穩喔。自己開箱喔。你的裝修錢跟裝修貨。你的燈具、空調、消防沒有隔間。這個不是都是一樣的嗎?為什麼要花那麼多的錢?會議室有隔間。可能沒有開箱到會議室的部分。所以你看。燈具、裝修錢本來就有訂啊。對不對?空調跟消防本來應該要有的嘛。\n我們包含桌上的這個燈具是第二面的這個燈具所以你在一直在強調說只有2萬我會說兩個重點嘛第一點你如果空間沒這麼大這不應該是這個價格錢就省下來幫人民當選你就省下來對不對包括裝潢費用包括租金都是可以省的包括你去租了一個最貴的地方你如果搬到例如說新莊別的地方租金低於平均所以並不是最貴的地方現在在專家你開箱完之後專家出來跟你講如果燈具已經在那裡裝修剪接你給你拖位嘛\n中秋節那個燈已經在了對不對那這個星光大樓以前一定也有消防有空調嘛對不對他說不用再用到錢啊你為什麼要再花那筆錢那第二個更嚴重喔你本人就知道它是一個中繼辦公室對不對人民銀行稅錢要省著用啊你們一分錢都是很重要的啊那你一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花一個三千四百萬錢我們中華文可以用六年我們家是一年半啊啊你是後來那邊沒有幹你現在又簽了一個新的六年對不對\n就是我想我應該這樣講本來國參署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡所以我們是先簽一年半然後等國參署的指示那國參署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二行三等等那因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間所以當然我們就續約對所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛現在人民在心疼的是什麼每一分錢都很重要有人就直接問啊如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢只是一個中繼辦公室你\n裝潢要弄到3450萬嗎?你是不是有落差那個感覺沒有落差你可以更省一點錢而且我剛剛跟你講了你如果從本席一開始諮詢到現在地點不要是那麼貴的地方第二個地方不要那麼大特別是地方你們跟我有爭議我們就把它弄清楚那根本就是租金也不要那麼貴裝潢也不要那麼貴所以我們做個簡單的結論好不好第一個我們當然要有專家我們都很體性在問政我知道\n我叫部長也是理性,我們去把他弄清楚。\n你輸了三億嘛對不對一年要五千萬你如果少掉一成聽我講你如果少掉一成未來六年會後跟張委員應該已經才是對現在會後跟張委員來做說明我們是不是就依照的才是OKOK好謝謝那我們就找\n等一下就坐下來把你這個規則弄清楚請問過專家把它弄清楚好不好然後你已經坐了開箱了如果空間還是太大下禮拜我們就約個時間我找資深的這個設計師找裝潢的人裝潢工程師我們再開箱一次我們是不是先把您剛剛那個表格先釐清好不好您剛剛那個表格先釐清這個才是重點謝謝你等一下就坐下來報告你的工作人員好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.070 --> 00:14.671\n祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀\n\n00:23.206 --> 00:50.610\n你好你好你是IT的天才啦很多人很喜歡你可是有沒有發現這次這個租金和裝潢事情都犯了中路對不對我有開箱的影片因為委員說找一天嘛對對對我看了也開箱完了那為什麼犯中路是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢部長你曉不曉得你的數位發展部每位員工辦公的空間跟面積行政院是有規定的嗯\n\n00:51.874 --> 01:19.824\n你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎當然這個我們因為主要是素產署跟我們這個民俗處是不是請我們的穆雅來講行政院跟所屬各機關辦公廁所的空間跟面積規劃原則是不是你就直接來你看一下依照這個規劃原則不是只有事務發布所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間\n\n01:21.499 --> 01:36.491\n二點四二平你上禮拜自己開箱又做了澄清文你們數位部每個員工用了多大空間你星光大樓你先不要回答我幫你算了我幫你算了星光大樓數位部285個人\n\n01:39.824 --> 01:56.628\n一個人用了5.8平這是幾倍?一直在講天價豬為什麼會有這個那個部長為什麼會這麼嚴重人民為什麼這麼生氣因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間對不對所以那天我很生氣問了主計長啊你怎麼會準啊不是就錢的問題啊你的空間為什麼要這麼大呢\n\n02:04.149 --> 02:07.690\n欸可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有把它分掉嗎?\n\n02:07.690 --> 02:27.036\n對啊沒錯啊不是他這個2.42平就是來來來專家在那邊是不是這個是2.42平這個辦法裡面就明定是個人跟公共空間加起來2.42平嘛你為什麼用了5.8平這是所有人現在納稅人最生氣的地方你為什麼變成天價租屋\n\n02:27.970 --> 02:33.340\n部長我跟你講你如果是遵照這個行政院的規定你只能出兩層樓你現在做幾層\n\n02:37.562 --> 02:59.640\n報告委員他所謂的那個公共空間的面積是有規定的是沒有錯那是個人那是8平方米8平方公尺那是屬於我算過了你不用解釋這個我算過了問了主計單位跟行政體系問了我們的預算中心了我從民國84年開始追天價租屋\n\n03:00.481 --> 03:27.878\n二點四坪這就是非常明確的結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多這也是所有後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因報告委員那個八平方公尺是指個人的部分只有個人的部分它不含稅宜室不含公共空間所以這個部分還有一個特殊空間所以加了公共空間嘛變成是二點四二坪嘛發現我時間有限這個二點四二並不是加公共空間進去那個部長部長部長\n\n03:29.119 --> 03:50.933\n這是很明確的事情很明確的事情這所有的部會你回去問主席處他也是這樣跟你講那現在抱歉抱歉所以我本期做個很明確的決定好不好很明確的要求你回去能不能退掉一層樓您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議是什麼都算在這個2.42裡但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明不能這樣子計算\n\n03:51.593 --> 03:59.504\n為什麼不能在不是2.42就是個人空間叫公共空間包括你的洗手間什麼會議室都在裡面我們蠻確定不是這樣的\n\n04:02.521 --> 04:21.389\n這是明確規定事情好我們事後再來再找專家來對質好不好這是第一個來來首先我們書面如果部長如果依照這個規定你租三層就是一個問題了那如果確定是這樣子部長我們做個約定如果是這樣的話你們回去重新跟房東重新議約三層退掉一層可不可以\n\n04:21.969 --> 04:48.802\n您這個辦公室面積我現在細看這個表它裡面寫的是機關人員類型按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來對加上會議室這上面並沒有這樣子寫這個單位是2.42平好沒有關係我們就是找專家來確認然後第二個我們就做了一個很明確的約定如果是2.42平包括你說的公共空間那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層這是一個第二個這是人民婦女是什麼\n\n04:50.191 --> 05:07.161\n你為什麼要找一個台北市第二高租金第二高的星光大樓去租這個地方叫帝后以前叫帝王欸你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用個筆上去就可以批改嗎只能按上去你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢為什麼要租這麼貴的地方\n\n05:07.481 --> 05:24.919\n首先我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢以台北市的商辦的每坪的租金來講我們租這個並沒有比較貴為什麼啊你知道行政院在新莊聯合邦道的也有啊你可以像到新莊啊到新北市啊為什麼一定要租一個台北市而且為什麼在市中心為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方啊\n\n05:25.900 --> 05:49.953\n一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊\n\n05:51.220 --> 06:15.036\n我們再看另外一個這幾天你自己在開箱嘛我們看一下裝潢好不好裝潢到底貴不貴裝潢會這麼貴的因兩個嘛一個就是你的空間太大所以你才會儲出一個什麼兩萬塊的你空間如果像我講的是小的你只有兩成的話當然單價就變高嘛第二個更離譜的是什麼你開箱完之後有人有不少專家資深的設計師的說我們這個天才啊唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了\n\n06:17.529 --> 06:31.097\n你比照一下。你自己PO得穩喔。自己開箱喔。你的裝修錢跟裝修貨。你的燈具、空調、消防沒有隔間。這個不是都是一樣的嗎?為什麼要花那麼多的錢?會議室有隔間。可能沒有開箱到會議室的部分。所以你看。燈具、裝修錢本來就有訂啊。對不對?空調跟消防本來應該要有的嘛。\n\n06:40.078 --> 07:08.825\n我們包含桌上的這個燈具是第二面的這個燈具所以你在一直在強調說只有2萬我會說兩個重點嘛第一點你如果空間沒這麼大這不應該是這個價格錢就省下來幫人民當選你就省下來對不對包括裝潢費用包括租金都是可以省的包括你去租了一個最貴的地方你如果搬到例如說新莊別的地方租金低於平均所以並不是最貴的地方現在在專家你開箱完之後專家出來跟你講如果燈具已經在那裡裝修剪接你給你拖位嘛\n\n07:09.685 --> 07:35.667\n中秋節那個燈已經在了對不對那這個星光大樓以前一定也有消防有空調嘛對不對他說不用再用到錢啊你為什麼要再花那筆錢那第二個更嚴重喔你本人就知道它是一個中繼辦公室對不對人民銀行稅錢要省著用啊你們一分錢都是很重要的啊那你一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花一個三千四百萬錢我們中華文可以用六年我們家是一年半啊啊你是後來那邊沒有幹你現在又簽了一個新的六年對不對\n\n07:36.748 --> 08:03.427\n就是我想我應該這樣講本來國參署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡所以我們是先簽一年半然後等國參署的指示那國參署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二行三等等那因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間所以當然我們就續約對所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛現在人民在心疼的是什麼每一分錢都很重要有人就直接問啊如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢只是一個中繼辦公室你\n\n08:04.407 --> 08:29.198\n裝潢要弄到3450萬嗎?你是不是有落差那個感覺沒有落差你可以更省一點錢而且我剛剛跟你講了你如果從本席一開始諮詢到現在地點不要是那麼貴的地方第二個地方不要那麼大特別是地方你們跟我有爭議我們就把它弄清楚那根本就是租金也不要那麼貴裝潢也不要那麼貴所以我們做個簡單的結論好不好第一個我們當然要有專家我們都很體性在問政我知道\n\n08:29.978 --> 08:32.100\n我叫部長也是理性,我們去把他弄清楚。\n\n09:00.919 --> 09:11.147\n你輸了三億嘛對不對一年要五千萬你如果少掉一成聽我講你如果少掉一成未來六年會後跟張委員應該已經才是對現在會後跟張委員來做說明我們是不是就依照的才是OKOK好謝謝那我們就找\n\n09:18.112 --> 09:42.850\n等一下就坐下來把你這個規則弄清楚請問過專家把它弄清楚好不好然後你已經坐了開箱了如果空間還是太大下禮拜我們就約個時間我找資深的這個設計師找裝潢的人裝潢工程師我們再開箱一次我們是不是先把您剛剛那個表格先釐清好不好您剛剛那個表格先釐清這個才是重點謝謝你等一下就坐下來報告你的工作人員好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.07,"end":14.671,"text":"祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀祝賀"},{"start":23.206,"end":50.61,"text":"你好你好你是IT的天才啦很多人很喜歡你可是有沒有發現這次這個租金和裝潢事情都犯了中路對不對我有開箱的影片因為委員說找一天嘛對對對我看了也開箱完了那為什麼犯中路是不是因為用了很多人民的納稅錢部長你曉不曉得你的數位發展部每位員工辦公的空間跟面積行政院是有規定的嗯"},{"start":51.874,"end":79.824,"text":"你知道他們用多大的空間是有規定的嗎當然這個我們因為主要是素產署跟我們這個民俗處是不是請我們的穆雅來講行政院跟所屬各機關辦公廁所的空間跟面積規劃原則是不是你就直接來你看一下依照這個規劃原則不是只有事務發布所有行政院各機關每位員工個人跟公共空間可以用多大的空間"},{"start":81.499,"end":96.491,"text":"二點四二平你上禮拜自己開箱又做了澄清文你們數位部每個員工用了多大空間你星光大樓你先不要回答我幫你算了我幫你算了星光大樓數位部285個人"},{"start":99.824,"end":116.628,"text":"一個人用了5.8平這是幾倍?一直在講天價豬為什麼會有這個那個部長為什麼會這麼嚴重人民為什麼這麼生氣因為你用了一般人2.5倍的空間對不對所以那天我很生氣問了主計長啊你怎麼會準啊不是就錢的問題啊你的空間為什麼要這麼大呢"},{"start":124.149,"end":127.69,"text":"欸可是裡面的會議室或公共空間你有把它分掉嗎?"},{"start":127.69,"end":147.036,"text":"對啊沒錯啊不是他這個2.42平就是來來來專家在那邊是不是這個是2.42平這個辦法裡面就明定是個人跟公共空間加起來2.42平嘛你為什麼用了5.8平這是所有人現在納稅人最生氣的地方你為什麼變成天價租屋"},{"start":147.97,"end":153.34,"text":"部長我跟你講你如果是遵照這個行政院的規定你只能出兩層樓你現在做幾層"},{"start":157.562,"end":179.64,"text":"報告委員他所謂的那個公共空間的面積是有規定的是沒有錯那是個人那是8平方米8平方公尺那是屬於我算過了你不用解釋這個我算過了問了主計單位跟行政體系問了我們的預算中心了我從民國84年開始追天價租屋"},{"start":180.481,"end":207.878,"text":"二點四坪這就是非常明確的結果你們為什麼要去租這麼多這也是所有後來要浪費那麼多錢最大的原因報告委員那個八平方公尺是指個人的部分只有個人的部分它不含稅宜室不含公共空間所以這個部分還有一個特殊空間所以加了公共空間嘛變成是二點四二坪嘛發現我時間有限這個二點四二並不是加公共空間進去那個部長部長部長"},{"start":209.119,"end":230.933,"text":"這是很明確的事情很明確的事情這所有的部會你回去問主席處他也是這樣跟你講那現在抱歉抱歉所以我本期做個很明確的決定好不好很明確的要求你回去能不能退掉一層樓您剛剛這個計算就已經是把會議是什麼都算在這個2.42裡但是剛剛我們幕僚已經說明不能這樣子計算"},{"start":231.593,"end":239.504,"text":"為什麼不能在 不是2.42就是個人空間叫公共空間包括你的洗手間什麼會議室都在裡面我們蠻確定不是這樣的"},{"start":242.521,"end":261.389,"text":"這是明確規定事情好我們事後再來再找專家來對質好不好這是第一個來來首先我們書面如果部長如果依照這個規定你租三層就是一個問題了那如果確定是這樣子部長我們做個約定如果是這樣的話你們回去重新跟房東重新議約三層退掉一層可不可以"},{"start":261.969,"end":288.802,"text":"您這個辦公室面積我現在細看這個表它裡面寫的是機關人員類型按照類型的個人辦公室面積規劃原則所以您剛剛說是把會議室算進來對加上會議室這上面並沒有這樣子寫這個單位是2.42平好沒有關係我們就是找專家來確認然後第二個我們就做了一個很明確的約定如果是2.42平包括你說的公共空間那你是不是三層樓你就要退掉一層這是一個第二個這是人民婦女是什麼"},{"start":290.191,"end":307.161,"text":"你為什麼要找一個台北市第二高租金第二高的星光大樓去租這個地方叫帝后以前叫帝王欸你不是講說你在辦公的時候只用個筆上去就可以批改嗎只能按上去你在哪邊上班都不是很重要嗎你為什麼浪費人民納稅錢為什麼要租這麼貴的地方"},{"start":307.481,"end":324.919,"text":"首先我們並沒有浪費人民納稅錢以台北市的商辦的每坪的租金來講我們租這個並沒有比較貴為什麼啊你知道行政院在新莊聯合邦道的也有啊你可以像到新莊啊到新北市啊為什麼一定要租一個台北市而且為什麼在市中心為什麼一定要在那麼貴的地方啊"},{"start":325.9,"end":349.953,"text":"一方面當然我們當初是有萬國參署就是有沒有適合我們的地方消費員一點也沒有關係但是國參署是國參署是國參署是說好比現在行二行三要蓋可能未來可能要五年或六年左右所以我們這五六年目前是按照國參署的要求我們來租這樣子一個辦公室但是當然如果他提早給我們別的地方可以用我們也可以提早去啊"},{"start":351.22,"end":375.036,"text":"我們再看另外一個這幾天你自己在開箱嘛我們看一下裝潢好不好裝潢到底貴不貴裝潢會這麼貴的因兩個嘛一個就是你的空間太大所以你才會儲出一個什麼兩萬塊的你空間如果像我講的是小的你只有兩成的話當然單價就變高嘛第二個更離譜的是什麼你開箱完之後有人有不少專家資深的設計師的說我們這個天才啊唐鳳是不是也被詐騙了"},{"start":377.529,"end":391.097,"text":"你比照一下。你自己PO得穩喔。自己開箱喔。你的裝修錢跟裝修貨。你的燈具、空調、消防沒有隔間。這個不是都是一樣的嗎?為什麼要花那麼多的錢?會議室有隔間。可能沒有開箱到會議室的部分。所以你看。燈具、裝修錢本來就有訂啊。對不對?空調跟消防本來應該要有的嘛。"},{"start":400.078,"end":428.825,"text":"我們包含桌上的這個燈具是第二面的這個燈具所以你在一直在強調說只有2萬我會說兩個重點嘛第一點你如果空間沒這麼大這不應該是這個價格錢就省下來幫人民當選你就省下來對不對包括裝潢費用包括租金都是可以省的包括你去租了一個最貴的地方你如果搬到例如說新莊別的地方租金低於平均所以並不是最貴的地方現在在專家你開箱完之後專家出來跟你講如果燈具已經在那裡裝修剪接你給你拖位嘛"},{"start":429.685,"end":455.667,"text":"中秋節那個燈已經在了對不對那這個星光大樓以前一定也有消防有空調嘛對不對他說不用再用到錢啊你為什麼要再花那筆錢那第二個更嚴重喔你本人就知道它是一個中繼辦公室對不對人民銀行稅錢要省著用啊你們一分錢都是很重要的啊那你一個中繼辦公室你為什麼要花一個三千四百萬錢我們中華文可以用六年我們家是一年半啊啊你是後來那邊沒有幹你現在又簽了一個新的六年對不對"},{"start":456.748,"end":483.427,"text":"就是我想我應該這樣講本來國參署就沒有說我們在一年半之後一定可以去哪裡所以我們是先簽一年半然後等國參署的指示那國參署現在指示說我們到行政院旁邊行二行三等等那因為確實那個會需要蓋一段時間所以當然我們就續約對所以不管怎麼樣你就是一個中繼辦公室嘛現在人民在心疼的是什麼每一分錢都很重要有人就直接問啊如果是唐鳳唐部長自己的錢或你家裡的錢只是一個中繼辦公室你"},{"start":484.407,"end":509.198,"text":"裝潢要弄到3450萬嗎?你是不是有落差那個感覺沒有落差你可以更省一點錢而且我剛剛跟你講了你如果從本席一開始諮詢到現在地點不要是那麼貴的地方第二個地方不要那麼大特別是地方你們跟我有爭議我們就把它弄清楚那根本就是租金也不要那麼貴裝潢也不要那麼貴所以我們做個簡單的結論好不好第一個我們當然要有專家我們都很體性在問政我知道"},{"start":509.978,"end":512.1,"text":"我叫部長也是理性,我們去把他弄清楚。"},{"start":540.919,"end":551.147,"text":"你輸了三億嘛對不對一年要五千萬你如果少掉一成聽我講你如果少掉一成未來六年會後跟張委員應該已經才是對現在會後跟張委員來做說明我們是不是就依照的才是OKOK好謝謝那我們就找"},{"start":558.112,"end":582.85,"text":"等一下就坐下來把你這個規則弄清楚請問過專家把它弄清楚好不好然後你已經坐了開箱了如果空間還是太大下禮拜我們就約個時間我找資深的這個設計師找裝潢的人裝潢工程師我們再開箱一次我們是不是先把您剛剛那個表格先釐清好不好您剛剛那個表格先釐清這個才是重點謝謝你等一下就坐下來報告你的工作人員好謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝"}]}}}}