{"id":150156,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150156","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1921827cb04bc4a8d28135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a6cd1a9f1aef5a6a3a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:53:56 - 12:04:58","影片長度":"00:11:02","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":662,"end_time":"2024-03-20T12:04:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T11:53:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":698,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時53分）謝謝主席，部長有請。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，你好。今天跟你討論一個最近我們辦公室遇到的很奇怪狀況，希望這個個案可以好好處理。這是臺柬的一樁良緣，但是好像變成國安危機了，所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：按照臺灣現行的法律，如果外國人跟臺灣人相戀，想要在臺灣結婚的話，要先提供單身證明，證明自己在當地是單身，然後進行所謂的結婚面談，才能辦後續的手續。以這個案例來說，是跟柬埔寨人相戀，柬埔寨不鼓勵他們的人民跟外國人通婚移民，所以通常柬埔寨不會提供明確的單身證明，長期以來臺柬如果有婚姻的問題，都會遇到行政作業上的困難，但是這種事情還是有找到處理的方式，因為實務上還是有結婚的需求，解決的方式就是放寬認定，也就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣，大家也希望臺灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿，所以2019年的時候我們放寬規定，只要能夠提出類似可以證明自己是單身的文件，或者是有載明婚姻狀況是未婚的文件就可以了，柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證，無犯罪紀錄，上面會載明登記婚姻狀況。","我們辦公室在2月中旬接到一個選民的陳情，他的資料非常齊全，該有的文件統統都有，他未來的準配偶，也就是柬埔寨的這位國民，他的無犯罪紀錄，也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白的，而且他的這份文件是有柬埔寨外交部的蓋章證明，所以基本上按照過往大家處理的方式，按法辦事的流程，這個就會被採認，然後趕快來促成這一樁姻緣。但是狀況很奇怪啊，據這個當事人的陳述，外交部不認可這份文件，我們當然就問了貴部的意見，貴部說是內政部戶政司跟移民署不認同這份文件，我們就決定開協調會，因為看起來兩方的說法兜不攏。在2月27號的時候，本辦公室召開協調會，邀請內政部戶政司、移民署及貴部的領事事務局大家坐下來談一談，當天很順利，因為內政部有出示相關的函文，這份函文就是說按照良民證的方式來處理，外交部的領務局也在會議中說同意辦理，那時候我們都在喔，我們覺得這樣很好啊，順利幫選民完成了一樁心願，照理來講應該大家都很高興。可是會後這件事情就沒有下文了，然後我們去詢問貴部的領務局，又說內政部戶政司跟移民署又有意見，我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的，所以我們又問了內政部，內政部說它沒有意見、完全同意啊，領務局後來又說是國安單位有意見，突然變國安危機了，很奇怪啊！最後我們反覆確認，既然是國安單位有意見，我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛，國安局說他們不會去干涉新移民跟外配結婚的問題，所以不會也不曾給予相關的建議。現在羅生門了，我聽到最誇張的版本是領務局跟我們辦公室的助理說，國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件，所以臺柬關係升溫，如果開放認定就觸動這個政策，所以不建議，可是國安局已經否認這件事了，請問現在到底狀況是怎麼樣？是不是公開做一下說明？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員提出這個問題，的確，這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視到底發生什麼樣的狀況，我們外交部這邊如何來解決啦，因為不是我涉及的事，是領務局……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，請那個……"],["吳部長釗燮：我請局長說明。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，請局長說明一下。"],["何局長震寰：謝謝委員，我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出這個個案，2月27號我們已經開過協調會了，就是按照協調會的決議來辦理，相關進展我會再跟委員報告。但是您剛剛提到說後面有局裡面同仁所答復的那一塊，因為那一塊我不清楚為什麼會有這樣的答復，基本上我也澄清一點，柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚……"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊！"],["何局長震寰：沒有針對臺灣，他們基本上就是不鼓勵……"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊，那是它的國策嘛！"],["何局長震寰：對，它的國策。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以這個說法其實很奇怪。"],["何局長震寰：對、對、對，我先澄清這一點。第二個，這個案子內政部是所謂的要證機關，他那邊如果覺得沒有問題，感覺上應該是沒有問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：應該沒有問題喔？"],["何局長震寰：應該沒有問題，我去協調，我去局裡面、跟胡志明辦事處協調之後，我來跟委員做進一步的說明。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，本席順便做一下政策的對話，我當然理解啦，從外交部或是從領務局的角度來說，你可能會擔心多了面談、業務繁重以及等等，如果業務繁重或有困難，那就是增加預算、增編人力，我覺得這個大家都會討論。我們現在臺灣的人口政策亂七八糟嘛，從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題，所以我們勢必慢慢慢慢要認真嚴肅來面對移民的問題。針對移民問題，當然我們有兩岸之間的爭議，但我覺得這件事不分兩岸，就是對岸來的也好，全世界來的也好，我們都要一致而且友善地對待，這是本席一貫的立場，所以我們不希望這些奇奇怪怪的事情再發生，因此藉由質詢的機會提醒一下，既然部長跟領務局長已經充分承諾，那我們就希望這件事情趕快露出曙光，好嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝。","第二個問題想詢問一下外館租金越來越高的問題，外交部113年的預算是290億左右，比112年稍微減少了一部分，人員維持費用略增，但外館租金也略增，當然這個可能有匯率的問題，但因為去年你曾經有講過，外交部會利用各種方式去節省外館的租金支出，舉個例子，比如說以義大利代表處的房舍來說，法拍時就趕快以第二預備金出手買下來，以買代租其實是可以省下租金的，照理來講這應該是正常的方向，如果是這樣的方向，為什麼最近的租金還有上升的情況，是不是可以簡單做一個說明？"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員回報，我們在海外館處的租金都不斷的在上漲當中，雖然說有一些我們的調節，比如像駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的財產，但是有關其他館處的租金的確是在上升當中，而且我們已經預見了今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金，所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠。"],["牛委員煦庭：調漲的幅度還不太夠？這個我就要提醒一下外交部了，就不要怪我講的，既然實際上總體來講，租金也許是因為通貨膨脹，也許是其他因素，例如匯率因素都有上升的狀況，這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金的這件事情，我覺得能免則免啦！好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：那個是因為……"],["牛委員煦庭：那個是個案嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：那個是specifically，有幾個館處我們把它買成我們自己的……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，有幾個館處你可以講，你的個案有成績，我們都肯定啦，好不好，但總體來說，不要讓大家誤解好像有做這件事，如果有做這件事我們就監督嘛，對不對？萬一上漲的時候其實就會有點奇怪了。好，沒有關係，這個我們後面再花一點時間來做對話，麻煩外交部稍微統整一下資料，會後送交我們辦公室跟外交國防委員會，讓他們做一下瞭解，這部分我們後面會再追蹤。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，沒問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：最後一個事情也提醒一下一個個案，當然，大家常常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題，因為事涉我國的外交政策，你決定了就貫徹到底，代價就要大家一起承擔，民主就是這麼回事。但是我們也是針對一些政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟部長來做討論，我舉一個例子，2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交嘛，斷交之後，我們辦公室做了一些研究，當然斷交就斷交了，很難過嘛，我們外交人員有為有守，儘量守，這個我們都只能盡力而為，這個本席願意理解。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務，其實我藉這個機會提醒一下外交部注意，比如說宏都拉斯這個案子，截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款，這個我大概理解啦，從外交的角度來分析，這是用一種變相的方式嘛，我沒有辦法直接金援嘛，金援也不太好看，對不對，所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式，你可以講說它是一種變相的對外發展協助投資的方式來做處理，那我就問一下這個個案，請問現在他們有沒有按期繳款？"],["吳部長釗燮：有。"],["牛委員煦庭：有按期繳款，對不對？這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款，有沒有任何的擔保或抵押？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個我可能要問一下拉美司。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，可以請相關人員做說明，說清楚就好。"],["林副司長美呈：是，跟委員報告，我們跟前邦交國在進行這個貸款的時候，誠如剛剛委員所提到的，我們政府的部分應該說是引介邦交國的政府跟我們的銀行進行商務借貸的方式，所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚，包括爭端解決機制，還有未來如果產生訴訟時的訴訟管轄權問題，也因為這是一個國際上商業實務的借貸契約，所以相關的條文都規範在裡面。"],["牛委員煦庭：不是，你現在有條文、有法源，我理解……"],["林副司長美呈：是，都有契約。"],["牛委員煦庭：但這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品？"],["林副司長美呈：應該這樣講啦，首先我要先說的是，這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府，我們不是簽約主體，我要先跟委員報告。再來就是這個契約裡面一定會有一個政府擔保的責任，如果政府沒有擔保的話，我們就必須要去，如果它到時候沒有完全付息的時候，我們的銀行就會依照上面的爭端解決機制去要求它還款，另外有什麼樣的擔保必須要提出來……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個本席只是做個提醒啦，因為按照我國目前的外交政策，其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高，當然講政府擔保，但斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人，後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩。我只是要做個提醒，這件事情，包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務或者是一些媒合的東西，我要提醒這件事情的風險，既然可能有風險的時候，政府要自己擔起責任，風險不要外部化，不要變成到最後是為了幫外交部維繫邦誼，銀行願意去多做一些額外的服務，然後到最後風險反而讓銀行自己承擔，這件事情政府要有些機制來做避免，好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：我知道。"],["牛委員煦庭：我只是做這個提醒而已啦。"],["吳部長釗燮：到目前為止，也跟委員說明一下，就是說從古早以前，斷交之後，欠款的只有二個國家，那是很早以前的事情了，事後只要對方的政府沒有沒有垮臺，沒有倒的話，這個錢都可以透過法律或者是既定的機制來追回。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我就提醒風險控管要做好啦，好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：目前如果都有按時還款，那當然沒有問題，好不好，但我就是提醒外交部做這個事。好，部長辛苦了，謝謝。"],["主席：這個部分，請外交再提供相關的資訊，就是過去跟現在發生有欠款的部分，再提供給本委員會，好不好？簡單的那種。","接下來請林憶君委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","林楚茵","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳冠廷","賴士葆","牛煦庭","林憶君","李坤城","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","王鴻薇"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150156","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150156","tool":"pyannote","id":"150156-pyannote"},"job_id":"OOGS2CWWduem0s4k","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 623.361, \"end\": 623.461, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 623.461, \"end\": 623.541, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 623.541, \"end\": 623.841, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"欠\", \"start\": 623.841, \"end\": 624.042, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 624.042, \"end\": 624.182, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 624.182, \"end\": 624.262, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 624.262, \"end\": 624.462, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 624.462, \"end\": 624.602, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 624.602, \"end\": 624.622, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 641.914, \"end\": 641.934, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 641.934, \"end\": 641.994, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 641.994, \"end\": 642.014, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 642.014, \"end\": 642.034, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:03,347\n好謝謝主席啊部長有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,301 --> 00:00:30,060\n部長你好今天跟你討論一個我們最近辦公室遇到一個很奇怪的狀況是這個個案希望可以好好處理這是一個台檢的一樁良緣但是好像變成國安危機了所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論是按照台灣現行的法律如果外國人跟台灣相戀想要在台灣結婚的話要先提供單身證明\n\n3\n00:00:31,261 --> 00:00:57,603\n證明自己在當地是單身然後進行所謂的結婚面談才能辦後續的手續那以這個案例來說是跟柬埔寨人相戀那柬埔寨不鼓勵他們跟外國人同婚移民所以通常柬埔寨不會去提供這個明確的單身證明所以長期以來台檢如果有婚姻的問題都會遇到行政作業上的困難那但是這件事情還是有找到處理的方式因為實務上還是有結婚的需求\n\n4\n00:00:58,984 --> 00:01:15,516\n解決方式就是放寬認定就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣希望台灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿所以說2019年是我們放寬規定說你只要能夠類似提出來可以證明自己是單身的文件或者是有宰名婚姻狀況未婚的文件就可以了\n\n5\n00:01:15,896 --> 00:01:35,535\n那柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證無犯罪紀錄上面會有宅民登記這個婚姻狀況那我們辦公室二月中旬接到一個選民的陳情他非常齊全這該有的文件通通都有然後他的配偶未來的準配偶柬埔寨的這個這位柬埔寨的國民他的無犯罪紀錄也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白\n\n6\n00:01:36,215 --> 00:01:55,325\n按照過去的慣例基本上這就是而且他的這份文件是有兼補在外交部的蓋章證明所以說基本上這個按照過往大家處理的一個案法辦事的一個流程就會被採認然後趕快促成這一樁的姻緣但是狀況很奇怪啊外交部據這個當事人的陳述啦外交部說這個不認可這份文件\n\n7\n00:01:55,825 --> 00:01:56,606\n內政部護證師與移民署不認同這份文件\n\n8\n00:02:13,474 --> 00:02:38,042\n當天很順利因為內政部有出示相關的函文就是說這份函文就是講說按照良民證的方式來處理那外交部的領悟局也在會議中我們都在說同意辦理那我們覺得很好啊這順利幫選民完成了一樁心願照理來講應該大家都很高興可是會後這件事就沒有下文了然後我們去詢問貴部的領悟局又說內政部護政司移民署又有意見\n\n9\n00:02:38,962 --> 00:03:07,790\n我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的所以我們又問了這個內政部內政部說我們沒有意見啊我們完全同意啊那禮務局後來又說這個國安單位有意見我只是突然變國安危機啦很奇怪啊那最後我們反覆確認啊我們就見國安單位有意見那我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛國安局講說我們跟我們不會去干涉這個新移民跟外配結婚的問題啊所以也不會也不曾給予相關的建議喔\n\n10\n00:03:09,131 --> 00:03:30,232\n現在羅生們我聽到最誇張的版本是理務局跟我們辦公室的助理講說國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件所以台柬關係升溫如果開放認定就觸動這個政策所以不建議可是國安局已經否認這件事了那請問現在到底狀況怎麼樣是不是不做一下說明\n\n11\n00:03:31,158 --> 00:03:37,024\n非常謝謝委員提出這個問題的確這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視說到底發生什麼樣的狀況那我們外交部這邊如何來解決因為不是我設計的事我請局長好局長說明一下\n\n12\n00:03:48,912 --> 00:04:12,906\n謝謝委員這個我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出來這個個案那2月27號我們已經開過協調會了就是按照協調會的決議來辦理那相關進展我會再跟委員報告但您剛剛提到的那個說後面有局裡面同仁所答覆的那一塊因為那一塊我不清楚的這個會有這樣的答覆基本上我也澄清一點\n\n13\n00:04:14,247 --> 00:04:42,428\n柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚沒有針對台灣他是基本上就是對那是他的國策對所以這說法其實是奇怪的對我先澄清這一點第二個這個案子內政部那邊因為他是所謂的要政機關他那邊如果覺得沒有問題應該感覺上是沒有問題應該沒有問題我去協調我去局裡面我們再跟這個胡志明辦事處協調之後我來跟委員做一個進一步的說明\n\n14\n00:04:43,449 --> 00:04:45,572\n臺灣人口政策亂七八糟從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題所以我們勢必\n\n15\n00:05:02,892 --> 00:05:02,932\n主席\n\n16\n00:05:24,404 --> 00:05:27,446\n外交部113年的預算是290億左右比這個112年稍微減少了一部分人員維持費用略增\n\n17\n00:05:40,675 --> 00:06:05,552\n外管租金也略增那當然啦這個可能有匯率的問題喔那因為去年喔你曾經有講嘛就外交部會利用各種方式去節省外管的租金支出嘛以舉個例子比如說以那個義大利代表處的房舍那種法拍就趕快第二預備金出手買下來就以買代租其實是可以省下租金的那照理來講這應該是正常的方向那如果是這樣的方向的時候那為什麼最近的租金按照這個還有上升的情況是不是可以簡單做個說明\n\n18\n00:06:07,297 --> 00:06:29,949\n跟委員回報就是說在海外的我們的管處的這個租金是都不斷的在上漲當中那雖然說有一些我們的調節比如像那個駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的那個財產那但是有關其他的這個管處的這個租金的確是在上升當中而且我們已經預見了\n\n19\n00:06:32,271 --> 00:06:57,112\n預見今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠調漲的幅度還不太夠這我就提醒一下外交部就不要怪我講了既然實際上總體來講租金也許是通貨膨脹也許是其他因素匯率因素都有上升的狀況那這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金這件事情我覺得能免則免好不好那個是個案嘛\n\n20\n00:06:57,492 --> 00:06:58,833\n最後一個事情提醒一下個案當然大家\n\n21\n00:07:25,254 --> 00:07:42,830\n常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題當然試射我國的外交政策那你決定了就貫徹到底那代價大家就要一起承擔民主就是這麼回事但是我們也是要針對一些這個政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟這個部長來做討論我舉個例子2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交\n\n22\n00:07:48,075 --> 00:08:06,163\n斷交之後我們辦公室做了一些研究當然斷交就斷交很難過我們盡量外交人員有為有守盡量守這我們都只能盡力而為這我本期願意理解好不好但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務其實我借這個機會提醒一下外交部注意比如說宏都拉斯這個案子截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款\n\n23\n00:08:09,370 --> 00:08:38,053\n銀行貸款那這個我大概理解啦從外交的角度來分析這是用一種變相的方式嘛我沒有辦法直接晶圓嘛晶圓也不太好看對不對所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式你可以講出來是一種變相的對外發展投資對外發展協助投資的這樣的一種方式來做處理那我就問一下這個個案現在他們有沒有按期繳款有有按期繳款對不對這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款他有沒有任何的擔保或抵押\n\n24\n00:08:39,175 --> 00:08:40,700\n沒關係,可以請相關的人員做說明,清楚就好。\n\n25\n00:08:43,809 --> 00:09:07,403\n市政委員報告我們跟邦交國前邦交國在進行這個商務這個貸款的時候陳如剛委員您剛提到的我們都是政府的部分我們是應該說引介邦交國的政府跟我們的這個銀行進行這個商務借貸的方式所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚包括說他的爭端解決機制還有他未來如果產生訴訟的時候訴訟管轄權的問題\n\n26\n00:09:10,285 --> 00:09:11,046\n這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品?\n\n27\n00:09:24,517 --> 00:09:53,357\n他應該是這樣講首先我要先說這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府我們不是簽約主體我要先跟委員報告再來是他這個契約裡面他一定會有一個政府擔保的這個責任所以如果政府沒有擔保的話我們就必須要去如果他到時候沒有完全的複習的時候我們的銀行就會依照他上面的爭端解決機制去要求\n\n28\n00:09:53,977 --> 00:10:21,540\n要求他還要還款另外呢有什麼樣的擔保這本期只是做提醒啦因為按照我國目前的外交政策其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高那當然講政府擔保就斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩我只是要做提醒喔就這一件事情包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務嘛或者是一些媒合的東西我要提醒這件事情的風險啦既然有可能有風險的時候那政府要自己擔起責任風險不要外部化\n\n29\n00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,622\n到目前為止也跟委員說明一下就是說從古早以前斷交之後欠款的只有兩個國家\n\n30\n00:10:41,914 --> 00:10:42,034\n請外交部發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n210\t3347\t好謝謝主席啊部長有請部長\n9301\t30060\t部長你好今天跟你討論一個我們最近辦公室遇到一個很奇怪的狀況是這個個案希望可以好好處理這是一個台檢的一樁良緣但是好像變成國安危機了所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論是按照台灣現行的法律如果外國人跟台灣相戀想要在台灣結婚的話要先提供單身證明\n31261\t57603\t證明自己在當地是單身然後進行所謂的結婚面談才能辦後續的手續那以這個案例來說是跟柬埔寨人相戀那柬埔寨不鼓勵他們跟外國人同婚移民所以通常柬埔寨不會去提供這個明確的單身證明所以長期以來台檢如果有婚姻的問題都會遇到行政作業上的困難那但是這件事情還是有找到處理的方式因為實務上還是有結婚的需求\n58984\t75516\t解決方式就是放寬認定就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣希望台灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿所以說2019年是我們放寬規定說你只要能夠類似提出來可以證明自己是單身的文件或者是有宰名婚姻狀況未婚的文件就可以了\n75896\t95535\t那柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證無犯罪紀錄上面會有宅民登記這個婚姻狀況那我們辦公室二月中旬接到一個選民的陳情他非常齊全這該有的文件通通都有然後他的配偶未來的準配偶柬埔寨的這個這位柬埔寨的國民他的無犯罪紀錄也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白\n96215\t115325\t按照過去的慣例基本上這就是而且他的這份文件是有兼補在外交部的蓋章證明所以說基本上這個按照過往大家處理的一個案法辦事的一個流程就會被採認然後趕快促成這一樁的姻緣但是狀況很奇怪啊外交部據這個當事人的陳述啦外交部說這個不認可這份文件\n115825\t116606\t內政部護證師與移民署不認同這份文件\n133474\t158042\t當天很順利因為內政部有出示相關的函文就是說這份函文就是講說按照良民證的方式來處理那外交部的領悟局也在會議中我們都在說同意辦理那我們覺得很好啊這順利幫選民完成了一樁心願照理來講應該大家都很高興可是會後這件事就沒有下文了然後我們去詢問貴部的領悟局又說內政部護政司移民署又有意見\n158962\t187790\t我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的所以我們又問了這個內政部內政部說我們沒有意見啊我們完全同意啊那禮務局後來又說這個國安單位有意見我只是突然變國安危機啦很奇怪啊那最後我們反覆確認啊我們就見國安單位有意見那我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛國安局講說我們跟我們不會去干涉這個新移民跟外配結婚的問題啊所以也不會也不曾給予相關的建議喔\n189131\t210232\t現在羅生們我聽到最誇張的版本是理務局跟我們辦公室的助理講說國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件所以台柬關係升溫如果開放認定就觸動這個政策所以不建議可是國安局已經否認這件事了那請問現在到底狀況怎麼樣是不是不做一下說明\n211158\t217024\t非常謝謝委員提出這個問題的確這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視說到底發生什麼樣的狀況那我們外交部這邊如何來解決因為不是我設計的事我請局長好 局長說明一下\n228912\t252906\t謝謝委員 這個我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出來這個個案那2月27號我們已經開過協調會了就是按照協調會的決議來辦理那相關進展我會再跟委員報告但您剛剛提到的那個說後面有局裡面同仁所答覆的那一塊因為那一塊我不清楚的這個會有這樣的答覆基本上我也澄清一點\n254247\t282428\t柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚沒有針對台灣他是基本上就是對那是他的國策對所以這說法其實是奇怪的對我先澄清這一點第二個這個案子內政部那邊因為他是所謂的要政機關他那邊如果覺得沒有問題應該感覺上是沒有問題應該沒有問題我去協調我去局裡面我們再跟這個胡志明辦事處協調之後我來跟委員做一個進一步的說明\n283449\t285572\t臺灣人口政策亂七八糟從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題所以我們勢必\n302892\t302932\t主席\n324404\t327446\t外交部113年的預算是290億左右比這個112年稍微減少了一部分人員維持費用略增\n340675\t365552\t外管租金也略增那當然啦 這個可能有匯率的問題喔那因為去年喔 你曾經有講嘛就外交部會利用各種方式去節省外管的租金支出嘛以 舉個例子 比如說以那個義大利代表處的房舍那種法拍就趕快第二預備金出手買下來就以買代租其實是可以省下租金的那照理來講這應該是正常的方向那如果是這樣的方向的時候那為什麼最近的租金按照這個還有上升的情況是不是可以簡單做個說明\n367297\t389949\t跟委員回報就是說在海外的我們的管處的這個租金是都不斷的在上漲當中那雖然說有一些我們的調節比如像那個駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的那個財產那但是有關其他的這個管處的這個租金的確是在上升當中而且我們已經預見了\n392271\t417112\t預見今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠調漲的幅度還不太夠這我就提醒一下外交部就不要怪我講了既然實際上總體來講租金也許是通貨膨脹也許是其他因素匯率因素都有上升的狀況那這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金這件事情我覺得能免則免好不好那個是個案嘛\n417492\t418833\t最後一個事情提醒一下個案當然大家\n445254\t462830\t常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題當然試射我國的外交政策那你決定了就貫徹到底那代價大家就要一起承擔民主就是這麼回事但是我們也是要針對一些這個政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟這個部長來做討論我舉個例子2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交\n468075\t486163\t斷交之後我們辦公室做了一些研究當然斷交就斷交很難過我們盡量外交人員有為有守盡量守這我們都只能盡力而為這我本期願意理解好不好但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務其實我借這個機會提醒一下外交部注意比如說宏都拉斯這個案子截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款\n489370\t518053\t銀行貸款那這個我大概理解啦從外交的角度來分析這是用一種變相的方式嘛我沒有辦法直接晶圓嘛晶圓也不太好看對不對所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式你可以講出來是一種變相的對外發展投資對外發展協助投資的這樣的一種方式來做處理那我就問一下這個個案現在他們有沒有按期繳款有有按期繳款對不對這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款他有沒有任何的擔保或抵押\n519175\t520700\t沒關係,可以請相關的人員做說明,清楚就好。\n523809\t547403\t市政委員報告我們跟邦交國前邦交國在進行這個商務這個貸款的時候陳如剛委員您剛提到的我們都是政府的部分我們是應該說引介邦交國的政府跟我們的這個銀行進行這個商務借貸的方式所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚包括說他的爭端解決機制還有他未來如果產生訴訟的時候訴訟管轄權的問題\n550285\t551046\t這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品?\n564517\t593357\t他應該是這樣講首先我要先說這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府我們不是簽約主體我要先跟委員報告再來是他這個契約裡面他一定會有一個政府擔保的這個責任所以如果政府沒有擔保的話我們就必須要去如果他到時候沒有完全的複習的時候我們的銀行就會依照他上面的爭端解決機制去要求\n593977\t621540\t要求他還要還款另外呢有什麼樣的擔保這本期只是做提醒啦因為按照我國目前的外交政策其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高那當然講政府擔保就斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩我只是要做提醒喔就這一件事情包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務嘛或者是一些媒合的東西我要提醒這件事情的風險啦既然有可能有風險的時候那政府要自己擔起責任風險不要外部化\n621800\t624622\t到目前為止也跟委員說明一下就是說從古早以前斷交之後欠款的只有兩個國家\n641914\t642034\t請外交部發言\n","txt":"好謝謝主席啊部長有請部長\n部長你好今天跟你討論一個我們最近辦公室遇到一個很奇怪的狀況是這個個案希望可以好好處理這是一個台檢的一樁良緣但是好像變成國安危機了所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論是按照台灣現行的法律如果外國人跟台灣相戀想要在台灣結婚的話要先提供單身證明\n證明自己在當地是單身然後進行所謂的結婚面談才能辦後續的手續那以這個案例來說是跟柬埔寨人相戀那柬埔寨不鼓勵他們跟外國人同婚移民所以通常柬埔寨不會去提供這個明確的單身證明所以長期以來台檢如果有婚姻的問題都會遇到行政作業上的困難那但是這件事情還是有找到處理的方式因為實務上還是有結婚的需求\n解決方式就是放寬認定就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣希望台灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿所以說2019年是我們放寬規定說你只要能夠類似提出來可以證明自己是單身的文件或者是有宰名婚姻狀況未婚的文件就可以了\n那柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證無犯罪紀錄上面會有宅民登記這個婚姻狀況那我們辦公室二月中旬接到一個選民的陳情他非常齊全這該有的文件通通都有然後他的配偶未來的準配偶柬埔寨的這個這位柬埔寨的國民他的無犯罪紀錄也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白\n按照過去的慣例基本上這就是而且他的這份文件是有兼補在外交部的蓋章證明所以說基本上這個按照過往大家處理的一個案法辦事的一個流程就會被採認然後趕快促成這一樁的姻緣但是狀況很奇怪啊外交部據這個當事人的陳述啦外交部說這個不認可這份文件\n內政部護證師與移民署不認同這份文件\n當天很順利因為內政部有出示相關的函文就是說這份函文就是講說按照良民證的方式來處理那外交部的領悟局也在會議中我們都在說同意辦理那我們覺得很好啊這順利幫選民完成了一樁心願照理來講應該大家都很高興可是會後這件事就沒有下文了然後我們去詢問貴部的領悟局又說內政部護政司移民署又有意見\n我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的所以我們又問了這個內政部內政部說我們沒有意見啊我們完全同意啊那禮務局後來又說這個國安單位有意見我只是突然變國安危機啦很奇怪啊那最後我們反覆確認啊我們就見國安單位有意見那我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛國安局講說我們跟我們不會去干涉這個新移民跟外配結婚的問題啊所以也不會也不曾給予相關的建議喔\n現在羅生們我聽到最誇張的版本是理務局跟我們辦公室的助理講說國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件所以台柬關係升溫如果開放認定就觸動這個政策所以不建議可是國安局已經否認這件事了那請問現在到底狀況怎麼樣是不是不做一下說明\n非常謝謝委員提出這個問題的確這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視說到底發生什麼樣的狀況那我們外交部這邊如何來解決因為不是我設計的事我請局長好 局長說明一下\n謝謝委員 這個我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出來這個個案那2月27號我們已經開過協調會了就是按照協調會的決議來辦理那相關進展我會再跟委員報告但您剛剛提到的那個說後面有局裡面同仁所答覆的那一塊因為那一塊我不清楚的這個會有這樣的答覆基本上我也澄清一點\n柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚沒有針對台灣他是基本上就是對那是他的國策對所以這說法其實是奇怪的對我先澄清這一點第二個這個案子內政部那邊因為他是所謂的要政機關他那邊如果覺得沒有問題應該感覺上是沒有問題應該沒有問題我去協調我去局裡面我們再跟這個胡志明辦事處協調之後我來跟委員做一個進一步的說明\n臺灣人口政策亂七八糟從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題所以我們勢必\n主席\n外交部113年的預算是290億左右比這個112年稍微減少了一部分人員維持費用略增\n外管租金也略增那當然啦 這個可能有匯率的問題喔那因為去年喔 你曾經有講嘛就外交部會利用各種方式去節省外管的租金支出嘛以 舉個例子 比如說以那個義大利代表處的房舍那種法拍就趕快第二預備金出手買下來就以買代租其實是可以省下租金的那照理來講這應該是正常的方向那如果是這樣的方向的時候那為什麼最近的租金按照這個還有上升的情況是不是可以簡單做個說明\n跟委員回報就是說在海外的我們的管處的這個租金是都不斷的在上漲當中那雖然說有一些我們的調節比如像那個駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的那個財產那但是有關其他的這個管處的這個租金的確是在上升當中而且我們已經預見了\n預見今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠調漲的幅度還不太夠這我就提醒一下外交部就不要怪我講了既然實際上總體來講租金也許是通貨膨脹也許是其他因素匯率因素都有上升的狀況那這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金這件事情我覺得能免則免好不好那個是個案嘛\n最後一個事情提醒一下個案當然大家\n常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題當然試射我國的外交政策那你決定了就貫徹到底那代價大家就要一起承擔民主就是這麼回事但是我們也是要針對一些這個政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟這個部長來做討論我舉個例子2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交\n斷交之後我們辦公室做了一些研究當然斷交就斷交很難過我們盡量外交人員有為有守盡量守這我們都只能盡力而為這我本期願意理解好不好但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務其實我借這個機會提醒一下外交部注意比如說宏都拉斯這個案子截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款\n銀行貸款那這個我大概理解啦從外交的角度來分析這是用一種變相的方式嘛我沒有辦法直接晶圓嘛晶圓也不太好看對不對所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式你可以講出來是一種變相的對外發展投資對外發展協助投資的這樣的一種方式來做處理那我就問一下這個個案現在他們有沒有按期繳款有有按期繳款對不對這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款他有沒有任何的擔保或抵押\n沒關係,可以請相關的人員做說明,清楚就好。\n市政委員報告我們跟邦交國前邦交國在進行這個商務這個貸款的時候陳如剛委員您剛提到的我們都是政府的部分我們是應該說引介邦交國的政府跟我們的這個銀行進行這個商務借貸的方式所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚包括說他的爭端解決機制還有他未來如果產生訴訟的時候訴訟管轄權的問題\n這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品?\n他應該是這樣講首先我要先說這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府我們不是簽約主體我要先跟委員報告再來是他這個契約裡面他一定會有一個政府擔保的這個責任所以如果政府沒有擔保的話我們就必須要去如果他到時候沒有完全的複習的時候我們的銀行就會依照他上面的爭端解決機制去要求\n要求他還要還款另外呢有什麼樣的擔保這本期只是做提醒啦因為按照我國目前的外交政策其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高那當然講政府擔保就斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩我只是要做提醒喔就這一件事情包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務嘛或者是一些媒合的東西我要提醒這件事情的風險啦既然有可能有風險的時候那政府要自己擔起責任風險不要外部化\n到目前為止也跟委員說明一下就是說從古早以前斷交之後欠款的只有兩個國家\n請外交部發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.210 --> 00:03.347\n好謝謝主席啊部長有請部長\n\n00:09.301 --> 00:30.060\n部長你好今天跟你討論一個我們最近辦公室遇到一個很奇怪的狀況是這個個案希望可以好好處理這是一個台檢的一樁良緣但是好像變成國安危機了所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論是按照台灣現行的法律如果外國人跟台灣相戀想要在台灣結婚的話要先提供單身證明\n\n00:31.261 --> 00:57.603\n證明自己在當地是單身然後進行所謂的結婚面談才能辦後續的手續那以這個案例來說是跟柬埔寨人相戀那柬埔寨不鼓勵他們跟外國人同婚移民所以通常柬埔寨不會去提供這個明確的單身證明所以長期以來台檢如果有婚姻的問題都會遇到行政作業上的困難那但是這件事情還是有找到處理的方式因為實務上還是有結婚的需求\n\n00:58.984 --> 01:15.516\n解決方式就是放寬認定就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣希望台灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿所以說2019年是我們放寬規定說你只要能夠類似提出來可以證明自己是單身的文件或者是有宰名婚姻狀況未婚的文件就可以了\n\n01:15.896 --> 01:35.535\n那柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證無犯罪紀錄上面會有宅民登記這個婚姻狀況那我們辦公室二月中旬接到一個選民的陳情他非常齊全這該有的文件通通都有然後他的配偶未來的準配偶柬埔寨的這個這位柬埔寨的國民他的無犯罪紀錄也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白\n\n01:36.215 --> 01:55.325\n按照過去的慣例基本上這就是而且他的這份文件是有兼補在外交部的蓋章證明所以說基本上這個按照過往大家處理的一個案法辦事的一個流程就會被採認然後趕快促成這一樁的姻緣但是狀況很奇怪啊外交部據這個當事人的陳述啦外交部說這個不認可這份文件\n\n01:55.825 --> 01:56.606\n內政部護證師與移民署不認同這份文件\n\n02:13.474 --> 02:38.042\n當天很順利因為內政部有出示相關的函文就是說這份函文就是講說按照良民證的方式來處理那外交部的領悟局也在會議中我們都在說同意辦理那我們覺得很好啊這順利幫選民完成了一樁心願照理來講應該大家都很高興可是會後這件事就沒有下文了然後我們去詢問貴部的領悟局又說內政部護政司移民署又有意見\n\n02:38.962 --> 03:07.790\n我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的所以我們又問了這個內政部內政部說我們沒有意見啊我們完全同意啊那禮務局後來又說這個國安單位有意見我只是突然變國安危機啦很奇怪啊那最後我們反覆確認啊我們就見國安單位有意見那我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛國安局講說我們跟我們不會去干涉這個新移民跟外配結婚的問題啊所以也不會也不曾給予相關的建議喔\n\n03:09.131 --> 03:30.232\n現在羅生們我聽到最誇張的版本是理務局跟我們辦公室的助理講說國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件所以台柬關係升溫如果開放認定就觸動這個政策所以不建議可是國安局已經否認這件事了那請問現在到底狀況怎麼樣是不是不做一下說明\n\n03:31.158 --> 03:37.024\n非常謝謝委員提出這個問題的確這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視說到底發生什麼樣的狀況那我們外交部這邊如何來解決因為不是我設計的事我請局長好局長說明一下\n\n03:48.912 --> 04:12.906\n謝謝委員這個我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出來這個個案那2月27號我們已經開過協調會了就是按照協調會的決議來辦理那相關進展我會再跟委員報告但您剛剛提到的那個說後面有局裡面同仁所答覆的那一塊因為那一塊我不清楚的這個會有這樣的答覆基本上我也澄清一點\n\n04:14.247 --> 04:42.428\n柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚沒有針對台灣他是基本上就是對那是他的國策對所以這說法其實是奇怪的對我先澄清這一點第二個這個案子內政部那邊因為他是所謂的要政機關他那邊如果覺得沒有問題應該感覺上是沒有問題應該沒有問題我去協調我去局裡面我們再跟這個胡志明辦事處協調之後我來跟委員做一個進一步的說明\n\n04:43.449 --> 04:45.572\n臺灣人口政策亂七八糟從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題所以我們勢必\n\n05:02.892 --> 05:02.932\n主席\n\n05:24.404 --> 05:27.446\n外交部113年的預算是290億左右比這個112年稍微減少了一部分人員維持費用略增\n\n05:40.675 --> 06:05.552\n外管租金也略增那當然啦這個可能有匯率的問題喔那因為去年喔你曾經有講嘛就外交部會利用各種方式去節省外管的租金支出嘛以舉個例子比如說以那個義大利代表處的房舍那種法拍就趕快第二預備金出手買下來就以買代租其實是可以省下租金的那照理來講這應該是正常的方向那如果是這樣的方向的時候那為什麼最近的租金按照這個還有上升的情況是不是可以簡單做個說明\n\n06:07.297 --> 06:29.949\n跟委員回報就是說在海外的我們的管處的這個租金是都不斷的在上漲當中那雖然說有一些我們的調節比如像那個駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的那個財產那但是有關其他的這個管處的這個租金的確是在上升當中而且我們已經預見了\n\n06:32.271 --> 06:57.112\n預見今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠調漲的幅度還不太夠這我就提醒一下外交部就不要怪我講了既然實際上總體來講租金也許是通貨膨脹也許是其他因素匯率因素都有上升的狀況那這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金這件事情我覺得能免則免好不好那個是個案嘛\n\n06:57.492 --> 06:58.833\n最後一個事情提醒一下個案當然大家\n\n07:25.254 --> 07:42.830\n常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題當然試射我國的外交政策那你決定了就貫徹到底那代價大家就要一起承擔民主就是這麼回事但是我們也是要針對一些這個政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟這個部長來做討論我舉個例子2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交\n\n07:48.075 --> 08:06.163\n斷交之後我們辦公室做了一些研究當然斷交就斷交很難過我們盡量外交人員有為有守盡量守這我們都只能盡力而為這我本期願意理解好不好但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務其實我借這個機會提醒一下外交部注意比如說宏都拉斯這個案子截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款\n\n08:09.370 --> 08:38.053\n銀行貸款那這個我大概理解啦從外交的角度來分析這是用一種變相的方式嘛我沒有辦法直接晶圓嘛晶圓也不太好看對不對所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式你可以講出來是一種變相的對外發展投資對外發展協助投資的這樣的一種方式來做處理那我就問一下這個個案現在他們有沒有按期繳款有有按期繳款對不對這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款他有沒有任何的擔保或抵押\n\n08:39.175 --> 08:40.700\n沒關係,可以請相關的人員做說明,清楚就好。\n\n08:43.809 --> 09:07.403\n市政委員報告我們跟邦交國前邦交國在進行這個商務這個貸款的時候陳如剛委員您剛提到的我們都是政府的部分我們是應該說引介邦交國的政府跟我們的這個銀行進行這個商務借貸的方式所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚包括說他的爭端解決機制還有他未來如果產生訴訟的時候訴訟管轄權的問題\n\n09:10.285 --> 09:11.046\n這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品?\n\n09:24.517 --> 09:53.357\n他應該是這樣講首先我要先說這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府我們不是簽約主體我要先跟委員報告再來是他這個契約裡面他一定會有一個政府擔保的這個責任所以如果政府沒有擔保的話我們就必須要去如果他到時候沒有完全的複習的時候我們的銀行就會依照他上面的爭端解決機制去要求\n\n09:53.977 --> 10:21.540\n要求他還要還款另外呢有什麼樣的擔保這本期只是做提醒啦因為按照我國目前的外交政策其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高那當然講政府擔保就斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩我只是要做提醒喔就這一件事情包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務嘛或者是一些媒合的東西我要提醒這件事情的風險啦既然有可能有風險的時候那政府要自己擔起責任風險不要外部化\n\n10:21.800 --> 10:24.622\n到目前為止也跟委員說明一下就是說從古早以前斷交之後欠款的只有兩個國家\n\n10:41.914 --> 10:42.034\n請外交部發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.21,"end":3.347,"text":"好謝謝主席啊部長有請部長"},{"start":9.301,"end":30.06,"text":"部長你好今天跟你討論一個我們最近辦公室遇到一個很奇怪的狀況是這個個案希望可以好好處理這是一個台檢的一樁良緣但是好像變成國安危機了所以借用這個時間來跟部長做一下討論是按照台灣現行的法律如果外國人跟台灣相戀想要在台灣結婚的話要先提供單身證明"},{"start":31.261,"end":57.603,"text":"證明自己在當地是單身然後進行所謂的結婚面談才能辦後續的手續那以這個案例來說是跟柬埔寨人相戀那柬埔寨不鼓勵他們跟外國人同婚移民所以通常柬埔寨不會去提供這個明確的單身證明所以長期以來台檢如果有婚姻的問題都會遇到行政作業上的困難那但是這件事情還是有找到處理的方式因為實務上還是有結婚的需求"},{"start":58.984,"end":75.516,"text":"解決方式就是放寬認定就是說我們都希望可以促成良緣希望台灣年輕人可以找到好的歸宿所以說2019年是我們放寬規定說你只要能夠類似提出來可以證明自己是單身的文件或者是有宰名婚姻狀況未婚的文件就可以了"},{"start":75.896,"end":95.535,"text":"那柬埔寨就是所謂的良民證無犯罪紀錄上面會有宅民登記這個婚姻狀況那我們辦公室二月中旬接到一個選民的陳情他非常齊全這該有的文件通通都有然後他的配偶未來的準配偶柬埔寨的這個這位柬埔寨的國民他的無犯罪紀錄也就是良民證上面的配偶欄就是空白"},{"start":96.215,"end":115.325,"text":"按照過去的慣例基本上這就是而且他的這份文件是有兼補在外交部的蓋章證明所以說基本上這個按照過往大家處理的一個案法辦事的一個流程就會被採認然後趕快促成這一樁的姻緣但是狀況很奇怪啊外交部據這個當事人的陳述啦外交部說這個不認可這份文件"},{"start":115.825,"end":116.606,"text":"內政部護證師與移民署不認同這份文件"},{"start":133.474,"end":158.042,"text":"當天很順利因為內政部有出示相關的函文就是說這份函文就是講說按照良民證的方式來處理那外交部的領悟局也在會議中我們都在說同意辦理那我們覺得很好啊這順利幫選民完成了一樁心願照理來講應該大家都很高興可是會後這件事就沒有下文了然後我們去詢問貴部的領悟局又說內政部護政司移民署又有意見"},{"start":158.962,"end":187.79,"text":"我心裡想說哪有這樣子大家開會講話不算話的所以我們又問了這個內政部內政部說我們沒有意見啊我們完全同意啊那禮務局後來又說這個國安單位有意見我只是突然變國安危機啦很奇怪啊那最後我們反覆確認啊我們就見國安單位有意見那我們當然跟國安單位確認嘛國安局講說我們跟我們不會去干涉這個新移民跟外配結婚的問題啊所以也不會也不曾給予相關的建議喔"},{"start":189.131,"end":210.232,"text":"現在羅生們我聽到最誇張的版本是理務局跟我們辦公室的助理講說國安局說因為柬埔寨發生晚安小雞事件所以台柬關係升溫如果開放認定就觸動這個政策所以不建議可是國安局已經否認這件事了那請問現在到底狀況怎麼樣是不是不做一下說明"},{"start":211.158,"end":217.024,"text":"非常謝謝委員提出這個問題的確這個個案聽起來是我們這邊必須要去檢視說到底發生什麼樣的狀況那我們外交部這邊如何來解決因為不是我設計的事我請局長好 局長說明一下"},{"start":228.912,"end":252.906,"text":"謝謝委員 這個我有看到今天的媒體有刊登出來這個個案那2月27號我們已經開過協調會了就是按照協調會的決議來辦理那相關進展我會再跟委員報告但您剛剛提到的那個說後面有局裡面同仁所答覆的那一塊因為那一塊我不清楚的這個會有這樣的答覆基本上我也澄清一點"},{"start":254.247,"end":282.428,"text":"柬埔寨是不鼓勵他們的國人跟外國人結婚沒有針對台灣他是基本上就是對那是他的國策對所以這說法其實是奇怪的對我先澄清這一點第二個這個案子內政部那邊因為他是所謂的要政機關他那邊如果覺得沒有問題應該感覺上是沒有問題應該沒有問題我去協調我去局裡面我們再跟這個胡志明辦事處協調之後我來跟委員做一個進一步的說明"},{"start":283.449,"end":285.572,"text":"臺灣人口政策亂七八糟從來也沒有辦法解決現在的問題所以我們勢必"},{"start":302.892,"end":302.932,"text":"主席"},{"start":324.404,"end":327.446,"text":"外交部113年的預算是290億左右比這個112年稍微減少了一部分人員維持費用略增"},{"start":340.675,"end":365.552,"text":"外管租金也略增那當然啦 這個可能有匯率的問題喔那因為去年喔 你曾經有講嘛就外交部會利用各種方式去節省外管的租金支出嘛以 舉個例子 比如說以那個義大利代表處的房舍那種法拍就趕快第二預備金出手買下來就以買代租其實是可以省下租金的那照理來講這應該是正常的方向那如果是這樣的方向的時候那為什麼最近的租金按照這個還有上升的情況是不是可以簡單做個說明"},{"start":367.297,"end":389.949,"text":"跟委員回報就是說在海外的我們的管處的這個租金是都不斷的在上漲當中那雖然說有一些我們的調節比如像那個駐義大利代表處已經轉換成我們自己的那個財產那但是有關其他的這個管處的這個租金的確是在上升當中而且我們已經預見了"},{"start":392.271,"end":417.112,"text":"預見今年的經費可能不夠來付我們相關的租金所以調漲可能那個幅度還不太夠調漲的幅度還不太夠這我就提醒一下外交部就不要怪我講了既然實際上總體來講租金也許是通貨膨脹也許是其他因素匯率因素都有上升的狀況那這種開記者會宣布節省大筆租金這件事情我覺得能免則免好不好那個是個案嘛"},{"start":417.492,"end":418.833,"text":"最後一個事情提醒一下個案當然大家"},{"start":445.254,"end":462.83,"text":"常在外交部的業務報告裡面討論邦交、斷交等等的問題當然試射我國的外交政策那你決定了就貫徹到底那代價大家就要一起承擔民主就是這麼回事但是我們也是要針對一些這個政策上的執行細節有一些問題要跟這個部長來做討論我舉個例子2023年的3月26號宏都拉斯跟我們斷交"},{"start":468.075,"end":486.163,"text":"斷交之後我們辦公室做了一些研究當然斷交就斷交很難過我們盡量外交人員有為有守盡量守這我們都只能盡力而為這我本期願意理解好不好但是斷交完之後的一些後續事務其實我借這個機會提醒一下外交部注意比如說宏都拉斯這個案子截至目前為止還欠我國4.4億美元的銀行貸款"},{"start":489.37,"end":518.053,"text":"銀行貸款那這個我大概理解啦從外交的角度來分析這是用一種變相的方式嘛我沒有辦法直接晶圓嘛晶圓也不太好看對不對所以透過媒合銀行借貸的方式你可以講出來是一種變相的對外發展投資對外發展協助投資的這樣的一種方式來做處理那我就問一下這個個案現在他們有沒有按期繳款有有按期繳款對不對這一筆4.4億美元的大額貸款他有沒有任何的擔保或抵押"},{"start":519.175,"end":520.7,"text":"沒關係,可以請相關的人員做說明,清楚就好。"},{"start":523.809,"end":547.403,"text":"市政委員報告我們跟邦交國前邦交國在進行這個商務這個貸款的時候陳如剛委員您剛提到的我們都是政府的部分我們是應該說引介邦交國的政府跟我們的這個銀行進行這個商務借貸的方式所以在這個商務契約裡面會講得非常清楚包括說他的爭端解決機制還有他未來如果產生訴訟的時候訴訟管轄權的問題"},{"start":550.285,"end":551.046,"text":"這個案子有沒有具體的擔保或者是抵押品?"},{"start":564.517,"end":593.357,"text":"他應該是這樣講首先我要先說這個契約的雙方是我們的銀行以及對方的政府我們不是簽約主體我要先跟委員報告再來是他這個契約裡面他一定會有一個政府擔保的這個責任所以如果政府沒有擔保的話我們就必須要去如果他到時候沒有完全的複習的時候我們的銀行就會依照他上面的爭端解決機制去要求"},{"start":593.977,"end":621.54,"text":"要求他還要還款另外呢有什麼樣的擔保這本期只是做提醒啦因為按照我國目前的外交政策其實大家都會講客觀存在的問題是斷交風險很高那當然講政府擔保就斷交之後人家拍拍屁股走人後面衍生的爭端可能會很麻煩我只是要做提醒喔就這一件事情包含前面基於維持邦誼當然會做一些服務嘛或者是一些媒合的東西我要提醒這件事情的風險啦既然有可能有風險的時候那政府要自己擔起責任風險不要外部化"},{"start":621.8,"end":624.622,"text":"到目前為止也跟委員說明一下就是說從古早以前斷交之後欠款的只有兩個國家"},{"start":641.914,"end":642.034,"text":"請外交部發言"}]}}}}