{"id":150163,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150163","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192b2fd5bdd87c8fe952c38239db8676b4ff8ba9b0039caa7a6707ab4d4785160245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"12:14:46 - 12:20:07","影片長度":"00:05:21","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":321,"end_time":"2024-03-20T12:20:07+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T12:14:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1107,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（12時14分）謝謝主席，我請勞動部部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：吳委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：部長好。今天時間有限，我就直接向您請教。去年性平三法完成修法上路，性工法第十二條增列勞動部要針對職場性騷擾增設調查人才庫。我過去在臺北市議會時曾經調查，就臺北市政府而言，各局處單位每一年都有職員提出性騷擾案件的申訴，所以對於申訴的調查確實需要引進外部專業人力協助。勞動部去年提出性騷擾調查人才庫的要點、也就是去年把要點提出來了，我比較好奇的是針對專業人員要進行培訓，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：他們雖然有所專業，但來了以後還是需要培訓。那培訓時數究竟多少？你們沒有寫在要點裡面。你們已經辦了10場以上、培訓九百多人嘛！那培訓時數究竟是多少？"],["許部長銘春：12到24小時。"],["吳委員沛憶：12到24小時？是12小時還是24小時？"],["許部長銘春：針對不同人才，時數可能會不一樣。"],["吳委員沛憶：有可能不同，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，因為有跟團體討論過。"],["吳委員沛憶：不只勞動部有這樣的人才庫培訓，其他部會也有，包括衛福部、包括教育部，勞動部有沒有去了解過其他部會針對這樣的性騷調查人才培訓時數是多少？有沒有去了解過？衛福部針對性騷調查人才的培訓時數是12小時。"],["許部長銘春：12小時，對。"],["吳委員沛憶：教育部是分成四階段課程，加起來是2週以上，這個時數就增加很多了。而我對這項人才培訓時數的看法是，時數的基本規範除了課程的內容深度以外，其他要有一定的標準，例如12小時跟24小時就是2倍差距。那勞動部能不能去了解一下其他部會？因為其他部會進行的時間比你們還久嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：你們是去年新上路的，可以去了解一下實務上第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的，讓這些人才未來可以協助。這很重要，因為涉及性騷事件調查、申訴案的調查，培訓一定要充足，確保這些人才具有充分、專業的培訓，才能夠協助你們作完備的性騷案件申訴調查，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以請你們去了解一下。就我了解、所知，其實很多民間人士反映這個時數是不夠的，若有必要，就趕快調整，並且應該明訂、寫入要點。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：第二，針對協助性騷申訴案件調查的人員，倘若他不適任，有沒有退場機制？"],["許部長銘春：有，我們這邊就有定義不適任的情況。"],["吳委員沛憶：哪些不適任？根據目前勞動部的要點，如果涉及性侵、性騷案件……"],["許部長銘春：性霸凌。"],["吳委員沛憶：或性霸凌，勞動部就會解除他的調查人員資格，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：一樣，衛福部跟教育部過去制定的要點也都已經實行、上路了，例如在衛福部的退場機制裡，這些人員倘若涉及兒少性剝削、倘若涉及妨害性隱私、不實性影像罪等、涉及跟騷法，都屬於不適任者。如果涉及這些行為，當然不適合從事性騷申訴案件調查，但勞動部的要點裡沒有列入兒少性剝削、妨害性隱私等，如果他涉及兒少性剝削，這樣的人適合協助性騷案件的申訴調查嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不適合。"],["吳委員沛憶：不適合嘛！所以勞動部這項要點該修的也要趕快修得更完備，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：最後一點時間，我必須提醒部長。我注意到你們現在提出彈性育嬰留停5到7天要試辦上路，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：第一，我認為5天到7天就實務來說不夠。第二，在你們的試辦計畫裡，照目前的計畫，是要雇主提出才進行試辦，對不對？倘若雇主沒有提出，勞工就沒有參與彈性育嬰假試辦的可能性了。要是因為雇主不提出就沒有辦法享有彈性育嬰假，那我們也不需要勞動部了，所以我希望勞動部還是要趕快研議，有8成受僱者、5成企業都支持彈性育嬰假應該以日或小時計算，希望勞動部趕快研議這項方案，讓試辦計畫上路的時候真的可以讓受僱者受惠，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請洪申翰委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","范雲","李坤城","洪孟楷","李彥秀","吳沛憶","洪申翰","牛煦庭","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:38,169\n部長好今天時間有限我想就直接跟您請教我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴\n\n3\n00:00:38,949 --> 00:00:56,122\n所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個青山小調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對它雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面\n\n4\n00:01:02,853 --> 00:01:03,073\n實數會不一樣\n\n5\n00:01:20,874 --> 00:01:36,142\n有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過?\n\n6\n00:01:43,882 --> 00:01:59,413\n衛福部的性騷調查人才培訓是12小時,教育部時數有分四階段的課程加起來是兩週以上,這個時數就增加了很多了。\n\n7\n00:01:59,793 --> 00:02:17,796\n那我認為啦,針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會\n\n8\n00:02:18,737 --> 00:02:40,385\n其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為這些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分\n\n9\n00:02:41,365 --> 00:03:07,537\n專業的培訓才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。\n\n10\n00:03:10,525 --> 00:03:15,574\n衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進\n\n11\n00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:48,189\n我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查人員的資格對不對一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私不實行影像罪\n\n12\n00:03:49,390 --> 00:04:12,121\n等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、妨礙性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。\n\n13\n00:04:13,922 --> 00:04:24,988\n不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對?\n\n14\n00:04:32,067 --> 00:04:48,681\n第一、五到七天就實務來說不夠第二、在你們事辦計畫以目前的計畫是要雇主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若雇主沒有來提出,我們的勞工就沒有彈性孕育下事辦的可能性了\n\n15\n00:04:49,491 --> 00:05:13,931\n那如果雇主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝\n\n16\n00:05:17,546 --> 00:05:20,841\n好謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t9257\t委員進行諮詢。謝主席,我請勞動部部長。好,請許部長。\n15100\t38169\t部長好今天時間有限我想就直接跟您請教我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴\n38949\t56122\t所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個青山小調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對它雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面\n62853\t63073\t實數會不一樣\n80874\t96142\t有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過?\n103882\t119413\t衛福部的性騷調查人才培訓是12小時,教育部時數有分四階段的課程加起來是兩週以上,這個時數就增加了很多了。\n119793\t137796\t那我認為啦,針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會\n138737\t160385\t其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為這些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分\n161365\t187537\t專業的培訓才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。\n190525\t195574\t衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進\n199810\t228189\t我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查人員的資格對不對一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私不實行影像罪\n229390\t252121\t等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、妨礙性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。\n253922\t264988\t不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對?\n272067\t288681\t第一、五到七天就實務來說不夠第二、在你們事辦計畫以目前的計畫是要雇主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若雇主沒有來提出,我們的勞工就沒有彈性孕育下事辦的可能性了\n289491\t313931\t那如果雇主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝\n317546\t320841\t好 謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行\n","txt":"委員進行諮詢。謝主席,我請勞動部部長。好,請許部長。\n部長好今天時間有限我想就直接跟您請教我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴\n所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個青山小調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對它雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面\n實數會不一樣\n有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過?\n衛福部的性騷調查人才培訓是12小時,教育部時數有分四階段的課程加起來是兩週以上,這個時數就增加了很多了。\n那我認為啦,針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會\n其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為這些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分\n專業的培訓才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。\n衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進\n我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查人員的資格對不對一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私不實行影像罪\n等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、妨礙性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。\n不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對?\n第一、五到七天就實務來說不夠第二、在你們事辦計畫以目前的計畫是要雇主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若雇主沒有來提出,我們的勞工就沒有彈性孕育下事辦的可能性了\n那如果雇主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝\n好 謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:09.257\n委員進行諮詢。謝主席,我請勞動部部長。好,請許部長。\n\n00:15.100 --> 00:38.169\n部長好今天時間有限我想就直接跟您請教我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴\n\n00:38.949 --> 00:56.122\n所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個青山小調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對它雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面\n\n01:02.853 --> 01:03.073\n實數會不一樣\n\n01:20.874 --> 01:36.142\n有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過?\n\n01:43.882 --> 01:59.413\n衛福部的性騷調查人才培訓是12小時,教育部時數有分四階段的課程加起來是兩週以上,這個時數就增加了很多了。\n\n01:59.793 --> 02:17.796\n那我認為啦,針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會\n\n02:18.737 --> 02:40.385\n其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為這些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分\n\n02:41.365 --> 03:07.537\n專業的培訓才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。\n\n03:10.525 --> 03:15.574\n衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進\n\n03:19.810 --> 03:48.189\n我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查人員的資格對不對一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私不實行影像罪\n\n03:49.390 --> 04:12.121\n等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、妨礙性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。\n\n04:13.922 --> 04:24.988\n不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對?\n\n04:32.067 --> 04:48.681\n第一、五到七天就實務來說不夠第二、在你們事辦計畫以目前的計畫是要雇主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若雇主沒有來提出,我們的勞工就沒有彈性孕育下事辦的可能性了\n\n04:49.491 --> 05:13.931\n那如果雇主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝\n\n05:17.546 --> 05:20.841\n好謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":9.257,"text":"委員進行諮詢。謝主席,我請勞動部部長。好,請許部長。"},{"start":15.1,"end":38.169,"text":"部長好今天時間有限我想就直接跟您請教我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴"},{"start":38.949,"end":56.122,"text":"所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個青山小調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對它雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面"},{"start":62.853,"end":63.073,"text":"實數會不一樣"},{"start":80.874,"end":96.142,"text":"有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過?"},{"start":103.882,"end":119.413,"text":"衛福部的性騷調查人才培訓是12小時,教育部時數有分四階段的課程加起來是兩週以上,這個時數就增加了很多了。"},{"start":119.793,"end":137.796,"text":"那我認為啦,針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會"},{"start":138.737,"end":160.385,"text":"其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為這些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分"},{"start":161.365,"end":187.537,"text":"專業的培訓才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。"},{"start":190.525,"end":195.574,"text":"衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進"},{"start":199.81,"end":228.189,"text":"我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查人員的資格對不對一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私不實行影像罪"},{"start":229.39,"end":252.121,"text":"等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、妨礙性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。"},{"start":253.922,"end":264.988,"text":"不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對?"},{"start":272.067,"end":288.681,"text":"第一、五到七天就實務來說不夠第二、在你們事辦計畫以目前的計畫是要雇主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若雇主沒有來提出,我們的勞工就沒有彈性孕育下事辦的可能性了"},{"start":289.491,"end":313.931,"text":"那如果雇主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝"},{"start":317.546,"end":320.841,"text":"好 謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行"}]}}}}