{"id":150181,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150181","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f19276e737296f2a0667753301a1aac7f2e9f8ba9b0039caa7a6fb776576558faad05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"12:50:49 - 13:02:00","影片長度":"00:11:11","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":671,"end_time":"2024-03-20T13:02:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T12:50:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1108,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（12時51分）謝謝主席。我們是不是請部長？"],["主席：好，有請林右昌部長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法，我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是滿離譜的，而在臺灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到，好的農地沒有人要去耕種，你看看台糖的土地在那裡荒廢，你看那個適合耕種的地區，在那裡淪為雜草叢生，然後不該種植的地方卻濫墾造成土石流，然後工業區以前劃設得不夠，在有限的工業區裡面淪為炒地皮，讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用，然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠，大家這樣亂七八糟，在良田、特農區裡面蓋一個工廠，廢水排放、灌排不分離，這些灌排不分離，工廠廢水就是耕種我們要吃的所有農作物的水源，所以這個就是這幾十年的亂象啦！你看我這個案例，其實講這個例子我也是滿悲哀的，這個是特農區，有農路有水路，可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍，然後照會過主人說我給你2,000元補償，我要蓋的時候會搭到你的土地，但不是這樣子，蓋起來的時候，你看那田裡面，水泥都跑到農田裡面去了，我問一下部長，國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變？"],["林部長右昌：委員你講的這個是在特農啦！對不對？"],["林委員淑芬：蓋農舍啦！"],["林部長右昌：應該是說它如果是在我們的特農區裡面的話，它還是允許做相關的一個生產設施的使用。"],["林委員淑芬：對，沒有錯，你講對了！即便國土計畫法出來以後，農發條例可以許可的它仍然是可以許可，沒有任何改變，這我們已經夠悲哀了，國土計畫法實施以後仍然可以許可，我們農田中央長一棟工廠，現在再申請特登，違章工廠、鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登，國土計畫法實施以後，它會不會有問題？它會不會被拆掉？"],["林部長右昌：特登的話，如果它是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化並做改善的話，它是可以的，但是如果它沒有完成相關的改善是不允許。"],["林委員淑芬：那個跟國土計畫法無關啦。我現在要講的是說，工廠輔導法排除了國土計畫法的管制，農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制，可能能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制，所以我現在看，大家都在講說：「國土計畫法實施以後，好像洪水猛獸一樣，我們就再也不能夠種茶了，我們就再也不能夠養魚了，我們就再也不能夠住在這裡了，我們會被趕走」。這是事實嗎？我們來檢視一下，檢視一下國土保育區，大家最擔心的就是被劃入國土保育區，我們來看農業現有分類的農業區，如果劃入國土保育區，可不可以維持自然保育設施？有設施的可不可以繼續使用？國保1、國保2可不可以？大聲一點，署長。"],["吳署長欣修：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：請問一下，它可不可以做生態體系保護設施？"],["吳署長欣修：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：現在可以，未來實施國土計畫法以後可不可以？大聲一點。"],["吳署長欣修：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：它可不可以得為林業使用、造林、苗圃、林下經濟的經營使用？"],["吳署長欣修：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：它可不可以做林業經營的管理設施？"],["吳署長欣修：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：那請問一下，它可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍、辦公室？"],["吳署長欣修：如果有經過合法申請的，還是可以。"],["林委員淑芬：兩公頃以下還是可以？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["林委員淑芬：可不可以做其他林業設施？"],["吳署長欣修：這都要經過申請。"],["林委員淑芬：兩公頃以下都可以，所以還可以？","如果現在是森林遊樂設施，未來的管理服務設施在國保1、國保2，可不可以？"],["吳署長欣修：還是可以。"],["林委員淑芬：還是可以。遊憩服務設施？"],["吳署長欣修：對，就是現有已經核准的。"],["林委員淑芬：現有已經核准的都沒有影響，只有新增設的不可以？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["林委員淑芬：可不可以做森林遊樂設施裡面的住宿及附屬設施？"],["吳署長欣修：這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。"],["林委員淑芬：經過申請審查也一樣可以。","請問，可不可以做農作使用？"],["吳署長欣修：農作使用也是依照原來申請的……"],["林委員淑芬：原來許可可以的就可以？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["林委員淑芬：只是不能夠再新增？"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯。"],["林委員淑芬：可不可以做農田水利設施？"],["吳署長欣修：如果原來都有經過申請，還是都可以。"],["林委員淑芬：原來經過申請的都可以，原來不合格的才有管制。","請問，在國保1、國保2可不可以做農作產銷設施、生產設施、管理設施？"],["吳署長欣修：都是既有的才可以。"],["林委員淑芬：既有的統統都可以維持原狀，不會拆，還可以繼續使用，可以做農作生產設施、管理設施、加工設施、集運設施、水產設施，既有的都可以，既有的，現在在做的，都可以，只有不可以再新申請？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["林委員淑芬：那畜牧設施也一樣喔？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["林委員淑芬：畜養設施、養禽、畜牧業都可以？"],["吳署長欣修：是，原有合法申請的都可以。"],["林委員淑芬：那我問你，農舍可不可以？"],["吳署長欣修：農舍就必須要回到農發條例。"],["林委員淑芬：農發條例說可以就可以。可不可以做民宿？"],["吳署長欣修：民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照當地對偏遠地區的認定，相關的……"],["林委員淑芬：民宿是限於原區域計畫法，原來編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地，要符合農發條例的規定，統統都是原來就有的，就許可。古早可以的，未來還可以？"],["吳署長欣修：對，原來可以的都還可以。"],["林委員淑芬：所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎？大家都說不可以再種茶，不可以再養什麼，結果統統都可以，那為什麼把它講得這麼不堪呢？現在的重點就是說，做為一個地方行政首長，沒有那麼簡單，我選縣長，我選市長，只要選上就好，不是這樣。選上縣長和市長後，是要當地方政府首長，要扛起空間規劃的責任，要因應這個地方、這個區域發展的願景，要對這個縣市發展的願景做出預測，還有訂出發展的策略目標，因為有這個發展的策略目標，所以要規劃出對應的空間秩序，是這樣而已。所以要怎麼劃，中央也沒有規定，地方要劃哪裡作為農業區、農業發展區，哪裡劃為城鄉發展區，哪裡劃為國保1、國保2，都是地方政府在劃設的，你們有規定比例要劃多少嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：沒有。"],["林委員淑芬：沒有。為什麼它不願意劃？為什麼把責任都推給國土計畫法，說是國土計畫法害的？是不是國土計畫法害的？這個我們在這裡要說：不要一句都是中央！不要一句都是國土計畫法！我們再說一遍，地方政府的國土計畫還有國土功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定，認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去作空間規劃，而即便規劃成國保1、國保2，我們仍然對從來既有的使用，不會予以剝奪，未來甚至有的像民宿、像農舍，都還可以繼續依照農發條例繼續蓋，都可以申請然後許可，並不是如大家所擔心的，這個法律這麼的不堪。我們今天在這裡要說，我們本來是2加2，全國國土計畫、各縣市國土計畫，再加上國土功能分區，2加2加2，6年，這個法律當初在制定的時候，我們就想過要給地方政府空間和時間，讓他們慢慢調適，所以上一次修法的時候，他說他們真的來不及，所以我們同意就再放寬3年，變成2加3加4。現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼？是不願意去溝通？還是因為國土計畫法實施以後唯一的一個改變，就是不能夠再個案變更？但也可以通案變更，5年通盤檢討。因為你不能買了一塊地，列好了這塊地，就馬上要來申請變更，只是不能這樣子而已！說得簡單一些，想要炒地皮也沒那麼簡單，要多麻煩一點！所以它只是不能夠個案變更，5年通盤檢討後，都可以繼續變更。"],["主席：好，委員謝謝，時間抓一下，謝謝。"],["林委員淑芬：我們不知道為什麼大家現在突然就好照顧原住民，事實上國土計畫法實施以後，對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制，而且比以前的區域計畫法還更有彈性，包括可以主動規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序，輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等，當然也有管制的部分，即原來的管制繼續管制的也有，所以並不是說好像都是中央不對，像洪水猛獸，說這個法律不可行，不是！所以我們現在要求地方政府要扛起責任，地方首長更要扛起溝通的責任！它明明就什麼都可以，為什麼把它講成什麼都不可以的樣子！"],["主席：好，謝謝林淑芬委員。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，你要講一句嗎？"],["林部長右昌：非常感謝委員。"],["主席：不同的立場總是會有，希望內政部強化溝通。","下一位是謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員，不在。","下一位請伍麗華委員提出質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra 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\"沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 151.823, \"end\": 152.003, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 152.003, \"end\": 152.203, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 152.203, \"end\": 152.403, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 152.403, \"end\": 152.623, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 152.623, \"end\": 153.624, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 153.624, \"end\": 153.844, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 153.844, \"end\": 154.384, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"悲\", \"start\": 154.384, \"end\": 154.564, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"哀\", \"start\": 154.564, \"end\": 154.824, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 154.824, \"end\": 155.325, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 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\"特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 172.632, \"end\": 172.832, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 172.832, \"end\": 173.012, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 173.012, \"end\": 173.313, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 173.313, \"end\": 173.513, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 173.513, \"end\": 173.693, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 173.693, \"end\": 174.053, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 174.053, \"end\": 174.294, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 174.294, \"end\": 174.494, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 174.494, \"end\": 174.854, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 174.854, \"end\": 174.974, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 174.974, \"end\": 175.254, 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{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 199.914, \"end\": 200.074, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 200.074, \"end\": 200.595, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 200.595, \"end\": 200.915, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 200.915, \"end\": 201.095, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 201.095, \"end\": 201.255, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 201.255, \"end\": 201.415, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 201.415, \"end\": 201.435, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 202.236, \"end\": 202.456, \"text\": \"這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 202.236, \"end\": 202.256, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 202.256, \"end\": 202.276, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 202.276, \"end\": 202.336, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 202.336, \"end\": 202.356, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 202.356, \"end\": 202.396, \"score\": 0.013}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 202.396, \"end\": 202.416, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 202.416, \"end\": 202.436, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"吼\", \"start\": 202.436, \"end\": 202.456, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 218.783, \"end\": 240.664, \"text\": \"解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 218.783, \"end\": 219.143, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.143, \"end\": 219.244, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 219.244, \"end\": 219.684, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 219.684, \"end\": 219.864, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 219.864, \"end\": 220.024, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 220.024, \"end\": 220.305, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 220.305, \"end\": 220.445, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 220.445, \"end\": 220.605, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 220.605, \"end\": 220.905, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 220.905, \"end\": 221.065, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.065, \"end\": 221.165, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 221.165, \"end\": 221.746, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 221.746, \"end\": 222.186, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 222.186, \"end\": 222.547, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 222.547, \"end\": 222.767, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 222.767, \"end\": 222.947, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 222.947, \"end\": 223.387, \"score\": 0.81}, 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{\"word\": \"芬\", \"start\": 648.268, \"end\": 648.288, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,794 --> 00:00:07,834\n主席\n\n2\n00:00:26,166 --> 00:00:48,615\n有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法這個我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是蠻離譜的而發展呢在台灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到好的農地沒有人要去耕種你看台塘的土地在那裡荒廢你看那個適合耕種的地區然後在那裡\n\n3\n00:00:51,416 --> 00:01:07,546\n蘆葦這個雜草重生然後不該種植的地方卻爛墾造成土石流然後工業區以前化設的不夠然後在有限的工業區裡面蘆葦草地皮讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠然後大家這樣亂七八糟\n\n4\n00:01:11,528 --> 00:01:11,768\n﹚林淑芬\n\n5\n00:01:36,041 --> 00:02:04,983\n那你看我們這個,你看我這個,其實講這個例子我也是蠻悲哀的這個是特農區,有農路有水路可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍然後照顧過主人說我給你兩千元補償我要蓋的時候會搭到你的那個土地然後但不是這樣子蓋起來的時候你看那田裡面水泥都跑到農田裡面去了我問一下這個部長國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變\n\n6\n00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:30,972\n委員你講的這個是在特農嗎?蓋農舍應該是說他如果是在這個我們的特農區裡面的話他還是允許做相關的一個生產對沒有錯你講對了即便國土計畫法出來以後農發條例可以許可的他仍然是可以許可\n\n7\n00:02:31,823 --> 00:02:49,031\n沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉\n\n8\n00:02:52,632 --> 00:03:21,435\n特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說\n\n9\n00:03:22,236 --> 00:03:22,456\n這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。\n\n10\n00:03:38,783 --> 00:04:00,664\n解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?\n\n11\n00:04:05,252 --> 00:04:27,102\n可以請問一下他可不可以做生態體系保護設施?可以現在可以未來實施國土計畫以後可不可以?還是可以比較大聲的啦可以喔他可不可以得為林業使用照林苗圃林下經濟經營使用林下經濟的經營使用?可以他可不可以做林業經營的管理設施?可以\n\n12\n00:04:28,575 --> 00:04:31,640\n他可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍辦公室?兩公頃以下還是可以,他可不可以做其他林業設施?\n\n13\n00:04:41,963 --> 00:05:05,104\n這都要經過申請兩公頃以下都可以所以還可以他現在是森林遊樂設施未來的管理服務設施在國保一國保二可不可以還是可以還是可以遊器服務設施對就現有已經核准了現有已經核准了都沒有影響只有新增設的不可以對可不可以做這個住宿及附屬設施森林遊樂設施裡面\n\n14\n00:05:07,271 --> 00:05:14,473\n這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。申請審查一樣可以,那請問可不可以做農作使用?農作使用也是依照它原來的…你原來許可可以的就可以,只是不能夠再新增?沒錯。可不可以做農田水利設施?如果原來都有經過申請的還是都可以。\n\n15\n00:05:29,403 --> 00:05:30,244\n請問各位做農作產銷設施生產設施管理設施\n\n16\n00:05:39,653 --> 00:06:03,407\n國保一國保二都是既有的?既有的通通都可以維持原狀不會拆還可以繼續使用可以做農作生產設施管理設施加工設施集運設施既有的都可以水產設施既有的你現在在做的都可以只有你不可以再申請那畜牧設施也一樣喔\n\n17\n00:06:05,236 --> 00:06:21,177\n可以續養設施、養情、養畜牧業都可以?是,就原有合法申請都可以。農業,那我問你農舍可不可以?農舍這就必須要回到農法條例。農法條例說可以就可以,可不可以做民宿?\n\n18\n00:06:23,206 --> 00:06:48,723\n民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照這個當地所謂偏遠地區的認定相關的民宿是限於原區域計劃你原來所編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地要符合農發條例的規定通通都原來就有的就許可鉤炸可以的未來還可以對,原來可以的都還可以所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:51,578 --> 00:06:51,978\n國土管理署署長林淑芬\n\n20\n00:07:13,672 --> 00:07:17,036\n你還要定出發展的策略目標,因為這個發展的策略目標,所以你要規劃出對應的空間秩序\n\n21\n00:07:33,387 --> 00:07:33,587\n是不是國土計畫法害的?\n\n22\n00:08:04,942 --> 00:08:31,072\n這個我們在這裡要講說不要一句都是中央不要一句都是國土計畫法我們再說一遍地方政府的國土計畫還有這個國土這個功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去空間規劃而即便規劃成國保一、國保二\n\n23\n00:08:31,932 --> 00:08:43,747\n我們仍然對從來既有的使用不會剝奪掉未來甚至有的像民宿有的像農舍都還可以繼續依照農法條例繼續蓋都可以申請然後許可\n\n24\n00:08:49,573 --> 00:08:55,779\n並不是如大家所擔心的這麼的這個法律這麼的不堪而我們今天在這裡要說啦我們本來是2加2全國國土計畫各縣市國土計畫再加上國土功能分區2加2加26年這個法律我當初在制定的時候我們就想過要給人地方政府空間和時間所以就讓他們慢慢調適\n\n25\n00:09:16,776 --> 00:09:43,706\n那上一次修法我們同意他說我真的來不及那我們再放寬三年變成2加3加4現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼是不願意去溝通還是因為不能夠唯一的變化是什麼國土計畫法實施以後唯一只有一個改變不能夠再個案變更但是也可以通案變更五年通盤檢討\n\n26\n00:09:45,233 --> 00:09:52,522\n不能你買一堆堆列好了這塊地馬上就要來申請變更只是不能這樣子而已說得簡單的要插台幣也不簡單啦給麻煩一塊啦只是不能夠個案變更五年的通盤檢討都可以繼續變更\n\n27\n00:10:03,812 --> 00:10:27,698\n我們不知道說大家為什麼現在突然就好照顧原住民喔事實上國土計畫法實施以後對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制而且比以前區域計畫法還更有彈性還包括主動給規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等\n\n28\n00:10:28,798 --> 00:10:45,996\n當然也有管制的部分：原來的管制繼續管制的也有所以並不是說好像當然就是說都中央的不對洪水猛瘦這個法律不可行不是現在我們要求地方政府要扛起責任\n\n29\n00:10:46,926 --> 00:10:48,288\n謝謝下一位是謝依芬\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7794\t7834\t主席\n26166\t48615\t有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法這個我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是蠻離譜的而發展呢在台灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到好的農地沒有人要去耕種你看台塘的土地在那裡荒廢你看那個適合耕種的地區然後在那裡\n51416\t67546\t蘆葦這個雜草重生然後不該種植的地方卻爛墾造成土石流然後工業區以前化設的不夠然後在有限的工業區裡面蘆葦草地皮讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠然後大家這樣亂七八糟\n71528\t71768\t﹚林淑芬\n96041\t124983\t那你看我們這個,你看我這個,其實講這個例子我也是蠻悲哀的這個是特農區,有農路有水路可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍然後照顧過主人說我給你兩千元補償我要蓋的時候會搭到你的那個土地然後但不是這樣子蓋起來的時候你看那田裡面水泥都跑到農田裡面去了我問一下這個部長國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變\n128730\t150972\t委員你講的這個是在特農嗎?蓋農舍應該是說他如果是在這個我們的特農區裡面的話他還是允許做相關的一個生產對沒有錯你講對了即便國土計畫法出來以後農發條例可以許可的他仍然是可以許可\n151823\t169031\t沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉\n172632\t201435\t特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說\n202236\t202456\t這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。\n218783\t240664\t解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?\n245252\t267102\t可以請問一下他可不可以做生態體系保護設施?可以現在可以未來實施國土計畫以後可不可以?還是可以比較大聲的啦可以喔他可不可以得為林業使用照林苗圃林下經濟經營使用林下經濟的經營使用?可以他可不可以做林業經營的管理設施?可以\n268575\t271640\t他可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍辦公室?兩公頃以下還是可以,他可不可以做其他林業設施?\n281963\t305104\t這都要經過申請兩公頃以下都可以所以還可以他現在是森林遊樂設施未來的管理服務設施在國保一國保二可不可以還是可以還是可以遊器服務設施對就現有已經核准了現有已經核准了都沒有影響只有新增設的不可以對可不可以做這個住宿及附屬設施森林遊樂設施裡面\n307271\t314473\t這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。申請審查一樣可以,那請問可不可以做農作使用?農作使用也是依照它原來的…你原來許可可以的就可以,只是不能夠再新增?沒錯。可不可以做農田水利設施?如果原來都有經過申請的還是都可以。\n329403\t330244\t請問各位做農作產銷設施生產設施管理設施\n339653\t363407\t國保一國保二都是既有的?既有的通通都可以維持原狀不會拆還可以繼續使用可以做農作生產設施管理設施加工設施集運設施既有的都可以水產設施既有的你現在在做的都可以只有你不可以再申請那畜牧設施也一樣喔\n365236\t381177\t可以續養設施、養情、養畜牧業都可以?是,就原有合法申請都可以。農業,那我問你農舍可不可以?農舍這就必須要回到農法條例。農法條例說可以就可以,可不可以做民宿?\n383206\t408723\t民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照這個當地所謂偏遠地區的認定相關的民宿是限於原區域計劃你原來所編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地要符合農發條例的規定通通都原來就有的就許可鉤炸可以的未來還可以對,原來可以的都還可以所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎?\n411578\t411978\t國土管理署署長 林淑芬\n433672\t437036\t你還要定出發展的策略目標,因為這個發展的策略目標,所以你要規劃出對應的空間秩序\n453387\t453587\t是不是國土計畫法害的?\n484942\t511072\t這個我們在這裡要講說不要一句都是中央不要一句都是國土計畫法我們再說一遍地方政府的國土計畫還有這個國土這個功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去空間規劃而即便規劃成國保一、國保二\n511932\t523747\t我們仍然對從來既有的使用不會剝奪掉未來甚至有的像民宿有的像農舍都還可以繼續依照農法條例繼續蓋都可以申請然後許可\n529573\t535779\t並不是如大家所擔心的這麼的這個法律這麼的不堪而我們今天在這裡要說啦我們本來是2加2全國國土計畫各縣市國土計畫再加上國土功能分區2加2加2 6年這個法律我當初在制定的時候我們就想過要給人地方政府空間和時間所以就讓他們慢慢調適\n556776\t583706\t那上一次修法我們同意他說我真的來不及那我們再放寬三年變成2加3加4現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼是不願意去溝通還是因為不能夠唯一的變化是什麼國土計畫法實施以後唯一只有一個改變不能夠再個案變更但是也可以通案變更五年通盤檢討\n585233\t592522\t不能你買一堆堆列好了這塊地馬上就要來申請變更只是不能這樣子而已說得簡單的要插台幣也不簡單啦給麻煩一塊啦只是不能夠個案變更五年的通盤檢討都可以繼續變更\n603812\t627698\t我們不知道說大家為什麼現在突然就好照顧原住民喔事實上國土計畫法實施以後對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制而且比以前區域計畫法還更有彈性還包括主動給規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等\n628798\t645996\t當然也有管制的部分：原來的管制繼續管制的也有所以並不是說好像當然就是說都中央的不對洪水猛瘦這個法律不可行不是現在我們要求地方政府要扛起責任\n646926\t648288\t謝謝下一位是謝依芬\n","txt":"主席\n有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法這個我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是蠻離譜的而發展呢在台灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到好的農地沒有人要去耕種你看台塘的土地在那裡荒廢你看那個適合耕種的地區然後在那裡\n蘆葦這個雜草重生然後不該種植的地方卻爛墾造成土石流然後工業區以前化設的不夠然後在有限的工業區裡面蘆葦草地皮讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠然後大家這樣亂七八糟\n﹚林淑芬\n那你看我們這個,你看我這個,其實講這個例子我也是蠻悲哀的這個是特農區,有農路有水路可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍然後照顧過主人說我給你兩千元補償我要蓋的時候會搭到你的那個土地然後但不是這樣子蓋起來的時候你看那田裡面水泥都跑到農田裡面去了我問一下這個部長國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變\n委員你講的這個是在特農嗎?蓋農舍應該是說他如果是在這個我們的特農區裡面的話他還是允許做相關的一個生產對沒有錯你講對了即便國土計畫法出來以後農發條例可以許可的他仍然是可以許可\n沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉\n特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說\n這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。\n解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?\n可以請問一下他可不可以做生態體系保護設施?可以現在可以未來實施國土計畫以後可不可以?還是可以比較大聲的啦可以喔他可不可以得為林業使用照林苗圃林下經濟經營使用林下經濟的經營使用?可以他可不可以做林業經營的管理設施?可以\n他可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍辦公室?兩公頃以下還是可以,他可不可以做其他林業設施?\n這都要經過申請兩公頃以下都可以所以還可以他現在是森林遊樂設施未來的管理服務設施在國保一國保二可不可以還是可以還是可以遊器服務設施對就現有已經核准了現有已經核准了都沒有影響只有新增設的不可以對可不可以做這個住宿及附屬設施森林遊樂設施裡面\n這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。申請審查一樣可以,那請問可不可以做農作使用?農作使用也是依照它原來的…你原來許可可以的就可以,只是不能夠再新增?沒錯。可不可以做農田水利設施?如果原來都有經過申請的還是都可以。\n請問各位做農作產銷設施生產設施管理設施\n國保一國保二都是既有的?既有的通通都可以維持原狀不會拆還可以繼續使用可以做農作生產設施管理設施加工設施集運設施既有的都可以水產設施既有的你現在在做的都可以只有你不可以再申請那畜牧設施也一樣喔\n可以續養設施、養情、養畜牧業都可以?是,就原有合法申請都可以。農業,那我問你農舍可不可以?農舍這就必須要回到農法條例。農法條例說可以就可以,可不可以做民宿?\n民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照這個當地所謂偏遠地區的認定相關的民宿是限於原區域計劃你原來所編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地要符合農發條例的規定通通都原來就有的就許可鉤炸可以的未來還可以對,原來可以的都還可以所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎?\n國土管理署署長 林淑芬\n你還要定出發展的策略目標,因為這個發展的策略目標,所以你要規劃出對應的空間秩序\n是不是國土計畫法害的?\n這個我們在這裡要講說不要一句都是中央不要一句都是國土計畫法我們再說一遍地方政府的國土計畫還有這個國土這個功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去空間規劃而即便規劃成國保一、國保二\n我們仍然對從來既有的使用不會剝奪掉未來甚至有的像民宿有的像農舍都還可以繼續依照農法條例繼續蓋都可以申請然後許可\n並不是如大家所擔心的這麼的這個法律這麼的不堪而我們今天在這裡要說啦我們本來是2加2全國國土計畫各縣市國土計畫再加上國土功能分區2加2加2 6年這個法律我當初在制定的時候我們就想過要給人地方政府空間和時間所以就讓他們慢慢調適\n那上一次修法我們同意他說我真的來不及那我們再放寬三年變成2加3加4現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼是不願意去溝通還是因為不能夠唯一的變化是什麼國土計畫法實施以後唯一只有一個改變不能夠再個案變更但是也可以通案變更五年通盤檢討\n不能你買一堆堆列好了這塊地馬上就要來申請變更只是不能這樣子而已說得簡單的要插台幣也不簡單啦給麻煩一塊啦只是不能夠個案變更五年的通盤檢討都可以繼續變更\n我們不知道說大家為什麼現在突然就好照顧原住民喔事實上國土計畫法實施以後對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制而且比以前區域計畫法還更有彈性還包括主動給規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等\n當然也有管制的部分：原來的管制繼續管制的也有所以並不是說好像當然就是說都中央的不對洪水猛瘦這個法律不可行不是現在我們要求地方政府要扛起責任\n謝謝下一位是謝依芬\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.794 --> 00:07.834\n主席\n\n00:26.166 --> 00:48.615\n有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法這個我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是蠻離譜的而發展呢在台灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到好的農地沒有人要去耕種你看台塘的土地在那裡荒廢你看那個適合耕種的地區然後在那裡\n\n00:51.416 --> 01:07.546\n蘆葦這個雜草重生然後不該種植的地方卻爛墾造成土石流然後工業區以前化設的不夠然後在有限的工業區裡面蘆葦草地皮讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠然後大家這樣亂七八糟\n\n01:11.528 --> 01:11.768\n﹚林淑芬\n\n01:36.041 --> 02:04.983\n那你看我們這個,你看我這個,其實講這個例子我也是蠻悲哀的這個是特農區,有農路有水路可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍然後照顧過主人說我給你兩千元補償我要蓋的時候會搭到你的那個土地然後但不是這樣子蓋起來的時候你看那田裡面水泥都跑到農田裡面去了我問一下這個部長國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變\n\n02:08.730 --> 02:30.972\n委員你講的這個是在特農嗎?蓋農舍應該是說他如果是在這個我們的特農區裡面的話他還是允許做相關的一個生產對沒有錯你講對了即便國土計畫法出來以後農發條例可以許可的他仍然是可以許可\n\n02:31.823 --> 02:49.031\n沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉\n\n02:52.632 --> 03:21.435\n特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說\n\n03:22.236 --> 03:22.456\n這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。\n\n03:38.783 --> 04:00.664\n解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?\n\n04:05.252 --> 04:27.102\n可以請問一下他可不可以做生態體系保護設施?可以現在可以未來實施國土計畫以後可不可以?還是可以比較大聲的啦可以喔他可不可以得為林業使用照林苗圃林下經濟經營使用林下經濟的經營使用?可以他可不可以做林業經營的管理設施?可以\n\n04:28.575 --> 04:31.640\n他可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍辦公室?兩公頃以下還是可以,他可不可以做其他林業設施?\n\n04:41.963 --> 05:05.104\n這都要經過申請兩公頃以下都可以所以還可以他現在是森林遊樂設施未來的管理服務設施在國保一國保二可不可以還是可以還是可以遊器服務設施對就現有已經核准了現有已經核准了都沒有影響只有新增設的不可以對可不可以做這個住宿及附屬設施森林遊樂設施裡面\n\n05:07.271 --> 05:14.473\n這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。申請審查一樣可以,那請問可不可以做農作使用?農作使用也是依照它原來的…你原來許可可以的就可以,只是不能夠再新增?沒錯。可不可以做農田水利設施?如果原來都有經過申請的還是都可以。\n\n05:29.403 --> 05:30.244\n請問各位做農作產銷設施生產設施管理設施\n\n05:39.653 --> 06:03.407\n國保一國保二都是既有的?既有的通通都可以維持原狀不會拆還可以繼續使用可以做農作生產設施管理設施加工設施集運設施既有的都可以水產設施既有的你現在在做的都可以只有你不可以再申請那畜牧設施也一樣喔\n\n06:05.236 --> 06:21.177\n可以續養設施、養情、養畜牧業都可以?是,就原有合法申請都可以。農業,那我問你農舍可不可以?農舍這就必須要回到農法條例。農法條例說可以就可以,可不可以做民宿?\n\n06:23.206 --> 06:48.723\n民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照這個當地所謂偏遠地區的認定相關的民宿是限於原區域計劃你原來所編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地要符合農發條例的規定通通都原來就有的就許可鉤炸可以的未來還可以對,原來可以的都還可以所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎?\n\n06:51.578 --> 06:51.978\n國土管理署署長林淑芬\n\n07:13.672 --> 07:17.036\n你還要定出發展的策略目標,因為這個發展的策略目標,所以你要規劃出對應的空間秩序\n\n07:33.387 --> 07:33.587\n是不是國土計畫法害的?\n\n08:04.942 --> 08:31.072\n這個我們在這裡要講說不要一句都是中央不要一句都是國土計畫法我們再說一遍地方政府的國土計畫還有這個國土這個功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去空間規劃而即便規劃成國保一、國保二\n\n08:31.932 --> 08:43.747\n我們仍然對從來既有的使用不會剝奪掉未來甚至有的像民宿有的像農舍都還可以繼續依照農法條例繼續蓋都可以申請然後許可\n\n08:49.573 --> 08:55.779\n並不是如大家所擔心的這麼的這個法律這麼的不堪而我們今天在這裡要說啦我們本來是2加2全國國土計畫各縣市國土計畫再加上國土功能分區2加2加26年這個法律我當初在制定的時候我們就想過要給人地方政府空間和時間所以就讓他們慢慢調適\n\n09:16.776 --> 09:43.706\n那上一次修法我們同意他說我真的來不及那我們再放寬三年變成2加3加4現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼是不願意去溝通還是因為不能夠唯一的變化是什麼國土計畫法實施以後唯一只有一個改變不能夠再個案變更但是也可以通案變更五年通盤檢討\n\n09:45.233 --> 09:52.522\n不能你買一堆堆列好了這塊地馬上就要來申請變更只是不能這樣子而已說得簡單的要插台幣也不簡單啦給麻煩一塊啦只是不能夠個案變更五年的通盤檢討都可以繼續變更\n\n10:03.812 --> 10:27.698\n我們不知道說大家為什麼現在突然就好照顧原住民喔事實上國土計畫法實施以後對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制而且比以前區域計畫法還更有彈性還包括主動給規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等\n\n10:28.798 --> 10:45.996\n當然也有管制的部分：原來的管制繼續管制的也有所以並不是說好像當然就是說都中央的不對洪水猛瘦這個法律不可行不是現在我們要求地方政府要扛起責任\n\n10:46.926 --> 10:48.288\n謝謝下一位是謝依芬\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.794,"end":7.834,"text":"主席"},{"start":26.166,"end":48.615,"text":"有中華民國以來就沒有國土計畫法這個我們在講國家的整體國土的空間規劃沒有最上位的法律真的是蠻離譜的而發展呢在台灣發展這麼多年以來我們就看到好的農地沒有人要去耕種你看台塘的土地在那裡荒廢你看那個適合耕種的地區然後在那裡"},{"start":51.416,"end":67.546,"text":"蘆葦這個雜草重生然後不該種植的地方卻爛墾造成土石流然後工業區以前化設的不夠然後在有限的工業區裡面蘆葦草地皮讓需要的人沒有工廠的用地可以用然後大家就在農地裡面蓋鐵皮屋工廠然後大家這樣亂七八糟"},{"start":71.528,"end":71.768,"text":"﹚林淑芬"},{"start":96.041,"end":124.983,"text":"那你看我們這個,你看我這個,其實講這個例子我也是蠻悲哀的這個是特農區,有農路有水路可是隔壁人家說要蓋農舍然後照顧過主人說我給你兩千元補償我要蓋的時候會搭到你的那個土地然後但不是這樣子蓋起來的時候你看那田裡面水泥都跑到農田裡面去了我問一下這個部長國土計畫法實施以後這個現象會不會改變"},{"start":128.73,"end":150.972,"text":"委員你講的這個是在特農嗎?蓋農舍應該是說他如果是在這個我們的特農區裡面的話他還是允許做相關的一個生產對沒有錯你講對了即便國土計畫法出來以後農發條例可以許可的他仍然是可以許可"},{"start":151.823,"end":169.031,"text":"沒有任何改變這我們已經夠悲哀了國土計畫法實施以後還是人滿可以許可那我們農田中央長一棟工廠現在再申請特登特違章工廠鐵皮屋工廠要申請特登國土計畫法實施以後他會不會有問題他會不會被拆掉"},{"start":172.632,"end":201.435,"text":"特登的話如果他是依照現在的規定跟程序合法化跟做改善的話他是可以的但是如果說他沒有完成相關的改善是不允許的那個跟國土計畫法無關了我現在要講的是說工廠福島法排除了這個國土計畫法的管制農發條例也排除了國土計畫法的管制可能這個能源再生條例也會排除國土計畫法的管制所以我現在看你們大家都在講說"},{"start":202.236,"end":202.456,"text":"這是事實嗎?我們來解釋一下啦吼。"},{"start":218.783,"end":240.664,"text":"解釋一下國土保育區大家最擔心的就被劃入國土保育區嘛國土保育區我們來看農業現有這個分類的農業區以前的那個如果劃入國土保育區第一個可以放大嗎他可不可以維持自然保育設施有設施的可不可以繼續使用國保一國保二可不可以?"},{"start":245.252,"end":267.102,"text":"可以請問一下他可不可以做生態體系保護設施?可以現在可以未來實施國土計畫以後可不可以?還是可以比較大聲的啦可以喔他可不可以得為林業使用照林苗圃林下經濟經營使用林下經濟的經營使用?可以他可不可以做林業經營的管理設施?可以"},{"start":268.575,"end":271.64,"text":"他可不可以做森林經營管理的職工宿舍辦公室?兩公頃以下還是可以,他可不可以做其他林業設施?"},{"start":281.963,"end":305.104,"text":"這都要經過申請兩公頃以下都可以所以還可以他現在是森林遊樂設施未來的管理服務設施在國保一國保二可不可以還是可以還是可以遊器服務設施對就現有已經核准了現有已經核准了都沒有影響只有新增設的不可以對可不可以做這個住宿及附屬設施森林遊樂設施裡面"},{"start":307.271,"end":314.473,"text":"這個一樣要經過申請審查才可以。申請審查一樣可以,那請問可不可以做農作使用?農作使用也是依照它原來的…你原來許可可以的就可以,只是不能夠再新增?沒錯。可不可以做農田水利設施?如果原來都有經過申請的還是都可以。"},{"start":329.403,"end":330.244,"text":"請問各位做農作產銷設施生產設施管理設施"},{"start":339.653,"end":363.407,"text":"國保一國保二都是既有的?既有的通通都可以維持原狀不會拆還可以繼續使用可以做農作生產設施管理設施加工設施集運設施既有的都可以水產設施既有的你現在在做的都可以只有你不可以再申請那畜牧設施也一樣喔"},{"start":365.236,"end":381.177,"text":"可以續養設施、養情、養畜牧業都可以?是,就原有合法申請都可以。農業,那我問你農舍可不可以?農舍這就必須要回到農法條例。農法條例說可以就可以,可不可以做民宿?"},{"start":383.206,"end":408.723,"text":"民宿就要由各地方政府自己依照這個當地所謂偏遠地區的認定相關的民宿是限於原區域計劃你原來所編定是農牧用地、林業用地、養殖用地、礦業用地要符合農發條例的規定通通都原來就有的就許可鉤炸可以的未來還可以對,原來可以的都還可以所以這個國土計畫法是洪水猛獸嗎?"},{"start":411.578,"end":411.978,"text":"國土管理署署長 林淑芬"},{"start":433.672,"end":437.036,"text":"你還要定出發展的策略目標,因為這個發展的策略目標,所以你要規劃出對應的空間秩序"},{"start":453.387,"end":453.587,"text":"是不是國土計畫法害的?"},{"start":484.942,"end":511.072,"text":"這個我們在這裡要講說不要一句都是中央不要一句都是國土計畫法我們再說一遍地方政府的國土計畫還有這個國土這個功能分區的劃設都由地方政府自己決定認為未來的發展願景要怎麼劃都由地方政府去空間規劃而即便規劃成國保一、國保二"},{"start":511.932,"end":523.747,"text":"我們仍然對從來既有的使用不會剝奪掉未來甚至有的像民宿有的像農舍都還可以繼續依照農法條例繼續蓋都可以申請然後許可"},{"start":529.573,"end":535.779,"text":"並不是如大家所擔心的這麼的這個法律這麼的不堪而我們今天在這裡要說啦我們本來是2加2全國國土計畫各縣市國土計畫再加上國土功能分區2加2加2 6年這個法律我當初在制定的時候我們就想過要給人地方政府空間和時間所以就讓他們慢慢調適"},{"start":556.776,"end":583.706,"text":"那上一次修法我們同意他說我真的來不及那我們再放寬三年變成2加3加4現在大家認為不行的理由到底是什麼是不願意去溝通還是因為不能夠唯一的變化是什麼國土計畫法實施以後唯一只有一個改變不能夠再個案變更但是也可以通案變更五年通盤檢討"},{"start":585.233,"end":592.522,"text":"不能你買一堆堆列好了這塊地馬上就要來申請變更只是不能這樣子而已說得簡單的要插台幣也不簡單啦給麻煩一塊啦只是不能夠個案變更五年的通盤檢討都可以繼續變更"},{"start":603.812,"end":627.698,"text":"我們不知道說大家為什麼現在突然就好照顧原住民喔事實上國土計畫法實施以後對於原住民族也有特殊化的土地使用管制而且比以前區域計畫法還更有彈性還包括主動給規劃農事及簡化土地申請的程序輔導原住民族住宅合法使用等等"},{"start":628.798,"end":645.996,"text":"當然也有管制的部分：原來的管制繼續管制的也有所以並不是說好像當然就是說都中央的不對洪水猛瘦這個法律不可行不是現在我們要求地方政府要扛起責任"},{"start":646.926,"end":648.288,"text":"謝謝下一位是謝依芬"}]}}}}