{"id":150182,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150182","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192f2a743cba192719b753301a1aac7f2e9f8ba9b0039caa7a6df12fd57e3ba24235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"13:02:08 - 13:13:42","影片長度":"00:11:34","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":694,"end_time":"2024-03-20T13:13:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T13:02:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1176,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（13時2分）謝謝主席。有請部長、營建署長還有原民會處長。"],["主席：請部長、署長和處長備詢。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。對我們原住民來講，這個國土計畫法其實是很重要的，因為從賴副總統的舊厝，也就是礦區那個房子的案例，其實它暴露出多少原住民這幾十年來的困境，他們也需要被解決，所以我們對國土計畫法的上路，其實是非常的期待。我記得109年4月17日剛來立法院，就碰到國土計畫法三讀修正通過，我在三讀後發言時，特別提到多出來的這個3年，一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求，寬列經費給縣市政府，因為他們必須要有一些調查之類的基本工，非常感謝內政部營建署編列1億給地方縣市政府去做部落環境的基本調查或是去做部落溝通。針對這件事情，當然我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝，因為讓他們增加了非常多的工作跟時間。","我想請教部長，縣市政府從核定日起4個月內需完成招標，結案後1個月內要檢送執行成果報告，本席想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案？"],["林部長右昌：委員，這個應該是新的案子，是去年9月18號的時候核定，所以現在應該都還在進行當中。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以我就是要問這個問題，為什麼？因為國土計畫法明年4月30日前要完成公告，地方政府也要在今年6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部，而內政部也一直標榜國土計畫法是第一部納入原住民族空間規劃的法令，也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的，並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則。所以我想請教部長、署長，國土計畫法能不能依法如期上路？"],["林部長右昌：目前我們正在努力。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以就是努力當中，有點辛苦！我要跟部長溝通的是，其實我們部落也很辛苦，幾乎都在做部落說明會，聽完說明會，他們有很多很多的問題會跑來問我們，也有很多的謠言，我也不知道那是不是謠言，總之他們會覺得自己的地被劃入國保一、國保二，就會怎麼樣、怎麼樣，為什麼不能被納入農三、城四？對我們原住民來講，我們都知道像這些災害潛勢區、水源水質保護區、國家公園，其實都會納入國保一。我們也瞭解如果我住在這些國保一、國保二的地方，但我的既有住宅是105年5月1號以前的，可以把它變成合法用地，本席想知道，部落的這些公共設施、未來的新增住宅要怎麼樣因地制宜？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，這也是委員努力在爭取地區整體規劃很重要的目的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是啊！很重要！"],["吳署長欣修：你可以透過鄉規，這些地都會被找得出來。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，我知道。我們現在的重點及困境是，我看到這個資料，原住民居住的地區在環境敏感地區是高達45%。"],["吳署長欣修：我瞭解。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，所以我現在就是要知道，您一定會想要告訴我嘛，因為我之前質詢過，也一直在問，根據原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定，我現在就是想要知道，我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，基本上原住民族地區的土管就是follow那一個，你擔心的是，譬如我是在土石流的地區，那麼我們會依據這個潛勢圖，透過3D整理規劃，然後做相關必要的地形地質探勘，再把它做更細緻化的分類，這樣才能找出真正適合的。所以為什麼那件事情很重要……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：去年8月我看到你們第39次的研商會議紀錄，國土署有要求，到底國保一跟農四之間，就是您剛剛說的，它的面積有多少？受影響的會有多少？要去盤點嗎？結果如何？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，各個鄉規都有在處理；第二個要告訴委員的，只要這些原則……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：也就是都還沒有盤出來啦！"],["吳署長欣修：到時候這些東西出來，放到原住民土管，現在已經放上去了，它是會優於我們一般國土的土管。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，「會優於」，我就是要你這句話。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝署長。","接著要請教原民會的杜張處長，被劃入國保一、國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則？剛才署長其實也講了。"],["杜張處長梅莊：原則上，我們目前那個管制規則裡面訂的條文，就是剛剛委員提的這兩個區塊，事實上都有例外的處理，譬如易淹水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區，可能危及到生命財產安全，我們在管制上會有例外；至於其他部分會開放讓他們……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。我希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則，適度開放原住民族地區國土保育區的規則，落實我們一直在講的因地制宜，好嗎？","另外一個問題，108年的國土計畫法，我看到我們當時的手冊本來是要匡部落四點，後來是以15戶或50人的聚落；我在109年3月第一次的質詢，也提到3戶以上的部分，後來就有微型聚落；112年10月我的質詢又提到獨立戶的部分，因為有非常多人關心，當時也說會例外規定，現在我就在想，會不會拿去縣市做一個認定，還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則，由中央法規統一規定？"],["杜張處長梅莊：跟委員報告，關於這個部分，事實上我們在去年10月就發函給各地方政府來蒐集一些資料，我們也會把這些意見納入這次的原住民族土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來處理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：會由縣市政府認定嗎？"],["杜張處長梅莊：我們原則上是……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：千萬不要。"],["杜張處長梅莊：我們會在中央的規則去訂，有關內容、使用規則、使用項目會是什麼。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我想請問署長，明年上路以後，如果我想要申請新建住宅，因為大家都以為我們105年以前的用地可以合法化了，以後我們就可以來申請使用執照，農地以後也可以蓋房子，真的是這樣嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：那是建築物合法的部分。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對啊！但是大家聽完說明會都這樣以為，有很多的憧憬。應該還要做鄉村規劃嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：是的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，可能原住民地區對於建築的理解比較……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：沒關係，我都有幫忙說明了。"],["吳署長欣修：我知道。對於建築的理解比較單一啦，他忘記如果按照現行的……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：要鄉規嘛，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：第一個鄉規；第二個還有相對應的建築物的配套設施都要符合，這也是他們必須要理解的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。所以你們有補助，我們也要求補助嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮，你們在110年、111年、112年補助的鄉鎮是11個，占比是24%，我就不曉得55個原鄉要排到什麼時候，你們有規劃嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：其實是要鼓勵他們來申請，基本上只要他們願意來申請……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是啊！我現在就是有點緊張，署長知道嗎，去年8月我幫忙做了一件事，我邀請這11個已經申請到鄉規的鄉鎮一起來座談，要求他們公布他們做的東西，結果都是圖片，紙上談兵而已，最重要的工程細部規劃，還有那些基礎設施、排水、道路等等都沒有，表示大家都沒有概念！你問他怎麼會這麼簡單，這個鄉規以後怎麼拿出來去解決問題？他說只有300萬要怎麼做，請問這要怎麼辦？"],["吳署長欣修：其實我們最少有850萬，不是只有300萬。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為現在大家有很多的憧憬，我們希望不要失信於民，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：不要畫那個大餅，空歡喜一場！所以我就要請原民會主委，針對105年5月1號前這個居住用地輔導合法化期程，這也是你們在會議中說要訂定的，不知道訂定了沒有？同時也要請國土署署長，那些既有建物的調查統計數據也要拿出來。","主席，不好意思，最後1分鐘。我就直接要求，因為工廠管理輔導辦法第七項有定落日條款，可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶，它的落日是20年，我就不曉得我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款？我們這些既有建物到底幾戶，統計出來了沒有？到底要訂定多少年？這些我都不知道。所以我在這裡直接要求，第一個，訂定輔導期限的落日條款，而且要明定中央和地方政府的輔導責任，這樣可以嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：好，這個部分我們會再來討論，包含相關的權責。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：一定要討論，而且我聽到很多委員都會說，為什麼原住民可以？你們是因地制宜喔。我們認為這個土地因為地理環境的位置，它有不同的利用條件，就像平地的建蔽率怎麼可能跟山上的建蔽率一樣？平地的農地坡度怎麼可能跟山上的農地坡度一樣？尤其我們臺灣的地形是這麼的獨特，早就應該要有這種因地制宜的土地管制規則，我們很高興這一波就上路。這個原住民族土地管制規則原本依照你們的規定是今年1月就要預告，現在是3月，我希望4月就來預告，好嗎？如果沒有搭配這個進行部落的說明，我跟各位講，我們族人都聽不懂，因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定，這樣好嗎？謝謝署長、謝謝處長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，辛苦了。","下一位是徐富癸委員，請提出質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃仁","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","黃國昌","林淑芬","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","黃健豪","麥玉珍","林德福","陳俊宇","劉建國","王鴻薇","張啓楷"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131601_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150182","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150182","tool":"pyannote","id":"150182-pyannote"},"job_id":"q919DSEX4BtECVyi","queued_at":"2024-06-01 23:13:11","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 23:13:47","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150182"},{"time":"2024-06-01 23:13:48","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f192f2a743cba192719b753301a1aac7f2e9e1d6f63d8c2db1b96a1f6f98b4a2bf775ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 23:14:08","msg":"converting mp4 to 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00:00:50,876\n對我們原住民來講這個國土計畫法其實對我們來講是很重要的因為從賴副總統他的舊錯礦區的房子那個案例其實他曝露的是多少原住民幾十年來的困境他也需要被解決所以我們對於國土計畫法的上路我們其實是非常的期待\n\n3\n00:00:51,716 --> 00:01:08,073\n那我記得我來立法院109年的4月17剛好就碰到了國土計畫法修正三讀通過我記得我當時在三讀發言我有特別提到多出來的這個三年一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求來寬列\n\n4\n00:01:10,195 --> 00:01:35,043\n給縣市政府經費因為他必須要有一些調查之類的基本工那非常感謝我們內政部營建署我們也編列了一億給地方縣市政府來去做部落環境的基本調查或者是去做部落溝通那當然這件事情我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝因為替他們增加了非常多的一個工作跟時間我想請教部長\n\n5\n00:01:37,544 --> 00:01:47,629\n縣市政府從合定日起4個月內需完成招標,結案後1個月內要檢証執行成果報告。我就想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案?委員這個應該是新的案子因為這是去年9月18號的時候來合定所以現在應該都還在進行當中\n\n6\n00:01:58,999 --> 00:02:14,007\n所以我就是要問這個問題為什麼因為國土計畫法明年4月30前要完成公告那地方政府也要在今年的6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部那我看到我們內政部也一直標榜\n\n7\n00:02:14,947 --> 00:02:34,814\n國土計畫法是第一步納入原住民族空間規劃的法令也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則所以我想要請教部長署長國土計畫法能不能夠依法如期上路\n\n8\n00:02:38,536 --> 00:02:57,862\n目前我們正在努力所以就是努力當中嘛有點辛苦我要跟部長其實要溝通的是說我們其實部落哇幾乎幾乎很辛苦都在做部落說明會說明會聽完了呢他們也很多很多的問題會跑來問我們\n\n9\n00:02:59,980 --> 00:03:29,270\n那有很多很多的謠言啊那我也不知道是不是謠言總之他們就會覺得說我被劃入國土國保一國保二就會怎麼樣怎麼樣那為什麼不能被納入農山城市好那大家現在最最嚴重的對我們原住民來講因為我們知道嗎像這些災害潛勢區水源水質保護區國家公園他其實都會納入國保一但是我們也了解如果我住在\n\n10\n00:03:30,691 --> 00:03:45,488\n這些國保一國保二的地方但是呢我的既有住宅就是105年5月1號以前我們都知道可以把它變成合法用地那我就想知道說這些部落公共設施未來的新增住宅他要怎麼樣因地制宜\n\n11\n00:03:48,203 --> 00:04:08,074\n這也是委員有努力在爭取鄉民地區整理規劃很重要的目的你有透過鄉規這些地區會被找得出來是我知道那現在我們的重點困境就是我們原住民所居住的地區我看這個資料他如果是在環境敏感地區是高達45%\n\n12\n00:04:10,937 --> 00:04:33,847\n所以我現在就是要知道您一定會想要告訴我嘛因為我之前質詢我也一直問嘛有原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定嗎那我現在就是想要知道我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則他到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則我說明一下因為基本上原住民族地區他的土管就是FARO那一個\n\n13\n00:04:34,409 --> 00:04:52,271\n但是你要擔心的是說像比如說我是土石流的地區那我們會依據這個潛勢圖然後也透過相關地區整理做必要的相關的地形地址的這個探勘再把它做一個更細緻化的分類這樣才能找出真正適合的\n\n14\n00:04:53,012 --> 00:04:55,895\n所以我去年8月我有看到我們的第39次的研商會議記錄那國土署你有要求因為到底這個國保1跟農事之間就是您剛剛說的到底它的面積有多少受影響的會有多少要去盤點嗎結果如何\n\n15\n00:05:13,952 --> 00:05:31,202\n跟委員報告就當然各個相規都有在處理啦那第二個也會告訴委員就說只要這個原則就是說這些原則在原住民那也就是都還沒有盤出來啦還沒有盤出來啦到時候這些東西出來放到原住民圖板現在已經放在圖板\n\n16\n00:05:31,582 --> 00:05:45,912\n她是會優於我們一般國土的﹖好我就要你這句話會優於嗎好謝謝署長那我請教一下那個原民會的杜璋處長那被劃入國保一國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則剛才署長其實也講了\n\n17\n00:05:49,079 --> 00:06:07,095\n原則上我們目前那個管制規則裏面訂的條文就是剛剛你提的這兩個區塊吼那我本身上例外的處理啦比如說一淵水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區可能這個危及到生命財產安全我們會有在管制上會提及但是其他的部分會\n\n18\n00:06:09,257 --> 00:06:26,947\n我現在就是希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則去適度開放這一些原住民族地區的國土保育區的規則落實我們一直在講的因地制宜好不好那另外也是有一個問題因為108年國土計畫法他呢當時我看到我們的手冊點來是要框部落4點啦那後來呢以15戶或50人的聚落\n\n19\n00:06:37,593 --> 00:07:03,188\n我在109年3月我的第一次質詢我就有提到說那3戶以上的後來就有微型聚落那112年10月我又質詢那個獨立戶的因為非常多人關心當時也說會例外規定那現在我就是想說會不會拿去縣市做一個認定還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則由中央法規統一規定\n\n20\n00:07:06,633 --> 00:07:21,629\n各位委員報告齁這個部分我們事實上在去年的10月就有發函給各地方政府來收集一些資料那我們目前會把這些意見就是納入我們這次的這個原住民的土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來那會有縣市政府認定嗎\n\n21\n00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:28,831\n我現在就是繼續問請問一下如果我想要申請新建住宅其實明年上路以後大家都會以為說105年以前我們的用地就可以合法化了以後我們就可以來申請使用執照那農地以後也可以蓋房子嗎真的是這樣嗎\n\n22\n00:07:51,198 --> 00:07:53,362\n署長,署長真的是這樣嗎?那是建築物合法的部分啊對啊但是大家聽完說明會都以為啊很多的憧憬啊\n\n23\n00:08:05,155 --> 00:08:23,803\n應該還要做鄉村規劃嗎?對嘛!我都有幫忙說明了!我知道!對建築的理解比較單一啦!他忘記如果按照...要鄉規嘛!對不對?第一個鄉規第二個你還有相對應的建築物的配套設施是!是!是!\n\n24\n00:08:25,364 --> 00:08:33,791\n所以你們有補助我們也要求補助現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮你們10111212目前補助的是11個結果它的比率佔比是24%我就不曉得說55個原鄉要排到什麼時候有規劃嗎\n\n25\n00:08:44,079 --> 00:08:48,383\n要鼓勵他們來申請基本上他只要願意來申請我現在就是有點緊張署長你知道嗎我去年8月有幫忙做一件事我把這11個已經申請到相歸的我邀請他們一起來做一個座談結果我要求他們去公佈他們做的東西我跟署長講\n\n26\n00:09:02,958 --> 00:09:16,673\n都是圖片而已喔紙上談兵喔那個最重要的那些工程的細部規劃還有那些基礎設施排水道路等等等喔都沒有喔表示大家都沒有概念喔那你問他說怎麼這麼簡單這個相規怎麼以後拿出來去解決問題他說只有300萬要怎麼做喔這個怎麼辦這個怎麼辦\n\n27\n00:09:27,282 --> 00:09:49,708\n我希望現在大家有很多的憧憬我們希望不要失信於民好不好不要畫那個大餅空歡喜一場所以我就要請原民會主委就是105年5月1號前這個居住用地的輔導合法化期程這個也是會議中你們說要訂的不知道訂好了沒有那國土署的我們的署長我也要請教那些既有建物的調查統計數據\n\n28\n00:09:51,869 --> 00:10:17,314\n也要拿出來那我不好意思主席我就最後一分鐘我就直接要求因為工廠管理輔導犯法第7項他是有定落日條款可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶他的落日是20年我就不曉得說我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款而且我們這些既有建物到底幾戶統計出來了沒有到底要訂定多少年\n\n29\n00:10:17,914 --> 00:10:27,322\n我都不知道所以我就直接要求了我是希望說第一個要定定輔導期限的落日條款而且要明定中央地方政府的輔導責任這樣可以嗎\n\n30\n00:10:30,250 --> 00:10:58,084\n好這個部分我們會再來討論那包含相關的一定要討論而且我聽到很多委員都會說為什麼原住民可以喔你們是因地制宜喔我是希望說這個因為土地它是土地地理環境的位置它有不同的一個利用條件就像平地的建壁率怎麼可能跟山上建壁率一樣平地的農地坡度怎麼可以跟山上的農地坡度一樣尤其我們台灣我們的地形是這麼獨特的地方本來早就應該要有這種因地\n\n31\n00:11:00,426 --> 00:11:07,532\n我跟各位講我們族人都聽不懂因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定這樣好嗎\n\n32\n00:11:27,589 --> 00:11:28,451\n謝謝署長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9747\t17217\t謝謝主席有請部長、營建署長還有原民會好,請部長、署長和署長備詢部長好對\n24711\t50876\t對我們原住民來講這個國土計畫法其實對我們來講是很重要的因為從賴副總統他的舊錯礦區的房子那個案例其實他曝露的是多少原住民幾十年來的困境他也需要被解決所以我們對於國土計畫法的上路我們其實是非常的期待\n51716\t68073\t那我記得我來立法院109年的4月17剛好就碰到了國土計畫法修正三讀通過我記得我當時在三讀發言我有特別提到多出來的這個三年一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求來寬列\n70195\t95043\t給縣市政府經費因為他必須要有一些調查之類的基本工那非常感謝我們內政部營建署我們也編列了一億給地方縣市政府來去做部落環境的基本調查或者是去做部落溝通那當然這件事情我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝因為替他們增加了非常多的一個工作跟時間我想請教部長\n97544\t107629\t縣市政府從合定日起4個月內需完成招標,結案後1個月內要檢証執行成果報告。我就想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案?委員這個應該是新的案子因為這是去年9月18號的時候來合定所以現在應該都還在進行當中\n118999\t134007\t所以我就是要問這個問題為什麼因為國土計畫法明年4月30前要完成公告那地方政府也要在今年的6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部那我看到我們內政部也一直標榜\n134947\t154814\t國土計畫法是第一步納入原住民族空間規劃的法令也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則所以我想要請教部長署長國土計畫法能不能夠依法如期上路\n158536\t177862\t目前我們正在努力所以就是努力當中嘛有點辛苦我要跟部長其實要溝通的是說我們其實部落哇幾乎幾乎很辛苦都在做部落說明會說明會聽完了呢他們也很多很多的問題會跑來問我們\n179980\t209270\t那有很多很多的謠言啊那我也不知道是不是謠言總之他們就會覺得說我被劃入國土國保一國保二就會怎麼樣怎麼樣那為什麼不能被納入農山城市好那大家現在最最嚴重的對我們原住民來講因為我們知道嗎像這些災害潛勢區水源水質保護區國家公園他其實都會納入國保一但是我們也了解如果我住在\n210691\t225488\t這些國保一國保二的地方但是呢我的既有住宅就是105年5月1號以前我們都知道可以把它變成合法用地那我就想知道說這些部落公共設施未來的新增住宅他要怎麼樣因地制宜\n228203\t248074\t這也是委員有努力在爭取鄉民地區整理規劃很重要的目的你有透過鄉規這些地區會被找得出來是我知道那現在我們的重點困境就是我們原住民所居住的地區我看這個資料他如果是在環境敏感地區是高達45%\n250937\t273847\t所以我現在就是要知道您一定會想要告訴我嘛因為我之前質詢我也一直問嘛有原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定嗎那我現在就是想要知道我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則他到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則我說明一下因為基本上原住民族地區他的土管就是FARO那一個\n274409\t292271\t但是你要擔心的是說像比如說我是土石流的地區那我們會依據這個潛勢圖然後也透過相關地區整理做必要的相關的地形地址的這個探勘再把它做一個更細緻化的分類這樣才能找出真正適合的\n293012\t295895\t所以我去年8月我有看到我們的第39次的研商會議記錄那國土署你有要求因為到底這個國保1跟農事之間就是您剛剛說的到底它的面積有多少受影響的會有多少要去盤點嗎結果如何\n313952\t331202\t跟委員報告就當然各個相規都有在處理啦那第二個也會告訴委員就說只要這個原則就是說這些原則在原住民那也就是都還沒有盤出來啦還沒有盤出來啦到時候這些東西出來放到原住民圖板現在已經放在圖板\n331582\t345912\t她是會優於我們一般國土的﹖好我就要你這句話會優於嗎好謝謝署長那我請教一下那個原民會的杜璋處長那被劃入國保一國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則剛才署長其實也講了\n349079\t367095\t原則上我們目前那個管制規則裏面訂的條文就是剛剛你提的這兩個區塊吼那我本身上例外的處理啦比如說一淵水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區可能這個危及到生命財產安全我們會有在管制上會提及但是其他的部分會\n369257\t386947\t我現在就是希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則去適度開放這一些原住民族地區的國土保育區的規則落實我們一直在講的因地制宜好不好那另外也是有一個問題因為108年國土計畫法他呢當時我看到我們的手冊點來是要框部落4點啦那後來呢以15戶或50人的聚落\n397593\t423188\t我在109年3月我的第一次質詢我就有提到說那3戶以上的後來就有微型聚落那112年10月我又質詢那個獨立戶的因為非常多人關心當時也說會例外規定那現在我就是想說會不會拿去縣市做一個認定還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則由中央法規統一規定\n426633\t441629\t各位委員報告齁 這個部分我們事實上在去年的10月就有發函給各地方政府來收集一些資料那我們目前會把這些意見就是納入我們這次的這個原住民的土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來那會有縣市政府認定嗎\n442610\t448831\t我現在就是繼續問請問一下如果我想要申請新建住宅其實明年上路以後大家都會以為說105年以前我們的用地就可以合法化了以後我們就可以來申請使用執照那農地以後也可以蓋房子嗎真的是這樣嗎\n471198\t473362\t署長,署長真的是這樣嗎?那是建築物合法的部分啊對啊但是大家聽完說明會都以為啊很多的憧憬啊\n485155\t503803\t應該還要做鄉村規劃嗎?對嘛!我都有幫忙說明了!我知道!對建築的理解比較單一啦!他忘記如果按照...要鄉規嘛!對不對?第一個鄉規第二個你還有相對應的建築物的配套設施是!是!是!\n505364\t513791\t所以你們有補助我們也要求補助現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮你們10111212目前補助的是11個結果它的比率佔比是24%我就不曉得說55個原鄉要排到什麼時候有規劃嗎\n524079\t528383\t要鼓勵他們來申請基本上他只要願意來申請我現在就是有點緊張署長你知道嗎我去年8月有幫忙做一件事我把這11個已經申請到相歸的我邀請他們一起來做一個座談結果我要求他們去公佈他們做的東西我跟署長講\n542958\t556673\t都是圖片而已喔紙上談兵喔那個最重要的那些工程的細部規劃還有那些基礎設施排水道路等等等喔都沒有喔表示大家都沒有概念喔那你問他說怎麼這麼簡單這個相規怎麼以後拿出來去解決問題他說只有300萬要怎麼做喔這個怎麼辦 這個怎麼辦\n567282\t589708\t我希望現在大家有很多的憧憬我們希望不要失信於民好不好不要畫那個大餅空歡喜一場所以我就要請原民會主委就是105年5月1號前這個居住用地的輔導合法化期程這個也是會議中你們說要訂的不知道訂好了沒有那國土署的我們的署長我也要請教那些既有建物的調查統計數據\n591869\t617314\t也要拿出來那我不好意思主席我就最後一分鐘我就直接要求因為工廠管理輔導犯法第7項他是有定落日條款可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶他的落日是20年我就不曉得說我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款而且我們這些既有建物到底幾戶統計出來了沒有到底要訂定多少年\n617914\t627322\t我都不知道所以我就直接要求了我是希望說第一個要定定輔導期限的落日條款而且要明定中央地方政府的輔導責任這樣可以嗎\n630250\t658084\t好 這個部分我們會再來討論那包含相關的一定要討論而且我聽到很多委員都會說為什麼原住民可以喔你們是因地制宜喔我是希望說這個因為土地它是土地地理環境的位置它有不同的一個利用條件就像平地的建壁率怎麼可能跟山上建壁率一樣平地的農地坡度怎麼可以跟山上的農地坡度一樣尤其我們台灣我們的地形是這麼獨特的地方本來早就應該要有這種因地\n660426\t667532\t我跟各位講我們族人都聽不懂因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定這樣好嗎\n687589\t688451\t謝謝署長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長、營建署長還有原民會好,請部長、署長和署長備詢部長好對\n對我們原住民來講這個國土計畫法其實對我們來講是很重要的因為從賴副總統他的舊錯礦區的房子那個案例其實他曝露的是多少原住民幾十年來的困境他也需要被解決所以我們對於國土計畫法的上路我們其實是非常的期待\n那我記得我來立法院109年的4月17剛好就碰到了國土計畫法修正三讀通過我記得我當時在三讀發言我有特別提到多出來的這個三年一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求來寬列\n給縣市政府經費因為他必須要有一些調查之類的基本工那非常感謝我們內政部營建署我們也編列了一億給地方縣市政府來去做部落環境的基本調查或者是去做部落溝通那當然這件事情我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝因為替他們增加了非常多的一個工作跟時間我想請教部長\n縣市政府從合定日起4個月內需完成招標,結案後1個月內要檢証執行成果報告。我就想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案?委員這個應該是新的案子因為這是去年9月18號的時候來合定所以現在應該都還在進行當中\n所以我就是要問這個問題為什麼因為國土計畫法明年4月30前要完成公告那地方政府也要在今年的6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部那我看到我們內政部也一直標榜\n國土計畫法是第一步納入原住民族空間規劃的法令也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則所以我想要請教部長署長國土計畫法能不能夠依法如期上路\n目前我們正在努力所以就是努力當中嘛有點辛苦我要跟部長其實要溝通的是說我們其實部落哇幾乎幾乎很辛苦都在做部落說明會說明會聽完了呢他們也很多很多的問題會跑來問我們\n那有很多很多的謠言啊那我也不知道是不是謠言總之他們就會覺得說我被劃入國土國保一國保二就會怎麼樣怎麼樣那為什麼不能被納入農山城市好那大家現在最最嚴重的對我們原住民來講因為我們知道嗎像這些災害潛勢區水源水質保護區國家公園他其實都會納入國保一但是我們也了解如果我住在\n這些國保一國保二的地方但是呢我的既有住宅就是105年5月1號以前我們都知道可以把它變成合法用地那我就想知道說這些部落公共設施未來的新增住宅他要怎麼樣因地制宜\n這也是委員有努力在爭取鄉民地區整理規劃很重要的目的你有透過鄉規這些地區會被找得出來是我知道那現在我們的重點困境就是我們原住民所居住的地區我看這個資料他如果是在環境敏感地區是高達45%\n所以我現在就是要知道您一定會想要告訴我嘛因為我之前質詢我也一直問嘛有原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定嗎那我現在就是想要知道我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則他到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則我說明一下因為基本上原住民族地區他的土管就是FARO那一個\n但是你要擔心的是說像比如說我是土石流的地區那我們會依據這個潛勢圖然後也透過相關地區整理做必要的相關的地形地址的這個探勘再把它做一個更細緻化的分類這樣才能找出真正適合的\n所以我去年8月我有看到我們的第39次的研商會議記錄那國土署你有要求因為到底這個國保1跟農事之間就是您剛剛說的到底它的面積有多少受影響的會有多少要去盤點嗎結果如何\n跟委員報告就當然各個相規都有在處理啦那第二個也會告訴委員就說只要這個原則就是說這些原則在原住民那也就是都還沒有盤出來啦還沒有盤出來啦到時候這些東西出來放到原住民圖板現在已經放在圖板\n她是會優於我們一般國土的﹖好我就要你這句話會優於嗎好謝謝署長那我請教一下那個原民會的杜璋處長那被劃入國保一國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則剛才署長其實也講了\n原則上我們目前那個管制規則裏面訂的條文就是剛剛你提的這兩個區塊吼那我本身上例外的處理啦比如說一淵水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區可能這個危及到生命財產安全我們會有在管制上會提及但是其他的部分會\n我現在就是希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則去適度開放這一些原住民族地區的國土保育區的規則落實我們一直在講的因地制宜好不好那另外也是有一個問題因為108年國土計畫法他呢當時我看到我們的手冊點來是要框部落4點啦那後來呢以15戶或50人的聚落\n我在109年3月我的第一次質詢我就有提到說那3戶以上的後來就有微型聚落那112年10月我又質詢那個獨立戶的因為非常多人關心當時也說會例外規定那現在我就是想說會不會拿去縣市做一個認定還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則由中央法規統一規定\n各位委員報告齁 這個部分我們事實上在去年的10月就有發函給各地方政府來收集一些資料那我們目前會把這些意見就是納入我們這次的這個原住民的土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來那會有縣市政府認定嗎\n我現在就是繼續問請問一下如果我想要申請新建住宅其實明年上路以後大家都會以為說105年以前我們的用地就可以合法化了以後我們就可以來申請使用執照那農地以後也可以蓋房子嗎真的是這樣嗎\n署長,署長真的是這樣嗎?那是建築物合法的部分啊對啊但是大家聽完說明會都以為啊很多的憧憬啊\n應該還要做鄉村規劃嗎?對嘛!我都有幫忙說明了!我知道!對建築的理解比較單一啦!他忘記如果按照...要鄉規嘛!對不對?第一個鄉規第二個你還有相對應的建築物的配套設施是!是!是!\n所以你們有補助我們也要求補助現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮你們10111212目前補助的是11個結果它的比率佔比是24%我就不曉得說55個原鄉要排到什麼時候有規劃嗎\n要鼓勵他們來申請基本上他只要願意來申請我現在就是有點緊張署長你知道嗎我去年8月有幫忙做一件事我把這11個已經申請到相歸的我邀請他們一起來做一個座談結果我要求他們去公佈他們做的東西我跟署長講\n都是圖片而已喔紙上談兵喔那個最重要的那些工程的細部規劃還有那些基礎設施排水道路等等等喔都沒有喔表示大家都沒有概念喔那你問他說怎麼這麼簡單這個相規怎麼以後拿出來去解決問題他說只有300萬要怎麼做喔這個怎麼辦 這個怎麼辦\n我希望現在大家有很多的憧憬我們希望不要失信於民好不好不要畫那個大餅空歡喜一場所以我就要請原民會主委就是105年5月1號前這個居住用地的輔導合法化期程這個也是會議中你們說要訂的不知道訂好了沒有那國土署的我們的署長我也要請教那些既有建物的調查統計數據\n也要拿出來那我不好意思主席我就最後一分鐘我就直接要求因為工廠管理輔導犯法第7項他是有定落日條款可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶他的落日是20年我就不曉得說我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款而且我們這些既有建物到底幾戶統計出來了沒有到底要訂定多少年\n我都不知道所以我就直接要求了我是希望說第一個要定定輔導期限的落日條款而且要明定中央地方政府的輔導責任這樣可以嗎\n好 這個部分我們會再來討論那包含相關的一定要討論而且我聽到很多委員都會說為什麼原住民可以喔你們是因地制宜喔我是希望說這個因為土地它是土地地理環境的位置它有不同的一個利用條件就像平地的建壁率怎麼可能跟山上建壁率一樣平地的農地坡度怎麼可以跟山上的農地坡度一樣尤其我們台灣我們的地形是這麼獨特的地方本來早就應該要有這種因地\n我跟各位講我們族人都聽不懂因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定這樣好嗎\n謝謝署長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.747 --> 00:17.217\n謝謝主席有請部長、營建署長還有原民會好,請部長、署長和署長備詢部長好對\n\n00:24.711 --> 00:50.876\n對我們原住民來講這個國土計畫法其實對我們來講是很重要的因為從賴副總統他的舊錯礦區的房子那個案例其實他曝露的是多少原住民幾十年來的困境他也需要被解決所以我們對於國土計畫法的上路我們其實是非常的期待\n\n00:51.716 --> 01:08.073\n那我記得我來立法院109年的4月17剛好就碰到了國土計畫法修正三讀通過我記得我當時在三讀發言我有特別提到多出來的這個三年一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求來寬列\n\n01:10.195 --> 01:35.043\n給縣市政府經費因為他必須要有一些調查之類的基本工那非常感謝我們內政部營建署我們也編列了一億給地方縣市政府來去做部落環境的基本調查或者是去做部落溝通那當然這件事情我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝因為替他們增加了非常多的一個工作跟時間我想請教部長\n\n01:37.544 --> 01:47.629\n縣市政府從合定日起4個月內需完成招標,結案後1個月內要檢証執行成果報告。我就想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案?委員這個應該是新的案子因為這是去年9月18號的時候來合定所以現在應該都還在進行當中\n\n01:58.999 --> 02:14.007\n所以我就是要問這個問題為什麼因為國土計畫法明年4月30前要完成公告那地方政府也要在今年的6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部那我看到我們內政部也一直標榜\n\n02:14.947 --> 02:34.814\n國土計畫法是第一步納入原住民族空間規劃的法令也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則所以我想要請教部長署長國土計畫法能不能夠依法如期上路\n\n02:38.536 --> 02:57.862\n目前我們正在努力所以就是努力當中嘛有點辛苦我要跟部長其實要溝通的是說我們其實部落哇幾乎幾乎很辛苦都在做部落說明會說明會聽完了呢他們也很多很多的問題會跑來問我們\n\n02:59.980 --> 03:29.270\n那有很多很多的謠言啊那我也不知道是不是謠言總之他們就會覺得說我被劃入國土國保一國保二就會怎麼樣怎麼樣那為什麼不能被納入農山城市好那大家現在最最嚴重的對我們原住民來講因為我們知道嗎像這些災害潛勢區水源水質保護區國家公園他其實都會納入國保一但是我們也了解如果我住在\n\n03:30.691 --> 03:45.488\n這些國保一國保二的地方但是呢我的既有住宅就是105年5月1號以前我們都知道可以把它變成合法用地那我就想知道說這些部落公共設施未來的新增住宅他要怎麼樣因地制宜\n\n03:48.203 --> 04:08.074\n這也是委員有努力在爭取鄉民地區整理規劃很重要的目的你有透過鄉規這些地區會被找得出來是我知道那現在我們的重點困境就是我們原住民所居住的地區我看這個資料他如果是在環境敏感地區是高達45%\n\n04:10.937 --> 04:33.847\n所以我現在就是要知道您一定會想要告訴我嘛因為我之前質詢我也一直問嘛有原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定嗎那我現在就是想要知道我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則他到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則我說明一下因為基本上原住民族地區他的土管就是FARO那一個\n\n04:34.409 --> 04:52.271\n但是你要擔心的是說像比如說我是土石流的地區那我們會依據這個潛勢圖然後也透過相關地區整理做必要的相關的地形地址的這個探勘再把它做一個更細緻化的分類這樣才能找出真正適合的\n\n04:53.012 --> 04:55.895\n所以我去年8月我有看到我們的第39次的研商會議記錄那國土署你有要求因為到底這個國保1跟農事之間就是您剛剛說的到底它的面積有多少受影響的會有多少要去盤點嗎結果如何\n\n05:13.952 --> 05:31.202\n跟委員報告就當然各個相規都有在處理啦那第二個也會告訴委員就說只要這個原則就是說這些原則在原住民那也就是都還沒有盤出來啦還沒有盤出來啦到時候這些東西出來放到原住民圖板現在已經放在圖板\n\n05:31.582 --> 05:45.912\n她是會優於我們一般國土的﹖好我就要你這句話會優於嗎好謝謝署長那我請教一下那個原民會的杜璋處長那被劃入國保一國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則剛才署長其實也講了\n\n05:49.079 --> 06:07.095\n原則上我們目前那個管制規則裏面訂的條文就是剛剛你提的這兩個區塊吼那我本身上例外的處理啦比如說一淵水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區可能這個危及到生命財產安全我們會有在管制上會提及但是其他的部分會\n\n06:09.257 --> 06:26.947\n我現在就是希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則去適度開放這一些原住民族地區的國土保育區的規則落實我們一直在講的因地制宜好不好那另外也是有一個問題因為108年國土計畫法他呢當時我看到我們的手冊點來是要框部落4點啦那後來呢以15戶或50人的聚落\n\n06:37.593 --> 07:03.188\n我在109年3月我的第一次質詢我就有提到說那3戶以上的後來就有微型聚落那112年10月我又質詢那個獨立戶的因為非常多人關心當時也說會例外規定那現在我就是想說會不會拿去縣市做一個認定還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則由中央法規統一規定\n\n07:06.633 --> 07:21.629\n各位委員報告齁這個部分我們事實上在去年的10月就有發函給各地方政府來收集一些資料那我們目前會把這些意見就是納入我們這次的這個原住民的土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來那會有縣市政府認定嗎\n\n07:22.610 --> 07:28.831\n我現在就是繼續問請問一下如果我想要申請新建住宅其實明年上路以後大家都會以為說105年以前我們的用地就可以合法化了以後我們就可以來申請使用執照那農地以後也可以蓋房子嗎真的是這樣嗎\n\n07:51.198 --> 07:53.362\n署長,署長真的是這樣嗎?那是建築物合法的部分啊對啊但是大家聽完說明會都以為啊很多的憧憬啊\n\n08:05.155 --> 08:23.803\n應該還要做鄉村規劃嗎?對嘛!我都有幫忙說明了!我知道!對建築的理解比較單一啦!他忘記如果按照...要鄉規嘛!對不對?第一個鄉規第二個你還有相對應的建築物的配套設施是!是!是!\n\n08:25.364 --> 08:33.791\n所以你們有補助我們也要求補助現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮你們10111212目前補助的是11個結果它的比率佔比是24%我就不曉得說55個原鄉要排到什麼時候有規劃嗎\n\n08:44.079 --> 08:48.383\n要鼓勵他們來申請基本上他只要願意來申請我現在就是有點緊張署長你知道嗎我去年8月有幫忙做一件事我把這11個已經申請到相歸的我邀請他們一起來做一個座談結果我要求他們去公佈他們做的東西我跟署長講\n\n09:02.958 --> 09:16.673\n都是圖片而已喔紙上談兵喔那個最重要的那些工程的細部規劃還有那些基礎設施排水道路等等等喔都沒有喔表示大家都沒有概念喔那你問他說怎麼這麼簡單這個相規怎麼以後拿出來去解決問題他說只有300萬要怎麼做喔這個怎麼辦這個怎麼辦\n\n09:27.282 --> 09:49.708\n我希望現在大家有很多的憧憬我們希望不要失信於民好不好不要畫那個大餅空歡喜一場所以我就要請原民會主委就是105年5月1號前這個居住用地的輔導合法化期程這個也是會議中你們說要訂的不知道訂好了沒有那國土署的我們的署長我也要請教那些既有建物的調查統計數據\n\n09:51.869 --> 10:17.314\n也要拿出來那我不好意思主席我就最後一分鐘我就直接要求因為工廠管理輔導犯法第7項他是有定落日條款可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶他的落日是20年我就不曉得說我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款而且我們這些既有建物到底幾戶統計出來了沒有到底要訂定多少年\n\n10:17.914 --> 10:27.322\n我都不知道所以我就直接要求了我是希望說第一個要定定輔導期限的落日條款而且要明定中央地方政府的輔導責任這樣可以嗎\n\n10:30.250 --> 10:58.084\n好這個部分我們會再來討論那包含相關的一定要討論而且我聽到很多委員都會說為什麼原住民可以喔你們是因地制宜喔我是希望說這個因為土地它是土地地理環境的位置它有不同的一個利用條件就像平地的建壁率怎麼可能跟山上建壁率一樣平地的農地坡度怎麼可以跟山上的農地坡度一樣尤其我們台灣我們的地形是這麼獨特的地方本來早就應該要有這種因地\n\n11:00.426 --> 11:07.532\n我跟各位講我們族人都聽不懂因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定這樣好嗎\n\n11:27.589 --> 11:28.451\n謝謝署長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.747,"end":17.217,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長、營建署長還有原民會好,請部長、署長和署長備詢部長好對"},{"start":24.711,"end":50.876,"text":"對我們原住民來講這個國土計畫法其實對我們來講是很重要的因為從賴副總統他的舊錯礦區的房子那個案例其實他曝露的是多少原住民幾十年來的困境他也需要被解決所以我們對於國土計畫法的上路我們其實是非常的期待"},{"start":51.716,"end":68.073,"text":"那我記得我來立法院109年的4月17剛好就碰到了國土計畫法修正三讀通過我記得我當時在三讀發言我有特別提到多出來的這個三年一定要考量原住民欠缺的這些用地需求來寬列"},{"start":70.195,"end":95.043,"text":"給縣市政府經費因為他必須要有一些調查之類的基本工那非常感謝我們內政部營建署我們也編列了一億給地方縣市政府來去做部落環境的基本調查或者是去做部落溝通那當然這件事情我也要向所有縣市的公務員說一聲感謝因為替他們增加了非常多的一個工作跟時間我想請教部長"},{"start":97.544,"end":107.629,"text":"縣市政府從合定日起4個月內需完成招標,結案後1個月內要檢証執行成果報告。我就想知道目前有哪些縣市已經結案?委員這個應該是新的案子因為這是去年9月18號的時候來合定所以現在應該都還在進行當中"},{"start":118.999,"end":134.007,"text":"所以我就是要問這個問題為什麼因為國土計畫法明年4月30前要完成公告那地方政府也要在今年的6月底前把這個國土功能分區提交內政部那我看到我們內政部也一直標榜"},{"start":134.947,"end":154.814,"text":"國土計畫法是第一步納入原住民族空間規劃的法令也特別提到它對於我們的青年返鄉是很有幫助的並且一直標榜我們是做因地制宜的土地管制規則所以我想要請教部長署長國土計畫法能不能夠依法如期上路"},{"start":158.536,"end":177.862,"text":"目前我們正在努力所以就是努力當中嘛有點辛苦我要跟部長其實要溝通的是說我們其實部落哇幾乎幾乎很辛苦都在做部落說明會說明會聽完了呢他們也很多很多的問題會跑來問我們"},{"start":179.98,"end":209.27,"text":"那有很多很多的謠言啊那我也不知道是不是謠言總之他們就會覺得說我被劃入國土國保一國保二就會怎麼樣怎麼樣那為什麼不能被納入農山城市好那大家現在最最嚴重的對我們原住民來講因為我們知道嗎像這些災害潛勢區水源水質保護區國家公園他其實都會納入國保一但是我們也了解如果我住在"},{"start":210.691,"end":225.488,"text":"這些國保一國保二的地方但是呢我的既有住宅就是105年5月1號以前我們都知道可以把它變成合法用地那我就想知道說這些部落公共設施未來的新增住宅他要怎麼樣因地制宜"},{"start":228.203,"end":248.074,"text":"這也是委員有努力在爭取鄉民地區整理規劃很重要的目的你有透過鄉規這些地區會被找得出來是我知道那現在我們的重點困境就是我們原住民所居住的地區我看這個資料他如果是在環境敏感地區是高達45%"},{"start":250.937,"end":273.847,"text":"所以我現在就是要知道您一定會想要告訴我嘛因為我之前質詢我也一直問嘛有原住民族土地管制規則會做例外規定嗎那我現在就是想要知道我要確保我們原住民族土地管制規則他到底會不會優於國土保育區的規則我說明一下因為基本上原住民族地區他的土管就是FARO那一個"},{"start":274.409,"end":292.271,"text":"但是你要擔心的是說像比如說我是土石流的地區那我們會依據這個潛勢圖然後也透過相關地區整理做必要的相關的地形地址的這個探勘再把它做一個更細緻化的分類這樣才能找出真正適合的"},{"start":293.012,"end":295.895,"text":"所以我去年8月我有看到我們的第39次的研商會議記錄那國土署你有要求因為到底這個國保1跟農事之間就是您剛剛說的到底它的面積有多少受影響的會有多少要去盤點嗎結果如何"},{"start":313.952,"end":331.202,"text":"跟委員報告就當然各個相規都有在處理啦那第二個也會告訴委員就說只要這個原則就是說這些原則在原住民那也就是都還沒有盤出來啦還沒有盤出來啦到時候這些東西出來放到原住民圖板現在已經放在圖板"},{"start":331.582,"end":345.912,"text":"她是會優於我們一般國土的﹖好我就要你這句話會優於嗎好謝謝署長那我請教一下那個原民會的杜璋處長那被劃入國保一國保二的原住民族土地能不能依據原住民族土地管制規則剛才署長其實也講了"},{"start":349.079,"end":367.095,"text":"原則上我們目前那個管制規則裏面訂的條文就是剛剛你提的這兩個區塊吼那我本身上例外的處理啦比如說一淵水地區或是歷史災害地區或是特定水保區可能這個危及到生命財產安全我們會有在管制上會提及但是其他的部分會"},{"start":369.257,"end":386.947,"text":"我現在就是希望我們善用這個原住民族土地管制規則去適度開放這一些原住民族地區的國土保育區的規則落實我們一直在講的因地制宜好不好那另外也是有一個問題因為108年國土計畫法他呢當時我看到我們的手冊點來是要框部落4點啦那後來呢以15戶或50人的聚落"},{"start":397.593,"end":423.188,"text":"我在109年3月我的第一次質詢我就有提到說那3戶以上的後來就有微型聚落那112年10月我又質詢那個獨立戶的因為非常多人關心當時也說會例外規定那現在我就是想說會不會拿去縣市做一個認定還是說要放在原住民族土地管制規則由中央法規統一規定"},{"start":426.633,"end":441.629,"text":"各位委員報告齁 這個部分我們事實上在去年的10月就有發函給各地方政府來收集一些資料那我們目前會把這些意見就是納入我們這次的這個原住民的土地使用管制規則裡面的條文來那會有縣市政府認定嗎"},{"start":442.61,"end":448.831,"text":"我現在就是繼續問請問一下如果我想要申請新建住宅其實明年上路以後大家都會以為說105年以前我們的用地就可以合法化了以後我們就可以來申請使用執照那農地以後也可以蓋房子嗎真的是這樣嗎"},{"start":471.198,"end":473.362,"text":"署長,署長真的是這樣嗎?那是建築物合法的部分啊對啊但是大家聽完說明會都以為啊很多的憧憬啊"},{"start":485.155,"end":503.803,"text":"應該還要做鄉村規劃嗎?對嘛!我都有幫忙說明了!我知道!對建築的理解比較單一啦!他忘記如果按照...要鄉規嘛!對不對?第一個鄉規第二個你還有相對應的建築物的配套設施是!是!是!"},{"start":505.364,"end":513.791,"text":"所以你們有補助我們也要求補助現在我們原住民有55個鄉鎮你們10111212目前補助的是11個結果它的比率佔比是24%我就不曉得說55個原鄉要排到什麼時候有規劃嗎"},{"start":524.079,"end":528.383,"text":"要鼓勵他們來申請基本上他只要願意來申請我現在就是有點緊張署長你知道嗎我去年8月有幫忙做一件事我把這11個已經申請到相歸的我邀請他們一起來做一個座談結果我要求他們去公佈他們做的東西我跟署長講"},{"start":542.958,"end":556.673,"text":"都是圖片而已喔紙上談兵喔那個最重要的那些工程的細部規劃還有那些基礎設施排水道路等等等喔都沒有喔表示大家都沒有概念喔那你問他說怎麼這麼簡單這個相規怎麼以後拿出來去解決問題他說只有300萬要怎麼做喔這個怎麼辦 這個怎麼辦"},{"start":567.282,"end":589.708,"text":"我希望現在大家有很多的憧憬我們希望不要失信於民好不好不要畫那個大餅空歡喜一場所以我就要請原民會主委就是105年5月1號前這個居住用地的輔導合法化期程這個也是會議中你們說要訂的不知道訂好了沒有那國土署的我們的署長我也要請教那些既有建物的調查統計數據"},{"start":591.869,"end":617.314,"text":"也要拿出來那我不好意思主席我就最後一分鐘我就直接要求因為工廠管理輔導犯法第7項他是有定落日條款可是農地的工廠當時經濟部推估是4.5萬戶他的落日是20年我就不曉得說我們國土計畫法有沒有落日條款而且我們這些既有建物到底幾戶統計出來了沒有到底要訂定多少年"},{"start":617.914,"end":627.322,"text":"我都不知道所以我就直接要求了我是希望說第一個要定定輔導期限的落日條款而且要明定中央地方政府的輔導責任這樣可以嗎"},{"start":630.25,"end":658.084,"text":"好 這個部分我們會再來討論那包含相關的一定要討論而且我聽到很多委員都會說為什麼原住民可以喔你們是因地制宜喔我是希望說這個因為土地它是土地地理環境的位置它有不同的一個利用條件就像平地的建壁率怎麼可能跟山上建壁率一樣平地的農地坡度怎麼可以跟山上的農地坡度一樣尤其我們台灣我們的地形是這麼獨特的地方本來早就應該要有這種因地"},{"start":660.426,"end":667.532,"text":"我跟各位講我們族人都聽不懂因為他不知道原住民族土地管制規則另外有規定這樣好嗎"},{"start":687.589,"end":688.451,"text":"謝謝署長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席"}]}}}}