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13:29:32","影片長度":"00:07:57","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長及國土管理署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員就「國土計畫推動辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-7"},"date":"2024-03-20","duration":477,"end_time":"2024-03-20T13:29:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-20T13:21:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1275,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（13時21分）謝謝召委。請部長。"],["主席：部長有請。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長。剛好趕上，還好沒被跳過，不然就去找召委抗議。部長，今天討論的是國土計畫法的部分，我今天看到一則消息，相關的法令是不是預計又要延後上路？"],["林部長右昌：目前相關意見都很多，不過我們都還是照原定的期程來進行。"],["黃委員健豪：目前是不是只收到3個縣市的相關規劃？"],["林部長右昌：3個縣市的這個圖說，即功能分區圖，其他縣市預定的期程是在今年6月底之前。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，我想反映一下現實面，不過我要先講一下我的概念，就國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分，理論上人民財產、私有財產在整個國家的架構裡面，應該是一個最上位的概念。今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前，為什麼會有這麼多反彈的聲音、會有這麼多人沒辦法接受？我想是因為他的土地使用被限制了相關的權利，他當然會透過地方政府去反彈，我不知道這個部分內政部要怎麼樣去溝通？要怎麼樣去向民眾或跟地方政府做說服？"],["林部長右昌：倒不是跟地方政府說服，其實所有的功能分區都是地方政府劃的，並不是內政部劃的，現在是進入到第三階段，縣市政府要把他們所劃的這些功能分區送到內政部審議，這也是很重要的一點必須要說明的。"],["黃委員健豪：我要先講，訂定這個法令當然是好事，不論是對全國的土地使用分區或對全國的國土規劃都是好事，因為這樣大家才能夠明確知道整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走，我的土地要怎麼樣來利用。剛剛部長說這個是由地方政府來劃的，而地方政府在劃之前，當然上位指導原則是內政部要求的，要求大家要來交這樣的圖說。所以像這種反彈或他對自己的土地被規劃在某些區域裡面覺得不滿意的話，那麼這部分的協調是交由地方政府，還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為，來補償或是提高民眾參與的意願？"],["林部長右昌：是，其實這個已經持續了滿長一段時間，跟縣市的民眾來做說明也都持續在做，特別是在去年一整年，各地方政府大概都在進行相關的說明，並開公聽會。不過因為民眾對新的制度不完全理解，當然大家心裡面會有很多的疑問，最主要是他對未來可以怎麼使用不是很清楚，不過經過說明之後，他現在如果是合法使用，未來還是一樣可以合法使用，沒有問題。另外，也不是劃下去之後，就完完全全不能去做一些修正跟調整，一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的制度在裡面。"],["黃委員健豪：所以今天要對民眾講，因為部長希望6月前各縣市的圖說都能夠完成……"],["林部長右昌：依照期程是在今年6月前。"],["黃委員健豪：但據我所知，可能實務上還是會有很多困難，就包含剛剛提到的，民眾對自己未來使用的權益，他有沒有機會去平衡，我覺得地方政府會有很大的壓力，短期內要在6月前送出，我覺得是有困難的。","回到土地使用分區的問題，針對地方政府的權限，我們以臺中市為例，臺中市有所謂的都市計畫區，臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯，但臺中市有很多不同的都市計畫分類。過去在通過的都市計畫法裡面，關於代金使用的部分，容積移轉的代金，當初立法的目的是希望讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來使用公共設施保留用地，因為這個公共設施保留用地很多到現在都還是私有產權，提供容積代金的制度是讓這些私有產權願意提供出來做公共設施，這是當初立法的目的。現在的問題是，不同的使用分區，以臺中市為例，表面上是同一個市長沒錯，可是在臺中市下面又分了很多不同的都市計畫區，不同都市計畫區之間的容積代金不能移轉。所以就業界或是整個政府在使用財政上面，越都會區的地方要使用容積代金移轉是非常方便的，就是同一個計畫區裡面原市區的人可以互相來使用這個都市計畫的容積代金；但是臺中縣市合併，原臺中縣的這個地方雖然也叫臺中市，但因為它是不同的都市計畫區，所以原臺中市的代金就不能使用在原來其他的都市計畫區裡面。為此，我要問內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法？有沒有可能去放寬授權，讓地方政府可以在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量？還是要照原定的計畫，在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情？"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，它最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面，因為在同一個主要計畫裡面，容積並不是無限式的上漲，必須看這個地方的發展、未來的發展量能。所以如果今天這個地方的公共設施代金拿去別的地方用，其實會影響到原本這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的權益，因為它的公共設施開闢的財源就受到影響，所以它最重要的精神是在這邊。"],["黃委員健豪：我可以理解原來的精神，但還是要回到實務面上，我要跟部長反映的是，因為今天時間有限，不過我還是要跟部長溝通這個問題，如果以臺中市為例，原市區的發展非常的快速，但是其他地區因為這個容積代金的問題，沒有辦法讓整個市政通盤的來使用，所以它的城鄉差距，我覺得會因為這個問題讓差距越來越大，就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區，周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用，沒辦法移轉出去，它的實際效益、它的發展就會嚴重落後。所以我覺得在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面，應該去思考能不能授權、能不能放寬相關的容積代金移轉制度，讓地方政府更有權限去處理這件事情；加上現在的國土計畫法，未來在這個事情上面，因為地方政府是在第一線面對民眾壓力，包含地方民代也是一樣，他們在第一線要去面對這個調整的壓力。內政部如果能夠在這件事情上適度的放寬，讓地方政府有一個通盤檢討的方向，我覺得對於後續在推動土地使用分區上會有比較大的助力。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝委員的建議，這部分因為涉及到地方政府首長在資源運用上的優先順序，如果今天是城鄉的問題，其實更應該對發展落後的地區投注更多的市政資源；至於剛剛提到的代金的部分，可能還要慎重。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員。","下一位游顥委員、游顥委員、游顥委員，不在。","一、登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。二、委員麥玉珍、林德福、陳俊宇、劉建國、王鴻薇、張啓楷所提書面質詢列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","三、書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","徐欣瑩","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","蘇巧慧","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:04,846\n好,謝謝趙偉這個,我們請部長部長有請黃健豪嗨,謝謝部長喔這個剛好趕上,這個還好沒被跳過不然我就去找趙偉康一樣這個部長今天討論的是這個國土規劃法的一個部分其實國土規劃法的部分因為我今天看到一個消息喔是不是預計要延後商務這個相關的法令\n\n2\n00:00:30,792 --> 00:00:50,388\n我們目前這個意見都很多不過我們目前都是照原定的一個期程來進行因為目前是不是只收到所謂三個縣市的相關的規劃三個縣市的這個圖說那這個功能分區圖那其他的縣市預定的一個期程是在今年6月底之前\n\n3\n00:00:51,055 --> 00:00:56,162\n國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分我想這個人民財產、私有財產理論上在整個國家的架構裡面應該是一個最上位的概念\n\n4\n00:01:07,438 --> 00:01:28,491\n今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前為什麼會有這麼多的反彈的聲音或是這麼多人沒辦法接受我想是因為他的這個土地使用被限制相關的權利所以說他當然透過地方政府他會去反彈那我不知道這一段內政部要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去跟民眾或跟地方政府做說服\n\n5\n00:01:29,189 --> 00:01:32,851\n所以現在是進入到第三階段縣市政府要把他所畫的這些功能分區要送到內政部來進行審議\n\n6\n00:01:45,679 --> 00:02:10,840\n當然這個計畫當然我想講我要先講這個法律當然是好事啦就是說對全國的土地使用分析或對全國的國土計畫是個好事因為這樣子明顯的大家才能夠很明確的知道說這個整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走那我的土地怎麼樣來利用那當然剛剛部長是說這個誰來畫何時有地方政府來畫那地方政府要畫之前當然尚未知道原則是\n\n7\n00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,785\n這部分的協調是交由地方政府呢還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為來補償或是來怎麼樣來提高民眾參與的意願是\n\n8\n00:02:35,263 --> 00:03:00,181\n其實這個已經持續了蠻長的一段時間所以這個跟這個縣市的這個民眾來做說明其實持續都在做特別是在去年一整年其實各地方政府大概都在進行相關的一個說明跟公聽會不過民眾他因為對新的一個制度他這個不完全理解所以大家當然會有心裡面會有很多的一個疑問最主要是說\n\n9\n00:03:00,481 --> 00:03:23,639\n他對未來性他可以怎麼使用他不是很清楚不過經過說明之後簡單來說就是他現在如果是合法使用的話未來還是一樣可以合法使用沒有問題另外也不會話了下去就完完全全說通通都不可能去做一些修正跟調整其實一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的一個這樣的一個制度在裡面\n\n10\n00:03:24,249 --> 00:03:34,919\n所以這個今天要對民眾講,因為你今天講說,不僅要說6月前喔,這個各縣市的這個這個圖說都能夠完整。依照期程是在今年6月前。\n\n11\n00:03:35,441 --> 00:03:54,360\n當然據我所知啦我覺得可能實務上還是會很多困難就剛提到了民眾對自己未來使用的權益他有沒有機會去平衡我覺得這是會有一個地方這麼會有很大的壓力他短期內要在這個6月前送出我覺得是有困難那當然回到這個土地使用分區的問題\n\n12\n00:03:55,601 --> 00:04:22,672\n我想對於地方政府的這個權限的部分在過去的這個以臺中市為例臺中市有這個所謂都市計畫區那臺中市今天臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯但是臺中市它有很多不同的這個都市計畫的分類那過去在通過所謂都市計畫法裡面關於貸金使用的部分這個容積移轉的容積移轉的貸金它當初立法的目的是希望說讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來\n\n13\n00:04:24,953 --> 00:04:53,409\n提供公共設施保留用地因為公共設施保留用地很多現在都還是私有產權所以提供容積代替的制度是能夠讓這些私有產權它願意提供出來來做公共設施這是當初立法的一個目的那現在問題是說不同的使用分區台中市為例台中市表面上同一個市場沒錯那台中市下面就分了很多不同的都市計畫區那不同都市計畫區之間的容積代替不能移轉\n\n14\n00:04:54,452 --> 00:04:55,300\n所以這一件事情就是說\n\n15\n00:04:56,664 --> 00:04:56,704\n議員提出\n\n16\n00:05:25,586 --> 00:05:42,529\n原來的其他都市計畫區裡面：所以我要問的是說：內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法有沒有可能去放寬授權用對方政府在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量還是還是要照原定的計畫在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情\n\n17\n00:05:44,063 --> 00:06:11,755\n這個是跟委員報告他最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面那為什麼因為在同一個主要計畫裡面我們隆基並不是說無限市的長他必須要看這個地方的一個發展未來的發展能量所以今天你如果這個地方的公共設施的貸金拿去別的地方用的時候其實你是影響到原這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的一個權益因為他的公共設施的一個開闢的這個財運就受到影響所以最重要的精神是在這邊\n\n18\n00:06:12,355 --> 00:06:33,764\n我可以理解那原來的精神,但是實務上,還是要喊到實務面上,部長反映的是說當然這個今天時間有限,我要跟部長溝通這個問題是說,因為實際上狀況就變成像以台中市為例,原市區當然它的發展就非常的快速,但是在其他地區因為這個容積代替的問題,它沒有辦法去讓這個市政通盤的來使用。\n\n19\n00:06:34,404 --> 00:06:54,630\n所以他的城鄉差距我如果會因為這個問題我覺得會差距越來越大就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區但是其他的周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用沒辦法移轉出去之後這一關這邊他的這個持續效應的問題他這邊的發展他就會是被嚴重的落後所以我覺得\n\n20\n00:06:55,290 --> 00:07:13,488\n在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面應該去思考說能不能授權能不能放寬相關的容金代金移轉制度讓地方政府他更有權限去處理這件事情加上現在的國土計畫法未來在這個事情上面讓地方政府因為地方政府是面對第一線的民眾壓力包含說地方民代也是一樣\n\n21\n00:07:13,908 --> 00:07:29,969\n他是第一線要去面對這個調整的這個壓力所以如果能夠對政府能夠適度的放寬讓這件事情能夠讓地方政府有個通盤檢討的這個方向的話我覺得對於後續在推動這個這個使用土地使用分區來講會有比較大的助力\n\n22\n00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:30,610\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n563\t4846\t好,謝謝趙偉這個,我們請部長部長有請黃健豪嗨,謝謝部長喔這個剛好趕上,這個還好沒被跳過不然我就去找趙偉康一樣這個部長今天討論的是這個國土規劃法的一個部分其實國土規劃法的部分因為我今天看到一個消息喔是不是預計要延後商務這個相關的法令\n30792\t50388\t我們目前這個意見都很多不過我們目前都是照原定的一個期程來進行因為目前是不是只收到所謂三個縣市的相關的規劃三個縣市的這個圖說那這個功能分區圖那其他的縣市預定的一個期程是在今年6月底之前\n51055\t56162\t國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分我想這個人民財產、私有財產理論上在整個國家的架構裡面應該是一個最上位的概念\n67438\t88491\t今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前為什麼會有這麼多的反彈的聲音或是這麼多人沒辦法接受我想是因為他的這個土地使用被限制相關的權利所以說他當然透過地方政府他會去反彈那我不知道這一段內政部要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去跟民眾或跟地方政府做說服\n89189\t92851\t所以現在是進入到第三階段 縣市政府要把他所畫的這些功能分區要送到內政部來進行審議\n105679\t130840\t當然這個計畫當然我想講我要先講這個法律當然是好事啦就是說對全國的土地使用分析或對全國的國土計畫是個好事因為這樣子明顯的大家才能夠很明確的知道說這個整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走那我的土地怎麼樣來利用那當然剛剛部長是說這個誰來畫何時有地方政府來畫那地方政府要畫之前當然尚未知道原則是\n131400\t136785\t這部分的協調是交由地方政府呢還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為來補償或是來怎麼樣來提高民眾參與的意願是\n155263\t180181\t其實這個已經持續了蠻長的一段時間所以這個跟這個縣市的這個民眾來做說明其實持續都在做特別是在去年一整年其實各地方政府大概都在進行相關的一個說明跟公聽會不過民眾他因為對新的一個制度他這個不完全理解所以大家當然會有心裡面會有很多的一個疑問最主要是說\n180481\t203639\t他對未來性他可以怎麼使用他不是很清楚不過經過說明之後簡單來說就是他現在如果是合法使用的話未來還是一樣可以合法使用沒有問題另外也不會話了下去就完完全全說通通都不可能去做一些修正跟調整其實一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的一個這樣的一個制度在裡面\n204249\t214919\t所以這個今天要對民眾講,因為你今天講說,不僅要說6月前喔,這個各縣市的這個這個圖說都能夠完整。依照期程是在今年6月前。\n215441\t234360\t當然據我所知啦我覺得可能實務上還是會很多困難就剛提到了民眾對自己未來使用的權益他有沒有機會去平衡我覺得這是會有一個地方這麼會有很大的壓力他短期內要在這個6月前送出我覺得是有困難那當然回到這個土地使用分區的問題\n235601\t262672\t我想對於地方政府的這個權限的部分在過去的這個以臺中市為例臺中市有這個所謂都市計畫區那臺中市今天臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯但是臺中市它有很多不同的這個都市計畫的分類那過去在通過所謂都市計畫法裡面關於貸金使用的部分這個容積移轉的容積移轉的貸金它當初立法的目的是希望說讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來\n264953\t293409\t提供公共設施保留用地因為公共設施保留用地很多現在都還是私有產權所以提供容積代替的制度是能夠讓這些私有產權它願意提供出來來做公共設施這是當初立法的一個目的那現在問題是說不同的使用分區台中市為例台中市表面上同一個市場沒錯那台中市下面就分了很多不同的都市計畫區那不同都市計畫區之間的容積代替不能移轉\n294452\t295300\t所以這一件事情就是說\n296664\t296704\t議員提出\n325586\t342529\t原來的其他都市計畫區裡面：所以我要問的是說：內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法有沒有可能去放寬授權用對方政府在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量還是還是要照原定的計畫在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情\n344063\t371755\t這個是跟委員報告他最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面那為什麼因為在同一個主要計畫裡面我們隆基並不是說無限市的長他必須要看這個地方的一個發展未來的發展能量所以今天你如果這個地方的公共設施的貸金拿去別的地方用的時候其實你是影響到原這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的一個權益因為他的公共設施的一個開闢的這個財運就受到影響所以最重要的精神是在這邊\n372355\t393764\t我可以理解那原來的精神,但是實務上,還是要喊到實務面上,部長反映的是說當然這個今天時間有限,我要跟部長溝通這個問題是說,因為實際上狀況就變成像以台中市為例,原市區當然它的發展就非常的快速,但是在其他地區因為這個容積代替的問題,它沒有辦法去讓這個市政通盤的來使用。\n394404\t414630\t所以他的城鄉差距我如果會因為這個問題我覺得會差距越來越大就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區但是其他的周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用沒辦法移轉出去之後這一關這邊他的這個持續效應的問題他這邊的發展他就會是被嚴重的落後所以我覺得\n415290\t433488\t在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面應該去思考說能不能授權能不能放寬相關的容金代金移轉制度讓地方政府他更有權限去處理這件事情加上現在的國土計畫法未來在這個事情上面讓地方政府因為地方政府是面對第一線的民眾壓力包含說地方民代也是一樣\n433908\t449969\t他是第一線要去面對這個調整的這個壓力所以如果能夠對政府能夠適度的放寬讓這件事情能夠讓地方政府有個通盤檢討的這個方向的話我覺得對於後續在推動這個這個使用土地使用分區來講會有比較大的助力\n450350\t450610\t謝謝黃健豪委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝趙偉這個,我們請部長部長有請黃健豪嗨,謝謝部長喔這個剛好趕上,這個還好沒被跳過不然我就去找趙偉康一樣這個部長今天討論的是這個國土規劃法的一個部分其實國土規劃法的部分因為我今天看到一個消息喔是不是預計要延後商務這個相關的法令\n我們目前這個意見都很多不過我們目前都是照原定的一個期程來進行因為目前是不是只收到所謂三個縣市的相關的規劃三個縣市的這個圖說那這個功能分區圖那其他的縣市預定的一個期程是在今年6月底之前\n國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分我想這個人民財產、私有財產理論上在整個國家的架構裡面應該是一個最上位的概念\n今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前為什麼會有這麼多的反彈的聲音或是這麼多人沒辦法接受我想是因為他的這個土地使用被限制相關的權利所以說他當然透過地方政府他會去反彈那我不知道這一段內政部要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去跟民眾或跟地方政府做說服\n所以現在是進入到第三階段 縣市政府要把他所畫的這些功能分區要送到內政部來進行審議\n當然這個計畫當然我想講我要先講這個法律當然是好事啦就是說對全國的土地使用分析或對全國的國土計畫是個好事因為這樣子明顯的大家才能夠很明確的知道說這個整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走那我的土地怎麼樣來利用那當然剛剛部長是說這個誰來畫何時有地方政府來畫那地方政府要畫之前當然尚未知道原則是\n這部分的協調是交由地方政府呢還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為來補償或是來怎麼樣來提高民眾參與的意願是\n其實這個已經持續了蠻長的一段時間所以這個跟這個縣市的這個民眾來做說明其實持續都在做特別是在去年一整年其實各地方政府大概都在進行相關的一個說明跟公聽會不過民眾他因為對新的一個制度他這個不完全理解所以大家當然會有心裡面會有很多的一個疑問最主要是說\n他對未來性他可以怎麼使用他不是很清楚不過經過說明之後簡單來說就是他現在如果是合法使用的話未來還是一樣可以合法使用沒有問題另外也不會話了下去就完完全全說通通都不可能去做一些修正跟調整其實一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的一個這樣的一個制度在裡面\n所以這個今天要對民眾講,因為你今天講說,不僅要說6月前喔,這個各縣市的這個這個圖說都能夠完整。依照期程是在今年6月前。\n當然據我所知啦我覺得可能實務上還是會很多困難就剛提到了民眾對自己未來使用的權益他有沒有機會去平衡我覺得這是會有一個地方這麼會有很大的壓力他短期內要在這個6月前送出我覺得是有困難那當然回到這個土地使用分區的問題\n我想對於地方政府的這個權限的部分在過去的這個以臺中市為例臺中市有這個所謂都市計畫區那臺中市今天臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯但是臺中市它有很多不同的這個都市計畫的分類那過去在通過所謂都市計畫法裡面關於貸金使用的部分這個容積移轉的容積移轉的貸金它當初立法的目的是希望說讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來\n提供公共設施保留用地因為公共設施保留用地很多現在都還是私有產權所以提供容積代替的制度是能夠讓這些私有產權它願意提供出來來做公共設施這是當初立法的一個目的那現在問題是說不同的使用分區台中市為例台中市表面上同一個市場沒錯那台中市下面就分了很多不同的都市計畫區那不同都市計畫區之間的容積代替不能移轉\n所以這一件事情就是說\n議員提出\n原來的其他都市計畫區裡面：所以我要問的是說：內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法有沒有可能去放寬授權用對方政府在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量還是還是要照原定的計畫在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情\n這個是跟委員報告他最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面那為什麼因為在同一個主要計畫裡面我們隆基並不是說無限市的長他必須要看這個地方的一個發展未來的發展能量所以今天你如果這個地方的公共設施的貸金拿去別的地方用的時候其實你是影響到原這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的一個權益因為他的公共設施的一個開闢的這個財運就受到影響所以最重要的精神是在這邊\n我可以理解那原來的精神,但是實務上,還是要喊到實務面上,部長反映的是說當然這個今天時間有限,我要跟部長溝通這個問題是說,因為實際上狀況就變成像以台中市為例,原市區當然它的發展就非常的快速,但是在其他地區因為這個容積代替的問題,它沒有辦法去讓這個市政通盤的來使用。\n所以他的城鄉差距我如果會因為這個問題我覺得會差距越來越大就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區但是其他的周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用沒辦法移轉出去之後這一關這邊他的這個持續效應的問題他這邊的發展他就會是被嚴重的落後所以我覺得\n在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面應該去思考說能不能授權能不能放寬相關的容金代金移轉制度讓地方政府他更有權限去處理這件事情加上現在的國土計畫法未來在這個事情上面讓地方政府因為地方政府是面對第一線的民眾壓力包含說地方民代也是一樣\n他是第一線要去面對這個調整的這個壓力所以如果能夠對政府能夠適度的放寬讓這件事情能夠讓地方政府有個通盤檢討的這個方向的話我覺得對於後續在推動這個這個使用土地使用分區來講會有比較大的助力\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.563 --> 00:04.846\n好,謝謝趙偉這個,我們請部長部長有請黃健豪嗨,謝謝部長喔這個剛好趕上,這個還好沒被跳過不然我就去找趙偉康一樣這個部長今天討論的是這個國土規劃法的一個部分其實國土規劃法的部分因為我今天看到一個消息喔是不是預計要延後商務這個相關的法令\n\n00:30.792 --> 00:50.388\n我們目前這個意見都很多不過我們目前都是照原定的一個期程來進行因為目前是不是只收到所謂三個縣市的相關的規劃三個縣市的這個圖說那這個功能分區圖那其他的縣市預定的一個期程是在今年6月底之前\n\n00:51.055 --> 00:56.162\n國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分我想這個人民財產、私有財產理論上在整個國家的架構裡面應該是一個最上位的概念\n\n01:07.438 --> 01:28.491\n今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前為什麼會有這麼多的反彈的聲音或是這麼多人沒辦法接受我想是因為他的這個土地使用被限制相關的權利所以說他當然透過地方政府他會去反彈那我不知道這一段內政部要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去跟民眾或跟地方政府做說服\n\n01:29.189 --> 01:32.851\n所以現在是進入到第三階段縣市政府要把他所畫的這些功能分區要送到內政部來進行審議\n\n01:45.679 --> 02:10.840\n當然這個計畫當然我想講我要先講這個法律當然是好事啦就是說對全國的土地使用分析或對全國的國土計畫是個好事因為這樣子明顯的大家才能夠很明確的知道說這個整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走那我的土地怎麼樣來利用那當然剛剛部長是說這個誰來畫何時有地方政府來畫那地方政府要畫之前當然尚未知道原則是\n\n02:11.400 --> 02:16.785\n這部分的協調是交由地方政府呢還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為來補償或是來怎麼樣來提高民眾參與的意願是\n\n02:35.263 --> 03:00.181\n其實這個已經持續了蠻長的一段時間所以這個跟這個縣市的這個民眾來做說明其實持續都在做特別是在去年一整年其實各地方政府大概都在進行相關的一個說明跟公聽會不過民眾他因為對新的一個制度他這個不完全理解所以大家當然會有心裡面會有很多的一個疑問最主要是說\n\n03:00.481 --> 03:23.639\n他對未來性他可以怎麼使用他不是很清楚不過經過說明之後簡單來說就是他現在如果是合法使用的話未來還是一樣可以合法使用沒有問題另外也不會話了下去就完完全全說通通都不可能去做一些修正跟調整其實一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的一個這樣的一個制度在裡面\n\n03:24.249 --> 03:34.919\n所以這個今天要對民眾講,因為你今天講說,不僅要說6月前喔,這個各縣市的這個這個圖說都能夠完整。依照期程是在今年6月前。\n\n03:35.441 --> 03:54.360\n當然據我所知啦我覺得可能實務上還是會很多困難就剛提到了民眾對自己未來使用的權益他有沒有機會去平衡我覺得這是會有一個地方這麼會有很大的壓力他短期內要在這個6月前送出我覺得是有困難那當然回到這個土地使用分區的問題\n\n03:55.601 --> 04:22.672\n我想對於地方政府的這個權限的部分在過去的這個以臺中市為例臺中市有這個所謂都市計畫區那臺中市今天臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯但是臺中市它有很多不同的這個都市計畫的分類那過去在通過所謂都市計畫法裡面關於貸金使用的部分這個容積移轉的容積移轉的貸金它當初立法的目的是希望說讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來\n\n04:24.953 --> 04:53.409\n提供公共設施保留用地因為公共設施保留用地很多現在都還是私有產權所以提供容積代替的制度是能夠讓這些私有產權它願意提供出來來做公共設施這是當初立法的一個目的那現在問題是說不同的使用分區台中市為例台中市表面上同一個市場沒錯那台中市下面就分了很多不同的都市計畫區那不同都市計畫區之間的容積代替不能移轉\n\n04:54.452 --> 04:55.300\n所以這一件事情就是說\n\n04:56.664 --> 04:56.704\n議員提出\n\n05:25.586 --> 05:42.529\n原來的其他都市計畫區裡面：所以我要問的是說：內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法有沒有可能去放寬授權用對方政府在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量還是還是要照原定的計畫在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情\n\n05:44.063 --> 06:11.755\n這個是跟委員報告他最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面那為什麼因為在同一個主要計畫裡面我們隆基並不是說無限市的長他必須要看這個地方的一個發展未來的發展能量所以今天你如果這個地方的公共設施的貸金拿去別的地方用的時候其實你是影響到原這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的一個權益因為他的公共設施的一個開闢的這個財運就受到影響所以最重要的精神是在這邊\n\n06:12.355 --> 06:33.764\n我可以理解那原來的精神,但是實務上,還是要喊到實務面上,部長反映的是說當然這個今天時間有限,我要跟部長溝通這個問題是說,因為實際上狀況就變成像以台中市為例,原市區當然它的發展就非常的快速,但是在其他地區因為這個容積代替的問題,它沒有辦法去讓這個市政通盤的來使用。\n\n06:34.404 --> 06:54.630\n所以他的城鄉差距我如果會因為這個問題我覺得會差距越來越大就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區但是其他的周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用沒辦法移轉出去之後這一關這邊他的這個持續效應的問題他這邊的發展他就會是被嚴重的落後所以我覺得\n\n06:55.290 --> 07:13.488\n在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面應該去思考說能不能授權能不能放寬相關的容金代金移轉制度讓地方政府他更有權限去處理這件事情加上現在的國土計畫法未來在這個事情上面讓地方政府因為地方政府是面對第一線的民眾壓力包含說地方民代也是一樣\n\n07:13.908 --> 07:29.969\n他是第一線要去面對這個調整的這個壓力所以如果能夠對政府能夠適度的放寬讓這件事情能夠讓地方政府有個通盤檢討的這個方向的話我覺得對於後續在推動這個這個使用土地使用分區來講會有比較大的助力\n\n07:30.350 --> 07:30.610\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.563,"end":4.846,"text":"好,謝謝趙偉這個,我們請部長部長有請黃健豪嗨,謝謝部長喔這個剛好趕上,這個還好沒被跳過不然我就去找趙偉康一樣這個部長今天討論的是這個國土規劃法的一個部分其實國土規劃法的部分因為我今天看到一個消息喔是不是預計要延後商務這個相關的法令"},{"start":30.792,"end":50.388,"text":"我們目前這個意見都很多不過我們目前都是照原定的一個期程來進行因為目前是不是只收到所謂三個縣市的相關的規劃三個縣市的這個圖說那這個功能分區圖那其他的縣市預定的一個期程是在今年6月底之前"},{"start":51.055,"end":56.162,"text":"國土規劃法、國土計畫法這部分我想這個人民財產、私有財產理論上在整個國家的架構裡面應該是一個最上位的概念"},{"start":67.438,"end":88.491,"text":"今天你要去做這個國土規劃之前為什麼會有這麼多的反彈的聲音或是這麼多人沒辦法接受我想是因為他的這個土地使用被限制相關的權利所以說他當然透過地方政府他會去反彈那我不知道這一段內政部要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去跟民眾或跟地方政府做說服"},{"start":89.189,"end":92.851,"text":"所以現在是進入到第三階段 縣市政府要把他所畫的這些功能分區要送到內政部來進行審議"},{"start":105.679,"end":130.84,"text":"當然這個計畫當然我想講我要先講這個法律當然是好事啦就是說對全國的土地使用分析或對全國的國土計畫是個好事因為這樣子明顯的大家才能夠很明確的知道說這個整個國家的發展要往什麼樣的地方去走那我的土地怎麼樣來利用那當然剛剛部長是說這個誰來畫何時有地方政府來畫那地方政府要畫之前當然尚未知道原則是"},{"start":131.4,"end":136.785,"text":"這部分的協調是交由地方政府呢還是內政部這邊會有一些相關的措施跟作為來補償或是來怎麼樣來提高民眾參與的意願是"},{"start":155.263,"end":180.181,"text":"其實這個已經持續了蠻長的一段時間所以這個跟這個縣市的這個民眾來做說明其實持續都在做特別是在去年一整年其實各地方政府大概都在進行相關的一個說明跟公聽會不過民眾他因為對新的一個制度他這個不完全理解所以大家當然會有心裡面會有很多的一個疑問最主要是說"},{"start":180.481,"end":203.639,"text":"他對未來性他可以怎麼使用他不是很清楚不過經過說明之後簡單來說就是他現在如果是合法使用的話未來還是一樣可以合法使用沒有問題另外也不會話了下去就完完全全說通通都不可能去做一些修正跟調整其實一樣有訂定了一個5年通盤檢討的一個這樣的一個制度在裡面"},{"start":204.249,"end":214.919,"text":"所以這個今天要對民眾講,因為你今天講說,不僅要說6月前喔,這個各縣市的這個這個圖說都能夠完整。依照期程是在今年6月前。"},{"start":215.441,"end":234.36,"text":"當然據我所知啦我覺得可能實務上還是會很多困難就剛提到了民眾對自己未來使用的權益他有沒有機會去平衡我覺得這是會有一個地方這麼會有很大的壓力他短期內要在這個6月前送出我覺得是有困難那當然回到這個土地使用分區的問題"},{"start":235.601,"end":262.672,"text":"我想對於地方政府的這個權限的部分在過去的這個以臺中市為例臺中市有這個所謂都市計畫區那臺中市今天臺中市是一個完整的城市沒錯但是臺中市它有很多不同的這個都市計畫的分類那過去在通過所謂都市計畫法裡面關於貸金使用的部分這個容積移轉的容積移轉的貸金它當初立法的目的是希望說讓地方政府有這個權限能夠來"},{"start":264.953,"end":293.409,"text":"提供公共設施保留用地因為公共設施保留用地很多現在都還是私有產權所以提供容積代替的制度是能夠讓這些私有產權它願意提供出來來做公共設施這是當初立法的一個目的那現在問題是說不同的使用分區台中市為例台中市表面上同一個市場沒錯那台中市下面就分了很多不同的都市計畫區那不同都市計畫區之間的容積代替不能移轉"},{"start":294.452,"end":295.3,"text":"所以這一件事情就是說"},{"start":296.664,"end":296.704,"text":"議員提出"},{"start":325.586,"end":342.529,"text":"原來的其他都市計畫區裡面：所以我要問的是說：內政部在這個事情上面有沒有什麼樣的考量跟想法有沒有可能去放寬授權用對方政府在同一個縣市裡面去做通盤的計畫跟考量還是還是要照原定的計畫在原來的都市計畫區裡面只做原來的事情"},{"start":344.063,"end":371.755,"text":"這個是跟委員報告他最重要的精神是在同一個主要計畫裡面那為什麼因為在同一個主要計畫裡面我們隆基並不是說無限市的長他必須要看這個地方的一個發展未來的發展能量所以今天你如果這個地方的公共設施的貸金拿去別的地方用的時候其實你是影響到原這個都市計畫區裡面民眾的一個權益因為他的公共設施的一個開闢的這個財運就受到影響所以最重要的精神是在這邊"},{"start":372.355,"end":393.764,"text":"我可以理解那原來的精神,但是實務上,還是要喊到實務面上,部長反映的是說當然這個今天時間有限,我要跟部長溝通這個問題是說,因為實際上狀況就變成像以台中市為例,原市區當然它的發展就非常的快速,但是在其他地區因為這個容積代替的問題,它沒有辦法去讓這個市政通盤的來使用。"},{"start":394.404,"end":414.63,"text":"所以他的城鄉差距我如果會因為這個問題我覺得會差距越來越大就會很集中在發展這個都市計畫區但是其他的周邊的其他都市計畫區會因為沒有辦法在這邊使用沒辦法移轉出去之後這一關這邊他的這個持續效應的問題他這邊的發展他就會是被嚴重的落後所以我覺得"},{"start":415.29,"end":433.488,"text":"在同一個城市的這個狀況裡面應該去思考說能不能授權能不能放寬相關的容金代金移轉制度讓地方政府他更有權限去處理這件事情加上現在的國土計畫法未來在這個事情上面讓地方政府因為地方政府是面對第一線的民眾壓力包含說地方民代也是一樣"},{"start":433.908,"end":449.969,"text":"他是第一線要去面對這個調整的這個壓力所以如果能夠對政府能夠適度的放寬讓這件事情能夠讓地方政府有個通盤檢討的這個方向的話我覺得對於後續在推動這個這個使用土地使用分區來講會有比較大的助力"},{"start":450.35,"end":450.61,"text":"謝謝黃健豪委員"}]}}}}