{"id":150192,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150192","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30523349a75775f521626ede38528f72d0f5f8ba9b0039caa7a6e09a17039d14f4ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:20:27 - 09:33:16","影片長度":"00:12:49","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":769,"end_time":"2024-03-21T09:33:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T09:20:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":95,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時20分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請林騰蛟次長。"],["主席：林次長，謝謝。"],["林次長騰蛟：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，今天討論到特教的部分，本席認為非常地重要，但是本席必須先給三個結論，我們到目前為止，對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況，我認為有三大不足：安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠。","安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠，所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失再一次加強。首先安置不當的部分，應該是兩、三個禮拜前我們看到代課老師在學校教室裡面被同學施暴，後來這個代課老師直接就講，他說他真的不清楚班上有特教生，校方也未告知班上有特教生，所以他不瞭解特教生的需求，證明了學校橫向連結不足。次長，到目前為止，在這個部分有什麼改進和引導措施？"],["林次長騰蛟：針對之前這個個案的部分，確實可能在學校，除了正式的教師之外，正式教師因為長期跟學生相處，會比較瞭解班上學生的狀況，如果是代理教師，因為是短期，所以學校在老師代理、代課的時候，應該敘明班上有特教學生。"],["洪委員孟楷：有要求了嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：關於這個部分，未來我們會要求主管機關跟學校能夠……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是白紙黑字有說明了？因為我們以前是說要避免貼標籤、避免標籤化，所以一個班級裡面普特融合，哪一個是特教生，可能不希望同學去知道，但是對於代課老師或是教育工作者來講，他們應該要瞭解班上是確實有特教生的。"],["林次長騰蛟：目前我們大概有92%是融合生，身心障礙學生……"],["洪委員孟楷：92%是融合，所以有8%可能是特教，是不是？"],["林次長騰蛟：92%的身心障礙學生會進到一般學校的普通班。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以我現在只是確認這個問題要怎麼解決？未來是有要求所有學校、各級學校老師、代課老師都應該要明確告知班上有特教生？"],["林次長騰蛟：這個部分我們會請各主管機關轉知各個學校，應該讓代理、代課教師在接這個班級的時候，要對班上學生有所瞭解……"],["洪委員孟楷：找地方政府開會了嗎？還是你們發函通知地方政府了？"],["林次長騰蛟：有發函，未來我們在中央跟地方的聯繫會報裡面會來做說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：是發函了，還是以後會說明？明確一點好不好？"],["林次長騰蛟：以後會開會來做一個……"],["彭署長富源：已經開會了，現在要發函。"],["洪委員孟楷：確定開會之後要發函？"],["彭署長富源：現在開會了，委員今天所指的有兩個層次，一個是階段間或是校際間類似轉銜的，一個是校內的，這個我們都會寫得更明白，讓地方政府、中央甚至學校層級在執行的時候於法有據，或是在規定上比較完善。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會把這個白紙黑字寫清楚？"],["彭署長富源：3天內。"],["洪委員孟楷：3天內？"],["彭署長富源：最近我們知道臺北市這個案子之後，他們也請這個學校就整體的實際情形做成手冊，這個對學校很有用，可是今天委員是從全國的角度看整體的規劃及政策的設計，這個我們會用這個個案或相關我們蒐集到的整體個案做成一個比較完善的公文函釋，3天內做一個指導性的公文，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，3天內做成指導性的公文。第二個，次長，本席講到人力不足，我們看到有媒體報導特教老師人力不足的情況，導致代理的特教老師無特教證的比例逐年上升。請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上？因為之前媒體有報導，媒體報導說現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高，而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例是沒有特教證的，媒體報導還說，2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達四成。"],["彭署長富源：報告委員，這個數據……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有這個數據？有沒有統計了？"],["彭署長富源：這個數據是不是今天之內給委員？為什麼？因為有些數據在我們的通報網上是浮動的，如果用最新的數據，不要用我們縣市之前，也許是111學年的數據，我們用最新的數據，今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下，目前的確有1、2個縣市我們看到那個數據稍高一點。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以這凸顯了一個問題，就是教育部知道現在所謂代理特教教師的比例是高的，也知道有部分比例的代理教師是沒有特教證的，那就代表真的是人力不足。","再拉回來，我們現在又要有特教助理員，兩、三個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後，部長來這邊宣示，特教助理員放心！我們現在4年要有1,600個，1年要有400個。好像把特教助理員當成是解方，但我們想問，特教助理員真的是解方嗎？之前也有很多媒體報導說，特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢、帶頭欠薪，有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月，月薪其實只有2萬塊；也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊，但是一個人要照顧12人。我們要問，欠薪這樣的狀況是個案還是通案？"],["林次長騰蛟：跟委員報告，這個應該是屬於個案，如果是個案，縣市政府的這個問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是各縣市都有喔！各縣市之前都有傳出來。"],["林次長騰蛟：那可能是各縣市在撥付薪資的時間點的問題，我想如果有這樣的個案……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市，我先請教，現在全國的特教助理員有多少人？"],["彭署長富源：報告委員，因為現在不是月薪制的專任，所以我們要去爭取，因為他是用鐘點式的……"],["洪委員孟楷：即使是用鐘點式的，你還是可以知道現在全國特教助理員有多少人。"],["彭署長富源：就像早上我們請教某個縣市，想要最新的數據，他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣，是不是這樣的一個數據，因為委員可能會請教我們，那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我，他會有困難的話，我也知道，是不是就給他們一點時間……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，我想請教特教這麼大的一個議題，還有教育部身為中央主管機關，你們不管是每半年或是每3個月固定跟縣市開會的時候，難道這些不是應該在你們掌控的數據裡面嗎？"],["彭署長富源：這個會有，那個數據我們待會也是可以給您，但是現在委員問的，我們最近一次是用112學年結束的……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，多少人？"],["彭署長富源：112學年是7,800人左右，那這7,800人左右，我們是不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我正想講就是7,800人，你告訴我這個數字，那我就講，如果說現在7,800人都還沒有辦法滿足現在既有的特教市場，你跟我講4年再增加1,600人，也不到7,800人的五分之一，憑什麼部長會覺得4年再增加1,600人就是解方？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，是這樣子，我們報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後，我們就重度以上六類型的，包含發展遲緩、情障重度或是肢障重度等等，六類人員加起來共一千六百餘名，這一千六百餘名需要比較重的協助，這一千六百餘名就是剛才講的1,600人，那是專任的，現行是用部分時數，但這個部分時數不夠，這個部分時數我們也有增加，因此在專案計畫內有兩個增加，一個是1,600名，一個是部分時數，我們也希望能夠多幫忙，大概以上做補充。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席剛剛聽懂了，就是這1,600個你們希望用專任的，等於1年加400個，但你們的月薪會是多少錢？還是用最低薪資？"],["林次長騰蛟：3萬1,725元。"],["洪委員孟楷：3萬1,000？"],["林次長騰蛟：3萬1,725元。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那就討論到第三個部分，本席剛剛講待遇不夠，有沒有去算過現在，尤其是4月電價又要上漲，萬物皆漲，唯有薪水不漲。3萬1,000元，有一句話講得很好：給得起香蕉，只能請得到猴子。我覺得我們的特教助理員或是特教老師這些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心，也非常的辛苦，次長，你覺得3萬1,000元夠嗎？以剛剛講的，7,800人是鐘點時薪，然後我們剛剛也提到，有很多縣市提到因為特教助理員……","其實重點在哪裡？為什麼縣市要欠薪？其實縣市也不想欠薪，就我瞭解幾個縣市，包括我自己的新北市，都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報，教育部這邊再給地方，地方這邊再發下去，往往中間的行政流程就有拖到。所以如果這個真的是那麼重要的話，是不是中央跟地方要討論出一個更快速、方便的方式，甚至中央可以直接撥款，不要再造成中央要給地方，然後地方在行政作業流程之後，再讓地方去給這些特教助理員。有沒有辦法更精簡給予的流程？還有這個待遇到底夠不夠？"],["林次長騰蛟：跟委員報告，有關專任助理人員的部分，我們從今年開始，每年3月底之前會核定月薪資制的助理人數，然後7月份由各縣市政府去公開徵聘，新的學年度時再開始來進用。在薪資撥用的部分，我們會採用預核的方式，預核給各地方政府，如果實際上……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以之前不是預核？"],["林次長騰蛟：之前也是採用預核的方式處理。"],["彭署長富源：報告委員，您所說的大概有兩次……"],["洪委員孟楷：你講到就是重點了，對不對？"],["彭署長富源：沒有，您說的之前我們就是用預核，但我們通常會在一定的時間，譬如說在年度9月或10月的時候，如果他執行得不夠，那個量我們會再補給他，因為一直以來都有預核的經驗，所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗，讓縣市無以為繼的情況絕對會減少，或是沒有發生。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒，既然我們要推動一個政策，這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的特教學生，應該預核寬鬆、量一定要給足。尤其是剛剛講到1年400名，其實真的不多，還有待遇的部分，我一定要再一次提出來，待遇的部分真的要再去思考。三萬一千七百多……"],["林次長騰蛟：三萬一千七百多是最低、至少的，然後分成十級，最高可以到3萬7,800。"],["洪委員孟楷：多少人可以拿到3萬7,800？"],["林次長騰蛟：按照他每一年的考核。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，真的不要在那邊美化。本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員，如果是3萬7,000跟3萬1,000，能不能平均每一個人至少都有3萬5,000？我覺得這個才是比較實際的，而不是讓大家覺得有十級就先熬一下，反正熬了十幾年之後就能拿到3萬7,000了。那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了？這一點次長真的要帶回去研究、再研究，如果需要預算，立法院教育委員會一定支持。我沒有辦法幫你加錢，但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方、用在刀口上，我們一定支持。謝謝。"],["林次長騰蛟：好，謝謝洪委員。"],["主席：接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":454,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","范雲","吳春城","王鴻薇","陳秀寳","林倩綺","黃珊珊","羅智強","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\"還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 533.142, \"end\": 533.262, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 533.262, \"end\": 533.382, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 533.382, \"end\": 533.523, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 533.523, \"end\": 533.663, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"薪\", \"start\": 533.663, \"end\": 534.283, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 534.283, \"end\": 535.303, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 535.303, \"end\": 535.423, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 535.423, \"end\": 535.703, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 535.703, \"end\": 535.863, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 535.863, \"end\": 536.004, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 536.004, \"end\": 536.124, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 759.382, \"end\": 759.602, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 759.602, \"end\": 759.842, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 759.842, \"end\": 760.143, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 760.143, \"end\": 760.303, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 760.303, \"end\": 760.463, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 760.463, \"end\": 760.583, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 760.583, \"end\": 760.803, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 760.803, \"end\": 761.063, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 761.063, \"end\": 761.163, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 761.163, \"end\": 761.984, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 761.984, \"end\": 762.184, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 762.184, \"end\": 762.364, \"score\": 0.999}, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 768.491, \"end\": 768.673, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 768.673, \"end\": 768.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,676 --> 00:00:13,698\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請林滕教部次長。好,林次長,謝謝。\n\n2\n00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:36,246\n今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠\n\n3\n00:00:37,389 --> 00:00:59,923\n安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴\n\n4\n00:01:00,783 --> 00:01:19,152\n後來戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟\n\n5\n00:01:20,432 --> 00:01:20,893\n有要求嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:45,525 --> 00:02:08,923\n這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠是不是白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班級裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的\n\n7\n00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:15,577\n目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合所以有8%可能是特教92%的身心障礙學員會進到我們一般學校的普通班\n\n8\n00:02:24,471 --> 00:02:49,779\n是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了\n\n9\n00:02:50,679 --> 00:02:53,161\n明確一點好不好?確定開會之後發函?\n\n10\n00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:07,390\n三天內?\n\n11\n00:03:27,463 --> 00:03:27,683\n三天內\n\n12\n00:03:56,790 --> 00:04:25,443\n本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導\n\n13\n00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:38,150\n媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成\n\n14\n00:04:45,779 --> 00:05:07,496\n報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。\n\n15\n00:05:10,678 --> 00:05:30,105\n好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員\n\n16\n00:05:33,806 --> 00:05:44,194\n2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方\n\n17\n00:05:45,185 --> 00:06:14,125\n我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案\n\n18\n00:06:15,104 --> 00:06:21,327\n市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在\n\n19\n00:06:41,738 --> 00:07:10,295\n報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道\n\n20\n00:07:10,655 --> 00:07:16,439\n教育部身為中央主管機關,每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗\n\n21\n00:07:33,235 --> 00:07:44,121\n委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的是多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的\n\n22\n00:07:56,647 --> 00:08:19,419\n五分之一委員跟你們你為什麼憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加1600人這就是解方跟委員報告是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員發展遲緩、勤障重度或是智障重度等等六類人員加起來1600漁民這1600漁民需要比較重的\n\n23\n00:08:23,661 --> 00:08:25,401\n本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢?\n\n24\n00:08:53,142 --> 00:09:19,913\n還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子\n\n25\n00:09:22,281 --> 00:09:48,354\n我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心、非常的辛苦社長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊\n\n26\n00:09:49,395 --> 00:10:11,037\n因為縣市會我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款\n\n27\n00:10:12,591 --> 00:10:18,944\n不要再造成說中央要給地方地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員\n\n28\n00:10:20,479 --> 00:10:49,330\n有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的不用的部分我們會採用癒合的方式\n\n29\n00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:50,190\n余禾\n\n30\n00:10:59,403 --> 00:11:19,249\n您所說的大概有兩次,您說的之前我們就是用癒合,但我們通常會一定的時間,比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候,如果他執行的不夠,那個量我們會再補給他。大概一直以來因為是用癒合的經驗,所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗,讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少,或是沒有發生。\n\n31\n00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:48,700\n所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次\n\n32\n00:11:49,540 --> 00:11:57,682\n本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000\n\n33\n00:12:18,388 --> 00:12:47,267\n我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝\n\n34\n00:12:48,491 --> 00:12:48,693\n謝謝洪委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10676\t13698\t主席,謝謝。麻煩請林滕教部次長。好,林次長,謝謝。\n18930\t36246\t今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠\n37389\t59923\t安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴\n60783\t79152\t後來戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟\n80432\t80893\t有要求嗎?\n105525\t128923\t這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠 是不是白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班級裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的\n129990\t135577\t目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合所以有8%可能是特教92%的身心障礙學員會進到我們一般學校的普通班\n144471\t169779\t是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了\n170679\t173161\t明確一點好不好?確定開會之後發函?\n187230\t187390\t三天內?\n207463\t207683\t三天內\n236790\t265443\t本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導\n266820\t278150\t媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成\n285779\t307496\t報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。\n310678\t330105\t好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員\n333806\t344194\t2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方\n345185\t374125\t我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案\n375104\t381327\t市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在\n401738\t430295\t報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道\n430655\t436439\t教育部身為中央主管機關,每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗\n453235\t464121\t委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的是多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的\n476647\t499419\t五分之一委員跟你們你為什麼憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加1600人這就是解方跟委員報告是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員發展遲緩、勤障重度或是智障重度等等六類人員加起來1600漁民這1600漁民需要比較重的\n503661\t505401\t本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢?\n533142\t559913\t還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子\n562281\t588354\t我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心、非常的辛苦社長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊\n589395\t611037\t因為縣市會 我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方 地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是 如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款\n612591\t618944\t不要再造成說中央要給地方 地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員\n620479\t649330\t有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的不用的部分我們會採用癒合的方式\n650030\t650190\t余禾\n659403\t679249\t您所說的大概有兩次,您說的之前我們就是用癒合,但我們通常會一定的時間,比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候,如果他執行的不夠,那個量我們會再補給他。大概一直以來因為是用癒合的經驗,所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗,讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少,或是沒有發生。\n682370\t708700\t所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次\n709540\t717682\t本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000\n738388\t767267\t我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝\n768491\t768693\t謝謝洪委員 謝謝\n","txt":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請林滕教部次長。好,林次長,謝謝。\n今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠\n安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴\n後來戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟\n有要求嗎?\n這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠 是不是白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班級裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的\n目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合所以有8%可能是特教92%的身心障礙學員會進到我們一般學校的普通班\n是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了\n明確一點好不好?確定開會之後發函?\n三天內?\n三天內\n本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導\n媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成\n報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。\n好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員\n2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方\n我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案\n市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在\n報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道\n教育部身為中央主管機關,每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗\n委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的是多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的\n五分之一委員跟你們你為什麼憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加1600人這就是解方跟委員報告是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員發展遲緩、勤障重度或是智障重度等等六類人員加起來1600漁民這1600漁民需要比較重的\n本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢?\n還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子\n我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心、非常的辛苦社長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊\n因為縣市會 我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方 地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是 如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款\n不要再造成說中央要給地方 地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員\n有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的不用的部分我們會採用癒合的方式\n余禾\n您所說的大概有兩次,您說的之前我們就是用癒合,但我們通常會一定的時間,比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候,如果他執行的不夠,那個量我們會再補給他。大概一直以來因為是用癒合的經驗,所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗,讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少,或是沒有發生。\n所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次\n本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000\n我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝\n謝謝洪委員 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.676 --> 00:13.698\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請林滕教部次長。好,林次長,謝謝。\n\n00:18.930 --> 00:36.246\n今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠\n\n00:37.389 --> 00:59.923\n安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴\n\n01:00.783 --> 01:19.152\n後來戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟\n\n01:20.432 --> 01:20.893\n有要求嗎?\n\n01:45.525 --> 02:08.923\n這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠是不是白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班級裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的\n\n02:09.990 --> 02:15.577\n目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合所以有8%可能是特教92%的身心障礙學員會進到我們一般學校的普通班\n\n02:24.471 --> 02:49.779\n是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了\n\n02:50.679 --> 02:53.161\n明確一點好不好?確定開會之後發函?\n\n03:07.230 --> 03:07.390\n三天內?\n\n03:27.463 --> 03:27.683\n三天內\n\n03:56.790 --> 04:25.443\n本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導\n\n04:26.820 --> 04:38.150\n媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成\n\n04:45.779 --> 05:07.496\n報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。\n\n05:10.678 --> 05:30.105\n好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員\n\n05:33.806 --> 05:44.194\n2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方\n\n05:45.185 --> 06:14.125\n我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案\n\n06:15.104 --> 06:21.327\n市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在\n\n06:41.738 --> 07:10.295\n報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道\n\n07:10.655 --> 07:16.439\n教育部身為中央主管機關,每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗\n\n07:33.235 --> 07:44.121\n委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的是多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的\n\n07:56.647 --> 08:19.419\n五分之一委員跟你們你為什麼憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加1600人這就是解方跟委員報告是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員發展遲緩、勤障重度或是智障重度等等六類人員加起來1600漁民這1600漁民需要比較重的\n\n08:23.661 --> 08:25.401\n本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢?\n\n08:53.142 --> 09:19.913\n還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子\n\n09:22.281 --> 09:48.354\n我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心、非常的辛苦社長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊\n\n09:49.395 --> 10:11.037\n因為縣市會我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款\n\n10:12.591 --> 10:18.944\n不要再造成說中央要給地方地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員\n\n10:20.479 --> 10:49.330\n有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的不用的部分我們會採用癒合的方式\n\n10:50.030 --> 10:50.190\n余禾\n\n10:59.403 --> 11:19.249\n您所說的大概有兩次,您說的之前我們就是用癒合,但我們通常會一定的時間,比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候,如果他執行的不夠,那個量我們會再補給他。大概一直以來因為是用癒合的經驗,所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗,讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少,或是沒有發生。\n\n11:22.370 --> 11:48.700\n所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次\n\n11:49.540 --> 11:57.682\n本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000\n\n12:18.388 --> 12:47.267\n我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝\n\n12:48.491 --> 12:48.693\n謝謝洪委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.676,"end":13.698,"text":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請林滕教部次長。好,林次長,謝謝。"},{"start":18.93,"end":36.246,"text":"今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠"},{"start":37.389,"end":59.923,"text":"安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴"},{"start":60.783,"end":79.152,"text":"後來戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟"},{"start":80.432,"end":80.893,"text":"有要求嗎?"},{"start":105.525,"end":128.923,"text":"這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠 是不是白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班級裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的"},{"start":129.99,"end":135.577,"text":"目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合所以有8%可能是特教92%的身心障礙學員會進到我們一般學校的普通班"},{"start":144.471,"end":169.779,"text":"是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了"},{"start":170.679,"end":173.161,"text":"明確一點好不好?確定開會之後發函?"},{"start":187.23,"end":187.39,"text":"三天內?"},{"start":207.463,"end":207.683,"text":"三天內"},{"start":236.79,"end":265.443,"text":"本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導"},{"start":266.82,"end":278.15,"text":"媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成"},{"start":285.779,"end":307.496,"text":"報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。"},{"start":310.678,"end":330.105,"text":"好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員"},{"start":333.806,"end":344.194,"text":"2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方"},{"start":345.185,"end":374.125,"text":"我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案"},{"start":375.104,"end":381.327,"text":"市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在"},{"start":401.738,"end":430.295,"text":"報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道"},{"start":430.655,"end":436.439,"text":"教育部身為中央主管機關,每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗"},{"start":453.235,"end":464.121,"text":"委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的是多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的"},{"start":476.647,"end":499.419,"text":"五分之一委員跟你們你為什麼憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加1600人這就是解方跟委員報告是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員發展遲緩、勤障重度或是智障重度等等六類人員加起來1600漁民這1600漁民需要比較重的"},{"start":503.661,"end":505.401,"text":"本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢?"},{"start":533.142,"end":559.913,"text":"還是用最低薪資三萬一千七百二十五三萬一三萬一千七百二十五七百二十五是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下四月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲三萬一有一句話講得很好就說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子"},{"start":562.281,"end":588.354,"text":"我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業、非常的用心、非常的辛苦社長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊"},{"start":589.395,"end":611.037,"text":"因為縣市會 我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方 地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是 如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款"},{"start":612.591,"end":618.944,"text":"不要再造成說中央要給地方 地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員"},{"start":620.479,"end":649.33,"text":"有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的不用的部分我們會採用癒合的方式"},{"start":650.03,"end":650.19,"text":"余禾"},{"start":659.403,"end":679.249,"text":"您所說的大概有兩次,您說的之前我們就是用癒合,但我們通常會一定的時間,比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候,如果他執行的不夠,那個量我們會再補給他。大概一直以來因為是用癒合的經驗,所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗,讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少,或是沒有發生。"},{"start":682.37,"end":708.7,"text":"所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次"},{"start":709.54,"end":717.682,"text":"本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000"},{"start":738.388,"end":767.267,"text":"我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝"},{"start":768.491,"end":768.693,"text":"謝謝洪委員 謝謝"}]}}}}