{"id":150194,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150194","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052fd0f125499d31766e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a648f0692f9e8f88e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:24:29 - 09:36:16","影片長度":"00:11:47","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":707,"end_time":"2024-03-21T09:36:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T09:24:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":191,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時24分）有請部長。"],["主席：我們請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：部長，我們國營事業的調薪什麼時候可以比照公務人員提升到4%？這個從上屆一再跟您追到現在了，一直還是沒有下文。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。因為國營事業預算程序上會比公務……"],["林委員岱樺：直接講日期。"],["王部長美花：比較晚一點。原則上我們都會讓它儘量可以比照，因為……"],["林委員岱樺：現在3月了。"],["王部長美花：我們的國營事業確實……"],["林委員岱樺：是要黃金10年以後再核嗎？還是什麼時候要核？"],["王部長美花：不是，因為都有相關的程序，各個公司還在算，會送給國營司審查。"],["林委員岱樺：司長回答吧！"],["胡司長文中：現在幾家公司還在細算，因為這次調薪，我們希望基層的同仁能夠有比較高的調幅。"],["林委員岱樺：現在3月，什麼時候能夠核定？"],["胡司長文中：看看公司什麼時候會送來，到目前為止，這幾家公司還沒有送來。"],["林委員岱樺：6月可以嗎？你可以開一個協調會，每個公司的董事長、總經理都邀來。"],["胡司長文中：是，我們會儘快。"],["林委員岱樺：現在3月，4月以前可以嗎？"],["胡司長文中：我們程序走完就可……而且都會追溯到1月。"],["林委員岱樺：好，都會追溯到1月，所以確定是提升到4%，就是調薪4%。"],["胡司長文中：是，我們會參照。"],["林委員岱樺：好，績效獎金什麼時候核定？"],["胡司長文中：績效獎金跟調薪一樣，涉及政策因素。我們這個月底會開審議會，審議會完以後我們就會進行相關的程序。"],["林委員岱樺：好，進入水公司的質詢。有水當思無水之苦，本席從防治漏水看台水的虧損，台水虧損的原因是因為現在要維修7萬6,000公里的管線，台水目前的狀況自負盈虧，而且是舉債修漏水。在極端氣候下水資源更行珍貴，本席有一些具體的建議。台水虧損的原因，本席爬梳的結果有四個，第一個，養護面積非常大。全臺灣有兩個水公司，一個是北水處，是臺北市政府所轄；一個是我們經濟部所轄。臺北市人口密集，而且水費徵收的相對高，單位服務的人口也較多；但是台水不一樣，任何偏鄉都一定要提供水管到那個地方，所以台水現在有超過7萬6,000公里的自來水管路需要維護跟更新。第二個，水價長期一國兩制，水費的遊戲規則偏利於用水大戶。經濟部沒有確實督導，你說督導，你有督導，你有關心，但是一點都不重視台水，所以上屆的時候本席就希望你們比照北水，用水大戶的級距一定要匡列出來，你們到現在還是不動。第三個，為什麼虧損？成本上漲、利息沉重。這7萬6,000公里的自來水管是有折舊的，乾旱的時候減供，自來水也要提供補償，電力成本上漲，連台水本身都是用電大戶，現在負債利息沉重。第四個，現在怎麼做水管呢？自行舉債籌措經費。","我講到這邊，我都認為台水很棒。等一下，我說棒不是我對他們有什麼，而是數據會說話，我再提供一些數據，7萬6,000公里管線的維護成本是相當高的。我們看右邊的圖，這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站截取下來的，是世界各國主要城市的漏水率。這個圖我一看嚇一跳，台水這麼棒，漏水率現在到12.54%，在全球竟然算是漏水率低的國家，排名第6名，第1名荷蘭，第2名丹麥，漏水率7%，日本跟我們相近，漏水率7.65%，然後葡萄牙、里斯本、法國。除了日本跟我們地形相近之外，其他都是城市型的國家。這7萬6,000公里是什麼概念？不是赤道的直徑，地球的赤道這樣繞一圈是多長？4萬公里，我們7萬6,000公里，養護的管線繞地球的赤道2圈了，這樣還能夠維持漏水率達前段班，我真的覺得台水了不起。","再來，穩定供水讓民眾用水無虞，難道他們沒付出成本嗎？爬梳的結果，全臺灣的水醫生才幾位？80位，這樣的水醫生要因應所有大大小小的管線上山下海，竟然才80位，每天要走3萬公里，我們任何地下水管破損，他一定是第一個搶到最前線。這個如果再不修，再到我們地方，馬上民怨四起，可是台水都是在第一線。","好，再來，它自負盈虧，這10年來，102年到113年，我們的漏水率原來達二十幾趴，我的印象中都有達23%，到現在降到十二點多趴，降了7.55%，這是什麼概念？每年降漏水超過一個石門水庫即2.5億噸，到底2.5億噸的成本是多少？右下角我就爬梳出來，石門水庫到底造價多少？西元1964年造價32億，32億是1964年全國GDP1,000億的幾趴？3%。如果照現在的數字，我就調2022年的數字，全國GDP的3%是多少？600億，所以照這個算，我們台水公司每年減少漏水率的貢獻是節省一座石門水庫，是減少每年600億的功勞，但是沒有調整水價，自行舉債還有這樣的績效。好，它舉債多少？累計1,044.25億，我真不曉得民間公司這樣怎麼還活得下去？台電1年虧損3億，我們行政院支持、經濟部支持，中油1年虧損2,000億，我們經濟部也跟行政院講這要支持。台水累計虧損到1,044.25億，每年繼續虧損平均40億，我不曉得它還能撐多久，它一直都等不到部長跟行政院的支持。","在極端氣候下水資源更珍貴了，我也詢問過中央氣象署，今年的降雨還是正常偏少，春夏季還是有可能乾旱，也可以說乾旱是這一年的必然，所以我們對水資源的調控當然要特別注意。民生自來用水當中，水公司……剛才我有注意聽董事長報告，他說我們希望降低漏水率，達到10%。如果這樣的話我再降2%，每年可以再省下一個湖山水庫，它的造價是200億，是5,000萬噸的水量，如果能夠再給它錢，給它資源，我一年就省了200億，要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了。伏流水沒有錯，我要給經濟部鼓勵，多元水源的採取你們有盡心盡力，但是你說伏流水，水量多它就多，水量少它就沒有，所以像今年的伏流水可以預測是少的。","經濟部要重視管線漏水的問題，我具體建議，第一個，比照臺北自來水事業處，研議每個月用水1,000噸以上的用水大戶新增收費的級距，以彰顯用水正義。第二個，在維護民生物價穩定之下，經濟部應該積極主動向行政院爭取給予台水補助，以平衡虧損。要補助它多少？本席建議2年，1年700億，趕快平息虧損，因為它累積舉債1,044億。你不用行政的力量補助它，它只有一直累積虧損，每年還繼續虧40億。在開源節流當中我們是不利的，因為連用水大戶你都不課了。臺北自來水公司都課，台水為什麼不課？用水大戶1,000噸以上，你為什麼要放任它，繼續讓台水虧損？第三個，由中央補助台水公司，加速進行老舊管線汰換，以再降低2%的漏水率為目標。如果你們認為降低漏水率是經濟部的目標，你的前瞻計畫第五期有沒有納入呢？請簡單回應。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，相關用水大戶的部分，我們會跟耗水率的部分一起來檢討，台水的部分，我們也再跟台水討論，有一些部分可以用相關的公務預算來支應，我們一定會來爭取。"],["林委員岱樺：本席認為耗水率是無效的，所以你就直接找用水大戶，直接定級距比較快……"],["王部長美花：是。"],["林委員岱樺：不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些技巧，結果你還是課不到……"],["主席：好，再請部長將委員要的相關資料詳實跟委員說明，謝謝。"],["林委員岱樺：或課的量少。"],["王部長美花：是，謝謝委員的意見，我們再提供。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝。","等一下，台水累積舉債的部分應該要給予補助，你要不要努力分2年幫它的累積舉債1,044億給予補助，台電都可以做，中油可以做，為什麼台水不能做？"],["王部長美花：它是舉債，不是虧損啦……"],["林委員岱樺：所以繼續讓它虧！它虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎……"],["王部長美花：不是，我只是跟委員講……"],["林委員岱樺：它是真的實施到我們所有的公共建設，不管你調度管線，你現在從臺南到我們高雄的曾文水庫這條管線，這也是他們積極去處理啊……"],["主席：好，再請部長詳實資料給委員說明清楚，謝謝。"],["林委員岱樺：都是舉債啊！舉債是在做公共建設耶！所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來平損這樣的累積虧損嗎？"],["王部長美花：會、會，我會來爭取。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝，這是大家的心聲，一起加油，謝謝。","接下來請陳亭妃委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","黃國昌","王鴻薇","何欣純","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","邱議瑩","劉建國"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。（詢\n答）","agenda_id":"1131801_00013"}},"transcript":{"id":"150194","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150194","tool":"pyannote","id":"150194-pyannote"},"job_id":"8xhtg6iIv7oIGThW","queued_at":"2024-06-01 23:01:51","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 23:02:40","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150194"},{"time":"2024-06-01 23:02:41","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052fd0f125499d31766e8dac5750a339bf8e1d6f63d8c2db1b9f4dea50f3e9906e75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 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--> 00:01:25,631\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n6\n00:01:45,643 --> 00:02:13,578\n那今天進入到我們水公司的質詢那有水當時無水之苦本席從漏水的房子來看臺水的虧損好臺水的虧損的原因以及現在要維修7萬6千公里的管線臺水目前的狀況自負盈虧而且是舉在修漏水在極端氣候下水資源更新增貴本席有些具體的建議好臺水虧損的原因本席爬梳的結果有4個\n\n7\n00:02:14,258 --> 00:02:29,754\n有一個養父面積非常的大全台灣有兩個水公司一個是北水處臺北市政府所轄一個是我們經濟部所轄好那這個臺北市政府人口密集而且他水費徵收的也相對高喔\n\n8\n00:02:30,495 --> 00:02:30,535\n蘇貞茵蘇貞茵\n\n9\n00:03:00,675 --> 00:03:03,978\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位\n\n10\n00:03:25,296 --> 00:03:33,909\n好那這個包括第三個為什麼虧損成本上漲利息沉重這76000公里的自來水管是有折舊的\n\n11\n00:03:35,185 --> 00:04:02,978\n乾旱的時候減工自來水也要提供補償電力成本上漲連台水本身都是用電大戶現在是負債利息沉重第四個他現在怎麼的來做這個水管呢自行舉債籌措經費所以我講到這邊啊我都認為台水很棒等一下我這些棒啊不是我對他們有有什麼我就數據會說話我再提供一些數據\n\n12\n00:04:04,551 --> 00:04:30,620\n好7萬6千管線的維護成本是相當我們看右邊這個圖這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站去擷取下來的世界各國主要城市的漏水率哇這個圖我一看我嚇一跳台水這麼棒啊它漏水率百分現在是到12.54喔它竟然排全球算是漏水率低的國家它排名2、4、6第6名\n\n13\n00:04:33,081 --> 00:04:59,335\n第一名河南第二名丹麥漏水率7日本跟我們相近他漏水率7.65葡萄牙、里斯本、法國除了日本跟我們地形相近之外其他都是城市型的國家然後呢這76000公里是什麼概念就是我們地球的圓周繞一圈以次到這樣繞一圈不是次到的直徑喔是次到這樣繞一圈\n\n14\n00:05:01,883 --> 00:05:27,030\n是多長?4萬公里我們7萬6千公里我們養護的管線有繞地球四道兩圈啊所以還能夠維持漏水力達前段班我真的覺得台水了不起再來但是這樣的穩定供水民眾用水無虞難道他們沒付出成本嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:42,364\n這個在爬樹的結果全台灣的台灣水醫生才幾位80位這樣的一個水醫生對所有大大小小的管線上山下海竟然才80位每天要走3萬公里\n\n16\n00:05:43,697 --> 00:06:07,822\n然後我們任何地下水管它破的這個破損它一定是第一個搶到最前線這個如果再不修再到我們地方馬上就是民怨四起可是台水都中在第一線好再來它自負盈虧從這10年來102年到113年我們從降漏水率達20幾%我的印象中都有達23%到現在降到12點多%\n\n17\n00:06:09,562 --> 00:06:15,668\n降了7.55這什麼概念呢每年降漏水是超過一個石門水庫2.5億噸那到底這個2.5億噸的成本是多少呢我這個右下角我就爬書出來這個石門水庫到底造價多少\n\n18\n00:06:25,057 --> 00:06:30,442\n民國7月1964年造價32億,32億是當時全國1964年的全國GDP1000億的幾%?3%如果照現在我就掉2022年的全國GDP的3%是多少?600億所以照這個算石門水庫每年我們台水公司的貢獻\n\n19\n00:06:48,999 --> 00:07:05,653\n每年這個漏水利的降降這個減少漏水利節省的10門水庫一座是減少了每年600億的這個功勞但是呢沒有調整水價自行舉債還有這樣的績效好那他舉債多少啊\n\n20\n00:07:06,334 --> 00:07:18,882\n累計1044.25億我真不曉得還有民間公司這個怎麼還活得下去臺電一年虧損3億我們這個行政院支持經濟部支持臺電臺中油呢一年虧損2000億我們經濟部呢也跟行政院講這要支持我不知道臺水累計虧損到1044.25億他每年繼續虧損40億平均\n\n21\n00:07:36,474 --> 00:08:01,465\n我不曉得他還能撐多久一直都得不到我們部長跟行政院的支持極端氣候下水資源更新珍貴了我也詢問過中央氣象署今年的降雨都還是正常偏少春夏季都還是有可能乾旱的也可以說是乾旱這一年的必然了\n\n22\n00:08:02,405 --> 00:08:18,497\n所以我們對於水資源的調控上當然要特別注意民生自來用水當中水公司剛才我有注意聽到董事長的報告他說我們希望朝向降漏率漏水率能夠達到10%\n\n23\n00:08:20,498 --> 00:08:35,138\n好,如果這樣的話我再降兩趴我每年可以再省下每年喔再省下一個湖山水庫造價是兩百億五千萬噸的水量所以啊如果能夠再給他錢給他資源\n\n24\n00:08:37,501 --> 00:09:03,441\n我一年就省了200億欸要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了浮流水沒有錯你們很這個經濟部我要給他鼓勵多元水源的這個採取好這個你們是有盡心盡力好你說到浮流水水量多他就多水量少他就沒有好所以像今年的浮流水是可以預測是可以是少的好那這個經濟部呢你要重視這個管線漏水的問題\n\n25\n00:09:04,642 --> 00:09:28,425\n好那我這邊具體建議第一個比照台北自來水事業處研議每個月的用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費的急劇以彰顯用水正義第二個呢在維護民生物價的穩定之下經濟部應該積極主動的向行政院爭取給予台水補助以平衡虧損\n\n26\n00:09:29,446 --> 00:09:32,469\n要補助他多少?本期建議兩年,一年700億趕快把虧損平息掉,累計舉債1440億或者你不補助他,你不用行政的力量去補助他他只有一支的債累計虧損,每年還繼續虧40億\n\n27\n00:09:50,427 --> 00:10:06,327\n在開發財源節流當中我們是不利的連用水大戶你都不課了台北自來水公司都課你為什麼台水不課用水大戶1000度以上你為什麼要放任他然後再繼續的讓台水虧損\n\n28\n00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:23,156\n然後第三個由中央補助台水公司加速進行老舊管線汰換再降低百分之二的漏水率為目標你的前瞻計畫有沒有認為如果漏水率認為是你的經濟部目標你的前瞻計畫第5期你有沒有納入呢\n\n29\n00:10:24,432 --> 00:10:25,533\n本席認為耗水率是無效的。\n\n30\n00:10:45,794 --> 00:10:55,007\n所以你就直接就用水刀直接把它定級去比較快不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些在想一些技巧結果你還是課不到或課的量少\n\n31\n00:10:57,901 --> 00:11:01,485\n是是謝謝委員等一下等一下你們台水累計舉債的部分分兩年你要不要努力分兩年幫他的累計舉債1044億應該要給予補助啊台電都可以做中油可以做為什麼台水不能做這個相關他是舉債不是虧損啦所以他繼續讓他虧他虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎我只是跟委員講還是說他是\n\n32\n00:11:20,524 --> 00:11:32,272\n真的實施到我們所有的公共建設不管你調度管線你像從台南到我們高雄現在你的徵維管線這也是他們自己去處理啊都是舉債啊舉債是在做公共建設欸所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來評審這樣的一個累積虧損嗎會會我會來評審好謝謝這是大家的心聲一起加油謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2295\t4881\t有請部長我們請王部長\n11648\t37045\t委員好,部長我們國營事業的這個條新啊那什麼時候可以比照公務人員提升到4%這個從上屆一直再次的跟您追到現在了一直還是沒有下文謝謝委員那因為公務這個國營事業的預算他的程序上會比公務這個直接講日期比較晚一點那原則上我們\n37905\t38246\t市長回答吧。\n56369\t84512\t對,就是現在幾家公司還在細算,因為這次的調薪我們希望有一些這個對於基層的同仁能夠有比較高一點的條幅。現在3月什麼時候能夠核定?就看看公司什麼時候會送來,到目前為止還沒有,還沒有4家公司還沒有送來。6月可以嗎?你可以去開個協調會啊,每個公司的董事長都要來啊,總經理都要來。好,我們會儘快,是,我們會儘快。在現在3月、4月以前可以嗎?我們程序走完就,而且都會追溯到1月。\n85131\t85631\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n105643\t133578\t那今天進入到我們水公司的質詢那有水當時無水之苦本席從漏水的房子來看臺水的虧損好臺水的虧損的原因以及現在要維修7萬6千公里的管線臺水目前的狀況自負盈虧而且是舉在修漏水在極端氣候下水資源更新增貴本席有些具體的建議好臺水虧損的原因本席爬梳的結果有4個\n134258\t149754\t有一個養父面積非常的大全台灣有兩個水公司一個是北水處臺北市政府所轄一個是我們經濟部所轄好那這個臺北市政府人口密集而且他水費徵收的也相對高喔\n150495\t150535\t蘇貞茵 蘇貞茵\n180675\t183978\t中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位\n205296\t213909\t好那這個包括第三個為什麼虧損成本上漲利息沉重這76000公里的自來水管是有折舊的\n215185\t242978\t乾旱的時候減工自來水也要提供補償電力成本上漲連台水本身都是用電大戶現在是負債利息沉重第四個他現在怎麼的來做這個水管呢自行舉債籌措經費所以我講到這邊啊我都認為台水很棒等一下我這些棒啊不是我對他們有有什麼我就數據會說話我再提供一些數據\n244551\t270620\t好7萬6千管線的維護成本是相當我們看右邊這個圖這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站去擷取下來的世界各國主要城市的漏水率哇這個圖我一看我嚇一跳台水這麼棒啊它漏水率百分現在是到12.54喔它竟然排全球算是漏水率低的國家它排名2、4、6第6名\n273081\t299335\t第一名河南第二名丹麥漏水率7日本跟我們相近他漏水率7.65葡萄牙、里斯本、法國除了日本跟我們地形相近之外其他都是城市型的國家然後呢這76000公里是什麼概念就是我們地球的圓周繞一圈以次到這樣繞一圈不是次到的直徑喔是次到這樣繞一圈\n301883\t327030\t是多長?4萬公里我們7萬6千公里我們養護的管線有繞地球四道兩圈啊所以還能夠維持漏水力達前段班我真的覺得台水了不起再來但是這樣的穩定供水民眾用水無虞難道他們沒付出成本嗎?\n328110\t342364\t這個在爬樹的結果全台灣的台灣水醫生才幾位80位這樣的一個水醫生對所有大大小小的管線上山下海竟然才80位每天要走3萬公里\n343697\t367822\t然後我們任何地下水管它破的這個破損它一定是第一個搶到最前線這個如果再不修再到我們地方馬上就是民怨四起可是台水都中在第一線好再來它自負盈虧從這10年來102年到113年我們從降漏水率達20幾%我的印象中都有達23%到現在降到12點多%\n369562\t375668\t降了7.55這什麼概念呢每年降漏水是超過一個石門水庫2.5億噸那到底這個2.5億噸的成本是多少呢我這個右下角我就爬書出來這個石門水庫到底造價多少\n385057\t390442\t民國7月1964年造價32億,32億是當時全國1964年的全國GDP1000億的幾%?3%如果照現在我就掉2022年的全國GDP的3%是多少?600億所以照這個算石門水庫每年我們台水公司的貢獻\n408999\t425653\t每年這個漏水利的降降這個減少漏水利節省的10門水庫一座是減少了每年600億的這個功勞但是呢沒有調整水價自行舉債還有這樣的績效好那他舉債多少啊\n426334\t438882\t累計1044.25億我真不曉得還有民間公司這個怎麼還活得下去臺電一年虧損3億我們這個行政院支持經濟部支持臺電臺中油呢一年虧損2000億我們經濟部呢也跟行政院講這要支持我不知道臺水累計虧損到1044.25億他每年繼續虧損40億平均\n456474\t481465\t我不曉得他還能撐多久一直都得不到我們部長跟行政院的支持極端氣候下水資源更新珍貴了我也詢問過中央氣象署今年的降雨都還是正常偏少春夏季都還是有可能乾旱的也可以說是乾旱這一年的必然了\n482405\t498497\t所以我們對於水資源的調控上當然要特別注意民生自來用水當中水公司剛才我有注意聽到董事長的報告他說我們希望朝向降漏率漏水率能夠達到10%\n500498\t515138\t好,如果這樣的話我再降兩趴我每年可以再省下每年喔再省下一個湖山水庫造價是兩百億五千萬噸的水量所以啊如果能夠再給他錢給他資源\n517501\t543441\t我一年就省了200億欸要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了浮流水沒有錯你們很 這個經濟部我要給他鼓勵多元水源的這個採取好 這個你們是有盡心盡力好 你說到浮流水水量多他就多水量少他就沒有好 所以像今年的浮流水是可以預測是可以是少的好 那這個經濟部呢你要重視這個管線漏水的問題\n544642\t568425\t好那我這邊具體建議第一個比照台北自來水事業處研議每個月的用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費的急劇以彰顯用水正義第二個呢在維護民生物價的穩定之下經濟部應該積極主動的向行政院爭取給予台水補助以平衡虧損\n569446\t572469\t要補助他多少?本期建議兩年,一年700億趕快把虧損平息掉,累計舉債1440億或者你不補助他,你不用行政的力量去補助他他只有一支的債累計虧損,每年還繼續虧40億\n590427\t606327\t在開發財源節流當中我們是不利的連用水大戶你都不課了台北自來水公司都課你為什麼台水不課用水大戶1000度以上你為什麼要放任他然後再繼續的讓台水虧損\n608274\t623156\t然後第三個由中央補助台水公司加速進行老舊管線汰換再降低百分之二的漏水率為目標你的前瞻計畫有沒有認為如果漏水率認為是你的經濟部目標你的前瞻計畫第5期你有沒有納入呢\n624432\t625533\t本席認為耗水率是無效的。\n645794\t655007\t所以你就直接就用水刀直接把它定級去比較快不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些在想一些技巧結果你還是課不到或課的量少\n657901\t661485\t是 是 謝謝委員 等一下等一下你們台水累計舉債的部分分兩年你要不要努力分兩年幫他的累計舉債1044億應該要給予補助啊 台電都可以做 中油可以做 為什麼台水不能做這個相關他是舉債不是虧損啦 所以他繼續讓他虧 他虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎 我只是跟委員講 還是說他是\n680524\t692272\t真的實施到我們所有的公共建設不管你調度管線你像從台南到我們高雄現在你的徵維管線這也是他們自己去處理啊都是舉債啊舉債是在做公共建設欸所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來評審這樣的一個累積虧損嗎會會我會來評審好謝謝這是大家的心聲一起加油謝謝\n","txt":"有請部長我們請王部長\n委員好,部長我們國營事業的這個條新啊那什麼時候可以比照公務人員提升到4%這個從上屆一直再次的跟您追到現在了一直還是沒有下文謝謝委員那因為公務這個國營事業的預算他的程序上會比公務這個直接講日期比較晚一點那原則上我們\n市長回答吧。\n對,就是現在幾家公司還在細算,因為這次的調薪我們希望有一些這個對於基層的同仁能夠有比較高一點的條幅。現在3月什麼時候能夠核定?就看看公司什麼時候會送來,到目前為止還沒有,還沒有4家公司還沒有送來。6月可以嗎?你可以去開個協調會啊,每個公司的董事長都要來啊,總經理都要來。好,我們會儘快,是,我們會儘快。在現在3月、4月以前可以嗎?我們程序走完就,而且都會追溯到1月。\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n那今天進入到我們水公司的質詢那有水當時無水之苦本席從漏水的房子來看臺水的虧損好臺水的虧損的原因以及現在要維修7萬6千公里的管線臺水目前的狀況自負盈虧而且是舉在修漏水在極端氣候下水資源更新增貴本席有些具體的建議好臺水虧損的原因本席爬梳的結果有4個\n有一個養父面積非常的大全台灣有兩個水公司一個是北水處臺北市政府所轄一個是我們經濟部所轄好那這個臺北市政府人口密集而且他水費徵收的也相對高喔\n蘇貞茵 蘇貞茵\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位\n好那這個包括第三個為什麼虧損成本上漲利息沉重這76000公里的自來水管是有折舊的\n乾旱的時候減工自來水也要提供補償電力成本上漲連台水本身都是用電大戶現在是負債利息沉重第四個他現在怎麼的來做這個水管呢自行舉債籌措經費所以我講到這邊啊我都認為台水很棒等一下我這些棒啊不是我對他們有有什麼我就數據會說話我再提供一些數據\n好7萬6千管線的維護成本是相當我們看右邊這個圖這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站去擷取下來的世界各國主要城市的漏水率哇這個圖我一看我嚇一跳台水這麼棒啊它漏水率百分現在是到12.54喔它竟然排全球算是漏水率低的國家它排名2、4、6第6名\n第一名河南第二名丹麥漏水率7日本跟我們相近他漏水率7.65葡萄牙、里斯本、法國除了日本跟我們地形相近之外其他都是城市型的國家然後呢這76000公里是什麼概念就是我們地球的圓周繞一圈以次到這樣繞一圈不是次到的直徑喔是次到這樣繞一圈\n是多長?4萬公里我們7萬6千公里我們養護的管線有繞地球四道兩圈啊所以還能夠維持漏水力達前段班我真的覺得台水了不起再來但是這樣的穩定供水民眾用水無虞難道他們沒付出成本嗎?\n這個在爬樹的結果全台灣的台灣水醫生才幾位80位這樣的一個水醫生對所有大大小小的管線上山下海竟然才80位每天要走3萬公里\n然後我們任何地下水管它破的這個破損它一定是第一個搶到最前線這個如果再不修再到我們地方馬上就是民怨四起可是台水都中在第一線好再來它自負盈虧從這10年來102年到113年我們從降漏水率達20幾%我的印象中都有達23%到現在降到12點多%\n降了7.55這什麼概念呢每年降漏水是超過一個石門水庫2.5億噸那到底這個2.5億噸的成本是多少呢我這個右下角我就爬書出來這個石門水庫到底造價多少\n民國7月1964年造價32億,32億是當時全國1964年的全國GDP1000億的幾%?3%如果照現在我就掉2022年的全國GDP的3%是多少?600億所以照這個算石門水庫每年我們台水公司的貢獻\n每年這個漏水利的降降這個減少漏水利節省的10門水庫一座是減少了每年600億的這個功勞但是呢沒有調整水價自行舉債還有這樣的績效好那他舉債多少啊\n累計1044.25億我真不曉得還有民間公司這個怎麼還活得下去臺電一年虧損3億我們這個行政院支持經濟部支持臺電臺中油呢一年虧損2000億我們經濟部呢也跟行政院講這要支持我不知道臺水累計虧損到1044.25億他每年繼續虧損40億平均\n我不曉得他還能撐多久一直都得不到我們部長跟行政院的支持極端氣候下水資源更新珍貴了我也詢問過中央氣象署今年的降雨都還是正常偏少春夏季都還是有可能乾旱的也可以說是乾旱這一年的必然了\n所以我們對於水資源的調控上當然要特別注意民生自來用水當中水公司剛才我有注意聽到董事長的報告他說我們希望朝向降漏率漏水率能夠達到10%\n好,如果這樣的話我再降兩趴我每年可以再省下每年喔再省下一個湖山水庫造價是兩百億五千萬噸的水量所以啊如果能夠再給他錢給他資源\n我一年就省了200億欸要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了浮流水沒有錯你們很 這個經濟部我要給他鼓勵多元水源的這個採取好 這個你們是有盡心盡力好 你說到浮流水水量多他就多水量少他就沒有好 所以像今年的浮流水是可以預測是可以是少的好 那這個經濟部呢你要重視這個管線漏水的問題\n好那我這邊具體建議第一個比照台北自來水事業處研議每個月的用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費的急劇以彰顯用水正義第二個呢在維護民生物價的穩定之下經濟部應該積極主動的向行政院爭取給予台水補助以平衡虧損\n要補助他多少?本期建議兩年,一年700億趕快把虧損平息掉,累計舉債1440億或者你不補助他,你不用行政的力量去補助他他只有一支的債累計虧損,每年還繼續虧40億\n在開發財源節流當中我們是不利的連用水大戶你都不課了台北自來水公司都課你為什麼台水不課用水大戶1000度以上你為什麼要放任他然後再繼續的讓台水虧損\n然後第三個由中央補助台水公司加速進行老舊管線汰換再降低百分之二的漏水率為目標你的前瞻計畫有沒有認為如果漏水率認為是你的經濟部目標你的前瞻計畫第5期你有沒有納入呢\n本席認為耗水率是無效的。\n所以你就直接就用水刀直接把它定級去比較快不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些在想一些技巧結果你還是課不到或課的量少\n是 是 謝謝委員 等一下等一下你們台水累計舉債的部分分兩年你要不要努力分兩年幫他的累計舉債1044億應該要給予補助啊 台電都可以做 中油可以做 為什麼台水不能做這個相關他是舉債不是虧損啦 所以他繼續讓他虧 他虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎 我只是跟委員講 還是說他是\n真的實施到我們所有的公共建設不管你調度管線你像從台南到我們高雄現在你的徵維管線這也是他們自己去處理啊都是舉債啊舉債是在做公共建設欸所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來評審這樣的一個累積虧損嗎會會我會來評審好謝謝這是大家的心聲一起加油謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.295 --> 00:04.881\n有請部長我們請王部長\n\n00:11.648 --> 00:37.045\n委員好,部長我們國營事業的這個條新啊那什麼時候可以比照公務人員提升到4%這個從上屆一直再次的跟您追到現在了一直還是沒有下文謝謝委員那因為公務這個國營事業的預算他的程序上會比公務這個直接講日期比較晚一點那原則上我們\n\n00:37.905 --> 00:38.246\n市長回答吧。\n\n00:56.369 --> 01:24.512\n對,就是現在幾家公司還在細算,因為這次的調薪我們希望有一些這個對於基層的同仁能夠有比較高一點的條幅。現在3月什麼時候能夠核定?就看看公司什麼時候會送來,到目前為止還沒有,還沒有4家公司還沒有送來。6月可以嗎?你可以去開個協調會啊,每個公司的董事長都要來啊,總經理都要來。好,我們會儘快,是,我們會儘快。在現在3月、4月以前可以嗎?我們程序走完就,而且都會追溯到1月。\n\n01:25.131 --> 01:25.631\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n01:45.643 --> 02:13.578\n那今天進入到我們水公司的質詢那有水當時無水之苦本席從漏水的房子來看臺水的虧損好臺水的虧損的原因以及現在要維修7萬6千公里的管線臺水目前的狀況自負盈虧而且是舉在修漏水在極端氣候下水資源更新增貴本席有些具體的建議好臺水虧損的原因本席爬梳的結果有4個\n\n02:14.258 --> 02:29.754\n有一個養父面積非常的大全台灣有兩個水公司一個是北水處臺北市政府所轄一個是我們經濟部所轄好那這個臺北市政府人口密集而且他水費徵收的也相對高喔\n\n02:30.495 --> 02:30.535\n蘇貞茵蘇貞茵\n\n03:00.675 --> 03:03.978\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位\n\n03:25.296 --> 03:33.909\n好那這個包括第三個為什麼虧損成本上漲利息沉重這76000公里的自來水管是有折舊的\n\n03:35.185 --> 04:02.978\n乾旱的時候減工自來水也要提供補償電力成本上漲連台水本身都是用電大戶現在是負債利息沉重第四個他現在怎麼的來做這個水管呢自行舉債籌措經費所以我講到這邊啊我都認為台水很棒等一下我這些棒啊不是我對他們有有什麼我就數據會說話我再提供一些數據\n\n04:04.551 --> 04:30.620\n好7萬6千管線的維護成本是相當我們看右邊這個圖這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站去擷取下來的世界各國主要城市的漏水率哇這個圖我一看我嚇一跳台水這麼棒啊它漏水率百分現在是到12.54喔它竟然排全球算是漏水率低的國家它排名2、4、6第6名\n\n04:33.081 --> 04:59.335\n第一名河南第二名丹麥漏水率7日本跟我們相近他漏水率7.65葡萄牙、里斯本、法國除了日本跟我們地形相近之外其他都是城市型的國家然後呢這76000公里是什麼概念就是我們地球的圓周繞一圈以次到這樣繞一圈不是次到的直徑喔是次到這樣繞一圈\n\n05:01.883 --> 05:27.030\n是多長?4萬公里我們7萬6千公里我們養護的管線有繞地球四道兩圈啊所以還能夠維持漏水力達前段班我真的覺得台水了不起再來但是這樣的穩定供水民眾用水無虞難道他們沒付出成本嗎?\n\n05:28.110 --> 05:42.364\n這個在爬樹的結果全台灣的台灣水醫生才幾位80位這樣的一個水醫生對所有大大小小的管線上山下海竟然才80位每天要走3萬公里\n\n05:43.697 --> 06:07.822\n然後我們任何地下水管它破的這個破損它一定是第一個搶到最前線這個如果再不修再到我們地方馬上就是民怨四起可是台水都中在第一線好再來它自負盈虧從這10年來102年到113年我們從降漏水率達20幾%我的印象中都有達23%到現在降到12點多%\n\n06:09.562 --> 06:15.668\n降了7.55這什麼概念呢每年降漏水是超過一個石門水庫2.5億噸那到底這個2.5億噸的成本是多少呢我這個右下角我就爬書出來這個石門水庫到底造價多少\n\n06:25.057 --> 06:30.442\n民國7月1964年造價32億,32億是當時全國1964年的全國GDP1000億的幾%?3%如果照現在我就掉2022年的全國GDP的3%是多少?600億所以照這個算石門水庫每年我們台水公司的貢獻\n\n06:48.999 --> 07:05.653\n每年這個漏水利的降降這個減少漏水利節省的10門水庫一座是減少了每年600億的這個功勞但是呢沒有調整水價自行舉債還有這樣的績效好那他舉債多少啊\n\n07:06.334 --> 07:18.882\n累計1044.25億我真不曉得還有民間公司這個怎麼還活得下去臺電一年虧損3億我們這個行政院支持經濟部支持臺電臺中油呢一年虧損2000億我們經濟部呢也跟行政院講這要支持我不知道臺水累計虧損到1044.25億他每年繼續虧損40億平均\n\n07:36.474 --> 08:01.465\n我不曉得他還能撐多久一直都得不到我們部長跟行政院的支持極端氣候下水資源更新珍貴了我也詢問過中央氣象署今年的降雨都還是正常偏少春夏季都還是有可能乾旱的也可以說是乾旱這一年的必然了\n\n08:02.405 --> 08:18.497\n所以我們對於水資源的調控上當然要特別注意民生自來用水當中水公司剛才我有注意聽到董事長的報告他說我們希望朝向降漏率漏水率能夠達到10%\n\n08:20.498 --> 08:35.138\n好,如果這樣的話我再降兩趴我每年可以再省下每年喔再省下一個湖山水庫造價是兩百億五千萬噸的水量所以啊如果能夠再給他錢給他資源\n\n08:37.501 --> 09:03.441\n我一年就省了200億欸要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了浮流水沒有錯你們很這個經濟部我要給他鼓勵多元水源的這個採取好這個你們是有盡心盡力好你說到浮流水水量多他就多水量少他就沒有好所以像今年的浮流水是可以預測是可以是少的好那這個經濟部呢你要重視這個管線漏水的問題\n\n09:04.642 --> 09:28.425\n好那我這邊具體建議第一個比照台北自來水事業處研議每個月的用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費的急劇以彰顯用水正義第二個呢在維護民生物價的穩定之下經濟部應該積極主動的向行政院爭取給予台水補助以平衡虧損\n\n09:29.446 --> 09:32.469\n要補助他多少?本期建議兩年,一年700億趕快把虧損平息掉,累計舉債1440億或者你不補助他,你不用行政的力量去補助他他只有一支的債累計虧損,每年還繼續虧40億\n\n09:50.427 --> 10:06.327\n在開發財源節流當中我們是不利的連用水大戶你都不課了台北自來水公司都課你為什麼台水不課用水大戶1000度以上你為什麼要放任他然後再繼續的讓台水虧損\n\n10:08.274 --> 10:23.156\n然後第三個由中央補助台水公司加速進行老舊管線汰換再降低百分之二的漏水率為目標你的前瞻計畫有沒有認為如果漏水率認為是你的經濟部目標你的前瞻計畫第5期你有沒有納入呢\n\n10:24.432 --> 10:25.533\n本席認為耗水率是無效的。\n\n10:45.794 --> 10:55.007\n所以你就直接就用水刀直接把它定級去比較快不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些在想一些技巧結果你還是課不到或課的量少\n\n10:57.901 --> 11:01.485\n是是謝謝委員等一下等一下你們台水累計舉債的部分分兩年你要不要努力分兩年幫他的累計舉債1044億應該要給予補助啊台電都可以做中油可以做為什麼台水不能做這個相關他是舉債不是虧損啦所以他繼續讓他虧他虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎我只是跟委員講還是說他是\n\n11:20.524 --> 11:32.272\n真的實施到我們所有的公共建設不管你調度管線你像從台南到我們高雄現在你的徵維管線這也是他們自己去處理啊都是舉債啊舉債是在做公共建設欸所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來評審這樣的一個累積虧損嗎會會我會來評審好謝謝這是大家的心聲一起加油謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.295,"end":4.881,"text":"有請部長我們請王部長"},{"start":11.648,"end":37.045,"text":"委員好,部長我們國營事業的這個條新啊那什麼時候可以比照公務人員提升到4%這個從上屆一直再次的跟您追到現在了一直還是沒有下文謝謝委員那因為公務這個國營事業的預算他的程序上會比公務這個直接講日期比較晚一點那原則上我們"},{"start":37.905,"end":38.246,"text":"市長回答吧。"},{"start":56.369,"end":84.512,"text":"對,就是現在幾家公司還在細算,因為這次的調薪我們希望有一些這個對於基層的同仁能夠有比較高一點的條幅。現在3月什麼時候能夠核定?就看看公司什麼時候會送來,到目前為止還沒有,還沒有4家公司還沒有送來。6月可以嗎?你可以去開個協調會啊,每個公司的董事長都要來啊,總經理都要來。好,我們會儘快,是,我們會儘快。在現在3月、4月以前可以嗎?我們程序走完就,而且都會追溯到1月。"},{"start":85.131,"end":85.631,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":105.643,"end":133.578,"text":"那今天進入到我們水公司的質詢那有水當時無水之苦本席從漏水的房子來看臺水的虧損好臺水的虧損的原因以及現在要維修7萬6千公里的管線臺水目前的狀況自負盈虧而且是舉在修漏水在極端氣候下水資源更新增貴本席有些具體的建議好臺水虧損的原因本席爬梳的結果有4個"},{"start":134.258,"end":149.754,"text":"有一個養父面積非常的大全台灣有兩個水公司一個是北水處臺北市政府所轄一個是我們經濟部所轄好那這個臺北市政府人口密集而且他水費徵收的也相對高喔"},{"start":150.495,"end":150.535,"text":"蘇貞茵 蘇貞茵"},{"start":180.675,"end":183.978,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":205.296,"end":213.909,"text":"好那這個包括第三個為什麼虧損成本上漲利息沉重這76000公里的自來水管是有折舊的"},{"start":215.185,"end":242.978,"text":"乾旱的時候減工自來水也要提供補償電力成本上漲連台水本身都是用電大戶現在是負債利息沉重第四個他現在怎麼的來做這個水管呢自行舉債籌措經費所以我講到這邊啊我都認為台水很棒等一下我這些棒啊不是我對他們有有什麼我就數據會說話我再提供一些數據"},{"start":244.551,"end":270.62,"text":"好7萬6千管線的維護成本是相當我們看右邊這個圖這個是我從日本水道技術研究中心的網站去擷取下來的世界各國主要城市的漏水率哇這個圖我一看我嚇一跳台水這麼棒啊它漏水率百分現在是到12.54喔它竟然排全球算是漏水率低的國家它排名2、4、6第6名"},{"start":273.081,"end":299.335,"text":"第一名河南第二名丹麥漏水率7日本跟我們相近他漏水率7.65葡萄牙、里斯本、法國除了日本跟我們地形相近之外其他都是城市型的國家然後呢這76000公里是什麼概念就是我們地球的圓周繞一圈以次到這樣繞一圈不是次到的直徑喔是次到這樣繞一圈"},{"start":301.883,"end":327.03,"text":"是多長?4萬公里我們7萬6千公里我們養護的管線有繞地球四道兩圈啊所以還能夠維持漏水力達前段班我真的覺得台水了不起再來但是這樣的穩定供水民眾用水無虞難道他們沒付出成本嗎?"},{"start":328.11,"end":342.364,"text":"這個在爬樹的結果全台灣的台灣水醫生才幾位80位這樣的一個水醫生對所有大大小小的管線上山下海竟然才80位每天要走3萬公里"},{"start":343.697,"end":367.822,"text":"然後我們任何地下水管它破的這個破損它一定是第一個搶到最前線這個如果再不修再到我們地方馬上就是民怨四起可是台水都中在第一線好再來它自負盈虧從這10年來102年到113年我們從降漏水率達20幾%我的印象中都有達23%到現在降到12點多%"},{"start":369.562,"end":375.668,"text":"降了7.55這什麼概念呢每年降漏水是超過一個石門水庫2.5億噸那到底這個2.5億噸的成本是多少呢我這個右下角我就爬書出來這個石門水庫到底造價多少"},{"start":385.057,"end":390.442,"text":"民國7月1964年造價32億,32億是當時全國1964年的全國GDP1000億的幾%?3%如果照現在我就掉2022年的全國GDP的3%是多少?600億所以照這個算石門水庫每年我們台水公司的貢獻"},{"start":408.999,"end":425.653,"text":"每年這個漏水利的降降這個減少漏水利節省的10門水庫一座是減少了每年600億的這個功勞但是呢沒有調整水價自行舉債還有這樣的績效好那他舉債多少啊"},{"start":426.334,"end":438.882,"text":"累計1044.25億我真不曉得還有民間公司這個怎麼還活得下去臺電一年虧損3億我們這個行政院支持經濟部支持臺電臺中油呢一年虧損2000億我們經濟部呢也跟行政院講這要支持我不知道臺水累計虧損到1044.25億他每年繼續虧損40億平均"},{"start":456.474,"end":481.465,"text":"我不曉得他還能撐多久一直都得不到我們部長跟行政院的支持極端氣候下水資源更新珍貴了我也詢問過中央氣象署今年的降雨都還是正常偏少春夏季都還是有可能乾旱的也可以說是乾旱這一年的必然了"},{"start":482.405,"end":498.497,"text":"所以我們對於水資源的調控上當然要特別注意民生自來用水當中水公司剛才我有注意聽到董事長的報告他說我們希望朝向降漏率漏水率能夠達到10%"},{"start":500.498,"end":515.138,"text":"好,如果這樣的話我再降兩趴我每年可以再省下每年喔再省下一個湖山水庫造價是兩百億五千萬噸的水量所以啊如果能夠再給他錢給他資源"},{"start":517.501,"end":543.441,"text":"我一年就省了200億欸要不然我們現在不可能再造水庫了浮流水沒有錯你們很 這個經濟部我要給他鼓勵多元水源的這個採取好 這個你們是有盡心盡力好 你說到浮流水水量多他就多水量少他就沒有好 所以像今年的浮流水是可以預測是可以是少的好 那這個經濟部呢你要重視這個管線漏水的問題"},{"start":544.642,"end":568.425,"text":"好那我這邊具體建議第一個比照台北自來水事業處研議每個月的用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費的急劇以彰顯用水正義第二個呢在維護民生物價的穩定之下經濟部應該積極主動的向行政院爭取給予台水補助以平衡虧損"},{"start":569.446,"end":572.469,"text":"要補助他多少?本期建議兩年,一年700億趕快把虧損平息掉,累計舉債1440億或者你不補助他,你不用行政的力量去補助他他只有一支的債累計虧損,每年還繼續虧40億"},{"start":590.427,"end":606.327,"text":"在開發財源節流當中我們是不利的連用水大戶你都不課了台北自來水公司都課你為什麼台水不課用水大戶1000度以上你為什麼要放任他然後再繼續的讓台水虧損"},{"start":608.274,"end":623.156,"text":"然後第三個由中央補助台水公司加速進行老舊管線汰換再降低百分之二的漏水率為目標你的前瞻計畫有沒有認為如果漏水率認為是你的經濟部目標你的前瞻計畫第5期你有沒有納入呢"},{"start":624.432,"end":625.533,"text":"本席認為耗水率是無效的。"},{"start":645.794,"end":655.007,"text":"所以你就直接就用水刀直接把它定級去比較快不要在那邊躲躲閃閃在想一些在想一些技巧結果你還是課不到或課的量少"},{"start":657.901,"end":661.485,"text":"是 是 謝謝委員 等一下等一下你們台水累計舉債的部分分兩年你要不要努力分兩年幫他的累計舉債1044億應該要給予補助啊 台電都可以做 中油可以做 為什麼台水不能做這個相關他是舉債不是虧損啦 所以他繼續讓他虧 他虧損是拿到董事長的口袋嗎 我只是跟委員講 還是說他是"},{"start":680.524,"end":692.272,"text":"真的實施到我們所有的公共建設不管你調度管線你像從台南到我們高雄現在你的徵維管線這也是他們自己去處理啊都是舉債啊舉債是在做公共建設欸所以你不覺得你應該積極的跟行政院爭取來評審這樣的一個累積虧損嗎會會我會來評審好謝謝這是大家的心聲一起加油謝謝"}]}}}}