{"id":150197,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150197","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30521f3adf9bf47615f86ede38528f72d0f5f8ba9b0039caa7a6913bf80977d0b5285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:33:26 - 09:46:33","影片長度":"00:13:07","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":787,"end_time":"2024-03-21T09:46:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T09:33:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":158,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時33分）謝謝主席。有請次長。"],["主席：次長。"],["林次長騰蛟：陳委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：次長，早安。第一題要趕快跟您請教，因為關係到即將退場的四所私立大學，包括明道大學、環球科技大學、大同技術學院跟東方設計大學，這些學校目前都有特教生，請問退場之後這些特教生何去何從？目前教育部的安排跟相關計畫是不是有跟學生討論過他們的需求？據我們所知，有非常多的學生需要特殊的人力協助、交通協助及生活協助。一般的學生在轉到新的學校之後，都會有適應的困難，退學率高達16%，更何況特教的學生。這個部分可不可以請次長回應一下，目前教育部的規劃為何？"],["林次長騰蛟：針對退場學校身心障礙學生的就學權益，我們會徵詢接收學生的分發學校，退場學校也會徵詢學生的分發意願，由本部辦理學生的分發說明會，現場也會設置諮詢的服務臺，由分發學校提供宣導DM，還有系科課程、學校簡介等相關資料，提供學生諮詢服務，充分提供相關資訊給學生選擇……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個聽起來跟我們之前……"],["林次長騰蛟：另外，我們會加強溝通的機制……"],["陳委員培瑜：次長，我跟你討論一下。剛剛你講的確實是現行法規都已經有的，可是每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新學校，是不是真的都可以對接到個別特殊學生的狀況？因為我們之前收到很多一般學生的陳情，他們到新的學校都已經不一定待得下去，更何況這些特殊學生。我們相信相關的法規跟辦法，教育部應該已經有所準備，可是我們也相信有非常多的個案在這個法規底下是被漏掉的，所以是不是可以直接拜託次長請你們的幕僚研究，剛剛提到那四所目前正在進行退場程序的學校，必須要積極協助特教生的安置跟分發，並且確保每一個個案在新的校園生活有協助人力，還有無障礙的校園環境？我們先針對個案的部分。","再來，有關這些學生到新的學校之後的就學跟適應情況，務必要拜託教育部持續追蹤，我們辦公室也會持續關心這些學生的狀況。","最後，教育部手上一定有一個清單，到底還有哪些學校即將步入所謂的退場，我覺得教育部要提早規劃，更完整的透過前面這些個案情況爬梳，對後續要退場學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早做出準備。如同剛剛次長說的，可能已經有相關辦法，但是一定有很多漏洞必須透過個案學生回報情況，才能把整個機制建立的更完整。這個部分我們辦公室會再持續跟教育部討論，好嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝次長。我們來看第二個問題，目前有經費補助法規問題的是關於矯正學校適應體育的部分，怎麼說呢？在特教法修完之後，明定學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具，還有適應體育服務。適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢？是從體育署的推展學校適應體育深耕計畫，這個部分次長清不清楚？"],["林次長騰蛟：體育署有推動各級學校的適應體育，也有請臺灣師大成立適應體育的中心……"],["陳委員培瑜：可是現在有一個困難來了，次長可能不知道目前體育署的補助原則說，教育部主管的各級學校才可以拿這個錢，偏偏臺灣有四所矯正學校隸屬於法務部，之前我就已經跟部長討論過，這四所矯正學校有很多所謂的隱性特教學生，他們在過往的求學經驗當中，不管是原生家庭或者他們的學校老師，可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上，導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後，相關的支持系統是不夠的，我們跟矯正學校第一線的校長及老師們討論過，他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的修法範圍？至於怎麼修，真的沒有很難，就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則，把法務部主管的四所矯正學校放進來，讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師可以提出需求，為孩子設計相關的適應體育服務。"],["林次長騰蛟：適應體育相關經費是補助各縣市政府的特教資源輔導中心……"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道。他們現在狀況確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請，可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票，因為他們不是教育部主管的學校。"],["林次長騰蛟：我們會研議把那四所矯正學校納進來，修改相關規定。"],["陳委員培瑜：我聽到研議覺得很棒，有沒有機會3個月內把這個法規訂出來、修改完成，至少在下個學期新開始的時候，這些矯正學校的孩子有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府，跟體育署申請適應體育？"],["林次長騰蛟：我們3個月內把相關法規研議、修正。"],["陳委員培瑜：你們要積極進行修正，不要只有研議，對不對？"],["林次長騰蛟：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育。"],["林次長騰蛟：矯正學校的學生也是我們的孩子。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝次長，這個事情非常重要。","接下來，有關特教助理員的薪資，很多委員都提了。我就幫忙計算，以現在教育部給的資料來看，目前全國特教學生助理人員有6,500人，他們申請的時數有607萬小時。如果按照你們給的這個數字計算，平均每個禮拜每一個特教助理員的服務時數必須要23.3小時。你們之前說有級距可以幫他往上加薪，在禮拜二的座談會，當時我們聽到級距上去可能是800個小時，會往上添加，對不對？"],["林次長騰蛟：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：不管往上添加的狀況是什麼，我們看到的困境是，一般在104上找手搖飲料店、早餐店的工作，薪水都高於特教助理員。我用這個很殘酷的現實為例，因為特教助理員所必須擔負的工作責任非常重大，在責任這麼重大的情況下，卻只有給出這樣的薪水，可不可以更合理的去調整？關於薪資的部分，我們等一下一起來討論。","這些特教助理員要正式上工之前必須接受培訓課程，我們來看一下總共有這些，以障別來看，例如情緒行為的部分只有3個小時，癲癇學生照護3個小時，認識自閉症學生的特質也只有3個小時。光是就障別來看，每一個障別的學生只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎？基本上，他們上完這些課之後進到現場服務，後續也沒有足夠的增能培訓計畫，讓這些特教助理員覺得有國家的支持，讓他的專業知識可以再成長，讓他不只是辛苦的累積工作時數，教育部是不是應該要慎重研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整？還有後續他們正式上工、就職之後的在職培訓，可不可以請次長回應一下？"],["林次長騰蛟：有關特教助理員相關的課程時數，因為特教助理員基本上是屬於襄助的角色，所以還是以學校的特教老師為主。至於他受的這些基本課程，我們可以再調整，同時他也可以不斷地再持續增能，我們也會提供實體及線上的課程給特教助理員。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們希望教育部可不可以進一步3個月內研議更完整的規劃？雖然您說的沒有錯，他是特教老師的助理員，但是我們不要忽略，助理員需要積極認識很多現場的突發狀況，包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子，他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突，光是看影片讓很多人都誤會，認為那個小孩就只是要打老師。可是我們真的認識特教特質的孩子，一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙，更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了。所以我必須要說，就算是一般的助理老師、一般的代課老師都不見得真的知道，更何況他覺得他只是去當助理員，這個培訓課程我真心覺得真的非常非常地不積極。再來最後一個提醒，這些特教助理員開始積極服務個案之前，我們是不是應該要積極提供個案的相關課程跟資訊，確保助理員具備足夠的知能協助個案，當然保護個案的個別隱匿資訊是重要的，可是助理員要進去服務這個個案之前，他難道沒有權利知道更多關於這個個案的資訊，還有關於這個資訊背後他所需要累積的相關知識，這個部分也請教育部研議到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作，協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候，他們是很清楚知道自己面對的是什麼樣的個案，然後他們需要什麼樣的知識，可以嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，謝謝委員這個很好的建議……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分我們會再拜託教育部，希望3個月內可以研議。好，最後一個，普特融合的困境，我想次長你一定知道很多了，我們來看一下，修正完之後其實我們發現最大的困境是來自普師跟普生，怎麼說？以我自己在修習教育學程的過程當中，過往我是在大學裡面修，其實我在修課的時候，學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育，也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中只是選修，假設跟我差不多年紀，四十幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師，他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教知能，更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中，次長你擔不擔心這些普生、普師，尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生，而且特生的情況又這麼地特殊跟不同，障別又這麼多，還有非常多隱性的特教沒有被看見，老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，謝謝，我想在師資養成過程當中大概只有3個學分的特教課程，我想這個部分的話，未來如果老師進到職場之後，怎麼樣的普特融合以及針對特殊教育的部分再去做一個增能，那我想……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分我自己有建議，我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃，我們當然也很難強制師培課程要立刻改變，我們在想說可不可以由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫，而不是只是讓老師隨性地選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程，假設過往老師沒有修習過相關特教學分，那他現在依然在學校任教，教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定，他們必須要每年多少時數，然後其中在哪些課程，這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師研議、跟地方教育局討論，但是我必須要說要更加地積極。再來，研擬特殊教育教學指引，讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式，我們聽到非常多的特師，他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情，不是我們的事情，我們只是讓小孩放在班上，這就是回到我剛剛說的，普師對特生沒有認知，所以他對特師的工作、彼此的合作完全沒有概念，所以我們認為如果教育部沒有一套完整的教育教學指引，其實很難讓普師跟特師在教育現場的合作是足夠積極可以撐起整個網，支持我們的特教小孩，所以這個部分是不是可以請教育部積極地研議？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，謝謝委員這兩個建議，我想一方面國教署這邊大概也有針對教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學，以及相關的個別化教學部分的增能大概都有，剛剛委員建議是不是能夠有更系統化的增能計畫，我想這個部分我們會來……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以我們今天大概有4件事情，我們會往下繼續追蹤，也拜託教育部積極地研議。最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事，我認識一個很大的企業家，他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域，他去設計了他整個工作作業流程，等到他整個設計完之後，現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業的董事長說，因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化，讓不是特生、不是身心障礙的人在現場工作也感覺到舒適而且更加有人性。我要再一次強調，普特融合不是我們覺得我們要去適應特生，而是整體的環境變得更加友善、更加有設計，其實每一個人都會在那個場域，不管是學習或是工作都會更加地順心跟上手，不知道次長您認不認同這個概念？"],["林次長騰蛟：是的，基本上認同剛剛委員的這個建議，我們朝這個方向來研議。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以這些後續我們會再持續追蹤，謝謝主席，謝謝，謝謝次長。"],["林次長騰蛟：謝謝陳委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝兩位。接下來我們請登記第4號葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":454,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","范雲","吳春城","王鴻薇","陳秀寳","林倩綺","黃珊珊","羅智強","何欣純","黃捷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150197","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150197","tool":"pyannote","id":"150197-pyannote"},"job_id":"XTaehadSBx7XTq0a","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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00:01:30,327\n接收學生的分花學校．退場學校也會徵詢學生的分花意願．由本部辦理學生的分花說明會．現場也會設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．細科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生來諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊．\n\n5\n00:01:31,708 --> 00:01:35,792\n陳培瑜聽起來跟我們之前陳一個很遲早跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到\n\n6\n00:01:49,324 --> 00:02:11,855\n因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託市長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的剛剛4所學校\n\n7\n00:02:12,395 --> 00:02:29,526\n必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我説的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況\n\n8\n00:02:30,306 --> 00:02:54,115\n務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法\n\n9\n00:02:56,496 --> 00:02:56,896\n特教法修完之後明定\n\n10\n00:03:17,549 --> 00:03:33,786\n學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分市長您清不清楚我們體育署這邊有推動各級學校的那個適應體育請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心\n\n11\n00:03:37,790 --> 00:04:06,442\n可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上\n\n12\n00:04:07,652 --> 00:04:24,505\n導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來\n\n13\n00:04:30,309 --> 00:04:55,605\n那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在的狀況．確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校\n\n14\n00:04:56,817 --> 00:05:02,002\n我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育\n\n15\n00:05:16,295 --> 00:05:42,973\n是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來,特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人\n\n16\n00:05:44,574 --> 00:06:04,082\n他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對\n\n17\n00:06:05,362 --> 00:06:29,114\n不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼．看到這個困境．我們來看一般的104商．你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店．這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實．因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作．責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下．卻只有給出這樣的薪水．我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔\n\n18\n00:06:30,415 --> 00:06:46,213\n這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以帳別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時\n\n19\n00:06:47,054 --> 00:07:16,080\n認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整\n\n20\n00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:42,679\n還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．委員包含有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．\n\n21\n00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:44,840\n陳培瑜議員\n\n22\n00:07:59,574 --> 00:08:26,264\n可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了\n\n23\n00:08:27,665 --> 00:08:27,765\n陳培瑜\n\n24\n00:08:48,044 --> 00:08:54,149\n請教育部研議．到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作．協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候．他們是很清楚知道．自己面對是什麼樣的個案．然後他們需要什麼樣的知識．可以嗎?\n\n25\n00:09:16,209 --> 00:09:17,530\n修正後發現最大的困境是來自普施與普生\n\n26\n00:09:37,102 --> 00:10:05,718\n其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中他只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生\n\n27\n00:10:06,078 --> 00:10:15,123\n而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持?\n\n28\n00:10:17,411 --> 00:10:26,599\n在施養成過程當中,大概有三個學分的特教的課程。未來如果老師進到職場之後,怎麼樣普特融合以及針對特殊教育的做一個增額。\n\n29\n00:10:37,568 --> 00:11:04,880\n這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃那我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程假設過往老師沒有休息過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程\n\n30\n00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:33,400\n這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹．跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極再來嚴寧特殊教育教學指引讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念所以\n\n31\n00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:34,921\n謝謝委員這兩個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對\n\n32\n00:11:54,460 --> 00:12:00,084\n教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的徵能．\n\n33\n00:12:11,432 --> 00:12:35,327\n我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化\n\n34\n00:12:36,007 --> 00:12:36,227\n謝謝主席、謝謝市長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4693\t4953\t請問退場之後﹖\n29594\t29634\t陳培瑜議員\n47549\t47569\t委員會徵詢\n70655\t90327\t接收學生的分花學校．退場學校也會徵詢學生的分花意願．由本部辦理學生的分花說明會．現場也會設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．細科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生來諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊．\n91708\t95792\t陳培瑜 聽起來跟我們之前陳一個很遲早跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到\n109324\t131855\t因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託市長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的剛剛4所學校\n132395\t149526\t必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我説的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況\n150306\t174115\t務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法\n176496\t176896\t特教法修完之後明定\n197549\t213786\t學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分市長您清不清楚我們體育署這邊有推動各級學校的那個適應體育請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心\n217790\t246442\t可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上\n247652\t264505\t導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來\n270309\t295605\t那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在的狀況．確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校\n296817\t302002\t我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育\n316295\t342973\t是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來,特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人\n344574\t364082\t他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對\n365362\t389114\t不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼．看到這個困境．我們來看一般的104商．你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店．這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實．因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作．責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下．卻只有給出這樣的薪水．我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔\n390415\t406213\t這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以帳別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時\n407054\t436080\t認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整\n436980\t462679\t還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．委員包含有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．\n464440\t464840\t陳培瑜議員\n479574\t506264\t可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了\n507665\t507765\t陳培瑜\n528044\t534149\t請教育部研議．到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作．協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候．他們是很清楚知道．自己面對是什麼樣的個案．然後他們需要什麼樣的知識．可以嗎?\n556209\t557530\t修正後發現最大的困境是來自普施與普生\n577102\t605718\t其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中他只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生\n606078\t615123\t而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持?\n617411\t626599\t在施養成過程當中,大概有三個學分的特教的課程。未來如果老師進到職場之後,怎麼樣普特融合以及針對特殊教育的做一個增額。\n637568\t664880\t這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃那我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程假設過往老師沒有休息過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程\n665880\t693400\t這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹．跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極再來嚴寧特殊教育教學指引讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念所以\n693660\t694921\t謝謝委員這兩個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對\n714460\t720084\t教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的徵能．\n731432\t755327\t我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化\n756007\t756227\t謝謝主席、謝謝市長\n","txt":"請問退場之後﹖\n陳培瑜議員\n委員會徵詢\n接收學生的分花學校．退場學校也會徵詢學生的分花意願．由本部辦理學生的分花說明會．現場也會設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．細科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生來諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊．\n陳培瑜 聽起來跟我們之前陳一個很遲早跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到\n因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託市長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的剛剛4所學校\n必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我説的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況\n務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法\n特教法修完之後明定\n學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分市長您清不清楚我們體育署這邊有推動各級學校的那個適應體育請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心\n可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上\n導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來\n那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在的狀況．確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校\n我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育\n是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來,特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人\n他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對\n不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼．看到這個困境．我們來看一般的104商．你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店．這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實．因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作．責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下．卻只有給出這樣的薪水．我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔\n這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以帳別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時\n認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整\n還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．委員包含有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．\n陳培瑜議員\n可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了\n陳培瑜\n請教育部研議．到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作．協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候．他們是很清楚知道．自己面對是什麼樣的個案．然後他們需要什麼樣的知識．可以嗎?\n修正後發現最大的困境是來自普施與普生\n其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中他只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生\n而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持?\n在施養成過程當中,大概有三個學分的特教的課程。未來如果老師進到職場之後,怎麼樣普特融合以及針對特殊教育的做一個增額。\n這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃那我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程假設過往老師沒有休息過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程\n這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹．跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極再來嚴寧特殊教育教學指引讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念所以\n謝謝委員這兩個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對\n教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的徵能．\n我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化\n謝謝主席、謝謝市長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.693 --> 00:04.953\n請問退場之後﹖\n\n00:29.594 --> 00:29.634\n陳培瑜議員\n\n00:47.549 --> 00:47.569\n委員會徵詢\n\n01:10.655 --> 01:30.327\n接收學生的分花學校．退場學校也會徵詢學生的分花意願．由本部辦理學生的分花說明會．現場也會設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．細科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生來諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊．\n\n01:31.708 --> 01:35.792\n陳培瑜聽起來跟我們之前陳一個很遲早跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到\n\n01:49.324 --> 02:11.855\n因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託市長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的剛剛4所學校\n\n02:12.395 --> 02:29.526\n必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我説的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況\n\n02:30.306 --> 02:54.115\n務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法\n\n02:56.496 --> 02:56.896\n特教法修完之後明定\n\n03:17.549 --> 03:33.786\n學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分市長您清不清楚我們體育署這邊有推動各級學校的那個適應體育請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心\n\n03:37.790 --> 04:06.442\n可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上\n\n04:07.652 --> 04:24.505\n導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來\n\n04:30.309 --> 04:55.605\n那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在的狀況．確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校\n\n04:56.817 --> 05:02.002\n我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育\n\n05:16.295 --> 05:42.973\n是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來,特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人\n\n05:44.574 --> 06:04.082\n他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對\n\n06:05.362 --> 06:29.114\n不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼．看到這個困境．我們來看一般的104商．你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店．這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實．因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作．責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下．卻只有給出這樣的薪水．我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔\n\n06:30.415 --> 06:46.213\n這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以帳別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時\n\n06:47.054 --> 07:16.080\n認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整\n\n07:16.980 --> 07:42.679\n還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．委員包含有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．\n\n07:44.440 --> 07:44.840\n陳培瑜議員\n\n07:59.574 --> 08:26.264\n可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了\n\n08:27.665 --> 08:27.765\n陳培瑜\n\n08:48.044 --> 08:54.149\n請教育部研議．到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作．協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候．他們是很清楚知道．自己面對是什麼樣的個案．然後他們需要什麼樣的知識．可以嗎?\n\n09:16.209 --> 09:17.530\n修正後發現最大的困境是來自普施與普生\n\n09:37.102 --> 10:05.718\n其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中他只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生\n\n10:06.078 --> 10:15.123\n而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持?\n\n10:17.411 --> 10:26.599\n在施養成過程當中,大概有三個學分的特教的課程。未來如果老師進到職場之後,怎麼樣普特融合以及針對特殊教育的做一個增額。\n\n10:37.568 --> 11:04.880\n這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃那我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程假設過往老師沒有休息過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程\n\n11:05.880 --> 11:33.400\n這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹．跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極再來嚴寧特殊教育教學指引讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念所以\n\n11:33.660 --> 11:34.921\n謝謝委員這兩個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對\n\n11:54.460 --> 12:00.084\n教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的徵能．\n\n12:11.432 --> 12:35.327\n我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化\n\n12:36.007 --> 12:36.227\n謝謝主席、謝謝市長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.693,"end":4.953,"text":"請問退場之後﹖"},{"start":29.594,"end":29.634,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":47.549,"end":47.569,"text":"委員會徵詢"},{"start":70.655,"end":90.327,"text":"接收學生的分花學校．退場學校也會徵詢學生的分花意願．由本部辦理學生的分花說明會．現場也會設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．細科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生來諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊．"},{"start":91.708,"end":95.792,"text":"陳培瑜 聽起來跟我們之前陳一個很遲早跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到"},{"start":109.324,"end":131.855,"text":"因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託市長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的剛剛4所學校"},{"start":132.395,"end":149.526,"text":"必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我説的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況"},{"start":150.306,"end":174.115,"text":"務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法"},{"start":176.496,"end":176.896,"text":"特教法修完之後明定"},{"start":197.549,"end":213.786,"text":"學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分市長您清不清楚我們體育署這邊有推動各級學校的那個適應體育請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心"},{"start":217.79,"end":246.442,"text":"可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上"},{"start":247.652,"end":264.505,"text":"導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來"},{"start":270.309,"end":295.605,"text":"那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在的狀況．確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校"},{"start":296.817,"end":302.002,"text":"我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育"},{"start":316.295,"end":342.973,"text":"是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來,特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人"},{"start":344.574,"end":364.082,"text":"他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對"},{"start":365.362,"end":389.114,"text":"不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼．看到這個困境．我們來看一般的104商．你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店．這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實．因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作．責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下．卻只有給出這樣的薪水．我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔"},{"start":390.415,"end":406.213,"text":"這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以帳別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時"},{"start":407.054,"end":436.08,"text":"認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整"},{"start":436.98,"end":462.679,"text":"還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．委員包含有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．"},{"start":464.44,"end":464.84,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":479.574,"end":506.264,"text":"可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了"},{"start":507.665,"end":507.765,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":528.044,"end":534.149,"text":"請教育部研議．到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作．協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候．他們是很清楚知道．自己面對是什麼樣的個案．然後他們需要什麼樣的知識．可以嗎?"},{"start":556.209,"end":557.53,"text":"修正後發現最大的困境是來自普施與普生"},{"start":577.102,"end":605.718,"text":"其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中他只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為納入日常校園當中次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生"},{"start":606.078,"end":615.123,"text":"而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持?"},{"start":617.411,"end":626.599,"text":"在施養成過程當中,大概有三個學分的特教的課程。未來如果老師進到職場之後,怎麼樣普特融合以及針對特殊教育的做一個增額。"},{"start":637.568,"end":664.88,"text":"這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃那我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程假設過往老師沒有休息過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程"},{"start":665.88,"end":693.4,"text":"這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹．跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極再來嚴寧特殊教育教學指引讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念所以"},{"start":693.66,"end":694.921,"text":"謝謝委員這兩個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對"},{"start":714.46,"end":720.084,"text":"教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的徵能．"},{"start":731.432,"end":755.327,"text":"我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化"},{"start":756.007,"end":756.227,"text":"謝謝主席、謝謝市長"}]}}}}