{"id":150200,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150200","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30525f7da4a277bd9beb469dd78c507e1b3ff8ba9b0039caa7a639431ddb69bbbff55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"09:43:23 - 09:53:42","影片長度":"00:10:19","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":619,"end_time":"2024-03-21T09:53:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T09:43:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":278,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時43分）謝謝召委，請薛部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長你好。我有看到你們報告，針對開發的環境評估跟保護，環境部也都是非常重視，雖然開發很重要，但是針對撤廠的問題，我覺得我們也要重視。所以撤廠部分，像有些工廠撤廠有沒有造成土地污染，是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題？"],["薛部長富盛：涂委員講的是光電場域假如……"],["涂委員權吉：對，沒關係，我的意思是說開發很重要……"],["薛部長富盛：開發所以……"],["涂委員權吉：只是說希望環境部也要重視一下，像有些廠撤廠的問題。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["涂委員權吉：尤其現在因為中美貿易戰、製造供應鏈重組，還有臺商回流，這五年內工業地大概翻了一倍，當然這是好事，但是土地有人買就一定有人賣，工業地最近成交量高達6,000億，請問一下部長知不知道全臺灣最高成交量，六都是哪裡嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：桃園應該是非常熱門的地方。"],["涂委員權吉：對，所以環境部薛部長對這個有研究，而且桃園目前有36處產業園區，登記的工廠也高達一萬二千多間，請問一下最近像桃園觀音有一個廠──美商科慕關廠，不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科慕公司？"],["薛部長富盛：我對這家公司瞭解的不多。"],["涂委員權吉：因為它8月無預警關廠，也有很多勞資糾紛跟工安意外，其中跟環境部最有關係的就是之前科慕公司無預警關廠之後，它的鹽酸管破裂造成觀音大堀溪毒死上萬條魚，當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要，撤廠的部分也希望環境部能夠注意。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["涂委員權吉：像這個廠無預警撤廠，它已經沒有營業許可了，可是為什麼沒有營業許可之後，也沒有好好去管理、管制，讓鹽酸任意地洩漏，排到大堀溪，而且最後還是民眾檢舉之後，才發現這件事情，不知道環境部對這個有什麼看法？"],["薛部長富盛：給涂委員報告，基本上因為這家，根據剛剛委員的訊息顯示，事實上它裡面有牽涉操作、運作一些有害物質，那它們公司可能就是因為撤廠了，還是必須把它那些有毒性或者說危害環境的……這些要去做處理，只是它處理過程當中，應該是便宜行事，就直接透過暗管或其他方式排到溪流裡面去。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我今天提出的重點問題，就是希望環境部這一部分要重視一下。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["涂委員權吉：我不知道這個地方到底……先不管這個權責是中央還是地方，在關廠前是不是應該先做好污染評估跟資料審查？"],["薛部長富盛：當然假如我們從這家公司來看，我個人認為其目的事業主管機關應該是縣市政府，但是中央也是責無旁貸，因為我們本來跟縣市環保局之間的互動就相當密切。"],["涂委員權吉：對，看起來直接是地方的問題。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["涂委員權吉：因為這個牽扯到工廠歇業的問題，根據土壤及地下水污染整治法第九條，如果工廠要歇業，應該要先做好土壤污染調查，然後才能進行審查，才來申請歇業，是不是應該是這樣？"],["薛部長富盛：是的，涂委員講的是。"],["涂委員權吉：再針對工廠歇業申請書的內容，根據土污法第九條規定，當然第一個選項的部分就是如果非環保署依第九條管制的事業，免檢具資料審查；第二個選項就是如果在第九條規範之中，就要提供評估調查及資料審查，這兩項是沒有問題。可是不知道為什麼要增列第三個選項？就是「本公司（廠）屬環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第九條指定公告之事業，如未依該法第九條規定，先檢具用地之土壤污染評估調查及檢測資料報請環保局審查時，將被環保局處以新臺幣15萬元以上75萬元以下罰鍰，本公司（廠）已充分瞭解附記所載事項，仍請貴府先准予辦理工廠歇業。」為什麼要開這一條路，不用提供報告就可以讓它先歇業，而讓它造成問題後再來調查怎麼沒有去做檢測，還有評估報告？為什麼要開這個第三個選項，不用提供就讓它先歇業，然後造成美商科慕有這樣的問題產生？"],["薛部長富盛：我請我們環保署顏署長回答一下。"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，委員關心的科慕事件，它在農地確實當時是有鹽酸的污染，並且有一些廢棄物的問題，這部分地方政府已經開罰，而且它有刑事責任，已經移送檢調單位去做調查，這部分也要求它清理3,000噸的污染物。那委員所關心的，其實關廠是這樣，我們所管制的事業在關廠之前就必須提具相關報告，先做審查，沒有問題後才能關廠。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！為什麼要增列第三項說不用提？然後如果沒有提，抓到以後再來罰錢，你應該是讓它先提供資料，資料提供以後確定沒問題，再讓它歇業，為什麼開一條路說它先歇業，如果查到沒有做這些調查，或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰它？為什麼要開這個後門呢？"],["顏署長旭明：這個不是後門，這個是說在環保機關的立場，它一定要提，但是如果程序上它有瑕疵，被我們發現到它沒有提的話，就有這個罰鍰，而且……"],["涂委員權吉：我倒覺得是不是應該它把這些資料準備好以後，確定沒問題，才讓它去辦理歇業。"],["顏署長旭明：確實。"],["涂委員權吉：為什麼先辦歇業，後面有問題再來罰？像這個美商科慕，它傷害已經造成了，造成土壤污染、水源污染，你們才發現原來它沒做，再去罰錢，這樣亡羊補牢實在沒有意義。而且我跟部長報告，這個美商科慕裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物，這是一級危險物品，整個觀音鄉親的生命還有整個工業區到時候都一起陪葬耶！"],["薛部長富盛：跟涂委員報告，我的看法是這樣，前兩條基本上我們是相信書面報告，就是這家公司寫的報告我們相信它，但是第三條事實上是留有……"],["涂委員權吉：對，我的意思是說你們第一條、第二條已經很完善了，為什麼要訂定第三條？給你先辦、給你先歇業，到時候有問題再罰錢。也就是說它都先停止營業，萬一發生問題再來處理，我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊，確定沒問題再讓它辦理歇業？而且我們一定要記得RCA事件，當初也是這樣，因為美商科慕公司也是美商，萬一它到時候走掉，是不是我們還要再打跨國訴訟？這個到時候勞民傷財……"],["薛部長富盛：沒錯。"],["涂委員權吉：而且對人民造成傷害，這是沒有辦法用金錢彌補的。所以我覺得針對第三項的部分，當然這個可能是經濟部的部分，但因為這個有影響到環境污染的問題，我覺得環境部針對工廠歇業申請書的部分應該要重視，是不是考慮把第三項刪除？如果要辦理歇業等等，應該把這些資料檢具，確定沒問題再辦理歇業。"],["薛部長富盛：OK。"],["涂委員權吉：你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題，你讓它歇業，整個工廠裡面沒有人管理，結果造成鹽酸管破裂，造成土壤污染、水源污染，這個已經沒有辦法挽回了。所以我希望針對這個部分，桃園現在有1萬2,000間廠房，空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群，所以希望環境部跨部會成立專案小組，針對美商科慕公司後續還有多少污染的問題，請環境部來重視。還有第三項的部分，請環境部研擬是不是在資料檢具以後再讓他們歇業，不要讓問題造成後再來處理相關處罰問題，我覺得這都為時已晚。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝涂委員的建議。"],["涂委員權吉：請部長這邊再多幫忙。"],["薛部長富盛：對，我們來努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員的質詢。","接下來我們請邱鎮軍委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":404,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王正旭","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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22:56:18","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 22:57:39","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150200 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:57:39","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：涂權吉'"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:58:02","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:58:02","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 8.89, \"end\": 16.724, \"text\": \"好,謝謝趙偉請我們的薛部長好,有請部長好,同仁好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 8.89, \"end\": 10.012, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 10.012, \"end\": 10.372, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 10.372, \"end\": 10.733, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"薛\", 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\"透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 211.195, \"end\": 211.616, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 211.616, \"end\": 211.856, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 211.856, \"end\": 212.016, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 212.016, \"end\": 212.196, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 212.196, \"end\": 212.316, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 212.316, \"end\": 212.496, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 212.496, \"end\": 212.677, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 212.677, \"end\": 212.877, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 212.877, \"end\": 213.097, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 213.097, \"end\": 213.497, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 213.497, \"end\": 213.617, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"以\", 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0.885}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 217.981, \"end\": 218.121, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 218.121, \"end\": 218.322, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 218.322, \"end\": 218.562, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 218.562, \"end\": 218.762, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 218.762, \"end\": 219.543, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 219.543, \"end\": 219.703, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 219.703, \"end\": 219.983, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 219.983, \"end\": 220.444, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 220.444, \"end\": 220.584, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 220.584, \"end\": 221.364, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 221.364, \"end\": 221.525, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 221.525, \"end\": 221.625, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"知\", 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\"該\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 229.592, \"end\": 229.812, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 229.812, \"end\": 230.433, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 230.433, \"end\": 230.733, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 230.733, \"end\": 231.374, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 231.374, \"end\": 231.554, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"染\", \"start\": 231.554, \"end\": 231.794, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 231.794, \"end\": 232.274, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 232.274, \"end\": 232.475, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 232.475, \"end\": 232.955, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 232.955, \"end\": 233.135, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 233.135, \"end\": 233.556, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 233.556, \"end\": 233.576, \"score\": 0.94}]}, {\"start\": 235.066, \"end\": 260.384, \"text\": \"當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 235.066, \"end\": 235.306, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 235.306, \"end\": 235.546, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 235.546, \"end\": 235.827, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 235.827, \"end\": 236.727, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 236.727, \"end\": 236.927, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 236.927, \"end\": 237.108, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 237.108, \"end\": 237.348, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 237.348, \"end\": 237.528, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 237.528, \"end\": 237.828, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", 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\"工\", \"start\": 254.94, \"end\": 255.461, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"歇\", \"start\": 255.461, \"end\": 255.921, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 255.921, \"end\": 257.002, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 257.002, \"end\": 257.402, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 257.402, \"end\": 258.263, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 258.263, \"end\": 258.503, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"壤\", \"start\": 258.503, \"end\": 258.723, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 258.723, \"end\": 258.883, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 258.883, \"end\": 259.043, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 259.043, \"end\": 259.284, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 259.284, \"end\": 259.504, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 259.504, \"end\": 259.644, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"染\", \"start\": 259.644, \"end\": 259.884, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 259.884, \"end\": 260.124, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 260.124, \"end\": 260.364, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 260.364, \"end\": 260.384, \"score\": 0.039}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}]}, {\"start\": 261.786, \"end\": 275.821, \"text\": \"就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的 土壤講的是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 261.786, \"end\": 261.926, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 261.926, \"end\": 262.266, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 262.266, \"end\": 262.426, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 262.426, \"end\": 262.887, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 262.887, \"end\": 263.247, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 263.247, \"end\": 263.467, \"score\": 0.931}, 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00:00:45,500\n部長你好是那我有看到你們的報告針對開發我們的環境評估跟保護我們環境部也都是非常重視那當然因為開發很重要那我們因為想針對測場部分的問題我覺得我們也要重視所以測場部分以後像有些工廠測場部分像有沒有造成土地的污染我們是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題\n\n3\n00:00:47,591 --> 00:01:09,342\n突然講的是光電場域對沒關係我的意思是說開發很重要啦只是說希望環境部也要重視一下像有些廠撤廠的問題尤其我們現在因為我們中美貿易戰還有我們製造供應鏈的重組還有台商的回流這5年內我們工業地大概\n\n4\n00:01:10,262 --> 00:01:28,509\n大概翻了一倍也就是說當然這是好事啦那但是土地喔有人買就一定有人賣那工業地成交量喔那最近也是成交量高達了6千億那請問一下部長知不知道這全台灣最高成交量六都是哪裡嗎\n\n5\n00:01:30,179 --> 00:01:55,928\n桃園應該是...對所以環境部部長我們薛部長對這是有研究那而且我們桃園目前有36處的產業園區那登記的工廠也高達一萬兩千多間那請問一下那個最近有一些像桃園我們觀音有一個廠像美商科目官廠這個不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科目公司\n\n6\n00:01:58,166 --> 00:02:21,545\n對這家公司我瞭解的不多對因為他之前也因為他8月吳裕景官場也有很多的勞資的糾紛跟公安的意外跟我們環境部最有關係的就是他之前科目公司吳裕景官場之後他的研酸管破裂造成我們觀音\n\n7\n00:02:22,265 --> 00:02:34,411\n大窟西毒死上萬條的魚那當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要這測場的部分我們也希望我們環境部能夠來注意那像這個場他\n\n8\n00:02:37,185 --> 00:03:01,253\n無預警撤場他已經沒有營業許可了那可是為什麼我們沒有營業許可之後也沒有好好去管理管制讓這個鹽酸或任意的洩漏排到我們大窟西而且最後還是民眾去卷舉之後我們才發現這件事情不知道環境部對這有什麼看法\n\n9\n00:03:01,893 --> 00:03:29,934\n給圖文報告基本上因為這一家根據剛剛文的訊息顯示事實上它裡面有牽涉操作運作一些這個有害物質那他們公司可能就是因為他撤廠了他還是必須把他那些有毒性或者說危害環境的這些要去做處理只是他處理過程當中應該是便宜行事就直接\n\n10\n00:03:31,195 --> 00:03:53,576\n透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查\n\n11\n00:03:55,066 --> 00:04:20,384\n當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條\n\n12\n00:04:21,786 --> 00:04:35,821\n就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的土壤講的是\n\n13\n00:04:38,206 --> 00:04:52,993\n那我在針對我們有一個工廠歇業的申請書根據我們土木法第9條當然第一條的部分就是說他如果非環保署第9條管制的我們就免免檢據這個\n\n14\n00:04:55,354 --> 00:05:09,648\n資料的審查那第二條就是說如果在第九條規範之中他就要提供這個評估的調查機資料的審查這兩項是沒有問題可是我們不知道為什麼要甄列第三項\n\n15\n00:05:10,669 --> 00:05:36,961\n就是本公司場所環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第9條指定公告之事頁如未依該定第9條的規定先檢據用地土壤評估調查及檢據資料報請環保局審查將被環保局處以新台幣15萬元以及75萬元以下的法源就是說他們已經充分了解然後請他們\n\n16\n00:05:38,001 --> 00:06:00,809\n來辦理歇業為什麼要開這一條路就是說他不用提供這個報告就可以讓他先歇業而讓他造成問題我們再來調查說他怎麼沒有去做這個做這個檢測還有這個評估報告為什麼要開這個第三條就是說不用提供就給他先歇業然後造成我們美商科目有這樣子的問題的產生\n\n17\n00:06:02,475 --> 00:06:27,686\n我請我們環保署嚴署長回答一下好不好是包括委員關心的科目的這一個他在農地確實當時是有那個硫酸的污染並且有一些廢棄物的問題那這部分地方政府已經給他做開罰而且他患有這一個刑事的責任已經移送檢調單位去做調查\n\n18\n00:06:28,746 --> 00:06:50,414\n那這部分也要求他在這個清理三千噸的一些一些污染物那委員所關心到的其實我們的官場是這樣子我們所管制的事業他在官場之前就必須提具相關的報告先做審查沒有問題之後對啊那為什麼\n\n19\n00:06:51,734 --> 00:07:07,326\n為什麼要針對第三條說不用提然後如果沒有提抓到以後再來罰錢你應該是讓他先提供資料資料提供以後確定沒問題再讓他歇業啊為什麼開一條路說你先歇業如果查到你沒有做這些調查或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰你為什麼要開這個後門呢\n\n20\n00:07:10,590 --> 00:07:25,138\n這個不是後門這個是說在環保機關的立場你一定要提但是如果說程序上他有瑕疵被我們發現到他沒有提的話就有這個滑管我倒覺得是不是應該他把這些資料\n\n21\n00:07:25,698 --> 00:07:25,718\n朗誠議員\n\n22\n00:07:47,148 --> 00:08:06,705\n我們這個美商科目我跟那個部長報告它裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物這是一級危險物品這個整個觀音鄉親的生命還有我們整個工業區到時候都一起賠賬給涂權報告我覺得我的看法是這樣子前兩條基本上我們是相信\n\n23\n00:08:07,766 --> 00:08:26,347\n書面報告就是說這個這家公司他寫的這個報告我們相信他對我的意思是說事實上是留有角數你一二條已經很完善了為什麼要訂定一個第三條給你先辦給你先歇業到時候有問題我再來罰你錢那也就是說他都先停止營業了\n\n24\n00:08:27,248 --> 00:08:52,876\n然後萬一發生問題我再來處理我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊確定沒問題再讓他辦理歇業而且我們一定要記得這RCA這個事件當初也是這樣因為美商科木公司他也是美商的到時候萬一他走掉以後是不是我們要再打這個跨國輸送這個到時候所勞民傷財而且對人民造成的傷害這是沒有辦法去用金錢來彌補的\n\n25\n00:08:54,176 --> 00:08:57,360\n所以我覺得針對這個第三條的部分當然這個可能是經濟部的部分但是我覺得這因為有影響到我們環境污染的問題我覺得我們環境部針對這部分針對我們工廠歇業申請書的部分我覺得我們應該要重視\n\n26\n00:09:13,079 --> 00:09:37,278\n應該是不是考慮一下把第三條刪除如果要辦理歇業等等應該把這些資料檢據確定沒問題再辦理歇業你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題你讓他歇業整個工廠裡面沒有人管理只有造成這鹽酸管破裂造成土壤污染水源污染這個已經是沒有辦法挽回了所以我希望針對這部分\n\n27\n00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:59,774\n我們避免將來我們桃園現在有一萬兩千間廠房這空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群所以希望我們環境部或跨部會成立專案小組而且針對美商科目公司這後續還有沒有多少污染的問題請環境部來重視還有這第三條的部分請我們環境部來研擬一下是不是把資料檢據以後再讓他們來歇業不要\n\n28\n00:10:08,121 --> 00:10:16,898\n讓這個問題造成以後再來處理這個處罰的問題我接著都為時已晚好謝謝涂權吉那請部長這邊再多幫忙我們來努力好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8890\t16724\t好,謝謝趙偉請我們的薛部長好,有請部長好,同仁好\n18147\t45500\t部長你好是那我有看到你們的報告針對開發我們的環境評估跟保護我們環境部也都是非常重視那當然因為開發很重要那我們因為想針對測場部分的問題我覺得我們也要重視所以測場部分以後像有些工廠測場部分像有沒有造成土地的污染我們是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題\n47591\t69342\t突然講的是光電場域對沒關係我的意思是說開發很重要啦只是說希望環境部也要重視一下像有些廠撤廠的問題尤其我們現在因為我們中美貿易戰還有我們製造供應鏈的重組還有台商的回流這5年內我們工業地大概\n70262\t88509\t大概翻了一倍也就是說當然這是好事啦那但是土地喔有人買就一定有人賣那工業地成交量喔那最近也是成交量高達了6千億那請問一下部長知不知道這全台灣最高成交量六都是哪裡嗎\n90179\t115928\t桃園應該是...對 所以環境部部長我們薛部長對這是有研究那而且我們桃園目前有36處的產業園區那登記的工廠也高達一萬兩千多間那請問一下那個最近有一些像桃園我們觀音有一個廠像美商科目官廠這個不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科目公司\n118166\t141545\t對這家公司我瞭解的不多對因為他之前也因為他8月吳裕景官場也有很多的勞資的糾紛跟公安的意外跟我們環境部最有關係的就是他之前科目公司吳裕景官場之後他的研酸管破裂造成我們觀音\n142265\t154411\t大窟西毒死上萬條的魚那當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要這測場的部分我們也希望我們環境部能夠來注意那像這個場他\n157185\t181253\t無預警撤場他已經沒有營業許可了那可是為什麼我們沒有營業許可之後也沒有好好去管理管制讓這個鹽酸或任意的洩漏排到我們大窟西而且最後還是民眾去卷舉之後我們才發現這件事情不知道環境部對這有什麼看法\n181893\t209934\t給圖文報告基本上因為這一家根據剛剛文的訊息顯示事實上它裡面有牽涉操作運作一些這個有害物質那他們公司可能就是因為他撤廠了他還是必須把他那些有毒性或者說危害環境的這些要去做處理只是他處理過程當中應該是便宜行事就直接\n211195\t233576\t透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查\n235066\t260384\t當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條\n261786\t275821\t就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的 土壤講的是\n278206\t292993\t那我在針對我們有一個工廠歇業的申請書根據我們土木法第9條當然第一條的部分就是說他如果非環保署第9條管制的我們就免免檢據這個\n295354\t309648\t資料的審查那第二條就是說如果在第九條規範之中他就要提供這個評估的調查機資料的審查這兩項是沒有問題可是我們不知道為什麼要甄列第三項\n310669\t336961\t就是本公司場所環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第9條指定公告之事頁如未依該定第9條的規定先檢據用地土壤評估調查及檢據資料報請環保局審查將被環保局處以新台幣15萬元以及75萬元以下的法源就是說他們已經充分了解然後請他們\n338001\t360809\t來辦理歇業為什麼要開這一條路就是說他不用提供這個報告就可以讓他先歇業而讓他造成問題我們再來調查說他怎麼沒有去做這個做這個檢測還有這個評估報告為什麼要開這個第三條就是說不用提供就給他先歇業然後造成我們美商科目有這樣子的問題的產生\n362475\t387686\t我請我們環保署嚴署長回答一下好不好是包括委員關心的科目的這一個他在農地確實當時是有那個硫酸的污染並且有一些廢棄物的問題那這部分地方政府已經給他做開罰而且他患有這一個刑事的責任已經移送檢調單位去做調查\n388746\t410414\t那這部分也要求他在這個清理三千噸的一些一些污染物那委員所關心到的其實我們的官場是這樣子我們所管制的事業他在官場之前就必須提具相關的報告先做審查沒有問題之後對啊那為什麼\n411734\t427326\t為什麼要針對第三條說不用提然後如果沒有提抓到以後再來罰錢你應該是讓他先提供資料資料提供以後確定沒問題再讓他歇業啊為什麼開一條路說你先歇業如果查到你沒有做這些調查或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰你為什麼要開這個後門呢\n430590\t445138\t這個不是後門這個是說在環保機關的立場你一定要提但是如果說程序上他有瑕疵被我們發現到他沒有提的話就有這個滑管我倒覺得是不是應該他把這些資料\n445698\t445718\t朗誠議員\n467148\t486705\t我們這個美商科目我跟那個部長報告它裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物這是一級危險物品這個整個觀音鄉親的生命還有我們整個工業區到時候都一起賠賬給涂權報告我覺得我的看法是這樣子前兩條基本上我們是相信\n487766\t506347\t書面報告就是說這個這家公司他寫的這個報告我們相信他對我的意思是說事實上是留有角數你一二條已經很完善了為什麼要訂定一個第三條給你先辦給你先歇業到時候有問題我再來罰你錢那也就是說他都先停止營業了\n507248\t532876\t然後萬一發生問題我再來處理我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊確定沒問題再讓他辦理歇業而且我們一定要記得這RCA這個事件當初也是這樣因為美商科木公司他也是美商的到時候萬一他走掉以後是不是我們要再打這個跨國輸送這個到時候所勞民傷財而且對人民造成的傷害這是沒有辦法去用金錢來彌補的\n534176\t537360\t所以我覺得針對這個第三條的部分當然這個可能是經濟部的部分但是我覺得這因為有影響到我們環境污染的問題我覺得我們環境部針對這部分針對我們工廠歇業申請書的部分我覺得我們應該要重視\n553079\t577278\t應該是不是考慮一下把第三條刪除如果要辦理歇業等等應該把這些資料檢據確定沒問題再辦理歇業你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題你讓他歇業整個工廠裡面沒有人管理只有造成這鹽酸管破裂造成土壤污染水源污染這個已經是沒有辦法挽回了所以我希望針對這部分\n578559\t599774\t我們避免將來我們桃園現在有一萬兩千間廠房這空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群所以希望我們環境部或跨部會成立專案小組而且針對美商科目公司這後續還有沒有多少污染的問題請環境部來重視還有這第三條的部分請我們環境部來研擬一下是不是把資料檢據以後再讓他們來歇業不要\n608121\t616898\t讓這個問題造成以後再來處理這個處罰的問題我接著都為時已晚好謝謝涂權吉那請部長這邊再多幫忙我們來努力好謝謝\n","txt":"好,謝謝趙偉請我們的薛部長好,有請部長好,同仁好\n部長你好是那我有看到你們的報告針對開發我們的環境評估跟保護我們環境部也都是非常重視那當然因為開發很重要那我們因為想針對測場部分的問題我覺得我們也要重視所以測場部分以後像有些工廠測場部分像有沒有造成土地的污染我們是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題\n突然講的是光電場域對沒關係我的意思是說開發很重要啦只是說希望環境部也要重視一下像有些廠撤廠的問題尤其我們現在因為我們中美貿易戰還有我們製造供應鏈的重組還有台商的回流這5年內我們工業地大概\n大概翻了一倍也就是說當然這是好事啦那但是土地喔有人買就一定有人賣那工業地成交量喔那最近也是成交量高達了6千億那請問一下部長知不知道這全台灣最高成交量六都是哪裡嗎\n桃園應該是...對 所以環境部部長我們薛部長對這是有研究那而且我們桃園目前有36處的產業園區那登記的工廠也高達一萬兩千多間那請問一下那個最近有一些像桃園我們觀音有一個廠像美商科目官廠這個不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科目公司\n對這家公司我瞭解的不多對因為他之前也因為他8月吳裕景官場也有很多的勞資的糾紛跟公安的意外跟我們環境部最有關係的就是他之前科目公司吳裕景官場之後他的研酸管破裂造成我們觀音\n大窟西毒死上萬條的魚那當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要這測場的部分我們也希望我們環境部能夠來注意那像這個場他\n無預警撤場他已經沒有營業許可了那可是為什麼我們沒有營業許可之後也沒有好好去管理管制讓這個鹽酸或任意的洩漏排到我們大窟西而且最後還是民眾去卷舉之後我們才發現這件事情不知道環境部對這有什麼看法\n給圖文報告基本上因為這一家根據剛剛文的訊息顯示事實上它裡面有牽涉操作運作一些這個有害物質那他們公司可能就是因為他撤廠了他還是必須把他那些有毒性或者說危害環境的這些要去做處理只是他處理過程當中應該是便宜行事就直接\n透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查\n當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條\n就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的 土壤講的是\n那我在針對我們有一個工廠歇業的申請書根據我們土木法第9條當然第一條的部分就是說他如果非環保署第9條管制的我們就免免檢據這個\n資料的審查那第二條就是說如果在第九條規範之中他就要提供這個評估的調查機資料的審查這兩項是沒有問題可是我們不知道為什麼要甄列第三項\n就是本公司場所環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第9條指定公告之事頁如未依該定第9條的規定先檢據用地土壤評估調查及檢據資料報請環保局審查將被環保局處以新台幣15萬元以及75萬元以下的法源就是說他們已經充分了解然後請他們\n來辦理歇業為什麼要開這一條路就是說他不用提供這個報告就可以讓他先歇業而讓他造成問題我們再來調查說他怎麼沒有去做這個做這個檢測還有這個評估報告為什麼要開這個第三條就是說不用提供就給他先歇業然後造成我們美商科目有這樣子的問題的產生\n我請我們環保署嚴署長回答一下好不好是包括委員關心的科目的這一個他在農地確實當時是有那個硫酸的污染並且有一些廢棄物的問題那這部分地方政府已經給他做開罰而且他患有這一個刑事的責任已經移送檢調單位去做調查\n那這部分也要求他在這個清理三千噸的一些一些污染物那委員所關心到的其實我們的官場是這樣子我們所管制的事業他在官場之前就必須提具相關的報告先做審查沒有問題之後對啊那為什麼\n為什麼要針對第三條說不用提然後如果沒有提抓到以後再來罰錢你應該是讓他先提供資料資料提供以後確定沒問題再讓他歇業啊為什麼開一條路說你先歇業如果查到你沒有做這些調查或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰你為什麼要開這個後門呢\n這個不是後門這個是說在環保機關的立場你一定要提但是如果說程序上他有瑕疵被我們發現到他沒有提的話就有這個滑管我倒覺得是不是應該他把這些資料\n朗誠議員\n我們這個美商科目我跟那個部長報告它裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物這是一級危險物品這個整個觀音鄉親的生命還有我們整個工業區到時候都一起賠賬給涂權報告我覺得我的看法是這樣子前兩條基本上我們是相信\n書面報告就是說這個這家公司他寫的這個報告我們相信他對我的意思是說事實上是留有角數你一二條已經很完善了為什麼要訂定一個第三條給你先辦給你先歇業到時候有問題我再來罰你錢那也就是說他都先停止營業了\n然後萬一發生問題我再來處理我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊確定沒問題再讓他辦理歇業而且我們一定要記得這RCA這個事件當初也是這樣因為美商科木公司他也是美商的到時候萬一他走掉以後是不是我們要再打這個跨國輸送這個到時候所勞民傷財而且對人民造成的傷害這是沒有辦法去用金錢來彌補的\n所以我覺得針對這個第三條的部分當然這個可能是經濟部的部分但是我覺得這因為有影響到我們環境污染的問題我覺得我們環境部針對這部分針對我們工廠歇業申請書的部分我覺得我們應該要重視\n應該是不是考慮一下把第三條刪除如果要辦理歇業等等應該把這些資料檢據確定沒問題再辦理歇業你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題你讓他歇業整個工廠裡面沒有人管理只有造成這鹽酸管破裂造成土壤污染水源污染這個已經是沒有辦法挽回了所以我希望針對這部分\n我們避免將來我們桃園現在有一萬兩千間廠房這空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群所以希望我們環境部或跨部會成立專案小組而且針對美商科目公司這後續還有沒有多少污染的問題請環境部來重視還有這第三條的部分請我們環境部來研擬一下是不是把資料檢據以後再讓他們來歇業不要\n讓這個問題造成以後再來處理這個處罰的問題我接著都為時已晚好謝謝涂權吉那請部長這邊再多幫忙我們來努力好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.890 --> 00:16.724\n好,謝謝趙偉請我們的薛部長好,有請部長好,同仁好\n\n00:18.147 --> 00:45.500\n部長你好是那我有看到你們的報告針對開發我們的環境評估跟保護我們環境部也都是非常重視那當然因為開發很重要那我們因為想針對測場部分的問題我覺得我們也要重視所以測場部分以後像有些工廠測場部分像有沒有造成土地的污染我們是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題\n\n00:47.591 --> 01:09.342\n突然講的是光電場域對沒關係我的意思是說開發很重要啦只是說希望環境部也要重視一下像有些廠撤廠的問題尤其我們現在因為我們中美貿易戰還有我們製造供應鏈的重組還有台商的回流這5年內我們工業地大概\n\n01:10.262 --> 01:28.509\n大概翻了一倍也就是說當然這是好事啦那但是土地喔有人買就一定有人賣那工業地成交量喔那最近也是成交量高達了6千億那請問一下部長知不知道這全台灣最高成交量六都是哪裡嗎\n\n01:30.179 --> 01:55.928\n桃園應該是...對所以環境部部長我們薛部長對這是有研究那而且我們桃園目前有36處的產業園區那登記的工廠也高達一萬兩千多間那請問一下那個最近有一些像桃園我們觀音有一個廠像美商科目官廠這個不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科目公司\n\n01:58.166 --> 02:21.545\n對這家公司我瞭解的不多對因為他之前也因為他8月吳裕景官場也有很多的勞資的糾紛跟公安的意外跟我們環境部最有關係的就是他之前科目公司吳裕景官場之後他的研酸管破裂造成我們觀音\n\n02:22.265 --> 02:34.411\n大窟西毒死上萬條的魚那當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要這測場的部分我們也希望我們環境部能夠來注意那像這個場他\n\n02:37.185 --> 03:01.253\n無預警撤場他已經沒有營業許可了那可是為什麼我們沒有營業許可之後也沒有好好去管理管制讓這個鹽酸或任意的洩漏排到我們大窟西而且最後還是民眾去卷舉之後我們才發現這件事情不知道環境部對這有什麼看法\n\n03:01.893 --> 03:29.934\n給圖文報告基本上因為這一家根據剛剛文的訊息顯示事實上它裡面有牽涉操作運作一些這個有害物質那他們公司可能就是因為他撤廠了他還是必須把他那些有毒性或者說危害環境的這些要去做處理只是他處理過程當中應該是便宜行事就直接\n\n03:31.195 --> 03:53.576\n透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查\n\n03:55.066 --> 04:20.384\n當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條\n\n04:21.786 --> 04:35.821\n就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的土壤講的是\n\n04:38.206 --> 04:52.993\n那我在針對我們有一個工廠歇業的申請書根據我們土木法第9條當然第一條的部分就是說他如果非環保署第9條管制的我們就免免檢據這個\n\n04:55.354 --> 05:09.648\n資料的審查那第二條就是說如果在第九條規範之中他就要提供這個評估的調查機資料的審查這兩項是沒有問題可是我們不知道為什麼要甄列第三項\n\n05:10.669 --> 05:36.961\n就是本公司場所環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第9條指定公告之事頁如未依該定第9條的規定先檢據用地土壤評估調查及檢據資料報請環保局審查將被環保局處以新台幣15萬元以及75萬元以下的法源就是說他們已經充分了解然後請他們\n\n05:38.001 --> 06:00.809\n來辦理歇業為什麼要開這一條路就是說他不用提供這個報告就可以讓他先歇業而讓他造成問題我們再來調查說他怎麼沒有去做這個做這個檢測還有這個評估報告為什麼要開這個第三條就是說不用提供就給他先歇業然後造成我們美商科目有這樣子的問題的產生\n\n06:02.475 --> 06:27.686\n我請我們環保署嚴署長回答一下好不好是包括委員關心的科目的這一個他在農地確實當時是有那個硫酸的污染並且有一些廢棄物的問題那這部分地方政府已經給他做開罰而且他患有這一個刑事的責任已經移送檢調單位去做調查\n\n06:28.746 --> 06:50.414\n那這部分也要求他在這個清理三千噸的一些一些污染物那委員所關心到的其實我們的官場是這樣子我們所管制的事業他在官場之前就必須提具相關的報告先做審查沒有問題之後對啊那為什麼\n\n06:51.734 --> 07:07.326\n為什麼要針對第三條說不用提然後如果沒有提抓到以後再來罰錢你應該是讓他先提供資料資料提供以後確定沒問題再讓他歇業啊為什麼開一條路說你先歇業如果查到你沒有做這些調查或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰你為什麼要開這個後門呢\n\n07:10.590 --> 07:25.138\n這個不是後門這個是說在環保機關的立場你一定要提但是如果說程序上他有瑕疵被我們發現到他沒有提的話就有這個滑管我倒覺得是不是應該他把這些資料\n\n07:25.698 --> 07:25.718\n朗誠議員\n\n07:47.148 --> 08:06.705\n我們這個美商科目我跟那個部長報告它裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物這是一級危險物品這個整個觀音鄉親的生命還有我們整個工業區到時候都一起賠賬給涂權報告我覺得我的看法是這樣子前兩條基本上我們是相信\n\n08:07.766 --> 08:26.347\n書面報告就是說這個這家公司他寫的這個報告我們相信他對我的意思是說事實上是留有角數你一二條已經很完善了為什麼要訂定一個第三條給你先辦給你先歇業到時候有問題我再來罰你錢那也就是說他都先停止營業了\n\n08:27.248 --> 08:52.876\n然後萬一發生問題我再來處理我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊確定沒問題再讓他辦理歇業而且我們一定要記得這RCA這個事件當初也是這樣因為美商科木公司他也是美商的到時候萬一他走掉以後是不是我們要再打這個跨國輸送這個到時候所勞民傷財而且對人民造成的傷害這是沒有辦法去用金錢來彌補的\n\n08:54.176 --> 08:57.360\n所以我覺得針對這個第三條的部分當然這個可能是經濟部的部分但是我覺得這因為有影響到我們環境污染的問題我覺得我們環境部針對這部分針對我們工廠歇業申請書的部分我覺得我們應該要重視\n\n09:13.079 --> 09:37.278\n應該是不是考慮一下把第三條刪除如果要辦理歇業等等應該把這些資料檢據確定沒問題再辦理歇業你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題你讓他歇業整個工廠裡面沒有人管理只有造成這鹽酸管破裂造成土壤污染水源污染這個已經是沒有辦法挽回了所以我希望針對這部分\n\n09:38.559 --> 09:59.774\n我們避免將來我們桃園現在有一萬兩千間廠房這空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群所以希望我們環境部或跨部會成立專案小組而且針對美商科目公司這後續還有沒有多少污染的問題請環境部來重視還有這第三條的部分請我們環境部來研擬一下是不是把資料檢據以後再讓他們來歇業不要\n\n10:08.121 --> 10:16.898\n讓這個問題造成以後再來處理這個處罰的問題我接著都為時已晚好謝謝涂權吉那請部長這邊再多幫忙我們來努力好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.89,"end":16.724,"text":"好,謝謝趙偉請我們的薛部長好,有請部長好,同仁好"},{"start":18.147,"end":45.5,"text":"部長你好是那我有看到你們的報告針對開發我們的環境評估跟保護我們環境部也都是非常重視那當然因為開發很重要那我們因為想針對測場部分的問題我覺得我們也要重視所以測場部分以後像有些工廠測場部分像有沒有造成土地的污染我們是不是也應該要重視這部分的問題"},{"start":47.591,"end":69.342,"text":"突然講的是光電場域對沒關係我的意思是說開發很重要啦只是說希望環境部也要重視一下像有些廠撤廠的問題尤其我們現在因為我們中美貿易戰還有我們製造供應鏈的重組還有台商的回流這5年內我們工業地大概"},{"start":70.262,"end":88.509,"text":"大概翻了一倍也就是說當然這是好事啦那但是土地喔有人買就一定有人賣那工業地成交量喔那最近也是成交量高達了6千億那請問一下部長知不知道這全台灣最高成交量六都是哪裡嗎"},{"start":90.179,"end":115.928,"text":"桃園應該是...對 所以環境部部長我們薛部長對這是有研究那而且我們桃園目前有36處的產業園區那登記的工廠也高達一萬兩千多間那請問一下那個最近有一些像桃園我們觀音有一個廠像美商科目官廠這個不知道環境部部長知不知道美商科目公司"},{"start":118.166,"end":141.545,"text":"對這家公司我瞭解的不多對因為他之前也因為他8月吳裕景官場也有很多的勞資的糾紛跟公安的意外跟我們環境部最有關係的就是他之前科目公司吳裕景官場之後他的研酸管破裂造成我們觀音"},{"start":142.265,"end":154.411,"text":"大窟西毒死上萬條的魚那當然就像我們剛剛講開發很重要這測場的部分我們也希望我們環境部能夠來注意那像這個場他"},{"start":157.185,"end":181.253,"text":"無預警撤場他已經沒有營業許可了那可是為什麼我們沒有營業許可之後也沒有好好去管理管制讓這個鹽酸或任意的洩漏排到我們大窟西而且最後還是民眾去卷舉之後我們才發現這件事情不知道環境部對這有什麼看法"},{"start":181.893,"end":209.934,"text":"給圖文報告基本上因為這一家根據剛剛文的訊息顯示事實上它裡面有牽涉操作運作一些這個有害物質那他們公司可能就是因為他撤廠了他還是必須把他那些有毒性或者說危害環境的這些要去做處理只是他處理過程當中應該是便宜行事就直接"},{"start":211.195,"end":233.576,"text":"透過案款或其他方式排大對所以我今天提出的重點問題就是希望我們環境部這一部分要先重視一下我不知道說這個地方到底我們先不管這個權責是中央還是地方他在官場前是不是先應該做好我們的污染的評估跟資料的審查"},{"start":235.066,"end":260.384,"text":"當然假如說我們從這家公司來看我個人認為他應該是目的是主管機關應該是縣市政府但是中央也是責無旁貸因為我們本來跟縣市的環保局之間的對看起來直接是地方的問題是好那因為這個有牽扯到就是工廠歇業的問題根據我們土壤及地下水污染整治第9條"},{"start":261.786,"end":275.821,"text":"就是說如果這個工廠要歇業我們是不是應該要先做好土壤的污染調查然後才能進行審查才像我們來申請這個歇業是不是應該是這樣是的 土壤講的是"},{"start":278.206,"end":292.993,"text":"那我在針對我們有一個工廠歇業的申請書根據我們土木法第9條當然第一條的部分就是說他如果非環保署第9條管制的我們就免免檢據這個"},{"start":295.354,"end":309.648,"text":"資料的審查那第二條就是說如果在第九條規範之中他就要提供這個評估的調查機資料的審查這兩項是沒有問題可是我們不知道為什麼要甄列第三項"},{"start":310.669,"end":336.961,"text":"就是本公司場所環保署依土壤及地下水污染整治法第9條指定公告之事頁如未依該定第9條的規定先檢據用地土壤評估調查及檢據資料報請環保局審查將被環保局處以新台幣15萬元以及75萬元以下的法源就是說他們已經充分了解然後請他們"},{"start":338.001,"end":360.809,"text":"來辦理歇業為什麼要開這一條路就是說他不用提供這個報告就可以讓他先歇業而讓他造成問題我們再來調查說他怎麼沒有去做這個做這個檢測還有這個評估報告為什麼要開這個第三條就是說不用提供就給他先歇業然後造成我們美商科目有這樣子的問題的產生"},{"start":362.475,"end":387.686,"text":"我請我們環保署嚴署長回答一下好不好是包括委員關心的科目的這一個他在農地確實當時是有那個硫酸的污染並且有一些廢棄物的問題那這部分地方政府已經給他做開罰而且他患有這一個刑事的責任已經移送檢調單位去做調查"},{"start":388.746,"end":410.414,"text":"那這部分也要求他在這個清理三千噸的一些一些污染物那委員所關心到的其實我們的官場是這樣子我們所管制的事業他在官場之前就必須提具相關的報告先做審查沒有問題之後對啊那為什麼"},{"start":411.734,"end":427.326,"text":"為什麼要針對第三條說不用提然後如果沒有提抓到以後再來罰錢你應該是讓他先提供資料資料提供以後確定沒問題再讓他歇業啊為什麼開一條路說你先歇業如果查到你沒有做這些調查或者有什麼問題的時候再來罰你為什麼要開這個後門呢"},{"start":430.59,"end":445.138,"text":"這個不是後門這個是說在環保機關的立場你一定要提但是如果說程序上他有瑕疵被我們發現到他沒有提的話就有這個滑管我倒覺得是不是應該他把這些資料"},{"start":445.698,"end":445.718,"text":"朗誠議員"},{"start":467.148,"end":486.705,"text":"我們這個美商科目我跟那個部長報告它裡面是大量的氯氣跟氯化物這是一級危險物品這個整個觀音鄉親的生命還有我們整個工業區到時候都一起賠賬給涂權報告我覺得我的看法是這樣子前兩條基本上我們是相信"},{"start":487.766,"end":506.347,"text":"書面報告就是說這個這家公司他寫的這個報告我們相信他對我的意思是說事實上是留有角數你一二條已經很完善了為什麼要訂定一個第三條給你先辦給你先歇業到時候有問題我再來罰你錢那也就是說他都先停止營業了"},{"start":507.248,"end":532.876,"text":"然後萬一發生問題我再來處理我覺得為什麼不把所有資料備齊確定沒問題再讓他辦理歇業而且我們一定要記得這RCA這個事件當初也是這樣因為美商科木公司他也是美商的到時候萬一他走掉以後是不是我們要再打這個跨國輸送這個到時候所勞民傷財而且對人民造成的傷害這是沒有辦法去用金錢來彌補的"},{"start":534.176,"end":537.36,"text":"所以我覺得針對這個第三條的部分當然這個可能是經濟部的部分但是我覺得這因為有影響到我們環境污染的問題我覺得我們環境部針對這部分針對我們工廠歇業申請書的部分我覺得我們應該要重視"},{"start":553.079,"end":577.278,"text":"應該是不是考慮一下把第三條刪除如果要辦理歇業等等應該把這些資料檢據確定沒問題再辦理歇業你看現在這個造成這麼大的問題你讓他歇業整個工廠裡面沒有人管理只有造成這鹽酸管破裂造成土壤污染水源污染這個已經是沒有辦法挽回了所以我希望針對這部分"},{"start":578.559,"end":599.774,"text":"我們避免將來我們桃園現在有一萬兩千間廠房這空氣污染跟重金屬污染已經讓桃園成為高風險群所以希望我們環境部或跨部會成立專案小組而且針對美商科目公司這後續還有沒有多少污染的問題請環境部來重視還有這第三條的部分請我們環境部來研擬一下是不是把資料檢據以後再讓他們來歇業不要"},{"start":608.121,"end":616.898,"text":"讓這個問題造成以後再來處理這個處罰的問題我接著都為時已晚好謝謝涂權吉那請部長這邊再多幫忙我們來努力好謝謝"}]}}}}