{"id":150204,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150204","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052a99ec54b0ca0ceb07dd815aba809727bf8ba9b0039caa7a68b5c004b5ca1c9ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:47:28 - 10:01:19","影片長度":"00:13:51","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請立法院秘書長列席就「中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-8"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":831,"end_time":"2024-03-21T10:01:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T09:47:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":286,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時47分）謝謝主席，有請兩位秘書長。"],["主席：好，請兩位秘書長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：兩大秘書長啦！我想我來延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問就教兩位秘書長，針對總統到立法院來進行國情的報告，其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在，各種論點都互有攻防，也經過相當充分的討論。其實最希望總統，尤其是賴清德準總統到立法院這個地方做國情報告的，我看就是曾經講過一生只監督你一人的謝龍介跟他的秘雕啦！我知道他很期待啊！但是我要提出來的就是，從1992年修憲以後，按照中華民國憲法增修條文第十一條第三項，國民大會集會的時候得聽取總統的國情報告並檢討國是，提供建言；如果一年內沒有集會，由總統召集臨時會為之，並不受憲法第三十條的限制。我就來請教兩位秘書長，其實憲法就是國之根本大法，憲法是一個抽象性的規範，就一個國家體制的運作約束執政者的權力，憲法也不會去規定得太細，譬如說憲法也不可能去規定秘書長你們兩個走路1分鐘只能走幾步，憲法也不會去規定立法委員1天只能穿幾套衣服，不會去講這些不重要的東西，而會講重要的事情。但是在憲法這麼抽象、這麼精簡的規定裡面，它裡面的用語都有很重要的意義，尤其涉及到機關之間、行政部門的用語還有涉及到跟立法院相互之間的權力關係，秘書長，你是很隱晦的說用語不同，這個其實就嚴重了，所謂的用語不同就是說你如果違反就是違憲了，難道不是這樣嗎？內行人就說內行話嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：因為我教立法技術也教幾十年了……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：因為今天委員會叫我來報告是提建議啦！"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦！我要聽你的意見，沒關係，我跟你說，我絕對不會去說，你算是前輩，我問你我不會認為我在上面，你在下面，上對下，我不會這樣認為啦！但是總是要在這裡將你的意見說出來，這沒關係。憲法跟院際之間，一個字不同，都有它特殊的意義啦！我想兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法。","其實你再去看看，你看到了隔年1993年1月4號，國民大會第2次會議的時候，李登輝前總統去建立總統赴國民大會國情報告的一個慣例。在1996年總統直選以後就每年都去，後面算很愛去你知道嗎？總共去了7次，1992年到1999年去了7次，通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後，李前總統去做綜合的答復，當時我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛！即問即答、必須答復這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦！第一個，憲法也沒規定，第二個，翻遍你的條文，也沒有這樣的一個規定。","在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前，當時的國民大會握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權力，並且由國民大會中的國大代表來提出、選出，當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責，當然看法會有所不同啊！但是在規範上，其實沒有這樣的規定，但李前總統能基於尊重，前往國民大會去進行國情的報告，國民大會當初也沒有，我請教周秘書長，我們沒有也沒關係，不然我們來看別的國家有這樣規定嗎？不然你跟我說別的國家有沒有總統去，我們來一問一答，你有沒有看過這種？我是比較沒有學識、沒有見聞啦！但是我好像沒有看過欸。"],["周秘書長萬來：今天我來做專題報告，我們法制局有特別做了一個表，我想莊委員……"],["莊委員瑞雄：有沒有啦？我時間很寶貴啦！"],["周秘書長萬來：莊委員也看過，那裡面就已經對於國情報告的部分，大概幾個國家……莊委員可以看這裡面，很清楚，那個表裡面都有寫。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我問你有沒有，你現在叫我自己去看，你這樣也不好，你這個老先覺這樣不好，你這樣如果是別人問你，你就會被人家罵了，我跟你說，每一個人的問政風格、個性不同，我就不能這樣做，怎麼會我問你，你叫我自己去看，這樣對嗎？有沒有？你有沒有看過？我請教你，不然我跟你撒嬌啦！有沒有啦？"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝，為什麼我在專題報告這個部分？因為其實莊委員，我們在院裡面也非常久啦！我只是要說明，因為如果以我個人在教書的立場，跟我在這邊作為秘書長的立場……"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒有啦！我問你有沒有看過，你跟我說教書立場，還叫我自己去看，如果是國民黨、在野黨質詢你的話，你就被他們罵死了，我跟你說。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我跟你不同黨，我對你算很尊重欸！"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝你、謝謝你。因為委員也看到美國、法國的例子都在裡面。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦！有沒有？我問你有沒有，你說在裡面，在裡面是有還是沒有？你寫的你自己怎麼會不知道？你怎麼不敢說？"],["周秘書長萬來：我這樣說明啦！因為現行的……"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你叫做立法院的秘書長，你如果要用這種方式，我是尊重你喔！不要說部會首長以後大家都學你，立法院的秘書長都這樣，說你們自己去看，哪有這樣的事情！"],["周秘書長萬來：莊委員，我這樣報告，可能……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你這樣不行啦！你算是老先覺……"],["周秘書長萬來：我知道，我收回，我收回我剛才所說的話。我要這樣說明，因為這個裡面……"],["莊委員瑞雄：等一下、等一下、等一下，主席，我問他有沒有問過，他跟我說了5分鐘，浪費我5分鐘的時間跟我說這些，這樣怎麼對？秘書長，你這樣怎麼對？"],["主席：麻煩直接回答……"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，那傅崐萁的10分鐘留給我。秘書長，你這樣不行啦！"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝、謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是韓國瑜叫你來用這一招的喔？"],["周秘書長萬來：沒有，謝謝你。"],["莊委員瑞雄：枉費我對你這麼尊重，我也有脾氣欸！你這樣怎麼對？"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝，謝謝莊委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我問你有沒有，你跟我說，叫我自己去看，還說放在裡面，知道……"],["主席：委員息怒一下，可以直接回答嗎？直球對決嘛。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不是我息怒啦！我是說大家都有脾氣，我不要用這種問法，你跟我回答這樣，我是跟你說你是前輩，如果是別人的話我就會訐譙他了，你知不知道？"],["周秘書長萬來：是，謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你當作我脾氣很好？"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝你，我剛才已經說明了嘛，美國、法國都沒有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒有你跟我說沒有就好嘛，你跟我說了5分鐘，繞了5分鐘，叫我自己去看。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：哪有這樣的？你們這樣實在是……，枉費你們韓國瑜現在是百分之五十幾，用你這個當秘書長，馬上掉30%，我跟你說！你怎麼可以這樣？這樣不行！秘書長這樣不行喔！我雖然不能講……我是基於你是前輩喔！你怎麼可以這樣回答我呢？亂來！真的實在是！我不會認為我對你是上對下啦，我會跟你講理啦！但你這個叫不講理啦！這不行啦！好不好？這怎麼可以這樣子呢？所以本席要講的就是，比如說，我們這個叫一對一，我也不會認為你是反質詢啊，你愛怎麼質詢我，我就跟你攻防嘛！你如果比我厲害，我漏氣，我就鼻子摸一摸，這樣而已，哪有什麼呢？我如果跟傅崐萁打架打輸的話，我也是鼻子摸一摸，自己塗牛屎而已，哪有你們這樣說的？你們這個就不好了，在國會裡面建立這種文化不好。","我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來，他做過國代、他做過立委、做過縣市長、做過行政院長，備詢經驗他也很豐富啊！他來到這裡總是不好嘛！他來報告要一問一答，那這樣好了，我們假設你現在是總統，周準總統好不好？你是總統，我問你，來到立法院，算我們的地盤，我問完之後，你準備得很充分，你讓我漏氣了，你怎麼來立法院讓我漏氣？所以你要回答也會很謹慎。你一個國家元首，我在這裡讓你漏氣，你剛要就任，這樣也不好！所以各方有所權衡，就是按照憲法的規定來嘛！憲法的條文用語有所不同，那個叫做院際之間，它故意明顯地做差別待遇嘛！不是這樣說嗎？專業的人在說，下面的人都在那裡嘛！秘書長，你也是專業的人嘛，我們就說實在話就好了！","再來我要問你的就是，前幾天人家在討論沒收委員的質詢那件事，你是笨到不會去跟你們院長提醒一下喔？議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啦，沒有一個院長會出錯，為什麼他會出錯？這很簡單，你也跟他說一下，你做秘書長，你失職！你要跟他說這不可以喔！這不要開玩笑。如果當到院長的人，還有4個字啦──調和鼎鼐！一屆是4年欸，你當做是一天的新聞，過了就好？喔！我今天好了不起，好了不起！我今天把全部立委的質詢都沒收了，你不就很厲害？我如果要跟你周萬來亂，你會被我亂死，我跟你說，但是我的個性，我就不喜歡這樣嘛！所以要講道理嘛！你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益，不管他是哪一黨嘛！不是這樣說嗎？你光是點頭都不回答，從頭到尾都沒應半句，但跟我說的每句話都是廢話，這樣對嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝莊委員，謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不是啦！這樣就不好了，我不是這樣的人，但是你把我的脾氣惹起來了，你的答詢方式把我的脾氣惹起來了，這樣怎麼可以呢？要講道理嘛！到這邊備詢要講道理嘛！","國會擴建，我相信在上一次……","報告召委，不是我拖時間，你很清楚，他耽誤我5分鐘的時間。你想這要怎麼講？立法院裡面大家在講很多委員好像故意要講得很長，哪是？5分鐘都被你占用了，並不是我故意要講得很長。","國會擴建的事我連一個字都還沒講到，游院長在的時候，我相信他對整個國會不管是遷建還是擴建，他很關心！你注意看，你看現在是這樣，我們這次在質詢的時候，你看國民黨的助理有人摔下去，我們整個國會分散多處。繼續看，這是我們國會的地圖，你再看看國外，這個你看過了，這些如果去拜訪都有，你看那個大笨鐘在那裡，你看美國的、德國的、英國的，人家是這個樣子。這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃，讓國會更有尊嚴？我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服，我們立法院自己沒有受到民眾的尊重，就是我們表現得不好，所以要跟人家說這個，說不定民意會有反彈。但是國會去做擴建，其實也有它的必要性，我看一個新的院長來了，你們來了之後，這個議題就沒了！我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作？有沒有在努力？但秘書長，這個也是你的職責，好不好？"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。我大概簡單1分鐘跟莊委員報告……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你要跟我說真的，不能跟我說假的喔！你如果再跟我說廢話，我就翻臉，我告訴你！"],["周秘書長萬來：我在接待公督盟的時候，他們也有提了。我來以後，我知道游院長在後面也說這一屆要繼續，我也跟院長稍微報告過。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦！我希望你要盡力輔佐韓院長，畢竟他的個性瘋瘋的，你知不知道？他那個人很有趣，但瘋瘋顛顛的，你要控制他一下，真的，人氣那麼高，幹一個立法院長，他其實可以幹得很出色，問題是像這樣的一個爭議，讓它這樣子延燒，不要以為他真的有得利，傷害到整個立法院也不好。有4年，所以你們要好好補救，總統到國會裡面來，我相信任何總統都很想踏進立法院，過去沒有進來有歷史的沿革，立法院到最後自己不要。憲法裡面的一個規定放在那裡，大家好好研究，我相信其實道理很清楚。期待秘書長下一回備詢，沒有叫國會議員自己看的這種事。那是我的脾氣算不錯，別人的話就丟過去了。我跟你講，怎麼可以讓你這樣？不能這樣，OK。你算是前輩了，可以這樣處理事情嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。兩位秘書長，早上到現在已經有兩位委員認為秘書長都沒有直接回答他們的問題，我們想麻煩兩位秘書長，接下來還有進行詢答的時候直接回答，這樣比較不會浪費大家的時間。好，謝謝。","接下來我們請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","羅智強","翁曉玲","林思銘","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","柯建銘","鄭天財Sra 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0.624}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 817.384, \"end\": 817.404, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 817.404, \"end\": 817.524, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 817.524, \"end\": 817.584, \"score\": 0.036}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 817.584, \"end\": 817.604, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 817.604, \"end\": 817.624, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 817.624, \"end\": 817.744, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 817.744, \"end\": 817.864, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"輩\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 817.864, \"end\": 817.924, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 817.924, \"end\": 818.124, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 818.124, \"end\": 818.184, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 818.184, \"end\": 818.204, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 818.204, \"end\": 818.304, \"score\": 0.518}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 818.304, \"end\": 818.324, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 818.324, \"end\": 818.344, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,524 --> 00:00:08,285\n謝謝主席有請兩位秘書長兩大秘書長我想我來繼續延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問來就教兩位秘書長針對總統到立法院來進行這個國情的一個報告其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在這個各種論點\n\n2\n00:00:27,651 --> 00:00:42,565\n都互有攻防其實也經過相當的一個討充分的一個討論其實最喜歡讓希望這個總統尤其是賴清德總統到立法院來這個地方做國情報告的我看就是\n\n3\n00:00:44,195 --> 00:01:03,398\n曾經講過必生一生只監督一個人這個謝榮介跟他的必雕所以我知道他很期待但是我要提出來的就是說從1992年修憲以後按照中華民國憲法政修條文第11條第三項國民大會集會的時候得聽取\n\n4\n00:01:04,399 --> 00:01:25,131\n總統的國情報告並檢討國事提供建言如果一年內沒有去集會以後總統召集臨時會為之並不受憲法第30條的一個限制我就來請教兩位秘書長就是說其實憲法就是國之根本大法憲法是一個抽象性的一個規範就一個國家體制的一個運作\n\n5\n00:01:26,307 --> 00:01:27,508\n約束執政者的權利\n\n6\n00:01:56,247 --> 00:02:10,332\n都會有他的重要意義啊尤其涉及到機關之間行政部門他的用語還有涉及到跟對立法院之間相互之間權益關係啊秘書長你是很隱晦的說用語不同這個其實是嚴重啦所謂的用語不同就是說你如果給我違反這就叫做違憲了啦那不是這樣說那內行人就說內行威嘛\n\n7\n00:02:24,134 --> 00:02:38,608\n其實因為我教立法系數的教了幾十年啦是嘛那因為的情況上其實這因為因為我今天來報告來委員會叫我來報告是建議啦\n\n8\n00:02:39,168 --> 00:02:42,109\n是啦,我聽你的意見,我告訴你,我絕對不會說,你這個算先輩,我問我沒關係,我比你,我在典館,你會對,上台下我不會這樣淫威啦但是啊,總是啊,在這,從你的意見講出來,這就沒關係,憲法跟運氣之間,一個字,不同,那都有它特殊的意義啦\n\n9\n00:03:06,448 --> 00:03:25,802\n我認為這兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法那其實你再去把它看看你看到了隔年1993年1月4號國民大會第二次在會議的時候李登輝前總統去建立總統向國民大會國情報告的一個慣例在1996年總統職權以後當年都去\n\n10\n00:03:30,333 --> 00:03:32,695\n1992年到1999年去了7次通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後你前總統去做綜合的一個答覆當時候我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛什麼急問急答必須答覆這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦\n\n11\n00:03:53,052 --> 00:04:05,943\n第一個憲法也沒規定啦第二個翻遍你的條文也沒有這樣的一個規定啦那在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前當時的國民大會能握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權利啊並且由國民大會中國大代表來提出選出當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責這當然看法會有所不同啊但是在規範上啊\n\n12\n00:04:18,593 --> 00:04:27,516\n其實沒有這樣的規定但李前總統能基於尊重前往國民大會去進行國情的一個報告那國民大會當初也沒有我請到總秘書長就說南部齁也沒關係不然我們看白的國家有這樣的規定嗎不然你跟他說白的國家搞說總統去說我們來疑問義大利你怎麼看過這個我是比較比較沒學識啦沒見聞啦但是我很少看過\n\n13\n00:04:46,571 --> 00:05:12,162\n我們大概我們法治局有做了今天的我來做專題報告我們法治局有特別做了一個表我想中委也看過所以在裡面就已經對於有對於國情這一個報告的部分大概幾個國家大概中委可以看裡面很清楚在裡面\n\n14\n00:05:12,722 --> 00:05:17,607\n我問你說有沒有,你為什麼叫我去看,你這樣也不好,你這個老性格這樣不好,你如果這樣別人問你就去被罵,我告訴你每一個人的問政風格、個性不同,我就不能這樣,什麼我問你,你為什麼叫我去看,這樣會中,有沒有啦,你覺得看過啦,我才請教啦,不然我給你洗奶啦\n\n15\n00:05:32,148 --> 00:05:35,909\n為什麼我帶專題報告這個部分因為其實莊委員我們也非常久在院裡面我只這樣說明因為如果以我個人在教書的立場\n\n16\n00:05:51,314 --> 00:06:14,348\n沒有啦,我問你有沒有看過,你告訴我教書立場,你叫我去看看,國民黨、財黨、藍營、孫立就叫他們教師,我跟你說,我跟你不感動,我對你算很尊重的謝謝你,謝謝你,因為委員也看到美國、法國的力度在裡面嘛是啦,有沒有啦,我問你有沒有什麼,你說在裡面,在裡面是有還是沒有,你寫你自己算不知道\n\n17\n00:06:15,308 --> 00:06:19,695\n我這樣說明啦,因為現行的秘書長,你叫他立法院的秘書長,你若要用這個方式,我是跟你尊重喔\n\n18\n00:06:27,213 --> 00:06:31,396\n莊瑞雄你不要去報告秘書長以後大家都誤會你說你中華民國秘書長都這樣說你自己去看啊有那樣的事情你這樣不行啦你是老先鋼那我要這樣說明啦因為這個裡面\n\n19\n00:06:49,261 --> 00:07:01,827\n我問他問過沒有他跟我說五分鐘跟我攏五分鐘時間跟我說這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣不行啦你是韓國瑜叫你來用這部的喔沒有謝謝你不然我對你們的尊重我也有脾氣欸你們這樣才會中什麼我問你有沒有你跟我說叫我去看什麼我放你裡面知道啦\n\n20\n00:07:14,105 --> 00:07:26,628\n我先息怒一下,那可以直接回答嗎?沒有啦,我不是息怒啦,我是說大家有脾氣,我不要這個夢幻。你給我回答這樣,我是跟你說你先輩的那半天我就把他趕走,你知道嗎?你動作和脾氣很好。謝謝你,我剛才已經說明了嘛,因為美國...沒有啦,你給我說沒有就好嘛,你給我說五分鐘,繞了五分鐘,叫我給你看。謝謝。\n\n21\n00:07:39,053 --> 00:07:45,556\n啊他們這樣是不不不你不知你們韓國人現在五十幾%用你這個做秘書就減落三十%我跟你說你還可以這樣做這樣不行這個秘書長這樣不行喔我雖然不能講說我是基於說你是前輩喔你怎麼可以這樣給我打的都亂來了這個實在是我不會認為我對你是上對下啦我會跟你講理啦但你這個叫不講理啦這不行啦好不好這怎麼可以這樣子呢所以啊本事要講的就是說啊你像譬如說啊\n\n22\n00:08:08,325 --> 00:08:08,846\n我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來\n\n23\n00:08:33,534 --> 00:08:38,859\n這位國台、這位立法院、這位管制長、這位行政議員備詢經驗他也很豐富啊!他來到這重視不好嘛!他來報告要疑問一答!欸!如果這樣好啦!我們就假設你現在是總統啦!做好準總統好不好!你叫做總統!我問你!來到立法院算我的地頭啦!\n\n24\n00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:23,830\n我問問你喔你準備得很充分我要你撈開啦你怎麼這麼容易撈開的所以你要回答你也要很謹慎你一個國家元首我在這裡撈開人家要就任也不好所以各方有所權衡就是按照憲法的規定就來嘛憲法的條文用於有所不同那個叫做怨計之間他故意明顯的做差別待遇嘛\n\n25\n00:09:25,267 --> 00:09:29,869\n我不是這樣說專業的人說的話背後的人都在那裡嘛秘書長你也專業的人嘛我們說實在為德再來我要問你啊就是說人們整幾天這樣討論莫屬委員的諮詢那些你是說到不可以把你硬拼到貼切一個喔議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啊\n\n26\n00:09:49,073 --> 00:09:55,356\n沒有一個院長會出錯,為什麼他會出錯?就很簡單,你也跟他說,你做秘書你私職你跟我說這不妙喔,你不要開玩笑喔那做到應對的人,還有事宜啊,調和定賴啊那一天是四天耶,你當作一天的新聞刷就好我今天很清,我今天很清,我今天把全部的禮物都沒收,你很厲害,你不很厲害喔\n\n27\n00:10:13,493 --> 00:10:17,696\n我如果要你做我的鑽石我跟你說是我的個性我不喜歡這樣嘛所以要講道理嘛你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益不管他叫做哪一黨嘛那不是這樣說?你只要給我點頭都不贏啦你要不要為大家告別給我一目不睹我如果給我告別都會打鼓就廢話這樣對嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:34,770 --> 00:10:43,437\n謝謝章偉不是啦這樣就不好了我不是這樣的人但是你是從我脾氣走出來的你的答詢方式你是從我脾氣走出來的這樣怎麼可以呢要講道理嘛到這邊備詢要講道理嘛國會擴建我相信在上一次啊那個報告章偉不是我拖時間你很清楚那耽誤了五分鐘的時間喔你想要怎麼回立法院裡面大家在講說很多委員故意好像故意要講得很長哪是\n\n29\n00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:10,420\n國務院長在的時候我相信他對整個國會都擴建的這個部分不管前陣還在擴建很關心你注意把他看跳到下一張你看我們這個現在是這樣我們這個在接受的時候你看國民黨的助力有人塞下去整個國會分散多處嘛繼續看這是我們國會的地圖你再看看國外\n\n30\n00:11:31,869 --> 00:11:33,150\n這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃讓國會更有尊嚴我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服我們立法院自己\n\n31\n00:11:52,540 --> 00:12:13,232\n沒有受到民眾的尊重,就是我們表現得不好所以要講這個,不然民意會有反彈但是,國會去做擴建,其實也有它的一個必要性我看是一個新的議長起來,跟你們起來之後,你們這個議題都沒有了我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作,有沒有在努力但秘書長,這個也是你的職責,好不好\n\n32\n00:12:16,714 --> 00:12:38,240\n我大概簡單一分鐘跟專委員報告因為我在接待公督門的時候他們也有提啦那因為我來以後我也知道有委員有院長在後面也有說明啦那所以要繼續這一件要繼續我也跟院長稍微有報告過\n\n33\n00:12:40,549 --> 00:12:45,652\n是啦,我是希望你對韓院長盡力的去輔佐他啦畢竟他個性小鹿鹿啦,你知道嗎?那人很醜的啦,要小小啦,你還要控制一下人真的啊,他人氣那麼高,幹個一個立法院長,他其實可以幹得很出色的啊但問題是像這樣的一個爭議,讓他這樣子延燒\n\n34\n00:13:03,902 --> 00:13:26,602\n不要以為真的他有得力傷害到整個立法院也不好啦有細膩啦有細膩啦所以你們要好好去做一個補救總統到國會裡面來我相信任何的總統他都很想踏進立法院過去沒有進來有他的一個歷史的一個嚴格立法院要改不改嘛那憲法裡面的一個規定放在那\n\n35\n00:13:27,762 --> 00:13:38,344\n好好啊大家去做一個研究我相信其實道理很清楚啦期待秘書長領抓備詢沒有這種事沒有叫國會議員自己去看那是我咧我脾氣算不錯別人就這樣把你騙了我跟你說會不會讓你這樣不然這樣啦OK你這個算先輩的人還可以這樣處理事情謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4524\t8285\t謝謝主席 有請兩位秘書長兩大秘書長我想我來繼續延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問來就教兩位秘書長針對總統到立法院來進行這個國情的一個報告其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在這個各種論點\n27651\t42565\t都互有攻防其實也經過相當的一個討 充分的一個討論其實最喜歡讓希望這個總統尤其是賴清德總統到立法院來這個地方做國情報告的我看就是\n44195\t63398\t曾經講過必生一生只監督一個人這個謝榮介跟他的必雕所以我知道他很期待但是我要提出來的就是說從1992年修憲以後按照中華民國憲法政修條文第11條第三項國民大會集會的時候得聽取\n64399\t85131\t總統的國情報告並檢討國事提供建言如果一年內沒有去集會以後總統召集臨時會為之並不受憲法第30條的一個限制我就來請教兩位秘書長就是說其實憲法就是國之根本大法憲法是一個抽象性的一個規範就一個國家體制的一個運作\n86307\t87508\t約束執政者的權利\n116247\t130332\t都會有他的重要意義啊尤其涉及到機關之間行政部門他的用語還有涉及到跟對立法院之間相互之間權益關係啊秘書長你是很隱晦的說用語不同這個其實是嚴重啦所謂的用語不同就是說你如果給我違反這就叫做違憲了啦那不是這樣說那內行人就說內行威嘛\n144134\t158608\t其實因為我教立法系數的教了幾十年啦是嘛那因為的情況上其實這因為因為我今天來報告來委員會叫我來報告是建議啦\n159168\t162109\t是啦,我聽你的意見,我告訴你,我絕對不會說,你這個算先輩,我問我沒關係,我比你,我在典館,你會對,上台下我不會這樣淫威啦但是啊,總是啊,在這,從你的意見講出來,這就沒關係,憲法跟運氣之間,一個字,不同,那都有它特殊的意義啦\n186448\t205802\t我認為這兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法那其實你再去把它看看你看到了 隔年1993年1月4號國民大會第二次在會議的時候李登輝前總統去建立總統向國民大會國情報告的一個慣例在1996年總統職權以後 當年都去\n210333\t212695\t1992年到1999年去了7次通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後你前總統去做綜合的一個答覆當時候我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛什麼急問急答必須答覆這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦\n233052\t245943\t第一個 憲法也沒規定啦第二個 翻遍你的條文也沒有這樣的一個規定啦那在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前當時的國民大會能握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權利啊並且由國民大會中國大代表來提出選出當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責這當然看法會有所不同啊但是在規範上啊\n258593\t267516\t其實沒有這樣的規定 但李前總統能基於尊重 前往國民大會去進行國情的一個報告那國民大會當初也沒有 我請到總秘書長就說 南部齁 也沒關係 不然我們看白的國家有這樣的規定嗎不然你跟他說白的國家 搞 說總統去 說我們來疑問義大利 你怎麼看過這個我是比較 比較沒學識啦 沒見聞啦 但是我很少看過\n286571\t312162\t我們大概我們法治局有做了今天的我來做專題報告我們法治局有特別做了一個表我想中委也看過所以在裡面就已經對於有對於國情這一個報告的部分大概幾個國家大概中委可以看裡面很清楚在裡面\n312722\t317607\t我問你說有沒有,你為什麼叫我去看,你這樣也不好,你這個老性格這樣不好,你如果這樣別人問你就去被罵,我告訴你每一個人的問政風格、個性不同,我就不能這樣,什麼我問你,你為什麼叫我去看,這樣會中,有沒有啦,你覺得看過啦,我才請教啦,不然我給你洗奶啦\n332148\t335909\t為什麼我帶專題報告這個部分 因為其實莊委員我們也非常久在院裡面我只這樣說明 因為如果以我個人在教書的立場\n351314\t374348\t沒有啦,我問你有沒有看過,你告訴我教書立場,你叫我去看看,國民黨、財黨、藍營、孫立就叫他們教師,我跟你說,我跟你不感動,我對你算很尊重的謝謝你,謝謝你,因為委員也看到美國、法國的力度在裡面嘛是啦,有沒有啦,我問你有沒有什麼,你說在裡面,在裡面是有還是沒有,你寫你自己算不知道\n375308\t379695\t我這樣說明啦,因為現行的秘書長,你叫他立法院的秘書長,你若要用這個方式,我是跟你尊重喔\n387213\t391396\t莊瑞雄你不要去報告秘書長以後大家都誤會你 說你中華民國秘書長都這樣說你自己去看 啊有那樣的事情你這樣不行啦 你是老先鋼那我要這樣說明啦 因為這個裡面\n409261\t421827\t我問他問過沒有 他跟我說五分鐘 跟我攏五分鐘時間 跟我說這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣不行啦 你是韓國瑜叫你來用這部的喔沒有 謝謝你 不然我對你們的尊重 我也有脾氣欸 你們這樣才會中什麼我問你有沒有 你跟我說叫我去看 什麼我放你裡面知道啦\n434105\t446628\t我先息怒一下,那可以直接回答嗎?沒有啦,我不是息怒啦,我是說大家有脾氣,我不要這個夢幻。你給我回答這樣,我是跟你說你先輩的那半天我就把他趕走,你知道嗎?你動作和脾氣很好。謝謝你,我剛才已經說明了嘛,因為美國...沒有啦,你給我說沒有就好嘛,你給我說五分鐘,繞了五分鐘,叫我給你看。謝謝。\n459053\t465556\t啊 他們這樣是不不不你不知你們韓國人現在五十幾%用你這個做秘書就減落三十%我跟你說你還可以這樣做 這樣不行 這個秘書長這樣不行喔我雖然不能講說 我是基於說你是前輩喔你怎麼可以這樣給我打的都亂來了 這個實在是我不會認為我對你是上對下啦 我會跟你講理啦但你這個叫不講理啦 這不行啦好不好 這怎麼可以這樣子呢所以啊 本事要講的就是說啊 你像譬如說啊\n488325\t488846\t我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來\n513534\t518859\t這位國台、這位立法院、這位管制長、這位行政議員備詢經驗他也很豐富啊!他來到這重視不好嘛!他來報告要疑問一答!欸!如果這樣好啦!我們就假設你現在是總統啦!做好準總統好不好!你叫做總統!我問你!來到立法院算我的地頭啦!\n535000\t563830\t我問問你喔 你準備得很充分 我要你撈開啦 你怎麼這麼容易撈開的所以你要回答 你也要很謹慎你一個國家元首 我在這裡撈開 人家要就任 也不好所以 各方有所權衡 就是按照憲法的規定就來嘛憲法的條文用於有所不同 那個叫做怨計之間他故意明顯的做差別待遇嘛\n565267\t569869\t我不是這樣說 專業的人說的話 背後的人都在那裡嘛 秘書長你也專業的人嘛我們說實在為德 再來我要問你啊就是說 人們整幾天這樣討論 莫屬委員的諮詢那些 你是說到不可以把你硬拼到貼切一個喔 議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啊\n589073\t595356\t沒有一個院長會出錯,為什麼他會出錯?就很簡單,你也跟他說,你做秘書你私職你跟我說這不妙喔,你不要開玩笑喔那做到應對的人,還有事宜啊,調和定賴啊那一天是四天耶,你當作一天的新聞刷就好我今天很清,我今天很清,我今天把全部的禮物都沒收,你很厲害,你不很厲害喔\n613493\t617696\t我如果要你做我的鑽石 我跟你說 是我的個性 我不喜歡這樣嘛所以要講道理嘛 你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益 不管他叫做哪一黨嘛那不是這樣說?你只要給我點頭都不贏啦 你要不要為大家告別給我一目不睹 我如果給我告別都會打鼓就廢話 這樣對嗎?\n634770\t643437\t謝謝章偉不是啦 這樣就不好了我不是這樣的人 但是你是從我脾氣走出來的你的答詢方式 你是從我脾氣走出來的這樣怎麼可以呢要講道理嘛 到這邊備詢要講道理嘛國會擴建我相信在上一次啊那個 報告章偉 不是我拖時間你很清楚 那耽誤了五分鐘的時間喔你想要怎麼回立法院裡面大家在講說 很多委員故意好像故意要講得很長哪是\n663496\t670420\t國務院長在的時候我相信他對整個國會都擴建的這個部分不管前陣還在擴建很關心你注意把他看跳到下一張你看我們這個現在是這樣我們這個在接受的時候你看國民黨的助力有人塞下去整個國會分散多處嘛繼續看這是我們國會的地圖你再看看國外\n691869\t693150\t這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃讓國會更有尊嚴我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服我們立法院自己\n712540\t733232\t沒有受到民眾的尊重,就是我們表現得不好所以要講這個,不然民意會有反彈但是,國會去做擴建,其實也有它的一個必要性我看是一個新的議長起來,跟你們起來之後,你們這個議題都沒有了我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作,有沒有在努力但秘書長,這個也是你的職責,好不好\n736714\t758240\t我大概簡單一分鐘跟專委員報告因為我在接待公督門的時候他們也有提啦那因為我來以後我也知道有委員有院長在後面也有說明啦那所以要繼續這一件要繼續我也跟院長稍微有報告過\n760549\t765652\t是啦,我是希望你對韓院長盡力的去輔佐他啦畢竟他個性小鹿鹿啦,你知道嗎?那人很醜的啦,要小小啦,你還要控制一下人真的啊,他人氣那麼高,幹個一個立法院長,他其實可以幹得很出色的啊但問題是像這樣的一個爭議,讓他這樣子延燒\n783902\t806602\t不要以為真的他有得力傷害到整個立法院也不好啦有細膩啦有細膩啦所以你們要好好去做一個補救總統到國會裡面來我相信任何的總統他都很想踏進立法院過去沒有進來有他的一個歷史的一個嚴格立法院要改不改嘛那憲法裡面的一個規定放在那\n807762\t818344\t好 好啊 大家去做一個研究 我相信 其實道理很清楚啦 期待秘書長領抓 備詢 沒有這種事 沒有叫國會議員自己去看那是我咧 我脾氣算不錯 別人就這樣把你騙了 我跟你說 會不會讓你這樣 不然這樣啦 OK你這個算先輩的人 還可以這樣處理事情 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請兩位秘書長兩大秘書長我想我來繼續延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問來就教兩位秘書長針對總統到立法院來進行這個國情的一個報告其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在這個各種論點\n都互有攻防其實也經過相當的一個討 充分的一個討論其實最喜歡讓希望這個總統尤其是賴清德總統到立法院來這個地方做國情報告的我看就是\n曾經講過必生一生只監督一個人這個謝榮介跟他的必雕所以我知道他很期待但是我要提出來的就是說從1992年修憲以後按照中華民國憲法政修條文第11條第三項國民大會集會的時候得聽取\n總統的國情報告並檢討國事提供建言如果一年內沒有去集會以後總統召集臨時會為之並不受憲法第30條的一個限制我就來請教兩位秘書長就是說其實憲法就是國之根本大法憲法是一個抽象性的一個規範就一個國家體制的一個運作\n約束執政者的權利\n都會有他的重要意義啊尤其涉及到機關之間行政部門他的用語還有涉及到跟對立法院之間相互之間權益關係啊秘書長你是很隱晦的說用語不同這個其實是嚴重啦所謂的用語不同就是說你如果給我違反這就叫做違憲了啦那不是這樣說那內行人就說內行威嘛\n其實因為我教立法系數的教了幾十年啦是嘛那因為的情況上其實這因為因為我今天來報告來委員會叫我來報告是建議啦\n是啦,我聽你的意見,我告訴你,我絕對不會說,你這個算先輩,我問我沒關係,我比你,我在典館,你會對,上台下我不會這樣淫威啦但是啊,總是啊,在這,從你的意見講出來,這就沒關係,憲法跟運氣之間,一個字,不同,那都有它特殊的意義啦\n我認為這兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法那其實你再去把它看看你看到了 隔年1993年1月4號國民大會第二次在會議的時候李登輝前總統去建立總統向國民大會國情報告的一個慣例在1996年總統職權以後 當年都去\n1992年到1999年去了7次通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後你前總統去做綜合的一個答覆當時候我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛什麼急問急答必須答覆這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦\n第一個 憲法也沒規定啦第二個 翻遍你的條文也沒有這樣的一個規定啦那在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前當時的國民大會能握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權利啊並且由國民大會中國大代表來提出選出當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責這當然看法會有所不同啊但是在規範上啊\n其實沒有這樣的規定 但李前總統能基於尊重 前往國民大會去進行國情的一個報告那國民大會當初也沒有 我請到總秘書長就說 南部齁 也沒關係 不然我們看白的國家有這樣的規定嗎不然你跟他說白的國家 搞 說總統去 說我們來疑問義大利 你怎麼看過這個我是比較 比較沒學識啦 沒見聞啦 但是我很少看過\n我們大概我們法治局有做了今天的我來做專題報告我們法治局有特別做了一個表我想中委也看過所以在裡面就已經對於有對於國情這一個報告的部分大概幾個國家大概中委可以看裡面很清楚在裡面\n我問你說有沒有,你為什麼叫我去看,你這樣也不好,你這個老性格這樣不好,你如果這樣別人問你就去被罵,我告訴你每一個人的問政風格、個性不同,我就不能這樣,什麼我問你,你為什麼叫我去看,這樣會中,有沒有啦,你覺得看過啦,我才請教啦,不然我給你洗奶啦\n為什麼我帶專題報告這個部分 因為其實莊委員我們也非常久在院裡面我只這樣說明 因為如果以我個人在教書的立場\n沒有啦,我問你有沒有看過,你告訴我教書立場,你叫我去看看,國民黨、財黨、藍營、孫立就叫他們教師,我跟你說,我跟你不感動,我對你算很尊重的謝謝你,謝謝你,因為委員也看到美國、法國的力度在裡面嘛是啦,有沒有啦,我問你有沒有什麼,你說在裡面,在裡面是有還是沒有,你寫你自己算不知道\n我這樣說明啦,因為現行的秘書長,你叫他立法院的秘書長,你若要用這個方式,我是跟你尊重喔\n莊瑞雄你不要去報告秘書長以後大家都誤會你 說你中華民國秘書長都這樣說你自己去看 啊有那樣的事情你這樣不行啦 你是老先鋼那我要這樣說明啦 因為這個裡面\n我問他問過沒有 他跟我說五分鐘 跟我攏五分鐘時間 跟我說這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣不行啦 你是韓國瑜叫你來用這部的喔沒有 謝謝你 不然我對你們的尊重 我也有脾氣欸 你們這樣才會中什麼我問你有沒有 你跟我說叫我去看 什麼我放你裡面知道啦\n我先息怒一下,那可以直接回答嗎?沒有啦,我不是息怒啦,我是說大家有脾氣,我不要這個夢幻。你給我回答這樣,我是跟你說你先輩的那半天我就把他趕走,你知道嗎?你動作和脾氣很好。謝謝你,我剛才已經說明了嘛,因為美國...沒有啦,你給我說沒有就好嘛,你給我說五分鐘,繞了五分鐘,叫我給你看。謝謝。\n啊 他們這樣是不不不你不知你們韓國人現在五十幾%用你這個做秘書就減落三十%我跟你說你還可以這樣做 這樣不行 這個秘書長這樣不行喔我雖然不能講說 我是基於說你是前輩喔你怎麼可以這樣給我打的都亂來了 這個實在是我不會認為我對你是上對下啦 我會跟你講理啦但你這個叫不講理啦 這不行啦好不好 這怎麼可以這樣子呢所以啊 本事要講的就是說啊 你像譬如說啊\n我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來\n這位國台、這位立法院、這位管制長、這位行政議員備詢經驗他也很豐富啊!他來到這重視不好嘛!他來報告要疑問一答!欸!如果這樣好啦!我們就假設你現在是總統啦!做好準總統好不好!你叫做總統!我問你!來到立法院算我的地頭啦!\n我問問你喔 你準備得很充分 我要你撈開啦 你怎麼這麼容易撈開的所以你要回答 你也要很謹慎你一個國家元首 我在這裡撈開 人家要就任 也不好所以 各方有所權衡 就是按照憲法的規定就來嘛憲法的條文用於有所不同 那個叫做怨計之間他故意明顯的做差別待遇嘛\n我不是這樣說 專業的人說的話 背後的人都在那裡嘛 秘書長你也專業的人嘛我們說實在為德 再來我要問你啊就是說 人們整幾天這樣討論 莫屬委員的諮詢那些 你是說到不可以把你硬拼到貼切一個喔 議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啊\n沒有一個院長會出錯,為什麼他會出錯?就很簡單,你也跟他說,你做秘書你私職你跟我說這不妙喔,你不要開玩笑喔那做到應對的人,還有事宜啊,調和定賴啊那一天是四天耶,你當作一天的新聞刷就好我今天很清,我今天很清,我今天把全部的禮物都沒收,你很厲害,你不很厲害喔\n我如果要你做我的鑽石 我跟你說 是我的個性 我不喜歡這樣嘛所以要講道理嘛 你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益 不管他叫做哪一黨嘛那不是這樣說?你只要給我點頭都不贏啦 你要不要為大家告別給我一目不睹 我如果給我告別都會打鼓就廢話 這樣對嗎?\n謝謝章偉不是啦 這樣就不好了我不是這樣的人 但是你是從我脾氣走出來的你的答詢方式 你是從我脾氣走出來的這樣怎麼可以呢要講道理嘛 到這邊備詢要講道理嘛國會擴建我相信在上一次啊那個 報告章偉 不是我拖時間你很清楚 那耽誤了五分鐘的時間喔你想要怎麼回立法院裡面大家在講說 很多委員故意好像故意要講得很長哪是\n國務院長在的時候我相信他對整個國會都擴建的這個部分不管前陣還在擴建很關心你注意把他看跳到下一張你看我們這個現在是這樣我們這個在接受的時候你看國民黨的助力有人塞下去整個國會分散多處嘛繼續看這是我們國會的地圖你再看看國外\n這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃讓國會更有尊嚴我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服我們立法院自己\n沒有受到民眾的尊重,就是我們表現得不好所以要講這個,不然民意會有反彈但是,國會去做擴建,其實也有它的一個必要性我看是一個新的議長起來,跟你們起來之後,你們這個議題都沒有了我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作,有沒有在努力但秘書長,這個也是你的職責,好不好\n我大概簡單一分鐘跟專委員報告因為我在接待公督門的時候他們也有提啦那因為我來以後我也知道有委員有院長在後面也有說明啦那所以要繼續這一件要繼續我也跟院長稍微有報告過\n是啦,我是希望你對韓院長盡力的去輔佐他啦畢竟他個性小鹿鹿啦,你知道嗎?那人很醜的啦,要小小啦,你還要控制一下人真的啊,他人氣那麼高,幹個一個立法院長,他其實可以幹得很出色的啊但問題是像這樣的一個爭議,讓他這樣子延燒\n不要以為真的他有得力傷害到整個立法院也不好啦有細膩啦有細膩啦所以你們要好好去做一個補救總統到國會裡面來我相信任何的總統他都很想踏進立法院過去沒有進來有他的一個歷史的一個嚴格立法院要改不改嘛那憲法裡面的一個規定放在那\n好 好啊 大家去做一個研究 我相信 其實道理很清楚啦 期待秘書長領抓 備詢 沒有這種事 沒有叫國會議員自己去看那是我咧 我脾氣算不錯 別人就這樣把你騙了 我跟你說 會不會讓你這樣 不然這樣啦 OK你這個算先輩的人 還可以這樣處理事情 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.524 --> 00:08.285\n謝謝主席有請兩位秘書長兩大秘書長我想我來繼續延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問來就教兩位秘書長針對總統到立法院來進行這個國情的一個報告其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在這個各種論點\n\n00:27.651 --> 00:42.565\n都互有攻防其實也經過相當的一個討充分的一個討論其實最喜歡讓希望這個總統尤其是賴清德總統到立法院來這個地方做國情報告的我看就是\n\n00:44.195 --> 01:03.398\n曾經講過必生一生只監督一個人這個謝榮介跟他的必雕所以我知道他很期待但是我要提出來的就是說從1992年修憲以後按照中華民國憲法政修條文第11條第三項國民大會集會的時候得聽取\n\n01:04.399 --> 01:25.131\n總統的國情報告並檢討國事提供建言如果一年內沒有去集會以後總統召集臨時會為之並不受憲法第30條的一個限制我就來請教兩位秘書長就是說其實憲法就是國之根本大法憲法是一個抽象性的一個規範就一個國家體制的一個運作\n\n01:26.307 --> 01:27.508\n約束執政者的權利\n\n01:56.247 --> 02:10.332\n都會有他的重要意義啊尤其涉及到機關之間行政部門他的用語還有涉及到跟對立法院之間相互之間權益關係啊秘書長你是很隱晦的說用語不同這個其實是嚴重啦所謂的用語不同就是說你如果給我違反這就叫做違憲了啦那不是這樣說那內行人就說內行威嘛\n\n02:24.134 --> 02:38.608\n其實因為我教立法系數的教了幾十年啦是嘛那因為的情況上其實這因為因為我今天來報告來委員會叫我來報告是建議啦\n\n02:39.168 --> 02:42.109\n是啦,我聽你的意見,我告訴你,我絕對不會說,你這個算先輩,我問我沒關係,我比你,我在典館,你會對,上台下我不會這樣淫威啦但是啊,總是啊,在這,從你的意見講出來,這就沒關係,憲法跟運氣之間,一個字,不同,那都有它特殊的意義啦\n\n03:06.448 --> 03:25.802\n我認為這兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法那其實你再去把它看看你看到了隔年1993年1月4號國民大會第二次在會議的時候李登輝前總統去建立總統向國民大會國情報告的一個慣例在1996年總統職權以後當年都去\n\n03:30.333 --> 03:32.695\n1992年到1999年去了7次通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後你前總統去做綜合的一個答覆當時候我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛什麼急問急答必須答覆這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦\n\n03:53.052 --> 04:05.943\n第一個憲法也沒規定啦第二個翻遍你的條文也沒有這樣的一個規定啦那在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前當時的國民大會能握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權利啊並且由國民大會中國大代表來提出選出當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責這當然看法會有所不同啊但是在規範上啊\n\n04:18.593 --> 04:27.516\n其實沒有這樣的規定但李前總統能基於尊重前往國民大會去進行國情的一個報告那國民大會當初也沒有我請到總秘書長就說南部齁也沒關係不然我們看白的國家有這樣的規定嗎不然你跟他說白的國家搞說總統去說我們來疑問義大利你怎麼看過這個我是比較比較沒學識啦沒見聞啦但是我很少看過\n\n04:46.571 --> 05:12.162\n我們大概我們法治局有做了今天的我來做專題報告我們法治局有特別做了一個表我想中委也看過所以在裡面就已經對於有對於國情這一個報告的部分大概幾個國家大概中委可以看裡面很清楚在裡面\n\n05:12.722 --> 05:17.607\n我問你說有沒有,你為什麼叫我去看,你這樣也不好,你這個老性格這樣不好,你如果這樣別人問你就去被罵,我告訴你每一個人的問政風格、個性不同,我就不能這樣,什麼我問你,你為什麼叫我去看,這樣會中,有沒有啦,你覺得看過啦,我才請教啦,不然我給你洗奶啦\n\n05:32.148 --> 05:35.909\n為什麼我帶專題報告這個部分因為其實莊委員我們也非常久在院裡面我只這樣說明因為如果以我個人在教書的立場\n\n05:51.314 --> 06:14.348\n沒有啦,我問你有沒有看過,你告訴我教書立場,你叫我去看看,國民黨、財黨、藍營、孫立就叫他們教師,我跟你說,我跟你不感動,我對你算很尊重的謝謝你,謝謝你,因為委員也看到美國、法國的力度在裡面嘛是啦,有沒有啦,我問你有沒有什麼,你說在裡面,在裡面是有還是沒有,你寫你自己算不知道\n\n06:15.308 --> 06:19.695\n我這樣說明啦,因為現行的秘書長,你叫他立法院的秘書長,你若要用這個方式,我是跟你尊重喔\n\n06:27.213 --> 06:31.396\n莊瑞雄你不要去報告秘書長以後大家都誤會你說你中華民國秘書長都這樣說你自己去看啊有那樣的事情你這樣不行啦你是老先鋼那我要這樣說明啦因為這個裡面\n\n06:49.261 --> 07:01.827\n我問他問過沒有他跟我說五分鐘跟我攏五分鐘時間跟我說這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣不行啦你是韓國瑜叫你來用這部的喔沒有謝謝你不然我對你們的尊重我也有脾氣欸你們這樣才會中什麼我問你有沒有你跟我說叫我去看什麼我放你裡面知道啦\n\n07:14.105 --> 07:26.628\n我先息怒一下,那可以直接回答嗎?沒有啦,我不是息怒啦,我是說大家有脾氣,我不要這個夢幻。你給我回答這樣,我是跟你說你先輩的那半天我就把他趕走,你知道嗎?你動作和脾氣很好。謝謝你,我剛才已經說明了嘛,因為美國...沒有啦,你給我說沒有就好嘛,你給我說五分鐘,繞了五分鐘,叫我給你看。謝謝。\n\n07:39.053 --> 07:45.556\n啊他們這樣是不不不你不知你們韓國人現在五十幾%用你這個做秘書就減落三十%我跟你說你還可以這樣做這樣不行這個秘書長這樣不行喔我雖然不能講說我是基於說你是前輩喔你怎麼可以這樣給我打的都亂來了這個實在是我不會認為我對你是上對下啦我會跟你講理啦但你這個叫不講理啦這不行啦好不好這怎麼可以這樣子呢所以啊本事要講的就是說啊你像譬如說啊\n\n08:08.325 --> 08:08.846\n我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來\n\n08:33.534 --> 08:38.859\n這位國台、這位立法院、這位管制長、這位行政議員備詢經驗他也很豐富啊!他來到這重視不好嘛!他來報告要疑問一答!欸!如果這樣好啦!我們就假設你現在是總統啦!做好準總統好不好!你叫做總統!我問你!來到立法院算我的地頭啦!\n\n08:55.000 --> 09:23.830\n我問問你喔你準備得很充分我要你撈開啦你怎麼這麼容易撈開的所以你要回答你也要很謹慎你一個國家元首我在這裡撈開人家要就任也不好所以各方有所權衡就是按照憲法的規定就來嘛憲法的條文用於有所不同那個叫做怨計之間他故意明顯的做差別待遇嘛\n\n09:25.267 --> 09:29.869\n我不是這樣說專業的人說的話背後的人都在那裡嘛秘書長你也專業的人嘛我們說實在為德再來我要問你啊就是說人們整幾天這樣討論莫屬委員的諮詢那些你是說到不可以把你硬拼到貼切一個喔議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啊\n\n09:49.073 --> 09:55.356\n沒有一個院長會出錯,為什麼他會出錯?就很簡單,你也跟他說,你做秘書你私職你跟我說這不妙喔,你不要開玩笑喔那做到應對的人,還有事宜啊,調和定賴啊那一天是四天耶,你當作一天的新聞刷就好我今天很清,我今天很清,我今天把全部的禮物都沒收,你很厲害,你不很厲害喔\n\n10:13.493 --> 10:17.696\n我如果要你做我的鑽石我跟你說是我的個性我不喜歡這樣嘛所以要講道理嘛你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益不管他叫做哪一黨嘛那不是這樣說?你只要給我點頭都不贏啦你要不要為大家告別給我一目不睹我如果給我告別都會打鼓就廢話這樣對嗎?\n\n10:34.770 --> 10:43.437\n謝謝章偉不是啦這樣就不好了我不是這樣的人但是你是從我脾氣走出來的你的答詢方式你是從我脾氣走出來的這樣怎麼可以呢要講道理嘛到這邊備詢要講道理嘛國會擴建我相信在上一次啊那個報告章偉不是我拖時間你很清楚那耽誤了五分鐘的時間喔你想要怎麼回立法院裡面大家在講說很多委員故意好像故意要講得很長哪是\n\n11:03.496 --> 11:10.420\n國務院長在的時候我相信他對整個國會都擴建的這個部分不管前陣還在擴建很關心你注意把他看跳到下一張你看我們這個現在是這樣我們這個在接受的時候你看國民黨的助力有人塞下去整個國會分散多處嘛繼續看這是我們國會的地圖你再看看國外\n\n11:31.869 --> 11:33.150\n這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃讓國會更有尊嚴我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服我們立法院自己\n\n11:52.540 --> 12:13.232\n沒有受到民眾的尊重,就是我們表現得不好所以要講這個,不然民意會有反彈但是,國會去做擴建,其實也有它的一個必要性我看是一個新的議長起來,跟你們起來之後,你們這個議題都沒有了我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作,有沒有在努力但秘書長,這個也是你的職責,好不好\n\n12:16.714 --> 12:38.240\n我大概簡單一分鐘跟專委員報告因為我在接待公督門的時候他們也有提啦那因為我來以後我也知道有委員有院長在後面也有說明啦那所以要繼續這一件要繼續我也跟院長稍微有報告過\n\n12:40.549 --> 12:45.652\n是啦,我是希望你對韓院長盡力的去輔佐他啦畢竟他個性小鹿鹿啦,你知道嗎?那人很醜的啦,要小小啦,你還要控制一下人真的啊,他人氣那麼高,幹個一個立法院長,他其實可以幹得很出色的啊但問題是像這樣的一個爭議,讓他這樣子延燒\n\n13:03.902 --> 13:26.602\n不要以為真的他有得力傷害到整個立法院也不好啦有細膩啦有細膩啦所以你們要好好去做一個補救總統到國會裡面來我相信任何的總統他都很想踏進立法院過去沒有進來有他的一個歷史的一個嚴格立法院要改不改嘛那憲法裡面的一個規定放在那\n\n13:27.762 --> 13:38.344\n好好啊大家去做一個研究我相信其實道理很清楚啦期待秘書長領抓備詢沒有這種事沒有叫國會議員自己去看那是我咧我脾氣算不錯別人就這樣把你騙了我跟你說會不會讓你這樣不然這樣啦OK你這個算先輩的人還可以這樣處理事情謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.524,"end":8.285,"text":"謝謝主席 有請兩位秘書長兩大秘書長我想我來繼續延續剛剛其他委員的一些詢問來就教兩位秘書長針對總統到立法院來進行這個國情的一個報告其實這個從去年的總統大選前就熱議到現在這個各種論點"},{"start":27.651,"end":42.565,"text":"都互有攻防其實也經過相當的一個討 充分的一個討論其實最喜歡讓希望這個總統尤其是賴清德總統到立法院來這個地方做國情報告的我看就是"},{"start":44.195,"end":63.398,"text":"曾經講過必生一生只監督一個人這個謝榮介跟他的必雕所以我知道他很期待但是我要提出來的就是說從1992年修憲以後按照中華民國憲法政修條文第11條第三項國民大會集會的時候得聽取"},{"start":64.399,"end":85.131,"text":"總統的國情報告並檢討國事提供建言如果一年內沒有去集會以後總統召集臨時會為之並不受憲法第30條的一個限制我就來請教兩位秘書長就是說其實憲法就是國之根本大法憲法是一個抽象性的一個規範就一個國家體制的一個運作"},{"start":86.307,"end":87.508,"text":"約束執政者的權利"},{"start":116.247,"end":130.332,"text":"都會有他的重要意義啊尤其涉及到機關之間行政部門他的用語還有涉及到跟對立法院之間相互之間權益關係啊秘書長你是很隱晦的說用語不同這個其實是嚴重啦所謂的用語不同就是說你如果給我違反這就叫做違憲了啦那不是這樣說那內行人就說內行威嘛"},{"start":144.134,"end":158.608,"text":"其實因為我教立法系數的教了幾十年啦是嘛那因為的情況上其實這因為因為我今天來報告來委員會叫我來報告是建議啦"},{"start":159.168,"end":162.109,"text":"是啦,我聽你的意見,我告訴你,我絕對不會說,你這個算先輩,我問我沒關係,我比你,我在典館,你會對,上台下我不會這樣淫威啦但是啊,總是啊,在這,從你的意見講出來,這就沒關係,憲法跟運氣之間,一個字,不同,那都有它特殊的意義啦"},{"start":186.448,"end":205.802,"text":"我認為這兩位秘書長應該可以贊同這樣的一個說法那其實你再去把它看看你看到了 隔年1993年1月4號國民大會第二次在會議的時候李登輝前總統去建立總統向國民大會國情報告的一個慣例在1996年總統職權以後 當年都去"},{"start":210.333,"end":212.695,"text":"1992年到1999年去了7次通常國大代表發表建言完畢以後你前總統去做綜合的一個答覆當時候我相信秘書長應該很清楚嘛什麼急問急答必須答覆這樣強制性的規定也沒有啦"},{"start":233.052,"end":245.943,"text":"第一個 憲法也沒規定啦第二個 翻遍你的條文也沒有這樣的一個規定啦那在李登輝前總統繼任以後到第一次全民直選之前當時的國民大會能握有總統的選舉罷免跟修憲的權利啊並且由國民大會中國大代表來提出選出當時的總統是否要對國民大會來負責這當然看法會有所不同啊但是在規範上啊"},{"start":258.593,"end":267.516,"text":"其實沒有這樣的規定 但李前總統能基於尊重 前往國民大會去進行國情的一個報告那國民大會當初也沒有 我請到總秘書長就說 南部齁 也沒關係 不然我們看白的國家有這樣的規定嗎不然你跟他說白的國家 搞 說總統去 說我們來疑問義大利 你怎麼看過這個我是比較 比較沒學識啦 沒見聞啦 但是我很少看過"},{"start":286.571,"end":312.162,"text":"我們大概我們法治局有做了今天的我來做專題報告我們法治局有特別做了一個表我想中委也看過所以在裡面就已經對於有對於國情這一個報告的部分大概幾個國家大概中委可以看裡面很清楚在裡面"},{"start":312.722,"end":317.607,"text":"我問你說有沒有,你為什麼叫我去看,你這樣也不好,你這個老性格這樣不好,你如果這樣別人問你就去被罵,我告訴你每一個人的問政風格、個性不同,我就不能這樣,什麼我問你,你為什麼叫我去看,這樣會中,有沒有啦,你覺得看過啦,我才請教啦,不然我給你洗奶啦"},{"start":332.148,"end":335.909,"text":"為什麼我帶專題報告這個部分 因為其實莊委員我們也非常久在院裡面我只這樣說明 因為如果以我個人在教書的立場"},{"start":351.314,"end":374.348,"text":"沒有啦,我問你有沒有看過,你告訴我教書立場,你叫我去看看,國民黨、財黨、藍營、孫立就叫他們教師,我跟你說,我跟你不感動,我對你算很尊重的謝謝你,謝謝你,因為委員也看到美國、法國的力度在裡面嘛是啦,有沒有啦,我問你有沒有什麼,你說在裡面,在裡面是有還是沒有,你寫你自己算不知道"},{"start":375.308,"end":379.695,"text":"我這樣說明啦,因為現行的秘書長,你叫他立法院的秘書長,你若要用這個方式,我是跟你尊重喔"},{"start":387.213,"end":391.396,"text":"莊瑞雄你不要去報告秘書長以後大家都誤會你 說你中華民國秘書長都這樣說你自己去看 啊有那樣的事情你這樣不行啦 你是老先鋼那我要這樣說明啦 因為這個裡面"},{"start":409.261,"end":421.827,"text":"我問他問過沒有 他跟我說五分鐘 跟我攏五分鐘時間 跟我說這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣比較會中秘書長你這樣不行啦 你是韓國瑜叫你來用這部的喔沒有 謝謝你 不然我對你們的尊重 我也有脾氣欸 你們這樣才會中什麼我問你有沒有 你跟我說叫我去看 什麼我放你裡面知道啦"},{"start":434.105,"end":446.628,"text":"我先息怒一下,那可以直接回答嗎?沒有啦,我不是息怒啦,我是說大家有脾氣,我不要這個夢幻。你給我回答這樣,我是跟你說你先輩的那半天我就把他趕走,你知道嗎?你動作和脾氣很好。謝謝你,我剛才已經說明了嘛,因為美國...沒有啦,你給我說沒有就好嘛,你給我說五分鐘,繞了五分鐘,叫我給你看。謝謝。"},{"start":459.053,"end":465.556,"text":"啊 他們這樣是不不不你不知你們韓國人現在五十幾%用你這個做秘書就減落三十%我跟你說你還可以這樣做 這樣不行 這個秘書長這樣不行喔我雖然不能講說 我是基於說你是前輩喔你怎麼可以這樣給我打的都亂來了 這個實在是我不會認為我對你是上對下啦 我會跟你講理啦但你這個叫不講理啦 這不行啦好不好 這怎麼可以這樣子呢所以啊 本事要講的就是說啊 你像譬如說啊"},{"start":488.325,"end":488.846,"text":"我相信賴清德準總統也很喜歡到立法院來"},{"start":513.534,"end":518.859,"text":"這位國台、這位立法院、這位管制長、這位行政議員備詢經驗他也很豐富啊!他來到這重視不好嘛!他來報告要疑問一答!欸!如果這樣好啦!我們就假設你現在是總統啦!做好準總統好不好!你叫做總統!我問你!來到立法院算我的地頭啦!"},{"start":535,"end":563.83,"text":"我問問你喔 你準備得很充分 我要你撈開啦 你怎麼這麼容易撈開的所以你要回答 你也要很謹慎你一個國家元首 我在這裡撈開 人家要就任 也不好所以 各方有所權衡 就是按照憲法的規定就來嘛憲法的條文用於有所不同 那個叫做怨計之間他故意明顯的做差別待遇嘛"},{"start":565.267,"end":569.869,"text":"我不是這樣說 專業的人說的話 背後的人都在那裡嘛 秘書長你也專業的人嘛我們說實在為德 再來我要問你啊就是說 人們整幾天這樣討論 莫屬委員的諮詢那些 你是說到不可以把你硬拼到貼切一個喔 議事規則從以前到現在都同樣一本啊"},{"start":589.073,"end":595.356,"text":"沒有一個院長會出錯,為什麼他會出錯?就很簡單,你也跟他說,你做秘書你私職你跟我說這不妙喔,你不要開玩笑喔那做到應對的人,還有事宜啊,調和定賴啊那一天是四天耶,你當作一天的新聞刷就好我今天很清,我今天很清,我今天把全部的禮物都沒收,你很厲害,你不很厲害喔"},{"start":613.493,"end":617.696,"text":"我如果要你做我的鑽石 我跟你說 是我的個性 我不喜歡這樣嘛所以要講道理嘛 你們要維護委員之間大家共同的權益 不管他叫做哪一黨嘛那不是這樣說?你只要給我點頭都不贏啦 你要不要為大家告別給我一目不睹 我如果給我告別都會打鼓就廢話 這樣對嗎?"},{"start":634.77,"end":643.437,"text":"謝謝章偉不是啦 這樣就不好了我不是這樣的人 但是你是從我脾氣走出來的你的答詢方式 你是從我脾氣走出來的這樣怎麼可以呢要講道理嘛 到這邊備詢要講道理嘛國會擴建我相信在上一次啊那個 報告章偉 不是我拖時間你很清楚 那耽誤了五分鐘的時間喔你想要怎麼回立法院裡面大家在講說 很多委員故意好像故意要講得很長哪是"},{"start":663.496,"end":670.42,"text":"國務院長在的時候我相信他對整個國會都擴建的這個部分不管前陣還在擴建很關心你注意把他看跳到下一張你看我們這個現在是這樣我們這個在接受的時候你看國民黨的助力有人塞下去整個國會分散多處嘛繼續看這是我們國會的地圖你再看看國外"},{"start":691.869,"end":693.15,"text":"這個怎麼樣去做一個規劃讓國會更有尊嚴我相信民眾可以慢慢去說服我們立法院自己"},{"start":712.54,"end":733.232,"text":"沒有受到民眾的尊重,就是我們表現得不好所以要講這個,不然民意會有反彈但是,國會去做擴建,其實也有它的一個必要性我看是一個新的議長起來,跟你們起來之後,你們這個議題都沒有了我不知道你們私底下有沒有在運作,有沒有在努力但秘書長,這個也是你的職責,好不好"},{"start":736.714,"end":758.24,"text":"我大概簡單一分鐘跟專委員報告因為我在接待公督門的時候他們也有提啦那因為我來以後我也知道有委員有院長在後面也有說明啦那所以要繼續這一件要繼續我也跟院長稍微有報告過"},{"start":760.549,"end":765.652,"text":"是啦,我是希望你對韓院長盡力的去輔佐他啦畢竟他個性小鹿鹿啦,你知道嗎?那人很醜的啦,要小小啦,你還要控制一下人真的啊,他人氣那麼高,幹個一個立法院長,他其實可以幹得很出色的啊但問題是像這樣的一個爭議,讓他這樣子延燒"},{"start":783.902,"end":806.602,"text":"不要以為真的他有得力傷害到整個立法院也不好啦有細膩啦有細膩啦所以你們要好好去做一個補救總統到國會裡面來我相信任何的總統他都很想踏進立法院過去沒有進來有他的一個歷史的一個嚴格立法院要改不改嘛那憲法裡面的一個規定放在那"},{"start":807.762,"end":818.344,"text":"好 好啊 大家去做一個研究 我相信 其實道理很清楚啦 期待秘書長領抓 備詢 沒有這種事 沒有叫國會議員自己去看那是我咧 我脾氣算不錯 別人就這樣把你騙了 我跟你說 會不會讓你這樣 不然這樣啦 OK你這個算先輩的人 還可以這樣處理事情 謝謝"}]}}}}