{"id":150211,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150211","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052cc01978ebb8f618afc681ffd8597cae2f8ba9b0039caa7a680161a9ac653e9315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"10:04:44 - 10:17:13","影片長度":"00:12:29","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-8"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":749,"end_time":"2024-03-21T10:17:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T10:04:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":127,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（10時4分）謝謝主席，有請國安局蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：局長早安。局長，您是地緣政治的專家，我想你應該非常清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的革新還有認知作戰，在近代戰爭當中其實發揮了很大的功能，尤其是在烏俄戰爭的當中，我們發現除了軍事戰場之外，我們可以看到烏克蘭的政府、媒體還有民眾開闢了一個讓全球都非常矚目的資訊戰場。像烏克蘭過去長年以來其實也是受到俄羅斯假訊息、假新聞的攻擊，跟臺灣現在的狀況其實是非常的類似，因為臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一。","為什麼烏克蘭在戰爭的時候，能做到全民在資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰？可是他們在過去確確實實也對這些假訊息是束手無策的，尤其是在亞努科維奇當總統的時候，他就認為烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國，所以他對於這些假新聞、假訊息根本就沒有做任何的準備。一直到2014年他下臺了之後，新政府上來才正視假訊息的這個問題，他們花了8年的時間，其中他們也背負了新聞自由的壓力，關掉了3臺由俄羅斯所投資的頻道等等，他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞、假訊息，才在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰。","我想請問局長，目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞、假訊息，我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎？這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我想在這一次的俄烏戰爭過程當中，再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會，在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰，確實面臨到非常多的挑戰。就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣相關的議題，所以在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案，讓我們政府在處理跟應處假訊息的相關作業有個法源的基礎。畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理，它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論，一個是言論自由，一個就是國家安全或社會穩定，怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡，最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論，讓我們有更完整的法制規範，這大概是這幾年來政府做的第一項努力。","第二項的努力是在行政部門的部分，我們所建立起來的是一種即時通報的機制，也就是透過我們的國安團隊在社群媒體上，去查找可能相關的爭議訊息。這爭議訊息我們會依照行政院所提到的「錯、假、害」基本的原則，也就是說訊息是錯誤的、虛假的，而且對社會是有危害的，以這樣的原則來查找相關的錯假訊息，有了之後，我們會進行相關的即時的通報，讓政府的部會可以即時來應處。可以跟委員說明的是，我們現在每一週大概收到相關的爭議訊息可能都有三千多件，在三千多件裡面，我們會依它的風險程度來進行羅列高、中、低的風險程度，以及相關的爭議訊息有沒有在跨平臺的社群媒體上去散布，假如風險很高的話，我們就會移送到行政部門來做即時的處理，這個部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在應處。所以第二部分跟委員說明的是，除了法制的規範以外，就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制，來防範假訊息的擴散。","第三個部分是針對假訊息散布的相關網絡，我們會去溯源進行查找，假如相關假訊息的散播，它在內容上有傷害到相關的社會安全，或是他們用的是有問題的這種帳號去散布的話，我們也會跟各個社群平臺的經營團隊來進行溝通，請他們在最快的速度之內把假訊息來進行移除。所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明，我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的作法。"],["羅委員美玲：好，局長，如果比起烏克蘭的手段，我們會不會比較弱？會不會？我們的手段會不會比較弱？因為我們常常說我們要尊重言論自由、新聞自由等等，然後當然也被這些框住了，可是我們卻……為什麼我這一、兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較，因為我想它在近代裡面跟臺灣的種種狀況其實是非常的類似，烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞、假訊息的影響，對政府非常的不信任，我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的問題。","可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息，對於這些問題，剛剛局長你所講的三大面向好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息，我們不斷的經過TikTok、小紅書等等接收到這些假新聞，那要如何來杜絕？我在想臺灣政府要認真的來思考，曾經這麼血淋淋的認知作戰就擺在烏克蘭眼前，臺灣可以來參考、來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路。因為到目前為止本席所看到的，我們受到假新聞荼害還是非常非常的嚴重，甚至被國際的專家認定我們是全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一，所以這個部分我在想我們是不是可以來做更多？","再來，當然局長你剛剛已經有提出了很多所謂很積極的作法，我們來看，像烏俄戰爭的時候，我剛剛有說他們人民也好、媒體也好、政府也好，都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰。到目前為止，我們是看到這一點，烏克蘭的團結，他們是經由像Telegram、Twitter、Facebook，甚至TikTok，不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息，它也把這些平臺當作是反擊訊息的一個平臺。比如說像Telegram，我有看到一份報導，烏克蘭的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民，因為他們人民有很多的使用者，結果他們政府就在Telegram設立了很多政府平臺來做反擊。我想請教一下，我們中央政府現在其實也禁止使用小紅書、抖音等等，可是臺灣有好幾百萬人在使用抖音、小紅書等等，那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平臺上面使用，對於所有的假新聞、假訊息，我們都沒有辦法在這些平臺上面做反擊，跟烏克蘭可以在Telegram設立他們中央政府的平臺相比較之下，我們這一部分就弱非常多，請問局長這個部分要怎麼處理呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，事實上委員很正確的指出境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰，他們主要的作戰目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知，弱化民眾對於民主社會或是政府的一些信任感，所以在怎麼應處假訊息的過程中建立起政府跟民間社會的強韌夥伴關係也是非常重要。所以委員剛剛在說明資料中也提到，怎麼樣號召全民來參加這一場所謂無煙硝的戰爭，那在這個……"],["羅委員美玲：要如何號召？因為我們很多民眾都使用抖音、小紅書，很多假新聞都充斥在當中，可是我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁，我們的問題出在這裡。"],["蔡局長明彥：我大概分兩個部分來講，就這些可能會散布虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平臺，我剛剛也跟委員說明過，我們跟這些社群平臺有一個聯絡通報的機制，只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話，相關的社群媒體平臺也會配合我們移除跟下架有問題的帳號或資訊，這是長期在努力的一個作法；第二個部分是跟民間社會有更強韌的合作關係，事實上臺灣是一個多元開放的社會，也很慶幸的，我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核中心或NGO，他們也不斷地在提醒國人要有這種對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀能力，所以後續政府這邊會在這一部份持續的跟民間社會做加強，強化民眾對於境外敵對勢力對我們進行認知作戰的戰略知覺。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好，謝謝局長。再來，我還有一個問題，其實烏克蘭在戰爭的過程當中，他們有一些通訊基礎建設是被破壞的，那時他們有跟馬斯克旗下的SpaceX尋求Starlink的服務，萬一哪一天我們臺海發生戰爭的話，那你想中共可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡？一定是我們的海底電纜，阻斷我們對外的通訊，如果到時候我們也跟馬斯克來尋求Starlink的服務，你想他會協助嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：事實上，對於緊急危難或戰事發生的通訊韌性是政府現在高度重視的一項議題，所以為了避免我們跟外離島的地下海底電纜可能遭到破壞，我們這幾年也投注相當多資源在進行相關的韌性通訊備援計畫。這大概分成兩個部分，一個是針對商業衛星通頻的擴展，這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定，讓我們的商業衛星頻道可以更豐富，第二個部分……"],["羅委員美玲：所以與其去求別人，倒不如我們自己來。我們也擔心馬斯克的親中立場，所以你覺得這部分其實滿危險的，對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，就委員提到的另外一個問題，我想解釋的是，就中低軌的衛星來講，事實上除了Starlink以外，國際上還有很多廠商提供這樣的服務，過去這兩年，我們數位部也跟其中的兩、三家的廠商，針對中低軌的衛星進行接收器的布建，讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生時的通訊韌性可以進一步強化，這些計畫都已經在推動了，可能今年布建相關的接收器會有700個以上。"],["羅委員美玲：今年就會有幾百個？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，今年就會有700個接收器來讓相關的衛星接收更為順暢。"],["羅委員美玲：所以目前我們沒有任何的計畫是要跟SpaceX這邊來合作嗎？我們現在都是……我之前看到的一些資訊，我們可能還是會跟歐洲一些國家……"],["蔡局長明彥：都有、都有廣泛地在接觸。"],["羅委員美玲：都有廣泛地接觸。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，是。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好。最主要的還是我們要提前做準備，我們當然不希望戰事發生，可是很多都是要事先做準備，尤其臺灣處在一個非常危險的位置。好，以上謝謝局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（陳委員永康代）：我們請徐巧芯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","徐巧芯","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","林楚茵","洪申翰","賴士葆","陳冠廷","邱志偉","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃仁","黃捷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150211","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150211","tool":"pyannote","id":"150211-pyannote"},"job_id":"8OhMBrRHk50AqDaJ","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 155.046, \"end\": 155.126, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 155.126, \"end\": 155.186, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 155.186, \"end\": 155.466, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 155.466, \"end\": 155.826, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 155.826, \"end\": 156.067, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 156.067, \"end\": 156.327, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 156.327, \"end\": 156.567, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 156.567, \"end\": 156.727, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 156.727, \"end\": 157.287, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 157.287, \"end\": 157.407, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 182.398, \"end\": 182.458, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 182.458, \"end\": 182.478, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 197.892, \"end\": 198.032, \"text\": \"﹚羅美玲﹚\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 197.892, \"end\": 198.012, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 198.012, \"end\": 198.032, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹚\"}]}, {\"start\": 220.64, \"end\": 240.067, \"text\": \"那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 220.64, \"end\": 220.76, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 220.76, \"end\": 221.22, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 221.22, \"end\": 221.36, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 221.36, \"end\": 221.66, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 235.285, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 235.285, \"end\": 235.445, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 235.445, \"end\": 235.865, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 235.865, \"end\": 236.126, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 236.126, \"end\": 236.386, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 236.386, \"end\": 236.686, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 236.686, \"end\": 237.166, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 237.166, \"end\": 237.306, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 237.306, \"end\": 237.446, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 237.446, \"end\": 237.626, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 237.626, \"end\": 237.846, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 237.846, \"end\": 238.286, \"score\": 0.857}, 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0.726}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 747.93, \"end\": 748.01, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 748.01, \"end\": 748.11, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 748.11, \"end\": 748.13, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,228 --> 00:00:05,013\n謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長\n\n2\n00:00:10,014 --> 00:00:29,904\n好謝謝主席羅委員長局長早安局長您是這個地緣政治的這個專家我想您應該非常的這個清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的這個革新還有這個認知作戰是近代戰爭當中其實它發揮了很大的這個功能尤其是在烏鴉戰爭的當中我們發現除了軍事\n\n3\n00:00:33,166 --> 00:00:33,906\n臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一\n\n4\n00:01:01,736 --> 00:01:09,420\n好那像俄羅斯為什麼在戰爭的時候能做到全民在這個資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰那可是呢他們在過去呢確確實實呢也被這些假訊息呢其實是束手無策的尤其是在這個亞努科維奇在當總統的時候他就認為說烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國\n\n5\n00:01:26,468 --> 00:01:53,310\n所以他對於這些假新聞假訊息他根本就沒有做任何的準備一直到2014年他下台了之後新政府上來才正視這個假訊息的這個問題他們花了8年的時間那其中的他們也背負了這個就是新聞自由的這個壓力關掉了三台由這個俄羅斯所投資的這個頻道等等\n\n6\n00:01:55,471 --> 00:02:17,742\n他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞假信息才有在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰我想請問局長目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞假信息我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係\n\n7\n00:02:18,963 --> 00:02:34,285\n對我想在這次的俄烏戰爭過程當中再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰確實面臨到非常多的挑戰那就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣的一個相關的議題\n\n8\n00:02:35,046 --> 00:03:01,838\n所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範\n\n9\n00:03:02,398 --> 00:03:02,478\n：羅美玲\n\n10\n00:03:17,892 --> 00:03:18,032\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n\n11\n00:03:40,640 --> 00:04:00,067\n那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出\n\n12\n00:04:00,467 --> 00:04:25,440\n所以第二部分跟委員說明的是除了法制的規範以外就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制來防範假訊息的擴散第三個部分是針對假訊息散佈的一個相關的網絡那我們會去溯源進行查找那假如相關的假訊息的散佈他在內容上有傷害到相關的一個社會的安全或是他們用的是那一種有問題的這種\n\n13\n00:04:26,741 --> 00:04:29,664\n所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明一下我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的做法\n\n14\n00:04:46,138 --> 00:05:12,345\n好局長如果比起烏克蘭的這個手段我們會不會比較弱會不會我們這手段會比較弱因為我們常常要說我們要尊重言論自由新聞自由等等然後當然也被了這些框住了可是我們卻因為為什麼我們會我這一兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較因為他我在想他在近代裡面跟台灣的這個種種狀況其實是非常的類似\n\n15\n00:05:12,845 --> 00:05:31,076\n那烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞假訊息的影響對政府非常的不信任我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的這個問題那可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息這個地方這些問題\n\n16\n00:05:35,498 --> 00:05:58,484\n好像目前剛剛那個局長你所講的三大面相好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息我們不斷的經過tiktok小紅帽等等接收到這些假新聞那如何會來杜絕這個我在想臺灣政府要來認真的來思考烏克蘭曾經這麼血淋淋的\n\n17\n00:05:59,697 --> 00:06:22,053\n這些認知作戰就擺在眼前臺灣可以來參考來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路因為到目前為止本席所看到的我們受到假新聞徒害還是非常非常的嚴重甚至被國際的專家認定為我們是在全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一\n\n18\n00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:41,390\n對於這個部分我是想我們是不是可以來做的更多那再來局長當然你剛剛已經有提出了很多的這個我們所謂的積極的這個做法我們來看在像這個烏俄戰爭的時候我剛有說他們人民也好媒體也好\n\n19\n00:06:42,771 --> 00:07:05,319\n政府也好都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰好到目前為止我們是看到的這一點好烏克蘭的團結那他們是經由像這個telegramtwitterfacebook甚至tiktok那不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息好那他也把這些平台當作是反擊的反擊訊息的一個平台\n\n20\n00:07:06,621 --> 00:07:27,068\n那比如說像Telegram我有看到一份報道就是烏克蘭他們的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民因為他們人民有很大的使用者結果呢他們政府就在Telegram他們設立了很多所謂的政府平台來做反擊\n\n21\n00:07:28,228 --> 00:07:55,238\n我想請教一下像我們現在中央政府其實也禁止使用小紅書啊像那個抖音啊等等那可是台灣有好幾百萬的這個台灣人在使用這個抖音小紅書等等那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平台上面使用所有的假新聞假訊息我們都沒有辦法在這些平台上面做反擊\n\n22\n00:07:56,494 --> 00:08:00,719\n對事實上我想委員很正確的指出來了就境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰他主要的作戰的目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知\n\n23\n00:08:18,618 --> 00:08:18,758\n：羅美玲\n\n24\n00:08:40,126 --> 00:08:41,106\n我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁我們的問題出在這裡\n\n25\n00:08:57,182 --> 00:09:23,316\n我大概分兩個部分來講就這些可能會散佈虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平台我剛剛也跟委員說明過我們跟這些社群平台是有一個聯絡通報的機制那只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話相關的社群媒體平台也會配合我們來移除跟下架相關有問題的帳號或資訊這是有一個一直長期在努力的一個做法第二部分是跟\n\n26\n00:09:24,577 --> 00:09:51,876\n民間社會更強韌的合作關係那事實上台灣是一個多元開放的社會那也很慶幸的我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核的中心或相關的NGO那他們也不斷的在提醒國人要有這種所謂對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀的一個能力所以後續我們會政府這邊會持續的來跟民間社會在這個部分持續的來加強來強化我們民眾對於\n\n27\n00:09:54,057 --> 00:09:58,760\n其實烏克蘭他們在這個戰爭的過程當中他們有些通訊的基礎建設其實是被破壞的那時候他們有跟那個馬斯克他旗下的SpaceX有尋求這個斯大林的這個服務\n\n28\n00:10:19,552 --> 00:10:30,618\n那如果是說我們如果台海發生戰爭的話萬一哪一天那你想嘛中共他可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡\n\n29\n00:10:31,735 --> 00:10:37,759\n實際上這部分對於緊急危難或暫時發生的通訊韌性那是政府現在非常重視高度重視的一項議題所以為了來避免到可能我們的跟外離島的地下海底電纜遭到破壞\n\n30\n00:10:58,792 --> 00:11:21,267\n我們這幾年也投注相當多的資源在進行相關的韌性的一個通訊的備援的計畫那這大概有分兩個部分一個是針對相關的商業衛星通頻的擴展那這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定來讓我們的商業衛星的頻道可以更豐富所以以期求別人倒不如我們自己來說嗎所以也擔心馬斯克的立場親中立場所以你覺得說這部分的話其實蠻危險的對不對\n\n31\n00:11:26,511 --> 00:11:54,607\n對沒有那就委員提到的另外一個問題是我想解釋的是就中低軌的衛星來講那事實上除了STARLINK以外國際上還有很多的廠商提供這樣的服務那過去這兩年我們數位部也跟其中的大概有兩三家的廠商針對中低軌的衛星來進行相關的接收器的部件讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生的時候通信韌性可以進一步的強化這些計畫都已經在推動了可能在今年部件的相關接收器都會有幾百個以上\n\n32\n00:11:55,487 --> 00:11:55,808\n對,都有廣泛的接觸．\n\n33\n00:12:17,313 --> 00:12:28,130\n最主要還是說我們還是提前做準備我們當然不希望說暫時發聲可是很多都是要事先做準備尤其是台灣處在一個非常危險的一個位置好以上謝謝局長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1228\t5013\t謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長\n10014\t29904\t好謝謝主席羅委員長局長早安局長您是這個地緣政治的這個專家我想您應該非常的這個清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的這個革新還有這個認知作戰是近代戰爭當中其實它發揮了很大的這個功能尤其是在烏鴉戰爭的當中我們發現除了軍事\n33166\t33906\t臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一\n61736\t69420\t好那像俄羅斯為什麼在戰爭的時候能做到全民在這個資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰那可是呢他們在過去呢確確實實呢也被這些假訊息呢其實是束手無策的尤其是在這個亞努科維奇在當總統的時候他就認為說烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國\n86468\t113310\t所以他對於這些假新聞假訊息他根本就沒有做任何的準備一直到2014年他下台了之後新政府上來才正視這個假訊息的這個問題他們花了8年的時間那其中的他們也背負了這個就是新聞自由的這個壓力關掉了三台由這個俄羅斯所投資的這個頻道等等\n115471\t137742\t他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞假信息才有在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰我想請問局長目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞假信息我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係\n138963\t154285\t對我想在這次的俄烏戰爭過程當中再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰確實面臨到非常多的挑戰那就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣的一個相關的議題\n155046\t181838\t所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範\n182398\t182478\t：羅美玲\n197892\t198032\t﹚羅美玲﹚\n220640\t240067\t那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出\n240467\t265440\t所以第二部分跟委員說明的是除了法制的規範以外就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制來防範假訊息的擴散第三個部分是針對假訊息散佈的一個相關的網絡那我們會去溯源進行查找那假如相關的假訊息的散佈他在內容上有傷害到相關的一個社會的安全或是他們用的是那一種有問題的這種\n266741\t269664\t所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明一下我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的做法\n286138\t312345\t好局長如果比起烏克蘭的這個手段我們會不會比較弱會不會我們這手段會比較弱因為我們常常要說我們要尊重言論自由新聞自由等等然後當然也被了這些框住了可是我們卻因為為什麼我們會我這一兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較因為他我在想他在近代裡面跟台灣的這個種種狀況其實是非常的類似\n312845\t331076\t那烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞假訊息的影響對政府非常的不信任我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的這個問題那可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息這個地方這些問題\n335498\t358484\t好像目前剛剛那個局長你所講的三大面相好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息我們不斷的經過tiktok小紅帽等等接收到這些假新聞那如何會來杜絕這個我在想臺灣政府要來認真的來思考烏克蘭曾經這麼血淋淋的\n359697\t382053\t這些認知作戰就擺在眼前臺灣可以來參考來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路因為到目前為止本席所看到的我們受到假新聞徒害還是非常非常的嚴重甚至被國際的專家認定為我們是在全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一\n383133\t401390\t對於這個部分我是想我們是不是可以來做的更多那再來局長當然你剛剛已經有提出了很多的這個我們所謂的積極的這個做法我們來看在像這個烏俄戰爭的時候我剛有說他們人民也好媒體也好\n402771\t425319\t政府也好都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰好到目前為止我們是看到的這一點好烏克蘭的團結那他們是經由像這個telegram twitter facebook甚至tiktok那不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息好那他也把這些平台當作是反擊的反擊訊息的一個平台\n426621\t447068\t那比如說像Telegram我有看到一份報道就是烏克蘭他們的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民因為他們人民有很大的使用者結果呢他們政府就在Telegram他們設立了很多所謂的政府平台來做反擊\n448228\t475238\t我想請教一下像我們現在中央政府其實也禁止使用小紅書啊像那個抖音啊等等那可是台灣有好幾百萬的這個台灣人在使用這個抖音小紅書等等那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平台上面使用所有的假新聞假訊息我們都沒有辦法在這些平台上面做反擊\n476494\t480719\t對事實上我想委員很正確的指出來了就境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰他主要的作戰的目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知\n498618\t498758\t：羅美玲\n520126\t521106\t我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁我們的問題出在這裡\n537182\t563316\t我大概分兩個部分來講就這些可能會散佈虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平台我剛剛也跟委員說明過我們跟這些社群平台是有一個聯絡通報的機制那只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話相關的社群媒體平台也會配合我們來移除跟下架相關有問題的帳號或資訊這是有一個一直長期在努力的一個做法第二部分是跟\n564577\t591876\t民間社會更強韌的合作關係那事實上台灣是一個多元開放的社會那也很慶幸的我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核的中心或相關的NGO那他們也不斷的在提醒國人要有這種所謂對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀的一個能力所以後續我們會政府這邊會持續的來跟民間社會在這個部分持續的來加強來強化我們民眾對於\n594057\t598760\t其實烏克蘭他們在這個戰爭的過程當中他們有些通訊的基礎建設其實是被破壞的那時候他們有跟那個馬斯克他旗下的SpaceX有尋求這個斯大林的這個服務\n619552\t630618\t那如果是說我們如果台海發生戰爭的話萬一哪一天那你想嘛中共他可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡\n631735\t637759\t實際上這部分對於緊急危難或暫時發生的通訊韌性那是政府現在非常重視高度重視的一項議題所以為了來避免到可能我們的跟外離島的地下海底電纜遭到破壞\n658792\t681267\t我們這幾年也投注相當多的資源在進行相關的韌性的一個通訊的備援的計畫那這大概有分兩個部分一個是針對相關的商業衛星通頻的擴展那這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定來讓我們的商業衛星的頻道可以更豐富所以以期求別人倒不如我們自己來說嗎所以也擔心馬斯克的立場親中立場所以你覺得說這部分的話其實蠻危險的對不對\n686511\t714607\t對沒有那就委員提到的另外一個問題是我想解釋的是就中低軌的衛星來講那事實上除了STARLINK以外國際上還有很多的廠商提供這樣的服務那過去這兩年我們數位部也跟其中的大概有兩三家的廠商針對中低軌的衛星來進行相關的接收器的部件讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生的時候通信韌性可以進一步的強化這些計畫都已經在推動了可能在今年部件的相關接收器都會有幾百個以上\n715487\t715808\t對,都有廣泛的接觸．\n737313\t748130\t最主要還是說我們還是提前做準備我們當然不希望說暫時發聲可是很多都是要事先做準備尤其是台灣處在一個非常危險的一個位置好以上謝謝局長謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長\n好謝謝主席羅委員長局長早安局長您是這個地緣政治的這個專家我想您應該非常的這個清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的這個革新還有這個認知作戰是近代戰爭當中其實它發揮了很大的這個功能尤其是在烏鴉戰爭的當中我們發現除了軍事\n臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一\n好那像俄羅斯為什麼在戰爭的時候能做到全民在這個資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰那可是呢他們在過去呢確確實實呢也被這些假訊息呢其實是束手無策的尤其是在這個亞努科維奇在當總統的時候他就認為說烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國\n所以他對於這些假新聞假訊息他根本就沒有做任何的準備一直到2014年他下台了之後新政府上來才正視這個假訊息的這個問題他們花了8年的時間那其中的他們也背負了這個就是新聞自由的這個壓力關掉了三台由這個俄羅斯所投資的這個頻道等等\n他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞假信息才有在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰我想請問局長目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞假信息我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係\n對我想在這次的俄烏戰爭過程當中再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰確實面臨到非常多的挑戰那就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣的一個相關的議題\n所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範\n：羅美玲\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出\n所以第二部分跟委員說明的是除了法制的規範以外就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制來防範假訊息的擴散第三個部分是針對假訊息散佈的一個相關的網絡那我們會去溯源進行查找那假如相關的假訊息的散佈他在內容上有傷害到相關的一個社會的安全或是他們用的是那一種有問題的這種\n所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明一下我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的做法\n好局長如果比起烏克蘭的這個手段我們會不會比較弱會不會我們這手段會比較弱因為我們常常要說我們要尊重言論自由新聞自由等等然後當然也被了這些框住了可是我們卻因為為什麼我們會我這一兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較因為他我在想他在近代裡面跟台灣的這個種種狀況其實是非常的類似\n那烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞假訊息的影響對政府非常的不信任我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的這個問題那可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息這個地方這些問題\n好像目前剛剛那個局長你所講的三大面相好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息我們不斷的經過tiktok小紅帽等等接收到這些假新聞那如何會來杜絕這個我在想臺灣政府要來認真的來思考烏克蘭曾經這麼血淋淋的\n這些認知作戰就擺在眼前臺灣可以來參考來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路因為到目前為止本席所看到的我們受到假新聞徒害還是非常非常的嚴重甚至被國際的專家認定為我們是在全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一\n對於這個部分我是想我們是不是可以來做的更多那再來局長當然你剛剛已經有提出了很多的這個我們所謂的積極的這個做法我們來看在像這個烏俄戰爭的時候我剛有說他們人民也好媒體也好\n政府也好都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰好到目前為止我們是看到的這一點好烏克蘭的團結那他們是經由像這個telegram twitter facebook甚至tiktok那不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息好那他也把這些平台當作是反擊的反擊訊息的一個平台\n那比如說像Telegram我有看到一份報道就是烏克蘭他們的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民因為他們人民有很大的使用者結果呢他們政府就在Telegram他們設立了很多所謂的政府平台來做反擊\n我想請教一下像我們現在中央政府其實也禁止使用小紅書啊像那個抖音啊等等那可是台灣有好幾百萬的這個台灣人在使用這個抖音小紅書等等那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平台上面使用所有的假新聞假訊息我們都沒有辦法在這些平台上面做反擊\n對事實上我想委員很正確的指出來了就境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰他主要的作戰的目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知\n：羅美玲\n我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁我們的問題出在這裡\n我大概分兩個部分來講就這些可能會散佈虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平台我剛剛也跟委員說明過我們跟這些社群平台是有一個聯絡通報的機制那只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話相關的社群媒體平台也會配合我們來移除跟下架相關有問題的帳號或資訊這是有一個一直長期在努力的一個做法第二部分是跟\n民間社會更強韌的合作關係那事實上台灣是一個多元開放的社會那也很慶幸的我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核的中心或相關的NGO那他們也不斷的在提醒國人要有這種所謂對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀的一個能力所以後續我們會政府這邊會持續的來跟民間社會在這個部分持續的來加強來強化我們民眾對於\n其實烏克蘭他們在這個戰爭的過程當中他們有些通訊的基礎建設其實是被破壞的那時候他們有跟那個馬斯克他旗下的SpaceX有尋求這個斯大林的這個服務\n那如果是說我們如果台海發生戰爭的話萬一哪一天那你想嘛中共他可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡\n實際上這部分對於緊急危難或暫時發生的通訊韌性那是政府現在非常重視高度重視的一項議題所以為了來避免到可能我們的跟外離島的地下海底電纜遭到破壞\n我們這幾年也投注相當多的資源在進行相關的韌性的一個通訊的備援的計畫那這大概有分兩個部分一個是針對相關的商業衛星通頻的擴展那這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定來讓我們的商業衛星的頻道可以更豐富所以以期求別人倒不如我們自己來說嗎所以也擔心馬斯克的立場親中立場所以你覺得說這部分的話其實蠻危險的對不對\n對沒有那就委員提到的另外一個問題是我想解釋的是就中低軌的衛星來講那事實上除了STARLINK以外國際上還有很多的廠商提供這樣的服務那過去這兩年我們數位部也跟其中的大概有兩三家的廠商針對中低軌的衛星來進行相關的接收器的部件讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生的時候通信韌性可以進一步的強化這些計畫都已經在推動了可能在今年部件的相關接收器都會有幾百個以上\n對,都有廣泛的接觸．\n最主要還是說我們還是提前做準備我們當然不希望說暫時發聲可是很多都是要事先做準備尤其是台灣處在一個非常危險的一個位置好以上謝謝局長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.228 --> 00:05.013\n謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長\n\n00:10.014 --> 00:29.904\n好謝謝主席羅委員長局長早安局長您是這個地緣政治的這個專家我想您應該非常的這個清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的這個革新還有這個認知作戰是近代戰爭當中其實它發揮了很大的這個功能尤其是在烏鴉戰爭的當中我們發現除了軍事\n\n00:33.166 --> 00:33.906\n臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一\n\n01:01.736 --> 01:09.420\n好那像俄羅斯為什麼在戰爭的時候能做到全民在這個資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰那可是呢他們在過去呢確確實實呢也被這些假訊息呢其實是束手無策的尤其是在這個亞努科維奇在當總統的時候他就認為說烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國\n\n01:26.468 --> 01:53.310\n所以他對於這些假新聞假訊息他根本就沒有做任何的準備一直到2014年他下台了之後新政府上來才正視這個假訊息的這個問題他們花了8年的時間那其中的他們也背負了這個就是新聞自由的這個壓力關掉了三台由這個俄羅斯所投資的這個頻道等等\n\n01:55.471 --> 02:17.742\n他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞假信息才有在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰我想請問局長目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞假信息我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係\n\n02:18.963 --> 02:34.285\n對我想在這次的俄烏戰爭過程當中再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰確實面臨到非常多的挑戰那就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣的一個相關的議題\n\n02:35.046 --> 03:01.838\n所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範\n\n03:02.398 --> 03:02.478\n：羅美玲\n\n03:17.892 --> 03:18.032\n﹚羅美玲﹚\n\n03:40.640 --> 04:00.067\n那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出\n\n04:00.467 --> 04:25.440\n所以第二部分跟委員說明的是除了法制的規範以外就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制來防範假訊息的擴散第三個部分是針對假訊息散佈的一個相關的網絡那我們會去溯源進行查找那假如相關的假訊息的散佈他在內容上有傷害到相關的一個社會的安全或是他們用的是那一種有問題的這種\n\n04:26.741 --> 04:29.664\n所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明一下我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的做法\n\n04:46.138 --> 05:12.345\n好局長如果比起烏克蘭的這個手段我們會不會比較弱會不會我們這手段會比較弱因為我們常常要說我們要尊重言論自由新聞自由等等然後當然也被了這些框住了可是我們卻因為為什麼我們會我這一兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較因為他我在想他在近代裡面跟台灣的這個種種狀況其實是非常的類似\n\n05:12.845 --> 05:31.076\n那烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞假訊息的影響對政府非常的不信任我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的這個問題那可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息這個地方這些問題\n\n05:35.498 --> 05:58.484\n好像目前剛剛那個局長你所講的三大面相好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息我們不斷的經過tiktok小紅帽等等接收到這些假新聞那如何會來杜絕這個我在想臺灣政府要來認真的來思考烏克蘭曾經這麼血淋淋的\n\n05:59.697 --> 06:22.053\n這些認知作戰就擺在眼前臺灣可以來參考來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路因為到目前為止本席所看到的我們受到假新聞徒害還是非常非常的嚴重甚至被國際的專家認定為我們是在全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一\n\n06:23.133 --> 06:41.390\n對於這個部分我是想我們是不是可以來做的更多那再來局長當然你剛剛已經有提出了很多的這個我們所謂的積極的這個做法我們來看在像這個烏俄戰爭的時候我剛有說他們人民也好媒體也好\n\n06:42.771 --> 07:05.319\n政府也好都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰好到目前為止我們是看到的這一點好烏克蘭的團結那他們是經由像這個telegramtwitterfacebook甚至tiktok那不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息好那他也把這些平台當作是反擊的反擊訊息的一個平台\n\n07:06.621 --> 07:27.068\n那比如說像Telegram我有看到一份報道就是烏克蘭他們的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民因為他們人民有很大的使用者結果呢他們政府就在Telegram他們設立了很多所謂的政府平台來做反擊\n\n07:28.228 --> 07:55.238\n我想請教一下像我們現在中央政府其實也禁止使用小紅書啊像那個抖音啊等等那可是台灣有好幾百萬的這個台灣人在使用這個抖音小紅書等等那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平台上面使用所有的假新聞假訊息我們都沒有辦法在這些平台上面做反擊\n\n07:56.494 --> 08:00.719\n對事實上我想委員很正確的指出來了就境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰他主要的作戰的目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知\n\n08:18.618 --> 08:18.758\n：羅美玲\n\n08:40.126 --> 08:41.106\n我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁我們的問題出在這裡\n\n08:57.182 --> 09:23.316\n我大概分兩個部分來講就這些可能會散佈虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平台我剛剛也跟委員說明過我們跟這些社群平台是有一個聯絡通報的機制那只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話相關的社群媒體平台也會配合我們來移除跟下架相關有問題的帳號或資訊這是有一個一直長期在努力的一個做法第二部分是跟\n\n09:24.577 --> 09:51.876\n民間社會更強韌的合作關係那事實上台灣是一個多元開放的社會那也很慶幸的我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核的中心或相關的NGO那他們也不斷的在提醒國人要有這種所謂對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀的一個能力所以後續我們會政府這邊會持續的來跟民間社會在這個部分持續的來加強來強化我們民眾對於\n\n09:54.057 --> 09:58.760\n其實烏克蘭他們在這個戰爭的過程當中他們有些通訊的基礎建設其實是被破壞的那時候他們有跟那個馬斯克他旗下的SpaceX有尋求這個斯大林的這個服務\n\n10:19.552 --> 10:30.618\n那如果是說我們如果台海發生戰爭的話萬一哪一天那你想嘛中共他可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡\n\n10:31.735 --> 10:37.759\n實際上這部分對於緊急危難或暫時發生的通訊韌性那是政府現在非常重視高度重視的一項議題所以為了來避免到可能我們的跟外離島的地下海底電纜遭到破壞\n\n10:58.792 --> 11:21.267\n我們這幾年也投注相當多的資源在進行相關的韌性的一個通訊的備援的計畫那這大概有分兩個部分一個是針對相關的商業衛星通頻的擴展那這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定來讓我們的商業衛星的頻道可以更豐富所以以期求別人倒不如我們自己來說嗎所以也擔心馬斯克的立場親中立場所以你覺得說這部分的話其實蠻危險的對不對\n\n11:26.511 --> 11:54.607\n對沒有那就委員提到的另外一個問題是我想解釋的是就中低軌的衛星來講那事實上除了STARLINK以外國際上還有很多的廠商提供這樣的服務那過去這兩年我們數位部也跟其中的大概有兩三家的廠商針對中低軌的衛星來進行相關的接收器的部件讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生的時候通信韌性可以進一步的強化這些計畫都已經在推動了可能在今年部件的相關接收器都會有幾百個以上\n\n11:55.487 --> 11:55.808\n對,都有廣泛的接觸．\n\n12:17.313 --> 12:28.130\n最主要還是說我們還是提前做準備我們當然不希望說暫時發聲可是很多都是要事先做準備尤其是台灣處在一個非常危險的一個位置好以上謝謝局長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.228,"end":5.013,"text":"謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":10.014,"end":29.904,"text":"好謝謝主席羅委員長局長早安局長您是這個地緣政治的這個專家我想您應該非常的這個清楚通訊跟宣傳技術的這個革新還有這個認知作戰是近代戰爭當中其實它發揮了很大的這個功能尤其是在烏鴉戰爭的當中我們發現除了軍事"},{"start":33.166,"end":33.906,"text":"臺灣也是全球被假訊息攻擊非常嚴重的國家之一"},{"start":61.736,"end":69.42,"text":"好那像俄羅斯為什麼在戰爭的時候能做到全民在這個資訊戰場有這麼漂亮的一戰那可是呢他們在過去呢確確實實呢也被這些假訊息呢其實是束手無策的尤其是在這個亞努科維奇在當總統的時候他就認為說烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的附屬國"},{"start":86.468,"end":113.31,"text":"所以他對於這些假新聞假訊息他根本就沒有做任何的準備一直到2014年他下台了之後新政府上來才正視這個假訊息的這個問題他們花了8年的時間那其中的他們也背負了這個就是新聞自由的這個壓力關掉了三台由這個俄羅斯所投資的這個頻道等等"},{"start":115.471,"end":137.742,"text":"他們利用8年的時間讓烏克蘭的人民遠離這些假新聞假信息才有在戰時有這麼漂亮的一戰我想請問局長目前臺灣到底針對這些假新聞假信息我們的準備到底是足夠的嗎這跟人民的國家意識有很大的關係"},{"start":138.963,"end":154.285,"text":"對我想在這次的俄烏戰爭過程當中再次凸顯到我們自由民主開放的社會在因應境外敵對勢力的假訊息的攻擊還有認知作戰確實面臨到非常多的挑戰那就我們國家來講也高度的重視這樣的一個相關的議題"},{"start":155.046,"end":181.838,"text":"所以在過去這幾年在法制面我想也非常感謝大院在過去這幾年通過了相關的法案讓我們政府在處理跟應處相關的假訊息的相關的作業有個法源的基礎畢竟每次涉及到假訊息的處理它都會涉及到兩個重要的辯論一個是言論自由那一個就是國家安全或社會穩定那怎麼樣在兩者之間取得一個平衡最好的方法就是到立法院來進行相關的政策或法制的討論那讓我們有更完整的法制規範"},{"start":182.398,"end":182.478,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":197.892,"end":198.032,"text":"﹚羅美玲﹚"},{"start":220.64,"end":240.067,"text":"那在3000多件裡面我們會依照它的風險的程度來進行羅列高中低的風險程度以及相關的正義訊息有沒有在跨平台的社群媒體上去散佈那假如風險很高的話我們就會移送到行政部門來做及時的處理這部分每一個禮拜應該都有幾十件的案例在映出"},{"start":240.467,"end":265.44,"text":"所以第二部分跟委員說明的是除了法制的規範以外就是行政部門要建立起一個即時通報應處的機制來防範假訊息的擴散第三個部分是針對假訊息散佈的一個相關的網絡那我們會去溯源進行查找那假如相關的假訊息的散佈他在內容上有傷害到相關的一個社會的安全或是他們用的是那一種有問題的這種"},{"start":266.741,"end":269.664,"text":"所以剛剛是從三個面向來跟委員說明一下我們現在應處假訊息以及境外敵對勢力的認知作戰非常積極的做法"},{"start":286.138,"end":312.345,"text":"好局長如果比起烏克蘭的這個手段我們會不會比較弱會不會我們這手段會比較弱因為我們常常要說我們要尊重言論自由新聞自由等等然後當然也被了這些框住了可是我們卻因為為什麼我們會我這一兩次的質詢都會拿烏克蘭做比較因為他我在想他在近代裡面跟台灣的這個種種狀況其實是非常的類似"},{"start":312.845,"end":331.076,"text":"那烏克蘭的人民也曾經因為受到假新聞假訊息的影響對政府非常的不信任我想臺灣目前也是存在相同的這個問題那可是烏克蘭政府卻是用8年的時間讓人民能夠遠離這些假訊息這個地方這些問題"},{"start":335.498,"end":358.484,"text":"好像目前剛剛那個局長你所講的三大面相好像真的也沒有辦法讓我們的人民遠離這些假訊息我們不斷的經過tiktok小紅帽等等接收到這些假新聞那如何會來杜絕這個我在想臺灣政府要來認真的來思考烏克蘭曾經這麼血淋淋的"},{"start":359.697,"end":382.053,"text":"這些認知作戰就擺在眼前臺灣可以來參考來思考我們要怎麼來繼續走這條路因為到目前為止本席所看到的我們受到假新聞徒害還是非常非常的嚴重甚至被國際的專家認定為我們是在全球受到假訊息攻擊最多的國家之一"},{"start":383.133,"end":401.39,"text":"對於這個部分我是想我們是不是可以來做的更多那再來局長當然你剛剛已經有提出了很多的這個我們所謂的積極的這個做法我們來看在像這個烏俄戰爭的時候我剛有說他們人民也好媒體也好"},{"start":402.771,"end":425.319,"text":"政府也好都一起打了一場非常漂亮的資訊戰好到目前為止我們是看到的這一點好烏克蘭的團結那他們是經由像這個telegram twitter facebook甚至tiktok那不斷的跟國人還有對外喊話跟傳達訊息好那他也把這些平台當作是反擊的反擊訊息的一個平台"},{"start":426.621,"end":447.068,"text":"那比如說像Telegram我有看到一份報道就是烏克蘭他們的假訊息很大部分是經由Telegram傳播給人民因為他們人民有很大的使用者結果呢他們政府就在Telegram他們設立了很多所謂的政府平台來做反擊"},{"start":448.228,"end":475.238,"text":"我想請教一下像我們現在中央政府其實也禁止使用小紅書啊像那個抖音啊等等那可是台灣有好幾百萬的這個台灣人在使用這個抖音小紅書等等那我們中央政府又沒有辦法在這些平台上面使用所有的假新聞假訊息我們都沒有辦法在這些平台上面做反擊"},{"start":476.494,"end":480.719,"text":"對事實上我想委員很正確的指出來了就境外敵對勢力對我們的認知作戰他主要的作戰的目標就是要去影響我們民眾的認知"},{"start":498.618,"end":498.758,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":520.126,"end":521.106,"text":"我們中央政府卻沒有能力進到裡面去做反駁我們的問題出在這裡"},{"start":537.182,"end":563.316,"text":"我大概分兩個部分來講就這些可能會散佈虛假、錯假訊息的社群媒體平台我剛剛也跟委員說明過我們跟這些社群平台是有一個聯絡通報的機制那只要我們能夠證實相關的錯假訊息是會造成一些問題的話相關的社群媒體平台也會配合我們來移除跟下架相關有問題的帳號或資訊這是有一個一直長期在努力的一個做法第二部分是跟"},{"start":564.577,"end":591.876,"text":"民間社會更強韌的合作關係那事實上台灣是一個多元開放的社會那也很慶幸的我們有非常活躍的民間社團以及相關的事實查核的中心或相關的NGO那他們也不斷的在提醒國人要有這種所謂對於認知作戰相關的媒體識讀的一個能力所以後續我們會政府這邊會持續的來跟民間社會在這個部分持續的來加強來強化我們民眾對於"},{"start":594.057,"end":598.76,"text":"其實烏克蘭他們在這個戰爭的過程當中他們有些通訊的基礎建設其實是被破壞的那時候他們有跟那個馬斯克他旗下的SpaceX有尋求這個斯大林的這個服務"},{"start":619.552,"end":630.618,"text":"那如果是說我們如果台海發生戰爭的話萬一哪一天那你想嘛中共他可能第一個想要攻擊的目標是哪裡"},{"start":631.735,"end":637.759,"text":"實際上這部分對於緊急危難或暫時發生的通訊韌性那是政府現在非常重視高度重視的一項議題所以為了來避免到可能我們的跟外離島的地下海底電纜遭到破壞"},{"start":658.792,"end":681.267,"text":"我們這幾年也投注相當多的資源在進行相關的韌性的一個通訊的備援的計畫那這大概有分兩個部分一個是針對相關的商業衛星通頻的擴展那這部分已經跟很多民間企業有簽署相關的協定來讓我們的商業衛星的頻道可以更豐富所以以期求別人倒不如我們自己來說嗎所以也擔心馬斯克的立場親中立場所以你覺得說這部分的話其實蠻危險的對不對"},{"start":686.511,"end":714.607,"text":"對沒有那就委員提到的另外一個問題是我想解釋的是就中低軌的衛星來講那事實上除了STARLINK以外國際上還有很多的廠商提供這樣的服務那過去這兩年我們數位部也跟其中的大概有兩三家的廠商針對中低軌的衛星來進行相關的接收器的部件讓我們在國家發生緊急危難跟戰事發生的時候通信韌性可以進一步的強化這些計畫都已經在推動了可能在今年部件的相關接收器都會有幾百個以上"},{"start":715.487,"end":715.808,"text":"對,都有廣泛的接觸．"},{"start":737.313,"end":748.13,"text":"最主要還是說我們還是提前做準備我們當然不希望說暫時發聲可是很多都是要事先做準備尤其是台灣處在一個非常危險的一個位置好以上謝謝局長謝謝"}]}}}}