{"id":150216,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150216","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc305234c5e6ff761848bb469dd78c507e1b3ff8ba9b0039caa7a6b9131942535bd7ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"10:15:10 - 10:26:19","影片長度":"00:11:09","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":669,"end_time":"2024-03-21T10:26:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T10:15:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":448,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（10時15分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：好，請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好，部長，我想請教你，國發會在去年3月底有正式公布臺灣2050淨零排放路徑，在其中有提出打造零碳能源系統目標。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：那我想請教你，當然今天排這樣的案子，我相信很多委員都非常的關心，尤其不論是陸域風電或者是離岸風電，甚至我們現在最關心的太陽能發電，如果是在一般屋頂上的可能問題比較沒有那麼大，因為現在有很多學校或公共場域，甚至有的廠房上面都有太陽能發電嘛！大家最詬病的，我們認為是在海邊的這種陸上型、地面型的太陽能光電，因為可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈。我想請教部長，以前可能在溼地才需要做環評，就像在我的選區裡面，在農業部所主管的圳路上面也都架設了很多太陽能光電，其實都會影響到整個農村的風貌或者是景觀。那我想請教部長，如果要架設這樣的太陽能光電，第一可能會影響到當地的民眾，譬如說如果是在海面上，可能就會影響到漁民的收入；如果是在圳路的話，也會影響到整個農村的景觀。如果是在溼地才需要做環評的話，我們認為一般的民眾會覺得對環境的影響很大，我不知道未來針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去加強或者是加嚴？"],["薛部長富盛：好，非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問，的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評時，事實上，其著眼點比較偏向污染的防制，不要對當地的自然景觀或居民的生活等等造成危害，但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的，景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的元素，我看在過去整個環評的過程當中，的確比較少觸及這一點。我們在設置這些再生能源設施時，不管是風力，不管是太陽光電，它對於整個城市風貌的影響到底是怎麼樣，的確這一塊是比較沒有……"],["黃委員秀芳：其實整個農村的風貌都變了。"],["薛部長富盛：對，我覺得對這一塊環境部未來應該在環評裡面甚至是要增加這方面的委員，讓他們可以提供另外一個觀點，因為畢竟現在臺灣在國際的聲望跟知名度也非常高，來我們這裡的觀光客、國際外賓非常多，假如到臺灣以後看到我們的農村到處都是這種光電板，的確可能也有……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的考量之一？"],["薛部長富盛：是，我們來考量，包括太陽能光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境，不過我在這邊真的要跟黃委員報告，就是太陽光電板有20年的使用壽命，在用完了之後把它拆除，事實上，它對整個環境的影響是微乎其微啦！"],["黃委員秀芳：沒錯。"],["薛部長富盛：對，它的運作過程不會產生污染物還是其他方面。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["薛部長富盛：所以我想可能很多民眾有一點誤解。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，我剛剛講的就是，當然這個我認同，只是未來不論在任何地方，如果你們在海邊架設地面型的太陽能光電板，其實對漁民來講，雖然這個是你們的地，就是可能就在工業區裡面，就是工業區的土地，可是因為長期以來都沒有在使用，變成漁民抓一些貝類的一個場域，所以在把這個光電板架上去之後，可能就會影響到漁民的收入。整個光電板在這幾年真的讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕，就是覺得好像跟什麼有掛鉤，那我們當然不希望這樣子。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以第一個，如果要有這樣的地面型光電板，或是比較需要跟當地的農民或漁民溝通，我希望不論是我們的經濟部也好，或者是農業部或環境部，應該要加強溝通。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["黃委員秀芳：應該要加強溝通。另外，希望把當地的地景跟地貌應該也要融入……"],["薛部長富盛：納入考量，我個人認同。"],["黃委員秀芳：其實我覺得以前我們看到的圳路，就是溝嘛！旁邊就是樹嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：現在看起來就是整個溝上面都架設太陽能板，旁邊完全都沒有樹，其實我覺得這個對整個農村的風貌真的是完全都變了，所以我們希望這一方面真的要再去加強，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，我認同把美學的概念帶進來。"],["黃委員秀芳：如果要架設的話，因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通，就是農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛！對啊！那這樣子對當地的居民來講，其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，這一點我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部，未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫，特別在景觀以及對地方的影響還有努力的空間。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。我們希望太陽能光電板架上去之後，我們要求業者應該也要去隨時做監控，這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變，當然我們是可以要求不能因為我們架了光電板上去之後，然後整個生態是完全改變的，我不知道你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求？"],["薛部長富盛：給黃委員報告，我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過，他們事實上後續有請一些環保團體去稍微瞭解一下，事實上很多光電場域的周遭都有一些保留讓這些鳥類還是可以棲息，反而數量跟樣態是變得更豐富，所以並沒有……偶爾媒體可能有報導一些情況非常極端的，那我相信只要我們比較冷靜地去看待這個問題，當然我們也知道有一些問題那就去改，那有正面的也應該去報導，去跟大家分享，畢竟不是只有臺灣在推太陽光電，全世界再生能源、太陽光電都是很重要的一部分，特別是臺灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進，我們應該要共同來支持，當然環境永續是更重要。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。那我想請教，以目前的這個狀況，其實我們在推陸域風電也好，或是太陽能光電的設置，以目前來講，其實整個進程或者是速度好像也沒有那麼快，如果未來加嚴的話，因為地方的民眾可能會有一些抗爭或是會有一些疑慮，那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成再生能源的進程又會比較緩慢了，可能會比較慢了，這些業者也許會往國外去發展，那未來會不會影響到臺灣再生能源的發展？是不是可以先請部長回答一下？"],["薛部長富盛：這個理論上經濟部來回答更合適，不過我覺得我們環境部會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分，然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的角度。"],["黃委員秀芳：是不是請經濟部？"],["主席：來，次長請。"],["林次長全能：先謝謝委員剛剛垂詢的問題，我想經濟部的理念，推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續，這個饋讓過程當中我們一直希望設置的開發跟我們的生態、跟我們的環境都能夠融合。我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發，在設置過程之前的話，我們就排開可能的生態敏感地帶，我剛剛講說我們近海1.5海里白海豚的棲息地，我們就把它劃開。在設置過程當中，我們就遵照環評的規範去執行，所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望在推動的過程當中能夠兼顧環境的發展。我想如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的適當規範，讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話，在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的推動進展。"],["黃委員秀芳：我們當然希望臺灣的綠能推動能夠很順利，可是也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮，會有一些抗爭，當然溝通非常的重要，我們也希望能夠達到2050淨零碳排這樣的目標，真的還有很長的一段路要走，溝通真的非常重要，好不好？謝謝。"],["林次長全能：好。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝黃委員。"],["主席：謝謝。等一下王正旭委員質詢結束之後，我們休息5分鐘。請王正旭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":404,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王正旭","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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22:41:56","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 22:42:29","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150216 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:42:29","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：黃秀芳'"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:42:49","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-01 22:42:49","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 2.968, \"end\": 30.45, \"text\": \"謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 2.968, \"end\": 3.128, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 3.128, \"end\": 3.308, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 3.308, \"end\": 4.029, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, 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00:00:30,450\n謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個\n\n2\n00:00:31,691 --> 00:00:57,851\n當然我相信很多委員都非常的關心尤其是我們的這個不論是陸域風電或者是這個離岸風電甚至我們現在最關心的這個太陽能發電那如果是在一般的這個屋頂上的那個可能就比較問題比較沒有那麼大因為現在有很多的學校或者是公共場域很多甚至有的廠房上面都有這個太陽能這個發電嘛\n\n3\n00:01:00,093 --> 00:01:25,380\n那最大家最詬病的可能就是在這個一些環境我們認為可能在這個海邊的這種路上型的這種地面型的太陽能光電可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈那我想請教就是說我們這個環境部在這樣的一個\n\n4\n00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:43,797\n以前可能在濕地才需要做環評那有很多就像在我們的選區我的選區我們有關這個農業部所主管的這個郡路上面也都架設很多的這個太陽能光墊\n\n5\n00:01:44,958 --> 00:02:04,271\n那其實這個都會影響到整個農村的這個風貌或者是整個景觀那我想請教就是說如果要架設這樣的一個太陽能光墊第一可能會影響到當地的這個民眾的比如說如果是在海面上的話可能就影響到漁民的收入嗎\n\n6\n00:02:05,171 --> 00:02:29,648\n那如果說在這個峻路的話也會影響到整個農村的景觀那像我們知道說如果是在這個濕地才需要做環評的話那我不知道說這個其實對一般的這個環境我們認為一般的民眾會覺得說影響很大那我不知道說你未來好針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去做加強或者是加嚴\n\n7\n00:02:30,954 --> 00:02:51,501\n非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評事實上他的著言點比較偏向污染的防治去不要造成對當地不管是自然景觀或者居民生活等等的危害\n\n8\n00:02:52,481 --> 00:03:00,600\n但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的\n\n9\n00:03:02,011 --> 00:03:02,271\n黃秀芳議員\n\n10\n00:03:32,351 --> 00:03:52,298\n甚至是要增加這方面的委員讓他可以提供從另外一個觀點因為畢竟台灣現在在國際的聲望跟知名度也這個非常高我們的觀光客、國際外賓非常多那假如說到台灣以後看到我們包括農村到處都是這種光天板\n\n11\n00:03:52,938 --> 00:04:09,908\n的確可能也有所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的這個考量考量之一包括這個太陽光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境不過我在這邊真的跟黃委員報告就是說\n\n12\n00:04:10,828 --> 00:04:31,009\n太陽光電板它20年使用壽命完了之後把它拆除事實上它對整個環境的影響事實上是微乎其微的是沒錯就是說對它的運作過程不會產生那些污染物還是什麼各方面是所以我想這一點可能也是很多民眾還是什麼可能有一點誤解\n\n13\n00:04:32,410 --> 00:04:47,090\n所以我剛剛那個部長我剛剛講的就是說當然這個我認同只是說未來不論是在任何地方就是說如果你們在這個海邊架設這樣地面型的地面型的這樣子\n\n14\n00:04:47,871 --> 00:04:47,912\n黃秀芳議員\n\n15\n00:05:03,255 --> 00:05:03,295\n黃秀芳議員\n\n16\n00:05:23,959 --> 00:05:39,790\n整個光電板在這幾年真的我覺得也這個讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕就是說整個就覺得說好像就是跟一些什麼有掛鉤那我們當然不希望這樣子\n\n17\n00:05:40,751 --> 00:06:07,506\n所以第一個如果要有這樣的一個地面型的光電板或是在這個一些比較需要去跟當地的農民或是當地的漁民要溝通我希望不論是我們的這個經濟部也好或者是農業部或環境部應該要加強溝通另外就是說希望把這個當地的這個地景跟地貌應該也要融入我個人認同\n\n18\n00:06:10,518 --> 00:06:38,652\n其實我覺得說以前我們看到的這個郡路,郡路就是高嘛,旁邊就是樹木嘛,現在看起來就是整個高,館店就是都架設太陽能板,旁邊就完全都沒有樹齁,其實我覺得這個對整個農村的這個風貌真的是完全都變了,所以我們希望說這一方面真的要再去加強好不好,如果要架設的話,因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通嘛,\n\n19\n00:06:39,372 --> 00:07:03,490\n就是說這個農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛對啊那這樣子對當地的居民來講其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的好不好所以我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫特別在景觀以及對地方的一個影響\n\n20\n00:07:05,991 --> 00:07:24,936\n我想請教就是說我們希望就是說這個太陽能光電板架上去之後我們也要求這樣的業者他應該也要去隨時做一個監控這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變\n\n21\n00:07:26,296 --> 00:07:49,439\n我們是可以要求就是說不能因為我們架了這個光電板上去之後然後整個生態是完全改變的我不知道說你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求給黃委員報告我根據我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過他們事實上有後續有去請一些環保團體去稍微了解一下事實上很多光電\n\n22\n00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:50,820\n黃秀芳\n\n23\n00:08:11,388 --> 00:08:35,949\n只要實際我們比較冷靜的去看待這個問題當然我們也知道說有一些問題那就去改那有正面的也應該去報導去跟大家分享因為畢竟不是只有台灣在推太陽光電全世界再生能源太陽光電都是很重要的一部分特別是台灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進我們應該要共同來支持當然環境永續是更重要\n\n24\n00:08:36,429 --> 00:08:54,714\n那我想請教就是說以目前的這個狀況其實我們在推這個陸域風電也好這是這個太陽能光電的這個設置以目前來講其實整個進程或者是這個速度好像也沒有那麼快那如果未來加嚴的話因為地方的民眾可能\n\n25\n00:08:59,375 --> 00:09:15,261\n會有一些抗爭或是說會有一些疑慮那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成這個再生能源的這個進程可能又會比較緩慢了可能會比較慢了那這些業者也許他會往國外去發展會不會未來會影響到臺灣的這個再生能源的一個發展\n\n26\n00:09:20,643 --> 00:09:39,963\n是不是可以先請部長回答一下這個理論上經濟部來回答更嚴肅不過環境部我覺得我們會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的這個角度好那是不是請那個經濟部來次長請\n\n27\n00:09:46,800 --> 00:10:14,351\n好謝謝委員剛剛隨時的問題我想經濟部的理念推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續嘛那這個規範過程當中我們一直希望說這個設置的一個這個開發跟我們的生態跟我們的環境都能夠融合我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發在設置過程之前的話我們就排開可能的一個生態的一個這個敏感地帶我剛剛講說我們這個近海的1.5海浬的這個白海屯的氣息我們就把它劃開\n\n28\n00:10:15,171 --> 00:10:35,828\n那在設置過程當中我們就遵照環評的規範去執行所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望是說在推動過程當中能夠兼顧環境的一個這個發展那我想說如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的一個這個適當的規範讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的一個推動進展\n\n29\n00:10:36,408 --> 00:11:04,247\n好,我們當然希望就是說台灣的這個綠能的推動能夠很順利可是就我們也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮那會有一些抗爭那當然就是說溝通非常的重要那我們也希望就是說能夠達到這個2050這個淨零碳排能夠達到這樣的目標我是希望說我們還真的還有很長的一段路要走那溝通真的非常的重要好不好謝謝\n\n30\n00:11:07,372 --> 00:11:08,336\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2968\t30450\t謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個\n31691\t57851\t當然我相信很多委員都非常的關心尤其是我們的這個不論是陸域風電或者是這個離岸風電甚至我們現在最關心的這個太陽能發電那如果是在一般的這個屋頂上的那個可能就比較問題比較沒有那麼大因為現在有很多的學校或者是公共場域很多甚至有的廠房上面都有這個太陽能這個發電嘛\n60093\t85380\t那最大家最詬病的可能就是在這個一些環境我們認為可能在這個海邊的這種路上型的這種地面型的太陽能光電可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈那我想請教就是說我們這個環境部在這樣的一個\n86280\t103797\t以前可能在濕地才需要做環評那有很多就像在我們的選區我的選區我們有關這個農業部所主管的這個郡路上面也都架設很多的這個太陽能光墊\n104958\t124271\t那其實這個都會影響到整個農村的這個風貌或者是整個景觀那我想請教就是說如果要架設這樣的一個太陽能光墊第一可能會影響到當地的這個民眾的比如說如果是在海面上的話可能就影響到漁民的收入嗎\n125171\t149648\t那如果說在這個峻路的話也會影響到整個農村的景觀那像我們知道說如果是在這個濕地才需要做環評的話那我不知道說這個其實對一般的這個環境我們認為一般的民眾會覺得說影響很大那我不知道說你未來好針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去做加強或者是加嚴\n150954\t171501\t非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評事實上他的著言點比較偏向污染的防治去不要造成對當地不管是自然景觀或者居民生活等等的危害\n172481\t180600\t但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的\n182011\t182271\t黃秀芳議員\n212351\t232298\t甚至是要增加這方面的委員讓他可以提供從另外一個觀點因為畢竟台灣現在在國際的聲望跟知名度也這個非常高我們的觀光客、國際外賓非常多那假如說到台灣以後看到我們包括農村到處都是這種光天板\n232938\t249908\t的確可能也有所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的這個考量考量之一包括這個太陽光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境不過我在這邊真的跟黃委員報告就是說\n250828\t271009\t太陽光電板它20年使用壽命完了之後把它拆除事實上它對整個環境的影響事實上是微乎其微的是沒錯就是說對它的運作過程不會產生那些污染物還是什麼各方面是所以我想這一點可能也是很多民眾還是什麼可能有一點誤解\n272410\t287090\t所以我剛剛那個部長我剛剛講的就是說當然這個我認同只是說未來不論是在任何地方就是說如果你們在這個海邊架設這樣地面型的地面型的這樣子\n287871\t287912\t黃秀芳議員\n303255\t303295\t黃秀芳議員\n323959\t339790\t整個光電板在這幾年真的我覺得也這個讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕就是說整個就覺得說好像就是跟一些什麼有掛鉤那我們當然不希望這樣子\n340751\t367506\t所以第一個如果要有這樣的一個地面型的光電板或是在這個一些比較需要去跟當地的農民或是當地的漁民要溝通我希望不論是我們的這個經濟部也好或者是農業部或環境部應該要加強溝通另外就是說希望把這個當地的這個地景跟地貌應該也要融入我個人認同\n370518\t398652\t其實我覺得說以前我們看到的這個郡路,郡路就是高嘛,旁邊就是樹木嘛,現在看起來就是整個高,館店就是都架設太陽能板,旁邊就完全都沒有樹齁,其實我覺得這個對整個農村的這個風貌真的是完全都變了,所以我們希望說這一方面真的要再去加強好不好,如果要架設的話,因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通嘛,\n399372\t423490\t就是說這個農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛對啊那這樣子對當地的居民來講其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的好不好所以我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫特別在景觀以及對地方的一個影響\n425991\t444936\t我想請教就是說我們希望就是說這個太陽能光電板架上去之後我們也要求這樣的業者他應該也要去隨時做一個監控這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變\n446296\t469439\t我們是可以要求就是說不能因為我們架了這個光電板上去之後然後整個生態是完全改變的我不知道說你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求給黃委員報告我根據我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過他們事實上有後續有去請一些環保團體去稍微了解一下事實上很多光電\n470540\t470820\t黃秀芳\n491388\t515949\t只要實際我們比較冷靜的去看待這個問題當然我們也知道說有一些問題那就去改那有正面的也應該去報導去跟大家分享因為畢竟不是只有台灣在推太陽光電全世界再生能源太陽光電都是很重要的一部分特別是台灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進我們應該要共同來支持當然環境永續是更重要\n516429\t534714\t那我想請教就是說以目前的這個狀況其實我們在推這個陸域風電也好這是這個太陽能光電的這個設置以目前來講其實整個進程或者是這個速度好像也沒有那麼快那如果未來加嚴的話因為地方的民眾可能\n539375\t555261\t會有一些抗爭或是說會有一些疑慮那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成這個再生能源的這個進程可能又會比較緩慢了可能會比較慢了那這些業者也許他會往國外去發展會不會未來會影響到臺灣的這個再生能源的一個發展\n560643\t579963\t是不是可以先請部長回答一下這個理論上經濟部來回答更嚴肅不過環境部我覺得我們會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的這個角度好那是不是請那個經濟部來次長請\n586800\t614351\t好 謝謝委員剛剛隨時的問題我想經濟部的理念推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續嘛那這個規範過程當中我們一直希望說這個設置的一個這個開發跟我們的生態跟我們的環境都能夠融合我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發在設置過程之前的話我們就排開可能的一個生態的一個這個敏感地帶我剛剛講說我們這個近海的1.5海浬的這個白海屯的氣息我們就把它劃開\n615171\t635828\t那在設置過程當中我們就遵照環評的規範去執行所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望是說在推動過程當中能夠兼顧環境的一個這個發展那我想說如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的一個這個適當的規範讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的一個推動進展\n636408\t664247\t好,我們當然希望就是說台灣的這個綠能的推動能夠很順利可是就我們也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮那會有一些抗爭那當然就是說溝通非常的重要那我們也希望就是說能夠達到這個2050這個淨零碳排能夠達到這樣的目標我是希望說我們還真的還有很長的一段路要走那溝通真的非常的重要好不好謝謝\n667372\t668336\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個\n當然我相信很多委員都非常的關心尤其是我們的這個不論是陸域風電或者是這個離岸風電甚至我們現在最關心的這個太陽能發電那如果是在一般的這個屋頂上的那個可能就比較問題比較沒有那麼大因為現在有很多的學校或者是公共場域很多甚至有的廠房上面都有這個太陽能這個發電嘛\n那最大家最詬病的可能就是在這個一些環境我們認為可能在這個海邊的這種路上型的這種地面型的太陽能光電可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈那我想請教就是說我們這個環境部在這樣的一個\n以前可能在濕地才需要做環評那有很多就像在我們的選區我的選區我們有關這個農業部所主管的這個郡路上面也都架設很多的這個太陽能光墊\n那其實這個都會影響到整個農村的這個風貌或者是整個景觀那我想請教就是說如果要架設這樣的一個太陽能光墊第一可能會影響到當地的這個民眾的比如說如果是在海面上的話可能就影響到漁民的收入嗎\n那如果說在這個峻路的話也會影響到整個農村的景觀那像我們知道說如果是在這個濕地才需要做環評的話那我不知道說這個其實對一般的這個環境我們認為一般的民眾會覺得說影響很大那我不知道說你未來好針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去做加強或者是加嚴\n非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評事實上他的著言點比較偏向污染的防治去不要造成對當地不管是自然景觀或者居民生活等等的危害\n但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的\n黃秀芳議員\n甚至是要增加這方面的委員讓他可以提供從另外一個觀點因為畢竟台灣現在在國際的聲望跟知名度也這個非常高我們的觀光客、國際外賓非常多那假如說到台灣以後看到我們包括農村到處都是這種光天板\n的確可能也有所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的這個考量考量之一包括這個太陽光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境不過我在這邊真的跟黃委員報告就是說\n太陽光電板它20年使用壽命完了之後把它拆除事實上它對整個環境的影響事實上是微乎其微的是沒錯就是說對它的運作過程不會產生那些污染物還是什麼各方面是所以我想這一點可能也是很多民眾還是什麼可能有一點誤解\n所以我剛剛那個部長我剛剛講的就是說當然這個我認同只是說未來不論是在任何地方就是說如果你們在這個海邊架設這樣地面型的地面型的這樣子\n黃秀芳議員\n黃秀芳議員\n整個光電板在這幾年真的我覺得也這個讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕就是說整個就覺得說好像就是跟一些什麼有掛鉤那我們當然不希望這樣子\n所以第一個如果要有這樣的一個地面型的光電板或是在這個一些比較需要去跟當地的農民或是當地的漁民要溝通我希望不論是我們的這個經濟部也好或者是農業部或環境部應該要加強溝通另外就是說希望把這個當地的這個地景跟地貌應該也要融入我個人認同\n其實我覺得說以前我們看到的這個郡路,郡路就是高嘛,旁邊就是樹木嘛,現在看起來就是整個高,館店就是都架設太陽能板,旁邊就完全都沒有樹齁,其實我覺得這個對整個農村的這個風貌真的是完全都變了,所以我們希望說這一方面真的要再去加強好不好,如果要架設的話,因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通嘛,\n就是說這個農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛對啊那這樣子對當地的居民來講其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的好不好所以我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫特別在景觀以及對地方的一個影響\n我想請教就是說我們希望就是說這個太陽能光電板架上去之後我們也要求這樣的業者他應該也要去隨時做一個監控這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變\n我們是可以要求就是說不能因為我們架了這個光電板上去之後然後整個生態是完全改變的我不知道說你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求給黃委員報告我根據我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過他們事實上有後續有去請一些環保團體去稍微了解一下事實上很多光電\n黃秀芳\n只要實際我們比較冷靜的去看待這個問題當然我們也知道說有一些問題那就去改那有正面的也應該去報導去跟大家分享因為畢竟不是只有台灣在推太陽光電全世界再生能源太陽光電都是很重要的一部分特別是台灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進我們應該要共同來支持當然環境永續是更重要\n那我想請教就是說以目前的這個狀況其實我們在推這個陸域風電也好這是這個太陽能光電的這個設置以目前來講其實整個進程或者是這個速度好像也沒有那麼快那如果未來加嚴的話因為地方的民眾可能\n會有一些抗爭或是說會有一些疑慮那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成這個再生能源的這個進程可能又會比較緩慢了可能會比較慢了那這些業者也許他會往國外去發展會不會未來會影響到臺灣的這個再生能源的一個發展\n是不是可以先請部長回答一下這個理論上經濟部來回答更嚴肅不過環境部我覺得我們會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的這個角度好那是不是請那個經濟部來次長請\n好 謝謝委員剛剛隨時的問題我想經濟部的理念推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續嘛那這個規範過程當中我們一直希望說這個設置的一個這個開發跟我們的生態跟我們的環境都能夠融合我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發在設置過程之前的話我們就排開可能的一個生態的一個這個敏感地帶我剛剛講說我們這個近海的1.5海浬的這個白海屯的氣息我們就把它劃開\n那在設置過程當中我們就遵照環評的規範去執行所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望是說在推動過程當中能夠兼顧環境的一個這個發展那我想說如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的一個這個適當的規範讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的一個推動進展\n好,我們當然希望就是說台灣的這個綠能的推動能夠很順利可是就我們也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮那會有一些抗爭那當然就是說溝通非常的重要那我們也希望就是說能夠達到這個2050這個淨零碳排能夠達到這樣的目標我是希望說我們還真的還有很長的一段路要走那溝通真的非常的重要好不好謝謝\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.968 --> 00:30.450\n謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個\n\n00:31.691 --> 00:57.851\n當然我相信很多委員都非常的關心尤其是我們的這個不論是陸域風電或者是這個離岸風電甚至我們現在最關心的這個太陽能發電那如果是在一般的這個屋頂上的那個可能就比較問題比較沒有那麼大因為現在有很多的學校或者是公共場域很多甚至有的廠房上面都有這個太陽能這個發電嘛\n\n01:00.093 --> 01:25.380\n那最大家最詬病的可能就是在這個一些環境我們認為可能在這個海邊的這種路上型的這種地面型的太陽能光電可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈那我想請教就是說我們這個環境部在這樣的一個\n\n01:26.280 --> 01:43.797\n以前可能在濕地才需要做環評那有很多就像在我們的選區我的選區我們有關這個農業部所主管的這個郡路上面也都架設很多的這個太陽能光墊\n\n01:44.958 --> 02:04.271\n那其實這個都會影響到整個農村的這個風貌或者是整個景觀那我想請教就是說如果要架設這樣的一個太陽能光墊第一可能會影響到當地的這個民眾的比如說如果是在海面上的話可能就影響到漁民的收入嗎\n\n02:05.171 --> 02:29.648\n那如果說在這個峻路的話也會影響到整個農村的景觀那像我們知道說如果是在這個濕地才需要做環評的話那我不知道說這個其實對一般的這個環境我們認為一般的民眾會覺得說影響很大那我不知道說你未來好針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去做加強或者是加嚴\n\n02:30.954 --> 02:51.501\n非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評事實上他的著言點比較偏向污染的防治去不要造成對當地不管是自然景觀或者居民生活等等的危害\n\n02:52.481 --> 03:00.600\n但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的\n\n03:02.011 --> 03:02.271\n黃秀芳議員\n\n03:32.351 --> 03:52.298\n甚至是要增加這方面的委員讓他可以提供從另外一個觀點因為畢竟台灣現在在國際的聲望跟知名度也這個非常高我們的觀光客、國際外賓非常多那假如說到台灣以後看到我們包括農村到處都是這種光天板\n\n03:52.938 --> 04:09.908\n的確可能也有所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的這個考量考量之一包括這個太陽光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境不過我在這邊真的跟黃委員報告就是說\n\n04:10.828 --> 04:31.009\n太陽光電板它20年使用壽命完了之後把它拆除事實上它對整個環境的影響事實上是微乎其微的是沒錯就是說對它的運作過程不會產生那些污染物還是什麼各方面是所以我想這一點可能也是很多民眾還是什麼可能有一點誤解\n\n04:32.410 --> 04:47.090\n所以我剛剛那個部長我剛剛講的就是說當然這個我認同只是說未來不論是在任何地方就是說如果你們在這個海邊架設這樣地面型的地面型的這樣子\n\n04:47.871 --> 04:47.912\n黃秀芳議員\n\n05:03.255 --> 05:03.295\n黃秀芳議員\n\n05:23.959 --> 05:39.790\n整個光電板在這幾年真的我覺得也這個讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕就是說整個就覺得說好像就是跟一些什麼有掛鉤那我們當然不希望這樣子\n\n05:40.751 --> 06:07.506\n所以第一個如果要有這樣的一個地面型的光電板或是在這個一些比較需要去跟當地的農民或是當地的漁民要溝通我希望不論是我們的這個經濟部也好或者是農業部或環境部應該要加強溝通另外就是說希望把這個當地的這個地景跟地貌應該也要融入我個人認同\n\n06:10.518 --> 06:38.652\n其實我覺得說以前我們看到的這個郡路,郡路就是高嘛,旁邊就是樹木嘛,現在看起來就是整個高,館店就是都架設太陽能板,旁邊就完全都沒有樹齁,其實我覺得這個對整個農村的這個風貌真的是完全都變了,所以我們希望說這一方面真的要再去加強好不好,如果要架設的話,因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通嘛,\n\n06:39.372 --> 07:03.490\n就是說這個農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛對啊那這樣子對當地的居民來講其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的好不好所以我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫特別在景觀以及對地方的一個影響\n\n07:05.991 --> 07:24.936\n我想請教就是說我們希望就是說這個太陽能光電板架上去之後我們也要求這樣的業者他應該也要去隨時做一個監控這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變\n\n07:26.296 --> 07:49.439\n我們是可以要求就是說不能因為我們架了這個光電板上去之後然後整個生態是完全改變的我不知道說你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求給黃委員報告我根據我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過他們事實上有後續有去請一些環保團體去稍微了解一下事實上很多光電\n\n07:50.540 --> 07:50.820\n黃秀芳\n\n08:11.388 --> 08:35.949\n只要實際我們比較冷靜的去看待這個問題當然我們也知道說有一些問題那就去改那有正面的也應該去報導去跟大家分享因為畢竟不是只有台灣在推太陽光電全世界再生能源太陽光電都是很重要的一部分特別是台灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進我們應該要共同來支持當然環境永續是更重要\n\n08:36.429 --> 08:54.714\n那我想請教就是說以目前的這個狀況其實我們在推這個陸域風電也好這是這個太陽能光電的這個設置以目前來講其實整個進程或者是這個速度好像也沒有那麼快那如果未來加嚴的話因為地方的民眾可能\n\n08:59.375 --> 09:15.261\n會有一些抗爭或是說會有一些疑慮那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成這個再生能源的這個進程可能又會比較緩慢了可能會比較慢了那這些業者也許他會往國外去發展會不會未來會影響到臺灣的這個再生能源的一個發展\n\n09:20.643 --> 09:39.963\n是不是可以先請部長回答一下這個理論上經濟部來回答更嚴肅不過環境部我覺得我們會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的這個角度好那是不是請那個經濟部來次長請\n\n09:46.800 --> 10:14.351\n好謝謝委員剛剛隨時的問題我想經濟部的理念推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續嘛那這個規範過程當中我們一直希望說這個設置的一個這個開發跟我們的生態跟我們的環境都能夠融合我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發在設置過程之前的話我們就排開可能的一個生態的一個這個敏感地帶我剛剛講說我們這個近海的1.5海浬的這個白海屯的氣息我們就把它劃開\n\n10:15.171 --> 10:35.828\n那在設置過程當中我們就遵照環評的規範去執行所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望是說在推動過程當中能夠兼顧環境的一個這個發展那我想說如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的一個這個適當的規範讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的一個推動進展\n\n10:36.408 --> 11:04.247\n好,我們當然希望就是說台灣的這個綠能的推動能夠很順利可是就我們也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮那會有一些抗爭那當然就是說溝通非常的重要那我們也希望就是說能夠達到這個2050這個淨零碳排能夠達到這樣的目標我是希望說我們還真的還有很長的一段路要走那溝通真的非常的重要好不好謝謝\n\n11:07.372 --> 11:08.336\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.968,"end":30.45,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長好,請薛部長好,黃委員好部長好,部長我想請教就是說國發會在去年去年3月底就是有正式公布台灣2050這個淨零排放路徑那其中有提出就是打造零碳能源系統目標是那我想請教就是說當然今天排的這樣的一個"},{"start":31.691,"end":57.851,"text":"當然我相信很多委員都非常的關心尤其是我們的這個不論是陸域風電或者是這個離岸風電甚至我們現在最關心的這個太陽能發電那如果是在一般的這個屋頂上的那個可能就比較問題比較沒有那麼大因為現在有很多的學校或者是公共場域很多甚至有的廠房上面都有這個太陽能這個發電嘛"},{"start":60.093,"end":85.38,"text":"那最大家最詬病的可能就是在這個一些環境我們認為可能在這個海邊的這種路上型的這種地面型的太陽能光電可能會造成漁民或當地居民的一些反彈那我想請教就是說我們這個環境部在這樣的一個"},{"start":86.28,"end":103.797,"text":"以前可能在濕地才需要做環評那有很多就像在我們的選區我的選區我們有關這個農業部所主管的這個郡路上面也都架設很多的這個太陽能光墊"},{"start":104.958,"end":124.271,"text":"那其實這個都會影響到整個農村的這個風貌或者是整個景觀那我想請教就是說如果要架設這樣的一個太陽能光墊第一可能會影響到當地的這個民眾的比如說如果是在海面上的話可能就影響到漁民的收入嗎"},{"start":125.171,"end":149.648,"text":"那如果說在這個峻路的話也會影響到整個農村的景觀那像我們知道說如果是在這個濕地才需要做環評的話那我不知道說這個其實對一般的這個環境我們認為一般的民眾會覺得說影響很大那我不知道說你未來好針對這一部分你們要怎麼樣去做加強或者是加嚴"},{"start":150.954,"end":171.501,"text":"非常謝謝黃委員剛剛的提問的確環境部在做任何開發案的環評事實上他的著言點比較偏向污染的防治去不要造成對當地不管是自然景觀或者居民生活等等的危害"},{"start":172.481,"end":180.6,"text":"但是未來的確應該如黃委員所提到的景觀事實上也是一個非常重要的"},{"start":182.011,"end":182.271,"text":"黃秀芳議員"},{"start":212.351,"end":232.298,"text":"甚至是要增加這方面的委員讓他可以提供從另外一個觀點因為畢竟台灣現在在國際的聲望跟知名度也這個非常高我們的觀光客、國際外賓非常多那假如說到台灣以後看到我們包括農村到處都是這種光天板"},{"start":232.938,"end":249.908,"text":"的確可能也有所以未來有可能把這個加進去你們的這個考量考量之一包括這個太陽光電板的設計是不是能夠搭配整個周遭的環境不過我在這邊真的跟黃委員報告就是說"},{"start":250.828,"end":271.009,"text":"太陽光電板它20年使用壽命完了之後把它拆除事實上它對整個環境的影響事實上是微乎其微的是沒錯就是說對它的運作過程不會產生那些污染物還是什麼各方面是所以我想這一點可能也是很多民眾還是什麼可能有一點誤解"},{"start":272.41,"end":287.09,"text":"所以我剛剛那個部長我剛剛講的就是說當然這個我認同只是說未來不論是在任何地方就是說如果你們在這個海邊架設這樣地面型的地面型的這樣子"},{"start":287.871,"end":287.912,"text":"黃秀芳議員"},{"start":303.255,"end":303.295,"text":"黃秀芳議員"},{"start":323.959,"end":339.79,"text":"整個光電板在這幾年真的我覺得也這個讓一般的民眾覺得很糟糕就是說整個就覺得說好像就是跟一些什麼有掛鉤那我們當然不希望這樣子"},{"start":340.751,"end":367.506,"text":"所以第一個如果要有這樣的一個地面型的光電板或是在這個一些比較需要去跟當地的農民或是當地的漁民要溝通我希望不論是我們的這個經濟部也好或者是農業部或環境部應該要加強溝通另外就是說希望把這個當地的這個地景跟地貌應該也要融入我個人認同"},{"start":370.518,"end":398.652,"text":"其實我覺得說以前我們看到的這個郡路,郡路就是高嘛,旁邊就是樹木嘛,現在看起來就是整個高,館店就是都架設太陽能板,旁邊就完全都沒有樹齁,其實我覺得這個對整個農村的這個風貌真的是完全都變了,所以我們希望說這一方面真的要再去加強好不好,如果要架設的話,因為這個架設好像完全都不需要跟當地的民眾去溝通嘛,"},{"start":399.372,"end":423.49,"text":"就是說這個農業部的農水署同意之後就把這個租出去了嘛對啊那這樣子對當地的居民來講其實他生活在那邊真的是影響蠻大的好不好所以我想我們跟經濟部跟農業部未來應該強化這一塊的聯繫特別在景觀以及對地方的一個影響"},{"start":425.991,"end":444.936,"text":"我想請教就是說我們希望就是說這個太陽能光電板架上去之後我們也要求這樣的業者他應該也要去隨時做一個監控這個地方的生物是不是減少或者是有什麼樣的改變"},{"start":446.296,"end":469.439,"text":"我們是可以要求就是說不能因為我們架了這個光電板上去之後然後整個生態是完全改變的我不知道說你們對這個有沒有這樣的要求給黃委員報告我根據我們林次長曾經也跟我談到過他們事實上有後續有去請一些環保團體去稍微了解一下事實上很多光電"},{"start":470.54,"end":470.82,"text":"黃秀芳"},{"start":491.388,"end":515.949,"text":"只要實際我們比較冷靜的去看待這個問題當然我們也知道說有一些問題那就去改那有正面的也應該去報導去跟大家分享因為畢竟不是只有台灣在推太陽光電全世界再生能源太陽光電都是很重要的一部分特別是台灣在這一塊的技術也是相當的先進我們應該要共同來支持當然環境永續是更重要"},{"start":516.429,"end":534.714,"text":"那我想請教就是說以目前的這個狀況其實我們在推這個陸域風電也好這是這個太陽能光電的這個設置以目前來講其實整個進程或者是這個速度好像也沒有那麼快那如果未來加嚴的話因為地方的民眾可能"},{"start":539.375,"end":555.261,"text":"會有一些抗爭或是說會有一些疑慮那未來加嚴的話也可能會造成這個再生能源的這個進程可能又會比較緩慢了可能會比較慢了那這些業者也許他會往國外去發展會不會未來會影響到臺灣的這個再生能源的一個發展"},{"start":560.643,"end":579.963,"text":"是不是可以先請部長回答一下這個理論上經濟部來回答更嚴肅不過環境部我覺得我們會來衡量如何去符合我們在推動再生能源的這個部分然後又兼顧整個環境永續跟保護的這個角度好那是不是請那個經濟部來次長請"},{"start":586.8,"end":614.351,"text":"好 謝謝委員剛剛隨時的問題我想經濟部的理念推再生能源本來就是基於環境永續嘛那這個規範過程當中我們一直希望說這個設置的一個這個開發跟我們的生態跟我們的環境都能夠融合我一直舉我們離岸風電的開發在設置過程之前的話我們就排開可能的一個生態的一個這個敏感地帶我剛剛講說我們這個近海的1.5海浬的這個白海屯的氣息我們就把它劃開"},{"start":615.171,"end":635.828,"text":"那在設置過程當中我們就遵照環評的規範去執行所以基本上我們經濟部絕對希望是說在推動過程當中能夠兼顧環境的一個這個發展那我想說如果能夠讓這個議題透過環評的一個這個適當的規範讓這個爭議能夠降低比較小的話在推動過程當中或許我們可以得到更好的一個推動進展"},{"start":636.408,"end":664.247,"text":"好,我們當然希望就是說台灣的這個綠能的推動能夠很順利可是就我們也發現民眾可能會有一些疑慮那會有一些抗爭那當然就是說溝通非常的重要那我們也希望就是說能夠達到這個2050這個淨零碳排能夠達到這樣的目標我是希望說我們還真的還有很長的一段路要走那溝通真的非常的重要好不好謝謝"},{"start":667.372,"end":668.336,"text":"主席"}]}}}}