{"id":150217,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150217","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052fa12e4ea0a29b8d26ede38528f72d0f5f8ba9b0039caa7a6f14af525873e7a105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"10:24:55 - 10:35:51","影片長度":"00:10:56","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":656,"end_time":"2024-03-21T10:35:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T10:24:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":343,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（10時25分）謝謝主席，我們現在請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["林次長騰蛟：柯委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：次長好。我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的課程問題，我自己在師培擔任老師超過二十年，我深有同感。你不要說我們的特殊教育現在是變成選修科，連老師過去我們要當……不管是中等教育或是小學教育的學生，說實在的，那時候150個人，3班都有一、兩千個人要申請；現在150個，連100個人都不足額。所以不是只有特殊教育的問題，根本連一般的老師投入這樣教職工作的意願已經是越來越低，原因很簡單，因為老師是高風險的一個工作。","我們今天focus在這個地方，我想前面很多委員都已經特別提到的4年1,600位，我要先澄清一下，次長剛剛說那個叫做專任助理員，我沒有聽錯嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：那個不是，那個月薪制的專任……"],["柯委員志恩：是，請你講清楚。我們現在連老師都沒有專任，都還代理、代課，怎麼可能助理員會有專任！你的專任是指有月薪保障的，所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚，好不好？我剛剛一聽，哇！有點嚇到。部長說的，沒有「專任」這兩個字，就是因為沒有「專任」這兩個字，以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦。剛剛已經有非常多人一直提到這到底夠不夠，因為你看看這個數據，全國大概有兩千九百多個學校、五千多班，1,600位，即使用你的名詞叫做專任，其實還是非常低、還是沒有辦法符合這樣的需求。","不僅是低薪，還有一個非常重要的，目前來說當助理員的基本門檻是什麼，次長知道嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：助理員部分，基本上第一個要高中畢業。"],["柯委員志恩：是，高中畢業，對不對？還有呢？"],["林次長騰蛟：還有受過我們相關的課程。"],["柯委員志恩：課程，36個小時，你覺得這樣就夠了嗎？如果是一個視障方面的助理員，他還要協助做圖、做很多的繪圖，你覺得這樣有辦法符合幫助視障孩子而當作一個助理員嗎？你覺得有辦法嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，確實針對身心障礙類別的部分，有12加1種不同的類別，每一個需要的服務不太一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：是，問題是……"],["林次長騰蛟：除了基本的授課時數，當然包含之後的相關職能。"],["柯委員志恩：是，但是次長要知道，你有機會去看的話有很多……而且要聘這些助理員，還不是特教老師認為誰能夠當他的助手、他是其左右手，是你的人事室在聘，憑藉基本學歷就可以進來，很多人進來，甚至找親友進來。所以這部分裡面有關助理員的標準，我覺得次長應該去瞭解一下。還有次長，你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況，剛剛有很多委員問到目前特教老師到底多少，我就馬上告訴你，112年就有……","再下面，特教老師合格率，你會發現6都當中，說實在的6都真的是資格上，比較完善、資源比較多，只有臺南僅七成，其他都還算高。但是其他縣市，你看到沒有？差距有這麼大！差距有這麼大，這是我們合格的特教老師，老師都沒有辦法合格、特教老師都沒有辦法了，你還說助理員！助理員只有高中職畢業，然後就接受幾個小時課程，你覺得他還有辦法成為我們特教老師的左右手嗎？這就是現實嘛！次長，對不對？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，那個……"],["柯委員志恩：不用等一天告知，我馬上就可以告知你了啦！"],["林次長騰蛟：特教助理員基本上是屬於襄助的角色，所以他是配合老師的部分來做……"],["柯委員志恩：襄助的角色？4年1,600個助理員，你們把他當作是我們目前解決所有事情的特效單，那你現在告訴我說他是輔助的角色，你不覺得你的期待、實際作法跟我們的瞭解有相當的落差嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：對，是……"],["柯委員志恩：對？"],["林次長騰蛟：包含的應該是，一個是包含特教教師，師生比部分我會做調整、提升。然後特教助理員主要是在協助重度以上的這些身心障礙學生，他們在……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你要講清楚，你讓我們大家的期望值太高。但是除了重度之外，重度的因為大家都看得到，現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中，很多人需要更多的協助。但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度，這就還是有個落差。"],["林次長騰蛟：重度的為優先。"],["柯委員志恩：對，所以還是完完全全地不足嘛！而且更不要說現在有很多人，包括很多特教學校的校長，因為比較容易進到特殊學校的校長，然後他利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校，所以就有太多利用特教之名，其實就是行方便之實。因此我們喊了這麼多關於普特融合，我肯定這是一個正確的方向，但是你們有太多的細節根本完全沒有討論到，除了我們剛剛說的資源不足之外，你們的IEP會議流於形式。","我要特別提到一個非常重要的部分，目前你告訴我們，只要有個特教生就可以每班減少1至3人，對不對？應該是這樣。但是你看現實狀況是什麼？通常人數要報教育部是在10月，但是特教生升學鑑定安置時間是在1月，這會變成什麼問題？變成你先報了，然後我1月才來跟你安置說我要多少，所以特教生實際上是變成外加的，除非一般生有人不到，否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的，你就是外加的！因為你的時間點，你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數之時間點，你有沒有發現時間點有這樣的一個落差？所以這才是造成在很多時候，而且如果學校的員額不變，你不過是把這一班有特教生的人數變少，然後再把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面，因為你的員額不變。所以到底對學校來說有特別好嗎？你反而增加別人的問題啊！我這一班有特教生，然後把額外3個人挪到別的班級去，那別班的老師要增加更多的負擔，然後你的時間點又不對。","所以這裡面有太多問題，不要每次一說到特教的問題、普特融合，你就把4年1,600人的那個抬出來，結果分別來看完全是沒有辦法。而且我不要說特教老師不足，剛剛已經呈現出來了，幾乎只有不到八成，然後多數的資源班也沒有特教老師。而且你這些人力當中連寒暑假也沒有，那寒暑假如果需要這些助理員的話，你也沒給人家薪資，所以你們有太多細節我們不曉得。","然後我們還要再看看，我一直相信就是說，上次因為特教學生的霸凌讓人家注意到這個問題：有沒有辦法做到讓各縣市都對特教學生零拒絕？次長，我說的是「零」拒絕！這部分對很多家長來說真的是非常辛苦。除了那個你們真的是要回去研議之外，我還要特別提出來，還有很多不要說是零拒絕，連微歧視都有！你看看新竹、屏東，他們特別提到這些學生，如有疾病或身體孱弱者，各校應勸阻其參加學校所辦的戶外活動。你告訴我，這不是微歧視是什麼？次長。"],["林次長騰蛟：跟委員報告一下，這個部分國教署在新修訂的相關規定裡面，包含戶外教育的部分，基本上因為特教法的規定，學校不能夠……"],["柯委員志恩：他們就擺在這個地方，那你要怎麼辦？"],["林次長騰蛟：我們公布了之後，會請各縣市政府和各個學校檢視他們有沒有違反我們的相關規定。"],["柯委員志恩：請把施行成效給本席一份報告。","除了這個部分，如果仔細去看，就會發現另外一件也與我們有關的事情：其實我們在大學教書，很清楚有一成大專身障學生會休退學，這個比例是非常高的。為什麼會造成這個現象？請問次長有特別去瞭解這個狀況嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：跟委員報告一下，其實不只是身障學生，一般學生也會有休退學的情形，我們是有針對這個部分做過一些統計分析，但確實應該可以做得更細緻，就是針對不同障別的學生休退學到底是什麼樣的原因，才有辦法對症下藥。"],["柯委員志恩：我今天為什麼提出這樣一個問題？因為我本身就在學校系統當中，我覺得每次一有委員問到，就誠如我剛剛所說的，只要提到特殊教育，你就把4年1,600人抬出來，1,600人再分門別類細看的話，說實在的，這1,600個人不只沒有辦法做為現在特教老師的左右手，而且你剛剛特別提到，重度學生、眼見可以看到的，你們可能還會關注，而其實有更多身心障礙的孩子不是外顯的，對這些孩子來說，只要一發生狀況，普特老師，特別是普通班的老師是很難應付的。但是顯然到目前為止，我們還沒有看到一個很完整的措施，光是連特教老師能夠補足名額都沒有！","回到更根本的問題就是，次長，你應該同意，現在願意去修特教的老師，還有願意擔任一般老師的，說實在的，在師資培育機構裡面是人數銳減的，甚至很多學校都已經要把它關閉，你就知道現在從事教職對很多人來說已經不是過去大家認為非常好的出路了，對不對？為什麼我們的教育造成這麼多好的人不願意從事教職？我覺得這才是教育部應該深切思考的根本問題！沒有好的待遇，又永遠都是代理、代課，不給人家一個專任的機會，更不要說在教育現場當中有這麼多問題，教育部都沒有辦法好好地幫這些老師解決，我覺得這才是讓很多人裹足不前的原因。不能讓教育工作者只有熱情！次長，不能只靠熱情，熱情很必要，它是基本門檻，但是教育部應該給予更多的輔助、協助和支援，是不是？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，謝謝柯委員的指教，我想這個部分教育部會持續來做一個精進和檢討。謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員，謝謝次長。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：謝謝！謝謝我的代理主席。","好，接下來我們請登記第8號的張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":454,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","范雲","吳春城","王鴻薇","陳秀寳","林倩綺","黃珊珊","羅智強","何欣純","黃捷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150217","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150217","tool":"pyannote","id":"150217-pyannote"},"job_id":"uucfRzWon1eRmefa","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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00:01:28,902\n請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽有點嚇到部長已經說了沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點\n\n5\n00:01:30,163 --> 00:01:55,848\n已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當著助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎\n\n6\n00:01:58,288 --> 00:02:03,469\n主委員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎\n\n7\n00:02:22,073 --> 00:02:43,165\n是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來\n\n8\n00:02:50,089 --> 00:03:18,791\n所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看了沒有\n\n9\n00:03:19,591 --> 00:03:19,911\n這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?\n\n10\n00:03:38,064 --> 00:03:40,145\n你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎\n\n11\n00:04:13,695 --> 00:04:33,650\n所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的還是有個落差\n\n12\n00:04:36,151 --> 00:04:49,856\n對,所以說還是完完全全的不足嘛而且你更不要說我們現在有很多人包括很多特教的學校的校長他在因為比較容易進到特教的特殊學校的校長然後他還有利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校\n\n13\n00:04:51,616 --> 00:05:17,481\n所以就有太多利用特教之名其實它就行方便之事我們再看下面一個所以我們要喊了這麼多普特融合我肯定這是一個正確的方向但是你們有太多的細節跟我們完全沒有討論到除了我們剛說的資源不足之外你們的IEP的會議當中有流於形式然後我要特別提到部長有一個非常重要的一個部分來我們回過前面那一張\n\n14\n00:05:18,703 --> 00:05:34,622\n你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月\n\n15\n00:05:36,064 --> 00:05:38,367\n這會變成什麼問題?變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現?\n\n16\n00:05:52,583 --> 00:06:13,792\n你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊\n\n17\n00:06:18,291 --> 00:06:18,431\n主席\n\n18\n00:06:48,891 --> 00:06:49,511\n李慧琼教授\n\n19\n00:07:10,956 --> 00:07:40,136\n市長,我做的是零拒絕這部分裡面對很多的家長來說真的是非常的一個辛苦除了那個之外之後你們真的是要回去演繹之外我還要特別提出來還有很多不需要說是零拒絕連圍棋士都有你看看新竹、屏東他們特別提到這些學生如果你有疾病或身體殘弱的話各學校應該勸阻參加所辦的戶外活動你告訴我這不是圍棋士這是什麼\n\n20\n00:07:43,177 --> 00:08:05,149\n市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定\n\n21\n00:08:05,469 --> 00:08:17,420\n所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎\n\n22\n00:08:33,195 --> 00:08:52,798\n跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證\n\n23\n00:08:54,019 --> 00:09:05,323\n我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到\n\n24\n00:09:22,028 --> 00:09:22,248\n．3月18日及21日\n\n25\n00:09:39,631 --> 00:09:51,541\n我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在願意去修特教的老師還有願意擔任一般的老師說實在在師資培育機構裡面從人數銳減甚至很多的學校都已經要達到把它關閉的目的你就知道\n\n26\n00:10:04,071 --> 00:10:09,393\n現在從事教職對很多人來說已經是不是過去大家認為是一個非常好的出路了對不對那為什麼教育造成這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這才是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決\n\n27\n00:10:31,861 --> 00:10:32,221\n謝謝柯志恩\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4613\t5677\t謝謝主席 我們現在請次長有請次長\n10854\t31306\t各位好嗨 次長好我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的這個課程的問題我自己在師培擔任老師擔任超過20年我深有同感你不要說我們這個特殊教育現在變成選修科連老師過去我們要當這個不管是中等教育學生或是小學教育學生我說實在的那時候150個人三班都有一兩千個人來要來申請現在連150個連100個人\n37990\t38670\t月薪制的教育\n64681\t88902\t請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽有點嚇到部長已經說了沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點\n90163\t115848\t已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當著助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎\n118288\t123469\t主委員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎\n142073\t163165\t是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來\n170089\t198791\t所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看了沒有\n199591\t199911\t這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?\n218064\t220145\t你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎\n253695\t273650\t所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的還是有個落差\n276151\t289856\t對,所以說還是完完全全的不足嘛而且你更不要說我們現在有很多人包括很多特教的學校的校長他在因為比較容易進到特教的特殊學校的校長然後他還有利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校\n291616\t317481\t所以就有太多利用特教之名其實它就行方便之事我們再看下面一個所以我們要喊了這麼多普特融合我肯定這是一個正確的方向但是你們有太多的細節跟我們完全沒有討論到除了我們剛說的資源不足之外你們的IEP的會議當中有流於形式然後我要特別提到部長有一個非常重要的一個部分來我們回過前面那一張\n318703\t334622\t你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月\n336064\t338367\t這會變成什麼問題?變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現?\n352583\t373792\t你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊\n378291\t378431\t主席\n408891\t409511\t李慧琼教授\n430956\t460136\t市長,我做的是零拒絕這部分裡面對很多的家長來說真的是非常的一個辛苦除了那個之外之後你們真的是要回去演繹之外我還要特別提出來還有很多不需要說是零拒絕連圍棋士都有你看看新竹、屏東他們特別提到這些學生如果你有疾病或身體殘弱的話各學校應該勸阻參加所辦的戶外活動你告訴我這不是圍棋士這是什麼\n463177\t485149\t市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定\n485469\t497420\t所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎\n513195\t532798\t跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證\n534019\t545323\t我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到\n562028\t562248\t．3月18日及21日\n579631\t591541\t我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在願意去修特教的老師還有願意擔任一般的老師說實在在師資培育機構裡面從人數銳減甚至很多的學校都已經要達到把它關閉的目的你就知道\n604071\t609393\t現在從事教職對很多人來說已經是不是過去大家認為是一個非常好的出路了對不對那為什麼教育造成這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這才是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決\n631861\t632221\t謝謝柯志恩\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們現在請次長有請次長\n各位好嗨 次長好我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的這個課程的問題我自己在師培擔任老師擔任超過20年我深有同感你不要說我們這個特殊教育現在變成選修科連老師過去我們要當這個不管是中等教育學生或是小學教育學生我說實在的那時候150個人三班都有一兩千個人來要來申請現在連150個連100個人\n月薪制的教育\n請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽有點嚇到部長已經說了沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點\n已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當著助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎\n主委員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎\n是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來\n所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看了沒有\n這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?\n你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎\n所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的還是有個落差\n對,所以說還是完完全全的不足嘛而且你更不要說我們現在有很多人包括很多特教的學校的校長他在因為比較容易進到特教的特殊學校的校長然後他還有利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校\n所以就有太多利用特教之名其實它就行方便之事我們再看下面一個所以我們要喊了這麼多普特融合我肯定這是一個正確的方向但是你們有太多的細節跟我們完全沒有討論到除了我們剛說的資源不足之外你們的IEP的會議當中有流於形式然後我要特別提到部長有一個非常重要的一個部分來我們回過前面那一張\n你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月\n這會變成什麼問題?變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現?\n你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊\n主席\n李慧琼教授\n市長,我做的是零拒絕這部分裡面對很多的家長來說真的是非常的一個辛苦除了那個之外之後你們真的是要回去演繹之外我還要特別提出來還有很多不需要說是零拒絕連圍棋士都有你看看新竹、屏東他們特別提到這些學生如果你有疾病或身體殘弱的話各學校應該勸阻參加所辦的戶外活動你告訴我這不是圍棋士這是什麼\n市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定\n所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎\n跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證\n我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到\n．3月18日及21日\n我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在願意去修特教的老師還有願意擔任一般的老師說實在在師資培育機構裡面從人數銳減甚至很多的學校都已經要達到把它關閉的目的你就知道\n現在從事教職對很多人來說已經是不是過去大家認為是一個非常好的出路了對不對那為什麼教育造成這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這才是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決\n謝謝柯志恩\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.613 --> 00:05.677\n謝謝主席我們現在請次長有請次長\n\n00:10.854 --> 00:31.306\n各位好嗨次長好我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的這個課程的問題我自己在師培擔任老師擔任超過20年我深有同感你不要說我們這個特殊教育現在變成選修科連老師過去我們要當這個不管是中等教育學生或是小學教育學生我說實在的那時候150個人三班都有一兩千個人來要來申請現在連150個連100個人\n\n00:37.990 --> 00:38.670\n月薪制的教育\n\n01:04.681 --> 01:28.902\n請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽有點嚇到部長已經說了沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點\n\n01:30.163 --> 01:55.848\n已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當著助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎\n\n01:58.288 --> 02:03.469\n主委員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎\n\n02:22.073 --> 02:43.165\n是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來\n\n02:50.089 --> 03:18.791\n所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看了沒有\n\n03:19.591 --> 03:19.911\n這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?\n\n03:38.064 --> 03:40.145\n你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎\n\n04:13.695 --> 04:33.650\n所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的還是有個落差\n\n04:36.151 --> 04:49.856\n對,所以說還是完完全全的不足嘛而且你更不要說我們現在有很多人包括很多特教的學校的校長他在因為比較容易進到特教的特殊學校的校長然後他還有利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校\n\n04:51.616 --> 05:17.481\n所以就有太多利用特教之名其實它就行方便之事我們再看下面一個所以我們要喊了這麼多普特融合我肯定這是一個正確的方向但是你們有太多的細節跟我們完全沒有討論到除了我們剛說的資源不足之外你們的IEP的會議當中有流於形式然後我要特別提到部長有一個非常重要的一個部分來我們回過前面那一張\n\n05:18.703 --> 05:34.622\n你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月\n\n05:36.064 --> 05:38.367\n這會變成什麼問題?變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現?\n\n05:52.583 --> 06:13.792\n你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊\n\n06:18.291 --> 06:18.431\n主席\n\n06:48.891 --> 06:49.511\n李慧琼教授\n\n07:10.956 --> 07:40.136\n市長,我做的是零拒絕這部分裡面對很多的家長來說真的是非常的一個辛苦除了那個之外之後你們真的是要回去演繹之外我還要特別提出來還有很多不需要說是零拒絕連圍棋士都有你看看新竹、屏東他們特別提到這些學生如果你有疾病或身體殘弱的話各學校應該勸阻參加所辦的戶外活動你告訴我這不是圍棋士這是什麼\n\n07:43.177 --> 08:05.149\n市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定\n\n08:05.469 --> 08:17.420\n所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎\n\n08:33.195 --> 08:52.798\n跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證\n\n08:54.019 --> 09:05.323\n我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到\n\n09:22.028 --> 09:22.248\n．3月18日及21日\n\n09:39.631 --> 09:51.541\n我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在願意去修特教的老師還有願意擔任一般的老師說實在在師資培育機構裡面從人數銳減甚至很多的學校都已經要達到把它關閉的目的你就知道\n\n10:04.071 --> 10:09.393\n現在從事教職對很多人來說已經是不是過去大家認為是一個非常好的出路了對不對那為什麼教育造成這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這才是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決\n\n10:31.861 --> 10:32.221\n謝謝柯志恩\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.613,"end":5.677,"text":"謝謝主席 我們現在請次長有請次長"},{"start":10.854,"end":31.306,"text":"各位好嗨 次長好我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的這個課程的問題我自己在師培擔任老師擔任超過20年我深有同感你不要說我們這個特殊教育現在變成選修科連老師過去我們要當這個不管是中等教育學生或是小學教育學生我說實在的那時候150個人三班都有一兩千個人來要來申請現在連150個連100個人"},{"start":37.99,"end":38.67,"text":"月薪制的教育"},{"start":64.681,"end":88.902,"text":"請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽有點嚇到部長已經說了沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點"},{"start":90.163,"end":115.848,"text":"已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當著助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎"},{"start":118.288,"end":123.469,"text":"主委員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎"},{"start":142.073,"end":163.165,"text":"是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來"},{"start":170.089,"end":198.791,"text":"所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看了沒有"},{"start":199.591,"end":199.911,"text":"這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?"},{"start":218.064,"end":220.145,"text":"你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎"},{"start":253.695,"end":273.65,"text":"所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的還是有個落差"},{"start":276.151,"end":289.856,"text":"對,所以說還是完完全全的不足嘛而且你更不要說我們現在有很多人包括很多特教的學校的校長他在因為比較容易進到特教的特殊學校的校長然後他還有利用一些機會還可以轉到普通學校"},{"start":291.616,"end":317.481,"text":"所以就有太多利用特教之名其實它就行方便之事我們再看下面一個所以我們要喊了這麼多普特融合我肯定這是一個正確的方向但是你們有太多的細節跟我們完全沒有討論到除了我們剛說的資源不足之外你們的IEP的會議當中有流於形式然後我要特別提到部長有一個非常重要的一個部分來我們回過前面那一張"},{"start":318.703,"end":334.622,"text":"你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月"},{"start":336.064,"end":338.367,"text":"這會變成什麼問題?變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現?"},{"start":352.583,"end":373.792,"text":"你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊"},{"start":378.291,"end":378.431,"text":"主席"},{"start":408.891,"end":409.511,"text":"李慧琼教授"},{"start":430.956,"end":460.136,"text":"市長,我做的是零拒絕這部分裡面對很多的家長來說真的是非常的一個辛苦除了那個之外之後你們真的是要回去演繹之外我還要特別提出來還有很多不需要說是零拒絕連圍棋士都有你看看新竹、屏東他們特別提到這些學生如果你有疾病或身體殘弱的話各學校應該勸阻參加所辦的戶外活動你告訴我這不是圍棋士這是什麼"},{"start":463.177,"end":485.149,"text":"市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定"},{"start":485.469,"end":497.42,"text":"所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎"},{"start":513.195,"end":532.798,"text":"跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證"},{"start":534.019,"end":545.323,"text":"我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到"},{"start":562.028,"end":562.248,"text":"．3月18日及21日"},{"start":579.631,"end":591.541,"text":"我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在願意去修特教的老師還有願意擔任一般的老師說實在在師資培育機構裡面從人數銳減甚至很多的學校都已經要達到把它關閉的目的你就知道"},{"start":604.071,"end":609.393,"text":"現在從事教職對很多人來說已經是不是過去大家認為是一個非常好的出路了對不對那為什麼教育造成這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這才是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決"},{"start":631.861,"end":632.221,"text":"謝謝柯志恩"}]}}}}