{"id":150219,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150219","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052e9ece286d858e18a469dd78c507e1b3ff8ba9b0039caa7a610508635f40396865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"10:26:27 - 10:36:58","影片長度":"00:10:31","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":631,"end_time":"2024-03-21T10:36:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T10:26:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（10時26分）謝謝主席，有請環境部薛部長，還有經濟部林次長。"],["主席：好，部長、次長請。"],["薛部長富盛：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好，次長好。"],["林次長全能：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：我想發展再生能源基本上除了希望整個環境能永續以外，對於提升我國的產業競爭力，也是非常重要的一環。我們也知道前天賴總統當選人也到竹科去跟半導體的業者座談，在那個當下，業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持，不過同時也對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也殷殷期盼。因為我們也知道，很多國際上跨國的企業，對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格，就好像台積電就宣布，他們不只在2050年，他們甚至要提前到2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源。其實不只台積電，我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認，也都要有這樣的自我要求。這部分可不可以請次長再進一步說明一下，除了剛剛黃秀芳召委所提到的這些部分以外，有沒有讓大家可以更瞭解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標？"],["林次長全能：謝謝，我想確實沒有錯，現在國內的產業要在國際市場提升它的競爭力，購足重要的綠電來降低它的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力。我們的半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標，就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的要求或2040去達成，所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者。我們會從幾個面向來走，一個面向當然是擴大我們再生能源的供應，比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的離岸風電或者是太陽光電，另外一塊就是我們會有一個綠電的交易機制，來幫忙他們找到更適當的綠電來購置。我想這個部分是從供應國內業者所需要綠電的面向來處理，但是過程當中，我們如何讓這樣的綠電供應能夠更加速，事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行。","過去我們在推太陽光電的時候，我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分，我們就有環境跟社會的檢視機制，透過這個環境跟社會的檢視機制先去篩選，有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分，就不要去設，也不要公告出去，比如說我們的漁電共生就是透過這種機制去公告，沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的區域讓大家可以去申設。那業者有了這樣一個很明確的地方可以申設的時候，它的速度可以加快。我想我們今天討論的環境議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理，像環境部他們現在規劃的部分，有適當的去做一些規範，我相信也是讓業者能夠在加速推動過程當中去排除大家的疑慮，我想這個是正面的一個重要思維來推動工作。"],["王委員正旭：是，的確能源的需求會越來越高，可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠儘量減少環境的衝擊，這是我們今天來這個會議最重要的目的。這個部分剛剛很多委員都已經有提過，就大約略過，不過今天部長的報告有談到在規劃上，未來需要有更多跟各界討論的地方。請問部長，我們過去這些類型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是多元性不足的問題，未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候，有沒有更完整的規劃，去找到更多或者是相關的環保團體？因為他們真的很努力地希望維持臺灣有一個更好的未來。"],["薛部長富盛：是。給王委員報告，事實上我從去年8月20日上任到現在已經也參加過七、八場正式跟環團的對話，除此之外，我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動，特別是任何法案的研修過程當中，從預告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等，跟環團的互動都應該還算是密切。當然我們都知道環保團體本身對任何一個議題也有不同的看法，所以如何能夠綜合整理大家的意見，臺灣畢竟是一個多元的社會，我們也不希望講話比較大聲的，好像就能代表，可能也不必然。因為臺灣的民族性事實上多數的大部分都是沉默的，反而叫得很大聲的，也不代表他是主要的意見，對環境部來講，我們就虛心接受，多聆聽各方面的意見，能夠把事情做好，當然不可能有任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人都按讚、都滿意，不過環境部還是持續來努力。假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊讓民眾沒有辦法參與，我們也非常樂意邀請他們來跟環境部溝通跟交流。"],["王委員正旭：是，那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["王委員正旭：我們可以從上面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎，它雖然不是一個溝通的過程，事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作，相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項，這些單位他們也會試著跟內部或者是做外界的溝通，這部分其實是非常立意良好，可是我們看到過去這幾年來好像參與率不是太高，那是在參與過程裡面誘因不足，或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素，造成參與率不足？是不是請部長說明。"],["薛部長富盛：跟王委員報告，事實上這個獎項從民國81年（1992年）就開始在推動，這裡面列出在近幾年，譬如去年是第5屆，原因是我們在108年（2019年）又把它改一個名稱，叫國家企業環境獎，之前叫中華民國企業環境獎，所以事實上它是一個已經很長久的獎項，很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了，所以當然到後面，參與的並不是那麼高。但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變，特別是現在金管會要求公司推動ESG，事實上獲得這個獎是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效。當然誘因的部分，我們的確還可以思考，不過這個因為都是企業界，假如我們給它獎金，對很多企業來講，事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金，反而是那個榮譽，當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵，把頒獎的層級可以拉得更高，或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因，我們來努力好不好？"],["王委員正旭：好，希望有其他的實質誘因，包括像減稅等等的可能性，這只是一個研議的方向，其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低，我們也期待環境部，還有未來跟衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案，這個是很期待的部分。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["王委員正旭：我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶，已經是非製造業當中占最大的比例，這部分未來如何能夠有效的……不管是在設備上、在相關計畫上，或者是在能源的使用效益上，對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助？針對這部分，不曉得經濟部或是能源局有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院？"],["薛部長富盛：我先跟王委員報告，去年非常謝謝衛福部的薛部長，他也同意，希望醫學中心就要納入包括進行ESG，能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分。其他部分我請……"],["游署長振偉：跟委員報告，像這些大型醫院，我們也提供一些節能設備的補助汰換，比如LED照明、比如空調，另外醫院如果有需要，我們也有專家團隊可以去幫它，協助它做節能輔導，後面可以轉介ESCO來協助它完成這一些節能措施跟實際上的執行，以上跟您說明。"],["王委員正旭：是，我們知道醫院最大的能源要求之一就是不能夠斷電，不管它是在哪一些地方，譬如手術房或者是加護單位，如何能夠做有效的能源儲存，這部分是不是未來也有機會往儲能的方向來發展？"],["薛部長富盛：儲能也是很重要的。"],["游署長振偉：是。確實如委員所說明的，我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談，包括它自主的能源供應，比如屋頂做太陽能搭配儲能、搭配它整個能源管理系統，讓整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好。我們有朝這個方向，正在找幾個醫院在洽談，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。期待未來可以更好，我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝王委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝委員的質詢。","我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（10時37分）","繼續開會（10時42分）"],["主席：好，我們繼續開會。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":404,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王正旭","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:56,569\n我們也知道在前天賴總統當選人到竹科區跟半導體的業者有所座談那在那個當下業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持不過同時也盼望\n\n3\n00:00:57,689 --> 00:01:09,183\n對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也因應期盼因為我們也知道很多國際跨國的企業對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格\n\n4\n00:01:14,108 --> 00:01:32,950\n就好像台積電就宣布他們不只在2050年他們甚至要提醒他提醒他2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源那其實不只台積電我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認也都有這樣的自我要求\n\n5\n00:01:33,751 --> 00:01:46,468\n這部分可不可以請次長在經濟部說明一下除了剛剛黃宣旺、趙偉所提到的這些部分以外有沒有更讓大家可以了解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標\n\n6\n00:01:48,861 --> 00:02:15,453\n謝謝我想其實沒有錯現在的國內的這個產業他要在國際市場提升他的競爭力購足重要的這個綠電來降低他的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力那我們的這個半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的一個要求或2040去達成這樣子所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的一個這個再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者\n\n7\n00:02:17,154 --> 00:02:30,761\n我們會從幾個面向來走一個面向當然是擴大我們的一個這個再生能源的供應比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的這個離岸風電或者是太陽光電那另外一塊就是我們會有一個這個綠電的交易機制來幫他們找到更適當的綠電來購置這樣子\n\n8\n00:02:35,123 --> 00:03:01,447\n那我想這個部分是從這個供應國內的一個業者所需要綠電的面向來處理但是過程當中我們如何讓這樣的綠電的供應能夠更加速事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行那過去我們在推太陽光電的時候我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分我們就有這個環境跟社會的檢視的機制那透過這個環境跟社會檢視機制先去這個篩選\n\n9\n00:03:04,528 --> 00:03:23,300\n有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分就不要去設也不要公告出去這樣子比如說我們的漁電共生就透過這種機制去公告沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的這個區域讓大家可以去生設那業者有了這樣的一個很明確的地方可以生設的時候他的速度可以加快\n\n10\n00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:42,379\n那我想說我們今天討論的這個環境的議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理像環境部他們現在規劃的部分那有適當的去做一些規範我相信也是讓我們在業者能夠加速推動過程當中去排除大家的餘力我想這個是正面的一個重要的思維來推動工作\n\n11\n00:03:42,799 --> 00:04:10,252\n是的確能源的需求會越來越高可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠盡量減少環境的衝擊那這是我們今天其實排這個會議最重要的目的那這個部分剛剛很多很多委員都已經有提過就大約略過不過今天部長裡面報告的有談到就是說如何在規劃上\n\n12\n00:04:11,713 --> 00:04:26,438\n未來需要有更多要跟各界討論的地方請問部長我們過去這些列型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是這個多元性不足的問題\n\n13\n00:04:27,558 --> 00:04:43,805\n未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候有沒有更完整的規劃去找到更多或者是相關的這些環保團體因為他們真的很努力的希望維持台灣有更好的未來\n\n14\n00:04:45,050 --> 00:05:05,417\n給王委員報告是讓我從去年8月22日上任到現在已經也參加過七八場正式的跟環團的對話那除此之外我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動特別是任何法案的研修過程當中從議告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等跟環團的互動都\n\n15\n00:05:13,220 --> 00:05:13,620\n王正旭\n\n16\n00:05:43,560 --> 00:06:00,178\n反而叫了很大聲的也不代表說他是主要的意見那對環境部來講我們就悉心接受多聆聽各方面的意見能夠把事情做好那當然不可能任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人\n\n17\n00:06:01,099 --> 00:06:18,531\n都按讚都滿意不過環境部還是持續來努力那假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊部分讓我們的民眾沒有辦法參與我們也非常樂意來邀請他們來跟環境部來溝通跟交流\n\n18\n00:06:19,151 --> 00:06:46,932\n是,那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通我們可以從下面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎雖然不是一個溝通的過程事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項這些單位他們也試著會跟內部或者是做外界的溝通\n\n19\n00:06:47,832 --> 00:07:07,121\n這部分其實是非常利益的良好可是我們看到過去的幾年來好像參與率不是太高那是不是碰到在參與過程裡面誘因不足或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素造成參與率不足給王委員報告事實上這個獎項從民國81年1992年就開始在推動\n\n20\n00:07:15,048 --> 00:07:30,116\n這裡面列出說在近幾年譬如說去年是第5屆原因是我們在108年2019年又把它改一個名稱叫國家這個企業環境獎之前叫中華民國企業環境獎\n\n21\n00:07:30,916 --> 00:07:58,486\n所以事實上他是一個已經很長久那很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了所以當然到後面來就是參與的並不是那麼高但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變特別是現在金管會要求公司在ESG那獲得這個獎事實上是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效當然誘因的部分我們的確還可以思考啦\n\n22\n00:07:58,866 --> 00:08:18,958\n不過這個是因為都是企業界假如我們給他獎金對很多企業來講事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金反而是那個榮譽那當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵把頒獎的成績可以拉得更高或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因我們來努力好不好\n\n23\n00:08:19,338 --> 00:08:47,393\n好希望有其他的實質誘因包括像減稅等等的可能性這只是一個原意的方向那其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低這個我們也期待環境部還有跟未來跟這個衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案這個是很期待的部分那我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶已經是非製造業當中佔最大的比例\n\n24\n00:08:47,913 --> 00:08:57,571\n那這部分未來如何能夠有效的不管是在設備上或者是在相關計畫上或者是在能源的使用效率上\n\n25\n00:08:58,938 --> 00:09:24,907\n對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助這個部分不曉得經濟部或是能源局這邊有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院我先跟黃委員報告一下就是說去年非常謝謝這個衛福部的薛部長他也同意希望說醫學中心就要納入包括在進行ESG能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分那其他部分我請\n\n26\n00:09:25,847 --> 00:09:45,652\n根委員報告像這些大型醫院我們也提供一些節能設備的一個補助態換比如說LED照明比如說空調那另外醫院如果有需要我們也有專家團隊可以去幫他協助他做節能輔導那後面可以轉接S口來協助他完成這些節能的這些這個措施跟他的實際上的執行以上跟您說明\n\n27\n00:09:46,412 --> 00:10:00,898\n我們知道醫院他最大能源的要求之一就是他不能夠斷電不管他是在哪一些所屬房啊或者是加護單位那能源儲存就是如何能夠做有效的能源儲存\n\n28\n00:10:01,858 --> 00:10:16,373\n這部分是不是未來有機會往這邊出能往的方向來發展確實如委員所說明的我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談包括他的自主的能源供應比如說屋頂做太陽能然後搭配儲能然後搭配他整個能源管理系統\n\n29\n00:10:17,174 --> 00:10:29,368\n讓他整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好這個我們有找這個方向找幾個醫院正在有在洽談謝謝好謝謝那期待未來可以更好我們一起努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9670\t34136\t謝謝主席有請環境部薛部長還有經濟部林次長好部長次長請好王委員好部長好次長好王委員好是我想發展再生能源基本上除了希望整個環境能永續以外那對提升我國產業競爭力也是非常重要的一環那\n37077\t56569\t我們也知道在前天賴總統當選人到竹科區跟半導體的業者有所座談那在那個當下業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持不過同時也盼望\n57689\t69183\t對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也因應期盼因為我們也知道很多國際跨國的企業對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格\n74108\t92950\t就好像台積電就宣布他們不只在2050年他們甚至要提醒他提醒他2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源那其實不只台積電我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認也都有這樣的自我要求\n93751\t106468\t這部分可不可以請次長在經濟部說明一下除了剛剛黃宣旺、趙偉所提到的這些部分以外有沒有更讓大家可以了解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標\n108861\t135453\t謝謝我想其實沒有錯現在的國內的這個產業他要在國際市場提升他的競爭力購足重要的這個綠電來降低他的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力那我們的這個半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的一個要求或2040去達成這樣子所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的一個這個再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者\n137154\t150761\t我們會從幾個面向來走一個面向當然是擴大我們的一個這個再生能源的供應比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的這個離岸風電或者是太陽光電那另外一塊就是我們會有一個這個綠電的交易機制來幫他們找到更適當的綠電來購置這樣子\n155123\t181447\t那我想這個部分是從這個供應國內的一個業者所需要綠電的面向來處理但是過程當中我們如何讓這樣的綠電的供應能夠更加速事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行那過去我們在推太陽光電的時候我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分我們就有這個環境跟社會的檢視的機制那透過這個環境跟社會檢視機制先去這個篩選\n184528\t203300\t有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分就不要去設也不要公告出去這樣子比如說我們的漁電共生就透過這種機制去公告沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的這個區域讓大家可以去生設那業者有了這樣的一個很明確的地方可以生設的時候他的速度可以加快\n203780\t222379\t那我想說我們今天討論的這個環境的議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理像環境部他們現在規劃的部分那有適當的去做一些規範我相信也是讓我們在業者能夠加速推動過程當中去排除大家的餘力我想這個是正面的一個重要的思維來推動工作\n222799\t250252\t是的確能源的需求會越來越高可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠盡量減少環境的衝擊那這是我們今天其實排這個會議最重要的目的那這個部分剛剛很多很多委員都已經有提過就大約略過不過今天部長裡面報告的有談到就是說如何在規劃上\n251713\t266438\t未來需要有更多要跟各界討論的地方請問部長我們過去這些列型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是這個多元性不足的問題\n267558\t283805\t未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候有沒有更完整的規劃去找到更多或者是相關的這些環保團體因為他們真的很努力的希望維持台灣有更好的未來\n285050\t305417\t給王委員報告是讓我從去年8月22日上任到現在已經也參加過七八場正式的跟環團的對話那除此之外我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動特別是任何法案的研修過程當中從議告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等跟環團的互動都\n313220\t313620\t王正旭\n343560\t360178\t反而叫了很大聲的也不代表說他是主要的意見那對環境部來講我們就悉心接受多聆聽各方面的意見能夠把事情做好那當然不可能任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人\n361099\t378531\t都按讚都滿意不過環境部還是持續來努力那假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊部分讓我們的民眾沒有辦法參與我們也非常樂意來邀請他們來跟環境部來溝通跟交流\n379151\t406932\t是,那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通我們可以從下面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎雖然不是一個溝通的過程事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項這些單位他們也試著會跟內部或者是做外界的溝通\n407832\t427121\t這部分其實是非常利益的良好可是我們看到過去的幾年來好像參與率不是太高那是不是碰到在參與過程裡面誘因不足或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素造成參與率不足給王委員報告事實上這個獎項從民國81年1992年就開始在推動\n435048\t450116\t這裡面列出說在近幾年譬如說去年是第5屆原因是我們在108年2019年又把它改一個名稱叫國家這個企業環境獎之前叫中華民國企業環境獎\n450916\t478486\t所以事實上他是一個已經很長久那很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了所以當然到後面來就是參與的並不是那麼高但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變特別是現在金管會要求公司在ESG那獲得這個獎事實上是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效當然誘因的部分我們的確還可以思考啦\n478866\t498958\t不過這個是因為都是企業界假如我們給他獎金對很多企業來講事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金反而是那個榮譽那當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵把頒獎的成績可以拉得更高或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因我們來努力好不好\n499338\t527393\t好希望有其他的實質誘因包括像減稅等等的可能性這只是一個原意的方向那其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低這個我們也期待環境部還有跟未來跟這個衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案這個是很期待的部分那我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶已經是非製造業當中佔最大的比例\n527913\t537571\t那這部分未來如何能夠有效的不管是在設備上或者是在相關計畫上或者是在能源的使用效率上\n538938\t564907\t對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助這個部分不曉得經濟部或是能源局這邊有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院我先跟黃委員報告一下就是說去年非常謝謝這個衛福部的薛部長他也同意希望說醫學中心就要納入包括在進行ESG能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分那其他部分我請\n565847\t585652\t根委員報告像這些大型醫院我們也提供一些節能設備的一個補助態換比如說LED照明比如說空調那另外醫院如果有需要我們也有專家團隊可以去幫他協助他做節能輔導那後面可以轉接S口來協助他完成這些節能的這些這個措施跟他的實際上的執行以上跟您說明\n586412\t600898\t我們知道醫院他最大能源的要求之一就是他不能夠斷電不管他是在哪一些所屬房啊或者是加護單位那能源儲存就是如何能夠做有效的能源儲存\n601858\t616373\t這部分是不是未來有機會往這邊出能往的方向來發展確實如委員所說明的我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談包括他的自主的能源供應比如說屋頂做太陽能然後搭配儲能然後搭配他整個能源管理系統\n617174\t629368\t讓他整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好這個我們有找這個方向找幾個醫院正在有在洽談謝謝好謝謝那期待未來可以更好我們一起努力謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請環境部薛部長還有經濟部林次長好部長次長請好王委員好部長好次長好王委員好是我想發展再生能源基本上除了希望整個環境能永續以外那對提升我國產業競爭力也是非常重要的一環那\n我們也知道在前天賴總統當選人到竹科區跟半導體的業者有所座談那在那個當下業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持不過同時也盼望\n對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也因應期盼因為我們也知道很多國際跨國的企業對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格\n就好像台積電就宣布他們不只在2050年他們甚至要提醒他提醒他2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源那其實不只台積電我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認也都有這樣的自我要求\n這部分可不可以請次長在經濟部說明一下除了剛剛黃宣旺、趙偉所提到的這些部分以外有沒有更讓大家可以了解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標\n謝謝我想其實沒有錯現在的國內的這個產業他要在國際市場提升他的競爭力購足重要的這個綠電來降低他的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力那我們的這個半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的一個要求或2040去達成這樣子所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的一個這個再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者\n我們會從幾個面向來走一個面向當然是擴大我們的一個這個再生能源的供應比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的這個離岸風電或者是太陽光電那另外一塊就是我們會有一個這個綠電的交易機制來幫他們找到更適當的綠電來購置這樣子\n那我想這個部分是從這個供應國內的一個業者所需要綠電的面向來處理但是過程當中我們如何讓這樣的綠電的供應能夠更加速事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行那過去我們在推太陽光電的時候我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分我們就有這個環境跟社會的檢視的機制那透過這個環境跟社會檢視機制先去這個篩選\n有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分就不要去設也不要公告出去這樣子比如說我們的漁電共生就透過這種機制去公告沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的這個區域讓大家可以去生設那業者有了這樣的一個很明確的地方可以生設的時候他的速度可以加快\n那我想說我們今天討論的這個環境的議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理像環境部他們現在規劃的部分那有適當的去做一些規範我相信也是讓我們在業者能夠加速推動過程當中去排除大家的餘力我想這個是正面的一個重要的思維來推動工作\n是的確能源的需求會越來越高可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠盡量減少環境的衝擊那這是我們今天其實排這個會議最重要的目的那這個部分剛剛很多很多委員都已經有提過就大約略過不過今天部長裡面報告的有談到就是說如何在規劃上\n未來需要有更多要跟各界討論的地方請問部長我們過去這些列型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是這個多元性不足的問題\n未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候有沒有更完整的規劃去找到更多或者是相關的這些環保團體因為他們真的很努力的希望維持台灣有更好的未來\n給王委員報告是讓我從去年8月22日上任到現在已經也參加過七八場正式的跟環團的對話那除此之外我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動特別是任何法案的研修過程當中從議告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等跟環團的互動都\n王正旭\n反而叫了很大聲的也不代表說他是主要的意見那對環境部來講我們就悉心接受多聆聽各方面的意見能夠把事情做好那當然不可能任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人\n都按讚都滿意不過環境部還是持續來努力那假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊部分讓我們的民眾沒有辦法參與我們也非常樂意來邀請他們來跟環境部來溝通跟交流\n是,那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通我們可以從下面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎雖然不是一個溝通的過程事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項這些單位他們也試著會跟內部或者是做外界的溝通\n這部分其實是非常利益的良好可是我們看到過去的幾年來好像參與率不是太高那是不是碰到在參與過程裡面誘因不足或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素造成參與率不足給王委員報告事實上這個獎項從民國81年1992年就開始在推動\n這裡面列出說在近幾年譬如說去年是第5屆原因是我們在108年2019年又把它改一個名稱叫國家這個企業環境獎之前叫中華民國企業環境獎\n所以事實上他是一個已經很長久那很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了所以當然到後面來就是參與的並不是那麼高但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變特別是現在金管會要求公司在ESG那獲得這個獎事實上是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效當然誘因的部分我們的確還可以思考啦\n不過這個是因為都是企業界假如我們給他獎金對很多企業來講事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金反而是那個榮譽那當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵把頒獎的成績可以拉得更高或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因我們來努力好不好\n好希望有其他的實質誘因包括像減稅等等的可能性這只是一個原意的方向那其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低這個我們也期待環境部還有跟未來跟這個衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案這個是很期待的部分那我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶已經是非製造業當中佔最大的比例\n那這部分未來如何能夠有效的不管是在設備上或者是在相關計畫上或者是在能源的使用效率上\n對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助這個部分不曉得經濟部或是能源局這邊有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院我先跟黃委員報告一下就是說去年非常謝謝這個衛福部的薛部長他也同意希望說醫學中心就要納入包括在進行ESG能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分那其他部分我請\n根委員報告像這些大型醫院我們也提供一些節能設備的一個補助態換比如說LED照明比如說空調那另外醫院如果有需要我們也有專家團隊可以去幫他協助他做節能輔導那後面可以轉接S口來協助他完成這些節能的這些這個措施跟他的實際上的執行以上跟您說明\n我們知道醫院他最大能源的要求之一就是他不能夠斷電不管他是在哪一些所屬房啊或者是加護單位那能源儲存就是如何能夠做有效的能源儲存\n這部分是不是未來有機會往這邊出能往的方向來發展確實如委員所說明的我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談包括他的自主的能源供應比如說屋頂做太陽能然後搭配儲能然後搭配他整個能源管理系統\n讓他整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好這個我們有找這個方向找幾個醫院正在有在洽談謝謝好謝謝那期待未來可以更好我們一起努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.670 --> 00:34.136\n謝謝主席有請環境部薛部長還有經濟部林次長好部長次長請好王委員好部長好次長好王委員好是我想發展再生能源基本上除了希望整個環境能永續以外那對提升我國產業競爭力也是非常重要的一環那\n\n00:37.077 --> 00:56.569\n我們也知道在前天賴總統當選人到竹科區跟半導體的業者有所座談那在那個當下業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持不過同時也盼望\n\n00:57.689 --> 01:09.183\n對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也因應期盼因為我們也知道很多國際跨國的企業對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格\n\n01:14.108 --> 01:32.950\n就好像台積電就宣布他們不只在2050年他們甚至要提醒他提醒他2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源那其實不只台積電我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認也都有這樣的自我要求\n\n01:33.751 --> 01:46.468\n這部分可不可以請次長在經濟部說明一下除了剛剛黃宣旺、趙偉所提到的這些部分以外有沒有更讓大家可以了解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標\n\n01:48.861 --> 02:15.453\n謝謝我想其實沒有錯現在的國內的這個產業他要在國際市場提升他的競爭力購足重要的這個綠電來降低他的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力那我們的這個半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的一個要求或2040去達成這樣子所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的一個這個再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者\n\n02:17.154 --> 02:30.761\n我們會從幾個面向來走一個面向當然是擴大我們的一個這個再生能源的供應比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的這個離岸風電或者是太陽光電那另外一塊就是我們會有一個這個綠電的交易機制來幫他們找到更適當的綠電來購置這樣子\n\n02:35.123 --> 03:01.447\n那我想這個部分是從這個供應國內的一個業者所需要綠電的面向來處理但是過程當中我們如何讓這樣的綠電的供應能夠更加速事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行那過去我們在推太陽光電的時候我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分我們就有這個環境跟社會的檢視的機制那透過這個環境跟社會檢視機制先去這個篩選\n\n03:04.528 --> 03:23.300\n有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分就不要去設也不要公告出去這樣子比如說我們的漁電共生就透過這種機制去公告沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的這個區域讓大家可以去生設那業者有了這樣的一個很明確的地方可以生設的時候他的速度可以加快\n\n03:23.780 --> 03:42.379\n那我想說我們今天討論的這個環境的議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理像環境部他們現在規劃的部分那有適當的去做一些規範我相信也是讓我們在業者能夠加速推動過程當中去排除大家的餘力我想這個是正面的一個重要的思維來推動工作\n\n03:42.799 --> 04:10.252\n是的確能源的需求會越來越高可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠盡量減少環境的衝擊那這是我們今天其實排這個會議最重要的目的那這個部分剛剛很多很多委員都已經有提過就大約略過不過今天部長裡面報告的有談到就是說如何在規劃上\n\n04:11.713 --> 04:26.438\n未來需要有更多要跟各界討論的地方請問部長我們過去這些列型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是這個多元性不足的問題\n\n04:27.558 --> 04:43.805\n未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候有沒有更完整的規劃去找到更多或者是相關的這些環保團體因為他們真的很努力的希望維持台灣有更好的未來\n\n04:45.050 --> 05:05.417\n給王委員報告是讓我從去年8月22日上任到現在已經也參加過七八場正式的跟環團的對話那除此之外我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動特別是任何法案的研修過程當中從議告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等跟環團的互動都\n\n05:13.220 --> 05:13.620\n王正旭\n\n05:43.560 --> 06:00.178\n反而叫了很大聲的也不代表說他是主要的意見那對環境部來講我們就悉心接受多聆聽各方面的意見能夠把事情做好那當然不可能任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人\n\n06:01.099 --> 06:18.531\n都按讚都滿意不過環境部還是持續來努力那假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊部分讓我們的民眾沒有辦法參與我們也非常樂意來邀請他們來跟環境部來溝通跟交流\n\n06:19.151 --> 06:46.932\n是,那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通我們可以從下面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎雖然不是一個溝通的過程事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項這些單位他們也試著會跟內部或者是做外界的溝通\n\n06:47.832 --> 07:07.121\n這部分其實是非常利益的良好可是我們看到過去的幾年來好像參與率不是太高那是不是碰到在參與過程裡面誘因不足或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素造成參與率不足給王委員報告事實上這個獎項從民國81年1992年就開始在推動\n\n07:15.048 --> 07:30.116\n這裡面列出說在近幾年譬如說去年是第5屆原因是我們在108年2019年又把它改一個名稱叫國家這個企業環境獎之前叫中華民國企業環境獎\n\n07:30.916 --> 07:58.486\n所以事實上他是一個已經很長久那很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了所以當然到後面來就是參與的並不是那麼高但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變特別是現在金管會要求公司在ESG那獲得這個獎事實上是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效當然誘因的部分我們的確還可以思考啦\n\n07:58.866 --> 08:18.958\n不過這個是因為都是企業界假如我們給他獎金對很多企業來講事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金反而是那個榮譽那當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵把頒獎的成績可以拉得更高或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因我們來努力好不好\n\n08:19.338 --> 08:47.393\n好希望有其他的實質誘因包括像減稅等等的可能性這只是一個原意的方向那其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低這個我們也期待環境部還有跟未來跟這個衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案這個是很期待的部分那我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶已經是非製造業當中佔最大的比例\n\n08:47.913 --> 08:57.571\n那這部分未來如何能夠有效的不管是在設備上或者是在相關計畫上或者是在能源的使用效率上\n\n08:58.938 --> 09:24.907\n對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助這個部分不曉得經濟部或是能源局這邊有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院我先跟黃委員報告一下就是說去年非常謝謝這個衛福部的薛部長他也同意希望說醫學中心就要納入包括在進行ESG能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分那其他部分我請\n\n09:25.847 --> 09:45.652\n根委員報告像這些大型醫院我們也提供一些節能設備的一個補助態換比如說LED照明比如說空調那另外醫院如果有需要我們也有專家團隊可以去幫他協助他做節能輔導那後面可以轉接S口來協助他完成這些節能的這些這個措施跟他的實際上的執行以上跟您說明\n\n09:46.412 --> 10:00.898\n我們知道醫院他最大能源的要求之一就是他不能夠斷電不管他是在哪一些所屬房啊或者是加護單位那能源儲存就是如何能夠做有效的能源儲存\n\n10:01.858 --> 10:16.373\n這部分是不是未來有機會往這邊出能往的方向來發展確實如委員所說明的我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談包括他的自主的能源供應比如說屋頂做太陽能然後搭配儲能然後搭配他整個能源管理系統\n\n10:17.174 --> 10:29.368\n讓他整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好這個我們有找這個方向找幾個醫院正在有在洽談謝謝好謝謝那期待未來可以更好我們一起努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.67,"end":34.136,"text":"謝謝主席有請環境部薛部長還有經濟部林次長好部長次長請好王委員好部長好次長好王委員好是我想發展再生能源基本上除了希望整個環境能永續以外那對提升我國產業競爭力也是非常重要的一環那"},{"start":37.077,"end":56.569,"text":"我們也知道在前天賴總統當選人到竹科區跟半導體的業者有所座談那在那個當下業者一方面很肯定政府的施政對於高科技產業的支持不過同時也盼望"},{"start":57.689,"end":69.183,"text":"對於能源轉型、綠電轉型還有淨零轉型的部分也因應期盼因為我們也知道很多國際跨國的企業對於產業鏈的供應未來會要求越來越嚴格"},{"start":74.108,"end":92.95,"text":"就好像台積電就宣布他們不只在2050年他們甚至要提醒他提醒他2040年就要落實全球營運據點都要百分之百使用再生能源那其實不只台積電我想大部分我們在臺灣的這些產業也都有這樣的體認也都有這樣的自我要求"},{"start":93.751,"end":106.468,"text":"這部分可不可以請次長在經濟部說明一下除了剛剛黃宣旺、趙偉所提到的這些部分以外有沒有更讓大家可以了解的具體措施來達到這樣的目標"},{"start":108.861,"end":135.453,"text":"謝謝我想其實沒有錯現在的國內的這個產業他要在國際市場提升他的競爭力購足重要的這個綠電來降低他的排碳是一個很重要的競爭力那我們的這個半導體產業他們都有一個很重要的目標就是希望在2030能夠達到RE100這樣的一個要求或2040去達成這樣子所以我們經濟部就必須提供更多的一個這個再生能源或者是綠電給這些業者"},{"start":137.154,"end":150.761,"text":"我們會從幾個面向來走一個面向當然是擴大我們的一個這個再生能源的供應比如說我們現在看到比較成熟的這個離岸風電或者是太陽光電那另外一塊就是我們會有一個這個綠電的交易機制來幫他們找到更適當的綠電來購置這樣子"},{"start":155.123,"end":181.447,"text":"那我想這個部分是從這個供應國內的一個業者所需要綠電的面向來處理但是過程當中我們如何讓這樣的綠電的供應能夠更加速事實上是需要有一些好的機制來進行那過去我們在推太陽光電的時候我們基本上對於設置可能會有一些爭議的部分我們就有這個環境跟社會的檢視的機制那透過這個環境跟社會檢視機制先去這個篩選"},{"start":184.528,"end":203.3,"text":"有敏感或者是有比較嚴重影響生態的部分就不要去設也不要公告出去這樣子比如說我們的漁電共生就透過這種機制去公告沒有所謂環境或者社會衝擊大的這個區域讓大家可以去生設那業者有了這樣的一個很明確的地方可以生設的時候他的速度可以加快"},{"start":203.78,"end":222.379,"text":"那我想說我們今天討論的這個環境的議題如果能夠有更好的機制在處理像環境部他們現在規劃的部分那有適當的去做一些規範我相信也是讓我們在業者能夠加速推動過程當中去排除大家的餘力我想這個是正面的一個重要的思維來推動工作"},{"start":222.799,"end":250.252,"text":"是的確能源的需求會越來越高可是我們也希望在這個過程裡面能夠盡量減少環境的衝擊那這是我們今天其實排這個會議最重要的目的那這個部分剛剛很多很多委員都已經有提過就大約略過不過今天部長裡面報告的有談到就是說如何在規劃上"},{"start":251.713,"end":266.438,"text":"未來需要有更多要跟各界討論的地方請問部長我們過去這些列型很容易就會被批評說代表性不足或者是這個多元性不足的問題"},{"start":267.558,"end":283.805,"text":"未來在推動相關的說明或者是討論的時候有沒有更完整的規劃去找到更多或者是相關的這些環保團體因為他們真的很努力的希望維持台灣有更好的未來"},{"start":285.05,"end":305.417,"text":"給王委員報告是讓我從去年8月22日上任到現在已經也參加過七八場正式的跟環團的對話那除此之外我們各個部會跟環團之間的互動特別是任何法案的研修過程當中從議告、從研商、從座談會、從公聽會等等跟環團的互動都"},{"start":313.22,"end":313.62,"text":"王正旭"},{"start":343.56,"end":360.178,"text":"反而叫了很大聲的也不代表說他是主要的意見那對環境部來講我們就悉心接受多聆聽各方面的意見能夠把事情做好那當然不可能任何一個辦法或措施讓所有的人"},{"start":361.099,"end":378.531,"text":"都按讚都滿意不過環境部還是持續來努力那假如王委員認為我們還有哪一塊部分讓我們的民眾沒有辦法參與我們也非常樂意來邀請他們來跟環境部來溝通跟交流"},{"start":379.151,"end":406.932,"text":"是,那就麻煩部長持續有效而且是多元的溝通我們可以從下面看到其實環境部這幾年來設立了國家企業環保獎雖然不是一個溝通的過程事實上是在鼓勵或者是號召企業能夠推動長期的環保工作相對如果能夠有這樣的獎項這些單位他們也試著會跟內部或者是做外界的溝通"},{"start":407.832,"end":427.121,"text":"這部分其實是非常利益的良好可是我們看到過去的幾年來好像參與率不是太高那是不是碰到在參與過程裡面誘因不足或者是在推動的部分有哪一些的因素造成參與率不足給王委員報告事實上這個獎項從民國81年1992年就開始在推動"},{"start":435.048,"end":450.116,"text":"這裡面列出說在近幾年譬如說去年是第5屆原因是我們在108年2019年又把它改一個名稱叫國家這個企業環境獎之前叫中華民國企業環境獎"},{"start":450.916,"end":478.486,"text":"所以事實上他是一個已經很長久那很多公司可能都已經獲過獎了所以當然到後面來就是參與的並不是那麼高但是我個人覺得未來應該會改變特別是現在金管會要求公司在ESG那獲得這個獎事實上是公司在ESG推動的一個很好的成效當然誘因的部分我們的確還可以思考啦"},{"start":478.866,"end":498.958,"text":"不過這個是因為都是企業界假如我們給他獎金對很多企業來講事實上他們是比較不會那麼care獎金反而是那個榮譽那當然假如我們將來可以鼓勵把頒獎的成績可以拉得更高或許應該對企業界會有更大的誘因我們來努力好不好"},{"start":499.338,"end":527.393,"text":"好希望有其他的實質誘因包括像減稅等等的可能性這只是一個原意的方向那其實我們也看到醫院參與者更低這個我們也期待環境部還有跟未來跟這個衛福部這邊有沒有共同的鼓勵方案這個是很期待的部分那我們知道其實大型醫院真的是能源消耗的大戶已經是非製造業當中佔最大的比例"},{"start":527.913,"end":537.571,"text":"那這部分未來如何能夠有效的不管是在設備上或者是在相關計畫上或者是在能源的使用效率上"},{"start":538.938,"end":564.907,"text":"對醫院能不能提供什麼樣的協助這個部分不曉得經濟部或是能源局這邊有沒有相關的措施可以來協助醫院我先跟黃委員報告一下就是說去年非常謝謝這個衛福部的薛部長他也同意希望說醫學中心就要納入包括在進行ESG能夠提高包括能源效率的這個部分那其他部分我請"},{"start":565.847,"end":585.652,"text":"根委員報告像這些大型醫院我們也提供一些節能設備的一個補助態換比如說LED照明比如說空調那另外醫院如果有需要我們也有專家團隊可以去幫他協助他做節能輔導那後面可以轉接S口來協助他完成這些節能的這些這個措施跟他的實際上的執行以上跟您說明"},{"start":586.412,"end":600.898,"text":"我們知道醫院他最大能源的要求之一就是他不能夠斷電不管他是在哪一些所屬房啊或者是加護單位那能源儲存就是如何能夠做有效的能源儲存"},{"start":601.858,"end":616.373,"text":"這部分是不是未來有機會往這邊出能往的方向來發展確實如委員所說明的我們現在也跟幾個醫院其實有在談包括他的自主的能源供應比如說屋頂做太陽能然後搭配儲能然後搭配他整個能源管理系統"},{"start":617.174,"end":629.368,"text":"讓他整體醫院的這些能源使用效率做到最好這個我們有找這個方向找幾個醫院正在有在洽談謝謝好謝謝那期待未來可以更好我們一起努力謝謝"}]}}}}