{"id":150233,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150233","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30522f4f71517bd34501fc681ffd8597cae2f8ba9b0039caa7a68aa131f5e391f1f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"10:57:58 - 11:11:39","影片長度":"00:13:41","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-8"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":821,"end_time":"2024-03-21T11:11:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T10:57:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":350,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（10時57分）請蔡局長。"],["主席：有請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，洪委員早。"],["洪委員申翰：局長好，我想先請你看一下這張投影片，這張投影片照片裡面的這位女士，你知不知道這是誰，然後這在哪裡？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，他是俄國反對人士的夫人。"],["洪委員申翰：是，他是納瓦尼的遺孀、夫人，這張照片的位置是在俄羅斯駐柏林大使館海外的投票館，我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統選舉，這位反對派領袖的遺孀也現身在柏林的大使館，當然他其實是在參與反普丁政府投票的抗議行動，局長，我想請問在國家利益上面，為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館？"],["蔡局長明彥：一般其他國家的做法，把投票處所放在自己大使館或館處的話，比較能夠有一個安全的投票環境。"],["洪委員申翰：比方說像這張照片，這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館，在2014年的時候，歐洲議會投票的時候，它設了這個選舉箱，這個當然是要讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在不在籍投票的時候行使投票權，這個用意我想大家很清楚，當然是為了保持投票的秘密，包括是維持投票的自由意志，所以局長，我們再看下一張照片，這張照片其實看得非常非常觸目驚心，這是烏克蘭被占領的四個州在舉行的投票，這個報導是說，居民抱怨有親俄人士其實是在武裝士兵陪同下強迫民眾來投票，這是我們從外電的消息裡面看到的訊息。局長，我這邊想請教，因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題，在不在籍投票裡面，我們看到幾種方式，包括所謂移轉投票，包括特設投票所，包括通訊投票，包括境外投票。局長，你覺得在這幾種不在籍投票裡面，哪一些相對比較可以確保選民的自由意志？"],["蔡局長明彥：事實上各種的不在籍投票，特別是在境外投票，都有它一定的風險存在。委員剛剛有特別提到，包括通訊投票、電子投票跟特設投票所，假如硬要來做比較的話，特設投票所是一般國家比較常採取的方式，但還是要注意到郵寄相關選票的遞送過程，這也是一個要考量的安全問題……"],["洪委員申翰：這個是來自立法院法制局「國外不在籍投票制度之介紹」議題的研析報告，從裡面我們可以看得出來，其實移轉投票跟現在親自投票的狀況相似，它的優點就是它能確保，包括它的可信任度其實是最高的；通訊投票上面，立法院法制局的研析也說到，它可能在身分識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的，這大概可以看得出來它的安全性跟能夠確保民眾的自由意志的程度是相對比較低的。局長，因為我們現在看到，包括行政院的版本裡面關於不在籍投票的部分，當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票，但我們也看到某些委員提出來的版本裡面是有開放境外的通訊投票。所以局長，我想請問，我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海派駐選務人員？"],["蔡局長明彥：針對相關法規的立法程序討論，我們都尊重各種意見的呈現，就國安的角度來講，我們還是會特別提醒到，我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候，也曾經提醒到這一點，畢竟在我們立法院通過的反滲透法來講，中共在定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力，所以假如我們的投開票所有這種要設置在對岸的想法的話，我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心，怕民眾投票的自由意志會受到當地的影響。"],["洪委員申翰：局長，我們接下來確實會審法案，但是它可能不是在外交及國防委員會，而是在其他的委員會來審理，我們也很希望國安局可以把你們針對不在籍投票裡面的各種投票方式做最專業的評估，我不講黨派，針對風險、針對國家安全的角度、針對怎麼確保選民的自由意志的保障部分，其實我覺得要提供專業的意見，來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候，有一個清楚的專業，從安全上面考量的參考，我覺得這部分很重要，對嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：有必要，假如立法院有邀請國安局來提供相關的諮詢意見的話，我們會全力來配合，做更完整的分析。"],["洪委員申翰：好，我覺得局長要做這個準備，要把所有相關的評估準備好，包括國外的情境，你們都把它研究好，這不講黨派……"],["蔡局長明彥：是，當然。"],["洪委員申翰：純粹就從國家安全的角度來給專業的意見，讓委員在審查的時候，有一個清楚的專業依循，好不好？這沒問題嘛？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這是我們的工作。"],["洪委員申翰：好，下一個我想請教海巡署周署長。"],["周署長美伍：委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：署長，我要先表達這段時間很感謝海巡人員在捍衛臺灣海域上面的付出，這部分我想先跟海巡人員做一個很深切的感謝。"],["周署長美伍：謝謝委員。"],["洪委員申翰：但是我們在2018年的時候，就看到一個海巡署特勤隊員士官長在執行醫療後送的救援任務時不幸殉職，所以其實每一次的救援行動，我們都可以看出弟兄是拿命在拚搏的，是這樣子對不對？"],["周署長美伍：是，正確。"],["洪委員申翰：署長，我們為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率，其實海巡署現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊來做協助，對不對？"],["周署長美伍：是。"],["洪委員申翰：在3月16號，也就是上週，我們在媒體上看到，看起來海巡署要出動無人機來參與搜救中國的漁民，因為漁船翻覆，所以要去搜救，我們看到新聞滿大的，說到我們還要出動無人機。我想請問署長，這一次任務成效的評估如何？"],["周署長美伍：我想跟委員報告，這次發生在東碇島的救援事件，當天因為天候不是很好，海象也不是很好，到了下午以後就會起霧，到夜間幾乎都是濃霧，我們這次確實有將金馬澎分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機帶到現場，但是很可惜，因為海象的影響以及天候的影響，並沒有讓它起來……"],["洪委員申翰：所以我們準備要用無人機，也帶到了現場，但是因為天候的原因，所以沒派上用場，我這樣理解有沒有錯誤？"],["周署長美伍：沒錯，正確。"],["洪委員申翰：署長，為什麼我們沒有出動？我們其實有買25公斤級的無人機，它的飛行距離長，救援能力也強，而且還可以有即時的監控，甚至也有一些相關錄影的設備，當然這次金廈海域的事件裡面，大家都說即時監控設備很重要，對不對？"],["周署長美伍：是。"],["洪委員申翰：那為什麼我們沒有派這個25公斤級的無人機去？"],["周署長美伍：特別跟委員說明，目前我們第一代無人機的區隊只建立在北、中、南、東及艦隊等五個分署，金馬澎分署並沒有建立。"],["洪委員申翰：為什麼沒建立？看起來現在有很多的需求啊！"],["周署長美伍：因為我們當初考量金馬地區是一個非常狹窄的水域，這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準，也比較敏感，所以我們希望北、中、南、東以及艦隊分署在使用一段時間之後，在我們的技術等各方面精準了之後，我們再陸續評估看之後是否可行，然後再前推到金門跟馬祖。"],["洪委員申翰：署長，我現在要跟你討論的事情是……當然，我不是說我們的無人機只是來救中國的漁民，未來有機會也許會救到臺灣的漁民。"],["周署長美伍：當然，不分任何……"],["洪委員申翰：這是不分的，但是就救援來說，當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是，我們也許在國安上面或者其他上面會有一些相關的考慮，是不是要使用這個相對比較大型的無人機。可是我自己是希望你可以針對這個事情再跟國安局好好的討論，因為如果我們購置了這個大型的無人機，而且它的能力比較好，它的移動、抗風能力都比較好，到底在什麼樣比較彈性靈活的情境下，我們適合來使用呢？其實看起來像這樣的救援，不管是救大陸或是以後也許會救到臺灣的人，其實我覺得對我們的形象都相對是好的。尤其是我們看到現在中國正在灰色地帶的戰略裡面，各種不同的侵擾，我們做這件事情，但同時我更在意的事情是，如果我們都要派人去救，就像我一開始說的，它是有人身風險上面的安危，所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去的就儘量派，可是你現在有國安上面的疑慮，我自己是覺得，相比於中國的作法，我們是不是可以有更靈活的做法，來去思考我們無人機使用的時機、時刻跟適用的狀況，而不會讓我們花大錢買了這個東西，結果卻好像有點無用武之地？針對這部分，請問蔡局長的看法？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，針對這個部分，我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議，委員說得沒有錯，就無人機來講，它在進行海上的巡弋、搜救，甚至蒐證，都可以發揮非常好的功能，這部分我們來做整體的評估，看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理。"],["洪委員申翰：因為看起來今年在兩岸互助救援的案件數就增加了滿多，當然這是不是中共刻意為之的？我們並不知道，可是救援的案件數看起來是增加，也許接下來還會有其他的需求，我認為只會多不會少，所以我希望國安局跟海巡署能夠共同研議，看怎麼樣讓無人機更好、更適切、更靈活的使用，來取代或者是儘量來協助過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險這樣的狀況。關於這部分，我看到我們說要用無人機，但為什麼沒用？我們會不會有太多把自己給綁死的規矩？我覺得要更靈活的看待這件事情，相對於中共這樣的戰略，這部分請兩位回去再仔細地來思考，包括使用的方案，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：好。針對中共灰色地帶襲擾的各種新樣態，我們也要不斷地來提升本身在這方面的量能，而無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢。"],["洪委員申翰：我最後想提醒一件事情是香港的議題，香港現在有第二十三條立法的問題，23號會開始施行，還不知道施行的狀況怎樣，但他有很大的裁量權。我們知道有非常多民主派的朋友現在全部都被港府跟中共關押在監獄裡面，我覺得要非常審慎地提醒臺灣的民眾，接下來赴港可能會有的風險。因為我們真的不希望有任何一位臺灣公民赴港遭遇意外，他可能是無意識的或者已經習慣自由民主的言論表達方式，卻在這個狀況之下遭受到各種意外，尤其是港府在實施國安法以後會採取怎麼樣的作為，我們不知道。但每一個案例的發生對我們來說，都造成國安上的風險或者處理上的困難。我的意思是我們要非常嚴正地告訴臺灣的民眾跟臺灣的社會，怎麼應對這個狀況，我覺得不是只發一個新聞稿就可以了，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分我們會繼續蒐集相關案例，也會做必要的揭露，讓國人有更高程度的警覺。謝謝委員提醒。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","徐巧芯","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","林楚茵","洪申翰","賴士葆","陳冠廷","邱志偉","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃仁","黃捷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工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00:00:25,106\n請蔡局長有請蔡局長好謝謝主席洪委員長局長好那我想先請你看一下這張投影片喔這個這張投影片裡面照片的這位女士喔你知不知道這是誰然後這在哪裡對她是那個俄國的反對人士的夫人\n\n2\n00:00:25,754 --> 00:00:43,542\n是他是這個納瓦尼的遺孫這個他的夫人那這個照片當然他的位置是在這個俄羅斯駐柏林大使館的這個海外的投票館那這當然我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統的選舉\n\n3\n00:00:46,191 --> 00:01:05,793\n這位反對派的領袖的遺孀其實也現身在柏林的大使館當然他其實是在參與反普丁的這個政府投票的這個抗議的行動局長我想請問在國際案例上面為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館\n\n4\n00:01:07,607 --> 00:01:36,057\n一般其他國家的做法會把投票處所放在自己的大使館或館處的話比較能夠有一個安全的一個投票環境比方說像這張照片這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館在2014年的時候這個歐洲議會投票的時候他設的這個選舉廂這個當然是要讓我們這個讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在這個不在一起投票的時候來行使這個投票權\n\n5\n00:01:37,838 --> 00:01:58,311\n這個用意當然我想大家是很清楚我們當然是為了這個保持投票的秘密也包括是維持投票的自由的意志所以這個局長我們再看下一張照片這個這張照片其實看得非常非常的觸目驚心這張照片其實我們看到這個報導其實說這個\n\n6\n00:02:00,649 --> 00:02:14,209\n有居民抱怨這是在這是烏克蘭被佔領的四個州在舉行的投票他們抱怨說有親俄的人士其實是在武裝士兵下陪同強迫民眾來投票這是我們看到外電的消息裡面看到這個訊息局長\n\n7\n00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:38,296\n我這邊想請教因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題所以不在籍投票裡面我們看到幾種方式包括我們看到所謂移轉投票包括特赦投票所包括通訊投票包括境外投票局長你覺得在這些這幾種不在籍投票裡面哪一些相對比較可以確保\n\n8\n00:02:39,637 --> 00:02:40,358\n選民的自由意志\n\n9\n00:03:04,532 --> 00:03:25,697\n上一張上一張好這個是來自立法院法治局其實國外不在籍投票制度研究的這個議題的研析報告裡面我們其實也看得出來其實移轉投票基本上跟親自的這個投票過程跟我們現在的狀況它的優點就是說它的確保包括它的可信任度其實是最高的\n\n10\n00:03:26,457 --> 00:03:41,844\n那通訊投票上面我們其實這個法規上面的延期立法院法治局的延期也說到他其實可能在身份識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的這其實大概是可以算出來他的這個安全性跟能夠確保\n\n11\n00:03:43,405 --> 00:04:06,242\n民眾的自由意志的程度其實是相對比較低的所以這個局長我想請教因為我們現在看到包括行政院的版本裡面這個不在籍投票的部分當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票但我們現在也在看到某些現在例如某些委員提出來的版本裡面他其實是有開放境外的通訊投票的\n\n12\n00:04:07,782 --> 00:04:14,937\n所以這個局長我想請問我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海來派駐選務人員\n\n13\n00:04:17,677 --> 00:04:46,187\n對我想針對相關的一個法規的立法程序的討論我們都尊重各種的意見的呈現那就國安的角度來講我們還是會特別提醒到的我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候也曾經提醒到這一點因為中共畢竟在我們的立法院通過的反滲透法來講定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力所以假如我們的開票所有這種想法要設置在對岸的話\n\n14\n00:04:46,727 --> 00:05:08,114\n那我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心怕民眾的投票的自由意志會受到當地的一個影響雖然我們接下來確實但是他可能不是在外交國防委員會會在其他的委員會來勝利那我們也很希望其實國安局應該把你們針對不在籍投票裡面各種投票方式最專業的評估我不講黨派最專業的評估針對風險針對國家安全的角度針對怎麼確保\n\n15\n00:05:17,094 --> 00:05:31,519\n選民的自由意志的這個保障的這個部分其實我覺得提供專業的意見來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候有一個清楚的專業從安全上面考量的參考我覺得這部分很重要對嗎有必要假如立法院有邀請\n\n16\n00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:33,179\n局長,我想請海巡署長\n\n17\n00:06:04,212 --> 00:06:30,919\n州署長委員好署長這個我先要先表達這一段時間我要很感謝海巡人員在這個捍衛我們臺灣海域上面的付出這部分我想先跟我們的海巡人員先做一個很深切的感謝謝謝委員但是我們在2018年的時候其實我們那時候就看到海巡署的一個特勤的隊員的市官長\n\n18\n00:06:32,159 --> 00:06:58,554\n那曾經他來執行這個醫療後送的救援任務的時候他其實曾經不幸的殉職所以其實每一次的救援的行動我們都可以看出其實是弟兄其實是拿命在拼搏的是這樣子對不對是正確那這個處長我們其實為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率其實我們海巡組現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊再來做協助對不對是\n\n19\n00:06:59,505 --> 00:07:24,058\n那其實在這個3月16號也就是上週我們在媒體上面看到其實看起來海巡署要出動這個無人機來參與搜救這個中國的漁民因為漁民翻覆要去搜救的狀況我們看到新聞蠻大的說到我們還要出動無人機了那我想請問署長那這一次\n\n20\n00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:41,843\n我想跟委員報告因為這一次發生在東定島的救援事件我們當天的因為天候不是很好那海象也不是很好那到了下午以後就會起霧到夜間幾乎都是濃霧\n\n21\n00:07:43,144 --> 00:07:59,869\n我們這次確實有將我們金馬鵬分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機有帶到現場但是很可惜因為海象的影響以及天后的影響並沒有讓它起來所以我們準備要用無人機結果帶到了現場\n\n22\n00:08:03,470 --> 00:08:13,981\n但是因為天后的原因所以沒派上用場我這樣理解有沒有錯誤那我想署長為什麼沒有出動我們其實有買啊25公斤級的這個無人機它的飛行距離長\n\n23\n00:08:15,373 --> 00:08:15,813\n目前我們第一代的\n\n24\n00:08:36,857 --> 00:08:39,618\n我們當初考量就是因為金馬地區它是一個非常狹窄的水域\n\n25\n00:08:56,785 --> 00:09:17,492\n這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準那也比較敏感所以我們希望在我們北中南東以及艦隊分屬我們在使用一段時間之後我們在我們的技術各方面精準了之後我們在陸續的評估之後看是否可行再前推到金門跟馬祖\n\n26\n00:09:18,132 --> 00:09:46,711\n雖然我現在要跟你討論的事情是說當然我們這一次當然我現在不是說我們無人機只是來救中國的漁民也許有未來有機會也許會救到台灣的漁民當然不分不分就是不分的但是就救援來說的話當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是我們也許在國安上面或者等等上面會有一些相關的考慮那是不是在使用這個相對比較大型的無人機可是我自己是希望說你應該可以跟國安局我覺得針對這個事情再好好的討論\n\n27\n00:09:48,372 --> 00:10:14,426\n如果我們購買、購置了這個大型的無人機而且它其實包括它的能力也比較好它的這個它的移動的抗風能力都比較好那到底在什麼樣子的情境下面什麼比較彈性、靈活的情境下面我們適合來使用而不會讓其實這看起來像這樣的救援不管是救大陸或救以後也許會救到台灣的人其實我覺得這對這個形象都相對是好的\n\n28\n00:10:15,106 --> 00:10:39,828\n尤其是我們看到現在中國正在這個灰色地帶的這個戰略裡面各種不同的侵擾我們其實做這件事情但同時我更在意的事情是如果我們都要派人去救其實就像我一開始說的他是有人生風險上面的安危的所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去能夠盡量派可是你現在有這個國安上面的疑慮我自己是覺得你看相比於中國他們的做法的話\n\n29\n00:10:40,649 --> 00:11:01,028\n我覺得我們是不是可以有更靈活的思考來去想說來去思考我們無人機使用的時機跟時刻跟試用的狀況而不會讓我們買了花大錢買了這個東西結果卻好像有點無用武之地那我覺得這部分這個蔡局長你的看法\n\n30\n00:11:01,969 --> 00:11:17,390\n這部分我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議那委員說的沒有錯就無人機來講它在進行海上的巡弋搜救甚至收證可以發揮非常好的功能那這部分我們來做整體的評估看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理因為現在看起來\n\n31\n00:11:33,755 --> 00:11:51,807\n恐怕我認為只會多不會少所以我是希望國安局跟我們海巡署能夠共同研議怎麼樣更讓無人機更好更適切的使用更靈活的然後來取代或者是來盡量的來協助我們用過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險\n\n32\n00:11:52,788 --> 00:11:52,948\n主席\n\n33\n00:12:15,405 --> 00:12:28,430\n對,針對中共灰色地帶洗腦的各種新的樣態我們也要不斷地來提升我們本身在這方面的一個量能那無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢社長我最後想提醒一件事情是當然香港的議題香港現在在這個\n\n34\n00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:30,250\n臺灣民眾\n\n35\n00:13:17,637 --> 00:13:17,697\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n786\t25106\t請蔡局長有請蔡局長好謝謝主席洪委員長局長好那我想先請你看一下這張投影片喔這個這張投影片裡面照片的這位女士喔你知不知道這是誰然後這在哪裡對她是那個俄國的反對人士的夫人\n25754\t43542\t是他是這個納瓦尼的遺孫這個他的夫人那這個照片當然他的位置是在這個俄羅斯駐柏林大使館的這個海外的投票館那這當然我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統的選舉\n46191\t65793\t這位反對派的領袖的遺孀其實也現身在柏林的大使館當然他其實是在參與反普丁的這個政府投票的這個抗議的行動局長我想請問在國際案例上面為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館\n67607\t96057\t一般其他國家的做法會把投票處所放在自己的大使館或館處的話比較能夠有一個安全的一個投票環境比方說像這張照片這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館在2014年的時候這個歐洲議會投票的時候他設的這個選舉廂這個當然是要讓我們這個讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在這個不在一起投票的時候來行使這個投票權\n97838\t118311\t這個用意當然我想大家是很清楚我們當然是為了這個保持投票的秘密也包括是維持投票的自由的意志所以這個局長我們再看下一張照片這個這張照片其實看得非常非常的觸目驚心這張照片其實我們看到這個報導其實說這個\n120649\t134209\t有居民抱怨這是在這是烏克蘭被佔領的四個州在舉行的投票他們抱怨說有親俄的人士其實是在武裝士兵下陪同強迫民眾來投票這是我們看到外電的消息裡面看到這個訊息局長\n136400\t158296\t我這邊想請教因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題所以不在籍投票裡面我們看到幾種方式包括我們看到所謂移轉投票包括特赦投票所包括通訊投票包括境外投票局長你覺得在這些這幾種不在籍投票裡面哪一些相對比較可以確保\n159637\t160358\t選民的自由意志\n184532\t205697\t上一張上一張好這個是來自立法院法治局其實國外不在籍投票制度研究的這個議題的研析報告裡面我們其實也看得出來其實移轉投票基本上跟親自的這個投票過程跟我們現在的狀況它的優點就是說它的確保包括它的可信任度其實是最高的\n206457\t221844\t那通訊投票上面我們其實這個法規上面的延期立法院法治局的延期也說到他其實可能在身份識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的這其實大概是可以算出來他的這個安全性跟能夠確保\n223405\t246242\t民眾的自由意志的程度其實是相對比較低的所以這個局長我想請教因為我們現在看到包括行政院的版本裡面這個不在籍投票的部分當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票但我們現在也在看到某些現在例如某些委員提出來的版本裡面他其實是有開放境外的通訊投票的\n247782\t254937\t所以這個局長我想請問我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海來派駐選務人員\n257677\t286187\t對我想針對相關的一個法規的立法程序的討論我們都尊重各種的意見的呈現那就國安的角度來講我們還是會特別提醒到的我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候也曾經提醒到這一點因為中共畢竟在我們的立法院通過的反滲透法來講定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力所以假如我們的開票所有這種想法要設置在對岸的話\n286727\t308114\t那我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心怕民眾的投票的自由意志會受到當地的一個影響雖然我們接下來確實但是他可能不是在外交國防委員會會在其他的委員會來勝利那我們也很希望其實國安局應該把你們針對不在籍投票裡面各種投票方式最專業的評估我不講黨派最專業的評估針對風險針對國家安全的角度針對怎麼確保\n317094\t331519\t選民的自由意志的這個保障的這個部分其實我覺得提供專業的意見來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候有一個清楚的專業從安全上面考量的參考我覺得這部分很重要對嗎有必要假如立法院有邀請\n332759\t333179\t局長,我想請海巡署長\n364212\t390919\t州署長委員好署長這個我先要先表達這一段時間我要很感謝海巡人員在這個捍衛我們臺灣海域上面的付出這部分我想先跟我們的海巡人員先做一個很深切的感謝謝謝委員但是我們在2018年的時候其實我們那時候就看到海巡署的一個特勤的隊員的市官長\n392159\t418554\t那曾經他來執行這個醫療後送的救援任務的時候他其實曾經不幸的殉職所以其實每一次的救援的行動我們都可以看出其實是弟兄其實是拿命在拼搏的是這樣子對不對是正確那這個處長我們其實為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率其實我們海巡組現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊再來做協助對不對是\n419505\t444058\t那其實在這個3月16號也就是上週我們在媒體上面看到其實看起來海巡署要出動這個無人機來參與搜救這個中國的漁民因為漁民翻覆要去搜救的狀況我們看到新聞蠻大的說到我們還要出動無人機了那我想請問署長那這一次\n447410\t461843\t我想跟委員報告因為這一次發生在東定島的救援事件我們當天的因為天候不是很好那海象也不是很好那到了下午以後就會起霧到夜間幾乎都是濃霧\n463144\t479869\t我們這次確實有將我們金馬鵬分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機有帶到現場但是很可惜因為海象的影響以及天后的影響並沒有讓它起來所以我們準備要用無人機結果帶到了現場\n483470\t493981\t但是因為天后的原因所以沒派上用場我這樣理解有沒有錯誤那我想署長為什麼沒有出動我們其實有買啊25公斤級的這個無人機它的飛行距離長\n495373\t495813\t目前我們第一代的\n516857\t519618\t我們當初考量就是因為金馬地區它是一個非常狹窄的水域\n536785\t557492\t這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準那也比較敏感所以我們希望在我們北中南東以及艦隊分屬我們在使用一段時間之後我們在我們的技術各方面精準了之後我們在陸續的評估之後看是否可行再前推到金門跟馬祖\n558132\t586711\t雖然我現在要跟你討論的事情是說當然我們這一次當然我現在不是說我們無人機只是來救中國的漁民也許有未來有機會也許會救到台灣的漁民當然不分不分就是不分的但是就救援來說的話當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是我們也許在國安上面或者等等上面會有一些相關的考慮那是不是在使用這個相對比較大型的無人機可是我自己是希望說你應該可以跟國安局我覺得針對這個事情再好好的討論\n588372\t614426\t如果我們購買、購置了這個大型的無人機而且它其實包括它的能力也比較好它的這個它的移動的抗風能力都比較好那到底在什麼樣子的情境下面什麼比較彈性、靈活的情境下面我們適合來使用而不會讓其實這看起來像這樣的救援不管是救大陸或救以後也許會救到台灣的人其實我覺得這對這個形象都相對是好的\n615106\t639828\t尤其是我們看到現在中國正在這個灰色地帶的這個戰略裡面各種不同的侵擾我們其實做這件事情但同時我更在意的事情是如果我們都要派人去救其實就像我一開始說的他是有人生風險上面的安危的所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去能夠盡量派可是你現在有這個國安上面的疑慮我自己是覺得你看相比於中國他們的做法的話\n640649\t661028\t我覺得我們是不是可以有更靈活的思考來去想說來去思考我們無人機使用的時機跟時刻跟試用的狀況而不會讓我們買了花大錢買了這個東西結果卻好像有點無用武之地那我覺得這部分這個蔡局長你的看法\n661969\t677390\t這部分我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議那委員說的沒有錯就無人機來講它在進行海上的巡弋搜救甚至收證可以發揮非常好的功能那這部分我們來做整體的評估看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理因為現在看起來\n678251\t693695\t對﹖\n693755\t711807\t恐怕我認為只會多不會少所以我是希望國安局跟我們海巡署能夠共同研議怎麼樣更讓無人機更好更適切的使用更靈活的然後來取代或者是來盡量的來協助我們用過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險\n712788\t712948\t主席\n735405\t748430\t對,針對中共灰色地帶洗腦的各種新的樣態我們也要不斷地來提升我們本身在這方面的一個量能那無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢社長我最後想提醒一件事情是當然香港的議題香港現在在這個\n750230\t750250\t臺灣民眾\n773353\t797637\t對﹗\n797637\t797697\t主席\n","txt":"請蔡局長有請蔡局長好謝謝主席洪委員長局長好那我想先請你看一下這張投影片喔這個這張投影片裡面照片的這位女士喔你知不知道這是誰然後這在哪裡對她是那個俄國的反對人士的夫人\n是他是這個納瓦尼的遺孫這個他的夫人那這個照片當然他的位置是在這個俄羅斯駐柏林大使館的這個海外的投票館那這當然我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統的選舉\n這位反對派的領袖的遺孀其實也現身在柏林的大使館當然他其實是在參與反普丁的這個政府投票的這個抗議的行動局長我想請問在國際案例上面為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館\n一般其他國家的做法會把投票處所放在自己的大使館或館處的話比較能夠有一個安全的一個投票環境比方說像這張照片這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館在2014年的時候這個歐洲議會投票的時候他設的這個選舉廂這個當然是要讓我們這個讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在這個不在一起投票的時候來行使這個投票權\n這個用意當然我想大家是很清楚我們當然是為了這個保持投票的秘密也包括是維持投票的自由的意志所以這個局長我們再看下一張照片這個這張照片其實看得非常非常的觸目驚心這張照片其實我們看到這個報導其實說這個\n有居民抱怨這是在這是烏克蘭被佔領的四個州在舉行的投票他們抱怨說有親俄的人士其實是在武裝士兵下陪同強迫民眾來投票這是我們看到外電的消息裡面看到這個訊息局長\n我這邊想請教因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題所以不在籍投票裡面我們看到幾種方式包括我們看到所謂移轉投票包括特赦投票所包括通訊投票包括境外投票局長你覺得在這些這幾種不在籍投票裡面哪一些相對比較可以確保\n選民的自由意志\n上一張上一張好這個是來自立法院法治局其實國外不在籍投票制度研究的這個議題的研析報告裡面我們其實也看得出來其實移轉投票基本上跟親自的這個投票過程跟我們現在的狀況它的優點就是說它的確保包括它的可信任度其實是最高的\n那通訊投票上面我們其實這個法規上面的延期立法院法治局的延期也說到他其實可能在身份識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的這其實大概是可以算出來他的這個安全性跟能夠確保\n民眾的自由意志的程度其實是相對比較低的所以這個局長我想請教因為我們現在看到包括行政院的版本裡面這個不在籍投票的部分當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票但我們現在也在看到某些現在例如某些委員提出來的版本裡面他其實是有開放境外的通訊投票的\n所以這個局長我想請問我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海來派駐選務人員\n對我想針對相關的一個法規的立法程序的討論我們都尊重各種的意見的呈現那就國安的角度來講我們還是會特別提醒到的我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候也曾經提醒到這一點因為中共畢竟在我們的立法院通過的反滲透法來講定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力所以假如我們的開票所有這種想法要設置在對岸的話\n那我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心怕民眾的投票的自由意志會受到當地的一個影響雖然我們接下來確實但是他可能不是在外交國防委員會會在其他的委員會來勝利那我們也很希望其實國安局應該把你們針對不在籍投票裡面各種投票方式最專業的評估我不講黨派最專業的評估針對風險針對國家安全的角度針對怎麼確保\n選民的自由意志的這個保障的這個部分其實我覺得提供專業的意見來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候有一個清楚的專業從安全上面考量的參考我覺得這部分很重要對嗎有必要假如立法院有邀請\n局長,我想請海巡署長\n州署長委員好署長這個我先要先表達這一段時間我要很感謝海巡人員在這個捍衛我們臺灣海域上面的付出這部分我想先跟我們的海巡人員先做一個很深切的感謝謝謝委員但是我們在2018年的時候其實我們那時候就看到海巡署的一個特勤的隊員的市官長\n那曾經他來執行這個醫療後送的救援任務的時候他其實曾經不幸的殉職所以其實每一次的救援的行動我們都可以看出其實是弟兄其實是拿命在拼搏的是這樣子對不對是正確那這個處長我們其實為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率其實我們海巡組現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊再來做協助對不對是\n那其實在這個3月16號也就是上週我們在媒體上面看到其實看起來海巡署要出動這個無人機來參與搜救這個中國的漁民因為漁民翻覆要去搜救的狀況我們看到新聞蠻大的說到我們還要出動無人機了那我想請問署長那這一次\n我想跟委員報告因為這一次發生在東定島的救援事件我們當天的因為天候不是很好那海象也不是很好那到了下午以後就會起霧到夜間幾乎都是濃霧\n我們這次確實有將我們金馬鵬分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機有帶到現場但是很可惜因為海象的影響以及天后的影響並沒有讓它起來所以我們準備要用無人機結果帶到了現場\n但是因為天后的原因所以沒派上用場我這樣理解有沒有錯誤那我想署長為什麼沒有出動我們其實有買啊25公斤級的這個無人機它的飛行距離長\n目前我們第一代的\n我們當初考量就是因為金馬地區它是一個非常狹窄的水域\n這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準那也比較敏感所以我們希望在我們北中南東以及艦隊分屬我們在使用一段時間之後我們在我們的技術各方面精準了之後我們在陸續的評估之後看是否可行再前推到金門跟馬祖\n雖然我現在要跟你討論的事情是說當然我們這一次當然我現在不是說我們無人機只是來救中國的漁民也許有未來有機會也許會救到台灣的漁民當然不分不分就是不分的但是就救援來說的話當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是我們也許在國安上面或者等等上面會有一些相關的考慮那是不是在使用這個相對比較大型的無人機可是我自己是希望說你應該可以跟國安局我覺得針對這個事情再好好的討論\n如果我們購買、購置了這個大型的無人機而且它其實包括它的能力也比較好它的這個它的移動的抗風能力都比較好那到底在什麼樣子的情境下面什麼比較彈性、靈活的情境下面我們適合來使用而不會讓其實這看起來像這樣的救援不管是救大陸或救以後也許會救到台灣的人其實我覺得這對這個形象都相對是好的\n尤其是我們看到現在中國正在這個灰色地帶的這個戰略裡面各種不同的侵擾我們其實做這件事情但同時我更在意的事情是如果我們都要派人去救其實就像我一開始說的他是有人生風險上面的安危的所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去能夠盡量派可是你現在有這個國安上面的疑慮我自己是覺得你看相比於中國他們的做法的話\n我覺得我們是不是可以有更靈活的思考來去想說來去思考我們無人機使用的時機跟時刻跟試用的狀況而不會讓我們買了花大錢買了這個東西結果卻好像有點無用武之地那我覺得這部分這個蔡局長你的看法\n這部分我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議那委員說的沒有錯就無人機來講它在進行海上的巡弋搜救甚至收證可以發揮非常好的功能那這部分我們來做整體的評估看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理因為現在看起來\n對﹖\n恐怕我認為只會多不會少所以我是希望國安局跟我們海巡署能夠共同研議怎麼樣更讓無人機更好更適切的使用更靈活的然後來取代或者是來盡量的來協助我們用過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險\n主席\n對,針對中共灰色地帶洗腦的各種新的樣態我們也要不斷地來提升我們本身在這方面的一個量能那無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢社長我最後想提醒一件事情是當然香港的議題香港現在在這個\n臺灣民眾\n對﹗\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.786 --> 00:25.106\n請蔡局長有請蔡局長好謝謝主席洪委員長局長好那我想先請你看一下這張投影片喔這個這張投影片裡面照片的這位女士喔你知不知道這是誰然後這在哪裡對她是那個俄國的反對人士的夫人\n\n00:25.754 --> 00:43.542\n是他是這個納瓦尼的遺孫這個他的夫人那這個照片當然他的位置是在這個俄羅斯駐柏林大使館的這個海外的投票館那這當然我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統的選舉\n\n00:46.191 --> 01:05.793\n這位反對派的領袖的遺孀其實也現身在柏林的大使館當然他其實是在參與反普丁的這個政府投票的這個抗議的行動局長我想請問在國際案例上面為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館\n\n01:07.607 --> 01:36.057\n一般其他國家的做法會把投票處所放在自己的大使館或館處的話比較能夠有一個安全的一個投票環境比方說像這張照片這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館在2014年的時候這個歐洲議會投票的時候他設的這個選舉廂這個當然是要讓我們這個讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在這個不在一起投票的時候來行使這個投票權\n\n01:37.838 --> 01:58.311\n這個用意當然我想大家是很清楚我們當然是為了這個保持投票的秘密也包括是維持投票的自由的意志所以這個局長我們再看下一張照片這個這張照片其實看得非常非常的觸目驚心這張照片其實我們看到這個報導其實說這個\n\n02:00.649 --> 02:14.209\n有居民抱怨這是在這是烏克蘭被佔領的四個州在舉行的投票他們抱怨說有親俄的人士其實是在武裝士兵下陪同強迫民眾來投票這是我們看到外電的消息裡面看到這個訊息局長\n\n02:16.400 --> 02:38.296\n我這邊想請教因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題所以不在籍投票裡面我們看到幾種方式包括我們看到所謂移轉投票包括特赦投票所包括通訊投票包括境外投票局長你覺得在這些這幾種不在籍投票裡面哪一些相對比較可以確保\n\n02:39.637 --> 02:40.358\n選民的自由意志\n\n03:04.532 --> 03:25.697\n上一張上一張好這個是來自立法院法治局其實國外不在籍投票制度研究的這個議題的研析報告裡面我們其實也看得出來其實移轉投票基本上跟親自的這個投票過程跟我們現在的狀況它的優點就是說它的確保包括它的可信任度其實是最高的\n\n03:26.457 --> 03:41.844\n那通訊投票上面我們其實這個法規上面的延期立法院法治局的延期也說到他其實可能在身份識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的這其實大概是可以算出來他的這個安全性跟能夠確保\n\n03:43.405 --> 04:06.242\n民眾的自由意志的程度其實是相對比較低的所以這個局長我想請教因為我們現在看到包括行政院的版本裡面這個不在籍投票的部分當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票但我們現在也在看到某些現在例如某些委員提出來的版本裡面他其實是有開放境外的通訊投票的\n\n04:07.782 --> 04:14.937\n所以這個局長我想請問我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海來派駐選務人員\n\n04:17.677 --> 04:46.187\n對我想針對相關的一個法規的立法程序的討論我們都尊重各種的意見的呈現那就國安的角度來講我們還是會特別提醒到的我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候也曾經提醒到這一點因為中共畢竟在我們的立法院通過的反滲透法來講定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力所以假如我們的開票所有這種想法要設置在對岸的話\n\n04:46.727 --> 05:08.114\n那我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心怕民眾的投票的自由意志會受到當地的一個影響雖然我們接下來確實但是他可能不是在外交國防委員會會在其他的委員會來勝利那我們也很希望其實國安局應該把你們針對不在籍投票裡面各種投票方式最專業的評估我不講黨派最專業的評估針對風險針對國家安全的角度針對怎麼確保\n\n05:17.094 --> 05:31.519\n選民的自由意志的這個保障的這個部分其實我覺得提供專業的意見來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候有一個清楚的專業從安全上面考量的參考我覺得這部分很重要對嗎有必要假如立法院有邀請\n\n05:32.759 --> 05:33.179\n局長,我想請海巡署長\n\n06:04.212 --> 06:30.919\n州署長委員好署長這個我先要先表達這一段時間我要很感謝海巡人員在這個捍衛我們臺灣海域上面的付出這部分我想先跟我們的海巡人員先做一個很深切的感謝謝謝委員但是我們在2018年的時候其實我們那時候就看到海巡署的一個特勤的隊員的市官長\n\n06:32.159 --> 06:58.554\n那曾經他來執行這個醫療後送的救援任務的時候他其實曾經不幸的殉職所以其實每一次的救援的行動我們都可以看出其實是弟兄其實是拿命在拼搏的是這樣子對不對是正確那這個處長我們其實為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率其實我們海巡組現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊再來做協助對不對是\n\n06:59.505 --> 07:24.058\n那其實在這個3月16號也就是上週我們在媒體上面看到其實看起來海巡署要出動這個無人機來參與搜救這個中國的漁民因為漁民翻覆要去搜救的狀況我們看到新聞蠻大的說到我們還要出動無人機了那我想請問署長那這一次\n\n07:27.410 --> 07:41.843\n我想跟委員報告因為這一次發生在東定島的救援事件我們當天的因為天候不是很好那海象也不是很好那到了下午以後就會起霧到夜間幾乎都是濃霧\n\n07:43.144 --> 07:59.869\n我們這次確實有將我們金馬鵬分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機有帶到現場但是很可惜因為海象的影響以及天后的影響並沒有讓它起來所以我們準備要用無人機結果帶到了現場\n\n08:03.470 --> 08:13.981\n但是因為天后的原因所以沒派上用場我這樣理解有沒有錯誤那我想署長為什麼沒有出動我們其實有買啊25公斤級的這個無人機它的飛行距離長\n\n08:15.373 --> 08:15.813\n目前我們第一代的\n\n08:36.857 --> 08:39.618\n我們當初考量就是因為金馬地區它是一個非常狹窄的水域\n\n08:56.785 --> 09:17.492\n這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準那也比較敏感所以我們希望在我們北中南東以及艦隊分屬我們在使用一段時間之後我們在我們的技術各方面精準了之後我們在陸續的評估之後看是否可行再前推到金門跟馬祖\n\n09:18.132 --> 09:46.711\n雖然我現在要跟你討論的事情是說當然我們這一次當然我現在不是說我們無人機只是來救中國的漁民也許有未來有機會也許會救到台灣的漁民當然不分不分就是不分的但是就救援來說的話當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是我們也許在國安上面或者等等上面會有一些相關的考慮那是不是在使用這個相對比較大型的無人機可是我自己是希望說你應該可以跟國安局我覺得針對這個事情再好好的討論\n\n09:48.372 --> 10:14.426\n如果我們購買、購置了這個大型的無人機而且它其實包括它的能力也比較好它的這個它的移動的抗風能力都比較好那到底在什麼樣子的情境下面什麼比較彈性、靈活的情境下面我們適合來使用而不會讓其實這看起來像這樣的救援不管是救大陸或救以後也許會救到台灣的人其實我覺得這對這個形象都相對是好的\n\n10:15.106 --> 10:39.828\n尤其是我們看到現在中國正在這個灰色地帶的這個戰略裡面各種不同的侵擾我們其實做這件事情但同時我更在意的事情是如果我們都要派人去救其實就像我一開始說的他是有人生風險上面的安危的所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去能夠盡量派可是你現在有這個國安上面的疑慮我自己是覺得你看相比於中國他們的做法的話\n\n10:40.649 --> 11:01.028\n我覺得我們是不是可以有更靈活的思考來去想說來去思考我們無人機使用的時機跟時刻跟試用的狀況而不會讓我們買了花大錢買了這個東西結果卻好像有點無用武之地那我覺得這部分這個蔡局長你的看法\n\n11:01.969 --> 11:17.390\n這部分我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議那委員說的沒有錯就無人機來講它在進行海上的巡弋搜救甚至收證可以發揮非常好的功能那這部分我們來做整體的評估看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理因為現在看起來\n\n11:33.755 --> 11:51.807\n恐怕我認為只會多不會少所以我是希望國安局跟我們海巡署能夠共同研議怎麼樣更讓無人機更好更適切的使用更靈活的然後來取代或者是來盡量的來協助我們用過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險\n\n11:52.788 --> 11:52.948\n主席\n\n12:15.405 --> 12:28.430\n對,針對中共灰色地帶洗腦的各種新的樣態我們也要不斷地來提升我們本身在這方面的一個量能那無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢社長我最後想提醒一件事情是當然香港的議題香港現在在這個\n\n12:30.230 --> 12:30.250\n臺灣民眾\n\n13:17.637 --> 13:17.697\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.786,"end":25.106,"text":"請蔡局長有請蔡局長好謝謝主席洪委員長局長好那我想先請你看一下這張投影片喔這個這張投影片裡面照片的這位女士喔你知不知道這是誰然後這在哪裡對她是那個俄國的反對人士的夫人"},{"start":25.754,"end":43.542,"text":"是他是這個納瓦尼的遺孫這個他的夫人那這個照片當然他的位置是在這個俄羅斯駐柏林大使館的這個海外的投票館那這當然我想大家都知道這禮拜其實俄羅斯進行總統的選舉"},{"start":46.191,"end":65.793,"text":"這位反對派的領袖的遺孀其實也現身在柏林的大使館當然他其實是在參與反普丁的這個政府投票的這個抗議的行動局長我想請問在國際案例上面為什麼我們會把海外的投票所設在大使館"},{"start":67.607,"end":96.057,"text":"一般其他國家的做法會把投票處所放在自己的大使館或館處的話比較能夠有一個安全的一個投票環境比方說像這張照片這張照片其實就是波蘭駐韓的大使館在2014年的時候這個歐洲議會投票的時候他設的這個選舉廂這個當然是要讓我們這個讓他們在韓的波蘭公民可以在這個不在一起投票的時候來行使這個投票權"},{"start":97.838,"end":118.311,"text":"這個用意當然我想大家是很清楚我們當然是為了這個保持投票的秘密也包括是維持投票的自由的意志所以這個局長我們再看下一張照片這個這張照片其實看得非常非常的觸目驚心這張照片其實我們看到這個報導其實說這個"},{"start":120.649,"end":134.209,"text":"有居民抱怨這是在這是烏克蘭被佔領的四個州在舉行的投票他們抱怨說有親俄的人士其實是在武裝士兵下陪同強迫民眾來投票這是我們看到外電的消息裡面看到這個訊息局長"},{"start":136.4,"end":158.296,"text":"我這邊想請教因為接下來立法院可能也會來審不在籍投票的問題所以不在籍投票裡面我們看到幾種方式包括我們看到所謂移轉投票包括特赦投票所包括通訊投票包括境外投票局長你覺得在這些這幾種不在籍投票裡面哪一些相對比較可以確保"},{"start":159.637,"end":160.358,"text":"選民的自由意志"},{"start":184.532,"end":205.697,"text":"上一張上一張好這個是來自立法院法治局其實國外不在籍投票制度研究的這個議題的研析報告裡面我們其實也看得出來其實移轉投票基本上跟親自的這個投票過程跟我們現在的狀況它的優點就是說它的確保包括它的可信任度其實是最高的"},{"start":206.457,"end":221.844,"text":"那通訊投票上面我們其實這個法規上面的延期立法院法治局的延期也說到他其實可能在身份識別跟運輸選票的風險其實是會大幅提升的這其實大概是可以算出來他的這個安全性跟能夠確保"},{"start":223.405,"end":246.242,"text":"民眾的自由意志的程度其實是相對比較低的所以這個局長我想請教因為我們現在看到包括行政院的版本裡面這個不在籍投票的部分當然我們現在是鎖定在移轉投票但我們現在也在看到某些現在例如某些委員提出來的版本裡面他其實是有開放境外的通訊投票的"},{"start":247.782,"end":254.937,"text":"所以這個局長我想請問我們有沒有辦法在北京跟上海來派駐選務人員"},{"start":257.677,"end":286.187,"text":"對我想針對相關的一個法規的立法程序的討論我們都尊重各種的意見的呈現那就國安的角度來講我們還是會特別提醒到的我好像在上次跟委員做說明的時候也曾經提醒到這一點因為中共畢竟在我們的立法院通過的反滲透法來講定義上比較像是一個境外的敵對國家或境外的敵對勢力所以假如我們的開票所有這種想法要設置在對岸的話"},{"start":286.727,"end":308.114,"text":"那我們認為相關的風險評估要非常非常的小心怕民眾的投票的自由意志會受到當地的一個影響雖然我們接下來確實但是他可能不是在外交國防委員會會在其他的委員會來勝利那我們也很希望其實國安局應該把你們針對不在籍投票裡面各種投票方式最專業的評估我不講黨派最專業的評估針對風險針對國家安全的角度針對怎麼確保"},{"start":317.094,"end":331.519,"text":"選民的自由意志的這個保障的這個部分其實我覺得提供專業的意見來讓到時候我們在做法案審議的時候有一個清楚的專業從安全上面考量的參考我覺得這部分很重要對嗎有必要假如立法院有邀請"},{"start":332.759,"end":333.179,"text":"局長,我想請海巡署長"},{"start":364.212,"end":390.919,"text":"州署長委員好署長這個我先要先表達這一段時間我要很感謝海巡人員在這個捍衛我們臺灣海域上面的付出這部分我想先跟我們的海巡人員先做一個很深切的感謝謝謝委員但是我們在2018年的時候其實我們那時候就看到海巡署的一個特勤的隊員的市官長"},{"start":392.159,"end":418.554,"text":"那曾經他來執行這個醫療後送的救援任務的時候他其實曾經不幸的殉職所以其實每一次的救援的行動我們都可以看出其實是弟兄其實是拿命在拼搏的是這樣子對不對是正確那這個處長我們其實為了要降低人員的風險跟提高救援的效率其實我們海巡組現在也開始建立所謂的無人機隊再來做協助對不對是"},{"start":419.505,"end":444.058,"text":"那其實在這個3月16號也就是上週我們在媒體上面看到其實看起來海巡署要出動這個無人機來參與搜救這個中國的漁民因為漁民翻覆要去搜救的狀況我們看到新聞蠻大的說到我們還要出動無人機了那我想請問署長那這一次"},{"start":447.41,"end":461.843,"text":"我想跟委員報告因為這一次發生在東定島的救援事件我們當天的因為天候不是很好那海象也不是很好那到了下午以後就會起霧到夜間幾乎都是濃霧"},{"start":463.144,"end":479.869,"text":"我們這次確實有將我們金馬鵬分署的兩架多旋翼的無人機有帶到現場但是很可惜因為海象的影響以及天后的影響並沒有讓它起來所以我們準備要用無人機結果帶到了現場"},{"start":483.47,"end":493.981,"text":"但是因為天后的原因所以沒派上用場我這樣理解有沒有錯誤那我想署長為什麼沒有出動我們其實有買啊25公斤級的這個無人機它的飛行距離長"},{"start":495.373,"end":495.813,"text":"目前我們第一代的"},{"start":516.857,"end":519.618,"text":"我們當初考量就是因為金馬地區它是一個非常狹窄的水域"},{"start":536.785,"end":557.492,"text":"這個空域跟相關的要求都比較精準那也比較敏感所以我們希望在我們北中南東以及艦隊分屬我們在使用一段時間之後我們在我們的技術各方面精準了之後我們在陸續的評估之後看是否可行再前推到金門跟馬祖"},{"start":558.132,"end":586.711,"text":"雖然我現在要跟你討論的事情是說當然我們這一次當然我現在不是說我們無人機只是來救中國的漁民也許有未來有機會也許會救到台灣的漁民當然不分不分就是不分的但是就救援來說的話當然我聽得出你剛才講的意思是我們也許在國安上面或者等等上面會有一些相關的考慮那是不是在使用這個相對比較大型的無人機可是我自己是希望說你應該可以跟國安局我覺得針對這個事情再好好的討論"},{"start":588.372,"end":614.426,"text":"如果我們購買、購置了這個大型的無人機而且它其實包括它的能力也比較好它的這個它的移動的抗風能力都比較好那到底在什麼樣子的情境下面什麼比較彈性、靈活的情境下面我們適合來使用而不會讓其實這看起來像這樣的救援不管是救大陸或救以後也許會救到台灣的人其實我覺得這對這個形象都相對是好的"},{"start":615.106,"end":639.828,"text":"尤其是我們看到現在中國正在這個灰色地帶的這個戰略裡面各種不同的侵擾我們其實做這件事情但同時我更在意的事情是如果我們都要派人去救其實就像我一開始說的他是有人生風險上面的安危的所以我們當然希望如果未來可以派無人機去能夠盡量派可是你現在有這個國安上面的疑慮我自己是覺得你看相比於中國他們的做法的話"},{"start":640.649,"end":661.028,"text":"我覺得我們是不是可以有更靈活的思考來去想說來去思考我們無人機使用的時機跟時刻跟試用的狀況而不會讓我們買了花大錢買了這個東西結果卻好像有點無用武之地那我覺得這部分這個蔡局長你的看法"},{"start":661.969,"end":677.39,"text":"這部分我們國安團隊幾個部會有在做相關的研議那委員說的沒有錯就無人機來講它在進行海上的巡弋搜救甚至收證可以發揮非常好的功能那這部分我們來做整體的評估看資源分配上怎麼樣來做處理因為現在看起來"},{"start":678.251,"end":693.695,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":693.755,"end":711.807,"text":"恐怕我認為只會多不會少所以我是希望國安局跟我們海巡署能夠共同研議怎麼樣更讓無人機更好更適切的使用更靈活的然後來取代或者是來盡量的來協助我們用過去用直接的人員去可能要承擔一定風險"},{"start":712.788,"end":712.948,"text":"主席"},{"start":735.405,"end":748.43,"text":"對,針對中共灰色地帶洗腦的各種新的樣態我們也要不斷地來提升我們本身在這方面的一個量能那無人化跟智能化是未來發展的重要趨勢社長我最後想提醒一件事情是當然香港的議題香港現在在這個"},{"start":750.23,"end":750.25,"text":"臺灣民眾"},{"start":773.353,"end":797.637,"text":"對﹗"},{"start":797.637,"end":797.697,"text":"主席"}]}}}}