{"id":150235,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150235","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30525b883b2f94e1a011e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a6fe46eb304f211c515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"11:09:49 - 11:19:50","影片長度":"00:10:01","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":601,"end_time":"2024-03-21T11:19:50+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T11:09:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":745,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（11時9分）主席好，我想請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好！又快到了用水緊張的季節，今年缺水季節感覺是提早一點來，媒體的說法是提早了1個月，我們當然很關心全臺用水狀態，因為本席是從新竹地區來，所以特別關心新竹的狀況。目前新竹水庫的蓄水量大概都低於五成，感覺也開始有點吃緊，我想請教一下，因為台積電預計2027年正式投產，現在也如火如荼進行，對於整個台積電每天預計要多9.8萬噸的用水，你們有沒有什麼因應方式？"],["賴署長建信：除了台積電自己在原來的科學園區裡自建再生水回收之外，包括新竹縣市的竹北、客雅這些再生水的供應，應該可以滿足台積電擴廠的需求。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，因為竹北、竹東跟客雅三個再生水廠，到2027、2028後，1天大概可以多4.3萬噸的水，其實跟台積電這邊的需求還是有一點不夠，台積電承諾大概在2030年的時候，他們的使用水會全部用再生水來滿足，我相信他們企業本身也非常投入，同時新竹這邊也在推一個海淡廠計畫，請問目前這個海淡廠進度如何？"],["賴署長建信：現在招標中。"],["鄭委員正鈐：招標中，是不是？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是針對國際招標，還是有特定限制國內的廠商？"],["賴署長建信：國際標。"],["鄭委員正鈐：國際標嘛！技術方面，有針對什麼樣的技術設限，還是完全開放？"],["賴署長建信：基本上我們當然希望遴選出最好的廠商，用最新的設備，目前國際上海淡廠的處理分為三個部分，包括取水效益的提高、能源回收效益的提高，還有末端產生的部分，包括鹵水的減少、再利用，這都是一個方向。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，那在整個技術當中，有特別限制要用RO，或者是沒有這個限制？"],["賴署長建信：初步的規劃，RO是現在國際主流，當然我們希望成熟製程之外，還要更先進的製程，這些我們都歡迎。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以沒有特別限制一定是用RO，如果有更先進的技術也是可以使用，對不對？其實地方上對於整個鹵水的排放是很擔心的，在你們提出的報告中提到，對於整個鹽度的部分，提出了50、100、200、300公尺的排口距離，請問，鹵水排放的時候，模擬鹽度是從海面、海底，還是海的中間？"],["賴署長建信：基本上是以排放口附近背景的鹽度來對比我們開發之後的差別。"],["鄭委員正鈐：如果是正常的鹵水排放，應該是從海底排放，對不對？所以我們模擬的鹽度是從海底模擬出來的數字？"],["賴署長建信：海底會有一個擴散的模式……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["賴署長建信：這個我們也一併……"],["鄭委員正鈐：預計排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外？"],["賴署長建信：據我瞭解是1,000到1,500。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，這就是漁民擔心的地方，他們覺得這樣是不夠的，我想這部分也許需要再做溝通。之前我們曾經開過一次座談會，漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心，覺得這樣的距離還是會影響到他們的生計，所以會後再請署長來本席辦公室做一個報告，好不好？"],["賴署長建信：因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響評估……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["賴署長建信：相關的衝擊我們都會有備案。"],["鄭委員正鈐：至少怎麼樣去跟漁民溝通，讓他們不要擔心，我覺得是一個很重要的部分，如果到現在漁民還是非常惶恐而去掛白布條，我覺得都不是一個特別好的狀態，所以希望你們後續能夠持續去做溝通。","另外，我們看到台水的報告提到，以目前整個水的成本來看，賣1度水大概要虧1.8元左右，是這樣的數字嗎？請問董事長。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，去年1度水的成本大概是12……"],["鄭委員正鈐：12.91。"],["李董事長嘉榮：對，12.91左右，但我們真正的水價只收到11.06元，所以是虧了1.85元。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，台水每賣1度水虧1.85元，所以去年整個虧了43億，大概是創了這幾十年來最高紀錄，對不對？"],["李董事長嘉榮：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為現在整個環境問題也日益嚴重，我想請教經濟部長，針對台水的虧損狀態，你覺得要如何解決台水虧損的問題？"],["王部長美花：是，我們最近會優先請院裡面支持，就是在相關漏水計畫裡面，用公建、政府經費來協助他們。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎？"],["王部長美花：就是計畫的部分，以政府預算來撥補，對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：政府預算撥補就等於是全民買單的意思，我給部長看兩個數字，台水的收費標準和北水的收費標準是不一樣的，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是，略有不同。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長覺得哪一種方式比較好？"],["王部長美花：其實沒有比較好或不好，但是北水目前水價相對台水是有高一點沒有錯。"],["鄭委員正鈐：北水高一點，可是對於民生用水而言，很多家戶民生用水1個月搞不好就只用20度、30度，並沒有很多，比較起來，是不是北水的方式會更合理一點？"],["王部長美花：這個背景、條件什麼的都不太一樣，因為台水公司負責臺北以外的全國用水，包括偏鄉，包括各式各樣，是不太一樣的，所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的機制。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態時，就等於是全民買單，那對於特定用水大戶來說，他們就占了這個便宜，既然目前北水跟台水收費標準不一樣，我們也希望經濟部這邊可以好好檢討，加上現在面臨氣候變遷，整個用水問題變得非常嚴峻，我們也希望透過級距的安排，讓民眾更願意節水、省水，我覺得這是一個政策方面的考量。","另外，部長剛剛特別提到目前是希望透過政府預算來支持、減少漏水的問題，請問董事長，台水目前管理的自來水管線總長度有多長？"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，大概有7萬6,000公里。"],["鄭委員正鈐：7萬6,000公里，對不對？"],["李董事長嘉榮：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我也看到一個數據，就是到113年時，希望我們的漏水率降到12%，對不對？今年年底可以順利達成嗎？"],["李董事長嘉榮：我們有信心，去年是12.54%，今年的目標是12%，我們很努力在……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以你們很有信心今年可以達成，讓漏水率達到12%，對不對？"],["李董事長嘉榮：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我看到另一個數據是你們預計8年後，漏水率能夠降到10%，有沒有辦法再降低這個數字？目前臺灣的漏水率在國際上排名其實是不好的，日本只有3%，東京大概只有3%，而就整個臺灣來說，如果還把10%當作我們的目標，我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，我們在120年要降到10%以下，我們有蒐集到國外一些城市漏水率的資料，降得越低它投入的經費可能就要越高，這個我們也會再評估，不過降低漏水是一個必然的趨勢，我們會持續努力來進行。"],["鄭委員正鈐：針對這部分，因為新竹在三區處，如果有機會請再特別跟本席報告新竹這邊的漏水狀況以及管線重新更新的具體狀態好不好？"],["李董事長嘉榮：好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來請陳超明委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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0.816}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.4, \"end\": 272.52, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 272.52, \"end\": 272.661, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 272.661, \"end\": 272.821, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 272.821, \"end\": 272.961, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 272.961, \"end\": 272.981, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 274.802, \"end\": 299.974, \"text\": \"會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 274.802, \"end\": 275.182, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 275.182, \"end\": 275.422, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 275.422, \"end\": 275.763, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 275.763, \"end\": 276.503, \"score\": 0.942}, 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00:01:55,086\n因為我們竹北竹東跟克雅三個再生水廠的時候到大概2027、2028之後大概一天大概可以多大概4.3萬噸啦那其實跟台積電這邊還是有點不太夠那台積電他有承諾說大概在2030年的時候全部的他的使用水會全部用再生水來滿\n\n6\n00:01:57,286 --> 00:02:16,249\n我相信他們企業本身也非常的投入我知道同時新竹這邊的時候也在推一個海淡廠的一個計畫海淡廠這個部分的時候請問目前進度是怎麼樣現在在招標中招標中是不是我們是針對國際招標還是有特地限制國內的廠商國際標那麼技術方式有針對怎麼樣的技術去設限還是完全開放\n\n7\n00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:54,051\n基本上我們當然希望說領選出最好的廠商用最新的設備在國際上面在海戰場的處理它分為三個部分包括取水的這個效率的提高能源回收效率的提高還有墨的產生的這個部分還有包括鹵水的這個減少的再利用這個都是一個方向所以在這個技術當中的時候有特別限制用RO或者是沒有這個限制\n\n8\n00:02:55,702 --> 00:02:56,385\n我們基本上應該是\n\n9\n00:02:58,524 --> 00:03:01,086\n我們看到就是你們提出的報告當中那麼對於整個鹽度的部分\n\n10\n00:03:27,842 --> 00:03:53,620\n提出了50、100、200、300公尺的一個牌口的一個距離我想問一下我們的汝水排放的時候我們在模擬鹽度當中的時候是從海面還是海底還是海的中間基本上是以排放口附近的這個背景的鹽度的部分來對比說我們開發之後的一個差別所以是如果是就是我們正常汝水排放從海底排放嘛對不對\n\n11\n00:03:54,921 --> 00:04:11,817\n所以我們的模擬的延度是從海底去模擬出來的一個數字那海底會有一個擴散的模式這個我們也一定好因為那我們比方說我們預計比方說我們的排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外\n\n12\n00:04:12,865 --> 00:04:32,981\n據我了解是1000到1500這個就是漁民擔心的地方他們覺得其實是不夠的那我在想這個部分我們也許需要再做一些溝通因為之前我們曾經開過一個座談會的時候漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心他們覺得這樣子的一個距離他們覺得是還是會影響他們的一個生計所以\n\n13\n00:04:34,802 --> 00:04:59,974\n會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通\n\n14\n00:05:01,155 --> 00:05:24,326\n那我想說因為我們看到目前台水提供出來的一個報告那麼以目前整個水的成本賣一度水大概要虧1.8元左右的是這樣的一個數字嗎請問董事長跟委員報告我們去年一度水的成本大概是12點\n\n15\n00:05:26,855 --> 00:05:28,440\n水價只有收到11.06,所以是虧了1.85塊。\n\n16\n00:05:35,743 --> 00:05:54,321\n對,所以每賣一度水虧1.85元嘛,對不對?所以去年整個虧了43元,大概創了這幾十年來的一個最高的一個紀錄,對不對?那因為現在整個環境問題也日益的嚴重啦,我想請教一下我們經濟部長針對台水這樣子虧損的狀態,你覺得要怎麼樣子來解決台水虧損的情況?\n\n17\n00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:15,113\n是那我們最近會優先來請院裡面來支持在這個相關的漏水的計畫裡面用公建公共政府的這個經費來給他做協助你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎就是用計畫的部分來給政府預算來撥補對\n\n18\n00:06:21,415 --> 00:06:40,067\n政府預算撥補的部分就等於是全民買單的意思那我給部長看兩個數字我們台水的一個收費標準跟整個北水的一個收費標準是不一樣的對不對是略有不同部長覺得哪一種的方式比較好\n\n19\n00:06:41,890 --> 00:07:06,519\n其實沒有比較好不好但是北水目前的這個水價的部分相對台水是有高一點是沒有錯水水高一點可是對於民生用水如果很多的家戶民生用水一個月搞不好就只用20度30度的用水其實並沒有很多比較起來的時候感覺台北水的方式是不是會更合理一點\n\n20\n00:07:08,899 --> 00:07:29,020\n這個背景的條件什麼都略有不太一樣那因為台水公司他負責全台北以外的全國的用水包括偏鄉的包括這個各式各樣都不太一樣所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的一個機制\n\n21\n00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:56,931\n我們也希望說就是因為當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態的時候就等於是全民在買單那對於特定的用水大戶來說的時候他們就占了這個便宜所以我們也希望因為既然目前北水跟台水的收費標準不一樣我們也希望經濟部這邊能夠好好去檢討一下然後加上現在整個氣候變遷之後整個用水的問題\n\n22\n00:07:57,711 --> 00:08:04,333\n議員提到說我們目前也希望透過政府預算的部分來支持來減少漏水的問題我想問一下台水現在目前整個管理的\n\n23\n00:08:26,212 --> 00:08:52,173\n自來水管線總長度有多長?跟委員報告大概有7萬6千公里7萬6千公里對不對那我看到一個數字到113年的時候我們希望我們的漏水率降到12%嘛對不對目前可不可以順利達成今年年底我們有信心去年是12.5是今年的目標是12%我們是很努力在能夠有所以你們很有信心今年可以達成\n\n24\n00:08:52,873 --> 00:09:20,979\n就是漏水率到12對不對那我看到一個數字是你們預計8年之後希望能夠降到10%有沒有辦法提高更高的一個數字因為台灣目前的一個漏水的一個情況在國際上面其實排名其實是不好的日本他們搞不好只有3%東京大概只有3%那我們整個台灣來說如果說還在12%當作我們的目標10%當作我們的目標我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態\n\n25\n00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:37,820\n跟委員報告我們現在120年要降到10%以下那我們有去收集到一些國外的一些城市的一個漏水利那越降越低他投入的經費可能就要越高那這個我們也會在\n\n26\n00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:38,580\n謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝文\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n429\t12576\t請做詢答主席好,我想請一下王部長我們請王部長\n19079\t41236\t部長好,其實又快到了那個用水緊張的季節了那今年那個感覺缺水的季節感覺提早一點來那媒體說法是說提早了一個月啦那我想說我們這邊當然是很關心整個全台用水的狀態那因為本席從新竹這個地區來所以特別關心新竹的狀態\n42917\t71460\t我想說目前整個新竹這邊的一個蓄水、水庫的蓄水大概都低於五成了這感覺也開始有點吃緊那我想請教一下就是以目前就是因為台積電預計2027年就是要正式投產了嘛那也現在如火如荼在走那我們對於整個台積電每天預計要多9.8萬噸的用水有沒有什麼樣子的因應的方式\n73622\t88556\t除了台積電自己在原來科學園區裏面自建再生水回收之外包括新竹縣市的竹北、克雅這些再生水的供應可以滿足到原來台積電擴廠的需求\n92413\t115086\t因為我們竹北竹東跟克雅三個再生水廠的時候到大概2027、2028之後大概一天大概可以多大概4.3萬噸啦那其實跟台積電這邊還是有點不太夠那台積電他有承諾說大概在2030年的時候全部的他的使用水會全部用再生水來滿\n117286\t136249\t我相信他們企業本身也非常的投入我知道同時新竹這邊的時候也在推一個海淡廠的一個計畫海淡廠這個部分的時候請問目前進度是怎麼樣現在在招標中招標中是不是我們是針對國際招標還是有特地限制國內的廠商國際標那麼技術方式有針對怎麼樣的技術去設限還是完全開放\n145840\t174051\t基本上我們當然希望說領選出最好的廠商用最新的設備在國際上面在海戰場的處理它分為三個部分包括取水的這個效率的提高能源回收效率的提高還有墨的產生的這個部分還有包括鹵水的這個減少的再利用這個都是一個方向所以在這個技術當中的時候有特別限制用RO或者是沒有這個限制\n175702\t176385\t我們基本上應該是\n178524\t181086\t我們看到就是你們提出的報告當中那麼對於整個鹽度的部分\n207842\t233620\t提出了50、100、200、300公尺的一個牌口的一個距離我想問一下我們的汝水排放的時候我們在模擬鹽度當中的時候是從海面還是海底還是海的中間基本上是以排放口附近的這個背景的鹽度的部分來對比說我們開發之後的一個差別所以是如果是就是我們正常汝水排放從海底排放嘛對不對\n234921\t251817\t所以我們的模擬的延度是從海底去模擬出來的一個數字那海底會有一個擴散的模式這個我們也一定好因為那我們比方說我們預計比方說我們的排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外\n252865\t272981\t據我了解是1000到1500這個就是漁民擔心的地方他們覺得其實是不夠的那我在想這個部分我們也許需要再做一些溝通因為之前我們曾經開過一個座談會的時候漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心他們覺得這樣子的一個距離他們覺得是還是會影響他們的一個生計所以\n274802\t299974\t會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通\n301155\t324326\t那我想說因為我們看到目前台水提供出來的一個報告那麼以目前整個水的成本賣一度水大概要虧1.8元左右的是這樣的一個數字嗎請問董事長跟委員報告我們去年一度水的成本大概是12點\n326855\t328440\t水價只有收到11.06,所以是虧了1.85塊。\n335743\t354321\t對,所以每賣一度水虧1.85元嘛,對不對?所以去年整個虧了43元,大概創了這幾十年來的一個最高的一個紀錄,對不對?那因為現在整個環境問題也日益的嚴重啦,我想請教一下我們經濟部長針對台水這樣子虧損的狀態,你覺得要怎麼樣子來解決台水虧損的情況?\n359609\t375113\t是 那我們最近會優先來請院裡面來支持在這個相關的漏水的計畫裡面用公建公共政府的這個經費來給他做協助你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎就是用計畫的部分來給政府預算來撥補 對\n381415\t400067\t政府預算撥補的部分就等於是全民買單的意思那我給部長看兩個數字我們台水的一個收費標準跟整個北水的一個收費標準是不一樣的對不對是 略有不同部長覺得哪一種的方式比較好\n401890\t426519\t其實沒有比較好不好但是北水目前的這個水價的部分相對台水是有高一點是沒有錯水水高一點可是對於民生用水如果很多的家戶民生用水一個月搞不好就只用20度30度的用水其實並沒有很多比較起來的時候感覺台北水的方式是不是會更合理一點\n428899\t449020\t這個背景的條件什麼都略有不太一樣那因為台水公司他負責全台北以外的全國的用水包括偏鄉的包括這個各式各樣都不太一樣所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的一個機制\n449920\t476931\t我們也希望說就是因為當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態的時候就等於是全民在買單那對於特定的用水大戶來說的時候他們就占了這個便宜所以我們也希望因為既然目前北水跟台水的收費標準不一樣我們也希望經濟部這邊能夠好好去檢討一下然後加上現在整個氣候變遷之後整個用水的問題\n477711\t484333\t議員提到說我們目前也希望透過政府預算的部分來支持來減少漏水的問題我想問一下台水現在目前整個管理的\n506212\t532173\t自來水管線總長度有多長?跟委員報告大概有7萬6千公里7萬6千公里對不對那我看到一個數字到113年的時候我們希望我們的漏水率降到12%嘛對不對目前可不可以順利達成今年年底我們有信心去年是12.5是今年的目標是12%我們是很努力在能夠有所以你們很有信心今年可以達成\n532873\t560979\t就是漏水率到12對不對那我看到一個數字是你們預計8年之後希望能夠降到10%有沒有辦法提高更高的一個數字因為台灣目前的一個漏水的一個情況在國際上面其實排名其實是不好的日本他們搞不好只有3%東京大概只有3%那我們整個台灣來說如果說還在12%當作我們的目標10%當作我們的目標我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態\n562520\t577820\t跟委員報告我們現在120年要降到10%以下那我們有去收集到一些國外的一些城市的一個漏水利那越降越低他投入的經費可能就要越高那這個我們也會在\n578400\t578580\t謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝文\n","txt":"請做詢答主席好,我想請一下王部長我們請王部長\n部長好,其實又快到了那個用水緊張的季節了那今年那個感覺缺水的季節感覺提早一點來那媒體說法是說提早了一個月啦那我想說我們這邊當然是很關心整個全台用水的狀態那因為本席從新竹這個地區來所以特別關心新竹的狀態\n我想說目前整個新竹這邊的一個蓄水、水庫的蓄水大概都低於五成了這感覺也開始有點吃緊那我想請教一下就是以目前就是因為台積電預計2027年就是要正式投產了嘛那也現在如火如荼在走那我們對於整個台積電每天預計要多9.8萬噸的用水有沒有什麼樣子的因應的方式\n除了台積電自己在原來科學園區裏面自建再生水回收之外包括新竹縣市的竹北、克雅這些再生水的供應可以滿足到原來台積電擴廠的需求\n因為我們竹北竹東跟克雅三個再生水廠的時候到大概2027、2028之後大概一天大概可以多大概4.3萬噸啦那其實跟台積電這邊還是有點不太夠那台積電他有承諾說大概在2030年的時候全部的他的使用水會全部用再生水來滿\n我相信他們企業本身也非常的投入我知道同時新竹這邊的時候也在推一個海淡廠的一個計畫海淡廠這個部分的時候請問目前進度是怎麼樣現在在招標中招標中是不是我們是針對國際招標還是有特地限制國內的廠商國際標那麼技術方式有針對怎麼樣的技術去設限還是完全開放\n基本上我們當然希望說領選出最好的廠商用最新的設備在國際上面在海戰場的處理它分為三個部分包括取水的這個效率的提高能源回收效率的提高還有墨的產生的這個部分還有包括鹵水的這個減少的再利用這個都是一個方向所以在這個技術當中的時候有特別限制用RO或者是沒有這個限制\n我們基本上應該是\n我們看到就是你們提出的報告當中那麼對於整個鹽度的部分\n提出了50、100、200、300公尺的一個牌口的一個距離我想問一下我們的汝水排放的時候我們在模擬鹽度當中的時候是從海面還是海底還是海的中間基本上是以排放口附近的這個背景的鹽度的部分來對比說我們開發之後的一個差別所以是如果是就是我們正常汝水排放從海底排放嘛對不對\n所以我們的模擬的延度是從海底去模擬出來的一個數字那海底會有一個擴散的模式這個我們也一定好因為那我們比方說我們預計比方說我們的排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外\n據我了解是1000到1500這個就是漁民擔心的地方他們覺得其實是不夠的那我在想這個部分我們也許需要再做一些溝通因為之前我們曾經開過一個座談會的時候漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心他們覺得這樣子的一個距離他們覺得是還是會影響他們的一個生計所以\n會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通\n那我想說因為我們看到目前台水提供出來的一個報告那麼以目前整個水的成本賣一度水大概要虧1.8元左右的是這樣的一個數字嗎請問董事長跟委員報告我們去年一度水的成本大概是12點\n水價只有收到11.06,所以是虧了1.85塊。\n對,所以每賣一度水虧1.85元嘛,對不對?所以去年整個虧了43元,大概創了這幾十年來的一個最高的一個紀錄,對不對?那因為現在整個環境問題也日益的嚴重啦,我想請教一下我們經濟部長針對台水這樣子虧損的狀態,你覺得要怎麼樣子來解決台水虧損的情況?\n是 那我們最近會優先來請院裡面來支持在這個相關的漏水的計畫裡面用公建公共政府的這個經費來給他做協助你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎就是用計畫的部分來給政府預算來撥補 對\n政府預算撥補的部分就等於是全民買單的意思那我給部長看兩個數字我們台水的一個收費標準跟整個北水的一個收費標準是不一樣的對不對是 略有不同部長覺得哪一種的方式比較好\n其實沒有比較好不好但是北水目前的這個水價的部分相對台水是有高一點是沒有錯水水高一點可是對於民生用水如果很多的家戶民生用水一個月搞不好就只用20度30度的用水其實並沒有很多比較起來的時候感覺台北水的方式是不是會更合理一點\n這個背景的條件什麼都略有不太一樣那因為台水公司他負責全台北以外的全國的用水包括偏鄉的包括這個各式各樣都不太一樣所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的一個機制\n我們也希望說就是因為當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態的時候就等於是全民在買單那對於特定的用水大戶來說的時候他們就占了這個便宜所以我們也希望因為既然目前北水跟台水的收費標準不一樣我們也希望經濟部這邊能夠好好去檢討一下然後加上現在整個氣候變遷之後整個用水的問題\n議員提到說我們目前也希望透過政府預算的部分來支持來減少漏水的問題我想問一下台水現在目前整個管理的\n自來水管線總長度有多長?跟委員報告大概有7萬6千公里7萬6千公里對不對那我看到一個數字到113年的時候我們希望我們的漏水率降到12%嘛對不對目前可不可以順利達成今年年底我們有信心去年是12.5是今年的目標是12%我們是很努力在能夠有所以你們很有信心今年可以達成\n就是漏水率到12對不對那我看到一個數字是你們預計8年之後希望能夠降到10%有沒有辦法提高更高的一個數字因為台灣目前的一個漏水的一個情況在國際上面其實排名其實是不好的日本他們搞不好只有3%東京大概只有3%那我們整個台灣來說如果說還在12%當作我們的目標10%當作我們的目標我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態\n跟委員報告我們現在120年要降到10%以下那我們有去收集到一些國外的一些城市的一個漏水利那越降越低他投入的經費可能就要越高那這個我們也會在\n謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝文\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.429 --> 00:12.576\n請做詢答主席好,我想請一下王部長我們請王部長\n\n00:19.079 --> 00:41.236\n部長好,其實又快到了那個用水緊張的季節了那今年那個感覺缺水的季節感覺提早一點來那媒體說法是說提早了一個月啦那我想說我們這邊當然是很關心整個全台用水的狀態那因為本席從新竹這個地區來所以特別關心新竹的狀態\n\n00:42.917 --> 01:11.460\n我想說目前整個新竹這邊的一個蓄水、水庫的蓄水大概都低於五成了這感覺也開始有點吃緊那我想請教一下就是以目前就是因為台積電預計2027年就是要正式投產了嘛那也現在如火如荼在走那我們對於整個台積電每天預計要多9.8萬噸的用水有沒有什麼樣子的因應的方式\n\n01:13.622 --> 01:28.556\n除了台積電自己在原來科學園區裏面自建再生水回收之外包括新竹縣市的竹北、克雅這些再生水的供應可以滿足到原來台積電擴廠的需求\n\n01:32.413 --> 01:55.086\n因為我們竹北竹東跟克雅三個再生水廠的時候到大概2027、2028之後大概一天大概可以多大概4.3萬噸啦那其實跟台積電這邊還是有點不太夠那台積電他有承諾說大概在2030年的時候全部的他的使用水會全部用再生水來滿\n\n01:57.286 --> 02:16.249\n我相信他們企業本身也非常的投入我知道同時新竹這邊的時候也在推一個海淡廠的一個計畫海淡廠這個部分的時候請問目前進度是怎麼樣現在在招標中招標中是不是我們是針對國際招標還是有特地限制國內的廠商國際標那麼技術方式有針對怎麼樣的技術去設限還是完全開放\n\n02:25.840 --> 02:54.051\n基本上我們當然希望說領選出最好的廠商用最新的設備在國際上面在海戰場的處理它分為三個部分包括取水的這個效率的提高能源回收效率的提高還有墨的產生的這個部分還有包括鹵水的這個減少的再利用這個都是一個方向所以在這個技術當中的時候有特別限制用RO或者是沒有這個限制\n\n02:55.702 --> 02:56.385\n我們基本上應該是\n\n02:58.524 --> 03:01.086\n我們看到就是你們提出的報告當中那麼對於整個鹽度的部分\n\n03:27.842 --> 03:53.620\n提出了50、100、200、300公尺的一個牌口的一個距離我想問一下我們的汝水排放的時候我們在模擬鹽度當中的時候是從海面還是海底還是海的中間基本上是以排放口附近的這個背景的鹽度的部分來對比說我們開發之後的一個差別所以是如果是就是我們正常汝水排放從海底排放嘛對不對\n\n03:54.921 --> 04:11.817\n所以我們的模擬的延度是從海底去模擬出來的一個數字那海底會有一個擴散的模式這個我們也一定好因為那我們比方說我們預計比方說我們的排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外\n\n04:12.865 --> 04:32.981\n據我了解是1000到1500這個就是漁民擔心的地方他們覺得其實是不夠的那我在想這個部分我們也許需要再做一些溝通因為之前我們曾經開過一個座談會的時候漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心他們覺得這樣子的一個距離他們覺得是還是會影響他們的一個生計所以\n\n04:34.802 --> 04:59.974\n會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通\n\n05:01.155 --> 05:24.326\n那我想說因為我們看到目前台水提供出來的一個報告那麼以目前整個水的成本賣一度水大概要虧1.8元左右的是這樣的一個數字嗎請問董事長跟委員報告我們去年一度水的成本大概是12點\n\n05:26.855 --> 05:28.440\n水價只有收到11.06,所以是虧了1.85塊。\n\n05:35.743 --> 05:54.321\n對,所以每賣一度水虧1.85元嘛,對不對?所以去年整個虧了43元,大概創了這幾十年來的一個最高的一個紀錄,對不對?那因為現在整個環境問題也日益的嚴重啦,我想請教一下我們經濟部長針對台水這樣子虧損的狀態,你覺得要怎麼樣子來解決台水虧損的情況?\n\n05:59.609 --> 06:15.113\n是那我們最近會優先來請院裡面來支持在這個相關的漏水的計畫裡面用公建公共政府的這個經費來給他做協助你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎就是用計畫的部分來給政府預算來撥補對\n\n06:21.415 --> 06:40.067\n政府預算撥補的部分就等於是全民買單的意思那我給部長看兩個數字我們台水的一個收費標準跟整個北水的一個收費標準是不一樣的對不對是略有不同部長覺得哪一種的方式比較好\n\n06:41.890 --> 07:06.519\n其實沒有比較好不好但是北水目前的這個水價的部分相對台水是有高一點是沒有錯水水高一點可是對於民生用水如果很多的家戶民生用水一個月搞不好就只用20度30度的用水其實並沒有很多比較起來的時候感覺台北水的方式是不是會更合理一點\n\n07:08.899 --> 07:29.020\n這個背景的條件什麼都略有不太一樣那因為台水公司他負責全台北以外的全國的用水包括偏鄉的包括這個各式各樣都不太一樣所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的一個機制\n\n07:29.920 --> 07:56.931\n我們也希望說就是因為當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態的時候就等於是全民在買單那對於特定的用水大戶來說的時候他們就占了這個便宜所以我們也希望因為既然目前北水跟台水的收費標準不一樣我們也希望經濟部這邊能夠好好去檢討一下然後加上現在整個氣候變遷之後整個用水的問題\n\n07:57.711 --> 08:04.333\n議員提到說我們目前也希望透過政府預算的部分來支持來減少漏水的問題我想問一下台水現在目前整個管理的\n\n08:26.212 --> 08:52.173\n自來水管線總長度有多長?跟委員報告大概有7萬6千公里7萬6千公里對不對那我看到一個數字到113年的時候我們希望我們的漏水率降到12%嘛對不對目前可不可以順利達成今年年底我們有信心去年是12.5是今年的目標是12%我們是很努力在能夠有所以你們很有信心今年可以達成\n\n08:52.873 --> 09:20.979\n就是漏水率到12對不對那我看到一個數字是你們預計8年之後希望能夠降到10%有沒有辦法提高更高的一個數字因為台灣目前的一個漏水的一個情況在國際上面其實排名其實是不好的日本他們搞不好只有3%東京大概只有3%那我們整個台灣來說如果說還在12%當作我們的目標10%當作我們的目標我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態\n\n09:22.520 --> 09:37.820\n跟委員報告我們現在120年要降到10%以下那我們有去收集到一些國外的一些城市的一個漏水利那越降越低他投入的經費可能就要越高那這個我們也會在\n\n09:38.400 --> 09:38.580\n謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝文\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.429,"end":12.576,"text":"請做詢答主席好,我想請一下王部長我們請王部長"},{"start":19.079,"end":41.236,"text":"部長好,其實又快到了那個用水緊張的季節了那今年那個感覺缺水的季節感覺提早一點來那媒體說法是說提早了一個月啦那我想說我們這邊當然是很關心整個全台用水的狀態那因為本席從新竹這個地區來所以特別關心新竹的狀態"},{"start":42.917,"end":71.46,"text":"我想說目前整個新竹這邊的一個蓄水、水庫的蓄水大概都低於五成了這感覺也開始有點吃緊那我想請教一下就是以目前就是因為台積電預計2027年就是要正式投產了嘛那也現在如火如荼在走那我們對於整個台積電每天預計要多9.8萬噸的用水有沒有什麼樣子的因應的方式"},{"start":73.622,"end":88.556,"text":"除了台積電自己在原來科學園區裏面自建再生水回收之外包括新竹縣市的竹北、克雅這些再生水的供應可以滿足到原來台積電擴廠的需求"},{"start":92.413,"end":115.086,"text":"因為我們竹北竹東跟克雅三個再生水廠的時候到大概2027、2028之後大概一天大概可以多大概4.3萬噸啦那其實跟台積電這邊還是有點不太夠那台積電他有承諾說大概在2030年的時候全部的他的使用水會全部用再生水來滿"},{"start":117.286,"end":136.249,"text":"我相信他們企業本身也非常的投入我知道同時新竹這邊的時候也在推一個海淡廠的一個計畫海淡廠這個部分的時候請問目前進度是怎麼樣現在在招標中招標中是不是我們是針對國際招標還是有特地限制國內的廠商國際標那麼技術方式有針對怎麼樣的技術去設限還是完全開放"},{"start":145.84,"end":174.051,"text":"基本上我們當然希望說領選出最好的廠商用最新的設備在國際上面在海戰場的處理它分為三個部分包括取水的這個效率的提高能源回收效率的提高還有墨的產生的這個部分還有包括鹵水的這個減少的再利用這個都是一個方向所以在這個技術當中的時候有特別限制用RO或者是沒有這個限制"},{"start":175.702,"end":176.385,"text":"我們基本上應該是"},{"start":178.524,"end":181.086,"text":"我們看到就是你們提出的報告當中那麼對於整個鹽度的部分"},{"start":207.842,"end":233.62,"text":"提出了50、100、200、300公尺的一個牌口的一個距離我想問一下我們的汝水排放的時候我們在模擬鹽度當中的時候是從海面還是海底還是海的中間基本上是以排放口附近的這個背景的鹽度的部分來對比說我們開發之後的一個差別所以是如果是就是我們正常汝水排放從海底排放嘛對不對"},{"start":234.921,"end":251.817,"text":"所以我們的模擬的延度是從海底去模擬出來的一個數字那海底會有一個擴散的模式這個我們也一定好因為那我們比方說我們預計比方說我們的排放口會在沿岸的多少公尺以外"},{"start":252.865,"end":272.981,"text":"據我了解是1000到1500這個就是漁民擔心的地方他們覺得其實是不夠的那我在想這個部分我們也許需要再做一些溝通因為之前我們曾經開過一個座談會的時候漁民其實已經反映過他們的擔心他們覺得這樣子的一個距離他們覺得是還是會影響他們的一個生計所以"},{"start":274.802,"end":299.974,"text":"會後我想說再請署長這邊來本辦公室這邊做一個報告好不好因為這個計畫已經通過環境影響相關的衝擊我們都會有備案至少我覺得怎麼樣去跟漁民做一個溝通讓他們不要擔心我覺得是一個很重要的溝通的一個部分如果到現在漁民其實還是非常的惶恐的時候去掛白布條我覺得都不是一個特別好的一個狀態所以我們也希望說後續能夠持續的去做一個溝通"},{"start":301.155,"end":324.326,"text":"那我想說因為我們看到目前台水提供出來的一個報告那麼以目前整個水的成本賣一度水大概要虧1.8元左右的是這樣的一個數字嗎請問董事長跟委員報告我們去年一度水的成本大概是12點"},{"start":326.855,"end":328.44,"text":"水價只有收到11.06,所以是虧了1.85塊。"},{"start":335.743,"end":354.321,"text":"對,所以每賣一度水虧1.85元嘛,對不對?所以去年整個虧了43元,大概創了這幾十年來的一個最高的一個紀錄,對不對?那因為現在整個環境問題也日益的嚴重啦,我想請教一下我們經濟部長針對台水這樣子虧損的狀態,你覺得要怎麼樣子來解決台水虧損的情況?"},{"start":359.609,"end":375.113,"text":"是 那我們最近會優先來請院裡面來支持在這個相關的漏水的計畫裡面用公建公共政府的這個經費來給他做協助你是說用政府預算來撥補嗎就是用計畫的部分來給政府預算來撥補 對"},{"start":381.415,"end":400.067,"text":"政府預算撥補的部分就等於是全民買單的意思那我給部長看兩個數字我們台水的一個收費標準跟整個北水的一個收費標準是不一樣的對不對是 略有不同部長覺得哪一種的方式比較好"},{"start":401.89,"end":426.519,"text":"其實沒有比較好不好但是北水目前的這個水價的部分相對台水是有高一點是沒有錯水水高一點可是對於民生用水如果很多的家戶民生用水一個月搞不好就只用20度30度的用水其實並沒有很多比較起來的時候感覺台北水的方式是不是會更合理一點"},{"start":428.899,"end":449.02,"text":"這個背景的條件什麼都略有不太一樣那因為台水公司他負責全台北以外的全國的用水包括偏鄉的包括這個各式各樣都不太一樣所以在這個部分確實是兩套略有不同的一個機制"},{"start":449.92,"end":476.931,"text":"我們也希望說就是因為當我們用政府預算撥補台水的狀態的時候就等於是全民在買單那對於特定的用水大戶來說的時候他們就占了這個便宜所以我們也希望因為既然目前北水跟台水的收費標準不一樣我們也希望經濟部這邊能夠好好去檢討一下然後加上現在整個氣候變遷之後整個用水的問題"},{"start":477.711,"end":484.333,"text":"議員提到說我們目前也希望透過政府預算的部分來支持來減少漏水的問題我想問一下台水現在目前整個管理的"},{"start":506.212,"end":532.173,"text":"自來水管線總長度有多長?跟委員報告大概有7萬6千公里7萬6千公里對不對那我看到一個數字到113年的時候我們希望我們的漏水率降到12%嘛對不對目前可不可以順利達成今年年底我們有信心去年是12.5是今年的目標是12%我們是很努力在能夠有所以你們很有信心今年可以達成"},{"start":532.873,"end":560.979,"text":"就是漏水率到12對不對那我看到一個數字是你們預計8年之後希望能夠降到10%有沒有辦法提高更高的一個數字因為台灣目前的一個漏水的一個情況在國際上面其實排名其實是不好的日本他們搞不好只有3%東京大概只有3%那我們整個台灣來說如果說還在12%當作我們的目標10%當作我們的目標我覺得可能是不太及格的一個狀態"},{"start":562.52,"end":577.82,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在120年要降到10%以下那我們有去收集到一些國外的一些城市的一個漏水利那越降越低他投入的經費可能就要越高那這個我們也會在"},{"start":578.4,"end":578.58,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝文"}]}}}}